Guild Wars 2

Gene Archer.8560:

tolunart.2095:

What you need to do is demonstrate how to determine whether there is a problem and JS can plug in the numbers and see if there is some merit to your claims.

I already did this. It was ignored outright. And I don’t mean JS said “I put in the numbers, there’s no problem”

I mean he never even responded.

I honestly don’t know to what you’re referring, maybe I missed it?

Wanze.8410:

Rouven.7409:

John Smith.4610:

I actually do have ways of measuring the emotional side, but the forums are only one variable and have to be compared to other sources of data. I would definitely not use surveys or exit interviews as they are massively biased data sources and I personally am not a fan of either in this setting.

Interesting. Are you able to elaborate or give a general example of how this works? How accurate would you deem that way of measuring? I’m sure there are ways to establish patterns and cross referencing them (in-game TP browsing perhaps?) but surely this data cannot be complete, although I assume it will average out over the masses.

At the end of his shift he simply calculates, how much rare weapons have been thrown into the mystic forge. Destroying rare weapons generates players tears. The more rares are thrown in, the more tears. Thats how you accurately measure the emotional side.

Tears are the source of my evil powers, but not a source of data…………yet.

I definitely would not consider the data “complete”, but you are correct that in large sets it’s telling and accurate. The specifics, I’m afraid, are proprietary at this point.

Rouven.7409:

The other would be the emotional side which always be dismissed as anecdotal evidence because no one is measuring it (e.g. surveys, exit interviews), or to phrase this better – measuring this would need additional steps and due to the nature of emotions (e.g. ragequitters) are not as accurate.

I actually do have ways of measuring the emotional side, but the forums are only one variable and have to be compared to other sources of data. I would definitely not use surveys or exit interviews as they are massively biased data sources and I personally am not a fan of either in this setting.

Essence Snow.3194:

That’s how science is done when you don’t already have the information. If you have the information the prep work is mostly pointless.

Why won’t you release the data like you did early on?

There’s a whole thread about it. Releasing information like that is incredibly time consuming and wildly expensive and it can’t be at the top of my priority list at the moment, because I have a lot of things to do. I come to the forums to still attempt to give you answers and interact with the community with what limited time I have.

Essence Snow.3194:

You can quote that all day long but it wont be improving your position.

Like I mentioned b4 I am not going to do a whole write up on something that he already has information on. That’s busy work that serves no purpose but to amuse him, which I’m not gullible enough to do. It’s asking someone to run through hoops when there’s no need for it.

If he releases wealth distribution data I’ll be more than happy to oblige.

I fail to see how requesting that you lay out your proposed method for proving there is a problem is “busy work”. This is how science is done, create a hypothesis, create a test method, carry out a test. I’m sorry if this sounds pedantic.

Prince, you’re not helping the discussion, if you continue to resort to ad hominem you won’t be welcome anymore.

DavidSev.6978:

Here what I want from the stats: I want to know how many players flip stuff, and what percentage of trades that is.

Doesn’t need to be an accurate figure, just a ball-park will do.

As to how to get that… It’s too late for me to properly engage my brain but I’m thinking get a month moving average of every players buys and sells for each item, and compare the variance between the number brought and sold. A flipper will be selling a similar number to what they brought, and a “normal” player will have most items being either mostly brought or mostly sold.

And then break it down by market. (EG T1 mats, dyes, weapons, etc)

If flippers only count for a few percent of trades, then who cares. If they are 90% then it’s a very important issue. A figure could be interesting though.

Interesting, but meaningless unless you’re interested in the GW2 playerbase’s personal preferences.

Essence Snow.3194:

John Smith.4610:

Essence Snow.3194:

That’ll I can agree with. If we ever get access to some hard data, we’ll be in a much better place to say the least.

Please explain to me what your process would be for proving your theories if you had the data.

Start by seeing if there was a wealth gap, how large if present, and if it was growing. Then I could go from there.

This does not answer my question. Feel free to make assumptions as you go, fork the ideas as if drawing a decision tree. This is how I would recommend beginning the analysis with or without data.

