Guild Wars 2

I was going to do a point by point response, but there is just way too much.

You have a handful of suggestions I would agree with, but none of them have anything to do with Heart of Thorns. This is not a Feature Patch. The things that are added in this will only impact those who purchase this. Some changes are being made, but they seem to be scheduled well in advance of the expansion.

Many of these things are just your opinion and not reasonable. Many of these don’t actually make anything better, nor fix anything but a perceived problem, rather than an actual one.

So, even despite agreeing with some things I have to say no to the whole. Your proposal and suggestions are misplaced and deserve no consideration.

Knighthonor.4061:

Kal Spiro.9745:

OH NOES! RNGESUS SAVE ME!

RNG is RNG?

Not sure what you want. Some people don’t get anything, some people get everything. Welcome to the outliers.

Nothing in computer programming is truly RANDOM.

That’s a misconception. RNG is the illusion of randomness.

Everything is the illusion of randomness. If you know all the variables nothing is random.

OH NOES! RNGESUS SAVE ME!

RNG is RNG?

Not sure what you want. Some people don’t get anything, some people get everything. Welcome to the outliers.

Azrael.4960:

Meh they look silly and don’t even flap . sticking with my holo dragon wings

I’m so glad they don’t flap. I hate that the other wings flap even though I’m standing still and definitely not flying.

Donari.5237:

Kal Spiro.9745:

What price?

500 gems for the wings.

Nice, that’s way cheaper than I expected.

What price?

gumoor.5674:

I knew fully well what the reward would be. I’m providing the suggestion to remove them or increase them since, at least for me, it was like saying, “Good dog…let me throw you a rotten bone”. I would have been more content just finishing the collection. I didn’t need a reminder that I just contributed to a huge gold sink.

Nothing you’re saying makes any sense.

I am reading out of this: “ANet gave me the ability to get a minor reward out of something I don’t have to do or really have any reason to do, but can if I kinda want to.”

“Because this thing existed I am compelled to do it, and that compulsion cost 30 gold to fulfill.”

“I knew it wasn’t worth 30 gold to do, but I did it anyway. I knew the reward would be insignificant but when I got it I felt insulted.”

“I want ANet to stop insulting me for things I can’t stop myself from doing.”

Am I misunderstanding you? Because what you should actually be getting out of this is: “This is a minor reward you can get if you happen to complete it throughout your playing the game. You don’t have to complete it, but if you do we want to acknowledge that with this small favor. We hope you enjoyed it.”

Gandalf.3516:

Kal Spiro.9745:

I super can’t stand GW1. It’s very disappointing because I want to play it. I need to play it even. It’s the only way I’ll get a raccoon mini and I REALLY want that raccoon mini for my main. But it’s just so bad, and I can’t do it. It isn’t even that it’s hard, cause it really isn’t. It’s just bad.

I absolutely love GW1 but not gonna lie, it’s hard to do anything in it after playing GW2 so long. It can be frustrating not to be able to do something as simple as jumping. But I think if you put enough time into it, you’d get used to it and enjoy it on some level. How far did you get?

Haven’t even gotten out of Ascalon yet. I have a pretty sound Ranger/Necro build that’s all about regen and fights are just boring at all hell. I think I’m level 14, so I’m at whatever part of the story fits that level range. But it’s been three years now, so I don’t know.

Knighthonor.4061:

Gandalf.3516:

BrunoBRS.5178:

i for one prefer GW2, but both games are so different it’s quite silly to compare them in the first place.

Not at all. Guild Wars 2 is a sequel to Guild Wars. Comparing them is only natural.

I disagree that GW2 is a sequel to GW1.

Its more like a continued of the IP.

Calling GW2 a sequel, is like calling World of Warcraft a sequel to Warcraft 3…. just saying.

Um, it is. WoW is actually more a sequel to WC3 than GW is. It’s more like calling Star Wars: The Old Republic a sequel to Knights of the Old Republic. They both exist in the same world, but spread out by so much time that the events of the one really have no baring on the events of the second, with only minor overlap.

WoW’s storyline is pretty much a direct continuation of WC3, so that’s actually a legitimate sequel, just in a different genre.

HellraiserMachina.4215:

^So… The extra character slots are worth it? I am saving until 100g to get one, but that sounds like a tough move.

I would definitely not be worrying about indecision if I had all the slots. Is buying it worth it, then?

It’s only worth it if you actually want to play those characters. If you’re not sure you even enjoy them, then no, it really isn’t worth it.

