Guild Wars 2

It’s very doable, won’t break the game, won’t destroy immersion (no more than sex change does), and has absolutely zero effect on anyone other than yourself …. that said, there’s a new breed of finger-wagging school marms in games now, that if they cannot afford gems or someone else somewhere in the universe would like an option they don’t like (or can’t afford) – they throw a forum tantrum. Ignore them.

I honestly think that eventually you will see it. The process and details would however be time consuming for Anet, so look for a large gem/cash charge for it, and a short wait after ordering the change.

Ranger Oppression? C’mon, let’s be honest, the very title of this thread is ridiculous.

Yes, of all the current classes the Ranger class is the one most likely to be shunned or kicked: that’s a fact. Having said that, the so-called “auto-kicked for being a Ranger” claim is overwhelmingly grossly exaggerated, and at times, an out-right fabricated claim.

Rarely does a single week go by where I have not run at least 2 or 3 dungeons, and I’ve been doing this for months. And because my primary guild is focused on WvW, I mainly run pugs. Sorry, but to claim Rangers are regularly being kicked (or not accepted) from groups is preposterous. That claim simply defies what I have experienced first hand, and what I see in the LFG panel. What’s more, I use to main a Ranger, and pugged frequently, and only ever once experienced any “Ranger bias” in the dozens upon dozens of pugs my Ranger was in. And yes, this includes my early, but thankfully short, “bear, short-bow” phase when I had yet to work out proper builds and skill rotations for the class.

Again, let me re-state it, " Yes, of all the current classes the Ranger class is the one most likely to be shunned or kicked: that’s a fact." … so I am NOT saying this bias does not exist, however, let me re-state this also, " Having said that, the so-called “auto-kicked for being a Ranger” claim is overwhelmingly a grossly exaggerated, and at times, an out-right fabricated claim."

And on the rare occasions that I have seen a Ranger kicked from a pug I’m in, without exception he was a Ranged DPSer (more accurately, a dps feather tickler), with a Tanky Pet, and in non-stacking encounters (like the Spider queen in TA) he was nowhere to be seen near the boss (because he was 1200 to 1500 away doing a tiny fraction of dps, and giving his boons to …. only himself).

Elitist Ranger bias? Sure, it exists, and sadly so. But let’s not pretend that the entire bias is a one way street … because the “bearbow – stereotype” is not a myth, but far too often, a reality.

When the question is asked, “How do you feel about Gw2 right now?”, it’s necessary to add the corollary of, “compared to what?”. For my part, when trying to rate the game as it exists right now, and not as it existed in marketing or when originally launched, I don’t compare it to games in general, but only to a very specific genre of games: traditional vertical-progression MMORPG currently on the market with large populations and consistent updating. Within this group of games (games like WoW, Lotro ect…), I would rate Gw2 very highly.

1. The game has stunning visuals and artwork which very few triple-A mmos can match. And this alone is a gigantic plus in a person being able to immerse themselves into that world; most especially for people past their teenage/college student age who no longer can stomach overly cartoonish depictions of their characters and the world in general.

2. No hard trinity (must have classes). While this is an open point of contention among many who hold that it hurts game play, for quite a few people (myself included), it’s a breath of fresh air from the, “4 of 5, need healer” experience in other games. What’s more, for good and ill, it’s one of the unique elements to this game that was promised during development, and that has been kept.

3. The little things: from the DEs, to not having to compete for nodes, to a quest heart-system that cuts down on tedious back and forth time waste – the game has some really nice QoL aspects that make game play more enjoyable.

4. The combat system. You can stomp your feet all you want about the Gw2 combat system and weapon skills system (and there are some very legitimate complaints), but after experiencing this system, I for my part could never go back to the far more static and non-dynamic combat systems of games like WoW or Lotro.

5. And lastly, another plus is that the vertical progression in Gw2 is still in its infancy. While we never really got the marketed Gw2 of, “easily obtainable BiS gear”, where, "Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the best statistical loot in the game. Because we want everyone on an equal power base.” — once you get past that disappointment and accept Gw2 for what it now is, ie, another traditional vertical progression game (albeit, with some cool innovations and better graphics), it’s actually pretty good. And because the VP is new, it’s still on a low power curve, so the long-term detrimental effects are still a ways off. Sure, eventually a game company will create, and stand by, a 100% horizontal progression game that also has modern graphics and solid game play – and when they do, I’m all in, but that moment, is not now.

Criticisms to each point:
1. Great graphics, true, but the particle effect over-load is tiresome.
2. No hard trinity, true, but the class balance issues somewhat sabotage this ideal.
3. Lots of little QoL thing done right, true, but there are some basic QoL elements still missing (in-game voice, armor-type categories for browsing the Tp, ect).
4. A dynamic, movement based combat system, true, but sometime the game goes a bit overboard in this respect (dodge ftw lol).
5. A lower power-curve VP system, true, but what direction this will take in the future is a huge unknown. Is it a low-power curve only because it’s step one and in its infancy, or is it merely the tip of a VP iceberg?

