Guild Wars 2

Nozdrum.2894:

kellian.9712:

Interesting…really interesting. I didn’t realize that a game forum was only for singing the praises of how great everything is. Funny thing about folks like you is, you bury a snide comment like this in the middle of saying you understand my point. So which is it? I thought we were having an adult conversation, but clearly that’s something you’re not to keen on at this point.

If you had bothered to read and comprehend anything I said, you would have understood my point. In a fantasy GAME you should be rewarded for actually doing some HEROIC act, not by some RNG generator. It’s been that way since the dawn of P&P games and the majority of the history of PC gaming. That’s the point, this isn’t some glorious revelation or epiphany here, It’s not new. The reason that system has been around so long is because it works and makes people feel like whatever they acquire has some meaning behind it, even if it’s only in their mind since whatever it is isn’t real anyway.

Could you please stop putting words into my mouth?
I never said that the forum is about “singing the praises of how great everything is”.

Also I am able to understand your point but not agree with it.
You believe that the story is a heroic quest which should give you a precursor. I believe that you believe that this is true, but I don’t agree with this. The story is very very easy and therefor not heroic.
Also you are under assumption that a precursor should be droped for doing something heroic, which yet has to be proofed.
As you have stated many games use some kind of “heroic” act to get a special weapon.
But I never seen this be the case in an mmo. Every mmo I played had the following mindset: You want something good that not everyone has: farm this dungeon 100+ times. It is the core mechanic of every mmo, grinding.
Now you can say that you don’t like that, but I guess you shouldn’t be playing an mmo then.

This is the essence of the problem. ANet created Guild Wars to not be like every other MMO. Why are you trying to defend a system that the developers said they didn’t want? Yes grinding is involved in an MMO. But GW was always centered around innovation. Why not argue in favor of innovation?

My original point for this thread was threefold: that acquiring the precursor is A) based on a disproportionate amount of luck, and that telling others to buy one instead is stupid because the market is dry, and C) both methods above are not “legendary” and people’s argument that legendaries should be this rare is incredibly flawed.

Just because MMO’s use grind instead of a heroic act to acquire a special weapon doesn’t make it right. In any case, that aspect of the MMO is the most archaic compared to other games. MMO’s are unique in that the player themselves create their own hero, play as that hero, determine that hero’s story, etc. The MMO should represent the most heroic moments in game, IT IS the hero’s story. Why backpedal on that into grindmode for a weapon? In my last comment I said that I believe people are still too used to traditional MMOs and thats why they defend the old system. Your post clearly proved me correct.

Nozdrum.2894:

I never said buying stuff from the tp is hard. I said collecting gold is hard.
And if you randomly get a precursor from a mob then it is luck and it was not hard, that is the nature of luck.

And yes completing the story is nice, but not worth a precursor.
I can tell you what happens when you would get precursor. People would just create characters, rush the story and sell it. If you make the precursor soulbound on aquire these people would just delete the character thus making it not soulbound anymore.
I bet I would do this stuff, easy money.

If you wan’t the obtaining of a precursor to be not affected by luck you would have to make it very difficult. It is pretty simple anet wants that only a certain percentage of the playerbase has a precursor, thus if you make it atainable by doing something specific it must be very difficult. What would that imply? People would go to the forums and whine about getting the precursor would be impossible or too difficult and they would wish of another way of obtaining it. Oh wait they are already doing that

In the end a precursor ( or legendary ) is gameplaywise just as good as any other level 80 exotic. If you want something special you have to pay for it. And since a lot of people want this item and it dropes so rarely you will have to pay a lot.

Even if people tried to rush the story, do you know how long that takes? And it’ll drive the precursors down. WHich isn’t a bad thing because the other items that go into crafting a legendary is still time consuming. Honestly, winning a precursor for defeating the dragon is not a bad idea. For those people with an alt for every profession, that’s alot of work on their part to acquire a legendary 8 times. Completing the story has to take longer than farming the money for it, and since ANet’s original intention was not to create a grind machine, this is win-win.

@Konig, the Lyssa’s Muse part was in response to a number of people saying that there might’ve only been 3 gods in Arah at the time of Doric’s plea. I know that Grenth, Kormir, and Abaddon ascended, I was saying that the pantheon’s been there long before Exodus and certainly there at the time of Doric’s plea. It’s also possible that Balthazaar took his position from his father unless he was born into his current position.

Also, I don’t know why I kept writing that Abaddon actually struck down two gods lol. I always knew he was capable but I thought I read it in my research yesterday.

Thalador.4218:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

What I DO know in relation to the Six Gods and the number three, is that there’s three gods presented in the concept art with King Doric pleading to the gods to take back magic. And that, because of said concept art, people have long believed that only three gods were in Arah at the time (usually believed to be Dwayna, Balthazar, and Melandru – given Grenth’s and Lyssa’s influence in Cantha and Vabbi, respectively).

Well, the spear-holding figure on the left definitely has all the womanly assets, so it’s safe to assume that’s Dwayna. I’d say that the robed guy with crossed arms in the center is Grenth, and the third on the right Balthazar. Unless it is Abaddon…

Actually, it would be a lot more dramatic if Abaddon attended Doric’s plea, as the representative of the opposing side, trying to prove his right and dissuade Doric from demanding such “nonsense.”