HellraiserMachina.4215:

Here’s a slightly deeper question I’ve been thinking in recent days to do with enjoying a class, and learning that you want to keep going with it to 80.

I am a slow leveller. I have had GW2 since Dec 2012 but my highest char is a lv.46 Thief, this is the highest I’ve gotten with one because I thoroughly enjoy the Thief’s playstyle and I think it fits me.

However… I have not had the same luck with other classes, and I want to know how I can tell when I am ready to try and push for 80 on another character the way I do with my main Thief.

I’ve gone with the Ranger, but got quickly bored because of the skillsets (you’re just shooting arrows, slashing with swords, etc. Where’s the fun?) and discarded that.

Then I ran with a Necro and had the time of my life in PvP, but could not motivate myself to play one in PvE for some reason.

Those are my examples. I now ask you, how can you guys tell if you enjoy a class or not, and what makes you try to level them to 80?

This is a tough one to tackle. It’s REALLY easy to level in this game. So easy, in fact, that it seems like you should have accidentally leveled to 80 in this time, even if not on purpose. I currently have one of every class at 80, and multiples of some. I don’t cater to the idea of carrying around multiple sets of gear and respeccing on the fly. If I want to play a different build I’ll make a character of that build. The problem, though, with leveling the way you are is that some characters don’t get fun until much higher level when their traits start falling in line, and their gear is better.

My least enjoyed character was by far my staff elementalists. The last one on my list here, that I just got to 80. I absolutely love her now. It turns out she’s really good in dungeons, and a lot stronger than I gave her credit for when I first started.

If you like your Necro for PvP, play your necro in PvP and don’t worry about the rest of the game. Find the niche for your characters and play them where they’re enjoyable.

I super can’t stand GW1. It’s very disappointing because I want to play it. I need to play it even. It’s the only way I’ll get a raccoon mini and I REALLY want that raccoon mini for my main. But it’s just so bad, and I can’t do it. It isn’t even that it’s hard, cause it really isn’t. It’s just bad.

You’re not describing human personal story here. This is more like Living World story as it pertains to the humans.

There will be no special personal story based on race with HoT. The Devs have pretty much said as much when they repeatedly point out that you don’t get personal story with classes. There will be the HoT story which we can expect to be primarily in Maguuma, and eventually there will be more Living World which we have no way of knowing where and how that will work out.

phys.7689:

Kal Spiro.9745:

I agree. Silk should not be so misrepresented. They should boost the requirements of everything to match silk.

this wouldnt really solve the imbalance completely, because mithril is farmable, and leather is still used less in ascended recipes.
it would have an effect.

But if your goal is to have balance, the question becomes which is better balanced in terms of how much grinding it should take to get best in slot.`

I dont think it should take 4-5 hours a day for 36 days to get best in slot for armor alone

Nah, I just hope it will bring up the price on the other mats so I can make more money off the shlubs worrying about their ascended gear.

I agree. Silk should not be so misrepresented. They should boost the requirements of everything to match silk.

Maxzero.4032:

People keep saying that that (most) other classes get two weapon skill bars so it’s equal to Revenants two utility skill bars. Thars not true individual utility skills have far more gameplay impact then individual weapon skills. Remember 1/5 of your weapon skills is an auto attack. The 2/3 are often just harder hits on longer CDs and it usually takes until the 4 and 5 skills for real utility effects.

Utility skills often are the major game changers in combat. Imagine Engineers who could take their kit skills AND all their turrets? Or Elementalists who could take all Cantrips AND Glyphs.

Combine that with a universal resource and little to no CD and you begin to see the real power. Gaming mechanic wise the Revenant is so much stronger then all the other professions and I am going to very interested to see how Anet balance them.

Reminds a lot of when Favored Souls and Sorcerers came into computer D&D. Clerics and Wizards got left behind (at least as far as pure classes went).

This is very true. But not the problem. The problem is the idea that there may be no way to choose.

The problem isn’t, what if the elementalist could bring all their cantrips and glyphs, it’s what if, in order to take the cantrip or glyph you wanted you were stuck with two default other skills, period, regardless of how useful they are to your play style or in general. The problem is that you could never take all the glyphs because they were only available with a specific set of utilities which did not include other glyphs.

This is the concern the op is presenting.

