Guild Wars 2

Embrace The Bold.7619:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Gaile Gray:

Ok, talked it over with the moderator team and because the last few pages have been pretty valueless (“100 pages!” and so forth) and because no one will read a 100-page thread, we are going to lock this thread and start a new one.

Please see Part 2 to add posts of value and meaning.

Valueless she says, pah! She doesn’t know the deeper meaning of this valueless talk.

We shall bring the highest non-quality content! Anyway today, or rather last night, I found out I need more SEA/EU dungeon buddies on NA servers! It’s so lonely staying up late I wish NA EU servers could mix more. Why can’t we btw?

I think the main reason is the lag issue. Or maybe the NSA doesn’t want to have more traffic they have to spy on. :P
In the end it’s because of the same reason we can’t have mounts: “Because GW2 isn’t WoW!” That argument apparently fits every time… somehow.

I like the new title, that’s true commitment to the discussion!

Gaile Gray:

Ok, talked it over with the moderator team and because the last few pages have been pretty valueless (“100 pages!” and so forth) and because no one will read a 100-page thread, we are going to lock this thread and start a new one.

Please see Part 2 to add posts of value and meaning.

Valueless she says, pah! She doesn’t know the deeper meaning of this valueless talk.

Onward, my minions!

Rasimir.6239:

Anyway, no matter where you post or talk, you won’t be able to make everyone around you “see the light” and agree that your point of view is the right one. Some people won’t appreciate the dungeon meta because it takes them out of their comfort zone and requires an amount of adaptation and practice that they are not willing (or even interested) in investing, because it defeats their purpose of playing this game. Some people will actively try to discredit/remove the dungeon meta because they feel (not necessarily based in logic) their own playstyle impacted in a way they don’t enjoy. Some people just try to get a rise out of provocing others.

Well, my standpoint on that matter is that if someone comes to the forums with a flawed opinion and noone is there to show him that he’s wrong, then he will think he’s right. He will keep talking about that and more and more people will start to believe him until ANet thinks he represents a majority.
Now there are some phrases up for interpretation, like how do we judge if someone’s opinion is flawed. I would think ANet would have to take that job, but since they don’t, we have to do that. And I think the most optimal way to run dungeons should be the “meta”, which it is.
And let’s not forget that this already happened. I can recall that the explorable path should be the challenge in the game. The fact that most storymodes are more challenging shows that this didn’t work out. But if ANet would try to meet their goal they had upon launch, they would be flamed pretty hard by all casual players.

GrimmR.3541:

Combatdesign is perfectly alright, it are the encounters who could need a rework.

“Combat design is perfectly fine, the encounters are the ones in need of a rework.”

Just a typo, I agree with you on all points though.

I don’t know what he is talking about, I have literally no clue.
He wants to kill of the zerker meta and names as examples the last boss of the Dredge fractal and Tequatl? I really don’t get it.

Leo G.4501:

But having more or less drawbacks isn’t the reason why players gravitate to the same strategies, it’s just a matter of what does the most damage which shots the notion that range would suddenly become the most optimal in the foot.

I hope you’re not suggesting that ranged weapons should do the same damage as melee weapons, because that would just be stupid. If you’re not then we’re done because there is no problem with melee doing more damage as ranged weapons. If you still want your ranged encounters, ask the devs to create such encounters.

Leo G.4501:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Leo G.4501:

spoj.9672:

I wouldnt have needed to “bully” you if you had just provided counter arguements instead of avoiding the topic.

You should put an emphasis on “try” in my statement of “try to bully”.

You weren’t happy with the answers I gave, likely because you tried bullying the answers out of posters.

Thanks for making him troll. -.-
He tried his very best to convince you that the combat system isn’t broken.
Any other person, me included, would’ve start trolling way sooner.

Because asking someone to post civilly when they are bullying people with loaded questions is apparently wrong?

