Guild Wars 2

Since Anet is giving evade on skills out like candies, I might as well ask.

Luclinraider.2317:

Honestly, I respect your opinions, but I play several classes, and I’m sure if you do the same you’ll agree that thief is the least forgiving, squishiest, and least unique class in the game with the least tech at their disposal.

1. What I mean by this is our tech is stealth…but half the other classes get this as well. Thief doesn’t get rage, or clones, or a second life bar, or tons of buff distribution, or kits and turrets, or a pet, or stances (rev). So right of the bat, whats special about us…..isn’t that special

2. All the other classes have means of survival……..not thief. What I mean by this is that Several classes have the invincibility button. The ones that don’t have mechanics that are nearly just as good, like block all incoming attacks, dodge all incoming attacks, or just plain get an extra life bar to eat those extra attacks. Thief has stealth, but plenty of other people have this as well, on top of that, we still take damage in stealth…this combined with thief being nerfed to have the lowest health pool, makes us easily the squishiest class.

3. This squishyness combined with the lowest health pool, along with our main damage being melee range, makes us the least forgiving. I mean when I play my Ele, or my War, if I make a mistake and attack into an invuln target, I can just mist form away, or invuln to wait them out. If I make this mistake on a thief I am instantly dead. I cannot restealth for 4 seconds…and since I have the lowest health pool, that’s more than enough time to kill me. Even if I make it into stealth I can be burst so low that I die plenty of times even once in stealth. The only scenario in which a class should have to continually put themselves in this kind of danger with EVERY engagement is if “Backstab” read: “Strike and opponent from behind, dealing 100% of their max health in damage”. Sounds ridiculous right? Of course….but the way back stab reads now is: Deals 2,300 damage, if you don’t down them in 4 seconds or less, you lose 100% of your max health…the problem with this is that thief is in no way anywhere near the highest burst class. Burn guards, Mes, Ele, they all outburst us….so why do we have to risk so much for our burst when it pales in comparison to others?

Final- Thief has no special mechanic. And in the end, stealth is not a viable excuse for the PvP in this game. What I mean is that ALL the maps with the exception of one are about holding down points, or pushing down lanes. Stealth only provides the opportunity to run away. So yes, we may get to run away…but this means you’ve taken the points, or you’ve pushed us away from your gate. This means thief will NEVER be a viable class in this games PvP EXCEPT in courtyard, where escaping with your life is actually preserving your score.

Now I know that most all of the pro teams run 1 thief in their teams for rotation. But just look at that….the thief is run not for their stealth, not for their damage, not for their team tech….they are run 1 of for their 5 skill on their OFF-HAND. What this means is the only thing we do better than another class is blink around….which is great and all….better than not being good at anything I guess. But in the end, this is Player vs Players, not Track Running simulator. We want to contribute more to our team than just running around, praying we don’t run into any enemies because in an equal skill scenario, thief cant’ 1v1 any other class.

With all of the elite specs shown, it seems thief is just sinking deeper into the hole, and once again, lack any tech. Ele’s charge into super charged, Rangers have a celestial form, Engi has robots, War has Zerker form/fire, Necro has Reaper form, Guard got traps (Bunker even harder), thief got….and extra dodge…..once again, EVERYONE can dodge….so we get 1 more dodge than everyone else, kinda like we get a little more stealth than everyone……

Every other class gets all these unique things about them, and thief is continuously made to be less and less effective in all aspects of PvP AND PvE.

Thief really needs to be redone.

I wouldn’t say thief is the least forgiving…I mean D/P SA Vamp Runes just carries bad players yet net good to above average results. It’s like how the kitten do you die unless you want to or afk.

EazyPanda.6419:

This question is for those who are still playing as a Thief, who may or may not be Main-ing a Thief, and for people who generally love the Thief as a class.

I believe most of us here love the Thief as a class, otherwise it would not be so painful seeing our class being nerfed, neglected, always getting the short end of the stick, leading to us coming here onto the forums, venting our frustrations and disappointment.

So let’s have a change of mood for once in a while.

Those who hate thieves because they get back-stabbed all the time are welcome as well. (There really is no real reason why you are still QQ-ing, but oh well)
_______________________________________________________________

The reason why I love playing as a thief is akin to why many people love Dark Souls. Make a mistake, and you will get punished for it. You will then proceed to learn from that mistake and get better. The on-edge gameplay feels thrilling -for me-, and when I do pull off something like a 1v2 or being the last person standing in a boss fight, and finished the job, it just feels immensely satisfying to me.