Foefaller.1082:

Knighthonor.4061:

Foefaller.1082:

The fastest way to level your Revenant would be to stockpile Tomes of Knowledge now to use on your Rev as soon as HoT is released and you get him/her to a bank.

Remember, if you have an Experience Scroll from Birthdays/5k chevo milestone, you’re already at level 20, so you’ll need only another 60 tomes to hit level cap.

I want to know of other ways besides SPvP can I get ToK. I hate SPvP in this game.

Some of the daily chevos give a tome (Though AFAIK It’s only lvl X-Y fractals and keep capture that have a tome). They are also a log-in reward for the 6th, 13th, 20th, and 27th day of logging in, and you can choose to get a stack of six for the final login reward.

That’s 16 a month, if the game doesn’t out for another four months you’re set.

Scoobaniec.9561:

http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2/b/627401366 < 29;39

As for racial skills etc you should be able to swap current legend skills with them. Howered i dont know why ppl keep ask for it as racial skills sux and i havent seen anyone using em either ingame.

Btw. are Revenant at pax going to have all legends, weapons and traits or just a demo version like we saw in poi?

It doesn’t matter if they’re any good. It has to do with how the game was designed. All characters of a race get their racial skills, regardless of class. All Charr can summon two Charr of their legion. All Humans can summon Hounds of Balthazar. All Sylvari can summon the Druid spirit. All Asura can summon Golems. All Norn can do whatever Norn do.

If Revenants can’t do these things then it lends the question of why not. Why did they build this class outside of the design of all the other classes, which take into account their race along with their class.

Scoobaniec.9561:

Kal Spiro.9745:

In both cases the elite power was a toggle, not a big effect like you seem to be expecting.

Jalis elite is not a toggle skill. Its a skills similiar to endure pain (at least it seems to be this way as wolf damage was 0 during that time) with casttime. A buff that lasted 5 sec and you had to recast it again.

Perhaps I misunderstood what I saw and what they were saying. If that’s the case, though, that lends more to the idea that there will ultimately be options than that there won’t be. Otherwise why make them so vastly different like that.

It also lends the question, what about Mistfire Wolves and racial skills.

Caeledh.5437:

Kal Spiro.9745:

This is a thing you could do. It would be silly and pointless, but you could do it.

Maybe, maybe not.

You could be enjoying a brief lull where your enemies are almost dead so there’s no point in wasting energy on big attacks to finish them off and more enemies are inbound. In that case you might allow your energy to build up and then immediately drop three elites on your fresh foes.

I doubt it would be something you’d do often. It’s an extreme. I picked the extreme to illustrate my point which is that taking cooldowns out of the equation means you can’t judge the potentially small pool of utilities, possibly with no choice in them, the same way you do other professions.

I think you’re missing what my point was, assuming you read it at all. Right now we only know of one elite for two legends. Based on how the legends work, though, it is reasonable to think that, if nothing else is, elites will be static to their legend because in each case the elite has been to channel the legend itself. In both cases the elite power was a toggle, not a big effect like you seem to be expecting. It changes how your character functions while gradually draining your energy. So of course you will use it often, and turn it off as well.

Using the Revenant elite is not like using the elite in any other class. It isn’t like a human necromancer summoning hounds of Balthazar, then swapping into Death Shroud and hitting Lich (as if that were a thing that could happen anyway.)

The Revenant can turn it on and off as much as it wants for as long as it can keep it up.

Caeledh.5437:

Build up your energy to 100 on one legend and you can drop your elite twice, switch to your other legend (50 energy refill on swap) and drop its elite. No other profession can do that.

This is a thing you could do. It would be silly and pointless, but you could do it. “Silly and pointless?” you may ask. Yes, the elite for each legend is to channel that legend and become it. The elite is a toggle that drains energy. Now there may be benefits to toggling it on and off then on and off again, but it’s not the same thing as, say, an ele dropping their elite glyph, then swapping attunement and dropping it again.

Having more variety and options isn’t actually the same as having more viable builds. If they make each legend so that it works well and synergizes with at least one other legend, better if it’s two, then the lack of options isn’t really bad. It would be nice if they’d at least add enough stuff to have an option with each. Even if it was only two heals. That would be more healsthan any other class of course.

Maybe have a single nonlegend heal, so no matter what you have slotted you can choose to use the other heal. That shouldn’t be so terrible.

Unfortunately elites are out, since Elites are kind of the culmination of the Legend mechanic and for each case it is channeling your legend. It would be kind of strange to let you not have that slotted.

