So the balance between high risk/skill and high reward doesn’t apply to thiefs. You need to play like a pro to be a little useful. But if you have those skills, just reroll another class and even get more rewarded. So why does this class not get deleted completelY from the game? It would save a lot of time for newcomers who start with a thief.
What are you talking about? Vault is a low risk high reward skill….
To summarize this thread, Op wants Ranger nerfs due to the fact he/she refuses to learn how to counter rapid fire of all things.
Guess its the in thing now to complain until a dev kneejerks a nerf to it. Seems to be working regardless…
Not OP but I do not have a problem with Ranger damage and am just here to post facts.
Rangers are already bad enough in other modes for years now, gotta nerf them in PvP too to keep with the status. Even though we are barely in the meta as it is with few viable builds. Not even considering our bad pet A.I and multiple bugs. And have been getting continuous nerfs since release.
But nope, gotta keep nerfing till we are dead and gone as a class.
Lol, lets not even get into how the community views Rangers as a whole. Bearbow much..
Then Anet needs to address pet AI. Not add damage to pet or weapon skill to cover their laziness.
Rangers have been asking for this for years. It’s unlikely to happen at this point. We deal with what we have.
Response front ANET please? Why are you guys a bunch of kittenes? So the problem is ANET inaction to really change balance because they are a bunch of lazy kitten. Go figure.
ANET. There’s a problem. Go fix it. Stop scratching your balls or kittens.
To summarize this thread, Op wants Ranger nerfs due to the fact he/she refuses to learn how to counter rapid fire of all things.
Guess its the in thing now to complain until a dev kneejerks a nerf to it. Seems to be working regardless…
Not OP but I do not have a problem with Ranger damage and am just here to post facts.
Rangers are already bad enough in other modes for years now, gotta nerf them in PvP too to keep with the status. Even though we are barely in the meta as it is with few viable builds. Not even considering our bad pet A.I and multiple bugs. And have been getting continuous nerfs since release.
But nope, gotta keep nerfing till we are dead and gone as a class.
Lol, lets not even get into how the community views Rangers as a whole. Bearbow much..
Then Anet needs to address pet AI. Not add damage to pet or weapon skill to cover their laziness.
Edit:
You are implying that Warrior’s rifle does the same dps than Ranger’s LB….which isn’t true duel to RF and Barrage and Long Range Shot…..
That was not at all implied.
Warrior Rifle is the lowest DPS weapon for the profession while Ranger Longbow is one of the highest for the profession. The fact that they are both ranged does not mean that they can be compared to each other for balance purposes.
For balance purposes, the purpose it serve is to apply pressure from long range so therefore the two are comparable.
Again, why should any ranger ability hit harder than any other classes when 30% of its stats is suppose to be given to the pet?
Because killshot hits harder than pets! And it hits moving targets …
Btw, why didn’t you compare rangers greatsword with other greatswords?
Any here I thought Killshot was a class mechanic…we are comparing base weapon skill so stay on topic please.
We are actually discussing pets, as well. After all, your premise is that base ranger damage should be additionally nerfed to compensate for pet damage. Pets are the ranger mechanic, if you didn’t know.
And since when Warrior don’t have to manually activate or build resource to use burst skill? Anways, wver 10 secs a pet will do more damage than kill shot. Thanks. Come again.
And, since Ranger’s base damage is lower than Warrior’s, they become equivalent once more when accounting for class mechanics. My friend, I’m beginning to think you’re being deliberately obtuse.
My friend, I don’t think you did the match. Compare LB ranger + pet vs warrior + burst. You’re wrong. Remember they have two pets. Lolz.
Again, why should any ranger ability hit harder than any other classes when 30% of its stats is suppose to be given to the pet?
Because killshot hits harder than pets! And it hits moving targets …
Btw, why didn’t you compare rangers greatsword with other greatswords?
Any here I thought Killshot was a class mechanic…we are comparing base weapon skill so stay on topic please.
We are actually discussing pets, as well. After all, your premise is that base ranger damage should be additionally nerfed to compensate for pet damage. Pets are the ranger mechanic, if you didn’t know.
