Did any of you whining about OCX/SEA being discriminated against even read the initial post? It says prime time will tick some modifier (3 in the example) and the other time slots will tick anywhere from 3 to 1, depending on the population.
If you guys who are saying some server’s OCX/SEA outnumber their prime time then it is likely you will still tick the same as prime time (3). However your blow out ppt from pvding won’t be as high because the scoring will be standardized.
Winning the skirmishes in off peak times will still matter it just won’t decide matches anymore.
Penalizing people because they don’t play during NA is garbage and a huge sign that says “FAILED GAME!”.
Are you going to penalize BG when they have overwhelming numbers during NA? hmm? I thought not.
TLDR: it’s not a “night time” issue. it’s a population balance issue. designing around a set time period that does not reflect the play time of all or some players is unfair and will only server to further the imbalance and alienate more players.
You’re 100% spot on its not that players contributions are worth more its that there’s no matching opponents on the other servers, population mismatches. Its 1 reason why the server model is so poor for this type of mode.
If they are not going to make fundamental changes to the mode to add the flexibility needed then they need to adopt a scoring model that reflects the fact that there might be mismatches because the proposed solution takes no account of it at all. There have been multiple solutions posted in this thread including yours that anet seriously need to look at.
Yep. The problem is that ANET encourages stacking, in every time zone. Until they fix that basic issue, everything else they do is wasted effort. Penalizing OCX / SEA while encouraging NA stacking on BG / TC etc. is the height of hypocrisy.
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Some ideas…
Problem 1: Off peak hours imbalance WvW outcomes should not be determined by WvW player population. Scoring should be balanced based on players actively pursuing goals for victory. It should be reliant on players at any any given time regardless of peak/off hours.
Solution: Scale the points according to players on that map.Say there is 50 players on Team A but only 10 players on Team B. Kills for the Team with 10 players would be worth 5 points but the Team with 50 players would only get 1 point per kill. This scaling point system can be implemented further if needed for objectives and balance.
I’m all for anything that penalizes the cheezy alliances that stack servers. They are the bane of WvW.
But this doesn’t go far enough imo. Anyone that transfers to a stacked server should be given a PERMANENT anti-buff that lessens their xp, gold, items drops and damage output. If you want to cheese through life you should be slapped down.
Personally, I think you’re barking up the wrong tree. I’m not specifically against any of the proposed changes, but they don’t address the core of the issue. “Night capping” is a direct result of uneven coverage – why not attempt to fix that instead of the secondary problems it creates?
Off the top of my head, a simple solution using existing features would be to vary linking over the course of a day. We have 4 matchups for NA. Boil that down to 1-2 during off hours, and “night capping” largely goes away. The servers with little to no coverage will be carried by their linking partners, the linking can control population balance fairly well, and (most importantly) it would create a much more active environment for the people playing in these timezones.The people actively playing in these timezones for months/years obviously dont want a more active environment, or else they wouldnt pvdoor for months/years. If they wanted it they would transfer to other Servers so each Server has an equal amount of Players during night providing “Action”.
But they dont and thus prefer PvDoor.
Oh right, just like BG, TC and other stacked NA servers even out the player base. Give me a break.
In every RvR game since the beginning of time players have stacked when allowed to by the game mechanics. If ANET truly wants competitive play, they will have to force the issue.
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If you penalize OCX / SEA then you need to penalized BG, TC and any other server that stacks for exactly the same reasons. Otherwise it’s just another form of racism.. again.
Not sure if " racism" is the right word. I was not aware they were discriminating against Asurans for their lack of height.. They are discriminating against players based on what time they work, sleep and are able to play. No ones game time is more valuable than anothers, everyone paid for the game just the same. There are solutions that treat all players equally no matter what time they play and if they stopped trying to prop up PvE scoring in a PvP game mode that would help solve the problem by itself.
I definitely agree that there are better solutions than pve scoring. And would personally prefer that. But to be honest, I just don’t see the devs going that far. They seem to be committed to PPT mode. As long as that is true then evening out the player base across time zones and servers is the only way to keep it competitive.
I can see their dilemma. The maps are built around siege tactics that require a lot of PvD. Prioritizing PPK would require a major reworking of the maps and basic systems. That is probably beyond their ability to do in a reasonable time frame given the resources (manpower) they have availabe.
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If you penalize OCX / SEA then you need to penalized BG, TC and any other server that stacks for exactly the same reasons. Otherwise it’s just another form of racism.. again.