Its possible that only Abaddon and two others attended Doric’s plea because Abaddon fought and struck down two gods at once before his defeat. However, the time between when he defeated the two gods and when he was smote by the other three or all five cannot be determined. There was supposed to be a big war. Maybe the concept art isn’t canon, who knows. Maybe he struck down the other two at Doric’s plea and then fought the war with the other three (or united five). Or all five attended, Abaddon got mad and left, then the war, he fight two gods in battle, get defeated later.

What can be established is that at the time of Doric’s plea, all six gods walked Tyria. This was 1 BE.

Kormir: “Gods, we beseech you. Hear our prayers.”
<player name>: “We have come where living men should not be. We have fought armies, crossed wastelands and conquered demons.”
<player name>: “Now we are in the heart of Torment. We must destroy Abaddon before he destroys the world. But we cannot battle him alone.”
Lyssa’s Muse: “You are not alone. The gods are always watching.”
Kormir: “Watching? We need your help. We are only mortals, and we challenge a god.”
Lyssa’s Muse: “There was a time when the gods walked the earth. Every thought and achievement was a gift of the gods.”
Lyssa’s Muse: “But now you must realize that our gifts are within you. Dwayna lives in your compassion, Balthazar in your strength.”
Lyssa’s Muse: “Melandru dwells in your harmony, Grenth in your justice.”
Lyssa’s Muse: “And in your inspiration, Lyssa is there.”
Lyssa’s Muse: “The divinity is within you. And so, we give you our blessing. That should suffice for the task ahead.”
Lyssa’s Muse: “And to you, Kormir, a most special gift.”
Lyssa’s Muse: “This is your world, now. This is your decision. You must make the choice that only a mortal could make.”
Kormir: “Our decision? They leave us some words of encouragement and expect us to fight a god?”
<player name>: “The gods said we have a choice. A choice that only a mortal could make.”
Kormir: “Yes. Yes, there is a choice. We can end this. We don’t have to be driven by gods and their avatars. Let us go.”

Lyssa’s muse never said that the gods ascended, only that they walked Tyria. WHich they did prior to the event know as Exodus. I thought this was common knowledge.

@Mechos these are still large assumptions. There is no reason to assume that Kaineng is bountiful. A huge famine wave could have hit the city and they could have rioted against the government. The Emperor could’ve seized the farms in Shing Jea and oppressed the people. Or slaughtered them. Or cannonshelled the farmlands to oblivion in their purge of the Tengu. Who knows? There are so many more ways this scenario can play out.

Also other creatures were unaffected by the Jade Wind: Kurzicks and Luxons. Are they dragon minions? I highly doubt it. And what is a dragon minion? A being constructed by or corrupted by a dragon’s magic. And what’s been established as not being dragon’s magic is the Jade Wind.

Shiro was no average assassin, he was descended from Kaineng Tah, Cantha’s first Emperor and was chosen as the then-current emperor’s bodyguard. No way and Emperor’s gonna pick an average guy to be his personal bodyguard. And until proven otherwise, the Harvest Ceremony is dedicated solely to the gods, the Emperor received a blessing directly from Dwayna herself, with the accompanying Ritualists as witnesses. Shiro corrupted this power through a dark ritual, studied from Abaddon. It has been stated over and over again that the Cataclysm and the Jade Wind are machinations of Abaddon with the intent to hasten Nightfall. The Fortune Teller herself is a demon of Abaddon. Razakel was a demon who convinced Vizier Khilbron (a follower of Abaddon) to unleash the Cataclysm. All three major GW1 plotlines are Abaddon’s schemes.

@Zaxares, ok I can see this happening. I can’t see Cantha attacking Tyria for world domination because that is just pure stupidity. But under the whims of a dragon, I can see. Perhaps Kuunaveng is a dragon champion much like Glint, but becomes corrupted again and in turn corrupts the Emperor.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

All I know is I’ve heard that Factions wasn’t well received by Asians due to Kaineng City (being annoyed that one poor aspect of one culture was made so predominant and that this was a poor representation of Asian cultures, iirc), and similarly neither was the Canthan district of Divinity’s Reach (due to it being a mixture of asian culture influences) which was thus made into the Great Collapse (this same argument was used against Pandaria, I hear).

Its overly silly to me, but basically pride in being represented properly by Westerners more or less makes the audience at large upset if there’s a mixture or prevalence of an aspect they don’t like.

As such, I can see it happening to try to keep the asian audience, however, I see it overall silly. While I don’t think Cantha will be visited anytime soon, it would be foolhardy to remove it completely.

This. I know there is a lot of high tension and deep grudges between Asian countries, but ANet’s vision was always for a mixture of cultures. Prophecies was a mixture of western cultures (although, evil Middle Eastern guy lol), Nightfall was a mixture of African and Middle Eastern cultures, and Factions was a mixture of Asian cultures. I think ANet needs to try to stick to that vision. Maybe clean up Kaineng City a little (although I find it completely justified, its a bloated ugly city, they all look the same)

What’s interesting is that the wiki says that Grenth is a god of vengeance. Perhaps he allows resurrections to give you a chance at revenge?

Grenth is really a classical model of Hades, in that he takes his job very seriously and is just. He comes off as cold but he is not cruel. Maybe he will allow resurrections for favored heroes. It’s not outside of the realm of possibility that he’ll allow the resurrection of the player character because he believes that character will bring balance back to the world (destroy evil). That was basically the reason the envoys in Factions were allowed to revive us, to kill Shiro Tagachi because he wasn’t doing his duties as an envoy.

