Guild Wars 2

achensherd.2735:

KensaiZen.3740:

It is not always the case… but then it is not always the case with every other profession and tactic. But more often then not, it is always the case for me.

Then there’s nothing separating us from any other class capable of >1200 ranged attacks. What you’ve shown so far is that we, like any other class, are capable of running a dungeon. What has yet to be shown is how we’re godly at it, which is what’s necessary for the thread title (presently “Ranged…. Rangers are Godly (better?)”) to be accurate, and what’s necessary to make a compelling case for Rangers in high level group content.

Except we can also do it at 1500. This is just getting silly now. It is not always the case but with this playstyle it does not happen often. Most other classes cannot do their full potential at range.

lol and the bacon acts like an engineers medikit

I like it, I think I might give it a try when I get home from work

achensherd.2735:

Having played as a LB + Eagle Eye Ranger:

KensaiZen.3740:

you would be out of range. It would select a closer target.

This is not always the case.

KensaiZen.3740:

same as above. You shouldn’t be anywhere near its agro range.

You don’t always have a choice.

KensaiZen.3740:

we have access to regens on trait and signet.

Which build are we talking about again?

KensaiZen.3740:

At this point do you even need to worry about DPS? what good is a GC wwarriors DPS if he is on the floor?

When you’re the only survivor of a party wipe, the boss is down to 5-10% health, and your party’s clamoring for you to try to finish the fight instead ofdisengaging and resetting it, dps and/or the ability to survive/sustain a solo fight against a boss and its adds matters.

KensaiZen.3740:

Then you move as well. A 1500 circumfrance is very large. You don’t have to remain completely static as you are

A 1500 distance from all hostile elements in a boss fight is not always possible.

KensaiZen.3740:

you will not be in range for most AoE’s. If you are, just move, you will still be shooting.

Simply moving out of AoEs is not always possible.

KensaiZen.3740:

Player positioning plays a very important role. Find a good firing spot and the likeliness of this happening is reduced. Find an amazing firing position and nothing will attack you. Do people even bother? no, they go for what they think is max DPS and run around with a shortbow TRYING to flank the target whilst trying not to die. At above 1200 range you are outside of a mobs agro field. Your party isn’t. why will they go for you? think about it. And here’s the other thing. If you have SoH equipped you should be fast enough to keep out of harms way.

They have come for me regardless. I don’t know what to tell you.

It is not always the case… but then it is not always the case with every other profession and tactic. But more often then not, it is always the case for me.

Recycle.5493:

Unfortunately

Prysin.8542:

CoF =/= the whole game

just sayin…. there is more to this game then a broken dungeon

There’re dungeons like CM and Arah, or even HotW, that are way past CoF level, please don’t use CoF as a dungeon run example.

Edit: some might argue CoF path 3, but it just takes a long time, not hard.

CM? difficult? you do realise this armour set has 6 superior runes of the noble right? CM is a cake walk. Especially for a Ranger. Majority of mobs stand perfectly still. You still receive benefits of spirit buffs through walls. you can easily lure mobs into choke points to AoE them with barrage and piercing arrows. You know what, I will make a video of CM just for you.

CoF = does not equal the whole game
Arah = does not equal the whole game
HotW = does not equal the whole game
Fractals 40+ = does not equal the whole game

What is the real point of your argument? I think you people are losing track of what it is your complaining about.

Zenith.7301:

KensaiZen.3740:

See now your both just taking about potential damage rather than effective damage. Whirling wrath actually hits people for a full 9k? oh please.

“If a boss and its adds…
never try to attack you – you would be out of range. It would select a closer target.
never aggro on you – same as above. You shouldn’t be anywhere near its agro range.
never inflict any kind of damage on you – we have access to regens on trait and signet.
never wipe your party down to you – At this point do you even need to worry about DPS? what good is a GC wwarriors DPS if he is on the floor?
never teleport/move outside of your range and/or behind obstructions – Then you move as well. A 1500 circumfrance is very large. You don’t have to remain completely static as you are
never cast any kind of AoE and there are no environmental hazards – you will not be in range for most AoE’s. If you are, just move, you will still be shooting.
…then yeah, you can turret it/them all day long with no downtime.”

Player positioning plays a very important role. Find a good firing spot and the likeliness of this happening is reduced. Find an amazing firing position and nothing will attack you. Do people even bother? no, they go for what they think is max DPS and run around with a shortbow TRYING to flank the target whilst trying not to die. At above 1200 range you are outside of a mobs agro field. Your party isn’t. why will they go for you? think about it. And here’s the other thing. If you have SoH equipped you should be fast enough to keep out of harms way.

Are you an idiot, or do you want a video of Whirling Wrath hitting for that number? Because full berserker guardians do that even higher.

Either way this won’t be solved until mechanisms like meters are released to parse data so misleading people like you can get called out for the vagueness of arguments (rangers are versatile! warriors have no support! guardians have no damage!)

I just can’t believe someone said Whirling Wrath can’t hit for 9k. Rapid Fore can hit for 14-17k, for goodness’s sake. Hardhitting skills exist on pretty much every class but the necromancer.

I would love to see a Video of a non GC Guardian hitting for 9k with Whirling wrath. I am far more experienced on a Guardian then I am on a Ranger and I would love to see it. In a WvW situation there is no one that will hit 9k with WW. Anyone and their mother can dodge it.

So, lets see all these damage numbers people keep raving about in “live” situations. I hate to keep repeating myself about potential damage and effective damage.

Zenith.7301:

Several encounters which were cut away from. It’s a burst montage rather than a show of robust builds. He has no stun breaker so the moment he gets caught on a stun with a zerg he’s screwed. Same if he came across any thief that can land a mug/daze into basilisk. He had around 16k hp, probably very little toughness so after he blew signet of stone he could be bursted down in one sequence by a mesmer or thief.

