What I’m hoping is that it’ll take us no less than 3 new zones to encounter the dragon. Let Season 2 be like an expedition. The early episodes involve Belinda and the Sinister Triad and then after that we decide to push west to see what else is new. In the second zone we find clues to the leyline Mordremoth was feeding on and that leads to the next zone and so on. Basically I want us to explore and have a sense of mystery when going west. And encountering a Bloodstone is a must. White Mantle and Lazarus the Dire is icing on the cake.
Doern is one of the Preceptors for the Order of Whispers, and the member that leads the order in missions regarding Zhaitan
As far as subtle characters with untapped hinted backstory potential, Doern is at the top of the list. Would anyone else like him to feature in the Living Story?
If you have Hall of Monuments, there’s Gnarled Walking Staff
I think people are mad at the weapons and calling them ugly because they don’t look like the old zodiac set. I mean the designs aren’t terrible, being based on the chinese zodiac and from an asian-theme expansion anyways. I guess maybe they could have colored them more like the originals, but the design are fine. oh yeah and rng boxes. Well, what did you expect?
There is some emotional parts even if it isn’t directly tied to the player. The bomb expert dies blowing up the risin ship you have to tell his wife he died. The is a mission where a boyfriend sacrifices himself to save his girlfriend and they he comes back as a risen and you have to slay him. There is alot of emotional stuff that drives people to fight zitan even if it isn’t directed at the player. To point out the npcs would fight him even if the player wasn’t there your role is small in the big picture.
That’s all fine and dandy, but I still didn’t care. I felt bad for that asura, I felt bad for certain people who got turned to Risen, but I was fighting Zhaitan for story completion, not because of a reason. I went after the charr, Titans, Lich, Mursaat, Shiro, Afflicted, Varesh and Abaddon because they wrecked my comrades, they had us on the run, they corrupted my world. I saw firsthand the corruption of the Garden of Seborhim, I saw people I knew turn into Afflicted, I saw the charr summon burning crystals to destroy Ascalon. I understand having a small role in a big picture, but give me a reason to be in that small role.
This is the problem with Guild Wars 2: lots of telling, very little showing. In writing class, they tell us to show as much detail in real time as you can, don’t tell. To make your villain feel dangerous and significant, show how dangerous and significant he is. The best analogy is probably Sauron from Lord of the Rings. Do you remember those awesome scenes when he was a giant floating eye? Nope. But I remember when they showed him step onto the battlefield as his minions started losing and proceed to curbstomp everything in his immediate vicinity. That scene set the tone for the whole movie: “They’re trying to stop a powerful dark lord from returning to life” not “Mr. Goofy Eye wants to rule the world.” Sauron as a physical being is a terrific villain for the 30 seconds that he’s onscreen. Him as a giant eye is a force of nature that would’ve been silly if we didn’t establish beforehand just how powerful he is.
Raising Orr from the ocean is pretty intense, but not enough. Zhaitan couldn’t kill at least one airship in his entrance? Not one? He broke the front of the one we were riding on and that’s it. He didn’t even fly in for another attack. Imagine if in the opening scene of Lord of the Rings, Sauron just knocked one person’s helmet off…. and then got torn to shreds by everyone else including the now helmetless person. That’s what Zhaitan did.
(edited by Gregorius.1024)
First, off congrats Kiel voters. I believe in order to make the Living World a success, we need BOTH new and old lore. Think about it, our world today is defined by both knowledge of our history as well as future progression. Both are necessary to the survival of our species: we need to know what happened in the past (whether it be recent or distant) to note what we like and don’t like. Using this knowledge of the past, we determine which things we want to keep or replicate (democracy, accidental scientific breakthroughs, famous paintings, etc.) and which things we want to archive but never let happen again (slavery, atomic weaponry, lead paint, etc.). At the same time we must think about the future: how to solve hunger, poverty, war, etc. Otherwise, our society stagnates.
There was no right or wrong choice, regarding which type of lore we should receive. Just two different views on how to proceed. Both have great opportunity for NEW things. It all leads to greater knowledge. I am bummed we didnt get the Fall of Abaddon. I’d be really disappointed if this is how people vote from now on: new, new, new, new. Time and again, we’ve gained great insight in uncovering ancient mysteries. Sure, we have an idea of what happened. But to see it is totally different and could’ve lead to NEW content based on what we learned from the Abaddon fractal, just like we might get new content based on Thaumanova. Just because things happened 1, 250 or 100,000 years ago doesn’t mean they have any more or less relevance. That’s why we still research the dinosaurs, prehuman primates, and ancient cultures. They all happened, there’s unknown or unclear reasons for them happening, and they can certainly happen again.