BrunoBRS.5178:

Kal Spiro.9745:

BrunoBRS.5178:

can i talk to you about our lord and savior Stability?

Except they’re changing stability across the board to not be as completely effective.

thus putting it more in line with things like resistance, which also don’t grant you complete immunity.

That depends on how much access you have to resistance, doesn’kitten Just like stability did. If you can get your resistance to be longer than the conditions on you, it is complete immunity,.

Thankfully from what we’ve seen so far resistance is mostly short duration, but from the looks of it, a good Revenant could probably stack enough of it through Mallyk to basically negate all comers.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

VergilDeZaniah.3295:

Loex.5104:

Zepidel.5349:

Guild halls were something along with GvG that anyone should have expected DAY ONE with a sequel to GUILD wars.

Sadly the name GUILD WARS is given by the GUILD WARS between the major guilds of Ascalon Kryta and Orr and has nothing to do with player-guild-based PvP

learn the Lore :p

I feel like these people could also complain about Star Wars not having stars fighting each other.

Dunno what you’re talking about. It had Sir Alec Guiness fighting James Earl Jones.

To be fair, Mr Jones was not in the suit. It was only his voice over.

I expect the spec to lose one trait line, which will be replaced by the spec line, and one utility line directly related to that trait line. I don’t expect the spec to lose a weapon, nor a heal/elite. There are already too few of those to be removing any of them for any reason.

BrunoBRS.5178:

can i talk to you about our lord and savior Stability?

Except they’re changing stability across the board to not be as completely effective.

segman.3560:

Kal Spiro.9745:

The starter zones are peaceful because they represent the timeline before the major war with the dragons is taking place. They have small concerns like bandits, not big important concerns. As you increase in level the significance of the threats increase and the peace of the areas decreases until there are no more habitats and only war camps. By the time you are in Orr you are in full on life and death battle with an Elder Dragon.

The story then bring you back to some of the peaceful place and shakes them up as Scarlet takes the battle to those with small concerns. Eventually putting it right in the middle of a city which is supposed to have no concerns at all.

Then with the move toward Drytop it is another building of this threat level as another Elder Dragon starts becoming a problem, fully revealing itself in the Silverwastes which is constant fighting.

HoT is the culmination of this, becoming another Orr where the Pact fleet is in full on war mode again. There is no room for peaceful calm areas in the middle of a war.

If you want peaceful calm areas then you need to hang back in the starter areas where the war hasn’t started yet.

Do you know how all the maps are going to be designed? Because if you do share your insight.

Jungle wastes shattered by mordremoth’s vines are natural battleground. However the deep jungle itself surrounding mursaat city can be this peaceful side with frog-people and dinosaurs not being (yet) involved with the war. Watching trailers I’m really hopeful this is what I saw there.

And well… if you want to rationalize with your post than only you have the right to have fun with your chaotic siege maps, there’s no point in discussing with you. I want both types of maps so we all can be happy. You want it only to be one-side fun. Poor attitude.

That’s a good point. I forgot about the city and the indigenous cultures, so it is reasonable for there to be some calm areas. I kind of expect some events in the calm areas too, though. The whole place is under siege by Mordremoth, after all.

DocZed.6973:

Chances are, I might just keep using the Revenant Blindfold at level 80. I also want to see what the other two cosmetic choices are for starting Revenants.

That’s a good point, I hadn’t even thought of. Maybe there will be hoods for heavy armor, that would be cool.

DocZed.6973:

Not in game yet, but you can check Dulfy’s blog for a preview code
http://dulfy.net/2015/02/25/gw2-upcoming-gemstore-items-from-feb-24-patch/

Oddly enough, I’m dreading the day they add this.

The rest of that month, and part of the next one will be a fluttery mess. Then the next new thing will happen and everyone will get over it.

Of course, the fact that they’re Gem Store items might reduce their use slightly. Unlike the spinal blades that everyone has because you could just make them on a whim.

Lord Krilik.3692:

Guys – what I’m getting at is really more akin to the puppetmaster in FFXI.

Link: http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Puppetmaster

The Golemancer would have a Golem that follows them around and is fully customizable. You customize it’s look, it’s stats, it’s skills. Perhaps you could make it mountable, or you could have it run around with you like a ranger pet.

The fact that Asura can use their elite skill to summon a golem would be irrelevant – An asura ranger has a pet out permanently, but still can summon a golem as well with their racial elite.