If you don’t get what he has said a dozen times now, it’s no wonder he loses his temper.
And you’re wrong with what you claim. Melee has drawbacks, like having to know all the encounters. I want to see you trying to fight lupi for the first time.
Melee, combined with zerker gear and the right trait and skill setup has the least drawbacks and there is nothing wrong about that. There will always be one way to fight encounters as efficient as possible. The reason for melee being the most efficient way is because the encounters are so easy and don’t force you to use something else.

Leo G.4501:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Your suggestions of altering the combat of GW2 wont fix the problem because there is no problem with the combat system, as I’ve said before.
If you want a less melee-dependent “meta”, you should ask ANet for bosses who require different roles, so that some players can attack the bosses from range without screwing the players in melee range.

You say there’s no problem that exists. The way I see it, the combat is fairly twitch/skill based and can have various flavors and approaches to gain success, even if not all of them are optimal. None of that is a problem. The problem is the encounters themselves. No, not the encounters being broken or that encounters favor damage. I’m mainly talking about the variety in the encounters. Most of them are rather formulaic and predictable. Once you learn them, it becomes merely a script.

So scripting variety in new encounters….it’s not that hard since apparently you’ve got programming wizards on the forums that think their ideas are amazing and easy to implement. But the combat system isn’t free of fault either. Others touched on the system incentivizing close range and I think that hamstrings how encounters will be scripted. You can introduce encounters that are punishing to melee or neutralizes some of zerker stat strategies but at the end of the day, the meta decides how to destroy an encounter quickly and it’s likely going to be very similar to the approach now because the system incentivizes melee huddles.

Melee should incentivize itself rather than the system gravitating strategies around it.

There is no problem with the melee – range split because the combat system doesn’t encourage you to melee, it encourages you to stick together. Since melee weapons are stronger than ranged weapons and since it’s not impossible to melee the most bosses, melee will always be the prefered way to fight encounters.

Leo G.4501:

spoj.9672:

I wouldnt have needed to “bully” you if you had just provided counter arguements instead of avoiding the topic.

You should put an emphasis on “try” in my statement of “try to bully”.

You weren’t happy with the answers I gave, likely because you tried bullying the answers out of posters.

Thanks for making him troll. -.-
He tried his very best to convince you that the combat system isn’t broken.
Any other person, me included, would’ve start trolling way sooner.

As long as it is encouraged to do the content to get what you want instead of getting gold to buy what you want, which is not. It is way easier to just get the gold to buy stuff instead of going out and do things to get that stuff. RNG plays a huge part in this process but the economy gets also affected. If the RNG gets limited, if you can’t get everything from every mob anymore, which is a good thing, the economy would definitely start to stutter, simply because the TP gets mainly fueld by RNG drops which the players don’t want or don’t need.
My suggestion is that it should be faster to go for the item you want directly instead of farming up gold to get it. This would definitely create some turbulences but it would improve the game.
Offtopic, but that are my 2 cents.

When ANet does start to limit RNG, and they have to limit RNG, the economy will be hit anyways, so I don’t really care about that. And the most “prestigeous” items shouldn’t be on the TP anyways, you should earn them, not buy them.

And I would like to remind you all that this is a game. If the economy turns out to not fit this game, it gets removed or altered. The economy as it is now or the current balance of the economy isn’t set in stone.

Verificus.4320:

[…]

Four posts and you’re still missing the point. The combat system in GuildWars2 is fine! Look at WvW. We rarely see pure melee builds there, because it’s not as useful. Why is that so? Is the combat system different? No.
Are the opponents different? Yes they are. The problem lies within the encounters, not within the combat system.
Defiance hinders the control aspect and the support aspect isn’t as needed, so it can be included into the high-damage builds.

Don’t try to fix something that isn’t broken and work on your analysis instead.

Gosh the BLTP subforum is horrible. If you say something wrong you get accused of being an anti-capitalist. Seriously, people using that argument should not play this game, they should not play any game exept maybe Tetris.

rainynoble.6531:

I don’t see why not, lets have infinite range, and at the same give every mobs range attacks and infinite condition applying range. seems reasonable trade-off. no? so melee stackers won’t fuss about range players getting it easy.