And since when Warrior don’t have to manually activate or build resource to use burst skill? Anways, wver 10 secs a pet will do more damage than kill shot. Thanks. Come again.
We do. Our weapon damage is lower than other classes.
I really don’t see it on LB and GS. Actually, I don’t see it on any of their weapons.
How come conditions applied by ranger hit for the same amount as other classes?
You can’t really see it directly in game.
Basically, gear has stats that give EVERYONE the same number of power/condition damage/etc on the stat page, however each individual weapon skill has a “damage amount” that is calculated based on a set amount plus a formula that uses the stat page. Because each individual skill has a unique formula, the stat page increases the amount of damage at different rates for different classes/weapons/numbered skills.
Rangers are given more weight towards the flat damage amount and get less benefit from the stat page numbers which means that a full damage specced Elementalist is going to do a lot more damage than a Ranger wearing the exact same gear simply because going full damage does not give as much of a damage increase to the Ranger as it did the Elementalist.
For example consider this hypothetical comparison (assume both Ranger and Elementalist have 100 Power):
Elementalist Skill #1 does 100 damage plus 25% of Power.
Ranger Skill #1 does 100 damage plus 1% of Power.
The Elementalist will do (100 + (100*.25))=125 DPS
The Ranger will do (100 + (100*.01))=101 DPS
The idea is that the Pet will make up the missing 24 DPS, which it can do in PvE against AI that doesn’t ever move but will never do in PvP, WvW, or newer AI that moves around.
Thank you for the informative response. Based on your example, I applied a particular ranger skill vs another class.
Ranger LD Rapid Fire Vs Warrior Volley
10 secs CD, 3.75 damage coef, 1500 range
vs
10 sec Cd, 3.0 damage coef, 1200 range
So…how do you explain that? Maybe Rapid Fire should be nerfed by 30-40%?
If you noticed, each shot from the rifle does more damage than each individual shot from Rapid Fire (5 shots from the rifle versus 10 shots from the longbow). Warriors also have better access to might and damage modifiers than Rangers. They also build up adrenaline to use high-damage burst skills, which increases their overall DPS. If you think that Warrior’s Volley should do more damage, then petition for that. However, as it stands, you appear upset that you were defeated by a ranger, and, rather than learning how to counter Ranger skills, would prefer that they were nerfed to make you feel more powerful. This is not helpful and you ultimately are impeding your own progress as a player.
Those numbers are the combined of all shots, 10 vs 5 makes 0 difference besides it’s harder to blind/aegis the Rangers.
I know this. That is why I said each individual shot has a damage difference. It makes it much different for counterplay purposes, especially using reflects and retaliation. If you cannot blind/aegis/reflect/block/cc/retaliation, I would suggest dodging. A well-timed dodge can negate most of the damage from both Volley and Rapid Fire.
So you are basically agreeing that RF is harder to mitigate and it also offer a higher chance to proc sigils and such. Thanks for the backup.
Again, why should any ranger ability hit harder than any other classes when 30% of its stats is suppose to be given to the pet?
But you know what. Balancing in this game if fail. The dev are clueless. I should just accept it for what it is because too many idiots are in charge.
Rapid Fire is a strong skill that is balanced by the lack of damage modifiers available in the Ranger trait lines, the slow longbow autoattack, and the lack of any other strong DPS skills on longbow. It will not proc sigils more often than other attacks, given that sigils have an internal cooldown. Note: I am not counting Barrage as a strong DPS skill, as players can easily walk out of the AoE to avoid damage completely, and casting Barrage leaves a Ranger vulnerable for a significant period of time.
If you would like for Rangers to be weaker than every other class, it seems that you have a faulty concept of “balance”. You seem to have a personal vendetta against Rangers. This is no one’s fault but your own. You have been offered advice on how to counter Ranger abilities, which in turn led you to focus your strange vendetta solely on Rapid Fire—largely considered Ranger’s strongest weapon ability—and compare it to one of Warrior’s weakest. If you don’t wish to improve your own skill and learn to counter Ranger abilities, do not blame others for your lack of effort.