This spec differs from ranger in that ranger is about the collection of many animals, the exploration of the world, the hunt, etc.

Golemancer is about 1 single golem that you tinker with to your liking.

I still feel that anything calling itself Golemancer is an automatic fail as far as ever being an actual thing we can play, I do like the idea of a pet class that specs out its pet to change its appearance and what it does.

I also think you are expecting far too much out of specializations. Keep in mind that specs aren’t new classes and only a small amount of the original class is likely to be lost in the spec so it still has to be able to play 80% like the original.

This thing you seem to be suggesting is not that.

The starter zones are peaceful because they represent the timeline before the major war with the dragons is taking place. They have small concerns like bandits, not big important concerns. As you increase in level the significance of the threats increase and the peace of the areas decreases until there are no more habitats and only war camps. By the time you are in Orr you are in full on life and death battle with an Elder Dragon.

The story then bring you back to some of the peaceful place and shakes them up as Scarlet takes the battle to those with small concerns. Eventually putting it right in the middle of a city which is supposed to have no concerns at all.

Then with the move toward Drytop it is another building of this threat level as another Elder Dragon starts becoming a problem, fully revealing itself in the Silverwastes which is constant fighting.

HoT is the culmination of this, becoming another Orr where the Pact fleet is in full on war mode again. There is no room for peaceful calm areas in the middle of a war.

If you want peaceful calm areas then you need to hang back in the starter areas where the war hasn’t started yet.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Tim.6450:

Does duration of the CC affect the bar?

From what I got from the interview, yes, it does.

Based on the interview each skill in the game will be individually tweaked for how much is effects the bar, most likely based on duration/type of effect.

A OK.8276:

Kal Spiro.9745:

A OK.8276:

Kal Spiro.9745:

If ANet has proved anything it is that no one understands how they think and that no one can accurate predict how they’ll implement anything.

Whatever they call it, it won’t be Inventor.

I heard people predict both the Reverent and Druid for names of new classes…

And I’ve heard many many names too. That’s no a consensus. People wanted Druid because it was a thing in GW1, but would they have expected it as a spec on Ranger? Could people have actually named the Revenant for the class we got, or would they have put it on the Necro spec?

Having thrown out a series of names isn’t really relevant. Inventor is a terrible name and ANet will ultimately do something else, because they always do.

If you were a profession your name would be Buzz Kill. Your mechanic would be removing all of the belchers bluffs, bobble head labs and box’s of fun off the maps. Your elite would be boring the opposite sex to sleep.

What in the world are you talking about dude? Did I steal your thunder somehow by saying that your fears are unfounded because the thing you don’t want to happen won’t come to pass? Get a grip.

Belzebu.3912:

Kal Spiro.9745:

I’m curious how it will play out for current mobs, and if it will play a part in current bosses who are simply immune to all that by default.

Actually, current bosses with defiance already works like that, the difference is that you don’t have any visual information, you need to organize with your party to remove it.

No? Defiance works the way defiance works. There is no bar that you can whittle away at, that the zerg could potentially strip indefinitely depending on how fast the regen is. I’m not talking about dungeons here where you get a max 5 stacks. But that is still stacks, not a bar.

A OK.8276:

Kal Spiro.9745:

If ANet has proved anything it is that no one understands how they think and that no one can accurate predict how they’ll implement anything.

Whatever they call it, it won’t be Inventor.

I heard people predict both the Reverent and Druid for names of new classes…

And I’ve heard many many names too. That’s no a consensus. People wanted Druid because it was a thing in GW1, but would they have expected it as a spec on Ranger? Could people have actually named the Revenant for the class we got, or would they have put it on the Necro spec?

Having thrown out a series of names isn’t really relevant. Inventor is a terrible name and ANet will ultimately do something else, because they always do.

I’m curious how it will play out for current mobs, and if it will play a part in current bosses who are simply immune to all that by default.

If ANet has proved anything it is that no one understands how they think and that no one can accurate predict how they’ll implement anything.

Whatever they call it, it won’t be Inventor.

Spent some time designing the armor look. It will require two gem shop purchases, but I’m ok with that. He is loosely based on my once upon a time Shadowknight in Everquest.

Caeledh.5437:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Would not make sense for anything but an Asura, so no.

That’s merely a minor hurdle – not an insurmountable problem. Exercise your imagination. ArenaNet write the story. They have the creative license to make something like this work.

The five player races already share technology. Let’s just highlight two examples.