Essence Snow.3194:

That’ll I can agree with. If we ever get access to some hard data, we’ll be in a much better place to say the least.

Please explain to me what your process would be for proving your theories if you had the data.

phys.7689:

John Smith.4610:

This is spiraling. Let’s stop discussing possible “solutions”. Before discussing a solution you must first prove a problem. I have yet to see any evidence internally or externally that there is a problem.

Speculation on player wealth is not evidence of a problem.
An anecdote is not evidence unless it demonstrates a systemic problem.

Logic and reasoning are the only evidence we can have at our disposal, data points are something only you have access to.

Heres why having wealth disparity is bad.
People with an abnormal amount of wealth control the value of highly desirable items.

Now im not going to say they are manipulating or whatever, but the fact is, if you want to get an item that is highly desirable, you have to compete with people who can make much more than you can in the same time frame on the market.

Imagine you and a rich man have both lived your life in the pursuit of cool cars. Bill makes a cool car. You cannot compete with rich man for this car, even if you have put in equal work, because he makes more per unit of time than you do. In fact his earnings are geometric (to a limit) while yours are only additive.

Now, while this might be ok, if he was a better car man than you, he is not, he is simply better at making money.

Essentially endgame is controlled by the wealthy

This is the kind of post I mean when I say evidence. I don’t require numbers I require a coherent idea that makes sense in this setting. If I think it’s valid I’ll be researching it myself (assuming I haven’t already).
This one I have researched though. My response is a couple of points:
1. MMOs have homogeneous good, this means there’s no differentiation from your item from someone else’s copy of that same item. This comes into play because it rules out quality control/competition.
2. I know you said it already, but I’ll restate, that prices of high end goods aren’t being controlled.
3. The prices of high end goods are VERY close, if not exactly the same, to what they would be without any “TP Barons” wanting those items. There’s too much velocity for individual rich people to influence the supply/demand equation all that much, which is the only control they have if they aren’t manipulating prices.

This is a virtual economy, you may not assign the same speculative rules.
Read through why increasing wealth inequality is bad for a real economy and then apply that setting to gw2 as an argument.

PS Eve does not have a global economy.

Flippers increase liquidity and bring prices closer to equilibrium, almost always lowering prices and providing preferences to other players. I see no reason why anyone would want to stop that.

The fact that you want to change the BLTC to Ellen Kiel’s anything seems a pretty good indicator that it’s a bad idea.

:)

This is spiraling. Let’s stop discussing possible “solutions”. Before discussing a solution you must first prove a problem. I have yet to see any evidence internally or externally that there is a problem.

Speculation on player wealth is not evidence of a problem.
An anecdote is not evidence unless it demonstrates a systemic problem.

It’s unlikely that you’ve ever traded on a market that hasn’t sold an item in the last 2 hours.

This is not an acceptable comment and we will not spend time disparaging each others culture on this forum.

I do think it’s fair to say though that in many countries there is some unrest with the level of political power being wielded by smaller groups (note I’m making 0 value judgement on the concept itself, but it’s fair to say the idea exists) and this idea can sometimes be extended to an argument of wealth disparity. That unrest may be being projected into this environment, but I still see no evidence of that being an issue in GW2.

I’ve seen his nobel lecture, but I don’t think that’s what you’re referring to.

I like your thought process and it’s a smart idea to attempt to introduce n-testing into the TP to find the values. The downside is it would be a lot of work to implement without any evidence that we wouldn’t end up keeping the same system we have.

Essence Snow.3194:

I’ll refer you to Shiller. I believe you can draw enough correlations to respond.

Could you provide a bit more context, I’m not as familiar with Dr. Shiller’s works as I probably should be.

It’s possible I’ve missed it and I apologize if that’s true, but I haven’t seen any evidence or even a correct hypothesis that a group of the rich can negatively effect your gameplay experience. I think a clear set of ideas would help me understand and respond to the issue.

P.S. Don’t say luxury goods or I will refer you to the first rule of the tautology club.

Let’s refrain from referencing an entire nation of people categorically, it’s not good business.

Let’s simplify the debate a bit. We have a lot of variables in discussion, let’s say that TP Fees are still a factor, but controlling inflation and gold sinks are not.

