Guild Wars 2

No Monkey King No Buy HOT

Dahkeus.8243:

Kocoff.7582:

Rain.9213:

Kocoff.7582:

Rain.9213:

Doggie.3184:

Kocoff.7582:

ALSO for those who, like me, are seriously considering using this spec as main spec….

May I suggest this appetizer: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_Evasion

What do you think? or is it too underwhelming?

I’m too obsessed with Traveler runes. gottagofast

If you pick up Runes of Evasion+Dash dodge, you will get 11 seconds of swiftness on a dodge roll, plus Fury plus cripple an enemy every 10 seconds AND 175 Ferocity.

So that’s practically permanent swiftness if you’re using Thrill of the Crime.

You also have other swiftness rune options like Rune of the Pack and Centaur that increase your damage and also give you lots of swiftness. Save those Traveler runes for Necromancer or Mesmer, dude!

That’s a good a point. I would use Runes of Evasion to replace Impairing Daggers, in case i need to chase. Bound is too good to pass mate. especially WvW. The choices really compete against each other and they made good job.

I just wish, Escapist’s Absolution would change tiers or just simply be a minor.

Bound is good if you’re running off hand Pistol or Staff. I really don’t see it doing much for off hand dagger other than some nice dodge damage but it could potentially reveal you if you’re in stealth and you dodge to avoid an incoming hit. Plus you have to dodge into an enemy if you wanna hit them and you usually wanna evade away from an enemy.

That’s right. It could completely mess you up.

I think this right here will keep S/P from being as awesome as some people think it will be. Sure, you get stealth from offhand + dodge, but if you SR and then try to dodge a knockback, you’re likely to reveal yourself from the damage.

Yep. The 3 dodge traits will not work with SR.

Damage on dodge will reveal. Dash will reveal b/c the distance is further than the radius of RF.

Also if you are in stealth, damage on dodge will reveal so you either reveal or eat w/e damage/cc.

You can take Dash but you will probably have to give up SR, one of our best utility.

ronpierce.2760:

Gabriell.4856:

ronpierce.2760:

Gabriell.4856:

ronpierce.2760:

I love how all those silly people were all “Eles are fine, it’s just a l2p issue” and as a result of not tuning them down, 4 and 5 ele teams have won tournaments, had rules shaped around them, some of the biggest lash backs that I’ve seen in a long time, and unlike Turrets, they plague the late game and have perfectly acceptable mobility.

Blows my mind people can be so selfish. And shame on ANet with this one. Dhuumfire was nerfed in like two days and wasn’t half the balance problem Elementalists are causing.

Ele’s are fine but it’s not a l2p issue. Don’t blame the class when an amulet gives 700/920 more stats than other amulets. To this day, I don’t understand why each amulet doesn’t have the total amount of stats. Seems like a clear balancing choice to me.

Again with the silly amulet argument. You’re wrong. Go play Celestial on a thief or whatever if you think it’s the amulet. It’s class mechanics that makes ele so powerful, not the amulet. It has bonus stats because you have to when you stretch stats so thin. Little do people realize before the class power creep, Celestial was never used and had to get buffed 10%, and still wasn’t used frequently until Ele and Warrior was buffed to be able to take advantage of the mix of stats, but it still had to do with the class. Notice how Shoutbow isn’t a thing anymore after nerfing the base heal?

It’s not an amulet problem or everyone would use it. It’s the class.

I change my post a bit. Its the amulet plus might stacking. If you took away might stacking, cele ele will hit like wet noodles. Celestrial thief does work but not in capture mode…

It works, but it’s not a “problem”. That’s pretty much how a lot of options should be. A good majority of the time, Celestial is used because we have such poor control over our stats. Killing Celestial would screw over a lot more than fix a secluded issue.

Ele have very notable balance issues, no need to mess up other things to fix the single outlier.

It’s just my opinion but I rather have them remove cele amulet. I don’t think any class should be able to do damage/tank/condi/control in the same build and cele enables it in some builds. This goes for cele necro and the old cele engi, too. Damage/condi/control/support pick one or two but you can’t have it all.

ronpierce.2760:

Gabriell.4856:

ronpierce.2760:

I love how all those silly people were all “Eles are fine, it’s just a l2p issue” and as a result of not tuning them down, 4 and 5 ele teams have won tournaments, had rules shaped around them, some of the biggest lash backs that I’ve seen in a long time, and unlike Turrets, they plague the late game and have perfectly acceptable mobility.

Blows my mind people can be so selfish. And shame on ANet with this one. Dhuumfire was nerfed in like two days and wasn’t half the balance problem Elementalists are causing.

Ele’s are fine but it’s not a l2p issue. Don’t blame the class when an amulet gives 700/920 more stats than other amulets. To this day, I don’t understand why each amulet doesn’t have the total amount of stats. Seems like a clear balancing choice to me.