The big burst buttons as well were long cooldowns like signet of the wild, and most of his opponents didn’t even dodge maul, which has a blatant animation before it lands.

What happens when the d/d ele mist forms/armor of eath through his signet cooldowns? He dies after.

Not all builds are suitable for every situation. Why would you even think it would be that way?

There is no super 1 build to rule them all.

I really don’t get you people sometimes.

Very nice video

Though I would like to remind you. Rangers suck at WvW. Rangers can’t do burst damage. Rangers pet suck and uncontrollable.

You must be some noob because some how your Ranger doesn’t fall into this category.

lol nice one mate

I will do a proper video with a proper boss fight later. This one was mainly to do with keeping pet alive in a dungeon.

Scenario;

Completely random dungeon run with completely inexperienced team. 1 never been in this dungeon before and not on voice chat. only 2 people (me included has been in this dungeon more then once) No one was told before hand any tactics or what to do so its a very ad hoc run to simulate normal PUG dungeon running (as no one will find a omfg elite group all the time)

You will notice that all the times that the pet dies are actually times when its not being used. There is always a pet swap available (this is where permanent stowing is a good idea Dev’s).

There was one crash which made me miss the Lava part. (the game is very unstable on my Dell XPS) and the game returned to windows 3 times as the recording software stopped recording and automatically minimised the screen.

On boss fight, I was attempting to keep the aggro and hold the boss at the gate. Doesn’t look like it worked though as they may have fixed this and the boss kept teleporting away when it got close to the door.

The build was pure power and survival so no where near a GC. Armour was PVT with Runes of the noble (because I like loot and an extra dog)

Like I mentioned, it is not an amazing video. It is not meant to be an elite know the dungeon like the back of your hand run. This is a simulation of what it would actually be like for people to play on a standard level. You may say I am bad with the Ranger, you may say the team was bad in general. But how many % of the GW2 population is elite? not a lot.

Bring the pain

just finished loading it on Youtube. Bit busy with work.. will link it in a few minutes. Its nothing amazing so don’t hold your breath. However, it does highlight my point about the ranger in a dungeon and the playstyle.

See now your both just taking about potential damage rather than effective damage. Whirling wrath actually hits people for a full 9k? oh please.

“If a boss and its adds…
never try to attack you – you would be out of range. It would select a closer target.
never aggro on you – same as above. You shouldn’t be anywhere near its agro range.
never inflict any kind of damage on you – we have access to regens on trait and signet.
never wipe your party down to you – At this point do you even need to worry about DPS? what good is a GC wwarriors DPS if he is on the floor?
never teleport/move outside of your range and/or behind obstructions – Then you move as well. A 1500 circumfrance is very large. You don’t have to remain completely static as you are
never cast any kind of AoE and there are no environmental hazards – you will not be in range for most AoE’s. If you are, just move, you will still be shooting.
…then yeah, you can turret it/them all day long with no downtime.”

Player positioning plays a very important role. Find a good firing spot and the likeliness of this happening is reduced. Find an amazing firing position and nothing will attack you. Do people even bother? no, they go for what they think is max DPS and run around with a shortbow TRYING to flank the target whilst trying not to die. At above 1200 range you are outside of a mobs agro field. Your party isn’t. why will they go for you? think about it. And here’s the other thing. If you have SoH equipped you should be fast enough to keep out of harms way.

imo the reduction to quickness attack speed and extended length of QZ does have an up side. Your entire channel no longer gets nullified from just 1 dodge roll.

It may be worse off in trying to do maximum damage in the smallest amount of time but it will guarantee that some of your damage will actually hit even if someone dodges.

The ranger is actually equipped with ridiculously long ranged chill, knock down, cripple to help you to catch up with enemies. However, all of these things are incorporated into your pet system. The problem as you have already highlighted is in WvW where when on walls, you will no longer be able to send out your pets to use their F2. However, when defending in WvW the enemy has to come close. This should not be much of a problem to as for them to run back from 600 to 1500 will take them some time. You can coordinate your damage with say.. another ranger or you can coordinate with another ranged class to burst down the enemy (engineers would be very handy seeing as their grenades can slow the enemy very nicely). Also, barrage is good for slowing down the enemy as it cripples as it hits. The key is to fire barrage behind the enemy and herd them into it with rapid fire of whatever your making them run back with.

My experience with GC Ranger in WvW is that we are really good for keep/fort defence and laying down covering fire at the back of the zerg but absolutely terrible in skirmishes.

on a full 30/30/ build it was possible to do 10k damage to the enemy and I found that it was possible to down people quite often. You have to pick your targets. Go mainly for mediums or lights or those who were already at half health.

You have come up with a very good suggestion. I would love the Longbow to have that charged shot too and it makes perfect sense to have it. LB1 should have the ability to charge the arrow allowing it to do a high dmg shot when charged. I would love to see that implemented into the game and it will give the ranger another interesting twist to the play style. It should fix the damage issue without making the class OP.

So what happens when you dont need to dodge the boss? Your damage will never drop. There is no downtine.

No need to roll.
No need to kite.
No need to cast a heal.
No need to disengage.
No need to chase a boss if he teleports.
No need to walk out of AoE.

You just fire away with no loss to damage via downtime.

You can argue that you may never have to move. Well if thats the case then a ranger can use a ranged petand add the garaunteed hits from that.

Rangers damage by themselves is decent compared to other classes apart from classes designed for DPS. Add to this can increase the damage via their pets.