All that said, " How do I feel about Gw2 right now": my answer would be, that within the context of its current competitors, I feel pretty kitten good about it.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Subdue.5479:

Let’s say you’re correct and that’s what early buyers wanted. Now, it’s not, as can be seen by the larger turn out of players, by new found organization amongst players to secure objectives. Let’s not forget that a quick google search will show that a lot of people were complaining that there was nothing left to achieve once they hit 80. Is it really a wrong turn for the game given that more people like it than not? More people are active within the game now, than before?

Do you have a link to show that more people play now than at launch? Do you have metrics to show that people who were complaining about “nothing to achieve” would not have been satisfied with more robust horizontal progression — of which there was very little at launch — and very little today.

I remember a lot of “nothing to do” posts, not a lot of “no stat increase to grind for” posts.

Indigo, good post.

I’ve quite often read people post here that the reason Anet ran with Ascended gear was because of the loud outcry of people wanting it, and because of the loss of players. This is a perfectly legitimate argument, and perhaps it is in fact the case.

Personally, I’ve always felt it was for the exact opposite reason. I’ve always suspected that what actually happened was that the game exceeded even their expectations with initial sales; and having got that core group firmly within their hands, they decided to go after the WoW teenagers as well. In other words, they got greedy.

So they dragged out the “always intended” ascended gear, except I suspect they added a stat progression to that “always intended” gear that was not there originally. Of course a backlash was expected, but I believe they felt it would blow over relatively quickly. Unfortunately for Anet, they soon realized that they miscalculated in this regard. And in my mind, many of the changes and statements made since their miscalculation have been a soft back-peddling on the mistake they made.

Of course this is all just pure speculation on my part, and nothing more than that. Truth is, we will never really know for sure, as Anet, and Anet alone has the metrics for the game for those mere 2 months after release. As for those that enjoy speaking with the voice of authority, as if they are “in the know” as to what Anets intent and reasoning were, they are just full of bull-kitten.

There is however one metric that we all should immediately dismiss out of hand, and that’s forum whining/QQ … whether for, or against a change, it’s usually indicative of very little. And forum whining is usually the province of the vocal minority; which back in November of 2012, would have been the WoW teens clamoring for gear stat progression.

Subdue.5479:

stale.9785:

Subdue – that particular quote outright says you are wrong. The best statistical gear, for everyone, without working for it. The fact that you continue to pick individual words from it and quibble about them says far more about you than the people you argue with. At one point, in another thread, you stated point blank that exotic was still “best in slot” when that is categorically untrue.

We get it – you like vertical progression. This game, however, was marketed on the promise of having NO vertical progression. Deal with it.

If this game were marketed with no vertical progression, there would be no character levels. There would be no tiers of item (basic, fine, masterwork, rare, exotic). Vertical progression is at the very core of this game, and every other MMO, GW1 included.

If anything, YOU are the one that’s picking and choosing parts of the statement rather than reading the whole thing. Is ascended gear mandatory for anything? No. It’s optional, JUST LIKE THEY SAID IT WOULD BE.

Also, in the thread you’re talking about, I stated that your definition of “best in slot” is too limited and irrelevant to GW2. Best in slot in other MMOs entails access to content that is otherwise inaccessible or impossible to accomplish. That’s not the case in GW2, where exotic gear, and really even rare gear, is enough for pretty much all content. If you’re going to quote me, then quote me completely. Just like if you’re going to reference a quote from A.Net, don’t just read what you want to read and ignore the rest.

In GW2 as originally intended, the path from 1 to 80 is no more than an extended tutorial. And having 5 tiers of armor is meaningless when the BiS armor is easily obtainable. But if it makes you happy, okay, then try this: originally, GW2 was a vertical progression game for your leveling experience, and then for a small amount of time before you get the easily obtainable max stat gear. This entire process takes about 2 to 6 weeks depending on how much you push. And after that, the game that was marketed kicks in, and that toon is in a horizontal-progression game – forevermore. Basically the game was suppose to contain a limited vertical progression through leveling, followed by an easily obtainable BiS gear plateau that would never be extended further. That in essense was the GW2 that was marketed for years on end, and the one that the majority of early buyers wanted.

But you already knew that.

;-)

Anet needs to keep WvW as needed for map completion.

Because the WvW players who are terri-bad fails need people they can actually beat in a 1v1 …

;-)

Put me down in the 100% in favor of having dueling in this game. And no … NO … not in some hidden corner of the WvW map, nor having to create a special instance or whatever – it should be a simple, easy and free thing to do.

So, I do agree with you that this game could very much use a dueling system. And the Arena in the Charr zone seems built to order for this, people can challenge each other inside of that arena, and there and there alone, fight their 1v1s (and perhaps a small arena in each starter city as well). This would please the folks that want their duels, while also keeping the dueling out of peoples faces in the open world.

Thing is, as much as I love dueling, I have to admit that in other games, when others dueled near me it was often quite irritating to me – lol.

IMO, a small dueling-arena in each starter city I believe would be the perfect compromise.

Good build overall. Traditional but workable. The only thing that I might change is taking balance stance over endure pain. The Oh-Sh…. button is nice, but from my experience, in general I would rather have access to on-demand stability (which often makes Oh-Sh … moments less common).

But it’s a decent build.

timmyf.1490:

Based on his other messages, this poster appears to be a Ranger who is incredibly upset about thieves.