In game there’s not really a million+ heroes running around. It’s just you and maybe your guild, but it’s not like Grenth favors a million people and keeps reviving them.

As for the fight with Dhuum, although we’re not given alot to go on, it sounds alot like Grenth got fed up with Dhuum’s bs and stormed his tower with the help of his reapers. He plays out like a true Greek Demi-god myth.

CHIPS.6018:

There are hints that Cantha will be the enemy in GW2. They have a huge population and have a city the size of 1/4 of the continent. They expelled all non-humans and oppositions from Cantha. The whole continent is now united and ruled under the iron fist of the " tyrannical and fierce" Emperor Usoku.

While the humans in Tyria has been weakened into a minor state, the humans in Cantha has never been more united.

Here is my prediction:

With Zhaitan gone, the sea ways are opened again. Cantha will first send spies and assassins to study and weaken Tyria. Then Cantha will send a huge invasion fleet to attack Tyria. They would encourage humans in Tyria to join them, to regain the former glory of the human kingdoms by defeating all other races, enslaving Charrs and Asuras alike. The Tyrians would naturally refuse, and war begins.

There will be huge sea (Turtle Ship+Atakebune vs Man of War) and land battles in Tyria for over a year. Eventually the Tyrians and their non-human allies would stop the invasion, and take the fight into Cantha to free the suppressed. Fighting in Kaineng City would involve a lot of urban fighting.

Question is, why? Cantha kicked out not just nonhumans, but non-Canthans too. Why go through this huge war against FIVE united races plus 3 Orders? One of which is a spy and assassination organization. Cantha would be incredibly stupid to go to war. And usually isolationist nations don’t want a part of world affairs anyways.

Gasoline.2570:

SadieDeAtreia.8912:

Bravo OP.

Oh, and don’t expect any comment from Anet about this. Like many other areas of the game where players have voiced their concern… it is blatantly being ignored.

This is the worst part to be honest.

To be honest this isn’t a top priority. Like I said it should be a long term goal. I’m just tired of people defending this broken system when they know that it’s broken

mcarswell.3768:

Vol.5241:

Gregorius.1024:

Vol.5241:

Gregorius.1024:

. A precursor should be guaranteed if you worked for it.

That is why there is an option to buy it on the outpost.

If you hardcore grind for a day, you make 50g. That’s about two weeks worth of hardcore farming, and maybe a month and a half of regular play.

Or if you’re feeling lucky, go gamble.

Except my original argument is that the market is dry. There are no more to buy. That is not a guarantee.

Put a buy order higher than the next one and you’ll find a seller

exactly. sell orders are not indicative of actual supply. if i had a precursor (which unfortunately i don’t) i wouldn’t list it for fear of getting undercut. I’d just watch the buy orders and sell it outright when I saw a buy order high enough.

You’re still defeating the very purpose of a “legendary” item. These are not things that should be bought to wield. Besides, no one wants to wield a precursor, they want to wield a legendary. And I thought not everyone wants it to show off. Some want it for their own character. And even for those who want it for prestige, why to they have to justify my character not having it when my character is fully capable of having it.

In GW1, obsidian armor was prestige. It unfortunately depended on grind and a market, but at least the market was capable of sustaining the amount of players who wanted it. At least it had a decent enough drop rate to warrant farming. But the main reason people wanted the armor was for themselves, not for other players. I don’t care who sees me. I don’t care if my character has cool footsteps. I personally like the weapon, but these elitists apparently have to justify me not having it.

The precursor should be one of the first things you can get. You should be able to run around with it while on your way to crafting the legendary. Why is it so acceptable to buy these things? Why are people justifying RNG and money= legendary? It’s the same backwards grind machine that WoW and other MMOs were caught in and I think people are still used to those old systems.

Vol.5241:

Gregorius.1024:

. A precursor should be guaranteed if you worked for it.

That is why there is an option to buy it on the outpost.

If you hardcore grind for a day, you make 50g. That’s about two weeks worth of hardcore farming, and maybe a month and a half of regular play.

Or if you’re feeling lucky, go gamble.

Except my original argument is that the market is dry. There are no more to buy. That is not a guarantee.

And another reason why precursors are a problem is that lore-wise, buying or RNGing a weapon is not legendary. It makes zero sense. If the precursor was at the end of a very difficult quest-chain/scavenger hunt but the legendary still had the heavy time commitment to craft, it would be fine. Legendaries should have that time and effort commitment. But how can you call them legendary when they’re up for auction?

@Gaudrath This is a game. We play games to be rewarded. A precursor should be guaranteed if you worked for it. The legendary is guaranteed only as long as you gather the mats and the gifts. But the problem is that you’ll have that stupid instance where you have every item minus the precursor. If you try MF, there’s a chance you will never get one. So why did I just waste all this time gathering the materials? If you try to buy it, it turns out there’s only a few on the market.