That’s not to say Thaumanova isn’t worthy of research either, I certainly think Abaddon is cooler than a reactor, but knowledge is still knowledge. We could gain more insight into chaos magic, and perhaps get lore on Lyssa!
(edited by Gregorius.1024)
I think the failure behind Zhaitan (and the EDs in general) is that I feel nothing towards the places they attacked. The charr attacked and destroyed MY character’s hometown of Ascalon. Forever after, my Prophecies character became a refugee. Shiro’s Afflicted attacked MY monastery and MY city. My Factions character had to go and save a city already under attack, even dying at some point along the way. Varesh threatened the security of MY home island of Istan. I’m going to go lay a beatdown. I’m winning, oh wait she summons demons, wrecks my forces, maims my commander, destroys my fleet and proceeds to attack MY continent and MY world.
My point is, none of our safe havens are threatened. DR, Hoelbrak, Grove, BC, and Rata Sum are never threatened. Claw Island, Vigil, Priory, and Whispers HQ aren’t really havens, the fact that they get attacked wasn’t so much a surprise as it was meant to be. The dragons are so lazy, so slow, they don’t do anything! Zhaitan should have permanently destroyed a settlement. Jormag, Primordius, and Kralkatorrik should DO something! Even if we just got news of their movements, but make them MOVE! Make them an impending threat.
In GW1, what made the Charr, Mursaat, Shiro, Afflicted, Varesh, and the Destroyers so awesome was that they moved all over the place, destroying things wherever they go. They had a plan, a direction. That’s why the Great Destroyer was kinda just lame, he sat there waiting for us to go to him. Abaddon still has cool points because it was his planning, and its not like he had a choice, being chained by Balthazaar’s handcuffs. The Risen are pretty cool in this game, especially the one time Risen bosses in the story, like the Mouth of Zhaitan and the princes and priests. They have something to do. Zhaitan is soooooooo lazy. In Destiny’s Edge, Kralkatorrik got cool points because he woke up and the first thing he did was take care of business.
@Gmr Leon
I do agree that they messed up when they claimed the Elder Dragons rivalled the gods in power. However, you forget that ED’s only consume magic (except possibly Primordus, he seems to operate on a different level than the others). Therefore it would stand to reason that Zhaitan simply has no residual energy when he dies since he ate it all.
As for the other race’s lore I think the charr and sylvari have the best in terms of balancing current events and backstory. The sylvari are a mystery and the inner workings of the Dream and their origin add to their intrigue, toss in the fact that other Pale Trees exist and you have much and more options to explore. The charr are dealing with an eternal war with Adelbern and while they continue to beat the ghosts back, they unfortunately don’t have unlimited numbers. Ash and Blood legion homelands are still unexplored.
The asura are strange: Primordus kicked them out, but they don’t seem to care. Also, I think the Inquest are too influence and powerful to shut down which can only mean reconciliation or civil war. And the war will be fought because the Inquest are xenophobic, which is against the asuran race’s best interests. I would support Thaumanova if I knew Anet was heading in that direction, but I don’t.
I think the norn’s storyline is the weakest, but I’m hoping that when the Pact goes after Jormag, the norn get their due. There’s alot of cool things going on with them (for one, their Spirits actually show up from time to time, Aesgir’s scroll, the legendary warhorn storyline).
I agree human lore does need to take a backseat, but I think it deserves equal treatment, even though there’s already more of it. The reasons being:
1. Humanity has impacted the world far more than the other 4 races so far. Understanding human lore has been conducive to the Priory’s goals.
2. There are 2 other human kingdoms that need to be brought back into the fold with Tyria. Cantha and Elona can be major players in the war versus the dragons.
3. It’s not unreasonable to think that the Dragon’s awakening could be part of the machinations of an evil god. 2 gods have attempted long-term plans to breakout of their prisons, and one was waging eternal war with his half-brother. The Dragons could be circumstantial or part of a god’s plot to weaken Tyria (this theory is really out there).
Maybe I’m wanting to much of the best things right now. Afterall, Cantha has pushed out all non-humans so that campaign will be dripping with human lore and history, same with Elona.
@Gmr Leon
Still, we couldn’t kill Dhuum, no more than Grenth could. And we still needed the magic of the Seven Reapers which we don’t know ourselves. And as Elidath said, the Great Destroyer’s energy could be harnessed as what Duncan the Black was trying to do. However, it didn’t spiral out of control and threaten anything. It pretty much became a glorified communing point. Abaddon’s power was threatening to wreck the world. You could say Kormir did the same as Duncan, except the gods specifically gave her a gift to do so. And unlike Zhaitan, we did not fight the gods at full power or even weaken them. We got to them just before they were ready to bust free and defeated them in an already weakened state. Zhaitan, we attacked his food source and his scouts and depleted his reinforcements before taking the fight to him. Never once had the Pact experienced a crushing defeat. The Ascalonian refugees were constantly on the run in Prophecies. Togo’s students were racing against a plague. The Sunspears were utterly crushed by demons at Gandara and were in hiding throughout most of Nightfall. The Pact gets a setback here and there but proceeds to utterly steamroll through to Orr and Zhaitan.