So let me ask the lovely number crunchers. What is a ranger+ranged pets DPS combined?

swiftpaw.6397:

KensaiZen.3740:

swiftpaw.6397:

The Ranger will perform well in EVERY scenario. this is an all round class. Versatile, range and melee, condition and power, attack and support.

When ranger can use feedback/shield of the avenger/wall of reflection I’d have an easier time believing that.

Now that’s just nit picking. Guardians have those skills because their range is terrible. That is their balance.

Why would a ranger need this? they aren’t supposed to be hit or absorb damage. Although they can go invulnerable for 6 seconds whilst shooting back, that count?

Not really. These skills are beneficial to the whole party and some instances will make or break a team. As an example fotm 40+ Shaman fight at the end is sure alot easier with these skills than without, and if you have a poor team, without these skills they will never complete it. 6 seconds of invulnerability for your ranger is rather trivial in a group dungeon given that your ranger isnt doing much contribution vs other classes and should really switch that skill out for something more group focused to be beneficial.

It was a joke

Irrelevant as to where they are used, those skills are there because Guardians have rubbish range. Those skills existed before fotm. They werent designed for fotm.

LadyLad.1389:

@KensaiZen

You seem to be one of those people who loves to Theorycraft. That is fine, and I didn’t want to sound harsh like above. If you are going to Theorycraft, please show the courtesy to accept constructive criticism from players who have the experience you lack. It will make your future discussions much more enjoyable, rather than this mess.

Thanks, and enjoy.

Theres always a method to the madness

Neb.4170:

KensaiZen.3740:

Neb.4170:

Chopps.5047:

Any of you guys make team use of ranger combo fields in dungeons? Why or why not?

Why would you bring a ranger for combo fields? An ele would do it so much better.

This is kind of the over-arching issue with rangers. Nothing they do is unique and absolutely nothing they do is better than another class. Everything is either -sort of as good- or just plain worse.

This is why you have people stretching things like ‘oh well we apply cripple a lot!’ as some sort of support function. It’s just self serving bullkitten. ‘Oh well my doggy can knockdown’, at random times, with random amounts of success as well.

There is a reason everyone doesn’t want Rangers in dungeons. It’s not some baseless rumor. It’s just the simple truth, rangers are a waste of a spot compared to another class.

Every attack from a bow is a potential projectile finisher. Every swipe of the drake is a splash AoE finisher, GS finishers.. i am sure there are more.

Stand in a poison field. spread poison with every shot to whoever you hit at 1200 range. That’s powerful. The fact of applying conditions at 1200 is a very powerful tool. Conditions themselves is all well and good. But a condition you cant run from? much more powerful.

Team up with a Necro and there is no escape fro the conditions. You don’t even have to walk into the wells to be hit.

See? No, you’re wrong. Projectile finishers aren’t powerful. They have a 20% chance of spreading a minor condition to a single target.

You’re just stretching things as much as you possibly can to convince yourself that you’re doing something amazing. You aren’t.

‘Every swipe of the drake’… what? The drake has a single blast finisher that cannot be timed and cannot be controlled.

GS has a leap finisher, great, you get a fire aura for 3 seconds. Huzzah. You are amazing now.

P.S. A necro doesn’t need you to do conditions. He’s got that covered just on his own. A necro wants a mesmer, not you.

but you can (kind of) control the drakes blast finisher. Pet swap. It will us its skill when it comes out.

GS leap finisher can be used for more then the fire field.

Neb.4170:

KensaiZen.3740:

Neb.4170:

Chopps.5047:

Any of you guys make team use of ranger combo fields in dungeons? Why or why not?

Why would you bring a ranger for combo fields? An ele would do it so much better.

This is kind of the over-arching issue with rangers. Nothing they do is unique and absolutely nothing they do is better than another class. Everything is either -sort of as good- or just plain worse.

This is why you have people stretching things like ‘oh well we apply cripple a lot!’ as some sort of support function. It’s just self serving bullkitten. ‘Oh well my doggy can knockdown’, at random times, with random amounts of success as well.

There is a reason everyone doesn’t want Rangers in dungeons. It’s not some baseless rumor. It’s just the simple truth, rangers are a waste of a spot compared to another class.

Every attack from a bow is a potential projectile finisher. Every swipe of the drake is a splash AoE finisher, GS finishers.. i am sure there are more.

Stand in a poison field. spread poison with every shot to whoever you hit at 1200 range. That’s powerful. The fact of applying conditions at 1200 is a very powerful tool. Conditions themselves is all well and good. But a condition you cant run from? much more powerful.

Team up with a Necro and there is no escape fro the conditions. You don’t even have to walk into the wells to be hit.

See? No, you’re wrong. Projectile finishers aren’t powerful. They have a 20% chance of spreading a minor condition to a single target.

You’re just stretching things as much as you possibly can to convince yourself that you’re doing something amazing. You aren’t.

‘Every swipe of the drake’… what? The drake has a single blast finisher that cannot be timed and cannot be controlled.

GS has a leap finisher, great, you get a fire aura for 3 seconds. Huzzah. You are amazing now.

P.S. A necro doesn’t need you to do conditions. He’s got that covered just on his own. A necro wants a mesmer, not you.

20% chance to spread a condition to a single target. How many shots are you doing with a bow? the condition will be cast on the target. How many different skills can you use from the bow? spread shot, rapid fire. You don’t have to aim at only 1 person either.

I definitely know im not doing anything amazing. this is what baffles me. This whole Ranger community is just dead. Just lifeless. All just want to be spoon fed by the Dev’s. Cry enough and they will give you another feed.