Look I understand its a time commitment. I’m willing to put that commitment in, I’m not even one of those people who are doing nothing but grind to get a legendary. I told my friends that I will just play the game, not rush it, but I’m gathering everything that I need. What happens when I gather everything but I can’t get a precursor? It’s an unfair rewards system. And who cares if people think “sheesh, another Sunrise guy”. I want Sunrise, it’s the weapon of choice for my character and I put in the time and effort for it. Like I said, that Sunrise will be the only Sunrise in my character’s universe, just like he’s the only hero who led the Pact against Zhaitan. I don’t care about other players

@Guild Warrior, no the asura don’t know about molecules and atoms. They have a crude understanding of them called the Eternal Alchemy, which mainly deals with the magical bonds between objects in the universe rather than physical bonds.

@Legion, yeah I think Cantha and Elona will definitely have guns and engineers. But I don’t think they’ll have airships-level tech. They don’t have the resources nor the diversity of intellectual thinking. Tyria has 3 races capable of higher technology, whereas Cantha kicked out all the humans and the Elonians are fighting the undead. Now that being said, the Order of Whispers has probably just now started leaking technological innovation into Elona since that’s their home country and they know how to get in there.

I doubt Elona will ever be an enemy of Tyria. Right now they’re being crushed by Palawa Joko. Cantha might resist Tyria’s attempts to establish a connection but I’m sure a dragon would change their minds about that.

I always thought that the minion master playstyle should be a mini-zerg in itself. The short recharge is nice. More minions is nicer. I don’t care if they die in 2-3 hits, they should be able to eventually overwhelm an opponent if the necro isn’t dealt with quickly. The necro was intended to be the most attrition based class and minion swarms should reflect this

Oh true, it did seem rather extreme, but hey, religious fanaticism right?

I agree, like I said, I don’t think Cantha will accomplish a whole lot, technologically.

Also the Charr reverse engineered gunpowder from the dwarves. Dwarves first came up with mines and explosives.

Returning to Cantha (and Elona) is a given, but WWII tech would be so dumb. I’m all for the tech we have now, and I argued why the tech we have in GW2 makes sense, but really? A nuke?

I think Cantha would be a little worse off than Tyria, technologically speaking. All these airships and tanks are through a combination of human, asura and charr innovations. Judging by how terribad the bureaucracy of the Four Ministries along with the overzealousness of the Ministry of Purity, I don’t think Cantha gets a whole lot done. Maybe they found a way to reverse-engineer Asuran portal-tech and have engineers of their own, but that’s it.

Complacency, the story of our failure in real life.

True, however, those single women proved to be the undoing of their idol/reign. Svanir was the very first champion of Jormag in recent times, and pretty much the Jesus of their religion. The Flame Legion had oppressed women for centuries and one managed to rally the rest and helped the other legions take them down. I think the Flame legion finds females inferior rather than outright hate them (since, you know, they need to procreate somehow).

Yeah like I said, this isn’t a sexism thread, just a curious note. I’d disagree that the game is sexist towards men. The Sons of Svanir and the Flame Legion have reasons for hating women, reasons that are justified in their eyes and to call the game sexist towards men because of that is unfair. What would be fair would be to call those factions sexist against women. I’d call the game accurate before I would sexist because it takes a far more realistic approach on society.

As for heroic NPCs, Destiny’s Edge used to be 3 males, 3 females, but Snaff died. Most main villains being male is again, a reflection of society because the majority of people in positions of power and those who lean towards short term gain tend to be male.

Is it me or does it seem like more of the NPC risen victims that we’ve come to know and love throughout the story turn out to be female? I don’t have a fully tally in my head and I’m not going to call the game sexist or anything.

Vagelis.9562:

My Norn necro with this sexy tribal tattoo

Some old buried pics ( i use different armor and weapons now)

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/5213/gw044p.jpg
http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/8040/gw050n.jpg
http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/6561/gw040u.jpg

My Norn necro has the exact same tattoos lol! I say norn necro because mine looks intimidating the way she holds her staff. Even while holding an axe or dagger in the main hand and a warhorn it makes her also look like a huntress/shaman. I roll with vigil legs and boots and T2 cultural chest and T1 shoulders

Also mechanics and lore, while often are seen to go hand in hand, should not be considered here. The basilisk example from draxynnic’s post is a poor example because basilisks petrify, and there’s really no way to get unpetrified. Once you’re stone, you’re stone.

The lore in the novels is a better source for this sort of thing. In Edge of Destiny, Eir lifts a 500+ pound statue of basalt around Rata Sum and Lion’s Arch, including up and down stairs.

Unfortunately, now I can’t really explain how Logan saved Rytlocke, but superhuman feats are never unheard in the real world either.

As far as game balance goes, I think player imagination has to come into play. No way a charr and an asura warrior has the same strength. The asuras wear power armor or rely on striking weak points to compensate. Also, if you got hit by a hammer, you’re going down, even in the books if someone from DE got smacked by something it knocked them off balance, so game mechanics are unreliable to rationalize lore

As for my two cents on the overall war: the humans still have the Six Gods. We don’t see their acts all the time, but we do know that prayers are answered, they allow their avatars and doggies to be used in battle. Basically the Gods are an X factor that the other races cannot fathom. How can you consider the possibility that Balthazaar or Kormir could rally a retreating human army and completely turn the tide? What if Melandru decides to turn an army into trees or Grenth has a million undead minions drag humanities foes into the Underworld. Lyssa could make another army devour itself by making them all into illusions of their worst foes. And then Dwayna could just insta-rez all the humans. Point is, the gods play favorites and they love worship. So if one human prays hard enough and gets in dire straits, a god could come down and wreck any army.