I understand that the game is about all 5 races. But the humans took a major step back. All the other racial storylines are far more interesting, the most interesting stuff that happens to the humans is when we uncover Orrian stuff… All the way in Orr….
I do think its time the humans got something to do. They’ve affected the world the most for the past couple thousand years and are now backed into a corner. The other races are really unique and interesting in and of themselves, but what primarily makes humans so awesome is their gods, their history, and their adaptability. I’m not saying to put them on top but give them some limelight in this game.
@Gmr Leon
Each god’s individual wiki page lists what they did:
Dwayna came first and brought humanity with her.
Balthazar came second and proclaimed the world for humanity to take and swept Orr with a cleansing flame.
Melandru came after and terraformed Orr into a green, flowering expanse. She sought to maintain balance in the destruction of the world and urged peace among the races already living there.
An Orrian scroll says that Grenth’s mother is Dwayna, his father a sculptor. All pages on the GW and GW2 wikis say that Grenth was born on Tyria.
No, you can’t turn my words around. We DO know what Zhaitan’s energy could have done: it did NOTHING. He died and that was it, he was no threat to Tyria. Abaddon’s essence could not be destroyed and had to be absorbed by Kormir. Once a dragon dies it is no longer a threat, when a god dies, it’s essence must be absorbed or it will destroy Tyria. We don’t know how to fight the gods, unless they’re bound and weakened and half-mad. That’s how Destiny’s Edge fought Kralkattorik, but we did not fight a weakened Zhaitan. We weakened him throughout the course of the game. Zhaitan had 106 years of eating magical Orrian artifacts to sustain him. And to my knowledge, no Elder Dragon is capable of threatening the world on a global scale. All they can do is attack a small area at a time, and they’re pretty bad at that! Abaddon attacked 3 continents in the span of 5 years, with a long term plan lasting centuries. The Elder Dragons aren’t dumb but they’re also not really intelligent either. Sure they are a threat, but if Dhuum or Menzies or the pantheon of the Six attack Tyria, they will ipmact the world far more than the Dragons do.
(edited by Gregorius.1024)
The same can be said of the Thaumanova fractal, in which the whole debate means nothing.
Ancient history. Compared to Thaumanova, a largely unexplained event that rivals the rise of Kralkattorik for significance in recent history. What? Why? How?
We all know the story of Abbadon, and most importantly, we all know the full extent of it’s results and significance. Also, chaos magic could potentially be used to create temporal magitech for use in living story.
You’re assuming that there is nothing to learn from the magic’s used during the war by the Forgotten and the Margonites, the other Humans at the time or by the gods themselves. Also we could see where the ancient armies and (more importantly) any powerful magical artifacts they could’ve used.
The Guild Wars 1 wiki page for Abaddon does say he was incensed when the gods sealed magic into the bloodstones, so perhaps it was a combination of all of the above.
My reasoning for choosing the Abaddon fractal is this: the Dragons were interesting until we defeated Zhaitan. I’m sorry, there’s really nothing to it anymore. Zhaitan got screwed by a megalaser. The Gods, however, have remained interesting and mysterious since Prophecies came out. Yes we learned more about them, but the extra info never diminished them in the player’s eyes.
And to say that their influence no longer effects Tyria is dead wrong. Why? Lyssa’s muse said it perfectly prior to the final battle against Abaddon:
“The divinity is within you.”
It’s time this debate got a lot more philosophical.
You. A human. GW2 is about all the races now. As to them not being diminished in player’s eyes, that’s subjective. Personally, I think they’re old hat, lore luggage brought on from fantasy RPG traditions that would be better off gone, but that’s never going to happen.
We already know they didn’t create Tyria, we know they didn’t create Glint or even the Forgotten for that matter, and it’s very likely they didn’t create humanity. Without that creative capacity, they’re little more than powerful mages and warriors going about expecting worship, which is utter garbage. The reverence, devotion, and worship are all that really deify them, and only very little else, when considered from a broader racial perspective.
“The divinity is within you” may as well be them fessing up to, oh, hey, sorry, did we never mention you guys could pull this stuff off too if you tried hard enough? We didn’t? Really? Ah man, sorry guys. That explains why you’ve been so pitiful.