I’m a sucker for classes with a high skill cap, as well as an -arguably- high skill ceiling. (Used to play as a Tempest in Dragon Nest, despite being the hardest class to play)

Because of the followings:

One of the best 1v1 class.
The best PvP class. 1 thief is mandatory.
One of the best WvW roaming class.
Decent to good PvE class. It’s PvE, don’t give a kitten anyways.
Sexy in medium armor.

Lunacy Solacio.6514:

meepeY.2867:

What really sucks is that good Engi’s are saying that they wont even take the Sneak Gyro. They’re happy with the Box Drop or the Elixer. Fair play if you think the Gyro isn’t great.

However, BAD Engi’s who struggle or dislike Thieves will take the Sneak Gyro and now they have the 1-button-press-go-kitten-yourself-anti-Thief ability. Now the bad Engi’s will be able to beat Thieves with another dumb thing that takes out the skill factor and keeps it to a “who’s build is better” orientation.

The skill ceiling keeps getting lower and lower for other Professions where as the bar of requirement for Thieves gets higher and higher. We slowly become a class which is either 100% Glass Cannon so we can 1 shot on a luck based percentage outcome, some form of Trap Bunker Condi or going to the cheesiest of builds in the “Ghost Thief” build (No idea what the “Ghost Thief” is? Click here, sorry for the blatant stream plug).

yeah…. removing damage from the traps allowed this kind of bs. Which is crazy, since Anet added small damage to choking gas so you can’t fire it from stealth on someone.

On ‘good’ engineers not ‘running the Sneak Gyro’, yeah… some won’t but… When lock on was added, so many said they wouldn’t run it, yet what did I see from engineers that were supposed to be good and in a few cases even said they wouldn’t run it? Yep, you got it, they traited it anyways.

Yep. Lock On is part of the Meta Engi’s Rifle Solider build.

http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Engineer_-_Soldier_Rifle

Crowlia.1987:

“This can only occur once per strike.” Is what the trait tooltip says. Means you can only get the effect once per time you do damage.

So to get the most out of your life siphoning you should activate the venoms in turn, as it does not stack.

Is it per weapon strike or any direct damage (procs, stacks, steal, etc)?

How do I counter MB other than the obvious dodge/invul/block? Can I reflect/destroy it?

Taku.6352:

bloodpyrope.8630:

Gabriell.4856:

bloodpyrope.8630:

Turtle Dragon.9241:

Thief can now:
Steal a Ranger’s Pet, making them unable to use Pet commands/skills. You must use Steal on the Pet for this to happen.

Ok, but don’t forget, once you steal a pet, you lose 20-30% of your stats and your F skills get replaced by the pet f skills Also when you stealth, your new pet will follow you around and give away your position unless you command it to attack someone.

Pet stays with you until it dies, or someone else steals it!

Hi,

Can you tell me where your magical 20-30% stats went because…everyone get the same stats with the amulet system. Am I right?

Supposedly, rangers deal 20-30% less damage because those stats went to the pets. I don’t actually have any official proof from Anet (maybe someone else does) but it’s just one of those things everyone says is true.

Not stats directly but skill damages and coefficients are lower to compensate for the pet.

I see. So Ranger LB is suppose to be subpar to others oh…wait what??? What is this high damage coef?

bloodpyrope.8630:

Turtle Dragon.9241:

Thief can now:
Steal a Ranger’s Pet, making them unable to use Pet commands/skills. You must use Steal on the Pet for this to happen.

Ok, but don’t forget, once you steal a pet, you lose 20-30% of your stats and your F skills get replaced by the pet f skills Also when you stealth, your new pet will follow you around and give away your position unless you command it to attack someone.

Pet stays with you until it dies, or someone else steals it!

Hi,

Can you tell me where your magical 20-30% stats went because…everyone get the same stats with the amulet system. Am I right?

Atherakhia.4086:

Lets not forget chill should affect initiative regen!

Why stop there. Chill should affect necro LF regen, warrior adr, rev energy, and all movement abilities.

Karl McLain.5604:

Ricochet in its previous implementation is not slated to return at this time.
When the trait system was condensed, the standard was set in that each weapon set could only have one trait. Being that a player might want to receive increased damage from pistols, but not necessarily inherit the RNG bounce attacks from the secondary trait, this secondary trait was cut.
I will say though that pistols are something we’ll be looking to improve, being as they feel under-tuned at the moment.