Again with the silly amulet argument. You’re wrong. Go play Celestial on a thief or whatever if you think it’s the amulet. It’s class mechanics that makes ele so powerful, not the amulet. It has bonus stats because you have to when you stretch stats so thin. Little do people realize before the class power creep, Celestial was never used and had to get buffed 10%, and still wasn’t used frequently until Ele and Warrior was buffed to be able to take advantage of the mix of stats, but it still had to do with the class. Notice how Shoutbow isn’t a thing anymore after nerfing the base heal?

It’s not an amulet problem or everyone would use it. It’s the class.

I change my post a bit. Its the amulet plus might stacking. If you took away might stacking, cele ele will hit like wet noodles. Celestrial thief does work but not in capture mode…

Ele’s aren’t fine but it’s not a l2p issue. Don’t blame the class when an amulet gives 700/920 more stats than other amulets. That and might stacking. To this day, I don’t understand why each amulet doesn’t have the total amount of stats. Seems like a clear balancing choice to me.

FrownyClown.8402:

Well-time burst. If they play staff they will be most vulnerable when trying to attack you. Its the same with any weapon set they use really. If they go full defensive mode I imagine it would be a bit hard to get them, but 1v1 on point should make for a fun fight.

Staff will be trash. S/D and D/P will be the problem…

Kocoff.7582:

Gabriell.4856:

Kocoff.7582:

Gabriell.4856:

Loki.8793:

I don’t see why people are assuming your dodge will reveal you if it hit someone, heartseeker does the same thing and doesn’t reveal you if it hits.

I only bring the question of s/p being meta because it has problems with survivability. It doesn’t have built in evades, so it needs shadow arts or acrobatics to survive. But with the nerf acrobatics and no inherent stealth on the set, you die really fast and makes the set really gimmicky.

Now, with daredevil, we have the ability to stealth and have a third endurance bar, which could solve the survivability problems with s/p. If it can survive, it can offer potentially more than d/p. It has an engager, just like d/p 3, as well as a condi clear. It cleaves and does weakness on auto. Pistolwhip does about as much as backstab, only is more spammable, hits 3 people, and interrupts often (which triggers pulminary impact for more damage).

Honestly, it does everything d/p does only with less blinds and more weakness, condi clear, and interrupts.

You will probably be able to stealth via P#5 then dodge even if you hit someone as long as you’re not in stealth. The problem is, what the hell are you going to do while in stealth when you need to dodge? Very clunky.

It is a little clunky, but we can see stealth as a Daredevil stealth gives you access to precious Knock down. Clunky but still worth it imo.

And how are you going to stealth with Staff w/o SA or utilties? He’s talking about x/P which doesnt have a KD.

well you use x/P #5, dodge a few times, switch to staff . Did I miss something here?

LOL ok…..

Could of just used d/p then switch to staff but w/e.

Kocoff.7582:

Gabriell.4856:

Loki.8793:

I don’t see why people are assuming your dodge will reveal you if it hit someone, heartseeker does the same thing and doesn’t reveal you if it hits.

I only bring the question of s/p being meta because it has problems with survivability. It doesn’t have built in evades, so it needs shadow arts or acrobatics to survive. But with the nerf acrobatics and no inherent stealth on the set, you die really fast and makes the set really gimmicky.

Now, with daredevil, we have the ability to stealth and have a third endurance bar, which could solve the survivability problems with s/p. If it can survive, it can offer potentially more than d/p. It has an engager, just like d/p 3, as well as a condi clear. It cleaves and does weakness on auto. Pistolwhip does about as much as backstab, only is more spammable, hits 3 people, and interrupts often (which triggers pulminary impact for more damage).

Honestly, it does everything d/p does only with less blinds and more weakness, condi clear, and interrupts.

You will probably be able to stealth via P#5 then dodge even if you hit someone as long as you’re not in stealth. The problem is, what the hell are you going to do while in stealth when you need to dodge? Very clunky.

It is a little clunky, but we can see stealth as a Daredevil stealth gives you access to precious Knock down. Clunky but still worth it imo.

And how are you going to stealth with Staff w/o SA or utilties? He’s talking about x/P which doesnt have a KD.

Loki.8793:

I don’t see why people are assuming your dodge will reveal you if it hit someone, heartseeker does the same thing and doesn’t reveal you if it hits.

I only bring the question of s/p being meta because it has problems with survivability. It doesn’t have built in evades, so it needs shadow arts or acrobatics to survive. But with the nerf acrobatics and no inherent stealth on the set, you die really fast and makes the set really gimmicky.

Now, with daredevil, we have the ability to stealth and have a third endurance bar, which could solve the survivability problems with s/p. If it can survive, it can offer potentially more than d/p. It has an engager, just like d/p 3, as well as a condi clear. It cleaves and does weakness on auto. Pistolwhip does about as much as backstab, only is more spammable, hits 3 people, and interrupts often (which triggers pulminary impact for more damage).

Honestly, it does everything d/p does only with less blinds and more weakness, condi clear, and interrupts.

You will probably be able to stealth via P#5 then dodge even if you hit someone as long as you’re not in stealth. The problem is, what the hell are you going to do while in stealth when you need to dodge? Very clunky.

