It’s not about 2v1 it about the fact that the thief drops 70% of HP off you before you even see him.
Situational awareness – get some. No stealth skill lasts long enough to run all the way up to an enemy without him seeing you coming before stealthing. Not to mention that if he is stealthed when he first attacks he will not be able to do Steal/C&D/Backstab because he will still have Revealed when doing C&D unless he waits 3 seconds between the Steal and the C&D.
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As I can see mesmers have a limit of 3 copies at the same time, but they are able to shatter up to 6. Why the 3 copies limit is not applied?
I’m pretty sure its not possible to shatter more than 3 at the same time. You could in theory shatter 3, then summon another 3 very quickly with insta-cast abilities then use a different shatter to shatter them as well, which might be what you’re seeing.
i thought pvp was there to be able to learn your character, to get a clue which armor you should obtain, how to play the proffessions,…
You thought wrong.
I think Anet lowered Dancing Dagger’s damage by so much because it was being used for it probably isn’t meant to do. I know that whenever I see two people or more, my first thought is usually “Spam them to death with Dancing Daggers”. If specced right, that can hit up to 5k-7k when bouncing off targets (it’s not strong if it didn’t have multiple targets to bounce). Maybe it was meant to just be a multi-target cripple, not a damage ability?
Maybe it’d be more balanced if they lowered it to 3 initiative because it’s just used for cripple now, and 4 seems to cost a lot for such a cripple attack.
Or they could just make it so that, when bouncing, it cannot hit the same target more than once.
Largos pretty much permanently bugged on my server, so it was impossible for me to complete the Miyani chain. Brilliant.
Was there any single part of this event that hasn’t suffered from blocking bugs. Noll disappearing. The largos breaking. Canach disappearing. Unkillable Ancient Karkas. I’m seriously starting to have doubts about ANet’s QA process….
After which. Inspector Ellen Kiel appears with a newly captured Canach and Subdirector Noll. Levi forces Canach to tell the story of what the Consortium was doing and their role in all of this. He confesses that he has sent a Consortium team down to Southsun Shore in order to do some research on the Karka. This backfires and he loses contact with the team. Levi then states that this could have possibly agitated the Karka into attacking Lion’s Arch. Magnus, angry at Canach for putting the city at risk, states that the next course of action is to invade Southsun Cove in order to eradicate the threat. Noll protests, stating that the island is private property of the Consortium and the Lionguard have no business being there. He eventually recants and the Lionguard begin sending ships of soldiers to Southsun Cove
Would’ve been great if I’d have been able to actually see any of this happen, rather than just beating on an unkillable Ancient Karka for half an hour.
Aurora Glade, (non overflow)
+1
Haha I love the QQ on thief forum. I actually loled when I tried out dancing dagger. Asked a mesmer on the opposite team in tourns to be a test dummy (glasscannon). 1.7k crit fantastic. Time to reroll guys or play with skill.
Yet warriors can do almost that much damage with their greatsword auto-attacks, which also hits multiple targets albeit not at long range, and nobody complains…
And what do you expect using a glass-cannon as your test dummy?
What builds are worth it?
The build where you reroll as a warrior.
Anyone who still thinks this isn’t the beginning of a gear grind is fooling themselves at this point. We were fooled by Anet the first time around, but the situation ought to be clear to everyone by now.
Fool me once, shame on me…
Fool me twice… can’t get fooled again.
Well that’s not quite so bad then. Cluster bomb is currently pretty much the only thing we can do from the walls of a tower due to our pitiful 900 range on everything else.
Plasmon, surely you didn’t think it fair to be able to attack someone through solid walls? Perhaps you did, in which case I’m afraid that this game probably isn’t for you, as Arena Net seem pretty dedicated to balancing content and fixing bugs… Unless it’s the personal story of course, but they’ll probably get the story in the expansion right!
I don’t see any logical reason why certain abilities shouldn’t be able to attack people through walls providing the attack is not of the projectile type. Evidently ANet have decided this particular ability shouldn’t work that way though.
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W3 counts as PvE
Really? Can anyone else confirm this?
Until someone from ANet says that it’s not meant to work without LoS I will assume that it’s working as intended and is therefore not ‘broken’. It’s not like you can actually kill anyone with it who isn’t terrible. With a little luck the best you can do is down someone who waited for too long before stepping back from the edge with low health, but then their team will just kill the phantasm and help them up within 2 seconds anyway. The only way you can possibly kill anyone with this is if they are the only person defending the entire tower and theres nobody to help them up from being down, in which case what chance did they have of fighting off the entire attacking force anyway?