The existing engineer profession seems to be based on charr and maybe human tech. That’s including Asura engineers. IMO what doesn’t make sense is Asura engineers not employing cough unquestionably superior Asura tech. But that’s a whole different barrel of kittens.

And there’s the Asura gates and waypoints. EVERYONE uses Asura tech.

From a story point of view I think it would actually make a lot of sense for a new engineer spec to focus on Asura technology. In the interests of winning the war the Asura decide to share more of their toys. Not a big stretch of the imagination, eh?

That said, based on the teensy, tiny bit of info we have – a hammer wielding engineer with little flying clockwork looking drones – I don’t think it’s likely for their first specialization. But I think it would be very cool for a later one.

Sharing technology and using technology others make available is not exactly the same thing. The Asura are very secretive of their tech and don’t readily share it with outsiders. Scarlet being a very solo exception.

Kulvar.1239:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

I was previously killed, but an unknown spirit allowed me escape the Underworld to be reborn as a lv 1 Revenant.

That’s not how it work.
It’s not a world of warcraft deathknight.
It’s not a world of warcraft “everything resurrectable (unless for the plot)”.

You must learn to use magic and it take ages.
Everyone is born with the ability to wield magic.
There’s no special requirements.

Revenant are just modern Ritualist from GW1.

Ritualists channel other-worldly energies that summon allies from the void and employ mystic binding rituals that bend those allies to the Ritualist’s will.
Hello energies of the mist

The energy they channel drives Ritualist skills which enhance the deadliness of an ally’s weapon and wreak havoc on an enemy’s health.
Hello buff skills

Ritualists are masters of spirits, able to call upon them in battle for aid.
Hello echoes of mighty heroes and demons in the mists.

The Ritualist can also use the remains of the dead to defend the living-not by reanimating corpses as a Necromancer would, but through the ritual use of urns and ashes.
Hello necromancer-like skills.

Wow, the class hasn’t been released yet, and has no official lore, and yet there are actually already people telling other people how it works and what they can and cannot RP for their own personal character.

This is more akin to what I would be worried about than what someone might actually do with their character.

Yeah, I just happened to be designing the outfit I’ll be putting my Revenant in when I came upon them. They’re perfect for him, so I need them to exist now, not just as an image in the wardrobe.

Floosy is always a good one. Or you could go upper class and call her Escort, which some people might not even catch the real meaning of. Or scifi and call her Companion, which might be too long, but if not might again fly under some people’s radar.

Why do you want your Gladium to be a prostitute?

I’ll be making mine Human Male, I have the basic physical design, but I’m not sure about the appearance yet. His name will be Scythe, last name tbd.

I really hope Revenants don’t get staff, because I simply cannot afford the scythe skin.

Tyrannical.9348:

Anyway! moving on…

seems most people seem to think that people will be reasonable, save for the mary sue’s who think they have a direct connection to the legend they’re channeling.

I don’t expect people to outright ban people for being Revenants in RP, but what do people suggest as precautions?

I honestly have no idea what your asking here. What are you expecting to happen, or are concerned might happen? How does one take precautions for RP?

jweez.7214:

I may be confused here but aren’t we fairly sure that the new engineer spec wields a hammer and crazy flying helicopter thingmabobbers?

Fact

BrunoBRS.5178:

wow, this is still going. that’s some serious dedication to an internet argument about a videogame class that will never happen.

just… wow.

I enjoy arguments that revolve around lore. And I don’t have a lot to do at work right now.

Conncept.7638:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Also, you showed me that that Dwarves are an ancient race, but not that the Asura are not one. It just says that the Asura were pushed out by Primordus later, not that they didn’t exist before then.

You didn’t bloody read the page again? Seriously?

It states ALL LIFE ENDED besides that small group of people Glint saved. Do I need to find you a wiki reference on what ALL means?

What it actually says is, and I quote, “The only surviving records exist in dwarven legends and jotun stelae, and according to these records only five sentient races battled and survived the Elder Dragons’ last rise with knowledge of them: dwarves, jotun, forgotten, mursaat, and seers. During this time, the mursaat used their own magic to flee Tyria, while Kralkatorrik’s champion Glint betrayed her master and hid the remaining races.”

This does not, actually, mean there were no minor races that existed and survived. It just means that if they did they did not retain the knowledge with which to pass down to subsequent generations. The Asura could easily have been the Skritt of the pervious generation.