Thaddeus.4891:

Gabriell.4856:

People will use the new dodge and test it out. Will be fun until they unintentionally reveal themselves by dodging.

You going to sit in Shadow Refuge and eat all that aoe/cleave damage w/o dodging? GG

True, but it’s not like this happen a lot. I mean, using your SR and dodging in it, that’s the worst case scenario when you kittened up or got yourself into an bad fight. You usually want to keep your SR to rez your team.

Are you seriously going to argue that thieve don’t use SR often? Really?

Could do better

People will use the new dodge and test it out. Will be fun until they unintentionally reveal themselves by dodging.

You going to sit in Shadow Refuge and eat all that aoe/cleave damage w/o dodging? GG

X/P will not work with the new leap dodge. Well, it will work but it will be clunky and counter productive.

I’m not sure why people think lead dodge is the next best thing since sliced bread. That trait is actually terrible.

Linfang.1087:

the only downfall is the signet restores 100 endurance when we will have 150. i want perma faceroll :\

Assuming you have vigor:

withdraw, Staff 3, dodge, staff 3, dodge, staff 3, dodge, weaponswap to 2nd staff, staff 3, dodge, staff 3, dodge, staff 3, dodge, roll for init, staff 3, dodge, SoA, staff 3, dodge, staff 3, dodge……..

Not sure how long to you keep going but you should have enough evade for a good bit if you spec for trolling. You don’t have to do it back to back evade just time it right and build in some safe idle time in between dodges/staff3.

Eurantien.4632:

Bounding Dodger: [&CP8HAAA=] / http://i.imgur.com/gyg3Hi5.png

3 base dodges
+ https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Agility
+ https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hard_to_Catch

= 8 dodges
= 9.12k base damage.

I don’t want to die to dodge rolls.

Imagine if all of those crit. Lol. 21K damage from dodge spam.

Gray.9041:

stof.9341:

Gray.9041:

but other classes don’t give up a trait for it – they get it in their minor.

All the minor traits that apply to dodge either get a very small benefit or a rather long cooldown on it.

I mean their class mechanics.

Chronomancer’s Continuum Split
Dragonhunter’s New Virtues
Reaper’s Reaper Shroud
Tempest’s Overloads
Herald’s Facet of Nature
Berserker’s New Burst Skills

all of these are available to them through the first minor trait. compare this to an extra 50 endurance… it’s not exactly comparable…

(also, before you say an extra 50 endurance is a big thing, we used to get a trait which refilled 20 or 30 endurance on dodge roll – effectively giving us an extra 50 odd endurance. so we get an old trait, while other classes get stuff like Reaper Shroud or Continuum Split…)

What he said.

Look guys/gals. We arent being negative. We are pointing out flaws and we feel like the thief was short changed by gating it behind GM traits. We’re making this point so that we can get more out of this elite spec. We’re are not saying this is doom and gloom.

For example suggestion.
Add F3, F4, F5 each for the new dodge. They have high CD so you’re locked into a dodge type for a good bit. (We don’t want to be Ele’s).

Then add 3 new GM traits to DD.

Kyori.6091:

Gabriell.4856:

Kyori.6091:

Id consider the dodge GMs a new mechanic.

Where does it say specis have to specificly add new stuff to the class mechanic? Im guessing you are on about steal here?

DD looks really good, Dodge leap finisher. lots of the skills look really useful too.

Im not too bothered about not gettin a new version of steal or so.

They said:

Anet:
“Finally, we’re here. When we talked about rangers becoming druids and necromancers with greatswords, those were examples of what we call elite specializations. These are the brand-new level-80 specializations that will begin to introduce new weapons, MECHANICS, skills, and traits to existing professions in Heart of Thorns.”

Effects on dodge isn’t new to thief nor is being able to dodge more than 2 times in a row….

As of now, thief is the only class that has to spec to get a “new” mechanic. Other classes pick Elite spec and they get the new mechanic w/o having to select a trait for it.

You could say that, it says mechanic tho not specificly class mechanic. Or that the mechanic has to be new to the game.

Sure there are alot of dodge abilities already, but a leap finisher, a long range dash. Should and is a “new mechanic”.

You could also argue being able to finish a downstate person with a skill is a new mechanic too.

It really depends on how you look at it. I dont get the negativity, this speci seems to have alot of good stuff in it.

I’m not being negative. Just offering a different opinion.

“Sure there are alot of dodge abilities already, but a leap finisher, a long range dash. Should and is a “new mechanic”.

Are you saying the GM traits is our new mechanic? If so, why is it being gated by GM traits?

tobascodagama.2961:

Gray.9041:

but other classes don’t give up a trait for it – they get it in their minor.

Nobody else gets an additional 50 Endurance from a minor trait. Or any other trait.

He was talking about the new mechanic which some say it is the effect on dodge.

Our “new” mechanic is gated behind GM traits.

Kyori.6091:

Id consider the dodge GMs a new mechanic.

