Guild Wars 2

I think the more important question is : Does it blend?

Samhayn.2385:

Want pve and pvp to mix? Add a wv3 dungeon sorta like DF from DaoC. Till then take the jp and grub and other crap out.

That actually would be awesome. I can taste the QQ already.

Mister Mustard.7203:

Groovy.6749:

Most players chose to play thief not to simply spam 2 on and on and on again…

If by ‘most’ you mean a couple. Those two are busy spamming 3.

Just saying that proves you have no idea how to play a thief. Also it invalidates pretty much all of your QQing.

And just so we’re clear, we do not need you to “fix” what we have said. That is rude and unconstructive.

Killed by enemy player on WvW map?

Working as intended.

Strolling on Karka Island, doing my thieving…

It does depend your spec. It also depends on the dungeon.

I rarely get downed in CoF or TA or even Arah. However CoE is the bane of my thief. Especially the first mob right when you enter the dungeon oO, itactually gets a bit easier after that.

Thieves need room to maneuver and blossom (no puns), sometimes dungeons are a bit tight in that department. After a few runs you get an idea of where is best to position yourself. This helps tremundously.

ekleenex.1654:

Stiv.1820:

ekleenex.1654:

I play a thief and I honestly wouldn’t mind at all if HS got a heavy nerf, or alternatively require more initiative. I used it briefly when I started and haven’t touched it since.

I play a thief as well, no main-hand dagger. A nerf would have no effect me at all. The main reason i don’t want to get rid of it is I love LOLing at “hertseeker noobs” and killing them shortly after. It’s only an issue when you are greatly outnumbered and at that point any burst build is a problem.

I run D/D so it would directly affect me, but any thief worth anything knows there are numerous ways to kill more effectively then HS. I understand why people would complain about it, but it’s easily evaded and counter attacked.

People also complain a lot about perma-stealth thieves, what? It’s not like they spawn and can instantly have permanent stealth, it requires setup and is not easily reset during combat (if you are playing against someone who knows how to play).

On a side note, if you are not level 80 and fully geared with a good understanding of game mechanics, you shouldn’t even be allowed to post a complaint about something being OP, in my opinion.

100% agree with that post.

Most players chose to play thief not to simply spam 2 on and on and on again…
The class has so much more to offer and despite the constant nerfs remains extremely versatile.

Being a bouncing gerbil of (mediocre) death is not my idea of fun.

Jefzor.7145:

We -generally- have very low defensive stats, but with a lot of escape/evade mechanisms.

Pretty much that.

Sure you could invest yourself in some vita or toughness, but it just seems counter productive to me when our strongest weapon is our mobility. Couple that caltrops, traps and/or stealth. Or a couple of teleports. There is also the good old dodge.

Survive by not getting hit, or as little as possible. Personally I think it’s really great training for any class you might want to take on afterwards.

My thief is my main, and after having played that, it’s made any other classes I’ve played feel a lot more agile (within reason of the class lol).

But seriously, play thief for a while then roll a warrior just to see.Then compare yourself to these other warriors. Most are happy to plant themselves, and dodging is also out of the question !

Like I said, what you will learn as a thief will serve you in every other class, ultimately making you a better player.

Thief’ stealth is the same thing as a mesmer’s clones. It confuses people.

And confusion makes certain players heads hurt. Therefore the headache has got to be nerfed.

“TOO MANY THOUGHTS!!!! HULK SMASH”

Seriously, stop expecting logging in spvp and to be able to faceroll everyone by your 3rd or 5th match . Some things have to be learnt with practice. Period.

How many times have thieves been nerfed already ? 4,5 times?Maybe more ? Some of these nerfs were perfectly justified and any honest thieves( lol ) will admit to that.

But from reading this page, it sounds like every single thing a thief can do should be nerfed ?

I’m willing to make you all a bet : when the thief has been nerfed another 4,5 times…you will still see threads in the forums crying “ZOMG THEIF OP NERFFFFF PLZ”.

This isn’t Guild Wars, this is Forum Wars.

I’m so sick of thieves using their abilities , nerf their keyboards !!!!

I’m thief, I stealth and I’m here to stay !