-Karl

Karl-

Suggestion.

-Switch the following traits; Flanking Strike with Ankle Shots.
-Remove bleed from Pistol 1.
-Update Ankle Shots to add two stacks of bleed to pistol one.
-Remove Pistol 1 as it currently is.
-Replace the current Pistol 1 with Repeater (pistol 3 w/o offhand) and adjust the cast time and damage.
-Increase the damage of Pistol #3.
-All pistol skills pierce.

What you get. An awesome animation on Pistol #1. Basically, thief will be a true gunslinger. Always unloading on someone either with #1 or #3. With the introduction of DD, they can get additional defense with the new dodge and access to stealth.

Slight nerf to P/D as Ankle Shots will be required thus they can’t take Uncatchable or TotC.

The QQ was effective. UA got nerfed. Onward to the next victim.

•Unyielding Anguish: This skill has been re-worked. This skill will now leap to the target location creating a dark field which chills for 1 second and torments for 4 seconds per pulse. The field lasts for 4 seconds and pulses every 1 second. Added a 10 second recharge.

Zero Day.2594:

As much as some people would love animation changes (I’ve just watched videos…) as well as how the thief holds the staff on idle/while running changed – I don’t think that will happen, since it’s too “costly”/hard. While changing/tweeking numbers is editing a few variables/entries in a table – though mentally/logically straining… -, making/editing animations needs quite a bit more work along with polish to straighten them out. Like the current idle/running animation would essentially be scrapped and which ever group of people work on animations would need to redo the whole thing again. Can’t see that happening, considering they’ve already recycled some animations for the elite specs.

:P But then again, I’ve only barely touched model animations in my experiences… So maybe there are technologies/tools that make it a lot easier than I perceive.

Not a revamp but they are tweaking animation for other classes. Sigh. Wish thief got the same love…

Rev:
Staff
In staff the changes were mostly about the flow of play. It felt awkward to have to stand still to cast Renewing Wave so I changed out the animation to one that would work while moving to keep this weapon more mobile feeling. Debilitating Slam had a long cast time for a skill which is used for an interrupt so I went ahead and shortened that down to so it could be used as a more reactionary skill.

Reaper:
Staff
In staff the changes were mostly about the flow of play. It felt awkward to have to stand still to cast Renewing Wave so I changed out the animation to one that would work while moving to keep this weapon more mobile feeling. Debilitating Slam had a long cast time for a skill which is used for an interrupt so I went ahead and shortened that down to so it could be used as a more reactionary skill.

One of the problem with P/P is Retal. I really don’t like the idea of doing 4-5K to the enemy while hurting myself for 1.5-2K. That is a bad trade off. You could say don’t use #3 when they have retal up but what am I going to do since #1 blows and #2/#4/#5 are utility skills?

BLU -

Assuming Shadow is telling the truth doesn’t rule 3.2.2 quality the SA player as NA b/c he is a US citizen?

3.2.2. Team nationality

In general, during matches of ESL national sections, at all times in-game a team must have more than 50% of its players that are residing in or have the nationality of the country or countries that the national section represents.

That means Shadow would have 3/5 NA players, more than half. Which satisfy this requirement:

1.6. Go4GuildWars2 Region Restrictions

The majority of the team have to be from the region they participate in. It’s not allowed to play in both the NA region and the EU region in the same week.

Thief is fine in pvp than some minor tweak. Anyone that say otherwise is blind.

In WvW, tag them all with SB then hide to collect loot bags.

Rin.1046:

Gabriell.4856:

Wtf is this? We roleplaying again? Fine. I will role play with you.

That is fine as long as DD don’t spec thief. Hope you enjoy specing into one trait line and if you trait into the other 5 then you’re a hypocrite or shall we say more thief than DD. lolz

Seriously? Are you really getting that upset over one skill? Do you rely on stealth that much?!

This has f all to do with role playing, it is about playstyles. The core thief playstyle is about using stealth and being effective at taking opponents by surprise. The DD playstyle is about getting in the thick of it, evading and interrupting their targets. Yes, you can make a hybrid, but don’t expect a full stealth build to work with a traitline that is about evasive play.