Where does it say specis have to specificly add new stuff to the class mechanic? Im guessing you are on about steal here?

DD looks really good, Dodge leap finisher. lots of the skills look really useful too.

Im not too bothered about not gettin a new version of steal or so.

They said:

Anet:
“Finally, we’re here. When we talked about rangers becoming druids and necromancers with greatswords, those were examples of what we call elite specializations. These are the brand-new level-80 specializations that will begin to introduce new weapons, MECHANICS, skills, and traits to existing professions in Heart of Thorns.”

Effects on dodge isn’t new to thief nor is being able to dodge more than 2 times in a row….

As of now, thief is the only class that has to spec to get a “new” mechanic. Other classes pick Elite spec and they get the new mechanic w/o having to select a trait for it.

Zero Day.2594:

Nivik.2961:

This game is indeed amazing, if you don’t like it, go lvl up to 110 with WoW.

love it.

Thieves Guild for life boys,

and to guys out there like yolo who I know have been around forever and have a lot of experience and love for this class, I guarentee youre gonna be able to theory craft some crazy stuff with these new specs so that we can all get back to what we love
SMASHING MESMERS hahaha

You’re missing the point a bit if you think that they can’t come up with “crazy” stuff…

You may not be aware of this but, they took something from a box we once had. The box had a label “Acrobatics” on it, they’ve from time to time been taking stuff out of it, and the last time they took something out of it it was the last thing left in the box that made we even reach for it. They then, hoping for newcomers to not read into the past, put what they’ve taken into another box, labeled it as “DareDevil”, and say it’s a brand new thing… While aesthetically, the new box looks different, when you start using the stuff inside it, those that were aware of the old box will realize how fimiliar it is and question why stuff like these hasn’t appeared in the old one, the newcomers will let it slide, since our “old” box to them is a recent one and as far as they’re concerned it was always half empty.

I remember the “old” box. I don’t blame the young thieves that are growing up. They just don’t know any better.

Anet:
“Finally, we’re here. When we talked about rangers becoming druids and necromancers with greatswords, those were examples of what we call elite specializations. These are the brand-new level-80 specializations that will begin to introduce new weapons, MECHANICS, skills, and traits to existing professions in Heart of Thorns.”

I don’t think nerfing Feline Grace and then giving it back is a “new” mechanic. I hope I am wrong but it seems like we will be the only class that won’t get a new mechanic.

stof.9341:

Can we please not make loads of long angry posts based on non tweaked damage coefficients on datamined not yeat announced skill tooltips?

Let me remind everyone of stuff that happens between BWE for example :

Rapid Swipe: Increased the damage by 30%.
Forceful Bash: Increased the damage by 36%.
Rejuvenating Assault: Increased the healing-power scaling by 50%.
Punishing Sweep: Increased the damage by 33%.
Debilitating Slam: Increased the damage by 100%.
Renewing Wave: Increased the healing-power scaling by 30%.
Surge of the Mists: Increased the damage by 11%.

All mediem armor classes and warrior already missed one opportunity to test and ask for adjustments. We need to get a head start on this.

PopeUrban.2578:

Mrbig.8019:

PopeUrban.2578:

AA – It’s built more for making pve viable with the spec as it does a 3 sec weakness.

Stealth attack – The fact that the weapon doesn’t have built in stealth is probably why they made it so powerful (2 sec KD stealth opener would be broken if you could chain stealth like */d)

Weakening charge – It’s actually death blossom with weakness and direct damage in stead of bleed/evade. Makes the weapon viable to use with SoM as a white damage weapon.

Debilitating Arc – Breaks immob, allowing you greater flexibility in util choices.

Dust Strike – emergency blind if you’re out of end, same cost as Debilitating Arc so probably intended to be a situational/tactical choice between the two

Vault – Probably intended more as a gap closer/support trait proc opener for team fights. Seems a little expensive for what it does. Leap finisher does allow it to set up as a stealth combo so could have interesting team play interactions with the stealth attack?

Channeled Vigor – Any way you slice it it’s a lame heal. If you’re so low on end you need to use it, you’re not in a position where using it is actually safe. Reduce the healing ratio and give it something else. Pulsing blind or projectile reflect or something, IDK.

Reflexive strike – Traited, it’s an 8s recharge stun break as well as a block/reflexive knockdown. Looks like a really solid overall defense panic button.

Fist flurry – Super situational, but it’s unblockable, be a good CC follow up against anybody that runs passive block. Might be mechanically interesting if you can hold palm strike for a while. Good way to force the target to blow a dodge so you can exploit your advantage of extra dodges maybe?

Distracting Dagger – Looks intended for breaking heals to secure kills.

Impairing daggers – Slow makes it easier to exploit interrupt traits/gear and time dodges. Seems better as an opener than a gap closer.