Oh yeah …. you nailed it. And the irony is, that Rangers, despite their other shortcomings, are actually in a very good spot to counter/duel thieves.

He’s most likely talking about Thieves and their Stealth abilities.

But, perhaps he’s not …

Regardless, I just adore his over-the-top posts with their childlike attempts to sound profound.

Keep them coming Burnfall!

;-)

Noss.4105:

I’m not a fan of modified ammunition on condi builds, as your direct damage is really low. You could drop 10 from firearms and grab HGH instead!

Noss, I ran the math again … I stand corrected, total dps output (assuming 6+ stacks of might at all times) from HGH will beat out the roughly + 12% to 16% increased direct damage from TtM and MA (assuming 5+ different conditions running at all times) .

Thanks.

Egorum.9506:

You don’t need to run traveler’s rune on this for the move speed, you actually get perma swiftness from elixir h+elixir b+toss elixir b.

What that means is you can run noble runes and roll HGH. I can see where MA might seem like the better choice but the 30 in alchemy gives you an extra 10% boon dur and 100 vitality in addition to the extra raw power and condition damage. Power beats precision 1:1 unless you have greater than 50% crit damage and rabid provides enough precision to reliably proc all your on crit abilities without having to invest heavily into firearms.

you can also swap 10 more points away from firearms into explosives to adjust for the 10% condi dur loss. the noble runes provide the condition damage to replace what you lost.

The extra 200 range on your weapons isn’t as noticeable as the 20% cd redux on pistol will be. Running the above variation with sigil of battle over earth is an additional +315 pow/condi over 2 stacks of low damage (<150) bleed.

The real issue with 100% condi dur builds though is you sacrifice everything to gain very little in terms of damage, survivability, and mobility. Anyone roaming w/ zerkers will steamroll you before you can load them up, and anyone who’s in bad shape can just run away and you can’t chase them.

just what i’ve noticed trying something similar before

Egorum – many/many thanks. Rock solid advice. +1

Noss.4105:

I’m not a fan of modified ammunition on condi builds, as your direct damage is really low. You could drop 10 from firearms and grab HGH instead!

Noss, Thanks for your input.

You know, I considered doing just that; but whenever I theory crafted the difference between the average number of might stacks I would have from going HGH (minus the 100 condition damage loss from moving 10 out of Firearms) , with the average amount of added direct damage from keeping an extremely high number of different conditions on the opponent with Modified Ammo … the extra 10 for MA won out by a sliver.

But I’m going to go back and do the math again in case I missed something. Which is very possible.

Hey guys, here’s a solo/small group WvW build I put together just for fun. (btw: yes, I know, Nade builds are better)

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQJAqalspSXX3SfF17ICoH6FfNiiU8YU2HF0HbB-jgCBYLIYNBkqIhk0A5QFRjtMsIasaGYqUER1OEYeEER1SBsoyK-e

I call it, " The Rich Man’s Pistol/Elixir Gun Build" … because the necessity to have constantly running Rare Veggie Pizza’s and Toxic Focusing Crytal’s makes this build prohibitively expensive.

Obvious upsides:
1. +100% condition duration, plus 1349 condition damage, plus massive burn damage, plus frequent 6 second Sharpshooter Procs, plus frequent Sigil of earth procs = your opponent’s Melandru/Lemongrass Soup build is a joke you laugh at.
2. Near perma Poison, plus perma cripple, plus near perma weakness, plus frequent confusion, plus consistent vulnerability application = a heavily softened up opponent.
3. Extremely good condition removal between Alchemy X (409) and Elixir Gun skills 3 and 5.

Obvious downsides:
1. No vigor, No endurance … uh Oh !
2. So-so Toughness, with very limited health regen.
3. You gotta be swimming in gold to run it ! (lol)

Assuming you were the Bill Gates of GW2, would this build fair well in solo/small group WvW play? Any trait or utility choices that could improve it?

PS: (yes, I know, Nade Builds are better – lol)

The GW2 community is just fine, and in no way unusual. Basically it does nothing more than mirror our real life communities where a small percentage of people are consistently super-nice and honest, another small percentage of people are consistently total jerks with no respect and an evil streak, and the overwhelming majority of people are somewhere in-between.

You will find that in MMOs the jerk/disrespectful/prankster elements are higher in percentage in certain parts of the game than others. And traditionally, Dungeons (where the phat loot is), has always attracted a higher percentage of the immature posing e-thug nerds (real life overweight virgins = gaming super heroes). So when you go on dungeon runs, your chances of encountering a jerk are higher than usual. Having said that, its not a majority, nor is it even close to that.

As to folks not being very helpful to “newbies” on dungeon runs … that has far more to do with the designs of the dungeons and the lack of in-game voice-chat options than it has to do with anything else.

So while I can sympathize somewhat with the OPs argument, I cannot agree with it in general. Because my experience with this games community, despite some unfortunate exceptions, has been fairly positive – and fairly consistent with my experiences in other MMOs.