If you want to be strong at evades then take DD, if you want to be strong at stealth then take Thief. If you want to be strong at both, then you will be very disappointed.

You can run an effective stealth build with the DD traitline, all it means is that Shadow Refuge (again ONE SKILL) is more risky to use, but any other stealth related skill and trait will work just as it currently does. If Shadow Refuge really is that much of a crutch to you then you have bigger problems to deal I’m afraid.

Why so upset based on someone’s suggestion to have a on/off toggle button? Calm down dude.

Rin.1046:

Gabriell.4856:

Because each GM has a potential to reveal me so…please give me an option to turn it off when I don’t need it.

At the end of the day, if you want to spec for stealth, core thief is where you want to be. The DD is all about evades, so they are less inclined to think about stealth and how it fits into their build. Besides, this is only a risk for Shadow Refuge, which is ONE skill. I do not think they will/should change the dodge replacer’s functionality just to accomodate one skill, when you can easily spec for core thief and use it without an issue.

If you want Shadow Refuge to work on your bar, go thief.

Wtf is this? We roleplaying again? Fine. I will role play with you.

That is fine as long as DD don’t spec thief. Hope you enjoy specing into one trait line and if you trait into the other 5 then you’re a hypocrite or shall we say more thief than DD. lolz

But seriously, can you stop playing “I know what the Dev thinks.”

Rin.1046:

Gabriell.4856:

Need a kitten F6 to turn that kitten off or /regular dodge so I can dodge in my SR… ; /

Anyways, as I said before, add those dodges to F3-5.

With my Unhindered Stance example you will essentially be doing a normal dodge but gain swiftness and remove cripple. Why would you want to turn that off?

@Bllade – I just feel it would offer you too many tools while in combat, but hey, if Anet wants to do that then I won’t complain. But I suspect other profs will.

Your crippled and chilled? No probs I’ll swap to dash and remove them. Smoke field? Excellent, I’ll swap to bound and stealth. I need to cripple them but have no initiative, no probs I’ll swap to lotus and cripple them. You cannot do all of these things in the DD’s current state, and I think that was a balancing decision they made.

With more evades, condition clears from evades and endurance gain from steal, not to mention endurance gain from core thief traits and skills, having access to so many tricks on your dodging could potentially be OP. Each dodge replacer can be very strong on its own. Bounding dodger for example can help pistol pistol and sword pistol users enter stealth more easily, and that is not something to be sniffed at. That is very strong. So they need to weigh up the pros and cons of allowing access to all 3 in combat, and in my opinion I think they will consider it too strong.

Because each GM has a potential to reveal me so…please give me an option to turn it off when I don’t need it.

If they add F3-5, the new GM shouldn’t just enhence one specific type of dodge. Why not have traits that benefits all dodges? I proposed the following:

F3-5 added for the new dodges. Same effects. Can be toggle off for people who don’t want the effect other than the GM.

New GM – 3 seperate GM’s add additional effect to all dodges
-When you dodge, you gain protection for X secs
-When you dodge, you gain resistance for X secs
-When you dodge, you gain stability for X secs

But with less than 2 months before release of HOT, I highly doubt they will redo it even if they wanted too. Just not enough time…

Rin.1046:

Bllade.1029:

Maybe an idea where instead of just giving you access to one the dodges, the GM traits greatly enhance a particular dodge you wish to focus on; making it much more powerful.

The way they are now (with some slight adjustments to the animation and mechanics) would be the base dodge you would get between your F3-F4-F5 dodge swap. However, one of those would be your focus and the traits would greatly enhance that particular dodge.

Example might be: “I’m going to need a lot more mobility and condition cleanse, i’m going to spec into dash.” Dash would do what it does now, but that GM trait might give it something like increased range, removal of more conditions on evade. Etc.

Another example: “I think Condi pressure is on the menu for this particular fight, im going to specialize into Lotus Training on this one.” So you’d spec into Lotus training which would enhance the dodge even more so.

At the end of the day you could use multiple dodges, but one of them is going to be your focus.

So what you want is to have all 3 dodges available while in combat, AND you want one of them to be stronger via a GM trait? Having access to all 3 in combat would be OP enough, without being able to augment one even more.

I would be ok with having a revenant legend type selection, so you can select any dodge, but only while out of combat, and free up the GMs for something else.