We want unbalanced game play fixed.. You can perma stealth while killing someone 100-0 that is NOT supposed to happen.
It really is not fair when a Thief can 100-0 someone and they can’t even see them to target them, it is like those stupid 100-0 stunlocks in the game that shall not be mentioned.
It is not possible to kill someone while perma-stealthed, the only possible way to perma stealth involves doing little to no damage to anything because damage while stealthed gives ‘revealed’ and prevents stealthing again for 3 seconds. The culling problems causing a thief to appear to be invisible for longer than the stealth actually lasts is not ‘perma-stealth’, it is a problem with the culling, and will be fixed when/if the culling is fixed.
Yet they had managed to keep GW1 alive 7 years, releasing 3 campaigns and 1 expansions, without ever raising level cap. Nor gear power. 7 years after launch, there still wasn’t a single amor set that was more powerful than any max level armor present at launch.
Yep, I played Ultima Online for over 7 years and the skill-cap stayed the same the whole time and so did the item selection until near the end. You don’t need artificial ‘character progression’ if the game is skillful and challenging enough to make you feel that you’re progressing as a player.
To take a more extreme example, look at games outside of the MMO genre. I played Counterstrike: Source for hundreds of hours and that has no character progression. None. Whatsoever. Character progression isn’t an entirely evil thing but it’s certainly not something that is essential for longevity if the actual game-play is challenging enough.
Of course, a large part of what made CS:S and UO fun is the infinite possibilities presented by the Player vs Player aspect, where an MMO has to cater to lots of people who just want to fight monsters, which I suppose is a lot harder, though by no means impossible, to keep interesting.
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We have pretty good mobility as well. Once all the nerfs are done we will still be the best class in the game at running away. Unfortunately it’s hard to win battles by running away really well.
MMO’s are and always have been about steady progression, and working towards a large goal in a social environment. The feeling of building a character up from a novice into a powerful warrior with endgame gear, then comparing, assisting and competing with friends and foes embodies the genre.
Wrong. Ultima Online had none of this rubbish and I played it for over 7 years. When the game is good enough you don’t need this never ending carrot-on-a-stick game-play to keep people playing. In-fact, it was when they began to introduce this sort of thing, adding a grind treadmill by allowing the training of skills past 100, that it ultimately killed the game and made all the old players leave.
Unfortunately rather than following the UO/sandbox model most modern MMOs followed the EverQuest model as it is more profitable, despite being lacking in substance.
Yep, the whole nonsense ‘agony’ mechanic in particular sounds like it goes against everything that I thought ANet stood for.
There is nothing wrong with the agony mechanic.
they had spectral agony in GW1.
What IS wrong is that they’ve added a new tier of armour thats more powerful than exotics and on top of that has space for the infusion slots.
I don’t particular care what they had in GW1. Just because something was in GW1 does not mean it must be completely flawless. This is not GW1, it is supposed to be the next generation of MMO that bucks the trend of this sort of cheap mechanic.
Just adding my voice to the chorus of opinions that this update, and in particular this whole ‘agony’ thing, sounds like it’s just a nonsense mechanic to force people into a gear treadmill that will add zero actual value to the gameplay. Any new mechanics should add interesting new gameplay opportunities, not just be artificial barriers stopping people from accessing content until they grind through getting better kit…
Yep, the whole nonsense ‘agony’ mechanic in particular sounds like it goes against everything that I thought ANet stood for.
Beat it on my norn thief after 2 hours of trying. I had the 25% speedboost sigil though I’m not sure whether that actually works inside the Clocktower?
Then logged onto my human mesmer, no speedbosts, and beat it on my first attempt.
>>This is not a primary-school sports-day where everyone gets a medal for participation.
Actually it is a videogame.
How does that contradict what I said?
ARENANET
Please sort out the puzzle. 2 days worth of trying it and not even half way through it.
Its far to hard and very disapointing if i miss out on a title because im not a super nerd that has amazing jumping puzzle skills.
React to what youre fans are saying and stop listening to the people who say they have done it and its easy when they are 10 year olds trying tooo look cool.
ANet, please don’t cater to the 10 year olds who want everything dumbed down and made so easy that anyone can do it without any effort or skill.
I’ve done Clocktower. I’m not going to say it’s easy, it isn’t. It’s hard. That’s the point. That’s what makes it fun. It is intended to be hard enough that not everyone will be able to complete it. Stop tying your self-worth to whether you can complete a puzzle or not. If you can’t do it, you have to just man up and accept the fact that you’re not good enough.
This is not a primary-school sports-day where everyone gets a medal for participation.
Haste while stomping
should be removed from thief… other classes dont get anything this nice.