I don’t think it is a problem, I learnt to work around it. Now When I know I’m just about to level up I just go in berserker style, not even bothering to dodge or care for my HP, massive burst oclock, as I know that in a second I will be feeling “SIX FEET TALL !!!!”.

It’s like a super heal that happens once every blue moon (or hour if you are lvl80 ). I know it can be annoying if it messes up your elite skill, but between choosing that…or a super heal, I’ll take the super heal anyday.

Grim West.3194:

Groovy.6749:

Grim West.3194:

ASB.4295:

As long as they can keep the majority of players happy with better gear to work for, they can take all the time they need with new features. It gave them some much needed breathing room.

The majority of the playerbase left.

Not quite sure of how you came to this conclusion. With the servers between high and full, we might be playing a different game.
Struggling to understand how I cleared several DEs chains this afternoon and then went on to clear two paths of CoE…I must have really imagined all these players, and the loot I sold …it must have be imaginary too ! So depraved of playerbase that I’m making them up myself.

Not trying to be a fanboy but before you spout utter nonsense, maybe make sure no one is reading it?

Because the game is working differently than a typical gear treadmill MMO, it is going to behave differently. Its pace will be different.

ANet aren’t fools and I’m pretty sure that they know that the majority of its early players at at lvl80, in full exotics and that some already have alts at the same level.
Hence in order to keep the interest of these players and to keep their trade, something is going to have to be done. Even fractals is becoming all news now.

It’s time for some more juicy content, and they know it. So far within three months, we’ve had the halloween event, the lost shore event and the wintersday event.

If they keep up with this trend of releasing semi-filling regular content, we are good to keep playing. Plus, it won’t be forever until they feel ready enough to tell us about an expansion…whenever that may be.

Lol, you don’t actually believe that High / Full server bs do you? Do you even play the game? Almost Every guild has lost 90 percent or more of their players. The only guilds doing well have to recruit like madmen. Every zone is empty except Lion’s Arch.

A blind man can see that most of the playerbase has left GW2.

There still are a lot of people playing this game. They sold a ton of boxes. But the vast majority of players have moved on.

I thought the very point of my post was that I play the game. I even literally said I just cleared a dungeon and some DEs in Orr.

I think the reason you feel the game feels empty is because since most people are lvl80 already and pretty much fully geared, most players will be found in LA looking for groups or in high level zones carrying out their business.

It sadly is a fact of life for MMOs that once your playerbase levels up, the newbie zones are going to feel deserted. What this means in practice is that the first main wave of players are done leveling, and what they need is need blood.

Like I said every MMO has a pace, right now it’s that time of its life where things are going to feel a bit quiet in the newbie zones. New blood will come through, as it always does.

You’re not going to get the same rush as it was on its release date..until its expansion. An expansion serves two goals : to bring old players back, and to encourage new players to join in.

About the “high/full bs”, yes I do believe it. You do know there is WvW and sPvP. Not all players are doing the same thing in the same zone at the same time.
And guilds dying is pretty much standard. Rare are the guilds who survive from day 1 til the day the game closes its servers.

I’m currently leveling my 3rd alt, sure it is quieter around here than it was that when I leveled my main, but I still see people. If anything exploration helps a fair bit.

The point of events like Halloween, Lost Shores and Wintersday is to keep bringing people in so we are not alone in here
They are doing what they can, and they’re not doing a shabby job of it.

Grim West.3194:

ASB.4295:

As long as they can keep the majority of players happy with better gear to work for, they can take all the time they need with new features. It gave them some much needed breathing room.

The majority of the playerbase left.

Not quite sure of how you came to this conclusion. With the servers between high and full at peak hour, we might be playing a different game.
Struggling to understand how I cleared several DEs chains this afternoon and then went on to clear two paths of CoE…I must have really imagined all these players, and the loot I sold …it must have be imaginary too ! So depraved of playerbase that I’m making them up myself…

Not trying to be a fanboy but before you spout utter nonsense, maybe make sure no one is reading it?

Because the game is working differently than a typical gear treadmill MMO, it is going to behave differently. Its pace will be different.

ANet aren’t fools and I’m pretty sure that they know that the majority of its early players are at lvl80, in full exotics and that some already have alts at the same level.
Hence in order to keep the interest of these players and to keep their trade, something is going to have to be done. Even fractals is becoming old news now.