Population imbalances are by far the biggest problem in WvW. The biggest zerg ALWAYS wins
Tier 1 players actually believe this
Yeap, a couple of groups can overcome the zerg!, That is why Tier 8 servers regularly rose up to beat the Tier 1 servers /rolls eyes. Lol, it never happened for a reason.
Winning the matchup and winning fights are different. During the TC/Mag matchup our kdr was at one point higher than theirs then only slightly lower at the end of the week. This was while outnumbered.
The rule changes being discussed here have nothing to do with your post. Winning the occasional skirmish against larger numbers is not special. Everyone has done it, on every server.
Your server can not win against BG in the current state of the game, ever, unless you stack your server or BG destacks. Skill does not matter.
This thread is about winning matches and changes to scoring that will allow matches to rotate against ALL servers and be competitive. To do that, every server has to have roughly the same population in WvW. Otherwise all of these changes being discussed are a waste of time. And everyone will be stuck fighting the same servers over and over, just like before. Is that what you want? Sounds like it. Good luck with that.
There are good players on all servers. But the reason BG is winning now is because they have the most players. Period. A strategy with zero skill that ANET has encouraged with their horrible design. And when players feel that stacking is the only strategy that can win, then most of them will go to other games. Like they already have.
A game that encourages stacking to win is a failed game for failed players who can not win in any other way, in any game.
And reduce the number of players who will consider it as worth to stay up all night. Just keep it in mind!
Having to stay up all night because OCX/SEA players would otherwise cap uncontested objectives. Good point.
If you think stacking is such a good idea then why are you against the OCX / SEA players?
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Population imbalances are by far the biggest problem in WvW. The biggest zerg ALWAYS wins
Tier 1 players actually believe this
Yeap, a couple of groups can overcome the zerg!, That is why Tier 8 servers regularly rose up to beat the Tier 1 servers /rolls eyes. Lol, it never happened for a reason.
Just look at the history of BG and JQ. They stayed on top because they had the numbers. JQ didn’t drop from T1 until ANET leaked some info and there was a massive transfer of players OFF of JQ. Ooh and look at all that transfer money ANET got! Cha Ching! Every server that fell from top tiers did so because of populations transfering off. Every server that rises is because of stacking. Period.
Massive disparities in population always win, in all tiers, and I’ve played in most of the tiers. Anyone who claims that numbers don’t matter is fooling themselves.
Teams don’t have to be perfectly even, but if there are massive disparities like we have now, then it is impossible to overcome.
WvW encourages stacking because of it’s bad design. And ANET encourages stacking because of their short sighted love of transfer money. Until they stop their transfer money grab and actively force population balance, everything else being talked about here is a total waste of time.
.
You can’t rely on players to balance things out on their own. EVERY RvR game (especially 2 faction games like WarHammer, Aion, etc etc) has failed when players are allowed to stack one side over another. Fix that basic issue first, then work on the lesser important mechanics.
Until RvR devs admit that basic fact, RvR games will continue to fail.
“In conjunction with population rebalancing..”
What rebalancing?
Population imbalances are by far the biggest problem in WvW. The biggest zerg ALWAYS wins and get all the rewards. That’s not competition and you know it. And yet you barely mention it.
Until you fix the massive stacking and population balance problems all of this other stuff is wasted effort and a bunch of fluff. I refuse to pay for a transfer and many people will not play this game ever again until you start fixing this issue. WvW is a sad joke because you have never dealt with this issue, but instead encourage people to pay you to transfer.
What are you going to to about it?
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Over 90 percent of the voters want an earlier reset time.
The current reset time is too late. What is it about ANET that they continue to go out of their way to screw up WvW? The Saturday reset was a blunder of epic proportions, and their “fix” sucks.
What made the old reset time fun was logging in after work and jumping right into the action. Everyone could play, even the east coast guilds. Now the east coast is shafted.
Fridays use to be fun in WvW.
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First off, being able to team up is part of the design.
Second, double teaming happens a lot less than people claim.
Finally, TC deserves whatever misery they get. Stacking servers is the cheesiest tactic there is in WvW and a blight on the game.
I like the reward tracks. Of course, I wish I could do them faster. Getting a complete set for each armor type will take forever…
My only real complaint is that stacked servers get better progress. I hate that you encourage stacking.
Right now given WvW’s design, stacking servers and zerg play is favored. The basic core design of WvW is all about the zerg. And zergs get the most rewards.
Being farmed by ANET’s version of RvR zerg play is incredibly frustrating and a huge reason why it failed in the first place. And the outnumbered buff doesn’t do anything substantial for players being farmed by huge blobs.