Ceallach.8740:

I’m pretty sure that constitutes “P2W” and I don’t like the idea for that reason. Even if it was only out of combat, it would still mean that people that bought it would have a significant advantage over others when it comes to PvE – because gaining rewards and being able to even just participate in events often has to do with “getting there” when it comes to open-map PvE – if everyone got there significantly before you, you’d constantly be missing out. I don’t think that would be “fair” and would create a hostile atmosphere in-game very contrary to what we have now (and make problems between people even worse).

Sorry, not trying to be a downer, just thinking about this from another perspective.

P2 Win? Hostile atmosphere? Not fair?

Ahahahahahahaha ….. ROFL

Dude we are not competing AGAINST each other in PvE … you know that right?

C’mon man … get serious.

Aeonblade.8709:

No need to make it an item, make it an account unlock.

Wonderful idea !!!

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

runes of the traveler x6=25% movement speed. +10 to all stats +2% crit dmg condition duration increase boon duration increase. These runes have fairly good suitability for all professions that want speed boost.

Movement speed boosters. Already available in gem store.

And if my build does NOT use those runes?

Look, the addition of a gem store speed booster would not hurt anyone at all … because its OUT of combat only (and non-functional in WvW) …. so the Traveler’s Runes would STILL be good for certain builds … but for everyone else that does not use those runes, the speed booster would be a nice QoL option.

thefinnster.7105:

whose gona like the idea of a skin that dosent match our t3 armour tho and totaly throws of the look you have created
id love to see the concept implimented somehow its an effect i would love to have and would go out my way to get
no so sure a skin is the way to go tho

true true … perhaps a skin that does nothing more than copy the appearance of the item its being put on in the first place, or perhaps not a skin at all … but an account wide booster that’s always on once you buy it …. how they manage it really does not matter, but adding it would be a very nice QoL addition and an extra source of revenue for Anet.

Speed Boost Skin (more money for Anet! )

Hello Anet Devs … here’s an idea that I think BOTH you guys AND the players will like:
Create an OUT of combat ONLY +25% run speed foot/boot skin and sell it for 600 gems or so. Make it so it does NOT work in WvW or PvP …

Many players (myself included) dislike having to constantly click the utilities with swiftness just to run around Lion’s Arch or the open world PvE zones … so I’m pretty sure there would be a large market of players for an out-of-combat PVE +25% speed skin. And since the speed-boost skin would be out of combat only, it would have ZERO effect on builds.

As to what skin to make it, don’t know. Perhaps a simple “invisible” skin will do. Or, you guys could create a specific skin that changes the foot-gear appearance and add an on-off option like you do for back-pieces.

I think you guys could make a nice little bit of coin by adding this simple Quality of Life item. And I think the players would be appreciative.

Thank you.

ooopps … meant to put this in the Suggestion Forum, … SORRY

Hello Anet Devs … here’s an idea that I think BOTH you guys AND the players will like:
Create an OUT of combat ONLY +25% run speed foot/boot skin and sell it for 600 gems or so. Make it so it does NOT work in WvW or PvP …

Many players (myself included) dislike having to constantly click the utilities with swiftness just to run around Lion’s Arch or the open world PvE zones … so I’m pretty sure there would be a large market of players for an out-of-combat PVE +25% speed skin. And since the speed-boost skin would be out of combat only, it would have ZERO effect on builds.

As to what skin to make it, don’t know. Perhaps a simple “invisible” skin will do. Or, you guys could create a specific skin that changes the foot-gear appearance and add an on-off option like you do for back-pieces.

I think you guys could make a nice little bit of coin by adding this simple Quality of Life item. And I think the players would be appreciative.

Thank you.

Healing signet is in no way OP … so I can’t help you ‘fix’ what is not broken.

The Ranger forums are doing the usual … despite the buffs and solid changes, the tears are flowing and the exaggerated claims are pouring out.

Good Patch overall; with some good solid buffs and positive changes for Rangers.

Well done Anet.

Nihevil.8024:

Pets have almost 50% less hp in wvw/spvp, kitten?

Thanks anet.

Smartly done by Anet.

Bravo Anet.

It’s totally necessary for sPvP … no reasonable person can argue that.

And it would solve NOTHING in the mindless WvW zerg fighting (where a 30% or so pet immunity to AoE damage is what is needed). And for skilled WvW soloers and small group roamers, just as in sPvP, the extra health would be inappropriate.

TESO will be the only real competition to GW2 in the near future.

And ironically, now that Gw2 is a vertical progression game just like WoW , TESO will be able to compete with Gw2 for its ENTIRE player base now that Gw2’s original core-base of horizontal progression players have nothing to hold them to this game.

I really don’t know how well TESO will fare, and it’s impossible to judge based on trailers. But folks should not get their hopes up too much, and really should wait at least 6 months after TESOs game release to make an informed opinion. Because God knows we all should have learned by now not to put a single speck of credence in any game company’s pre-game promises and marketing.

Folks, just drop the subject, you just won’t get anywhere responding to these type of threads. Because the self-righteous arbiters of what is “proper” clothing/armor will dismiss any counter-argument from us less enlightened primitives.