Actually, why not also have infinite range on player’s condition applying range? doesn’t make sense if only the self benefiting boons are getting inf. range but not the offensive ones.

I don’t know you, can’t tell if you’re serious or not… And no, this is not obvioulsy sarcastic, I’ve seen things worse than this and they weren’t sarcastic.

Ayrilana.1396:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

I think the heart of the issue here is that you’re anti-Capitalism.

You made me laugh and cry at the same time. And you just needed one sentence to do so! Is that the only argument you’ve got? everyone who’s saying something against ANet, the game or its ecomony is an anti-capitalist now?
Sounds convincing.

He’s going by that poster’s previous posts and not simply because that poster has something against Anet or the economy. There’s a lot more to it than just in this thread.

Oh I have him seen accusing far too many people as anti-capitalists, me included, to believe in anything he says.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

I think the heart of the issue here is that you’re anti-Capitalism.

You made me laugh and cry at the same time. And you just needed one sentence to do so! Is that the only argument you’ve got? everyone who’s saying something against ANet, the game or its ecomony is an anti-capitalist now?
Sounds convincing.

@OP:

That’s how GW2 works. You don’t grind for the stats, you grind for skins. If you don’t like it I can’t help and ANet can’t either.

Ok, I will try my best to describe you that there is no problem with the current “meta”:
The encounters in GW2 are fairly easy, they don’t require you to run any defensive stats other than some supportive skills (if you know what to do and if you’re decent player). This is no problem with the combat system in GW2 but the encounters you will face. To ensure that all party members can dish out the maximum damage, it is recommended to stick together, so that all party members can profit from the buffs and so that the boss wont run around.
This wont change. The most optimal way to face enemies as an offensive group is to stick together.

Your suggestions of altering the combat of GW2 wont fix the problem because there is no problem with the combat system, as I’ve said before.
If you want a less melee-dependent “meta”, you should ask ANet for bosses who require different roles, so that some players can attack the bosses from range without screwing the players in melee range.

deSade.9437:

I’m in deep gaming crysis. I haven’t played dragon age 2 in years because I didn’t really like it much, and now that it’s time to insert the choices in dragon age keep – to import them into inquisition – I realised I don’t even remember the plot! Gooooodddd….
/soft sobs
Maybe I should replay it? But that would mean NOT playing inquisition; can I even let my new toy be, still wrapped, right in front of my eyes? Hng.

Which one is cheaper? If Inquisition is cheaper than DR2 (which I doubt), then don’t import it. Other than that, import the game (The import is free, isn’t it?).
Well, I hope I’ve interpreted your post correctly, because if not, I’ve just wrote huge pile of crap.

deSade.9437:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Meanwhile on the ranger subforum…

Erm…. I wanted to type lol but since the last time I got reported….
[hearty laugh]

There was already a huge wipe, the thread used to be twice as long.

I don’t agree with the OP, I would just like to have more content catered to ranged players. I want to whip out my Kudzu and my Brownbear in pride, with some random hero music faiding in while everyone is praising my… heroism.

Jep, that is my dream.

And a fix to the aggro range would be nice. What’s the use of my wonderful almost-2000 range if the kitten mobs keep resetting?

I recognize a pattern.

Oh well, the first thread I’ve linked got backstabbed, not even a trashcan message. That’s ANet way to communicate with us right there.

Meanwhile on the ranger subforum…

deSade.9437:

Erm… hmmm…
This one?

Well, that’s atleast as entertaining as the guy claiming that the LS can be considered endgame content.

Edit: GNAR, I’m going insane! Still no new post in this or that thread. Where’s Vayne when I need him?

Edit edit: One new post but a boring one… ~sigh
Edit edit edit: I mean, I would play the game if there would be something thrilling… but… yeah… #justGW2things

The forums have slowed down… I’m refreshing every time, waiting for something enlighting, funny or stupid. But nothing happens…

GuildWars2 attracted a certain playerbase at launch, the Manifesto Trailer showed that both players who loved previous MMO’s and players who loved GW1 in particular will find what they want in GW2. Those players, the ones who are now complaining, want to know if GW2 still tries to cater to them.