I believe the Aesgir story is true, I think he was a norn prodigy, but to have all Norn do this as Oglaf suggests is quite silly.

It’s equally likely that Aesgir could’ve enchanted himself with exceptional magic or roll a massive boulder off the tallest mountain onto Jormag’s face. I will even allow that if he did strike the dragon with only his sword that it was some extremely powerful force of will at the right spot. Basically, all the conditions that would allow such a thing to happen, happened for Aesgir.

However, I don’t think the average norn can perform dental work on even a normal dragon. I’m sure they can all lift at least a car, but I don’t think they can take down entire warbands alone.

Read this with a British accent AND a top hat

except that there’s no trinity in this game. You’re not being very clear on what you want

solidsnake.3906:

Totally agreed with you. The Holy Trinity of mmos is essential.
I thought this new system of Guild Wars 2 was better but everyone wants to be dps in dungeons. Thats why i got so many wipes on dungeons and this is really boring.
The Holy Trinity should back really.

This isn’t Guild Wars 2’s fault so much as it is the psychology of players. Most people want to dps in dungeons to feel kitten and like to see giant numbers emerge from the ends of their sword. However, there are still others who like to adjust their playstyle on the fly. I like throwing conditions down with my necromancer, but that’s not all she does because I like laying a bunch of wells and traps down as I alternate between front and backline fighting. I don’t know what to classify my guardian as because he deals pretty solid damage while staying alive more often than most, he pulls enemies off my allies and supports.

The point is, the holy trinity does not give options. There are specific builds that are run and the team’s cohesion is based on the individual competencies of its members running that build. Yes we see specific builds now, but only because people naturally gravitate towards specialization rather than innovation. Guild Wars 2 fighting is based on positioning, realizing combos, and preventative measures rather than only reactionary measures. Of course there will be PUGs that absolutely suck, PUGs are more attractive to the trinity because you can advertise what you want.

The Holy Trinity is more like a corporation. Each person has one job, they do it, and each job complements the others. However, each person can only do that job and should it fail, the group fails. In addition, that means the professions can only do certain things. In this example, a necromancer can only DPS via conditions or it can only tank.

The GW2 system is more like a freelance enterprise. People get together to perform a job. Again, the job can succeed or fail, but its success depends on how well the group’s members can shift their roles to accommodate any deficiencies. In this example, a necromancer is as it was intended before release, an attrition-based class.

You might say this is a restrictive role, but its not. The necro can use their high health and death shroud to be the last person standing to take down the boss OR revive the party OR absorb punishment to let the rest of the party regroup. A DPS might be able to take down the boss but what if the boss is too strong for him alone? He can’t take hits and doesnt have the health to rez the party or give them time to retreat. He doesn’t have the skills to support himself or them because he’s DPS. A tank necro could help rez the party, but what i there’s not enough time and the mob or boss must fall? He doesn’t have the firepower.

Holy trinity is all kinds of terrible. Limited innovation, too much specialization and no freedom. Alot of people make high DPS builds because its been ingrained in our minds that the Holy trinity was the end all be all. The problems people have with the system now is the same every multiplayer game has: balance. The skills, traits and profession mechanics are all not balanced, so people gravitate to what others have tested and run that. But a game this complex is relatively new, so you have to give the devs a chance to balance the professions more.

Calvary.2946:

With the new changes to the way point system in dungeons, I guess you should go back on the orginal design of GW2 and introduce the tank, dps, and heal into this game. I thought the whole idea to the game in pve was to not have that. I thought we had a game that we could level a heavy armor toon that could do dps and not always have to tank.

As for those who argue for this bad move…The point is we want to log on run a few dugeons and log off, not spend all day looking for the right mix and lots of fails. Also, if you are going to do this then take all the gear away from the guys that didnt have to fight like this in dugeons. After all another point to gw2 was suppose to be gear isnt the mainstay. But now those of us leveling toons have to wvw with people already geared…

I have a good idea, Fire Robert Hrouda, and anyone else who comes in and changes the dynamics of this game. We have WOW if we wanted to play that style.

So your plan is to change the entire game because it doesn’t conform to your playstyle? Specifically altering it so that it caters to dungeon runners? The Holy Trinity was never the original outline of this game, that’s every other MMO. Maybe you preferred WOW better, just don’t bring it here

Major flaw in this theory is the assumption that new god=less powerful. Kormir absorbed all of Abaddon’s power. Comparing her to Tequatl would be like saying she’s Grenth’s minion. That’s a lot of reaching out for the theory

Most people aren’t asking for a change in the requirements but the change in how you acquire the precursor. RNG does not feel legendary. Tracking, say, a dragon champion or the undead corsair captain’s lost treasure in a worldwide scavenger hunt and finding the precursor seems more legendary. Charging into the deepest dungeons for the pieces to assemble the precursor is more legendary than the mystic forge

In addition the ritualist is light armor, medium vitality class. It compensates for this armor by utilizing the ashes as additional armor

My brother and I thought up as a Ritualist that uses the Ashes of the dead like in GW1. Lore-wise these could be simple ashes but the Rit invokes the spirits of the dead to inhabit them. The ashes could give the Ritualist a different skillset and playstyle depending on the ashes. For example, Destructive Was Glaive could give the ritualist an air magic/thief spike playstyle while Anquished was Lingwah could be a condition stacker. The ashes could give the ritualist distinquishing features so that other players could know what the rit is running, although in a chaotic battle who looks at these things?