The Dev’s have in house balance testers who know the classes inside and out. Why haven’t the Dev’s buffed the hell out of the class? because those guys know their stuff and are either 1, on par or better than the other classes when they are testing. 2, the testers for the other classes are just that crap that they don’t see how rubbish the Ranger is claimed to be.

There must be something that those guys are doing right. We just have to find out what it is.

swiftpaw.6397:

The Ranger will perform well in EVERY scenario. this is an all round class. Versatile, range and melee, condition and power, attack and support.

When ranger can use feedback/shield of the avenger/wall of reflection I’d have an easier time believing that.

Now that’s just nit picking. Guardians have those skills because their range is terrible. That is their balance.

Why would a ranger need this? they aren’t supposed to be hit or absorb damage. Although they can go invulnerable for 6 seconds whilst shooting back, that count?

Neb.4170:

Chopps.5047:

Any of you guys make team use of ranger combo fields in dungeons? Why or why not?

Why would you bring a ranger for combo fields? An ele would do it so much better.

This is kind of the over-arching issue with rangers. Nothing they do is unique and absolutely nothing they do is better than another class. Everything is either -sort of as good- or just plain worse.

This is why you have people stretching things like ‘oh well we apply cripple a lot!’ as some sort of support function. It’s just self serving bullkitten. ‘Oh well my doggy can knockdown’, at random times, with random amounts of success as well.

There is a reason everyone doesn’t want Rangers in dungeons. It’s not some baseless rumor. It’s just the simple truth, rangers are a waste of a spot compared to another class.

Every attack from a bow is a potential projectile finisher. Every swipe of the drake is a splash AoE finisher, GS finishers.. i am sure there are more.

Stand in a poison field. spread poison with every shot to whoever you hit at 1200 range. That’s powerful. The fact of applying conditions at 1200 is a very powerful tool. Conditions themselves is all well and good. But a condition you cant run from? much more powerful.

Team up with a Necro and there is no escape fro the conditions. You don’t even have to walk into the wells to be hit.

jkctmc.8754:

KensaiZen.3740:

Rangers can bring a lot of CC

Define a lot please.

KensaiZen.3740:

and conditions.

This could be fine, if there wasn’t a 25 stack limit on bleeds or vulnerability, and if you have a Elementalist, and/or Guardian in the group, they’ll keep “burning” up permanently. This leaves Poison, Weakness, both done better by a Necromancer, and Chill, done better by an Elementalist.

KensaiZen.3740:

Sure a necro can bring more conditions but can it bring the same amount as a Ranger? CC, conditions, support all rolled into one.

The Necromancer has one spell that puts it above any other Condition build in the game, that is Epidemic. Why is that important? It can spread every condition from the original target, onto five other targets, this includes Confusion. This alone sets them apart from any other condition build. The Necromancer has all of the CC the Ranger does, plus multiple forms of Fear to their added arsenal.

KensaiZen.3740:

Guardian has low burst but high support.

This depends on build really. You should check out the Guardian of Lyssa.
http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/73978-guardian-of-lyssa-build-unkillable-self-healer-w-great-dps/

KensaiZen.3740:

Warrior has high burst and low support (I’ve never seen someone spec for both on the same build)

What do you consider support? My Warrior does 20% less damage than a Glass Canon Warrior, and provided four boons permanently (Regeneration, Fury, Swiftness, and 3 Stacks of Might), while having the fastest rez capabilities in the game thanks to Fast Healer.

KensaiZen.3740:

Mesmers bring damage and conditions no support at all.

Again, what do you consider support? The Mesmer is needed for boon stacking, which allows them to double the duration of all boons placed on others thanks to Signet of Inspiration, which applies all boons on the Mesmer, to their group. Imagine how effective this is with Save Yourselves. If that isn’t enough support for you, all wrapped up in one utility skill, the Mesmer is the only class in the game that can HASTE their entire party.

Again, what do you consider support?

[/quote]

1. A lot- Many

2. IF they had a Guardian in a group IF they had Necro in the group IF they had whatever in the group. Unless you control the composition of every party you are ever in then you will tailor it to specific needs. However, IF you don’t have a Guardian in the party IF you Don’t find a Necro. The Ranger can still bring all these CC on 1 toon, yes 1, not 5 different toons to compare, just 1 all in 1. This can free up other classes to perhaps use other builds. Especially useful when partied with PUGS. You wouldn’t have this problem because you re in a guild with lots of people. However, you are not everyone else.

3. Does every Necro use epidemic? hell not every necro will even play conditions. You speak as if every Necro in GW2 will all have the same build. They have conditions and CC, so do Rangers. Suddenly half way into a scenario (dungeon or what not) there is a requirement to do something else other than conditions. Can a condition necro do it? most likely, but will he be able to do it better than a Ranger in that time? no.

4. Checked it out. Interesting build. Nice choice of Rune synergy with elite. where does it say how high is its effective damage? and no please don’t quote potential damage. Those figures are just BS. It doesn’t look that much different to any other 0/0/30/30/0 AH build. Just an interesting rune set. I’ve mained as Guardian for 6 months. I should know.

5. 20% is a lot of damage.

6. 45 second cooldown. Must be timed with the Guardian to make it that effective. Will not work in a non organised team on VOIP basis. Actual effectiveness with standard server population, low.
Haste 1 minute cooldown for 5 second haste. Unless in an organised group with VOIP. Actual effectiveness with standard server population, medium. This is all the support mesmer brings to the party and it is better than Rangers? seriously? 2 situational skills.

Sorry but versatility wins hands down. there is no scenario where you have 1 of every class in the game in your party. There is no scenario where you have one of every class specifically spec with those traits in any scenario.

1 character has access to everything. There is only 1 scenario. 5 other characters will be better then that 1 character in 5 different separate scenarios. Doesn’t work that way.