Sorry, I do not have a vendetta against Rangers. I’m just here to get an explanation as to why certain skills/weapons does more damage than close mirror when 30% of the ranger damage is suppose to be from the pet. Nothing more and nothing less.
We do. Our weapon damage is lower than other classes.
I really don’t see it on LB and GS. Actually, I don’t see it on any of their weapons.
How come conditions applied by ranger hit for the same amount as other classes?
You can’t really see it directly in game.
Basically, gear has stats that give EVERYONE the same number of power/condition damage/etc on the stat page, however each individual weapon skill has a “damage amount” that is calculated based on a set amount plus a formula that uses the stat page. Because each individual skill has a unique formula, the stat page increases the amount of damage at different rates for different classes/weapons/numbered skills.
Rangers are given more weight towards the flat damage amount and get less benefit from the stat page numbers which means that a full damage specced Elementalist is going to do a lot more damage than a Ranger wearing the exact same gear simply because going full damage does not give as much of a damage increase to the Ranger as it did the Elementalist.
For example consider this hypothetical comparison (assume both Ranger and Elementalist have 100 Power):
Elementalist Skill #1 does 100 damage plus 25% of Power.
Ranger Skill #1 does 100 damage plus 1% of Power.
The Elementalist will do (100 + (100*.25))=125 DPS
The Ranger will do (100 + (100*.01))=101 DPS
The idea is that the Pet will make up the missing 24 DPS, which it can do in PvE against AI that doesn’t ever move but will never do in PvP, WvW, or newer AI that moves around.
Thank you for the informative response. Based on your example, I applied a particular ranger skill vs another class.
Ranger LD Rapid Fire Vs Warrior Volley
10 secs CD, 3.75 damage coef, 1500 range
vs
10 sec Cd, 3.0 damage coef, 1200 range
So…how do you explain that? Maybe Rapid Fire should be nerfed by 30-40%?
If you noticed, each shot from the rifle does more damage than each individual shot from Rapid Fire (5 shots from the rifle versus 10 shots from the longbow). Warriors also have better access to might and damage modifiers than Rangers. They also build up adrenaline to use high-damage burst skills, which increases their overall DPS. If you think that Warrior’s Volley should do more damage, then petition for that. However, as it stands, you appear upset that you were defeated by a ranger, and, rather than learning how to counter Ranger skills, would prefer that they were nerfed to make you feel more powerful. This is not helpful and you ultimately are impeding your own progress as a player.
Those numbers are the combined of all shots, 10 vs 5 makes 0 difference besides it’s harder to blind/aegis the Rangers.
I know this. That is why I said each individual shot has a damage difference. It makes it much different for counterplay purposes, especially using reflects and retaliation. If you cannot blind/aegis/reflect/block/cc/retaliation, I would suggest dodging. A well-timed dodge can negate most of the damage from both Volley and Rapid Fire.
So you are basically agreeing that RF is harder to mitigate and it also offer a higher chance to proc sigils and such. Thanks for the backup.
Again, why should any ranger ability hit harder than any other classes when 30% of its stats is suppose to be given to the pet?
But you know what. Balancing in this game is fail. The dev are clueless. I should just accept it for what it is because too many idiots are in charge.
Thank you for the informative response. Based on your example, I applied a particular ranger skill vs another class.
Ranger LD Rapid Fire Vs Warrior Volley
10 secs CD, 3.75 damage coef, 1500 range
vs
10 sec Cd, 3.0 damage coef, 1200 range
So…how do you explain that? Maybe Rapid Fire should be nerfed by 30-40%?
The 30% is based on the “overall” DPS of using all the weapon skills, so a skill by skill comparison won’t tell the whole tale.
Rapid Fire, for example, is really the only “burst” (i.e. high damage and high coef) skill the Ranger has (aside from Maul, which requires melee range) and is currently propping up the entire class in competitive play. A nerf there without a significant overall DPS buff (to the other skills) would result in the class being mostly unusable in PvP where bursting at the right time is what decides fights.