I think having access to all 3 dodges (as they currently are), in combat, would be too much. I like the idea of them being stances, but I think if that was to happen the dodge replacers would need to be toned down. So my suggestion is as follows:

F3-5 sets you into different stances, which augments your dodge, and the GM traits can augment those stances even more. Each stance and GM trait would work as follows:

Stances
Lotus Stance = When you dodge you throw two daggers out to apply bleeding and torment to your target.

Unhindered Stance = When you dodge you gain swiftness and remove cripple.

Bounding Stance = When you dodge you deal AoE damage where you land.

GM Traits
Lotus Master = Your Lotus Stance is improved, allowing you to throw out one more dagger when dodging, to cripple your foe, and your dodge becomes a whirl finisher. While you have the Lotus Stance active you gain increased condition duration (+10%).

Unstoppable Master = Your Unhindered Stance is improved, allowing your dodge to remove chill and you travel further. While you have the Unhindered Stance active immobilize effects on you have reduced duration (-30%)

Leaping Master = Your Bounding Stance is improved, adding a leap finisher to your dodge rolls. While Bounding Stance is active you gain 10 endurance when you successfully evade an attack.

The above might be OP, but its the general idea I am trying to convey. If we are going to have all 3 dodges available in combat, there effectiveness needs to be reduced in some way, in my opinion.

Need a kitten F6 to turn that kitten off or /regular dodge so I can dodge in my SR… ; /

Anyways, as I said before, add those dodges to F3-5.

Vlad.1739:

you guys are kind of off topic. The point is how do u counter play a the skill when the entire team revolves around it. The mode conquest is about holding points Unyielding anguish=100% chance to cap even during full out team fight.

You counter it by using Unyielding Anguish of your own.

Thief isn’t strong; SB5 too OP. It carries the thief.

DingoVad.1945:

How do you guys think thiefs (And Daredevil) will do in raids? As i see it, so many other classes has the same damage, with better support and better defence? The only pro to thief would be more dodging, and stealth, but how often would stealth be needed in a single encounter? I love thief, but i will be focusing my time on raids, and thief seems underpowered here :/

No one can interrupt as much as a thief. Assuming boss fights will require interrupt/cc, thief will get a slot.

After further testing, Tempest blows…

Staff 1. So…its basically the same thing but looks better? WTF?

Ithilwen.1529:

Have you played the new spec? The dodges and evades are relatively slow and it’s still only a very brief stealth that will be overwritten a lot of the time by revealed debuff.

I think the worry about this is a non issue.

Yes, I have. It doesn’t matter if the animation is slow which to me it isn’t.

You can mini dodge leap in the BP just like mini HS’ing in BP. You can get all 3 dodges off actually but thats not the point. The point is how do you counter it?

stof.9341:

Blocked by Daze, no client side lag compensation. Yep, they are skills :p

The only benefit is you can aim your camera to do mini dodges to get more stealth like mini HS in BP.

Ithilwen.1529:

That doesn’t really make sense. To have stealth you need a blast or leap finisher into a dark field.

So “if” an evade is a leap finisher ( I didn’t check ) you’d have to bp > swap to staff > leap. That’s a long combo for not much stealth.. a couple of seconds at the cost of being stuck in staff with two skills on cd.

This is not unfair.

Your post doesn’t make any sense. What are you talking about? Was I talking about staff?

Just so I’m clear, I’m talking about the thief new dodge. They can pick from either:

1-Dodge, remove movement condi and gain boon, dodge further
2-AOE condi damage, whirl finisher
3-basically, its the warrior reckless dodge with high damage and leap finisher.

You can use any weapon set with the elite spec. For example, a D/P thief could HS or dodge thru BP to gain stealth.

Back then, I could at least interrupt BP plus HS. How do I counter BP plus Dodge? Which dev thought this would be fair and add to competitive play?

As Topic suggested. How do I go about getting refund on my HOT preorder?

Staff is meh. Going to ask for refund on HOT.

Adamantium.3682:

As to your last point you can change traits at any time out of combat, isn’t that the solution you’re asking for?

Because not everyone play PvE and Wvw. Some player may focus their attention on Spvp where it’s more balance.

Tempest has a trait that reduce CD and Arcana further reduce CD. Double CD reduction equal business as usual in terms of attunement swapping.

Lol. I’m going to call it. Water/Arcane/Tempest will be the new Water/Arcane/Fire.