Exactly, the god’s divinity is within humanity. Humanity is still on Tyria, therefore the gods still have influence. And just because they left doesn’t mean they’ll stay gone. They could be just uber-powerful mages and such but relatively speaking, all gods are like that. The point is, while they did not create Tyria, they SHAPED Tyria. Dwayna brought humans to Tyria. Balthazaar led the humans to crush all other races. A half-human named Grenth is lord of the Underworld. Abaddon gave magic to the races. Melandru and Dwayna tried to establish peace between all the races. Kormir transcended humanity into divinity. Lyssa is the patron of chaos energy, which is directly tied to the complications of Thaumanova (perhaps she’ll show up). Grenth and Balthazar has wars with Dhuum and Menzies. Who’s to say one of their wars spills into Tyria? Who’s to say Dhuum or Menzies won’t attempt what Abaddon did and attack Tyria?
The Dragons are here, yes. We know how to fight them. We know how to beat them. Yeah, we beat Abaddon, but he was still tired and grouchy from his beatdown from 1100 years beforehand, and chained, no less. And still his god-like essence threatened to destroy Tyria. No, the gods are still very relevant to Tyria.
Also, the literal game mechanic “Favor of the Gods” had magic bringing their statues to life. A bolt of lighting would strike the broken pieces of Dwayna’s statue and bring them together, balthazar would be on flames, Grenth radiated frost, Lyssa was illuminated in golden light, Melandru had water freely flowing from the statue. This would happen during great feats of player (human) achievement that would get their attention
As far as I’m concerned, their physical departure denotes their withdrawal of attention as well. I don’t feel like pulling up a scattering of quotes, but I’m fairly certain there are many instances to be found of people wondering whether the gods still even give a care about them. There’s also the clear cut example of the White Mantle to give evidence to the faltering faith of the people, which it has essentially turned into, a faith, since the gods’ interactions with Tyria have dropped so dramatically that people can actually doubt them and switch to a different following (where for some, it wasn’t a faith as their gods were there before them).
Then explain the presence of the annual appearance of the avatars of Dwayna and Grenth, as well as the occasional favor of the world and avatars summoned at statues and by priests in temples (per GW2 Orrian lore – for Grenth at least)?
The gods physically left the world, but their avatars were constantly present. The faltering faith may have been more based on the fact that the mursaat were among them, the Five Gods weren’t and their avatars appeared at selected placements, which including not when humanity needed help to survive the charr assault.
Just my personal perspective here, I don’t consider the attention of servants to be proper attention of their masters. If you have a chill master and he leaves, you’ll just keep doing whatever because why not until he comes back, including the old habits.
Case in point the Reapers trying to keep control of the Underworld. You could basically say that’s the servants trying to keep the hyperenergetic sadist relative from getting out of the basement asylum and messing up the house. Hard to say whether the master even knew his house came close to being ruined.
At the same time, you have dialogue interaction between the avatars and the Sunspears:
Kormir: “Gods, we beseech you. Hear our prayers.”
<player name>: “We have come where living men should not be. We have fought armies, crossed wastelands and conquered demons.”
<player name>: “Now we are in the heart of Torment. We must destroy Abaddon before he destroys the world. But we cannot battle him alone.”
Lyssa’s Muse: “You are not alone. The gods are always watching.”
Kormir: “Watching? We need your help. We are only mortals, and we challenge a god.”
Lyssa’s Muse: “There was a time when the gods walked the earth. Every thought and achievement was a gift of the gods.”
Lyssa’s Muse: “But now you must realize that our gifts are within you. Dwayna lives in your compassion, Balthazar in your strength.”
Lyssa’s Muse: “Melandru dwells in your harmony, Grenth in your justice.”
Lyssa’s Muse: “And in your inspiration, Lyssa is there.”
Lyssa’s Muse: “The divinity is within you. And so, we give you our blessing. That should suffice for the task ahead.”
Lyssa’s Muse: “And to you, Kormir, a most special gift.”
Lyssa’s Muse: “This is your world, now. This is your decision. You must make the choice that only a mortal could make.”
Kormir: “Our decision? They leave us some words of encouragement and expect us to fight a god?”
<player name>: “The gods said we have a choice. A choice that only a mortal could make.”
Kormir: “Yes. Yes, there is a choice. We can end this. We don’t have to be driven by gods and their avatars. Let us go.”
From the above we can infer:
The Gods were still watching even after they left.
The gifts of the gods lie within humanity.
The avatars are not only representatives of the gods, but it is possible they are a part of the gods themselves. “And so we give you our blessing.” A representative cannot give blessings, only gods can. Therefore, the gods can work through their avatars. Also, since mortals cannot look upon a god’s true form without going blind, they must use these avatars to bypass this.