It’s time for some more juicy content, and they know it. So far within three months, we’ve had the halloween event, the lost shore event and the wintersday event.

If they keep up with this trend of releasing semi-filling regular content, we are good to keep playing. Plus, it won’t be forever until they feel ready enough to tell us about an expansion…whenever that may be.

BUTTERBLUME.3217:

Funny thought:

The person controlling the dusk market posted the twilight sell and buy orders to drive up dusk prices

I would do it if I were him.

Put your orichalcum foil hat on…they’re coming xD

It actually is a possibility lol, which leads me to think that if someone can just afford to waste roughly half a grand in gold….just to spike the prices up for one type of legendary…and find that an acceptable loss, well the economy is screwed. Big time.

Where are the good news to be found when you need them ?

Decrypter.1785:

There is no " Legendary " Armor , just saying

Did you jump in this thread just to say that ? Seriously ?

On another note, I agree with you OP. ANet is doing its best to fight the bot problem.
While they are never going to be able to fully eradicate them, keeping them at bay and limiting their sphere of influence on our gameplay is what any self-respecting game MMO company should be strifing to do.

So kudos ANet, we know it is going to be a never-ending battle. Some times you will have the upper hand, other times the bots will. As long as we know that you are active on the issue and can see you are doing the best you can, then you will have no issues from players like me.

And to those who are constantly dissatisfied with ANet’s performance on the subject, you are NEVER EVER EVER going to get rid of bots in any MMO. Illegal gold selling is too lucrative for some criminals to ignore.
Refusing to support their hard work because there are still some bots around equals to the same as refusing to support your local policeman because there are still some drug dealers in the district. As long as it is safe, they are doing their jobs.

Who would just waste 475g just to rub his legendary in people’s face, knowing that one could/would ever be able to afford this ? That is the $64,000 question here.

Whether we are talking about a genuine player/power trader/hacker/botter/etc.., the guy is still a kitten lol

I bet he is lol’ing at this thread as we speak xD

Are we getting some free loot as a result ?

Just like many others in this thread I grew to think that getting two items was the norm…what the hell lol

Rannulf.9417:

Rune of divinity is one of the most overrated runes in the game.

I remember when you could get a full set for about 6,7 gold. Now you’re luky if you can even get one for that price.

I thought that as well.

Having not played GW1, it took me a while to understand the storyline. In fact, it took me a long, long time to get a grasp of the entire world itself.
No idea why charr and humans dislike each other; what’s that purple line cutting Ascalon in half; why am I killing zombies for more than half of the game….oh wait Zhaitan…“of course how silly of me” >.>

I still didn’t understand what or who destiny’s edge were originally fighting against til halfway through playing my second character lol.

Many of these questions gets answered by just playing and playing attention to the world surrounding you, ANet made a really great job at creating a real genuine atmosphere. But that does not mean a 2 minute video to introduce you into their beautiful world wouldn’t be welcomed.

Legendaries should be account bound, and not soulbound. Does not matter which character out of the 3,4,5,6,etc… that you have has made it, chances are they all contributed and more than likely…YOU contributed. Getting it is an achievement. You want to start another character who can also wield that legendary….then you bloody should be able to!!!

In my opinion the system of legendary is a bit blundered at the moment. I am not talking about its acquisition , but rather what you can do once you have it.
It is technially supposed to take a year+ to get there.

And once you have it after hundreds of hours of commitment…then all you can do is wield it on one character, and that’s it finito!

Let’s assume you got “twilight”, you make another character being able to wield a greatsword …. are you really supposed to go through it ALL over again oO ?
I do no suggest that once you get a legendary, then any characters you make should be able to get the legendary too…but I believe the skin should be unlocked (and made account bound so you can not put in on any rubbish sword and then sell its offspring on the TP for a fortune) for all characters of the same account.

The main reason people chase the legendaries isn’t because of the +1 or +2 in stats, but because they give a sense of prestige to its wielder.

You worked for it, you earned it, you deserve it.

In my opinion, that is why getting a legendary is currently a turn off for me.

Galen Grey.4709:

Gw2 is just about choices, its up to the player to make those choices. Trouble is, seems to me some people are just unable to choose what they want over the best item. Thats where the problem lies imho.