The recent changes have brought some people back and encouraged some pve players to join. But WvW will return to empty maps soon enough if ANET doesn’t figure out how to even out the matches and discourage zergs.
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Love the Alpine maps, but with the recent changes the Desert maps are cool too. I hope they keep them both in regular rotation.
And I don’t say this much (if ever), but thank you ANET for listening.
This thread is so cringe worthy. So many juicy stories about JQ and their OT PPT guilds, their bad commanders, the creepy ts, the community, everything- so much moldy laundry getting aired out I can’t even breathe.
Which is true of every server.
The funny thing is, a huge portion of WvW players never bother with TS or the server forums, don’t care about all this petty stupidity and laugh at everyone who think’s their elite bs matters.
We just log in to play and have fun.
All of this discussion about “leadership” on JQ is pointless.
There aren’t enough players in NA anymore to compete. Too many have left the server or the game.
WvW is a numbers game. The team that fields the most players wins. You may think your “leadership” skills are important but you are fooling yourselves.
Just because your t1 server is falling dosnt mean anet failed. Many servers have risen/fell throughout the 3 years and now it is you guys, maybe it is bg someday, dont blame anet for locking the servers right after all the jq guilds left lol. Your community is what failed, you didnt keep your guilds now you have no coverage.
I have multiple accounts on different servers. I just comment from this account.
It’s just as boring to be on a stacked server with no opposition. Anyone who thinks otherwise doesn’t like true competition.
Do you honestly believe that all these stacked servers fighting empty servers is good for the game? Really?
The basic core of WvW is flawed. They care more about their transfer money than actually creating a competitive environment. Differences in populations is to be expected, but when the design allows for the extreme stacking we have now then that design is garbage. ANET has NEVER addressed these issues in any way that worked, but instead everything they do creates even more disparities.
ANET failed.. again.
They should even out the populations, throw out Glicko and tiers. Rotate matchups to keep things interesting. They system they have now sucks.
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The server merge was implemented extremely poorly. They didn’t look at coverage and they boosted servers that already were stacked. While not addressing the needs of servers who were already low in numbers.
If this “beta” server configuration lasts 3 months then WvW is done for good. The players won’t stick around to be obliterated by overwhelming numbers.
ANET failed.
Reducing night capping just tells players who aren’t in NA that they are lesser human beings. It is a failed attempt to fix a game mode that is flawed to it’s core.
The reason WvW has failed since launch and will always fail is because it is designed for stacking. The zerg always wins.
Everything else ANET does to WvW, while interesting and many times positive, is nothing more than a bandaid incapable of healing the fatal wound that has killed the game mode.
WvW is all about the zerg. ANET hasn’t addressed that basic fact…. ever.
Need to do a better job of evening out the player numbers. T1 and T3 are dominated by BG and FA who have an overwhelming numbers advantage.
If numbers are extremely uneven the undermanned side just stops logging in. Which makes the situation worse and creates a vicious downward spiral.
This has been the main problem with WvW from the beginning. Combining servers like the last reset is a good solution, but it was very poorly implemented and created even worse disparities in populations.
I don’t have a problem with duelers and if I see them I leave them alone. More game modes are good for the game.
Nothing in there about stacking servers to win. It’s been the main problem in WvW from the start.
Apparently they don’t want to give up their transfer dollars.
Until the stacking issue is dealt with all of this other stuff is fluff.
Balance is fine and will adjust its self over time, most of the leading servers are in the lead because of things that predate the merger.
BG is winning because BG only really comes out to play when it actually matters (something that might hurt us in this more volatile system) When BG does wake up they absolutely slaughter everything in their path. Its happened every season, in S2 it took the combined efforts (granted pretty dirty play) of two servers to stop them. They call it hybergate for a reason kids….
TC is winning cause right before the merger they got a big old T1 guild alliance. That alliance would be steam rolling T2 merger or no, they already did it for YB once.
And FA is winning because its a solid T2 server that got matched vs T3 servers. Sure they all got an influx of players but, the stronger server will still be stronger.
Give it a couple weeks to even out. And look at the bright side, while each match has 1 server that is clearly winning, no match has a server that is simple dominating the other 2.
BG is winning this week because of your massive stacking, period.
Atm, BG has many, many, many more players than JQ or YB.. IN EVERY MAP. Just check your queues.
Numbers in WvW is all that has ever been required to win, because that is the way ANET designed it. Skill matters very little WvW. That has been proven every week and every time guilds have stacked servers to move tiers.
And with tactivators, WvW skill is even less important.