In conclusion, the gods still engaged with humanity, even after exodus. Also, their divinity is within, humans still have a connection to the gods.
The Guild Wars 1 wiki page for Abaddon does say he was incensed when the gods sealed magic into the bloodstones, so perhaps it was a combination of all of the above.
My reasoning for choosing the Abaddon fractal is this: the Dragons were interesting until we defeated Zhaitan. I’m sorry, there’s really nothing to it anymore. Zhaitan got screwed by a megalaser. The Gods, however, have remained interesting and mysterious since Prophecies came out. Yes we learned more about them, but the extra info never diminished them in the player’s eyes.
And to say that their influence no longer effects Tyria is dead wrong. Why? Lyssa’s muse said it perfectly prior to the final battle against Abaddon:
“The divinity is within you.”
It’s time this debate got a lot more philosophical.
So, renovations are now in order for the Canthan District?
I really like Peacemaker Gezzi’s dye scheme. I have the tier 2 cultural like she does and I believe I figured out some of the dye colors. I believe she uses Blue Rose for the Jewels on the chest and gauntlets. I think she uses Hazel and Pottery dye in her gauntlets, but it’s hard for me to pinpoint everything else! Can you help me fellow asuras?!?!
(edited by Gregorius.1024)
The battle between gods? Or an experiment gone wrong?
I know which one sounds more awesome.
You’ve got it all wrong mate. Its a battle between old (dead or gone) human gods, that dont have anything to do with modern tyria. OR more knowledge about research into the elder dragons and the energies and magic they use, which could be of GREAT value to the whole of tyria. I know which sounds more awesome AND useful
Who’s to say we can’t study ancient Forgotten and Margonite magic from the Fall of Abaddon?
5 gods. 5 players. I’m thinking we each take the form of one of the 5 and pummel Abaddon. Each of us have additional roles, like 4 players need to hold off Margonites while Grenth player summons minion/spirit reinforcements, Lyssa invokes an arcane spell, etc. I want god powers. Specifically I do want to see the 5 in some capacity.
You’re destroying the concept of the profession by doing this. Why not buff the class in certain ways instead? A guardian doesn’t use stealth, but rather charges in to protect others. You wouldn’t give a thief Virtues because they don’t hold morals like a guardian does. You wouldn’t give a warrior illusions just like you wouldn’t give a mesmer heavy armor because that’s not the concept of the profession
Welcome to the game. The guild wars wiki has far more information of events prior to guild wars 2. It’s a great read.
If you’re a human you have access to all of the human racial skills. Choosing a god has no bearing on build performance in game
As to the Static Discharge benefit, I propose gaining the Quickness boon upon using an adrenal skill. Depending how many levels of adrenaline you’ve built up gives you more Quickness. This way the warrior can act like a someone drunk on bloodlust, they’re fighting and fighting, use the adrenaline skill and quickly follow up with a burst of attacks
Or they could do similar endgame content like they did in Nightfall and EoTN, a new foe steps in to absorb the old one’s power. In this case though, Zhaitan is trying to absorb and corrupt the magic within Caladbolg. The Firstborn experience great pain and are forced to protect the dream. The player character and Destiny’s Edge then have to head to the heart of orr itself to deal with Zhaitan while the Pact holds off the rest of its armies. Alot of the Arah dungeon took place in the sky, I believe if Zhaitan called his entire army to his central location to defend, the Pact will have a huge fight on their hands.
I think it was better if Anet didnt release the content that caused zhaitans dead right in the first month of release, they should’ve released a big patch ~ januari-februari with the dead of Zhaitan. Instead of LS cause i’m not a huge fan of that. they could’ve filled up the first content with 1 of zhaitans greatest Generals ala " Morgus Lethe" instead of Killing the bad guy right off the bet!
This.
Defeating a Dragon right off the bat is kinda of lame. There was no failure in the game. In GW1, we failed in defending Ascalon, Shiro killed us, and we were decimated in the attack on Gendara. Thus when our characters made a comeback, the victory felt so much sweeter. A big turning point in Edge of Destiny is when Eir, Zojja, and Snaff fail against the Dragonspawn. It made their victory over the minion so much sweeter when they came with their full guild. I do feel like the game should’ve ended with the defeat of Morgus Lethe’s armada, with additional content being the Assault on Orr in the same way they did War in Kryta.
I would like the Pact to fail. Defeating Zhaitan with sheer military force is a Vigil method not the Priory or the OoW. I think every dragon being defeated the same way would be incredibly lame.