Edit:
You are implying that Warrior’s rifle does the same dps than Ranger’s LB….which isn’t true duel to RF and Barrage and Long Range Shot…..
We do. Our weapon damage is lower than other classes.
I really don’t see it on LB and GS. Actually, I don’t see it on any of their weapons.
How come conditions applied by ranger hit for the same amount as other classes?
You can’t really see it directly in game.
Basically, gear has stats that give EVERYONE the same number of power/condition damage/etc on the stat page, however each individual weapon skill has a “damage amount” that is calculated based on a set amount plus a formula that uses the stat page. Because each individual skill has a unique formula, the stat page increases the amount of damage at different rates for different classes/weapons/numbered skills.
Rangers are given more weight towards the flat damage amount and get less benefit from the stat page numbers which means that a full damage specced Elementalist is going to do a lot more damage than a Ranger wearing the exact same gear simply because going full damage does not give as much of a damage increase to the Ranger as it did the Elementalist.
For example consider this hypothetical comparison (assume both Ranger and Elementalist have 100 Power):
Elementalist Skill #1 does 100 damage plus 25% of Power.
Ranger Skill #1 does 100 damage plus 1% of Power.
The Elementalist will do (100 + (100*.25))=125 DPS
The Ranger will do (100 + (100*.01))=101 DPS
The idea is that the Pet will make up the missing 24 DPS, which it can do in PvE against AI that doesn’t ever move but will never do in PvP, WvW, or newer AI that moves around.
Thank you for the informative response. Based on your example, I applied a particular ranger skill vs another class.
Ranger LD Rapid Fire Vs Warrior Volley
10 secs CD, 3.75 damage coef, 1500 range
vs
10 sec Cd, 3.0 damage coef, 1200 range
So…how do you explain that? Maybe Rapid Fire should be nerfed by 30-40%?
Sorry but steal needs to be baseline 20 secs (16 secs when traited). This is not negotiatable when they basically gave Rev our F1 and they can use it every 5 secs….
My BS crit hit the Scrapper for 900 and auto attack was hitting really low 100-200…but his Electri Whirl hit me for 4K? This is a L2P issue so please let me know what happened. I didn’t have weakness on me.
The trap was bugged. It’s intended to strike enemies only once as it explodes and will be fixed.
Traps still owning me on my thief. No way to get close to the DH. I switched to SB to get some damage on him but he switched to LB and did triple the damage I did.
Magic Toker on Revenant, Caed on Ranger… I have no doubt Sindrener will follow with something viable pretty soon. Surely if those WTS-level all-time-thieves reroll, I can see worse thieves joining the bandwagon.
Which means any thief/daredevil remotely interested in competitive PvP taking their luggage and moving to another class that actually doesn’t give you diarrhea to be effective.
So what is it?
*Disclaimer: I’m actually quite sad being this negative about the class. Nobody wants their favorite class which they’ve invested in for 3 years, ruined for the game mode they actually cared. A big hug to all thieves who feel the same.
I think a damage buff to Backstab and Larcenous Strike would be a good start to put the power thief build into a better spot.
Increase the front damage to 2.4 coef and the backstab to 4.8. Also, revert Mug back so it can crit. Revert CnD and Dancing Dagger damage to what it was at release.
This won’t address the sustain issue but it will address the 1v1 issue. It also bring back D/D.
Jesus, what did you smoke? You’re already taking half of a player’s health with one backstab, do you want to oneshot everything or what?
The same kitten Anet is smoking. Who would’ve imagine double mind wreck/shatter??? But that kitten is in the game. So look, this thief want a piece of that power creep too.
Would it kill Anet to allow players to fully use the Elite spec at 80 and locking the skins/runes/sigils behind HP?
What are they trying to accomplish by gating the elite spec? Gate players from rushing through the content? But masteries are there for that reason…I just don’t get it…
I think a damage buff to Backstab and Larcenous Strike would be a good start to put the power thief build into a better spot.