Burn, chill, poison, weakness, vulnerability, bleed, cripple, entangle, regen, cures conditions, res dead people at range. All on one character. All on one spec. No other class can do this. The Ranger will perform well in EVERY scenario. this is an all round class. Versatile, range and melee, condition and power, attack and support.

Chopps.5047:

jkctmc.8754:

Chopps.5047:

jkctmc.8754:

Chopps.5047:

jkctmc.8754:

Chopps.5047:

Part of the problem with solo’ing lupi is how much effort it is jk. Seriously, you basically need a party to help you get there and that’s asking a lot. The last way to solo your way there that I knew of was nerfed away after the portal gun nerf. After that, expect to spend 12 hours practicing or longer. Strife025 mentions practicing for 11 hours before feeling like he was good at it. 11 hours of practice doesn’t mean warrior is sooo good I don’t think, rather, it means Strife or (insert soloist’s name here) isn’t just playing the ultimate of professions or whatever you might believe—they’re well practiced.

Edit: fixed typo

You’re the PvE Ranger, so if you thought you could do it, you would. If nothing more than to be able to say; “in your face”. The fact you havn’t tried it speaks volumes. Rangers in my guild who have tried, and said it isn’t possible, and our Necromancer got pretty darn close. You can’t keep using that excuse.

My guildmates are waiting for the why, to their answer.

Did they practice for a dozen hours like strife025 claimed it took him? Not tk take anything away from strife, he’s a heck of a player. Have warriors in your guild put in the time to practice that and then do it?

The necromancer has put in roughly 12 hours, the Rangers gave up after 10. The Warriors see no need to do it since it has been proven a Warrior can do it. Our Mesmers have put in roughly 8 hours, but they’re not sure it is possible with the Mesmer either, and are losing interest. Our Guardians when asked, say; No, just no. Our guild leader has offered 1000g to the first class besides a Warrior who can do it.

You’re missing the point though, like usual.

A thousand gold you say? And you feel this challenge is skill independent? Interesting. Does anyone else feel like chiming in on this? Are you aware both theives and mesmers have demonstrated solos of Lupi and the videos are on youtube?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Giganticus-Lupicus-mesmer-solo

If it says bad link try copy/paste, hope that link works :p

1000 gold you say? Someone in your guild ought to practice and collect that bounty. Can I join your guild?

If you solo Lupi as a Ranger, I’ll give you the 1000 gold.

$_$ are you serious? Is this just me or any ranger out there? What are the terms, what’s the catch?

if you spend time analysing the attack pattern of lupicus you will be able to do it. Just a matter if you have the patience to spend so much time and effort on it. And who knows if he will even give you 1000g for real.

swiftpaw.6397:

KensaiZen.3740:

swiftpaw.6397:

So going by this no class is effective as warrior is the only effective class.
Out of curiosity, what i the fastest time you have done in Arah with 5 warriors?

Comprehension again Kensai. I am saying that ranger is not as effective as warrior. In a dungeon situation. Not that all classes are not effective as warrior.

You clearly highlight the effectiveness of a class is due to how efficiently they can clear a dungeon. No class can clear a dungeon as quick as a warrior. Thus against a warrior all classes are inefficient.

I was making the comparison between one of the most efficient classes and one of the least. Sure warriors are the most effective at DPS and provide better utility than ranger, but a guardian provides better support utility (which compensates for the damage it lacks vs warrior) than a warrior and a mesmer provides a balance of good support and damage and an ele has a versatility (better than a ranger) that means it can quickly adapt to the situation with stronger heals or dps or CC and so on. If we only looked at damage, yes, nothing trumps the warrior.

But from a usefulness in groups relating to effectiveness perspective we look also at utility which is what makes other classes worth taking in dungeons also. If you cannot provide great DPS, then you should at least be able to provide great utility.

The ranger’s utility is not up to par with other classes.

The real point I’m trying to make is that ranger cannot provide enough utility to make it
1.) worth taking over any other class.
and
2.) make up for it’s poor damage.

You’re trying hard to make me sound like some warriors only leetist. My main is a Guardian and my secondary main is a ranger. I’m just letting you know the reasons why I stopped taking my ranger in dungeons even if it is my most enjoyable class.

Rangers can bring a lot of CC and conditions. Sure a necro can bring more conditions but can it bring the same amount as a Ranger? CC, conditions, support all rolled into one.

Guardian has low burst but high support.
Warrior has high burst and low support (I’ve never seen someone spec for both on the same build)
Mesmers bring damage and conditions no support at all.
Engineers, cant say much haven’t touched one for months and its still low level. But Im sure it is still one extreme or the other.
Necro, lots of conditions and damage and low support.

To me it feels like current builds go from extremes. Your either tanky support, or you are DPS GC. i believe the Ranger is something in between. A versatile class that can do both at the same time and very well too.

For niche situations you can pick one class or the other, or one spec or the other to be “the most efficient”

What do Rangers bring to the team? to decrease the margin for error.

Oh and for the record. The cry about pets dying in dungeons was around BEFORE fractals was even released.

swiftpaw.6397:

So going by this no class is effective as warrior is the only effective class.
Out of curiosity, what i the fastest time you have done in Arah with 5 warriors?

Comprehension again Kensai. I am saying that ranger is not as effective as warrior. In a dungeon situation. Not that all classes are not effective as warrior.

You clearly highlight the effectiveness of a class is due to how efficiently they can clear a dungeon. No class can clear a dungeon as quick as a warrior. Thus against a warrior all classes are inefficient.

jkctmc.8754:

KensaiZen.3740:

jkctmc.8754:

KensaiZen.3740:

Recycle.5493:

KensaiZen.3740:

Recycle.5493:

KensaiZen.3740:

So you using another weapon will make you versatile at 1500 range how?