Elite – Solid finisher. Means you don’t have to worry about stomping if you start the chain at the end of the opponent’s HP bar. If the chain times like autoattacks you could down the target with hit 1, miss hit 2 due to downed knockback, blind, etc, and still have time to run in and do hit 3 and finish them. Great roamer/skirmisher elite to full-kill targets and GTFO fast.

Overall staff seems like it’s got good bones, but testing needs to be done on those damage values they might be a little low, or they might be perfect when combined with the traits as a lesser damage/more durable melee set. It’s nice to see that the utilities/elite synergize well with existing sets and add real options as alternatives to deception utils.

It’s definately a better PvE set for non-condi builds just on virtue of spamming 2 and built in mobility, but it might need some cost/damage tweaks to be attractive for pvp.

Staff is garbage.

heal is garbage.

Some U-skills are really solid and powerful, elite is very good.

Tbh i don’t see staff replacing nor primary sets ( D/X, S/X) neither sbow, mostly cuz it’s nor more powerful than current sets neither has more tactical uses ( no poison, bad auto, slow skills and backward evade LOL).

Even if some skills damage are very high, their utility is terrible ( D/P has blinds and dazes and stealth combos, S/D has stealth, dazes and inf strike, forward evade which can be also used backward) while staff has nothing aside some combo finishers u can’t combo with cuz u have no fields LOL.

it may seem very cool at first sight but damage isn’t everything, not even in PvE, mind it in PvP where staff will be garbage if released this way.

The idea behind it is very cool, but weap skills needs to be better than this.

I can see S/D, S/P and D/P being very strong with daredevil elite spec instead of shadow arts/acro and 3rd u-skill and elite as physicals.

TBH it occurs to me that they may have designed it as a PvE weapon considering that the utils and elite are all very PvP oriented, and the trait line seems geared to go either way. Like, staff is to thieves what GS is to warriors?

If for a second the Warrior GS don’t have CD but uses Init, GS is a lot better than staff.

Suggestion:

AA – They need to increase the AA damage (Dagger AA does 40% more damage) and reduce the cast time on 3rd chain to 3/4 sec. Looking at the 3rd chain, it looks like a mini Guardian Whirling Wrath w/o the damage 1.3/4 ish coef vs guardian 2.8 coef. The guardian WW is awesome since they have field on their weapon to combo with. Staff doesn’t.

Stealth Attack – As it is currently, we cannot gain stealth via weaponskills. Add smoke field to Dust Strike. Reduce Stealth Attack KD duration to 1 sec.

Weakening Charge – Make it an evade and it will be a solid skill

Debilitating Arc – No complaint

Dust Strike – This doesn’t seem to be AOE but COE. Got to see it in action. If it is COE, suggest they make it smoke field so we can combo.

Vault – Can combo with Dust Strike to gain stealth. Reduce cast time to 3/4.

PopeUrban.2578:

AA – It’s built more for making pve viable with the spec as it does a 3 sec weakness.

Stealth attack – The fact that the weapon doesn’t have built in stealth is probably why they made it so powerful (2 sec KD stealth opener would be broken if you could chain stealth like */d)

Weakening charge – It’s actually death blossom with weakness and direct damage in stead of bleed/evade. Makes the weapon viable to use with SoM as a white damage weapon.

Debilitating Arc – Breaks immob, allowing you greater flexibility in util choices.

Dust Strike – emergency blind if you’re out of end, same cost as Debilitating Arc so probably intended to be a situational/tactical choice between the two

Vault – Probably intended more as a gap closer/support trait proc opener for team fights. Seems a little expensive for what it does. Leap finisher does allow it to set up as a stealth combo so could have interesting team play interactions with the stealth attack?

Channeled Vigor – Any way you slice it it’s a lame heal. If you’re so low on end you need to use it, you’re not in a position where using it is actually safe. Reduce the healing ratio and give it something else. Pulsing blind or projectile reflect or something, IDK.

Reflexive strike – Traited, it’s an 8s recharge stun break as well as a block/reflexive knockdown. Looks like a really solid overall defense panic button.

Fist flurry – Super situational, but it’s unblockable, be a good CC follow up against anybody that runs passive block. Might be mechanically interesting if you can hold palm strike for a while. Good way to force the target to blow a dodge so you can exploit your advantage of extra dodges maybe?

Distracting Dagger – Looks intended for breaking heals to secure kills.

Impairing daggers – Slow makes it easier to exploit interrupt traits/gear and time dodges. Seems better as an opener than a gap closer.

Elite – Solid finisher. Means you don’t have to worry about stomping if you start the chain at the end of the opponent’s HP bar. If the chain times like autoattacks you could down the target with hit 1, miss hit 2 due to downed knockback, blind, etc, and still have time to run in and do hit 3 and finish them. Great roamer/skirmisher elite to full-kill targets and GTFO fast.

Overall staff seems like it’s got good bones, but testing needs to be done on those damage values they might be a little low, or they might be perfect when combined with the traits as a lesser damage/more durable melee set. It’s nice to see that the utilities/elite synergize well with existing sets and add real options as alternatives to deception utils.