That is a nugget of wisdom right there. We MMO players have had “seek teh bezt l33t til u dai lulz” mentality hammered in our brains for years.

Now playing a game that in no way reinforces that belief, or even encourages it is going to leave a lot of people confused about what to achieve at max level.

It takes a while for some MMO veterans to come to terms with not having to be “the best”, and instead just craft the character that they truly love/want to play and to actually just enjoy the content without feeling the pressure of gear or stats.
Legendary still represents that holy grail in the eyes of many, that “last carrot to get” in order to become the champion of champions, if you like.

I bought GW2 because I was sick of the general grind that comes with MMOs. So when I started to read about the legendary and its requirements, then I pretty much decided on the spot not to bother, to simply enjoy the game and see where I’ll be at in terms of “drops farmed” a year or two down the line.

There are plenty of skins, and possible combinations of weapons/races/classes/genders/armors…to make a truly unique character who looks and feels epic. You don’t need a legendary on your back to validate all this.

Stop trying to make us buy your stuff.

Ecto’s price is still going to fluctuate up and down for a bit, especially during periods of high volumes of people playing hence partaking into the economy, but it is on its way to stability.

Also let’s not forget the recent snowflake exploit, so with that into account, the price of ectos might be a bit up in the air for grabs at the moment, but it is stabilising.

Zeldain.5710:

Groovy.6749:

100% cosmetic. Skin is amazing hence challenging to get. Nothing more to it than that.
You’re never going to get locked out of a dungeon because you weren’t trendy enough.

“Challenging” to get?

Also, aesthetics is subjective… they are not “amazing” to everyone. Very dangerous hanging “end game” on the look of a weapon.

While you might be correct in pointing that hanging end game on the looks of gear can be a dangerous decision… it is the one that ANet made

Also I might have phrased it best when saying “challenging”, let’s just put it as “difficult”.

I want to say warrior, but for some reason I got the feeling you’d be happier with a thief.

You can customize your warrior in many ways, with many different weapons but a warrior is always very obvious about what he is doing in my opinion.

Thief has a much lower survivability (when it gets targeted and doesn’t avoid/dodge the damage) but it is so much more versatile. My first toon was a thief and I still love him.

Why not try a couple of classes for a couple of hours and see if you see how you feel about it ? Best way to have no regrets.

Also a good tip to get an idea of how the class will behave is to hop in the PVP zone (available from the UI tool bar that is the topleft corner of your screen) called Mists, and there your character will be upscaled immediately to level 80. There you can also edit your spec/build freely and you can test it on various NPC dummies (some even come with the basic AI of other classes you can get a very basic idea of what you will be facing).

Hope this helps and welcome back to GW2

Alloy.2839:

Durmand Priory spoiler alert. These last words were spoken by an NPC.

While taking the scenic route from LA to Fort Trinity, traveling through the SE corner of Bloodtide Coast, I passed some risen Krait. One of them said “We are going to plant you next to Sieran”. I thought “What did that Krait just say?”, then turned around and planted all of them. Those who played the Drumand Priory story line will understand.

I thought I was crazy when I heard the same thing.
I planted them too.

Aint no one messes with Sieran, aint no one.

The same point applies. This exotic/legendary is unusual and has a special skin that sets it apart from the rest (by this I mean all the other exotics that people generally have).

You are farming it because it looks amazing. And the devs know this, hence they made getting it really difficult to get.
It is the same as volcanus or others “almost legendary” exotics. Their skins is what make them special. The most likely scenario is that you’re going to use a transmutation skin on it anyway so it matches your spec (it might do already, am just guessing).

100% cosmetic. Skin is amazing hence challenging to get. Nothing more to it than that.
You’re never going to get locked out of a dungeon because you weren’t trendy enough.

I think it boils down to a general misunderstanding.

You see, some people are just confused about what/why the forums are here for.

The forums are simply a place where the players of all servers and all time zones can discuss various aspects of the game (as nerds do, let’s face it, it’s a very nerdy thing but it’s okay…we’re amongst friends :p ) , voice their opinions and give their feedback to the community coordinators who then might pass on general highlights of what is generally discussed to the developing team/publishers/etc (whoever might be concerned by what they find).