Basically another D/D Cele Ele but I just want to throw it out there with a tempest twist.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQJAoIWOBM3xaa9tScACALgiSwA8DA-TJxHwADeAAa2fAwJAoYZAA

I’m not going to go thru the submechanics as how everything works other than use fire overload before engage to stack might. Other than that, I think we should know just by looking at it. Basically, its a bunker build with high direct damage and condi damage with high might stacking thru combos and overload.

Engjoy.

Lol. I just tired it. This is pure trash.

Josh Davis.6015:

So, I can’t go into much detail on things quite yet, but I just wanted to reassure you folks that we’re actively discussing a number of issues that are affecting balance in PvP – including, but not limited to elementalist sustain/damage. Per the usual, we’ll be talking to you folks about the changes once we’ve finalized them.

Sorry I haven’t been that active on the forums lately – we’ve been pretty busy around the office.

“Thanks, Grouch. You’re the worst!”

Edit: Also, just because this is an elementalist thread doesn’t mean we’re only looking at elementalist, and it also doesn’t mean we’re only looking at doing nerfs.

Suggest that discussion be put on hold until a month or two after HOT release. I’m willing to bet the Meta will change with the introduction of Elite specs. Will the Ele still be the top dog? I don’t know but let the Meta settle a bit please.

My prediction:

Burning Fire – Reduce might from 3 to 2.
Pyromancer’s Training – Reduce 33% to 20%
Blinding Ashes – Increase CD to 10 secs

Soothing Disruption – Regen/Vigor reduced to 3 secs
Cleansing Water – Add CD

Drake Breath – Reduce CD from 3 to 2 secs
Ring of Fire – Reduce Burning to 2 stacks and add CD

Karl McLain.5604:

Pulmonary Impact currently does stack in intensity. If your palm strike interrupts, you get a double-activation of Pulmonary.

Can you dodge pulmonary impact or will it interrupt your dodge like the gaurdian pull?

Rin.1046:

So let me get this straight. Before we have even tried in the beta you are unhappy with it? I am going to through this out there now, because I think this kind of mentality is ridiculous. If you are unhappy about the elite spec, before even trying it, you are never going to like it, so you may as well move on to something else.

You totally missed the point. Suggest you go back and reread the thread before posting.

Mightymealworm.8409:

To the OP, to be ‘FAIR’ you probably couldn’t keep f1 and f2. You would have to replace them with the dodges. Then it would be ‘FAIR’. Elite specs are meant to be different, not stronger. The mechanic isn’t the same, but if its balanced and useful so what? How many useless or bad trait lines are in this game between all the professions? If the devs can make it work, by all means let it work!

Such rubbish.

Does the Ele loses the ability to attunement swap? Attunement Swap + Overload
Does the Mesmer loses shatters/clones? F1-4 + F5
Does the Warrior loses burst skills? F1 + F2
Does the Guardian loses their Virtues and passives? F1-3
Does the Revenant loses all their heroes? 4 selectable Heros to 5
Does the Necro loses Life Force?
NO!!!

Then why the kitten would you think it would be “FAIR” to replace steal with the new dodge? Most if not all of the Elites make the classes stronger in terms of adding an ADDITIONAL mechanic to the class…So please, do tell us what is “fair.”

I’m not implying that I agree with the OP suggestion. The option to select difference dodges at anytime may cause a balancing problem. I would suggest them adding an F3 and let use select the dodge and it locks while in combat and rearrange/give new GM traits. I would love it if they put Escapist’s Abso in the GM tier.

Goldenrevolver.4371:

Gabriell.4856:

How is a minor (…) and major (…) the same thing? One is locked in and the other is selectable….

great you took my words completely out of context.
-you can compare major traits on the same tier
-you can compare minor traits on all tiers
-you can switch tiers without changing anything

because you have to select one of each tier anyways.

Exactly! So why is our new mechanic gated behind a major while others get it in their minor? That is the point the OP is trying to make. You can think his suggestion is over the top or what not but it doesnt change the fact that it is gated.

Goldenrevolver.4371:

this is as ridiculous as necromancers asking to have BOTH death shroud and reapers shroud at the same time. both have their advantages and disadvantages. having both would be insane.

and the everlasting stupid argument: BUT ITS A GRANDMASTER!!!!!1111… in the new trait system there is no difference between adept and grandmasters. you have to pick the entire traitline doesnt matter what. grandmasters are most of the time the strongest trait only because of the old trait system. its just that you have to put equally strong traits at the same tier to create a meaningful choice in choosing traits.