Furthermore let’s assume that we all agree that 1c holds a virtual non-value on goods above X price. How do you determine a system that effectively chooses what an appropriate value is that doesn’t
1. Injure the market 2. Discourage use of the TP
Note: this value may be algorithmic, but you must PROVE the values are effective. You may assume you have perfect data of the TP if you need it to support a hypothesis.

Let’s simmer down a bit, this is getting necessarily heated. I believe the issue in question is, does a minimum increment of of 1c effectively represent a different willingness to pay or willingness to buy from the original price being compared against, and does that answer change relative to the end price of the item.

Obviously, in some cases 1c is just fine, but is that true in all cases? Why or Why not?
It’s much harder to prove that it is the same price because “technically” it’s a different price, so the origin lies on those who believe that it’s not an effective difference. I think an argument can be made somewhere, but lets do it as academically as possible. have to run, but I’ll be back to check on this shortly.

There are about 17 reasons I cannot answer that question.

An increase in the tax rate would simply get passed on to consumers, with a little bit being absorbed by sellers. It would not be an effective tax on the rich.

The two week golem is for every character.

Tentonhammr.7849:

John Smith.4610:

The mystic forge changes are a work in progress. What I will promise is that when it is done you will like it much better than you do now.

The number of rares and exotics I’ve chucked into the forge (for science!) is absolutely staggering. I would like to take a moment and share with all of you what I’ve learned about the forge: you put 4 items in and get 1 item back.

That is all.

Wow, the number is in fact staggering.

Meglobob.8620:

John Smith.4610:

Meglobob.8620:

Cheers John!

I virtually never died, so with nerf to champion loot/events I will be considerably worse off gold wise.

Cheers again John, thanks very much!

You’ve died 895 times.

Errrm…actually I assume you were having me on…being legendary and all because after logging in and typing /deaths /age I came up with the following:-

80th lvl Ranger deaths 1,471
80th lvl Necromancer 144
80th lvl Guardian 597
80th lvl Mesmer 252
80th lvl Warrior 913
80th lvl Thief 118
80th lvl Engineer 136
80th lvl Elementalist 373
2nd lvl Warrior (PvP only character) 375

Total Deaths 4,379
Hours played 1,739

Hopefully, you were ‘pulling my leg’ and your ingame meterics are not off…

I actually only pulled 2014, I thought that was more reasonable

The mystic forge changes are a work in progress. What I will promise is that when it is done you will like it much better than you do now.

mtpelion.4562:

Champ farming was a TERRIBLE way to try and make gold. It was mainly for XP, crafting materials, karma, and luck, none of which are impacted by this change.

If you were farming champs for the gold drops… I mean… I don’t even know what to say…. maybe “don’t”?

It’s true that champ farming is by a wide margin not the best way to make gold (not counting TP either)

Smooth Penguin.5294:

John Smith.4610:

Try copy and paste, the linking from forums is being weird.

This job is to be the John Smith of the GW2-Chinese client. I don’t want such responsibilities. Just let me grab your morning coffee, and you can pay me with Gem discounts, and a 12 hour buffer for knowing which mats will be important for upcoming game changes.

/grin

That job is to make my life easier while I John Smith while learning to John Smith.

Wanze.8410:

John, i know you´re double chained, crippled and immobilized by NDA´s but if you can find just one Guardian to buff you some stability and maybe disclose some values on gold sinks and springs that would be appreciated. I dont look for values but relative %.
Especially i would be interested in gold sunk by repair cost on average per month and gold generated by champ loot bags and dynamic events.

Personally, i dont think that info on that would hurt the economy. And it will hurt the EOTM train harder than the frostgorge or queensdale train.

Sorry, even guardians aren’t that strong.

Try copy and paste, the linking from forums is being weird.

and lol no eleshazar, I often get overworked when people intentionally spread false information to the uninformed, it’s a hot button of mine. Other than that I’m a very (pleasant?) individual.