However others believe the forums are a place where the developers heed our every words and should bend their game/future decisions to our every whims ;and if they do not, then they are fickle things and we should have never bothered to support the game in the first place :O

Two very different mentalities. One discusses, the other demands.

Can’t people just stop moaning about legendary ?

Yes it will take a lot of time, so stop trying to rush just because you saw one or two people on your server with a legendary already.

This is supposed to take a long, long time. Not 1 month, not 2, not 3. Not 6, and probably a year would be cutting it short.
I’ve got just about 15-25 in most of the items categories (claws, etc..) to make the basic gifts, and that’s from me just playing the game without farming. Stop rushing things, it ruins it.

I personally don’t care for legendary and when I turn around to look at my bank inventory a year or two down the line, then maybe I’ll contemplate it seeing what I’ve got in store.

You don’t need exotic or legendary to be able to clear content,you just want it because it looks cool and makes other players drool with envy.

As Zimbolo above said, it’s probably somekind of loyalty incentive.
Super hardcore players probably already have theirs OR are close to getting it done…then what ?
The game is pretty much over for them. Until new content gets released and then they’ll log off again.
But for the 95% of other players who are between casual and hardcore, this will take much longer AND it was intended for us, so ignore the “crazy hardcores” who dedicated hundreds of hours to their legendary. Getting the coolest weapon in the game through sleep deprivation and/or old exploits isn’t rewarding.
Getting your legendary after a year or two of playing the game IS rewarding. You can get the mats just from playing the game and then banking them. That’s all that’s required of you ! Ah well I forgot, patience is required but surely for something that’s purely cosmetic, it can’t be such a bad thing, no ?
They are supposed to be the bestest of bestest of skins so please lower your expectations and do not scream outrage simply because it isn’t handed out to you immediately on a silver platter.

Two options :
1)Accept it will take a long time so just play the game, and enjoy yourself.

2)Refuse to be patient, and leave the game OR start grinding like a madman.

You’re acting entitled because you are being refused the coolest looking items in the game and cannot stand the idea of having to wait to get there.
Everyone can see that. So please get over yourself and realise ANet made the conscious decision of making legendaries REALLY hard to get. Period.

So, to answer your original question : Yes, it is what is expected of us.

And no amount of forum whining is ever going to change that.

Any form of interest is better than no interest.

Two commanders, one for PVE and one for WvW seems like the most sensible option.

This way PVE can have its commander earned through PVE means (although gold does not mean experience, maybe skilled at farming lol ? although it does depend the content you are farming so it’s not meant to be derogatory) and WvW can have its own commander who’s got a certain level of experience being on the field.

Perfect balance.

And to maybe to make it fair for those who purchased the PVE commander title just to be able to lead in WvW, offer them a one-off opportunity to transform their PVE title into the WvW title ? Actually scratch that, that’d mean you could still end with WvW commanders would , without sounding horrible, don’t have a clue.

Gold rollback ? 100 golems….sweeeeeeeeeet xD

Nayru.3947:

Groovy.6749:

Aelaren.3784:

subscription fees : Seriously?

Absolutely. You know what you are playing for. If the game turn to the direction you don`t like anymore, you stop paying. That actually makes developers take a notice of the ingame problems they can easily ignore in the game that require only initial payment. That is why I personally think monthly sub would be better for GW2.

If you start playing a subscription fee game, then you should know that the grind train stops at every station and it’s the only way to get around. You will only encourage more grind. I obviously can’t back up my statement with any hard evidence (since I can’t predict the future duh) but from experience of playing sub fees games, better get ready to go choo choo because we’re all going to be chasing the dragon…

If your worry is the developers not taking notice of your gems purchase (AKA the GW2 equivalent of a subscription fee)…trust me they do, any semi-decent company keeps a really good eye on their finance, how much is coming in and how much is coming out. If players stop purchasing gems, the devs will notice. Just saying.

Do you even know what a dev is? The devs have nothing to do with gems. Just saying.

If I say publisher, does that make it better for you ?
Devs/Anet/NCsoft whatever….is that all you could retain from the discussion ? If your goal was to be condescending, you were. Congratu-well done !

Rifle for thieves.

Daggers for mesmers.