---

also completely offtopic i love how necros are saying daredevil is a hardcounter to reaper and thiefs are saying reaper is a hardcounter to daredevil xD

How is a minor adept and major GM the same thing? One is locked in and the other is selectable….

riian.5690:

I’m thinking this.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQFAWn0MBFOhNmCGmCkmiFYCzLMEHaDzhwTYLULBEAyAA-TJBFABCcBAEvMQN7PAwDAAA
Gobs of cc. Not sure of SoA, this could be played sPvP or WvW really. Decent point defender?

Feed back on your build.

No second weapon therefore the build will fail automatically.

Basically, this build go in and do as much damage as possible then die. Limited escape after blowing up your dodges and by that time you will be out of init too.

Fistandanthilus.6824:

So here I leave 2 builds for sPVP which I think will work pretty good and use s/d which is my favorite weapon set.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAsYVn0MBdPhlOBWOBkmiFYCzLNcGaDzdwSYLULBEA2NA-TpBFABCcEAEvMABPAga2fYhDBAAnAAA

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAsYVn0MBdPhlOBGmCkmiFqiyLE+gSornCggcO7/+yH-TpBFABCcEAEvMABPAga2fYhDBAAnAAA

Feedback on the first build.

Very low condi clear. You will rely on IR and SR for the condi clear since EA is on evade. Sword is a lot lower than dagger and the the build lack burst so fighting cele necro and ele will be challenging. Also, Unhinered Combatant will be a pain while in SR. My verdict – average for top tier, decent for trolling in soloq.

Feedback on the second build.

You have very low damage and slow attacks. This build hopes to kill noobs or troll people while hindering our own team. My verdict – trash for top tier, very good for trolling in soloq.

R20 for ranked. It doesn’t fixes anything! So, you guys asked for it – keep noobs away from ranked yet top players/teams are queing for unranked. WTF? Why? I mean, I shouldn’t be playing again 4/5 Abjured in unranked.

I know I know. They are customers/players too and should be able to que whatever they want. Right? Wrong. If you’re going to put a restriction in for ranked, put a restriction in for unranked. If you are above x MMR, you can’t que for unranked.

Rain.9213:

To OP:
While I understand what you’re saying, I don’t think your argument is justified as the specialization is balanced around letting you choose your playstyle. By forcing you to pick one, you have to really think about what you want in your build. All three of these dodge effects are very powerful and Anet likely chose to make them Grandmasters as giving us even more will probably make Thief an uncatchable, nuking menace. I mean…. remove a condition on dodge AND heal for 450 every second… Seriously, that’s ridiculously strong. We also get a 3rd dodge, recover a dodge on steal, and can deal 10% more damage after a dodge, apply tons of weakness, or reduce the cooldown on our Physicals which are also extremely powerful. Personally, I like how much stuff they gave Daredevil. It looks strong but not OP which is always a good thing.

Looks good on paper. I can do it too.

S/X, I mean…remove condition on IR and heal while in stealth or with assassin reward… Seriously, that’s ridiculously strong. We also get an attack that evade and follows up with a hard hitting attack and steal boon, or reduce the cooldown on steal and we all know steal is extremely powerful.

Basically, you just listed a bunch of things together without giving any context as to how that build would work in a gamemode or how a DD would enhence the thief ranking in a gamemode.

Rangers – 1500 range, a pet! Omg looks strong.

Kocoff.7582:

Gabriell.4856:

Kocoff.7582:

Gabriell.4856:

Dahkeus.8243:

Kocoff.7582:

Rain.9213:

Kocoff.7582:

Rain.9213:

Doggie.3184:

Kocoff.7582:

ALSO for those who, like me, are seriously considering using this spec as main spec….

May I suggest this appetizer: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_Evasion

What do you think? or is it too underwhelming?

I’m too obsessed with Traveler runes. gottagofast

If you pick up Runes of Evasion+Dash dodge, you will get 11 seconds of swiftness on a dodge roll, plus Fury plus cripple an enemy every 10 seconds AND 175 Ferocity.

So that’s practically permanent swiftness if you’re using Thrill of the Crime.

You also have other swiftness rune options like Rune of the Pack and Centaur that increase your damage and also give you lots of swiftness. Save those Traveler runes for Necromancer or Mesmer, dude!