Right now, GuildWars2 doesn’t do that anymore, everything seems to be “casual oriented”, one might get the feeling that it tries to appeal to new players more than it tries to hold its old players.

The majority of players in this thread want to know if ArenaNet will neglect them for another year or if there is sufficient content coming for them too. The past has shown that ArenaNet can’t cater to both completely new players, the one the NPE changes are for, and the “veteran players”, which are waiting for stuff like dungeons, hard, challenging or fun content, well-engineered mechanics and long-time values or goals.

Edit: I hope before this thread gets closed due to derailment we can get a pleasing answer to this question.

Because teef would sound silly.

You should open a dungeon group, reading “exp. zerker only // gearcheck” and look at the gear… almost noone will use berzerker’s bear, yet they join.

I can’t believe this thread is still going…

#justRNGthings

oxtred.7658:

Everytime someone says the meta is about maximising damage, he can’t be taken seriously.

Well, every meta in every MMO ever made was about maximising efficiency. Maximising DPS is, for the most part, enough be as efficient as possible. And please don’t read this as “you have to get as much damage as possible” but as “reducing the support- and defensive capabilities to a minimum and raise the damage as far as possible without hurting the speed”. Not that I agree with anyone who’s ever used that argument but please don’t use flawed arguments to reenforce your opinion.

I have to admit that I’m not a huge fan of the berzerker meta, given all the other stat sets that are existing but not used.

But if I read through the most of the arguments against the zerker-meta, my brain hurts and my heart bleeds.

Constructive post is constructive.

Sakri.7234:

Crysto.7089:

Didn’t anet claim at one point that they were going to rework all the dungeons ala AC?

Yes.

And then something happened. And we got the Living World.

Dear ArenaNet, you’ve created a wonderful and absolutely stunning game two years ago, I would really apprechiate further additions to the game that live up to the standarts you’ve created when the game got released.

You’re probably right, but since ANet desperately tries to attract all kinds of players, I still hope we’ll get some hard content.

oxtred.7658:

No one in the dungeon subforum minds difficult content. However, most pugs can’t even melee spider queen. What will they do?

Die, get kittened, put on tankier gear, get slower, get more kittened, either leave or improve.
That’s the order I would foresee.

spoj.9672:

Thats exactly the point. He wants to change the combat system. His suggestions are seriously flawed. And anyone should be able to see they would cause more exclusion, elitism and problems than they would solve.

I don’t know where this elitism comes from. Some of the “elites” are kittens on a personal level, DonQuack is definitely off to a good start to confirm my bias, but in general I think there is no such thing as elitism in this game. I’m pugging dungeons daily and if I manage to get a good group, the time we need to complete the common paths are not far longer than the speedrun records.

And I don’t think that WP is completely right, his elan suggestion is pretty crappy tbh.
But he has a point that the current meta is pretty one-sided and one could easily see, elitism aside, that if more gearstats would be viable, the meta would be more diverse.
And it’s not the goal to kill of berzerker’s gear, it will still be the best DPS and there will be always people who’re able to survive with it. As I’ve said in another thread already, where I was also accused of just wanting the berzerker’s gear to be killed, I want the encounters lupicus-style harder, not more. And lupicus can be easily soloed if you count yourself as “elitist”.

Vayne.8563:

Kveldulf.7605:

Vayne.8563:

People keep using words like what the player base wants. Some people think the “player base” wants new dungeons. I’m sure that’s true for a percentage of the playerbase, but I’m not so sure it’s true for the player base as a whole.

People talk about people logging in or not logging in. They may not be logging in but plenty of people seem to be.

The living story is hit and miss. On a well liked chapter, people log in more. The recent chapter has seen a lot of activity in my guild and on maps as well.