Pistols for warriors.

Cant comment on other classes as I havent played them.

ShaiHulud.7410:

And what makes you think that changing the way of getting commander’s book by spending badges makes the commander a good player?

You can farm the Jumping Puzzles in WvW every week. Get your badges. Buy the commander’s book. Yay! Another commander.

The commander’s book is ok as it is now!

Players will be able to differentiate a bad commander from a good one pretty quick, don’t worry!

p.s. As in regards to the other players which are mocking commander icon players, it’s mostly a matter of jealousy. They can’t buy the commander’s book because they cant afford to spend 100 g or they simply don’t have that 100 g.

It raises the likelihood that he would be a better commander. Afterall you can become commander without ever setting foot on a WvW map system.

I mean sure, you could end up with “griefer” commanders who just passed hours on end trolling people at the puzzles…but that is the worst case scenario. And what kind of player would do that ?

The current worst case scenario is “I have never set foot in WvW”.

And in regards to you accusing the people raising a valid question of being jealous…are you a PVE commander ? Is that where it is coming from ?

Otherwise, why are you defending a flawed system that essentially means the person leading you into battle has little/no experience whatsoever ?

At least with badges you know the guy has killed players. Sounds like the lesser of two evils. We aren’t voting for politicians here, there will always be room for mistake but to help the odds can’t hurt.

Kindread.9481:

I think they should impliment a “Thumbs Up” rating that you can give people. Once you reach X# of Thumbs Up you are granted either a PvE icon, or a PvP icon. You should only be able to give someone a Thumbs Up if you are grouped, to prevent people from randomly decreasing your Thumbs Up points pool just beacuse they woke up on the wrong side of the bed.

I have yet to run into a “Commander” that was actually leading. I have grouped with a few in dungeons and its the exact same. As Porky said, the Commander icon does not mean anything except that person had 100 gold … and is now likely broke.

While in the best of worlds this probably would be the best solution to determine who has the trust of his/her fellow WvWers , this system would leave room for so much griefing/exploits.
You could imagine rival WvWs trying to take down their competition (although infighting is the best way to lose any battle), or people server hopping just to thumbs down a particularly efficient commander, etc…

Good idea, but if let too unregulated it would be a nightmare.

I have said this before : I am still waiting for the “red tag” commander, purchased with an inane amount of badges of honor. I would follow this guy, no doubt.

But yes, it is currently hard to tell which commander is actually worth the title. We got a couple of “PVE” commanders on our server ( who doesn’t ?!) , and we’ve just learnt to stay clear of him and his strategies. It’s quite funny in WvW team chat when they show up and you got everyone telling the newbies (hate that term but you got to call new people something) to NOT listen/follow them lol

Although to be fair, it’s not entirely the PVE commander’s fault. I mean, it IS ANet who thought it would be a good idea to make the title available only through gold (which isn’t easy to make if you are a dedicated WvWer : aka armor repairs, and when you turn in a profit from caps & DEs you’ll probably spend it on siege equipment…

As I said, by all means let the “blue commander” title be as it is, but please do add a “red commander” or better “warmaster” title for the WvWers earned with badges.

At least this way you can be sure that the guy you are following has killed a kitten load of players and probably been in enough scraps of various kinds to have somewhat of a clue.

Also I’d like to finish by saying that not all blue commanders are bad, in fact quite a few of them got the title through their WvW-orientated guilds, saving money together so that their GM or best suited member/officer can take a more active role in the battle.

Raine.1394:

Groovy.6749:

Aelaren.3784:

subscription fees : Seriously?

Absolutely. You know what you are playing for. If the game turn to the direction you don`t like anymore, you stop paying. That actually makes developers take a notice of the ingame problems they can easily ignore in the game that require only initial payment. That is why I personally think monthly sub would be better for GW2.

If you start playing a subscription fee game, then you should know that the grind train stops at every station and it’s the only way to get around. You will only encourage more grind. I obviously can’t back up my statement with any hard evidence (since I can’t predict the future duh) but from experience of playing sub fees games, better get ready to go choo choo because we’re all going to be chasing the dragon…

If your worry is the developers not taking notice of your gems purchase (AKA the GW2 equivalent of a subscription fee)…trust me they do, any semi-decent company keeps a really good eye on their finance, how much is coming in and how much is coming out. If players stop purchasing gems, the devs will notice. Just saying.