When ANET starts penalizing guilds / players for stacking servers then we can talk about skill. Until then the biggest zerg will always win in WvW. Again……. ALWAYS.
Gratz BG for being the biggest Zerg this week. And when ANET opens up transfers again, (after ANET takes a bunch of the rube’s transfer money)… gratz the new zerg server.
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We’re supposed to changing WvW to make fights the priority.
JQ was attacking Stonemist castle with a reasonable sized zerg and there was a suitable sized BG zerg for us to fight (bigger than JQs zerg but not entirely unreasonable).
JQ couldn’t engage with BG for a fight because the airships and fog.
It’s just an orb remodelled.
Chuck the whole Tactivators idea in the bin.
Yeah that fight was so awesome, JQ / IoJ was killing it, had BG’s “hide behind the walls” tactics beat, until BG ran away again (from our smaller numbers), bunkered up, activated their “I Win” button and kicked us out. They had the massive numbers AND the “I Win” button. How cheesy, how kittening kitten (yeah wanted to say something not PC).
Sucked fighting BG this last week. Gazillions of them stacked, just hiding behind Stonekeep’s walls.
If ANET truly wants WvW to survive they have to penalize the “Stackem to WIn!” guilds / servers.
ANET talks about how they don’t want their outnumbered buff to be exploited but the game has for years been exploited by WvW’s “stackem to win” mechanics. Maybe ANET just wants our transfer money.
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If you stack a server you are going to have a queue. Basic MMO’s 101.
Pro: If you stack a server and have a queue, you get what you deserve.
Con: For those of you from lower tiers who now have a queue because you were paired with a stacked server, you have a legitimate complaint.
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As long as guilds try to game the system and stack servers there will be problems in WvW.
Some servers (TC, BG, YB, etc) have looong queues because of the short sighted stacking that many guilds have done. Now the merger / reset has started and they are reaping their rewards… multi-hour queues.
It’s your own fault for not seeing the consequences of your actions. And on top of that, you helped ruin the experience for people who didn’t ask for you to transfer.
Have fun in your pvqueue.
It’s not the players job to regulate and control the populations. That’s Anet’s job. Population has been an issue for a long, long time. It was Anet’s job to fix it. To stop transfers, to force transfers, to shutdown servers, to merge servers. Whatever. But instead they sat back and collected the money while everything went downhill. They had all the metrics and could have easily seen the numbers of people moving to and from each server and stepped in when it became clear that things were out of hand. But they elected to take the transfer fees and act like nothing was wrong.
If you still insist on blaming the players then the lower tier servers are every bit as much to blame as the higher tiers. They are reaping what they sowed by not fostering a healthy and competitive wvw community. Which led many guilds to leave and seek the kind of wvw they wanted at the higher tiers.
If you stack a server and follow the biggest herd of course you are going to be in a queue. It’s not ANET’s job to hold your hand and tell you the facts of life. They have been trying to manage server pops but the zerg guilds keep gaming the system. Now those same zerg guilds sit in a queue and cry about it.
BG is the biggest zerg server, therefore they have the longest queues. You can’t have it both ways. If you want to fight and not be in a long queue then don’t join a zerg server or follow them when they decide to get cute and stack somewhere else.
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Some servers (TC, BG, YB, etc) have looong queues because of the short sighted stacking that many guilds have done. Now the merger / reset has started and they are reaping their rewards… multi-hour queues.
It’s your own fault for not seeing the consequences of your actions. And on top of that, you helped ruin the experience for people who didn’t ask for you to transfer.
Have fun in your pvqueue.
Ouch. An hour? Ick. JQ’s queues are very short. Glad I don’t have to pvqueue.
Jade Quarry has very short queues. Having a great time over here.
Sounds like the other servers got stacked by band wagoners.
I want to thank all the band wagon players that bailed JQ. We have queues like everyone else but at least they are reasonable and being able to play is much more fun than raging on the forums.
/bow
Had fun in the Desert maps last night. Helps when people are there. Still too big though, just too much running to get to the action.
Nobody plays this game anymore. WvW in it’s current state is garbage. WvW had issues before HoT but Hot was the death knell. Most of the wvw players on JQ left a looong time ago. I assume the same is true of BG.
Kudos to YB for pulling together a bunch of people who still play and taking over T1. But the sad truth is T1 was a ghost town before you even got here.
If ANET does fix things then you will see plenty of players come back to JQ and BG. I hope so. WvW was a lot of fun for a while and it has so much potential to be even better.
The new xp systems introduced with HoT has made level 80 more important, since everything up to 80 is a waste of time. But selling level 80’s isn’t the answer.