I think people should talk for themselves instead of “the community”. Because I don’t think this community speaks with one voice.

sigh

No offense Vayne but I often see those posts from you in threads that I like.
Not the first time I saw you claiming that some people are using the word “community” when talking about things that they want to see, either.

Let me try to explain this to you as easy as I can:

x = the community of this game
y = Individuals (some claiming to be the “community” some not)
f = factor (In this case the amount of people)

=> x = f* y

so…even if we pretend that there are only 20 ppl here (in this particular thread) that are claiming that they know what the community wants, and (not even close) 10 ppl that share your opinion, => f = 20-10

Don’t you see?
We ARE the community! All of us! Some don’t care about where this game is going. Most people do care and want to know.

I am really not offending you! I just have the impression that you can’t see the meaning of the word “community”

Sorry but this isn’t close to true. When people say they’re speaking for the community, there’s an implication that the community as a whole wants something. There have been many pro mount threads, but no one would say the community as a whole wants mounts. It’s POSSIBLE a majority of the community does want them, but saying the community wants it because 10 people or 20 people or 30 people want it is wrong. In the case of mounts it’s particularly wrong because a large percentage of the community is against them? How many? I don’t know.

And that’s the point. I don’t know. So I’m not going to come in here and talk “for the community”. That’s a way of trying to make it look like you have numbers to support you.

When someone says people in the community want more dungeons, well…people in the DUNGEON community probably do. But that doesn’t mean everyone or even most people want it.

So now we have the question. If you’re not speaking for everyone and only your small demographic what does adding the words “the community” add to your argument?

At best, they add nothing to the argument. At worst, they’re misleading.

I’m part of the community too, and people sure as hell aren’t talking for me… most of the time anyway.

Seriously, what do you want?
If you’re ok with the game, if you like the living story, if you enjoy the NPE changes then be happy and let the rest be. I for one am not happy with the current game, in my mind this game has barely evolved since launch. You might disagree but here are dozen of players who feel the same way and you, claiming that we are not the majority of the community, are not helping with making us feel better in any way.

spoj.9672:

Thats a problem caused by the content. It has little to do with the build/gear system.

Exactly, the encounters are out of touch with the actual gear system, that’s what WP was questioning, even though he want’s to adjust the gear system, rather than the encounters in this game.

DonQuack.9025:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

I for one think that WP has a point:
Berzerker’s gear was meant to be for the best of the best but almost anyone can use berzerker’s gear now because the content holds not enough threat.

lol love the almost “anyone.” pls do increase the threat of dungeon content. Im sure the majority of the playerbase that loves dungeons will cream their pantaloons.

I always chuckle at the people who want it harder just to make it harder on berserker.

I want to scream " You do realise it will be harder for the less skilled AND the non berserker’s also?"

The same stupid argument over and over again, as soon as someone dares to question the lack of challenge in dungeons. Do you really think I wouldn’t know that it would increase the difficulty for all players? I for one see enough players who use berzerker’s gear and still don’t know when to dodge, simply because they’re not forced to learn it.
Bad players get carried by cheesy mechanics and that’s the main reason why this game feels so unrewarding challenge-wise.

I for one think that WP has a point:
Berzerker’s gear was meant to be for the best of the best but almost anyone can use berzerker’s gear now because the content holds not enough threat.
A traited Wall of Reflection alone offers 12 secs of protection against projectiles, if they don’t got stealth buffed like the ones of Malrona in TA. That means you have 12 seconds where you don’t have to care about certain bosses at all. Given the usual length of a fight, this skill alone will protect you for almost the entire fight.
Some encounters can be massively trivialized by such skills.

This doesn’t mean that all encounters should be made that difficult to be unbeatable as zerker, but at least the fight should be based more around the skill of the players than around the skills your class offers. And I think it’s also a pretty good idea to design special parts of encounters, which require special builds, like the husks at the tripple wurm, who can be killed easily by condition builds.