There is no necessary correlation between how a game makes a profit and vertical progression. I assume that your assumption is that WoW is sub and has a gear grind therefore all games that are sub must necessarily have a gear grind. Two completely different concepts; no correlation. It’s perfectly possible to pay a subscription fee for a game like the one described in the GW2 manifesto.

Well that is oversimplying my assumption lol

As I said I never played WoW, but I know they are renowned for their tread mill. Now pretty much all the MMOs I played involved grinding. EQ, EQ2, SWG, RYZOM, SWTOR all had gear grind elements to it, and yes it is the general assumption that the carrot on a stick helps players to keep playing month after month, hence putting money in the pocket of the developers.
Which is why GW2 is so different (in a very good way) by opting for Buy to Play along a cash store to support the microtransaction model.

But yes, I made an assumption. And you are right, it is perfectly possible for a game to be Pay to Play, and still not involve grinding.
But let’s be fair here, many developers have chosen to for the grind factor because it’s been proven to work, and it’s a less risky model to support the game they develop if it is known to be effective.

The correlation between grind and subscription has been well cemented into the genre, that is called popular culture. And it’s a factor that cannot be ignored when it comes to designing/promoting your new game. GW1 and GW2 chose to go against that model by replacing stat grind for aesthetic grind. From this, I would go as far as to say ANet shares my assumption as well.

The purpose of the thread was to discuss how various types of players get to experience the content. At some point in the discussion, the way the game is financed was raised and how it could affect the general direction the game could go in.

I voiced my opinion based on my own experience that a lot of MMOs who go for the subscription model tend to involve grind, hence to combat said grind it doesn’t sound like a good outcome for the game AND the players who dislike grind.

I’m sure there are games that are P2P and do not involve grinding, but they are dwarved by the amount of those who do the exact opposite.

@playboy

I never said it was anything more than my opinion, and I did state I didn not have anything to back it up other than my own personal experience.

I also said that most content can be cleared with rares and that hopefully ANet stick to these requirements. Hardly sounds like someone who is an advocate of aggresive vertical progression, wouldn’t you agree ?

And just to make this clear, I never played WoW. And certainly didn’t get GW2 for a WoW experience otherwise I probably would be playing WoW right now. But I’m guessing making baseless assumptions about other people falls under the opinion category so I’ll let it slide.

To describe GW2 as a grindfest is a joke. You can get the top gear doing a few dungeon runs everyday. 2 weeks to be fully geared in exotics if you take it quite seriously is not a grind. This does not involve any farming of mats OR gold.

If you want to play a game where you hit the final stage in 12 hours, I recommend you buy current single player games. I think you’ll find it’s players like you that do the “crying and complaining”. There is only one type of items that require severe grinding and they are completely optional. If you can’t be asked, then don’t do it. I can’t be asked hence I am not doing it either. Get over yourself.

The game has issues, sure, but it’s not unplayable like some make it out to be.

The bad is strong in this one…rofl

The only people who are clued up enough to know whoneeds a nerf and whom needs a buff are ANet.

Anyone else spouting OP/nerf nonsense is just trying to get his class ahead or does not understand the foundations of other classesyet besides his/her own.

Hi I just met you
And this is crazy
But here’s my stealth stomp
So nerf me maybe ?

DEs can only be fully explored when there are enough players around. In my experience of the game, that excludes roughly 50% of the current zones.

Why is it like is irrelevant to the topic so I’ll skip this.

Maybe if there was a way to keep track of which DEs have been or not been completed, maybe make that an achievement with a title as a reward ?

If you could that for map completion, surely doing this for DEs should be achievable…

Sounds to me like some people do not like the game but are still playing it.

Why ? Because you had different expectations?

I really wanted Duke Nukem 3D to be aweswome. It wasn’t. What did I do ? I shelved it and forgot about it. Instant fix.

Ashontear.9304:

wow…do you guys ever test anything? ever? path 1 is stupidly hard now. first boss spawns 6 elites and they respawn about 10 seconds after death making it pointless to kill them. if you were trying to make another dungeon path that no one will ever do again, good job, you succeeded.

put it back the way it was or watch the dungeon slowly die off.