Why do you have to be so obsessed about that 1500 range? Does that extra 300 range bother you that much? Like other classes just can’t close that close of a gap?

It’s not about closing the gap. It’s about what the extra 300 range means.

More targets hit with piercing arrows.
Able to stay out of combat area completely whilst still contributing.

The strategic value of the extra 300 cannot be seen in a duel situation. Look at all teh other aspects of the game.

Please, address this issue and explain it in your “soon to come” video. Perhaps some zerg footage of you killing off enemies with your barrage, the more the better, around 20 kills per hours of WvW is convincing enough to me(If you’re on a tier 1/2 server anyways), don’t forget to turn on in-game clock for that.

The video is coming. just finished casual run through Cof 2 to show that pets can be kept alive all the way through.

WvW video may be slightly tougher seeing as bottom tier there rent that many people. The zergs here don’t get that big (10-20 ppl) but I will try to get some footage when I can.

Citadel of Flames is old, you need to be running 55+ Fractals, or you’re just trying to pull the wool over peoples eyes.

I’ve run CoF before I had exotics, it isn’t a hard dungeon.

Not everyone in this game is a omfg pro elite wtf kinda person. People wanted to see a video where the pets don’t die and become ineffective in a dungeon I make one. Who said anything about high lvl fractals? We all know the issues with pets and summons in fractals.

What, did you think I wouldn’t make a video to show it couldn’t be done? how about you make some videos about how good you are. You seem to claim to be some pro who knows everything. lets see some videos then.

Because pets generally only die in Fractals. You’re trying to use old dungeons to prove everything is fine, and dandy with newer dungeons. That doesn’t work out.

At least stay UP TO DATE, with the content.

Where is your Ranger video of soloing Lupi?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3p_b4Vnv8iY

errr so where is the video of an other class soloing lupicus? seriously, 2 videos now of trying to show warriors are the best class in the game? reality check, they aren’t. Oh no how can that be.. someone managed to solo lupicus with one and can do 20k hits with kill shot. Your just a clown.

And like i said. We all know the issue with fractals and pets and summons. There is an issue there. I do not sugar coat it and pretend like there is no issue with fractals. For those who do not run fractals. There are the normal dungeons.

jkctmc.8754:

KensaiZen.3740:

Recycle.5493:

KensaiZen.3740:

Recycle.5493:

KensaiZen.3740:

So you using another weapon will make you versatile at 1500 range how?

Why do you have to be so obsessed about that 1500 range? Does that extra 300 range bother you that much? Like other classes just can’t close that close of a gap?

It’s not about closing the gap. It’s about what the extra 300 range means.

More targets hit with piercing arrows.
Able to stay out of combat area completely whilst still contributing.

The strategic value of the extra 300 cannot be seen in a duel situation. Look at all teh other aspects of the game.

Please, address this issue and explain it in your “soon to come” video. Perhaps some zerg footage of you killing off enemies with your barrage, the more the better, around 20 kills per hours of WvW is convincing enough to me(If you’re on a tier 1/2 server anyways), don’t forget to turn on in-game clock for that.

The video is coming. just finished casual run through Cof 2 to show that pets can be kept alive all the way through.

WvW video may be slightly tougher seeing as bottom tier there rent that many people. The zergs here don’t get that big (10-20 ppl) but I will try to get some footage when I can.

Citadel of Flames is old, you need to be running 55+ Fractals, or you’re just trying to pull the wool over peoples eyes.

I’ve run CoF before I had exotics, it isn’t a hard dungeon.

Not everyone in this game is a omfg pro elite wtf kinda person. People wanted to see a video where the pets don’t die and become ineffective in a dungeon I make one. Who said anything about high lvl fractals? We all know the issues with pets and summons in fractals.

What, did you think I wouldn’t make a video to show it couldn’t be done? how about you make some videos about how good you are. You seem to claim to be some pro who knows everything. lets see some videos then.

swiftpaw.6397:

What do you classify as effective?

Usefulness (aka support and control) and above this, damage. IMO effectiveness is about how fast you can clear a dungeon. The faster you get it done, the more effective your team is. If 5 friends and I decided to clear a dungeon on our rangers we would not get it done as fast as with our warriors.

The warrior has Aoe might and fury grant that is superior to anything the ranger can provide with pets or warhorn due to cooldowns. They also do not need to make the sacrifice of a weapon slot. The warrior has access to stability without the need to sacrifice their elite ( Balanced stance, Dolyak signet). The warrior can provide CC through the 1 handed sword’s adrenaline skill without the sacrifice of a utility slot and still do real damage ( and bleeds). The warrior has AOE condition removal ( shake it off) and it doesn’t rely on people standing inside a healing spring. The cool down on this also lower. Ranger’s healing spring, I might add, needs to be placed on the party, usually in melee range, which means if you are currently ranged (longbow) you need to move into range to place the spring on the party, thus lowering your (already poor) dps. Not only this, but it relies on a blast finisher from party members to heal others, and when in a pug ( who has no idea what blast finishers are) or with individuals that lack the weapons or skills to blast finish, it’s a waste. You also sacrifice your opportunity to heal later if you wish to remove conditions from the party when you yourself may already be at full health. Warrior’s elite can be a banner that AOE resses downed players. This does not rely on a spirit that can die in seconds and is ground targetable on the downed players. This res is alot more effective. Not only this, but when the banner is placed, it provides fury might and swiftness to the party for a decent amount of time. Ranger’s Spirit of renewal provides steady healing but it has to be in range.. and when it is in range it’s often times dead. If your team is any good, the healing is not even required anyway. Warriors can also spec into banners that provide real buffs to the party without the RNG that ranger’s spirits are encumbered with. These banners once again do not die in one hit and can be placed in melee range. The also do not require trait points to get a better chance of working.. they just work. A large portion of the warrior’s damage is not reliant on a pet which can die. These things result in better group synergy.