It doesn’t have the word ALL anywhere. It doesn’t even say that Glint only hid the five, it just says she hid the ones that weren’t the mursaat.

PopeUrban.2578:

I’d like to note that in EOTN the Iron Forgeman was retconned as to have been designed by Oola (an Asura)

Oola’s lab prominently features many prototype and half-finished forgemen.

You’re both arguing over semantics at this point. In the 250 years since GW1, “golem” has, indeed become synonymous with Asuran magitech constructs, despite the fact that its in-universe historical etymology describes any self-locomotive entity comprised primarily of non-living base material.

You’re BOTH right. Asura have simply co-opted the term “Golem” over the years as theirs is the pinnacle of the art, and as the cultures of tyria melted together the word “Golem” became shorthand for “Asuran Golem”

Thus while it is technically correct to call any self-animated construct comprised primarily of of nonliving matter a golem, people don’t use the word that way any more in modern times. This is why, in modern times, if people describe such things they generally do so with a qualifier to denote it does not fit the commonly accepted etymology. Thus, when people say “Golem” they generally mean “Asuran Golem” but if they say “Flesh Golem” they’re qualifying the term to denote they are deliberately breaking away from the normal verbal shorthand.

That was basically the point of my argument to begin with. In GW2 when you say golem, unless it is specifically qualified with another term, you’re talking about the product of Golemancy.

After that it just became an effort to see how mad I could make Conncept, cause he seems really passionate about this thing.

So your big reveal is another elemental? I went through the links, I looked for anything that said golem, or looked like a construct. I didn’t find it. But thank you for providing me with another elemental, which is therefore still not a Golem.

Having the word golem in your name doesn’t make you a golem. It says very clearing in the description that it’s an elemental. Since it’s made of ice it was obviously animated through the use of hydromancy. Still not Golemancy which is a significantly more advanced form of magical animation.

That is what you don’t seem to be able to grasp. That is the difference. Yes, elementalists and necromancers can both animate things. Engineers can create things, though they aren’t animated and have to be driven by some means. All of the dredge gear, which was made by the dwarves, is either ridden inside or controlled externally. The Watchwork knights are run by clockwork.

Animation isn’t the same as what is produced through Golemancy. Golemancy produces an actual thinking machine. A construct that, if made well enough, can actually prove to be smarter than its creator, and often does.

Also, you showed me that that Dwarves are an ancient race, but not that the Asura are not one. It just says that the Asura were pushed out by Primordus later, not that they didn’t exist before then.

Knighthonor.4061:

The class is simply a spiritual channeler.
They hone energy from the mist itself. Their limit is based on their gear and experience, just like any other class.
Rytlock is the first, and he couldn’t have been a Rev for too long, so he not going to be as powerful as say a Dragon or something. Same rules that are bound to any other class that draw energy from other sources.

To be fair, time works differently in the mists, so Rytlock could actually have been one for a VERY long time. Considering what he does in the trailer I’d say it’s fairly clear that he has been.

We won’t really know the impact of the class on RP until we know the exact lore behind it. How does one become a Revenant? If Rytlock is the first, why are there suddenly so very many of them appearing immediately on his heels?

Conncept.7638:

And your analogy is completely inapplicable, all game lore indicates these constructs are golems, therefore they are the result of the same field of study regardless of naming conventions. You are claiming that two things, in every way similar in their use, convention, and construction, have no parallels between them, as if a neurosurgeon would have to have different degrees to operate on the brain of a black person and the brain of a white person. A brain is called a brain because it is a brain and is therefore subject to any studies concerning the brain, regardless of wheter you call it brain surgery or neurosurgery or who the brain belongs to. And by the same logic a golem is a called a golem because it is a golem, and is subject to any study or knowledge about golems, regardless of whether you call the field of study golemancy or not or whatever race the construct may have been made by.

This actually is the most concise break down of your misunderstanding that I could conceive, actually.

Elementals, Watchwork, Necromantic constructs and the big robots that the Dredge use but the Dwarves made are nothing like Golems produced from Golemancy.

They don’t have feelings nor desires. They can take only very rudimentary commands and “preprogramming.”

Golemancy is computerization. Golems have actual, factual, personalities that are programmed into them by the Golemancer that creates them. They are advanced intricate pieces of magic, not the slap dash animation of a pile of rocks or body parts you get in other magical fields. Golems have artificial intelligence.

That is the difference. That’s why it’s Brain Surgery, not the manufacture of artificial limbs, or pediatry.