It’s been like that for a while.

A good way to circumvent the problem is to jump on a ledge that’s inaccessible by the mob and this way you only have to worry about ranged attacks while you burn the boss. This of course would be constituted as an exploit but in the meantime, it’s probably the best way to dodge the wipes that this dungeon inflict on parties in general.

Hope this helps a little bit.

Aelaren.3784:

Well here we have non-sub game and it choo chooed much harder than any sub game I have ever played.

Either way you have lost your objectivity, or it is your first MMO.

Aelaren.3784:

subscription fees : Seriously?

Absolutely. You know what you are playing for. If the game turn to the direction you don`t like anymore, you stop paying. That actually makes developers take a notice of the ingame problems they can easily ignore in the game that require only initial payment. That is why I personally think monthly sub would be better for GW2.

If you start playing a subscription fee game, then you should know that the grind train stops at every station and it’s the only way to get around. You will only encourage more grind. I obviously can’t back up my statement with any hard evidence (since I can’t predict the future duh) but from experience of playing sub fees games, better get ready to go choo choo because we’re all going to be chasing the dragon…

If your worry is the developers not taking notice of your gems purchase (AKA the GW2 equivalent of a subscription fee)…trust me they do, any semi-decent company keeps a really good eye on their finance, how much is coming in and how much is coming out. If players stop purchasing gems, the devs will notice. Just saying.

Aelaren.3784:

This may seem fair to be people that Legendaries should only be carried by the most dedicated and I agree as they are only skins.

Not the case anymore. I was totally indifferent towards legendaries, until Arena announced the new ascended tier, and that only legendary weapons will stay “best in slot” when ascended weapons finally appear. So now a legendary is not a skin but a top-tier best in slot weapon. So..

Whilst what you are saying is technically true, what is the point of legendary at the moment over than showing off ?

All the current content can be cleared with rares.

The only big thing about ascended at this precis moment is the agony resistance, and not the actual stats that it comes with. As long as anet keeps its game the way it currently is, legendary and ascended will have very little impact on the game.

Of course if they completely change their mind and switch from marginal vertical progression to FULL ON GRIND TRAIN ALL JUMP ABOARD!!!! … then we all have been kittened up the kitten

The game has its strenghs and its weaknesses. Come to terms with it and you’ll have a much better time here.

Now about your points :

a) legendary : If it’s too much of a hassle…do not bother with it. I’m not and I feel great about it. Seriously, that is all it takes to solve the issue.

b) exotic gear : it isn’t in the same basket as exotic, like, at all. Sure you can pay to win if that’s what you’re into and get your set right off the TP…or you could do dungeons…. one is considerably cheaper than the other option (also you get loot in the process zomg !!!!11).

c) fractals : yes it was a bit of a design mistake to put a “levels cleared” requirement in the new dungeon. I mean, if I can join explorable mode while having not cleared story on any of the original dungeons, why can’t I do that with the fractals ? I guess the reason is just because it would take the majority of the players a long, long time before they can get close to lvl20 so they may farm the new skins and ascended drops.
Just basically they made the next goal too hard to reach until their next ascended content upgrade whereit will be made much easier…I do hope they know what they are doing and that this does not become a trend, and that it was just a way to save time until they are finished with whatever they are working on.

d) subscription fees : Seriously? You complain that a game is too grindy for your taste and your solution is to play them monthly ??? Your logic is so flawed it’s beyond words.
Don’t you know that the subscription model REALLY is all about chasing the carrot on a stick, just so players keep playing months after months after months…? Which equals to $$$ for the developers.

The game is fine as it is.

Why did you necro that thread bro ?

Erasmus.1624:

It costed probably about 450~ or so gold to post that sell order of 9.5k for Twilight, if anyone’s wondering.

Thank you, I was wondering how much did it cost the guy just so he could rub it in our faces ?

So he wasted shy of 500g, just to “troll” several servers sharing the same TP ?

I don’t want to be the guy who screams “hacker” bu seriously lol ? I cannot possibly understand why a smart, wealthy trader would put up a item on the market that he knows nobody will ever be able to purchase and waste half a grand in the process ???

It smells funny to me.