Also the ritualist can use the ashes to imbue their weapons, like spirit weapon from GW except now they need to differentiate from the Guardians. These skills will change your first five skills, similar to an engineer’s kits.

Speaking of weapons, they will use lightning effects because the GW1 rit used alot of lightning damage. It’s weapons include:
a medium-close range staff= Grasping was Kuurong can enchant your staff for powerful close range attacks and AoE knockdowns and knockbacks, while Protective was Kaolai enchants it to give protection, regeneration and healing. The staff for the Ritualist is not a long ranged weapon. Our Ritualist is a warrior-mage that invokes the spirits of powerful heroes to aid him. Therefore, staff skills 1-2 are close range melee skills.

The Scepter is a long range weapon. This is more focused on single-strike attacks and disruption. Cruel was Daoshen could enchant the scepter to apply vulnerability and stuns. Resilient was Xiko can give you and allies passive regeneration and condition removal that reapplies with each skill.

The last weapon will be the dagger. It is a close range weapon that focuses on punishing attackers. Vengeful was Kahnei allows you to life steal with all your skills and poisons each time you’re struck. Defiant was Xinrae gives you protection and grants weakness each time you are struck.

Each time you enchant your weapon with ashes, the skills are altered. The ashes that I listed that enchant your weapons are chosen as the F1-F4 skills. They’re like attunements but only work for a specific weapon. Therefore, switching between two weapon sets are allowed.

The ashes that change your body, utility skills and alter your playstyle are the utility skills. If you click on them, then your 6-9 skills are changed. Destructive was Glaive (that gives an air magic/thief playstyle) can give you a healing skill that gives retaliation and utility traps that stun and incapacitate foes, allowing you to cut them down with your staff or daggers. Energetic was Lee Sa can give you a swiftness skill, a signet that increases endurance, and a quickness skill.

Gregorius, you say, but what of the other races? Surely they don’t beseech only humans? Well I say to you, due to the stories told of the party that fought the Great Destroyer, the Canthans respect the power of the other races and realize that it would be foolish to neglect that power:
Ferocious Was Pyre
Powerful Was Jora
Cunning Was Vekk
Puissant Was Oola
Leroy Was Stonekin
Valiant Was Riannoc
Tactful Was Talon
Zhed Was Something

So… Thoughts? Non-canthan ashes can be for people like Gwen, Langmar, Keiran, Rurik, Koss, Dunkoro, Talkhora, Livia, Margrid, Mhenlo, Eve, anyone really. Racial ashes would use characters that are important exclusively for that race such as Kalla and Vatlaaw for charr, Olaf and Aesgir for the norn, Oola and Zinn for the asura, and I guess whoever else died for the sylvari?

To OP. We all knew the risks, we all take them. That’s how gambling works but you and others sound seriously depressed over something that does not exist. I understand the time it takes to do legendaries (having attempted myself), but this is something that was intended to be done after playing the game for like 6+ months. Those other people got theirs through any combination of exploits, playing the TP, hardcore farming and luck but you can’t expect to win the lottery based on these success stories. This legendary system is a definite reflection of real life, i.e. buying stuff we don’t need and can’t afford or moaning about it. Anet said they’re going to make it easier to get precursors in the coming months, with the money you spent you could have forged multiple legendaries. Don’t quit the game because the odds are stacked against you, how different is that from life?

RoyHarmon.5398:

Rain King.5914:

Drop Bear.5839:

Oglaf.1074:

Kain Francois.4328:

Another example of very likeable characters are Sieran and Tybalt, but I wanted to focus on Koss since he doesn’t need comedy to be likeable.

Hey! What about Forgal? He’s my favourite of the three! As a Norn Warrior, I felt that my character really grew fond of him and truly saw him as a mentor and role-model. And when he was about die a glorious death so save us all he said something in the nature of

“Keep my Legend alive. Tell my story.”

…I swear that a tear rolled down the cheek of both me and my character! It made the “betrayal” of introducing Trahearne as his replacement taste all the more sour.

Someone forgot Forgal? I shall Old Man them into the ground!

I hope my memory doesn’t fade because in 3o years I’m going to say this to my significant other.

This is the real reason why everyone hates Trahearne: they replace our favorite characters with an apathetic and emotionless dud. I was hoping Trahearne died and I was sad when Forgal and Sieran died.

Oh, come on. If Darth Vader had died at the end of Episode IV, who would have given him a second thought?

Trahearne has to survive, because that’s the only way he can be redeemed. If he died halfway through the story, many players would be relieved. He needs a chance to overcome all the interpersonal challenges before him.

When almost every other likeable character we meet inevitably— and unnecessarily— dies, at least they go out on a high note. I mean, it’s not like our mentors mysteriously go missing and their corpses found in such a position as to suggest they were dealing with the enemy. They’re likeable characters, and they only get more endearing as we see them more.
(And those links are just the ones I remember off the top of my head, not including the mentors.)

Makes me think a writer was having a really bad day (or ten) and they all died of catharsis.

Wait, what point was I trying to make?