These are simple utility issues that make the warrior improve the rest of the party more than the ranger.

Let’s not even get started on the huge difference in damage. I do not run glass cannon on my warrior and yet I out-dps my full glass cannon ranger many times over. I do not die often on my warrior, in fact is survives about the same as my ranger does.

The only advantage ranger has over warrior in dungeons is that it can run full glass and sit at max range and not be punished for it. However, in full glass it still cannot provide anything more than just acceptable dps at best (given your arrows are even lined up for piercing shots) and some aoe vulnerability/cripple.

Yes you have entangle (at the cost of no stability) and muddy terrain. I would say these are some of the only really viable utilities you get for dungeons. The issue is, if your team is any good, these CC’s aren’t needed and are at the cost of much better DPS and support you could be getting from another class.

If you want to argue that ranger is great healing support, one only needs to look at a guardian or ele and know that the ranger is trumped once again.

Rangers in dungeons are the weakest of the classes no matter how skillfully they are played or what spec they are using, however they can be acceptable when done so.

Acceptable is all they will be however until utilities (like spirits) are fixed to account for the mediocre damage.

So going by this no class is effective as warrior is the only effective class.

Out of curiosity, what i the fastest time you have done in Arah with 5 warriors?

Recycle.5493:

KensaiZen.3740:

Recycle.5493:

KensaiZen.3740:

So you using another weapon will make you versatile at 1500 range how?

Why do you have to be so obsessed about that 1500 range? Does that extra 300 range bother you that much? Like other classes just can’t close that close of a gap?

It’s not about closing the gap. It’s about what the extra 300 range means.

More targets hit with piercing arrows.
Able to stay out of combat area completely whilst still contributing.

The strategic value of the extra 300 cannot be seen in a duel situation. Look at all teh other aspects of the game.

Please, address this issue and explain it in your “soon to come” video. Perhaps some zerg footage of you killing off enemies with your barrage, the more the better, around 20 kills per hours of WvW is convincing enough to me(If you’re on a tier 1/2 server anyways), don’t forget to turn on in-game clock for that.

The video is coming. just finished casual run through Cof 2 to show that pets can be kept alive all the way through.

WvW video may be slightly tougher seeing as bottom tier there rent that many people. The zergs here don’t get that big (10-20 ppl) but I will try to get some footage when I can.

There is hope for this community yet

Recycle.5493:

KensaiZen.3740:

So you using another weapon will make you versatile at 1500 range how?

Why do you have to be so obsessed about that 1500 range? Does that extra 300 range bother you that much? Like other classes just can’t close that close of a gap?

It’s not about closing the gap. It’s about what the extra 300 range means.

More targets hit with piercing arrows.
Able to stay out of combat area completely whilst still contributing.

The strategic value of the extra 300 cannot be seen in a duel situation. Look at all teh other aspects of the game.

Recycle.5493:

KensaiZen.3740:

In a 1v1 duel, who uses longbow? the weapon was not designed for it. I thought this was obvious. Your using a point that the LB is not a versatile weapon because it does not operate outside of what it was designed for.

The LB is part of what makes Rangers versatile. It is not THE thing that makes the Ranger versatile. Did you even read what I wrote or just skimmed it then continue to push your point about the longbow?

Hmm? I thought you said longbow is viable in all kinds of fights? What I’m pointing out is, what you said in this post.

KensaiZen.3740:

Recycle.5493:

KensaiZen.3740:

Versatile at range.

The power of the pet mechanic.

What’s so versatile about longbow? I must know this, because apparently you rock everywhere with your traited 1500 range godly longbow.

That’s just it, your all too focused on what kind of damage you can get out of the Ranger. Quite simply, the Ranger was not designed for burst damage. If it were teh case it would hit as hard as a warrior. The fact that it does not and that it will not get a damage buff on ranged weapons is because it was not designed to be omfg damage dealer.

What is so versatile about the longbow? its about as versatile as any other weapon any other class has at 1500 range. What makes it versatile is the synergy it has with the class mechanics.

The damage from LB is a high sustain damage. You alter this by using the pet mechanics. Birds and Cats for more DPS (factoring these damage it does go quite high) CC in the form of various pets. My personal favourite are the Dogs. AoE burst from drakes.

All of these pets can also be used at maxed range, haven’t tested how far the pets actually go yet but I know its FAR.

You can try to get a potential damage figure by taking the classes and using it at max range to calculate the sustained damage from the 1500 range weapon. Then you factor in the utilities and class mechanics. This should give an overall final figure as to the 1500 range effectiveness of the class based on damage only. If damage is all you are looking for then stop here. I you want more to a class then damage, then you factor in other things like support, and playstyle.

At the end you will have an image of what the design of the class is. Then you compare the design of the class with how you were expecting the class to be and how you think the class should be.

Is the class broken because it was always broken, or is the class broken because people just don’t understand how it was meant to work.

You said longbow is versatile, not pets are versatile, while giving example of how you completely rely on pets for your so called “versatility.” The only thing you said about longbow for the whole post is “sustained damage, sustained damage, range, and sustained damage.” We don’t care how many times you repeat it, if the only thing it brings to the table is ranged sustained damage, it isn’t versatile. It isn’t THE thing that makes ranger versatile. Just as I said, all you’re pointing out is pets, I could be the same or even more versatile ranger if I use any other weapon than longbow.