You see, we live in an age of political correctness, where every angry self-entitled ninny feels they have the right not to be offended; in other words, they feel they have the right to dictate to others what is right and wrong, appropriate or inappropriate and so on. Of course when you point out the self-contradiction in this stance, in that others could be offended by what these self-appointed guardians of what is proper may say, do or wear … forget it, you’re just spitting in the wind. Because these holders of the one and only “truth” cannot be reasoned with. And there’s no end to them these days, there is literally an army of these finger-wagging school marm types around every corner. Yes, they’re everywhere, and they love to “remind” you what a racist, sexist, homophobic, patriarchal and unenlightened creature you are.

So don’t waste your time trying to reason with them, they don’t work that way.

Tarnished Coast ,,, by far.

As to the Role-Players, and role playing in general – I find it ridiculous and weird. On the other hand, I’m fairly sure some of those RPers find my obsessive min-maxing builds and hyper-competiveness over a video game somewhat ridiculous and weird. So perhaps this is why TC is the best server, because when you mix a large group of weirdo’s together … sometimes you get the most fun.

Tarnished Coast #1

GOSU.9574:

Ision.3207:

Mesket.5728:

Facepunch.5710:

“This armor addition was objectively wrong because it makes me feel cheated.” The reality is no one was cheated. The armor looks similar but it’s not the same. No ‘prestige’ was lost, if it ever existed, because it’s still clear which of these is the human cultural and which is the gem store armor. This is a logical argument.

I would be 100% agree with you if this was World of Warcraft. But its not.

This game is based on skins, nothing else. For a game like this, you argument is as logical as Data from star trek can be logical, failing to see the true meaning of some things, even as stupid as virtual costumes.

You seem to have confused GW2 with a horizontal progression game where unique and exclusive skins are in themselves the BiS max gear. However this game is no longer a horizontal progression game, but a standard and traditional vertical progression game just like WoW or LotRO …. and as such, this game is now about grinding for max stats, not skins. So if you want to be unique, be the guy that can ping the most pink/max stat gear.

Ahh but you are confused on what was sold and what was purchased. Horizontal progession is exactly what was sold, but it was a bait and switch. Right from the start Anet changed from their selling lines to a vertical progression Power Creep game.

I am not shocked in the least they have decided to take the appearance progression and make it Pay. They already sold out any standards they previously had, why stop there? They will continue to do what they want the way they want and YOU will just have to deal with it. They have thrown this up in the players faces time and time again. YOU WILL DEAL WITH IT.

Again there will be no official response to this complaint. They made a decision, you will DEAL with it. The only official response you will find in this thread, if any, will be promises to lock the thread.

Oh I am far from confused on this subject matter … read my posts here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Exotic-Vs-Currently-Available-Ascended/page/4

The bottom line is that in a traditional vertical progression game, like GW2, unique skins are not really that important. So it’s perfectly consistent on Anet’s part to offer any and all skins they so desire for easy purchase or access.

BTW, +1 on your post.

Mesket.5728:

Facepunch.5710:

“This armor addition was objectively wrong because it makes me feel cheated.” The reality is no one was cheated. The armor looks similar but it’s not the same. No ‘prestige’ was lost, if it ever existed, because it’s still clear which of these is the human cultural and which is the gem store armor. This is a logical argument.

I would be 100% agree with you if this was World of Warcraft. But its not.

This game is based on skins, nothing else. For a game like this, you argument is as logical as Data from star trek can be logical, failing to see the true meaning of some things, even as stupid as virtual costumes.

You seem to have confused GW2 with a horizontal progression game where unique and exclusive skins are in themselves the BiS max gear. However this game is no longer a horizontal progression game, but a standard and traditional vertical progression game just like WoW or LotRO …. and as such, this game is now about grinding for max stats, not skins. So if you want to be unique and have gear that’s considered prestigious, be the guy that can ping the most pink/max stat gear.

BobbyT.7192:

Pay 2 win would be paying for an ascended weapon, fancy skin or not. To most, getting BIS gear would be considered end game.

Agreed.

The OP has confused Gw2 with a horizontal progression game, where unique skins are in themselves the BiS gear.

Actually, putting the t3 human cultural in the gem store is perfectly consistent with a typical vertical progression game like GW2.

In a horizontal progression game uniqueness and exclusivity are generally reserved for gear skins. The high-end skins are what take the most grind and/or effort. But as of November 2012 GW2 officially became a vertical progression game. And as such, it’s not the look of your gear that matters, but the stats on them. High-end gear is now defined by MAX stats, NOT by unique appearance.

And while it’s true that in games like WoW or LotRO (and now GW2) max stat gear typically also has unique skins as well, it’s also true that the appearance of that gear is merely a secondary reward soon to be rendered meaningless whenever the next tier of max stat gear is introduced.

So given that GW2 is in no way unique to the MMO genre, and merely represents the latest incarnation of typical vertical progression games, offering popular skins in the gem store is perfectly in-line with the games new (but traditional) philosophy.

OP, “Pay to Win” in this game, just like WoW, would be the introduction of higher-stat based gear in the gem store. What you’re thinking of is a horizontal progression game, but that’s not GW2.

Actually, putting the t3 human cultural in the gem store is perfectly consistent with a typical vertical progression game like GW2.