Nothing about that statement is false.

http://ch.tbe.taleo.net/CH05/ats/careers/requisition.jsp?org=NCSOFT&cws=1&rid=1518

Meglobob.8620:

Elrey.5472:

Meglobob.8620:

I virtually never died

John Smith.4610:

You’ve died 895 times.

Meglobob.8620:

But I die a lot less now…

Don’t try to fix it, that was a burn on the face hahaha.

I was not expecting my deaths to be quoted back to me, correct.

That’s why John Smith is Legendary

Even when he makes me poor and takes gold from my poor 8×80th lvl characters mouths…

To be fair, you do die less now

You can opt out of waypoints I don’t feel that it’s the same as repair.
Also 14.6506g in total cost, you guys are good!

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

Johns first mistakes in this patch. I knew it had to come. It probably isn’t even for convenience, but jsut to nerf the gold existing in the market.

My personal economy lesson for John. Undue the repair change. Continu with scarlet alike npc’s. Currency + gold to get something. Selfless potion is like what, 500 armor repairs? Repeat these, and you will have more sink then the not so clever repair cost overhaul.

I find this very confusing, could you elaborate a bit?

Hello all, I’ve unlocked this thread for a moment to give you the stats on “manipulation” and flipping I pulled last night.

On average, anyone who “flipped” dyes during the 10 hours of volatility lost just over 5 gold. This stat required you to both buy and sell dyes, but left in any personal Udye the user had so it would skew towards making money. Overall players attempting to flip lost several thousand gold and these people comprised only a small portion of the market.

Closing this topic since we know it’s a bug and it’s getting off-topic.

Morsus.5106:

So, I logged onto the game today and found I had 1001 gems. I don’t remember buying any gems, so is the game glitchy or have I lost it?
EDIT: Never mind, I relogged and found I was back to 0 gems. Not sure if I should be relieved that I’m not insane (or worse, my account been hacked) or disappointed that I no longer have 1001 gems.

You could still be insane, but what you’re noticing is a minor bug.

Risingashes.8694:

It used to be bugged and was LIFO 8 months ago.

But it was fixed and has been FIFO ever since.

I think you may misunderstand how the system works again. I recommend you go to gw2Spidy and look at some of the charts over time. Also take a little bit of time to look at how the trading post really works and then reformulate your problem. I’m happy to answer any questions you might have.

Mystic.5934:

If the highest offer for a shredded rag is 1s, then there will be people that have offered less than 1s. these people are not offering 50c because that’s how much they think shredded rags are worth or can’t afford more – these people are offering 50c because shredded rags used to be worth 50c and their offer is hella old. Most likely, among the players offering 1s are the same people who are currently offering 50c. It’s quicker to just place a new offer than increase an old offer. Plus, if the price ever goes down, they will be the first that they get sold to.

This is a very broad generalization that I don’t believe is true. Be careful not to assume that individual experience comprise a “most likely” situation.

A couple of points to consider:
A Trading Post is not an Auction House and that is an intentional decision.
When a player posts a buy or sell order, that player is making a public statement. I am willing to pay this money or trade this item at this price. Those who offer the highest willingness to pay get matched first. I don’t see anything but market failures and weird scams coming from a system that allows arbitrary trading. Our system now works quickly and efficiently and gives (virtually) everyone what they’re asking for.
This system was not designed intentionally to enhance the quantity of gold sunk, that’s simply a byproduct of an efficient market.

Found it.

Using the trading post is a safer method of trading and simultaneously makes the game more robust. We believe that between mail and the trading post the game is much safer and still contains all the functionality needed.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/bltc/Player-to-Player-trading/first#post93549

Palador.2170:

John Smith.4610:

Pretty sure this has been discussed already with official responses as well, someone should link them.

Good idea, Mr Someone.

Someone should also ask if there’s been any progress on getting a better search function for the forums, so it’s easier to find those responses.

((But seriously, I’m surprised you don’t have a collection of standard replies to the repeating questions/suggestions in a file somewhere, so you can just copy/paste them as needed.))

[Edit] PS: Short version is they’ve said no. But I’m too lazy to look up the actual postings for you. Just… trust me. They’ve said no.

If I needed someone else to be lazy I would have asked for that ><