That’s a good a point. I would use Runes of Evasion to replace Impairing Daggers, in case i need to chase. Bound is too good to pass mate. especially WvW. The choices really compete against each other and they made good job.

I just wish, Escapist’s Absolution would change tiers or just simply be a minor.

Bound is good if you’re running off hand Pistol or Staff. I really don’t see it doing much for off hand dagger other than some nice dodge damage but it could potentially reveal you if you’re in stealth and you dodge to avoid an incoming hit. Plus you have to dodge into an enemy if you wanna hit them and you usually wanna evade away from an enemy.

That’s right. It could completely mess you up.

I think this right here will keep S/P from being as awesome as some people think it will be. Sure, you get stealth from offhand + dodge, but if you SR and then try to dodge a knockback, you’re likely to reveal yourself from the damage.

Yep. The 3 dodge traits will not work with SR.

Damage on dodge will reveal. Dash will reveal b/c the distance is further than the radius of RF.

Also if you are in stealth, damage on dodge will reveal so you either reveal or eat w/e damage/cc.

You can take Dash but you will probably have to give up SR, one of our best utility.

Idk where I read it Gab but damage on dodge will not reveal . Bound does not reveal. If i remember correctly, the Dev said it.
However, the damage on dodge from the Rune of Evasion? I am not sure.
we need the dev to answer that too.

Bound will reveal if you hit anything in stealth. Basically, you will be trading the ability to dodge while in stealth and SR because people cant seem to think beyound what is in front of their eyes. DD is trash and so is staff. I’l talking strictly pvp but wvw and pve doesn’t matter. Balance is revoled around 5v5 and DD and staff doesnt ill in what is missing.

lol ok..

It’s time for me to start playing without Shadow Refuge.

Thieves in spvp are taken b/c of +1, decap, and stealth rez. Up to you but you just made yourself 1/3 less effective.

Kocoff.7582:

Gabriell.4856:

Dahkeus.8243:

Kocoff.7582:

Rain.9213:

Kocoff.7582:

Rain.9213:

Doggie.3184:

Kocoff.7582:

ALSO for those who, like me, are seriously considering using this spec as main spec….

May I suggest this appetizer: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_Evasion

What do you think? or is it too underwhelming?

I’m too obsessed with Traveler runes. gottagofast

If you pick up Runes of Evasion+Dash dodge, you will get 11 seconds of swiftness on a dodge roll, plus Fury plus cripple an enemy every 10 seconds AND 175 Ferocity.

So that’s practically permanent swiftness if you’re using Thrill of the Crime.

You also have other swiftness rune options like Rune of the Pack and Centaur that increase your damage and also give you lots of swiftness. Save those Traveler runes for Necromancer or Mesmer, dude!

That’s a good a point. I would use Runes of Evasion to replace Impairing Daggers, in case i need to chase. Bound is too good to pass mate. especially WvW. The choices really compete against each other and they made good job.

I just wish, Escapist’s Absolution would change tiers or just simply be a minor.

Bound is good if you’re running off hand Pistol or Staff. I really don’t see it doing much for off hand dagger other than some nice dodge damage but it could potentially reveal you if you’re in stealth and you dodge to avoid an incoming hit. Plus you have to dodge into an enemy if you wanna hit them and you usually wanna evade away from an enemy.

That’s right. It could completely mess you up.

I think this right here will keep S/P from being as awesome as some people think it will be. Sure, you get stealth from offhand + dodge, but if you SR and then try to dodge a knockback, you’re likely to reveal yourself from the damage.

Yep. The 3 dodge traits will not work with SR.

Damage on dodge will reveal. Dash will reveal b/c the distance is further than the radius of RF.

Also if you are in stealth, damage on dodge will reveal so you either reveal or eat w/e damage/cc.

You can take Dash but you will probably have to give up SR, one of our best utility.

Idk where I read it Gab but damage on dodge will not reveal . Bound does not reveal. If i remember correctly, the Dev said it.
However, the damage on dodge from the Rune of Evasion? I am not sure.
we need the dev to answer that too.

Bound will reveal if you hit anything in stealth. Basically, you will be trading the ability to dodge while in stealth and SR because people cant seem to think beyound what is in front of their eyes. DD is trash and so is staff. I’l talking strictly pvp but wvw and pve doesn’t matter. Balance is revoled around 5v5 and DD and staff doesnt ill in what is missing.