Increase the front damage to 2.4 coef and the backstab to 4.8. Also, revert Mug back so it can crit. Revert CnD and Dancing Dagger damage to what it was at release.
This won’t address the sustain issue but it will address the 1v1 issue. It also bring back D/D.
I’m just baffled as to why he went ahead and made major improvements to his other elite specs, dragonhunter and daredevil (and they’re pretty strong right now) but for tempest we received no follow up information and we only received gutting nerfs to heat sync and a trait that turns tempest into a boring aura bunker.. While kitten like minor traits and lucid singularity weren’t even touched.
All I want is some justification from Karl about why he didn’t make more drastic changes to the spec like he did for the other two he worked on.. I mean for DH, they even got a whole new skill on one of the virtues and a major buff to all traps.
Just so we are both clear. Daredevil sucks just as much as tempest. Maybe even worst than.
When someone can hard counter your entire trait line, your class mechanic, heal, and 2/3 utilities with just an auto attack. Daredevil better be some good kitten.
There is more then enough content (if they get their crap together and release it .. cough raids cough) to keep everyone busy without time gating the Elites. We have Raids, Guild Halls, New Maps (for all modes), Fractals, Legendaries, Adventures, Events, Masteries, and I’m sure I’ve missed a few. I don’t see how time gating the Elites is productive, how does it affect anyone if you do it as a Necro or a Reaper for example. If they wanted to do something for elites they should have done a quest line of some sort.
The bottom line is, it hurts nothing to have elites playable, the rest of the content is still the same regardless of which class/spec you are using. There is simply no need and all this has done is divide the community and ticked off a lot of players. This is suppose to be an exciting time for GW2 and instead they have managed to turn it into a witch hunt.
It doesn’t work is what is am saying. tested it for several months its not doing what it should. maybe i need more practice. … but so far its not working.
1.) Target the visible thief.
2.) Press “Sick ’Em!” to put the ‘Revealed debuff’ for 6seconds on the thief. -> Thief can’t enter stealth for 6 seconds.
(At the same time your pet gets the buff ‘Sick ’Em!’ for 10 seconds, which increases its damage and movement by 40%. The buff is on your current pet, so don’t swap it.)
You do not need line of sight. As long as you have the thief targeted, it will work. Sic Em will bypass blind, line of sight, dodge, block, and 99% sure invul.
Aloh,
As we continue screaming toward launch, I’ll update this thread with the goings-on for Daredevil. Here’s a few things we’re testing now:
Reduced channel time of Channeled Vigor from 2.25 to 0.75
Vault: Fixed an issue that caused it to not travel its full distance.
Fist Flurry: Reduced cast time by 20%. note: The final strike occurs just prior to 1 second.
Evasive Empowerment: This trait has been renamed to Havoc Master and grants the player 7% bonus damage to enemies within the 360 range threshold.
Impaling Lotus: Increased bleeding duration from 8 to 10 seconds.
Bounding Dodger: In addition to granting access to the Bound dodge ability, the thief will gain 10% bonus physical damage for 4 seconds after dodging.
Lotus Training: In addition to granting access to the Impaling Lotus dodge ability, the thief will gain 10% bonus condition damage for 4 seconds after dodging.
Unhindered combatant: In addition to granting the Dash dodge ability, the thief will gain 10% damage reduction against physical and condition damage.
We like the interaction that Evasive Empowerment had with your endurance bar and wanted to carry it further, but didn’t feel like it could have the desired impact in the adept tier. Thus, each of the grandmaster traits have their own version, geared toward their specific style of play.
Havoc Master has taken its place, as we felt that the line could use a more guaranteed damage increase. For trait mods, we’d like to experiment with Weakening Strikes slightly, adding a secondary to it within its role of debilitation. Options we’re looking at it:
Inflict X (torment, bleeding, something) when you weaken a foe.
or
Receive less damage from weakened foes.
Once again, thanks for your continued constructive feedback. It’s greatly appreciated.
-Karl
Please oh please tell us that Rune of Evasion will be added to Spvp…that would really compliment the DrD spec.