It’s definately a better PvE set for non-condi builds just on virtue of spamming 2 and built in mobility, but it might need some cost/damage tweaks to be attractive for pvp.

Regarding the elite its on a 40 sec CD meaing you get one attempt at it. I’m assuming if you miss the chain will end.

MarauderShields.6830:

Gabriell.4856:

Please rename it to “Five Finger Heart Exploding Technique”.

Also, allow it to crit.

That is all. Thanks.

+1.
Also, add the functionality that after being hit and walks more than five steps, the target instantly dies.

But they also have to explode like after getting hit by the Fist of the North Star.

How about they instantl die after taking more than five steps then explode like the necro minion?

Killyox.3950:

@up, 2,25s channel is not 3s :P Will almost for sure be reduced to 1,5-1,75s after BWE
Distracting dagger is amazing. 1s load, 3 uses with instant use and increase cd by 10s + interrupt. That’s devastating if you interrupt a heal. This will be felt on all heals or burst skills with low cd. 100Blades? here sir, have +10s CD!
Finishing Blow is still better because you are not the premiere target for CC due to not being in stomping animation. It’s also harder to get rid of you and you can hit someone else with 2 hits and switch target for the last hit in chain on a downed target. If you also happen to down someone with preceding strike then next strike you instantly finish them before anyone can help them.

100% sure that healing is for all pulses together and not per pulse. That’s still good. Only 20s CD and it gives 25% endurance per pulse for a total of 75% and Elite Spec will have 3 dodge bardz so basically a bit over 2 bars of dodge on every heal.

There’s a lot of defense in dodges he gets (active def) + Elite Spec has a lot of access to knockdowns and such which can be considered offensive and defensive so quite versatile.

There are still traits to see. Stay cool and be patient.

Lol at interrupting heal. In higher lvl play, what heal will you be interrupting? Engi? Ele? Guardian? At most, maybe a necro heal.

Don’t get me wrong. Looks cool and I will definitely play it but I feel like as time goes by thief will use DD with other weaponset.

Here’s my opinion so far:

AA – Very lack luster and the 3rd chain is 1 sec long cast time. WTF?
Stealth Attack – Awesome. But how are you going to stealth? LoL!
Weakening Charge – Basically, it is the warrior Whirling Attacking w/o the evade or damage. Looks cool.
Debilitating Arc – They couldn’t think of anything else so this is basically Disabling Shot but it is pretty good.
Dust Strike – Very situational
Vault – Meh. I’m assuming there will be an animation with this since it says “1” sec cast time. The enemy will see where you port. This will never replace the instant 900 range SB 5.

Channeled Vigor – LOL! Ether renew. I love to interrupt those ele’s that use it. Poor design a thief is suppose to be mobile and quick yet they want use to channel a heal for almost 3 secs?

Reflexive Strike – Meh. 1 sec block?
Fist Flurry – Very situational. Its 1.25 channel and all kittens must land. I can see using this after a CC but normally your attack will be block/invul/miss/dodge etc so you won’t get the full effect of this skill.
Distracting Dagger – Basically a mantra with power block. They only reason it works for Mesmer is because of the stun + CI. Meh.
Impairing Daggers – Have you guys tried to use dancing dagger (D#4) at max range? Lolz miss, obstruct, etc. GL guys

Elite – It looks like a chain. Unless your first or second attack down the target, 3rd chain is useless. The whole chain takes longer then a regular stomp.

My prediction will be that Staff will be cool at first but it is trash. DD will be better when paired with other weapons. The utilities competes with Deceptions and Signet and it just doesn’t stack up well. Are you going to give up Shadow Step and Shadow Refuge? I highly doubt it. That leaves 1 utility slot open and I rather have more stealth or IS or SoA.

arenta.2953:

Gabriell.4856:

arenta.2953:

no crit

crit is theif, with blades and sharp stuff

not a blunt staff wacking things in solid metal armor.

But but the heart explode and does critical damage!!!

does it?

how do you hit the heart?
you have a staff. (not a spear. )

at most your making the heart skip a beat or 2. but your not stabbing your staff through solid armor into the chest.

thats heartseeker. which is a thief skill. not daredevil.

if you want high dmg crits. go for theif

if you want high evasion with condition removal. but low dmg. go daredevil.

hence the “new professon”

Uh? So a thief isn’t a daredevil or a daredevil isn’t a thief.

Maybe I’m in roleplaying land. Get me out!

arenta.2953:

no crit

crit is theif, with blades and sharp stuff

not a blunt staff wacking things in solid metal armor.

But but the heart explode and does critical damage!!!

Please rename it to “Five Finger Heart Exploding Technique”.

Also, allow it to crit.

That is all. Thanks.

Cynz.9437:

ronpierce.2760:

Cynz.9437:

it’s a broom, you fools… the spec is called “Janitor”

Photoshop or it didn’t happen.

datamined by shaman :P

jk beware of my drawing skills

The background fits the “Janitor” quite well. Look at all that dust!

samy.3295:

como uma classe assassina vira uma classe monge?quando poderia ser uma classe snyper com um rifle, a classe assassina vai ser a unica classe que nao tera uma specializaçao relacionada a sua classe base, triste muito triste,perdi todo o meu trabalho para fazer um the predador.