You mean other than all the other classes that also have abilities that give quickness, like a Mesmer’s Timewarp, a Warrior using Frenzy, an Engineer using Elixir U or a Ranger using Quickening Zephyr?
I had a lot of fun doing the clock-tower. The only thing I’ll agree with the OP on is the first point, about other players blocking the view; that can be pretty frustrating. It would be nice if the other players at least were ghosted or transparent so I could properly see my own char.
I really hope ANet do not listen to his other points, especially about slowing down the ooze. It is perfectly fine as it is. It is supposed to be hard and should not be dumbed down. This is not WoW where everything has to be reduced to cater to the lowest common denominator…
Constantly running into this. It’s a real pain in the kitten
Have you guys been at home sick when they were teaching basic math in school?
Base damage = Mug 2k -> CnD 2k -> BS 10k.
With pre-nerf AS = Mug 2k -> CnD 2k -> BS 15k = 19k
With post-nerf AS = Mug 2.15k -> CnD 2.15k, ->BS 11k = 16k
Maybe you should add a couple of heartseekers to the end of those so it’s actually a fair comparison by using all of the 5 boosted attacks.
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What I ment to address that you get more points for holding something than intentionally losing it, to recapture it later.
This certainly needs to be addressed. At the moment the zerg just runs around farming karma by capturing towers then leaving them to be lost before coming back and recapturing, and repeat ad nauseum. There’s little short-term incentive to actually stay and guard.
150% is just too much and should be toned to 100% or lower.
lolwut? It currently make the ability do 150% of its normal damage, not 150% extra damage. If you changed that value to to 100% it would make the ability do exactly the same damage as without the signet, essentially making the Assassins signet do nothing. If it was lower than 100%, it would make it do less damage with the signet that it would without it…
Maybe you should have a clue about how a skill actually works before trying to make suggestions on how to improve it?
@ZLE – Shadow refuge is not a very good ability to have. Usually, they just flood that with aoe and youre dead even with shadow rejuvenation. Or worse. They knock you out. I stick to blinding powder or roll for initiative. If I get teleported and Im out of combat, Im definitely using tripwire though. And yes. Traps are friggin awesome.
If you’re only using Shadow Refuge to escape from a bunch of people chasing you, you’re missing the majority of one of the thief’s most malleable and powerful utility skills.
This. Anyone who doesn’t think Shadow Refuge is the most awesome skill ever is Doing It Wrong. It is not to be used for escaping, but it is amazing for saving or ressing allies and stomping enemies. Start thinking more about your team than about yourself and you’ll realise how good the skill is.
The only reason I don’t use it is that I tried it in beta and could never get it to actually work. Maybe I should give it another go.
So basically you want to make stealth so utterly useless that it might as well just be removed completely. How about ‘no’….
It’s not like playing cool-down whack-a-mole is any more skillful. Every class has it’s mix of good and bad players.
It’s called Quickness, as a result of the Haste skill, makes all your attacks twice as fast for a few seconds. He must also have a bunch of exotics or something (or your armour sucks) coz his damage is also very high. If you were equally geared then his steal would not be hitting for over 7k.
Seriously the death blossom spam spec(s) is borderline griefing imo, increase the initative cost for it or remove the evasion from it >-<.
You cannot be serious…Death Blossom already uses 5 initiative, and you’re suggesting it cost even more? The damage isn’t even very good compared to a pure DPS or back-stab build or whatever.
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^ i’ve first noticed it with my daggers, so it’s as much of an issue with them as it is with ranged weapons.
Yes, it happens all the time with daggers too. Every other stealth ability automatically stops attacks so they don’t break it, yet this one doesn’t.
Them stating that usage of the current Mesmer mechanics are not an exploit does not really in any way imply that they’re going to make any changes to the thief mechanics…
It would certainly be nice to be able to play an infiltrator role, but it would be pretty game-breaking if a group of people could all just role thieves and climb/shadowstep the walls of a keep instead of bothering to break down the door. A Mesmer at least needs to get inside the keep once to put down his portal.
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My dancing dagger rarely does more than like 1500 :-/
Up to 14k damage from a dancing dagger? If that’s true you must be able to backstab for almost 40k and insta-gib anyone….
“Run and evade while morphed”
Really? Do tell how you deal with cripple, chill, stun, and every other movement impairing condition as a Moa? How do I heal my wounds? How do I escape opponents without swiftness, or stealth, or a way to keep them still?
How can you possibly survive for 10 seconds of focus fire off of two evade rolls, and nothing else? Especially as a lower health class like the thief or elementalist?