There aren’t any GW2 models yet, the best we have is an artistic rendering of Zomorros’ face. Which doesn’t show translucency either.
While i see a lot of focus on the djinn being a playable race, what if there was a sort of merging of races between humans and djinn. Not inter-species reproduction, but djinn infusing their powers into select humans, and those djinn-infused humans could reproduce with each other but now lack the ability to reproduce with regular humans.
With my bare minimum knowledge of djinn (since all i know really is that they can grant wishes) i have no idea how viable that would be as a race. The idea was to avoid the flying and multiple arms issues, but then the race itself doesn’t become so unique (genasi from dungeons and dragons).
or is it at all possible that the djinn could force a physical change on their race as a whole to better escape palowa jokos reign/wrath?
I can dig this. The Djinn that guard treasures might seek a way to reproduce. They shapeshift into human and copulate with humans to make hybrids. Or the Vabbian princes made a pact with the Djinn. In many instances, the Djinn come to the aid of the Elonians so I can see a hybrid race being something of a possibility
There are some details about being a playable race:
1. Racial capital (Djinns fail)
2. Racial territory, with villages, outposts (Djinns fail)
3. Citizens and economy (Djinns fail)
4. The armor sets must fit and has to have a beliveable dodge-animation (Djinns and centaurs fail)
5. Has to be a social race that often interacts with others and are capable of grouping up with others, from the race or with anyone (this is where Largos fails – skirmishers, avoiding any attention and contact)
6. Has to be unique (this is where kodans and dwarves fail, being similar to the norns and sharing the same territory – the dwarves by mentality and penchant for beer, also looking like mini-norns with their huge muscles and hairs, and the kodan, where’s even a theory about being from the same race as the norns, also, they’ve lost their homelands and are mostly refugees in high-level zones)
To #1 and 2: The Hidden City of Ahdashim could easily be converted to the Djinn’s racial city. Their outlying territories can all be underground as well or the territory just outside the city (Mirror of Lyss).
To #3: Hidden City of Ahdashim has a TON of gold. They have a golden mountain and grind diamonds, rubies, and sapphires into their food. They are probably the wealthiest race in terms of how much stored gold and precious gem caches hidden around Elona.
I… I really want to be a Djinn now.
Prophecies- April 28, 2005
Factions- April 28, 2006
Nightfal- Oct 27, 2006
EotN- Aug 31, 2007
1st War in Kryta update- April 2nd, 2010
10th WiK update July 8th, 2010
Final phase of Winds of Change- Feb 9th, 2012
These…. things…. take…. time….
They’re driven quite mad in death. They’re vengeful spirits that see all living things as intruders. Wouldn’t you want to expel a ghost from a house so you could live in it?
To address the immersion issue, I think they made the mistake of trying to accommodate everything. 5 races? Awesome starting zones and storylines! Didn’t you notice that you start to lose interest once the 3 orders get involved? Not to mention that the original dilemma was that the five races couldn’t work together, THAT didn’t show up in the game. Instead it’s the 3 orders bickering. More on this point later.
They shouldn’t have made us choose between Whispers, Priory, and Vigil. In fact I think they should’ve kept Whispers focused on retaking Elona back from Palawa Joko, keeping them more out of the limelight but trying to get political figures to give them aid. I remember reading that the OoW only believed the dragons could be put to sleep. THAT never turned up in the game. The reason I bring this up is because the Vigil should’ve been what the Pact is now. The Vigil should’ve been the efforts of the 5 races coming together to defeat Zhaitan….. And utterly failing. What was the point of all this arguing between 3 orders when brute force killed the dragon? Why bring up the racial tensions between human and charr, Ebonhawke, the Inquest, etc. if you’re not going to use them at all? What’s the point of calling the dragons unstoppable forces akin to hurricanes or that the Order of Whispers believes in putting them back to slumber or that the Priory is looking for some lost knowledge when all we did was point a thousand guns in Zhaitan’s direction?
GW1 had focus (Except Prophecies but that was a set-up for EotN and Beyond, which were executed beautifully!). But Factions and Nightfall you had singular goals (stop Shiro/Abaddon). You have a group of underdogs that fights alongside you (Togo’s peeps/Sunspears/EotN heroes). Sure you got sidetracked whenever you entered a new location (i.e. Kryta/Jade Sea/Vabbi etc.) but it would always lead back to the main plot. At the end there is a worthy boss.
Diverging plot threads get poorly mishandled in this game, why not lower the level requirement for each Story mission and let us play every story mission (excluding race exclusives). This way we would’ve understood the various artifacts that come into play and would’ve cared if so and so died because we would’ve fought alongside them instead of doing another playthrough with a different character.