They need to scrap the garbage introduced with HoT and go back to the old xp system where everything you did mattered for most content. Now the game funnels you into endless grinds doing specific content (whether you want to or not) and doesn’t give you xp for “Playing your way”. Having fun and being free is punished.
It’s extremely boring and why the mass exodus of players since HoT hasn’t abated.
I don’t understand any of this.
If everything up to level 80 is a waste of time, how would scrapping the new system (I assume you mean masteries?) fix it? Everything before then is basically the same as it was, so surely that would just mean it’s all a waste of time?
I also don’t understand what you mean about not everything mattering for most content, and being funnelled into a ‘endless grind doing specific content’. Everything that used to do XP still does and all that XP goes towards your masteries. Sure it’s divided into HoT and Tyrian ones, but it’s still contributing to something.
Before HoT, you could level up in WvW. Before HoT, doing events gave you xp. Before HoT, I didn’t have to do the same content over and over and over and over to learn a stupid mastery just so I could grind the same boring content over and over and over to learn another useless mastery.
Before HoT I played this game all the time, did whatever I wanted, and was rewarded with xp that was useful everywhere.
Now I don’t play anymore. The same is true for many people who hate the new system. This game is pale empty version of what use to be fun and popular. “Play your way” is a lie.
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The new xp systems introduced with HoT has made level 80 more important, since everything up to 80 is a waste of time. But selling level 80’s isn’t the answer.
They need to scrap the garbage introduced with HoT and go back to the old xp system where everything you did mattered for most content. Now the game funnels you into endless grinds doing specific content (whether you want to or not) and doesn’t give you xp for “Playing your way”. Having fun and being free is punished.
It’s extremely boring and why the mass exodus of players since HoT hasn’t abated.
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This game isn’t like other mmo’s. Level 80 isn’t necessary to enjoy the game. PvP doesn’t require it, neither does WvW. And the most of the best PvE is in the leveling zones.
1. Small guild roaming viable. Don’t force us to join the zerg guilds to be effective and get guild benefits.
2. ZERO PvE requirements (even for guild halls, that grind is pathetically bad design – especially for small WvW guilds). PvE should be a choice, not forced upon us.
3. Server pride and a reason to fight for it.
4. Fast closers for all melee and / or better defense from range attacks. Don’t make it strictly a ranged game.
5. Stop reading your metrics. It is obvious you have preconceived notions that have warped your judgement and created false conclusions.
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Talk is cheap..
More details coming April 1st.
“We listened to actual WvW players”
“Small guilds will have a role”
“The new maps are gone and PvE isn’t required!”
Hahahahahahh…..yeah right.
ANET is dying. They aren’t the same company that use to honor the player, now they are all about selling outfits, wings and other useless junk for gems.
WvW will never be good again because ANET has lost their soul. You can thank Mike O’Brien for that.
Yep, the art design for light AND medium armor is absolute CRAP. Most of it is pathetically sad. It looks like a refuse pile. Heavy has good choices though.
GW1’s armor was much better.
My dog could design better armor for light and medium than the garbage choices we have in GW2.
They want you to buy outfits but they suck also. Especially since you can’t mix and match pieces from outfits.
In every way shape and form the “Play as you want” manifesto IS A LIE.
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Aye, the trenchcoat design just looks like a very bad blanket. It billows out and is uglier than the Potato sack design for the Jedi in SWTOR.
They’re just plain ugly. Looks like a failed intern did them.
The trench coats are horribly designed. In action mode they look like dresses. Doing a tough jumping puzzle like Winter’s Day is a real pain because you can’t accurately tell where your feet are landing.
And they just look stupid.
The WvW revamp may make servers irrelevant.
But since the devs are afraid to talk to us or even consider our input, we have no clue what is coming.
Until the devs get a backbone and have a dialogue with us, we are in the dark….. playing other games and caring less and less about ANET and GW2 every day.
Why have you screwed over WvW players for 3 years?
That is the only question WvW players care about. The rest of this crap is fluff.
I hate to sound like a baby but the armor is so… bad that I have trouble playing the medium classes. horrendous horribad choices.
can we have more things similar to magitech armor? I cant really find anything befitting an engi
Hahah, thank you for bringing this up. The medium armor choices in this game SUCK!
It’s impossible to find anything that looks good no matter how much you mix them up. Light armor isn’t much better but at least there are some options that look different. But medium armor is garbage designed by philistines.
Until WvW is freed from it’s craptastic PvE requirements, none of this matters.
WvW didn’t use to require PvE. Then Mike O’Brien got involved and ruined everything.