Get a calculator dude d/p thieves have perma stealth without using utilities
With all 3 lowest cooldown traps you’ll get just slightly over 50% stealth uptime
Not to mention traps reveal you because they deal damage…
And 0 breakstun have fun
Heck if they add trapper rune to pvp they could as well fix frost trap missing first tick.
Trap thief are you kidding…
Get a grip dude, because you’re clearly clueless:
1) D/P thieves can’t possibly perma-stealth without using any utilities. Do that, record it and share with us so we see as well. So far, you can only stack 4 stealths, then 2 and you’re out of initiative. When you use your utilities to perma-stealth, you’re basically not being an asset to your team at all and using your only defensive skills to remain unseen. Has absolutely no benefit aside from being permanently invisible.
2) With 3 lowest cooldown traps + Trapper Rune + D/P you CAN get permanent stealth uptime. You can just spam traps in between D/P stealth stacking and remain in stealth.
3) Traps don’t reveal you when they deal damage. Any DIRECT damage reveals you through stealth. Conditions that are applied through traps are not revealing and that’s the WHOLE POINT.
4) Yes, I’ve mentioned there are ways to counter permanent stealth uptime of Trapper rune condition based trap thieves with the use of Reveals and getting damaged inside Black Powder… but there are still ways to counter being stunned as a thief (hint: steal)
Before you lecture people, at least know that what you said isn’t complete BS so you won’t get ridiculed like this in the future.
Reply to your number 1. Do you even play thief? I can perma stealth as D/P without activating a single utility. I’m not going to record it and waste anymore of my time in response to ignorance.
I’d like to know from someone who plays both proficiently. I can say that I play all light armored classes confidently enough to hold on my own 1v1 and contribute positive on team fights
Attempting to learn engie and it’s been….tricky
Engi harder to play by a long shot. They actually have to put efforts into trying to aim their attacks. Ele’s most kitten are aoe and there hit box is big on key abilities.
Here’s a couple other updates that had been in the works and are now in testing.
Vault: Reduced aftercast by 80ms. Added a 500ms evade at the start of the ability.
Distracting Daggers: Projectiles from this ability are now counted as 100% projectile finishers.
Impairing Daggers: Projectiles from this ability are now counted as 100% projectile finishers.
Weakening Strikes: This trait now grants 10% damage reduction when being struck by a weakened foe, in addition to weakening foes on critical hit.
Has the design team factored in the effect of retaliation when using staff. Given that the thief health pool is one of the lowest, retal will wreck thief in team fights.
Assuming a team fight, 3v3. The potential of retal damage is 6,300 over just 1 single AA chain (6 total hits from AA chain). This is compounded by 2,100 damage if we use 1 weakening charge. If its a 5v5, you could see 5,250 retal damage just from 1 WC.
Pistol Whip and Unload have the same issue.
Unless the intent is to avoid combat and backcap then everything is fine. That is one solution to the retal issue.
“Condition damage is applied via hits, so yes, Retaliation affects condition builds the exact same way as Power builds. Retaliation only procs once on a Maul, it only procs once on a Feast of Corruption.
Yeah, ok. Care to explain necro’s CPC, Ele’s auras, warrior’s, warhorn, etc?
That’s my point, those big condition hits? Not instant In fact, large stacks cannot come from instant effects. And if it’s not a big stack? You’re looking at a few hundred DPS from it. If you’re dying to less than 1k DPS, you’re a terrible PvP’er. Is the total amount high? It can be, but the actual DPS isn’t much. This is why people are more concerned with avoiding Maul over Locust Swarm, even though Locust Swarm actually does more total damage (not counting multipliers like Moment of Clarity or Opening Strike).
There are literally three things in the game that work on direct damage, but not conditions: Toughness, Protection, Weakness. Likewise, there are two things that apply to conditions, but not Power damage: cleansing and Resistance. Everything else can protect you equally well from both.
Clearly, you don’t want to listen. This isn’t a case of you just not knowing, it is being blatantly explained to you and you are still ignoring it.
Enjoy being stuck in low leagues.