It’s actually kind of funny that you mention entangle, because it just shows just how ridiculous Moa is.
Immobilize:
1: Can be cured
2: Allows ranged users to continue firing under most circumstances
3: Does not prevent healing
4: Does not take away utility skills
5: Does not interrupt transformations such as Tornado, or Lich Form
6: Does not destroy summoned creatures, such as minions, or Thieves.
Exactly. When I said I “wait to die” I didn’t mean I just sit there and not try to do anything, of course I try hitting some of the Moa abilities, but unless the opponent has like 100hp left they’re hardly any actual use.
Broke on damage, eh?
Hah!
Then no Mesmer would use it. Why?
Our Clones at 80 do at least 1 damage when they attack, and we can’t control them. So we Moa someone, then a clone pokes it with their illusionary toothpick immediately after.
Thats not counting other sources of damage, say Bleeds, Ally AoEs, our own Bouncing attacks, etc.That version of Moa would be worse then a Daze, potentially worse then a Blind, and definitely not worth the Elite slot for any reason.
Really? That’s your argument? It wouldn’t exactly be hard for them to make it so clones don’t attack Moa’d people.
> Get Moa’d at half health
> Is dead before it wears off
Compare this to the elite skill I get as a thief, Basilisk venom, which stuns for one second, two seconds if I go 30 points into Deadly Arts. Mostly mesmers are pretty well balanced and I enjoy fighting them, but as soon as one Moas me I just sigh and wait to die. It’s kinda ridiculous. Even Blizzard had the sense to make the sheep spell break on damage, so it could be used to remove an enemy from the fight but wasn’t an “I Win” button.
or just stop depending on one skill. ;/ and actually try
facepalm
It doesn’t matter whether you’re ‘depending on one skill’ or not, if you spend initiative on an ability and it does no damage because it misses for no apparent reason then you’re being put at a disadvantage and losing both damage and time (over which the opponent can do more damage to you).
Yeah, the missing stationary targets isn’t even limited to HS. On my Ranger, I miss half of my attacks on the door in Foefire with a sword. Trebuchet can’t be hit by Death Blossom nor HS, and occasionally Death Blossom just flat out misses for no real reason, too.
The issue with attacking doors, buildings, siege weapons etc is a separate thing. Sometimes it seems like you have to keep moving around the object to keep hitting it. I kinda assume this was intentional to stop you just autoattacking a door then going afk until it gets broken down.
OP finds one thing that thieves can do that his class can’t. Demands nerf so that all classes are exactly the same.
What a muppet.
3) Stop saying kitten every other sentence. In a few months when the cool kids have moved on to another fotm phrase, you’ll look back and feel stupid.
That’s how the forums censors all swear-words, youkitten
Lol, Terrorcookie it stuns for 1 second, ONE PERSON, then 1 second later it starts the chain of attacks, easily avoidable with double tap.
You got killed because you cannot utilize evades, L2P and quit asking for nerfs to circumvent your apparent lack of skill.
Stuns for HALF a second.
Yep. Stuns one person for half a second. Yet OP makes out like all three of his team were stunned then insta-gibbed. He clearly doesn’t really have a clue what happened, just got owned and decided that the class that owned him must be OP.
Rock paper scissors balancing will not work in this game. The open 5v5 conquest maps require too many 1v1’s for that to even out with teamplay.
Rock paper scissors balancing doesn’t work in any games. It’s nothing but lazy game design, by companies who can’t be bothered to do proper balancing.
They are meant to be a burst class, bad armour, high damage.
If they nerf the damage what do thiefs have left?
Useless stealth utility skills and no damage.Well if they bring the damage down to be in range with other classes, or replace the initiative system we won’t be thieves anymore. We will be scouts that run in to see how hard a mob hits so we can inform the rest of our party.
This is exactly what happened in a lot of other games. The rogue is always a class that’s pretty weak defensively but has stealth and high burst, but people always QQ about the damage so that gets nerfed, then people QQ about stealth so that gets nerfed. Then basically the rogue is a warrior that wear lighter armour, and everyone who played rogue either rerolls or quits.
Hopefully ANet aren’t stupid enough to let the whiners destroy this game too.
As for quick finishers, there are buffs that give quickness and allow you to speed up your animation, unless that class you were fighting against does not have that buff then he’s probably hacking. Not to forget signet of rage gives you quickness as well.
Oh, yeah. Forgot to mention that speedhack just makes you run faster, it certainly can’t make your actions, such as finishing, perform faster. As you mention, he probably just had quickness, i.e. the ‘Haste’ ability for thief makes everything twice as fast, including finishers, for a few seconds.