I would support what you’re saying here, except Tybalt Leftpaw had the EXACT same character arc, yet was infinitely more endearing than Trahearne. I don’t care much for Trahearne either way, which is a bad thing. He’s just there to move the story along. Tybalt’s insecurities were actually founded and felt real, Trahearne’s felt like they were written to round his character out. He felt like a convenient substitue for the player character.

I didn’t feel like he had authority over me. Contrast that to the character’s of Destiny’s Edge and the individual racial authorities (I. E. Salma, Mother Tree) during the racial storylines, or the mentor’s (Tybalt, Forgal, Sieran) and the Order heads (Almorra, Gixx, MoW/Doern) during the order lines. They all felt like they had a place in Tyria. Trahearne had a place as an expert on Orr, but they should have left them at that. He should’ve be our sidekick instead of the other way around. I don’t have a problem with authority in previous games (Kormir, Togo, Rurik) because the characters felt like they had authority.

RoyHarmon.5398:

Oglaf.1074:

Shizune Fujibayashi.4813:

Kain Francois.4328:

Gregorius.1024:

Kain Francois.4328:

Gregorius.1024:

This doesn’t make her bad, I felt this was a more realistic approach to storytelling as far as her character arch is concerned.

To be fair, Kormir did a lot of things behind the scenes. So I can sorta forgive her.

Trahearne is just unpleasant though. Sure Kormir became a god, but Trahearne is very rude to the player and he thinks the world revolves around himself. I’m not saying that to make fun of him, but because Trahearne’s dialogue actually is incredibly rude. Play through the story again and read what he says if he doesn’t make you fall alseep.

Kormir is miles better than Trahearne in my opinion.

Agreed, I’ll have to catch the instances in Trahearne’s dialogue but he is a bore. I can understand his reservations about leading the pact but there were so many times I wanted to ask him if he would like to go home

>Monsters attack Fort Trinity
>Automatically assumes they want him and only him.

Just an example.

Zhaitan’s army is basically, the guy at the top does 99% of the work, he’s got some semi intelligent underlings but they can’t work together at all. So from Zhaitan’s POV, take out the Pact’s leader and they’ll run around like headless chickens.

Trahearne doesn’t do anything.

The representatives of the Vigil, Whispers and Priory are the folks that get all the practical things done. The rest is up to you.

Zhaitan doesn’t do anything. He just sends minions to do it. I never even saw him before we went up on a deathtrap damaged airship and shot at him for half an hour. In fact, after he flopped off of his perch like the epic supervillain that he was, I never saw him again. Probably never will. I mean, nobody could survive that fall, right? Especially not a giant zombie dragon whose superpower is corpses and dead stuff, right?

Right, Trahearne?

…Hey, has anyone seen Trahearne? He was with us before we left Fort Trinity—oh, kitten! We forgot to bring Trahearne with us to kill the dragon!

Cleansing Orr was his Wyld Hunt, not killing Zhaitan, so he didn’t come…. How convenient Trahearne. And you bring up a good point, I wish we saw Zhaitan at an earlier point in the story before fighting him. Like a failed attack agains’t him, or failing to save a town he’s decimating, something.

I don’t know what you mean. I use a greatsword and tome of wrath for pure damage output. I bring along a consecration to combo or defend myself. If other players are around me I’ll pop a sanctuary while reviving them or just use it for myself for a brief break. There’s also spirit weapons and meditations that have zero group interaction.

The zeal and radiance trait lines almost exclusively effect you. Valor boosts your blocking and meditation skills. Virtues boosts our main profession mechanic. Honor is really the only trait line that supports a group. I don’t think it’s the class, you’re just restricting yourself. I enter battle looking out for myself first and foremost. The group is secondary. You survive longer and it lets you help your group more if they need it.

Kain Francois.4328:

Gregorius.1024:

This doesn’t make her bad, I felt this was a more realistic approach to storytelling as far as her character arch is concerned.

To be fair, Kormir did a lot of things behind the scenes. So I can sorta forgive her.

Trahearne is just unpleasant though. Sure Kormir became a god, but Trahearne is very rude to the player and he thinks the world revolves around himself. I’m not saying that to make fun of him, but because Trahearne’s dialogue actually is incredibly rude. Play through the story again and read what he says if he doesn’t make you fall alseep.

Kormir is miles better than Trahearne in my opinion.

Agreed, I’ll have to catch the instances in Trahearne’s dialogue but he is a bore. I can understand his reservations about leading the pact but there were so many times I wanted to ask him if he would like to go home

Kain Francois.4328:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxmkAoLC6_4

This is why people hate Kormir and love Koss. However, the fact Kormir is miles ahead of Trahearne means a lot because we at least knew who Kormir was. Kormir was also not condescending like Trahearne is throughout Guild Wars 2.

Koss on the other hand is the example of a likeable character even though most people do not use Warrior heroes for AI reasons.

Although Koss came off as an arrogant personality, he was never condescending to the player. Throughout side-quests we learned about his backstory and family confict, learning why he joined the sunspears. And throughout the main plot itself, he acts as a reliable companion with you since the start of the story, injecting his own opinions and ideas of the conflict while not hijacking it.

His very confident, yet deeply honorable personality makes him a very believable character which the player enjoys to travel with.

Because of the polished way which Koss is presented to the player, he is very likeable unlike Kormir and especially unlike Trahearne.

Another example of very likeable characters are Sieran and Tybalt, but I wanted to focus on Koss since he doesn’t need comedy to be likeable.