So endure pain, stone heart, signet of stone, and similar abilities can equally protect me against conditions? And retal? Awesome. Totally going to use those vs condi build now.
Retaliation doesn’t protect you from anything, it just punishes those hitting you. Which, by the way, yes, that applies just as well to condition builds as Power.
You’re right, I did forget specific skills like Berserker Stance and Purging Flames or traits like Unholy Fervor and Diamond Skin.
Oh wait, looks like it’s balancing out again.
Last time I checked, only direct damage proc retal not condition damage so no to your first two sentence.
“There are literally three things in the game that work on direct damage, but not conditions: Toughness, Protection, Weakness. Likewise, there are two things that apply to conditions, but not Power damage: cleansing and Resistance. Everything else can protect you equally well from both.”
“You’re right, I did forget specific skills like Berserker Stance and Purging Flames or traits like Unholy Fervor and Diamond Skin.”
So don’t make blind statement like that when you know it’s not true.
I think your confusing grinding with playing the game, grinding would be doing the same thing for hours on end, Legendaries require you to do a variety of things, also known as playing the game,
Legendaries are not some shiny toy that everybody gets as a participation award, Legendaries are a very difficult and hardcore thing to obtain, and a big part of that is dedicating yourself to completing certain content
Assuming the new legendaries are repeatable (crafting it multiple times), wouldn’t you have to repeat the content multiple times (grind), if you wanted more than one? So what difference does it make if we label it a grind vs “playing the game?”
That’s my point, those big condition hits? Not instant In fact, large stacks cannot come from instant effects. And if it’s not a big stack? You’re looking at a few hundred DPS from it. If you’re dying to less than 1k DPS, you’re a terrible PvP’er. Is the total amount high? It can be, but the actual DPS isn’t much. This is why people are more concerned with avoiding Maul over Locust Swarm, even though Locust Swarm actually does more total damage (not counting multipliers like Moment of Clarity or Opening Strike).
There are literally three things in the game that work on direct damage, but not conditions: Toughness, Protection, Weakness. Likewise, there are two things that apply to conditions, but not Power damage: cleansing and Resistance. Everything else can protect you equally well from both.
Clearly, you don’t want to listen. This isn’t a case of you just not knowing, it is being blatantly explained to you and you are still ignoring it.
Enjoy being stuck in low leagues.
Name one kittening condition skill with over 1 second cast time besides channels, hell name one with 1. I win most of my games as usual, skill>build.
That’s my point, those big condition hits? Not instant In fact, large stacks cannot come from instant effects. And if it’s not a big stack? You’re looking at a few hundred DPS from it. If you’re dying to less than 1k DPS, you’re a terrible PvP’er. Is the total amount high? It can be, but the actual DPS isn’t much. This is why people are more concerned with avoiding Maul over Locust Swarm, even though Locust Swarm actually does more total damage (not counting multipliers like Moment of Clarity or Opening Strike).
There are literally three things in the game that work on direct damage, but not conditions: Toughness, Protection, Weakness. Likewise, there are two things that apply to conditions, but not Power damage: cleansing and Resistance. Everything else can protect you equally well from both.
Clearly, you don’t want to listen. This isn’t a case of you just not knowing, it is being blatantly explained to you and you are still ignoring it.
Enjoy being stuck in low leagues.
So endure pain, stone heart, signet of stone, and similar abilities can equally protect me against conditions? And retal? Awesome. Totally going to use those vs condi build now.
One of the reasons why condition damage is OP is because it ignores retaliation. I suggest retaliation treats condition damage the same way as direct damage. Every tick from a damaging condition will proc retaliation.
Bleed, confusion, torment, burning, and poison. Potential 1500 damage per sec back to the caster.
So I run either D/P or S/D in pvp, pretty standard builds most of the time. Occasionally I’ll mess around with stuff in hotjoin. I have no idea how to counter some mesmers. Even as S/D where I have amazing access to evades, I mess up one time and I literally implode.