The reason I would relegate the OoW to the sidelines and have them work more subtly is because it would give players something to look forward to and talk about. They should have gone with the original Human storyline of 3 ethnicities (Tyrian/Canthan/Elonian) instead of the 3 social statuses. This would’ve set the groundwork for threads that would lead to Cantha and Elona in the future. Prophecies and Factions happened because of Abaddon’s machinations for Nightfall. That’s 2 whole games linked directly to the third. THAT’s how a living story is done. (Although, I don’t think Anet knew they would be making Factions and Nightfall when they first made Prophecies. Still they tied all three games together).
To close this post, I believe the Living Story needs to tie into the next continent. I mean why do we care so much about Charr and Norn refugees now when Elonians have been migrating for years? Because it’s only mentioned on the wikipedia page. Tyria needs a reason to go to Cantha and Elona and I think steps need to be made in those directions.
The “where life goes, so too should you” tenet can simply mean “experience life”. If that leads them down the path of a pirate, they’re experiencing life and adding it to the dream. While Ventari’s Tablet outlined an ideal for the Sylvari to strive for, the race as a whole is as complex and varied as any other. Like humans, they walk different paths of life but in this case, they’re constantly learning.
We need more of the final bosses in the Molten Facility. Fun fight, mobility was the key factor, the second part changed depending on who you killed first. That fight was what I expected of GW2 since launch. Iron Forgeman, Duke Barradin, and The Greater Earth Elementals are also good.
I agree that we should work to continually starve them. Hell, I’d be fine if they were immortal and we could only starve them back into a slumber. As to their backstory, there are so many opportunities wasted on the Arah explorer mode. Nice to know some vague details AFTER we found out how to kill Zhaitan.
It also doesn’t help that you can pew-pew-pew them and they die…. IN THE FIRST GAME! Whatever happened to that whole “the order’s disagree on how to beat them plot?” Why can’t we form the Pact, the Pact assault Zhaitan… and fails? You can’t destroy a tornado, tsunami, or earthquake by firing missiles at it. If an Elder Dragon is a force of nature, why did ANET treat it like a common villain? Assaulting Orr was awesome, the event chain to attack the Temple of Balthazaar is an epic chain. But I think Zhaitan should have taught the Pact that while brute force can stop its minions, it can’t stop a being of magic, no matter how much you starved it. They didn’t even have an Elder Dragon destroy a major city. Yeah it’s army overran Claw Island, but you take it back the next day. The only dragons that seem to make a lasting present impact is DSD and Jormag (Quaggan/ Krait/ Kodan Migrations)
I would love to see more Dredge NPCs rather than enemies.
The only friendly ones to my knowledge is Mr. NoNoNo in Sorrow’s Embrace, and some of them in Forstgorge Sound.
I would like if some Dredge simply walked around in LA, maybe if one of them were a merchant.
I would like to see them walk around too, sadly, they’re moles and can’t tolerate the sun for too long. Them leaving the ground puts them at such a disadvantage survival-wise
Are we really bashing Kormir, when Grenth or Balthazar didn’t even aid us in, you know, staving off invasions to their realms?!!?!?
I think each of the tasks we had to perform in The Realm of Torment, The Underworld, and Fissure of Woe were really minor tasks compared to whatever scope the gods have to deal with. For all we know Kormir could’ve been reversing the effects of Nightfall as we helped cleanse her realm. Balthazar could be fighting Menzies in an eternal battle while we hold his fortress, who knows? Kormir took on the responsibilities annd duties of a GOD, like Grenth did. I’m glad we didn’t get that responsibility because we would’ve probably ended up like Abaddon
We would have done a much better job at being a god than any of the normal gods. We would find an exploit to use in our favor or a build to counteract whatever challenges are set before us. We mortal players are capable of doing more than the gods ever could.
It’s not as simple as pointing in a direction and destroying everything that stands in your way. As a god you have to govern all aspects of your godhood. If you were Lyssa for example, you’d have to govern chaos, beauty, illusion, etc. But how does one go about that? That would probably constitute giving the play psuedo-omniscience in order to understand what you’re governing.
What I mean when I say we’d probably end up like Abaddon, is that he gave magic away too freely, not seeing (or caring) what the consequences were. Our characters, while awesome don’t have the scope to govern reality
The epilogue’s on May 16th, not saying I expect much, but AT LEAST GIVE ANET 4 DAYS….
Might I add that Zhaitan’s blood is poisonous and causes numerous debuffs.
Well then I would say Balthazar is also immune to death, because of the fact that he is all powerful within the realm of war, making him impossible to defeat (except for 1 very poor human being). I don’t fully believe this sentiment though just because of the fact that one on one Abaddon, who only really ruled over illusions, knowledge, and water (that we know of) would have won all out, at least so we are told.