Translation – I super excited for Staff!

I wonder what the stealth attack will be. Hoping for “surpise your target by sticking a staff up their A@@.”

GragorR.9768:

So we can finally be double rainbow all the way, dreamer / bifrost BB

They should just remain the elite to Double Rainbow.

Stinja.9612:

inb4 it ends up being garbage, they never give us thieves nice toys.

I’m getting blueballs. Can’t wait until Friday. It’s going to be “burst” or “bust” but either way, the boys are going to be hurting.

GragorR.9768:

So we can finally be double rainbow all the way, dreamer / bifrost BB

May our rainbow powers combine!

Linfang.1087:

Maybe the Kasmeer staff on sale this week was a hint to us Thieves to buy the most ridiculous looking melee staff in game.

Sorry my friend. That would be the Bifrost. Hitting players with rainbow is kitten.! lol

ronpierce.2760:

Here we go, staff thief this week. Ready yourself for better melee-staying power! :P

They said “distraction.”

Let’s speculate. Shadow clones?

apharma.3741:

Gabriell.4856:

Weaker burst…maybe that’s the whole point of this thread. Thief burst is no where near what it used to be.

The thief is suppose to be the MASTER of single target burst and it has lost that title to other classes..

Yes and no. A thief has the biggest single hit, no ifs, no buts. A Mesmer with a full 4 hit 3 clone mind wrack with mirror blade first will hit way harder but then you need 2 clones in me ee range to begin with and for them not to die.

Even a 2 hit 1 clone mirror blade shatter will hit harder (only about 1k more if thief picks up executioner and gets the executioner bonus) however most of that damage is on the mind wrack and so are most of the damage mods. In fact if you are using a skill when mind wrack hits the burst ends up the same as an executioner thief.

The thread is here to highlight how close they actually are and what a difference executioner makes to backstab (1.3k damage). I don’t have much info on how much damage mug does, the wiki has no coefficient so can only run it off what I get on a light target golem. Additionally thief damage mods affect all attacks, Mesmer only has a MW modifier and fragility which has its own problems.

I stopped reading at thief has the highest single hit no if or but.

Kill shot damage coef is 3.25 vs thief bs of 2.4.

Maybe you forgot about Churning Earth or Fire Grab?

/shrug

Weaker burst…maybe that’s the whole point of this thread. Thief burst is no where near what it used to be.

The thief is suppose to be the MASTER of single target burst and it has lost that title to other classes..

Here’s my guess.

Dev – Dare to play thief?

Player – Yes!

Dev – Then I’ll just have to nerf it some more.

Necrotize.2974:

It would just remove counterplay and screw over anyone hoping to deal meaningful damage with specific conditions. If the condition user can manage to apply enough cover conditions to stop you cleansing their burst, why should they be punished with next to no dps because you clicked a cleanse skill too late? That’s the whole point of cover conditions, to punish people who don’t cleanse in time. And if people could choose which conditions were prioritized, it’d obviously be burns at the top with Immob and maybe Torment/Confusion up there. Condition and boon removal functions in a specific way that rewards active playstyle and fast actions.

That type of change would just reward sloppy play and punish people who try to use cover conditions/protect their damage by not only removing their main source of damage, but also putting the source on cd for next to no impact.

What counter play? Like all top players, they’re aren’t going to cleanse 1 or 2 stack of burning. There’s a threshold before an intelligent cleanse but sometimes the amount of conditions that can cover before the cleanse happens too quick.

But at the end of the day, direct burst and condi burst are two different animals. A power burst put almost all there points in power/prec/fer and and condi build use condi, tough, vit/prec. You really can’t compare the two because there are so many factors.

But when condi can burst damage is almost as close to pure power build while retaining defensive mechanism, there’s a problem. How to fix it? I don’t know since it has been going on for years and the dev don’t know how to deal with it. I don’t believe for a sec they know how to deal with it. Maybe when the game shuts down. I’m just waiting for a better game that I like that has pvp then I’m going to leave this POS game.

panda the chop chop.4712:

I almost never write in forums unless its to recruit, but this"fire op omg" needs to stop!
I’ll be blunt and honest I’ve never had more than around 9 stacks of burning…

I don’t understand how you guys allow yourself to be hit for so much all the time ?!

do you not know how to kite?
do you not know how to evade?
do you not know how to interupt skills?
do you not know how to cc
do you not know how to stealth
do you not know how to spike that person down first ?
do you not know how to condi clear?

Cool your in a 5v5 and its chaotic for you and your overwhelmed and your burning stacks go high, but that’s the issue your not experienced enough to do said above..

practice!practice!practice!practice!practice!practice!practice!practice!practice!practice!
Stop complaining and Play every class and learn how to counter everything, the times for each cool-down, prioritize skills, counters,

This is why no one “at the high level” goes on these forums because its full of people who complain literally subconsciously about their own skill level.

accept the fact you need practice, accept the fact you need room to grow and counter each play, each rotation, each player.