In a horizontal progression game uniqueness and exclusivity are generally reserved for gear skins. The high-end skins are what take the most grind and/or effort. But as of November 2012 GW2 officially became a vertical progression game. And as such, it’s not the look of your gear that matters, but the stats on them. High-end gear is now defined by MAX stats, NOT by unique appearance.

And while it’s true that in games like WoW or LotRO (and now GW2) max stat gear typically also has unique skins as well, it’s also true that the appearance of that gear is merely a secondary reward soon to be rendered meaningless whenever the next tier of max stat gear is introduced.

So given that GW2 is in no way unique to the MMO genre, and merely represents the latest incarnation of typical vertical progression games, offering popular skins in the gem store is perfectly in-line with the games new (but traditional) philosophy.

nowitsawn.1276:

Rigel.3092:

Ision.3207:

Because they hit harder than one handed weapons. Basically a 2-hander already comes with a buffed up Sigil of Force on it (within it).

W….H…….A……T……?

Kilandros.2098:

lol

Well then, let’s take a look at the damage formula first:

Damage done = (Weapon Strength) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (target’s Armor)

So a percentual increase in weapon strength increases damage by the same percentage.

And if we look at an ascended 1h sword:
Weapon Strength: 965 – 1066 ~ 1015.5 avg

And an ascended greatsword:
Weapon Strength: 1061 – 1173 ~ 1117 avg (+10%)

This isn’t even counting in the fact that the base skill damage from 2h’s tends to be a little higher than 1-handers on average as well.

Good post. And good to see someone “gets” it. The inherent superior strength of the 2-handers over the 1-handers is in a sense, a sigil in itself (thus my comparison to 2-handers basically having a built in sigil of force – although it would actually be stronger than that). Imagine Dual sigils on a 2-hander like the Warrior Greatsword … LOL.

Dezarys.1372:

Why don’t 2 handed weapons have the option to apply 2 sigils on it?

Because they hit harder than one handed weapons. Basically a 2-hander already comes with a buffed up Sigil of Force on it (within it).

Anet, Great Trailer – BRAVO!

Extra rewards for having done high-level fractels before this patch?

ahahahaha

NO WAY.

And it would be totally undeserved if given.

Please Anet, no more “hand-outs” to the squeaky wheels that cry the loudest.

zaragoz.6351:

I see a ton of talk about buffing the pistol auto, and I tend to agree. However how do you guys feel about the rifle autoattack? It also seems a bit sub-par to me to be personally honest.

For the most part, I think Rifle #1 is in a good place. It’s provides a nice consistent amount of DPS over time.

But Pistol #1 is in a very bad place. This skill desperately needs either 1 more second of bleed, or a good 5% to 7% increase to its direct damage.

pheroth.5306:

JonPeters.5630:

zaragoz.6351:

pheroth.5306:

JonPeters.5630:

Keelin.5781:

Wow. Just wow.

“Oh most engineers take this trait. This limits build variety. Let’s make it harder to get”

How do you arrive at this instead of :

“Oh most engineers take this trait. Maybe the other traits are just really bad compared to it – we should balance things”

This is hopeless.

If all we do is take the worst traits and buff them, then every patch everything gets stronger and eventually the game is broken. The word balance literally means reaching an equilibrium which is in between two end points. This means that in order to reach it things must assuredly go up and down.

I would say this is not what you are accomplishing

I mean its clear that you guys are doing this “zero-sum” sort of balancing, but what you doing here doesn’t make sense.

If you buff a trait to compete with an already awesome trait, the player has to pick between the 2 traits and the strength of the overall engineer should be around equal assuming you can make those traits about even. It’s not like if you buff the trait they also add the power of that new trait; no they have to pick, its either or.

IP is probably the best trait in the adept tier. The other traits in adept are pretty insignificant. The master tier in explosives has strong traits.

Moving IP to master tier means I must pick inferior traits. This is not “zero-sum”, clearly this is negative; a nerf.

Agreed 100% you are taking the best adept trait in the explosives line where there aren’t any other great traits and moving it up to master tier where there are great traits, and justifying it by moving down accelerant packed turrets which is useless as turrets are basically in a really bad place right now. And as ostricheggs has already said you are only hurting fringe builds by doing this such as hybrid users who have limited access to burning. Bomb builds will just grab forceful explosives and IP in the master trait and lose nothing for it, further making people want to run it. So please do tell how this helps build diversity which was your reasoning for moving it in the first place?

For condition engineers we have left Shrapnel intact here as the alternative. For power engineers we have left Empowering Adrenaline intact here as the alternative. No need to argue that these traits are worse than IP, we know that, this is why IP was moved. The real question is why are these not Adept tier worthy, which we think they are…

Ok well about those adept tier traits… I would say that when I pick my traits they change aspects of my character in impactful ways (especially ones that you can clearly see when you play). For example if I get Speedy Kits, I’m always running a lot faster, if I get Protection Injection I can clearly see I’m not being demolished by that Stun Warrior, Invigorating Speed, I regen my endurance twice as fast. These are adept traits.