OP, so your argument is that the troll should be nerfed because you’re not able to kill him while watching TV?

dlonie.6547:

spoj.9672:

Ive been infracted for apologising to someone after they insulted me. Dont ask why I was so polite. Certainly didnt get me anywhere.

Wow, sometimes the mods really get carried away O.o

I remember seeing someone in the support forum asking why they got infracted for posting to fix the forum bug. I think they reversed it for him, but still, made me lol.

I expect this thread to be significantly shorter by Monday morning >.>

Yeah, that was me.
It got reverted and I even got a response from Gaile I think, I’m a special snowflake now.

And maybe your thread will change something, at least it got me to post again.

Do you need Koss on Koss for this collection or just any ascended book?

Gaile Gray.6029:

You mention wanting to know there will be more to the game. The new and continuing episodes of the Living World count towards that, right? The fact that players know there’s a team working on new content and features, and that there are releases on a regular basis? I fully understand that may not fulfill every desire, but it does show a continuing commitment to “new stuff” for us players, wouldn’t you agree?

The thing with the Living World is that it’s story. The most people don’t wait for more story but for more things to do. You can give it decent replayability by adding achievements, you can add some interesting mechanics to make it challenging, but in the end of the day it’s still just story. And once you’re done with the story you only come back for the nostalgia.

I personally think that the Living Story should be oushed back until the game is in a state that the most players can enjoy the story. The problem is that ANet advertised the Living World as expansion-like content when in fact it’s just story. That’s the reason why people want new maps and new dungeons, because they still believe the Living World is more than just story.

So no, the Living Story does not count as new content because it’s not repeatable.
The Living Story should be a bonus to a flawless game. But the game isn’t flawless and that’s why I think the LS is the wrong way to go atm.

uknortherner.2670:

So when it comes down to it, the pro-mount argument can be boiled down to the following:

1) Mounts are cool.
2) I want one.
3) Other MMOs have them.
4) I’m a Skritt obsessed with collecting shiny things.

Hardly compelling reasons for wasting resources and besides, you already have “mounts” in the Gem store. Go and play with those.

Reasons against mounts:
1) Mounts are not cool.
2) GW didn’t have mounts either.
3) GW2 isn’t WoW.
4) GW2 would have more screenclutter.

Doesn’t sound compelling either. The only argument really fitting is the one against screenclutter but that is not an argument against mounts in general.

+1 for mounts if their use is limited. They should grant a speedboost, but only on streets and roads. The player should not be able to fight on mounts, mounts should be able to die and have to be revived in one of the six towns if dead.

Kraljevo.2801:

I think I read something a few days ago that NcSoft will improve the marketing for GW2. I hope they finally woke up now.

If they don’t change their policy to tell us more then this money will be wasted. Nothing marketed great is still nothing.

I would just like to know in which direction this game is drifting.
Like dlonie, I’m waiting. I’ve been waiting a long time now and the only part of GW2 left that entertains me is the gemstore, at the same time I dislike ANet for pushing the gemstore so hard, my whole game experience has shrinked down to get gold to buy the fluff they release next because there isn’t anything else left for me.

And I thought ANet would knew this, I thought they know that the dungeons aren’t enough to keep players interested, I thought they know that the normal PvE has grown redundand, from a lore prespective (seriously, even if you would like to help that charr in trouble, the event would just start over ten minutes later. Your impact: Zero), from a gameplay perspective (When I started, I struggled to kill the most veterans, now I can solo almost all champions in the open world) and from a reward centric perspective (1 silver for completing that 10 min. long event! Yay!). I thought they know their game lacks interesting mechanics and challenge.

But then they started to release the NPE changes, because obviously some players can’t even pick up weed to feed the cows, and dumped down the game even more.

So I would like to know, which playertype is the one you are catering to? Is it the one who seeks challenge? Or is it the one who doesn’t want to be challenged, the one who only needs to buy the newest intrument or the newest outfit from the gemstore to be happy? Don’t tell me both because I wont believe you and you haven’t done a good job in the past convincing me of the contrary.