Fire isn’t the issue, it’s you.

“This is why no one “at the high level” goes on these forums because its full of people who complain literally subconsciously about their own skill level.”

Because at the high level they use 2 ele to abuse condi damage therefore they will not QQ.

Owned. /thread

jheryn.8390:

GROAN. Who really cares when a class gets revealed? Does it ultimately matter? One class has to be first and one has to be last. Why look for a conspiracy?

These kinds of threads are dumb but inevitable. If Warrior or Ele were last we would have conspiracy threads like, “Ele and Warrior not revealed until last because they are are going to nerf the big damage classes.”

It does to me when you look at their balancing cycle which is 6 months for major updates. It may be fine with you but for others 6 months is a bit too long to wait.

CureForLiving.5360:

penelopehannibal.8947:

Saving the best for last.

That’s the spirit!

Kaiden Valor.7163:

On the plus side now we’re guaranteed that the next reveal will be one of the medium classes.

Next reveal… HoT Quaggan lore :P

CandyHearts.6025:

“Are we still a thing?” xD

Nope. They be deleting all medium armor wearers for HoT :P

No they didn’t! ANet revealed their 10 year trench-coat skin development roadmap and all the medium classes decided to re-roll.

CrimsonDX.4821:

Luckily I like my ranger as she is, so if the druid completely blows it won’t be that terrible a thing for me.

Well Elites aren’t suppose to be must-have or outright improvements on the base-class.

Gabriell.4856:

ALL medium armor classes already missed one opportunity to test the elite spec to provide feedback. Light armor classes will receive twice the amount of testing. Sorry, that is not fair in my opinion.

You’re assuming that they won’t still be balancing elites months after HoT drops. The testing we get to do now is important, sure, but I don’t think balancing is ever really done.

CrimsonDX.4821:

Darkness.9732:

Gabriell.4856 is perfectly right.
Medium classes will have simply less testing than the others,
I still don t understand why you don t get it @zalavaaris.

Which classes should have gotten less testing instead?

Why are we assuming that ANet cannot tweak and polish medium armour classes after HoT releases?

jheryn.8390:

GROAN. Who really cares when a class gets revealed? Does it ultimately matter? One class has to be first and one has to be last. Why look for a conspiracy?

Well humans evolved in an environment where pattern recognition was an important part of survival. Those who could identify the best patterns (i.e. Ung ate red berry, Ung now dead. Me no eat red berry) had a better chance of survival. Furthermore when it comes to survival it’s better to err on the side of caution, that is to say it’s better to think there’s a tiger in the bushes when there is not, then to think there’s not a tiger in the bushes when there is.
It’s the same reason we see so many ‘RNG is broken’ threads, because of this habit of seeing patterns where there are none.

Excuse me? I assumed what? I already said they will balance after HOT release if they don’t have enough time implying there will be future balancing patches. But whatever, can’t expect people to read the entire thread before giving their 2 cents.

Zalavaaris.5329:

So did 2 heavy armor classes. Do you honestly think they will put a LOT of time into the already tested classes after bwe2? The first reveals only had a weekend of testing just like the next group of classes so there’s no difference in test time. Anything they do to the already tested specs will be some fine tuning but that’s about it. Their focus will undoubtedly be the new revealed specs. You must not trust their time management skills.

What do you mean there’s won’t be a difference in test time. I’m assuming the next BWE will include all classes that have been or will be revealed. Are you saying classes already BWE tested will not be available in BWE2? If so, that would be fair. If not, then my original statement holds true.

It doesn’t matter what I think. Testing is testing and what Anet does is up to them. I just want ALL classes to have the same amount of testing.

Zalavaaris.5329:

To be fair people with that attitude will call it unfinished either way. Maybe they are done as much as any other elite spec. I’m pretty sure they have them all done and use releases to build hype. Having a reveal won’t help balance or fine tuning and I’m very sure they will be available for the next BWE.

ALL medium armor classes already missed one opportunity to test the elite spec to provide feedback. Light armor classes will receive twice the amount of testing. Sorry, that is not fair in my opinion.

dsslive.8473:

The order of the reveals doesn’t really matter, they’ll all still be there come release.

It does matter. HOT is scheduled to be released this year. They said 2015. There’s about 3 months left before the deadline (I hightly doubt they want to release after Xmas).

The classes that were revealed are receiving fine tuning and adjustment due to feedback from BWE.

Basically, the medium armor will be revealed last and leave little time for feedback and adjustments. If they cut it too close, they will patch it after release.

So…I’m going to call it now. Medium armor classes will be unfinished or not as fine tuned as the heavy and light armor classes comes HOT release.

I Backstabbed the Mesmer’s Thank You Post and got it locked.

Thief 1 Mesmer 0

Thief – how can they reveal the thief when it is perma stealth?