Empowering Adrenaline – 5% damage, its arguable if thats a significant damage increase. You probably wouldn’t feel the impact in battle, in fact some may not even notice this at all. Now add to the fact that my endurance needs to be not full. So if I using this trait I’m basically saying: “Let’s dodge so I can increase my damage by an amount that I’ll barely even notice”

Exploit Weakness – You could say this has a more impactful effect compared to the previous trait but honestly I find this useless because you can usually use other engineer skills most of the time to accomplish that same thing.

Pheroth, good post, well stated.

I agree with you overall.

Exploit Weakness will be a bit better, and I suppose might be used in some very niche builds.

But Empowering Adrenaline is a joke as it stands now. I can’t imagine anyone ever using this as the adept trait to “splash” their last 10 points in. No way.

Eliminate the, “when endurance is not full” part, and then, yes, then you will have a trait people might use as a nice adept tier neutral trait to splash their last 10 points in. It would not be a “sexy” change, or make for an interesting trait to talk about, but it would work – and would see some (not a lot) of use. But as it stands now, once IP is moved to master tier, unless it’s tweaked a little bit, EA will remain what it is now, a trait that’s never used.

JonPeters.5630:

By difficult, I mean time consuming from either a technical or testing standpoint.

Okay Jon, cool.

I understand that you guys cannot simply change the #1 skills on Pistols, or whatever, without lots of testing. While moving IP to master is simple and quick to implement.

Got it.

The only thing we are asking is that you don’t make the easy fix until the hard fix is addressed. Because in the interim between moving IP to master and the Devs finishing their testing of 3 to 4 weapons and kits (and this could take many-many months) … you will have done more damage (from a balance and build diversity standpoint) than good.

amiable.4823:

If you want to nerf IP, fine, but then please, please, please take a look at pistol 1 and EG 1 and FT 1, the autoattack damage of these skills is just so horrible that they are barely worth using, even in full damage builds. IP was the saving grace of all of these skills and now that its moved up a tier you have basically forced all WvW engineers into a cookie cutter grenade spec so they can be moderately useful as a poor-mans staff ele without the utility.

Edit funny story: As I was typing this up my wife was looking over my shoulder and commented “wow that’s a lot of walls of text.” I responded that Engineers were pretty upset at the new round of nerfs. Not missing a beat she said “What, all five of you?”

Great post ! (and funny too !)

But you basically hit the nail on the head. It’s not that we are all in love with this super-duper over-powered trait called Incendiary Power … it’s simply a case of not having any viable alternatives given the pathetically low auto-attack 1 skills.

And your examples are spot on; Pistol 1 is a complete joke —- so much so, that if you want to get the benefits of P2 and 3 … then IC becomes almost mandatory.

The bottom line is this, when they move IC to master level (and here is where it really truly belongs .. it’s a good trait) without addressing skills like Pistol 1 (and FG1/EG1) … then all they have accomplished is to further pigeonhole Engineers into the Grenade/Bomb builds.

So while I agree that IP does belong in the master tier, please don’t fix this until AFTER you have addressed the reason IP was deemed to be a must have trait in the first place.

Xsorus.2507:

The Biggest change Anet can do right now is removing bloody Signet of the Beastmaster and making that baseline.

Absolutely silly we have to invest 30 points in a line to get the same effect as everyone else.

+1

JonPeters.5630:

One more thing I forgot to mention. The nice thing about Incendiary Powder was that it was a nice build neutral go to for adept tier. Right now the new build neutral traits there are Exploit Weakness and Empowering Adrenaline. I think a good discussion might be why these are not up to par as build neutral adept tier explosives traits.

Jon

Agreed.

I think that eliminating the “endurance not full” part of Empowering Adrenaline would go a long way towards making it a nice build neutral go to for adept tier. Basically it would become an adept tier sigil of force. But don’t expect too much discussion or feedback on this trait because A. it does not enhance condition damage for the popular nades/bombs builds, and B. it’s just not a “sexy” trait to talk about like IC – lol.

But yes, a tiny little tweak to Empowering Adrenaline like eliminating the endurance requirement would go a long way to seeing it used at times by the non- grenade players.

oZii.2864:

30 Arcana is good because it is traits which give you effect not specifically tied to your weapon set or attunement.

It is like many other class mechanic trait lines. Trickery, Illusions, Discipline, Soul Reaping. Many people tell you it is certain traits the cd reduction is a side benefit for most(probably because they are just use to the timing now).

The popular traits in Arcana are elemental attunement, renewing stamina and EA. Traits that will give you good benefits regardless of your build which is why they are popular.

Other classes I play

Class mechanic line popular choices

Warrior : Discipline – Signet Mastery, Warrior sprint, Burst Mastery, mobile strikes, Vigor on focus, fast hands at 15 point minor is actually really good and always considered in warrior builds.

Necromancer: Soul Reaping – Path of Midnight(cd reduction on DS skills), Foot in the grave, Master of terror, soul marks.

Thief – Trickery – Sleight of hand, bountiful theft, thrill of the crime, flanking strikes, caltrops on dodge/

Mesmer – Illusions – Compounding power, Masterful Reflection, master of misdirection, illusionary invigoration, illusionary persona.

The theme you can see is trait choices that will give you benefit regardless of your build type, Those are the most popular traits in those lines and fit with why arcana traits are popular also. The side benefit is the extra death shroud life, burst cooldown reduction, shatter recharge rate and steal cooldown.