It’s basically a choice between two deaths, either I go D/P and hope mesmers I encounter are condi since I can at least stealth away most of their damage however I get destroyed by power mesmer (which is most of them) since I don’t have enough blind/evade to avoid their burst before I can kill them. Or I run S/D and have a better chance to avoid power burst but get wrecked by condition mesmer. Sword 2 can only clear one at a time and when you have high stacks of multiple condis ticking on you, you just melt as a thief even in marauders.
It’s at the point where I don’t even try fighting mesmers at all. I don’t mind if a fight is tough. I am always willing to learn and get better. But there is little to no room to learn when a fight takes < 1 second.
Most of the time when I play thief in spvp I get undefended points, help rez people, help burst down low targets, stay mobile, things thiefs are supposed to do. I will go for a 1v1 on a node if I think I can get it, since most of the time I know I can at least disengage and go to another node. However I am at my wits end on my thief where mesmers are concerned. Please halp =(
Imagine for one instance a mechanic negating an entire line of your build while negating all your defense. That is what these reveals are doing.
Now imagine you try to spec in the other defensive line only to realize it was nerfed to the ground and is not viable.
Finally you take a look at your new elite spec which is supposed to be a defensive trait and save the mutha kittenin day…..Only you then realize it’s not that good.
That’s thief right now. Can great players make it work? Yes they can, but only b/c they are great players. The fact remains if you lose 1v1 to a thief in today’s game then the skill level of that thief is leaps and bounds above yours. I’d compare it to an Professional football team vs your local highschool football team.
AOE fields and minion master? Moa and minion master.
Also, people shouldn’t pretend you can’t counter play the reveal counter play. They are dodgable for the most part. Take a breath and just try to learn how to deal with it before jumping to doomsday is all I’m saying. Reveal as a limited mechanic counter is not innately wrong. Learn the telegraphs and prosper.
Like I said, thief has issues, protecting its stealth is not really one of them. Not to mention, this would be much less of an issue if Shadow Arts was designed to be more active rather than passive. That said, passive things deserve to have direct counters.
You haven’t rolled a thief yet huh?
Currently the reveals are instant 1200 range casts that are not “for the most part dodgable”. The engi trait lock on isn’t a 1 time skill but a spam the nades until you hit
I’m glad you’ve taken up this crusade against current stealth mechanics for thieves. You are quite,the expert on the,subject given that you’ve admitted to not playing thief.
Here’s food for thought. I propose steal removes all built up LF. If you are in DS when you get hit with steal then you are forced out due to running out of LF. Perfectly balanced and on par with reveal changes being made
That’s not far enough. It needs to be a hard counter. How about, “You cannot enter DS for 6 seconds. If currently in DS, you will lose DS form. You will not gain LF for 6 secs.”
My counter to your respond would be stop relying on DS just deal with it.
Imagine for one instance a mechanic negating an entire line of your build while negating all your defense. That is what these reveals are doing.
Now imagine you try to spec in the other defensive line only to realize it was nerfed to the ground and is not viable.
Finally you take a look at your new elite spec which is supposed to be a defensive trait and save the mutha kittenin day…..Only you then realize it’s not that good.
That’s thief right now. Can great players make it work? Yes they can, but only b/c they are great players. The fact remains if you lose 1v1 to a thief in today’s game then the skill level of that thief is leaps and bounds above yours. I’d compare it to an Professional football team vs your local highschool football team.
AOE fields and minion master? Moa and minion master.
Also, people shouldn’t pretend you can’t counter play the reveal counter play. They are dodgable for the most part. Take a breath and just try to learn how to deal with it before jumping to doomsday is all I’m saying. Reveal as a limited mechanic counter is not innately wrong. Learn the telegraphs and prosper.
Like I said, thief has issues, protecting its stealth is not really one of them. Not to mention, this would be much less of an issue if Shadow Arts was designed to be more active rather than passive. That said, passive things deserve to have direct counters.
Don’t pretend you know what you are talking about. They are not dodgable for the most part.
Sic Em – Insta cast
Analyse – Insta cast
Lock On – On hit meaning you can dodge as many times as you want but SOL on hit.