Actually it would make perfect sense. If each god was all-powerful in their respective realms, it would stand to reason that the God of Knowledge possesses the knowledge to defeat other gods.
I still don’t see it happening. Palawa Joko singlehandedly wiped out a human (or transformed) a human civilization. It’s not like the charr, not only did Adelbern bring destruction on his own city, but humans helped spark the charr’s revolution against the Flame Legion 250 years ago. Old hatred die hard, but people don’t forget when they’ve been aided. One of the priorities of the Order of Whispers is to make sure Palawa stays 6 feet under. Elonian refugees will not stand it. This alliance ain’t happening.
Also, alot of this is just speculation because all we know of Kralkie is that he’s blocking passage to Elona.
Even still, the fact that there’s a booth in the Grove that says “Hey look at us but don’t ask questions” is the worst way to recruit for a secret organization
Why does a spy network have a booth in every major city? Why do they freely offer aid out in the open? How come the other factions know that there’s an order that influence the politics and nations of Tyria. The Order of Whispers is not what it used to be.
There could’ve been better ways to implement the Order. For one, I don’t think the base accessed by anyone outside the Order. The Order shouldn’t be so outwardly mobilized like the other two, even when the Pact comes together. I think when the time comes to decide courses of action (around level 20-30), there should only be a Priory and Vigil rep discussing what to do and you get contacted by the Order of Whispers by mail. It’ll tell you their opinions of the mission and if you accept they’ll direct you to an operative that will give you the mission. I think that player characters not associated with the Order should only be aware of the Preceptors (Doern, Valenze, or Halvora) and even then told to keep their silence on the order. Player characters that are in the OoW, however, are aware of the Master and agents disguised in towns and agents that have infiltrated other institutions like the Seraph Guard or the Priory.
Why has the Order of Whispers lost so much of it’s secrecy in GW2?
The waypoint/POI lore idea is awesome, I loved reading about the outposts in GW1.
Books in GW2 should be like the player’s quest books (Flameseeker Prophecies, Togo’s Story, Dungeon Master Guide, Zho’s Journal etc) from GW1. They contained a lot of info while at the same time being compact and quick to get through. You could even turn the pages.
I agree about Tybalt. Love the guy, he’s my favorite mentor of the 3, and one of the better written characters, but there should’ve been more Doern to be honest. That guy reminds me of the old Order of Whispers (which come to think of it, is so out in the open nowadays). I don’t even think Sieran is a good Priory rep to be honest. There’s no character that has the feel of Durmand the Historian from the old game. The Vigil is a bread and butter army faction so I didn’t expect much, but the OoW and Durmand Priory have history connecting to the old game, yet their history or just the feel of them is so unfinished. 250 years have turned an organization that preserves history into a bunch of scientists. I’d like to see mention of that transition. 250 years have turned an organization that no one’s heard about into one that sets up a booth in every major city. End off-topic rant
Well maybe as the former God of Death, Dhuum simply can’t be killed. In the same vein, perhaps now Grenth cannot be killed as a consequence of his station. Dhuum is also known as the Emperor of Oblivion, so maybe he’s incapable of being destroyed.
If not the case, Grenth and Dhuum approach death from different perspectives, and considering that Grenth is also a God of Judgment he may have denied Dhuum death because of reasons.
The Palawa or Sunspear faction idea is terrible considering Joko’s army completely wiped out the Sunspears and dominates all of Elona.
Even ignoring that, the players have no incentive lore-wise to join Joko’s army. Then you have conflicting stories, on one hand you’re the Pact Commander, on the other, you’re assisting a lich whose dominance is at odds with the Pact’s (and definitely all living being’s) interests.
As for a large-scale battleground in which players determine the outcome of the battle, that’s WvW. And the reason there’s no impact on the lore from WvW is because then you’d have to concept two separate maps/scripts/characters/etc. Is so much of a hassle that by the time the battle’s done, players will wait for several months to see the changes in the content. By that time, everyone forgot who one the battle.
On top of all this, no one’s going to want to be heading for their next personal story mission across the border, only to get continually ganked by the other team. Guild Wars is still a heavy PvE game and no way is ANet going to interbreed the two.
I think Elona is better served if Istan is a couple of maps with traditional heart quests. But then Kourna, Vabbi, and the Desolation is all out battle like Orr with the personal story for that campaign woven in.
What I don’t understand is that the model is just a copy of the two models. It doesn’t even look combined. The blade I can understand, since it would be a day/night thing, but the hilt? Come on, that’s just pure laziness on design. At least make it a combined hilt.
I thought the hilt would be combined, given the icon’s is….