Mesmer would be the class I say has the more niche traits that get picked up in their class mechanic line when IC was a 5 point minor was when you saw more mesmers go deeper into illusions on builds.

TL&DR – Arcana is a popular tree beause the traits in it can give you benefit regardless of the build you are running it has flexible traits.

A well-stated and excellent post. +1

Hi Jon, and thanks for this sneak preview. I think it’s great that you guys are approaching class changes in this transparent fashion, while also seeking community input.

Bravo.

Question: Isn’t time you guys took a look at the Engineer trait “Empowering Adrenaline” … now here is a trait that virtually no one ever uses in any build I know of. The problem with it is the requirement that your endurance cannot be full in order to receive the small 5% damage increase. Perhaps if you simply left it as a flat 5% damage increase without the requirement of less than full endurance it would see more play? What’s more, with your recent decision to move Incendiary Power from Adept to Master (and yes, I agree that IC is properly a master level trait), a tiny change along the lines I have proposed might be in order given the extraordinary popularity of IC in a very great number of Engineer builds.

Thanks.

JonPeters.5630:

Summation of high risk concerns for elementalist.

Last but definitely not least.

Arcana
I see the logic in not wanting the two changes in this line to counter each other. Moving good adept traits to master level is contrary to reducing the need to spec into this line. That being said, Elemental Attunement is just a beast of a trait and could honestly be compared with most grandmaster traits. I think a good compromise would be to place Renewing Stamina back in the adept tier, placing is where the other professions get this type of trait, and instead move Final Shielding to the master tier where it could live alongside Arcane Retribution as two good choices in arcane builds that take Arcane Mastery in the adept tier. That could leave some interesting builds such as: 0/30/30/0/10 for fresh air, diamond skin, and renewing stamina. It also still leaves builds that put only 10 points in Arcana a chance to gain Protection by going 30 air for Tempest Defense, and 10 Earth for Elemental Shielding and still have 30 points leftover.

I still believe there is work to be done at the grandmaster tier in Fire at the very minimum and that Air and Water are the only truly good grandmaster choice right now. There are also still a handful of just terrible traits that will still get looked at, but we felt like we were already bordering on changing too much.

Thanks,

Jon

P.S. bug fix for Lingering Elements is coming on Nov. 26th as well.

Thanks for addressing the Ele forum Jon.

But most of all, thanks for saying this, " I think a good compromise would be to place Renewing Stamina back in the adept tier, placing is where the other professions get this type of trait, and instead move Final Shielding to the master tier where it could live alongside Arcane Retribution as two good choices in arcane builds that take Arcane Mastery in the adept tier. " That’s a good solution and solid compromise.

Hi Isaiah, and thanks for your efforts with the Ranger profession.

Just a couple of questions:

1. Main-hand Axe … Currently MH-Axe is considered a highly underpowered weapon (especially it’s skill-1), are there any plans to improve the direct damage of its #1 attack-skill by 5% or so? Also, any plans to look at skill 2, split-blade, and perhaps tweak it so the blades miss less often when not in point-blank range of your opponent?

2. Longbow … You guys did a great job with the rework of Hunter’s Shot, but currently the tiered damage on LB attack skill #1 is greatly disliked by a vast number of Rangers, are there any plans to eliminate the tiered damage based on range, and instead have a flat damage number regardless of range?

That’s all from me, since I’m sure you will be flooded with pet questions and trait-line questions from others. Thanks.

Raine, I hear you, lol. I never suggested that you begin threads like this, so I don’t know what you’re referring to as far as that goes. All I am saying is that the writing is on the wall, and it’s loud and clear. I’ll give you 2 possible scenarios, and ask yourself, which is more likely:

1. In regards to backtracking on Horizontal Progression, Anet gives a small mea culpa as you say. They assure us that Ascended is it, and all progression going forward will be Horizontal. They introduce Ascended Armor, and then move on to Horizontal progression for years to come>

2. Anet releases Ascended armor, followed by Ascended Sigils or Runes, and then followed by ascended this, and then followed by ascended that … and so on. Time passes, and another year has gone by. Vertical progression is even more accepted as normal, the demographics change even more towards traditional VP mmo players. Anet finally exhausts the “ascended” avenue of VP, and soon afterwards release an expansion with 5 new levels, a new class, and …. tada! … a new set of gear to grind.

Given what occurred last November, a mere 3 months after years of marketing Gw2 in the manner they did, my money’s on option 2 ….

And as far as Colin’s comment about horizontal skill progression goes, I believe him. I think they are going to do that slowly over time … except it won’t be “instead” of VP, but “in addition to” vertical progression.

Still and all though, as far as grindy Vertical Progression mmo’s go, Gw2 is pretty good, and I’ll take it over WoW or Lotro.

OP, I think you will eventually see some solo instances designed. For example, Lord of the Rings Online had almost exactly what you are referring to. Basically they created about 6 mini-dungeons that were designed for solo (although they also had a “single” henchman you could take with you). At any rate, I think you will see it, because despite the “multi-player” part of MMO, a huge percentage of MMO players are primarily solo players, so I doubt they will ignore that demographic for too long.