All well and good but you know what Koss is not? A Warmarshal. Kormir does not have time to be giving her opinions and telling you her backstory. She has a military campaign to run. Players are used to the entire world needing their help. Rurik needed your help escorting refugees. Togo needed your help saving his monastery and protecting against the plague, etc. In both stories you were an exceptional hero/student with great skill. In Nightfall, you’re another soldier. The playing field is even. The only reason you rise up in the ranks is by gaining influence and uncovering Varesh’s conspiracy. Kormir’s really the first person who feels a step above the player. Not even the Vabbian princes, Salma, the Master of Whispers, Kurzick or Luxon Elders feel like they’re in charge. Kormir’s the first character to try to take control of the situation as a leader. I think gamers (especially MMO gamers) had a problem with this. Kormir was a military leader and tactician who, instead of spending time spilling her backstory and feelings, used her diplomacy, knowledge of Nightfall and Elona to run a war. She’s an impersonal character in the middle of a story filled with warbuddies (your heroes) and gets all the credit. Which most leaders do because the war effort tends to fall apart without them. This doesn’t make her bad, I felt this was a more realistic approach to storytelling as far as her character arch is concerned.

Condas.7056:

Gregorius.1024:

Condas.7056:

It may be my build but in PvE I have just a bit more staying power on my Warrior than my Guardian. While my guard still needs a few more exotics to be fully geared (just boots, legs, and gloves), I can’t see that making her much more durable. My guards is a perma protection build with a hammer by the way.

After playing both a lot yesterday I think the main reason is mobility and control. I have a ton of abilities that move me around fast on top of perma swiftness. I also have a lot of control and damage negation on the warrior. I have my shield and endure pain that protects me a lot. The hammer shuts up dangerous mobs for a good duration also.

My guard feels like I am walking around with concrete shoes and while I may be able to take more unguarded hits, the warrior is better in the long run because I can evade more of it.

If that’s the case, take GS on guardian he moves around the battlefield alot.

I have a GS, that is one mobility skill to the Warriors large array of abilities. This compiled with perma swift on me and cripple on the enemy, the guard cannot match that.

I like guardian for kiting groups, using greatsword’s whirling wrath, leap of faith, and binding blade, and using “Retreat” and Sanctuary. Idk why but I stay alive while dealing great damage and last longer than my dungeon groups. Guardian has alot more mobility then most think, but such mobility relies on keeping the enemy off their feet via binding blade, and using hit and runs with the other skills.

Condas.7056:

It may be my build but in PvE I have just a bit more staying power on my Warrior than my Guardian. While my guard still needs a few more exotics to be fully geared (just boots, legs, and gloves), I can’t see that making her much more durable. My guards is a perma protection build with a hammer by the way.

After playing both a lot yesterday I think the main reason is mobility and control. I have a ton of abilities that move me around fast on top of perma swiftness. I also have a lot of control and damage negation on the warrior. I have my shield and endure pain that protects me a lot. The hammer shuts up dangerous mobs for a good duration also.

My guard feels like I am walking around with concrete shoes and while I may be able to take more unguarded hits, the warrior is better in the long run because I can evade more of it.

If that’s the case, take GS on guardian he moves around the battlefield alot.

Lokheit.7943:

I still call the gods “the five” instead of “the six”… Kormir didn’t help you at all and always caused trouble (like… ahem… activating the events for the Nightfall in the first place… which at the end made her a goddess as a reward lol).

Never understood this. She awakened the Apocrypha… And gets blamed for Nightfall? Which Varesh and Kahyet were conspiring to bring forth anyways?

Kormir gets a lot of annoying bad rap. She was investigating the deaths of the miners, which led us to Fahranur. She traveled to Tyria and Cantha to recruit the Zaishen and more heroes. She led us into battle against Kourna TO STOP VARESH FROM SUMMONING HER DARK GOD. She lost her eyes to demons and still guided us into the Realm of Torment. It was her plan to beseech the Five at the Temple of the Six Gods. She jumped into the Abaddon’s escaping energy, which could have ended her life.

Kormir did a ton of legwork, she was balls to the wall, and lived up to her responsibilities as a warrior and a leader. We weren’t blinded and weakened by demons, hence we were able to do more. But Kormir suffered alot and still pulled what weight she could.

I’d prefer a stronger steal mechanic that can interact with the environment. A thief should be able to make the most of improvised weapons

Martin The Brave.8731:

Considering that Koss and his companions took down a God, Id put my vote in for Koss.

This.

I don’t think any characters before or since can top the power of the Nightfall characters (including mine).

How do you guys do it? My mains are a level 80 Guardian and Necro and doomsday, the gods, and the Elder Dragons cannot kill me. But once I touch the warrior, its as if my armor is made of tissue paper. I cannot for the life of me figure it out. How do you stay alive as a warrior? Also, how do you get the most out of using vengeance? I’m level 43 doing the story mode for now

“Practitioners of the dark arts,”
Our skills are dark

“necromancers summon the dead,”
Minions/Death Magic

“wield the power of lost souls,”
Soul Reaping traits
“and literally suck the life force from the enemy.”
Blood Magic/Life steal

“Necromancers feed on life force,”
Part of our main mechanic

“which they can use to bring allies back from the brink or cheat death itself.”
Death Shroud

Also Lich Form is the epitome of spells that deal with death. Its a necro.