Furthermore, bring up warrior in discussion of PvP? Really? I hope you’re not going to say that warrior is just as viable in PvP as any other class, because it isn’t. Bring this up just makes you lose even more of your credibility.

No, I fully understand warriors are not omfg great in PvP. Their potential damage is FAR different to their effective damage. This is on of the main illusions that I am trying to dispel. There is a much smaller gap between Ranges potential damage and its effective damage. There are different ranges for all the classes.

Recycle.5493:

KensaiZen.3740:

In a 1v1 duel, who uses longbow? the weapon was not designed for it. I thought this was obvious. Your using a point that the LB is not a versatile weapon because it does not operate outside of what it was designed for.

The LB is part of what makes Rangers versatile. It is not THE thing that makes the Ranger versatile. Did you even read what I wrote or just skimmed it then continue to push your point about the longbow?

Hmm? I thought you said longbow is viable in all kinds of fights? What I’m pointing out is, what you said in this post.

KensaiZen.3740:

Recycle.5493:

KensaiZen.3740:

Versatile at range.

The power of the pet mechanic.

What’s so versatile about longbow? I must know this, because apparently you rock everywhere with your traited 1500 range godly longbow.

That’s just it, your all too focused on what kind of damage you can get out of the Ranger. Quite simply, the Ranger was not designed for burst damage. If it were teh case it would hit as hard as a warrior. The fact that it does not and that it will not get a damage buff on ranged weapons is because it was not designed to be omfg damage dealer.

What is so versatile about the longbow? its about as versatile as any other weapon any other class has at 1500 range. What makes it versatile is the synergy it has with the class mechanics.

The damage from LB is a high sustain damage. You alter this by using the pet mechanics. Birds and Cats for more DPS (factoring these damage it does go quite high) CC in the form of various pets. My personal favourite are the Dogs. AoE burst from drakes.

All of these pets can also be used at maxed range, haven’t tested how far the pets actually go yet but I know its FAR.

You can try to get a potential damage figure by taking the classes and using it at max range to calculate the sustained damage from the 1500 range weapon. Then you factor in the utilities and class mechanics. This should give an overall final figure as to the 1500 range effectiveness of the class based on damage only. If damage is all you are looking for then stop here. I you want more to a class then damage, then you factor in other things like support, and playstyle.

At the end you will have an image of what the design of the class is. Then you compare the design of the class with how you were expecting the class to be and how you think the class should be.

Is the class broken because it was always broken, or is the class broken because people just don’t understand how it was meant to work.

You said longbow is versatile, not pets are versatile, while giving example of how you completely rely on pets for your so called “versatility.” The only thing you said about longbow for the whole post is “sustained damage, sustained damage, range, and sustained damage.” We don’t care how many times you repeat it, if the only thing it brings to the table is ranged sustained damage, it isn’t versatile. It isn’t THE thing that makes ranger versatile. Just as I said, all you’re pointing out is pets, I could be the same or even more versatile ranger if I use any other weapon than longbow.

Furthermore, bring up warrior in discussion of PvP? Really? I hope you’re not going to say that warrior is just as viable in PvP as any other class, because it isn’t. Bring this up just makes you lose even more of your credibility.

So you using another weapon will make you versatile at 1500 range how?

jkctmc.8754:

KensaiZen.3740:

swiftpaw.6397:

KensaiZen.3740:

swiftpaw.6397:

KensaiZen.3740:

Neb.4170:

KensaiZen.3740:

Versatile at range.

The power of the pet mechanic.

Your definition of versatile is… strange.

Pets… I don’t know. I absolutely abhor the way pets are designed in this game and I dislike that we are stuck with them.

The Ranger not only does damage at Range (Longbow) but an also use the pet for support at long range. The many different pets you can pick allow for different support types. Damage, CC, Picking up agro.

You can also revive fallen allies from range.

This is a complete range class. Other classes do not match its versatility. I can understand why people hate the pet mechanic. The pets AI is bad so it does bad damage to the opponent. But the mechanic itself is much more then just DAMAGE. Actually the whole class itself is much more then just DAMAGE.

Most of the Rangers utilities are either CC, condition application or support. The spirit of the GW1 Ranger lives on.

Lets see, what kind of super amazing utility do we have that is going to be preferred over any other class when recruiting for a dungeon?

Not sure I’ve ever seen someone say ‘oh we have a warrior and a ranger that want to join but we only have space for one… We should take the ranger for his (sup par) damage, conditional pet and spirit res, cc and conditions!’

Bahahaha.

Oh god this thread is a joke. A-net really should have included a bag of popcorn with the collector’s edition.

Then why doesn’t everyone just play warrior then? Obviously your idea of a Ranger is exactly what you get from Rifle warrior.

Though to be perfectly honest, The community has been brainwashed by such idiotic trends for months. GC warriors outside of CoF 1 are just made to be picked up off the floor.

Probably because, despite other classes not being as effective as the warrior in dungeons, they get more or equal enjoyment out of them. This does not however make them more effective or as good. I have a warrior and a ranger, I may be way more useful on warrior, but I prefer to play my ranger because it is fun.

This does not = ranger being as effective as warrior.

What do you classify as effective?

“As good as other classes.”

Name me a class that is good at everything. And please don’t compare whats good of 5 different classes against 1 class. That’s just stupid.

Recycle.5493:

KensaiZen.3740:

What is so versatile about the longbow? its about as versatile as any other weapon any other class has at 1500 range. What makes it versatile is the synergy it has with the class mechanics.

Except that no one will stay farther than 1000 range when you’re fighting 1v1, which brings us back onto the topic of longbow viability. The only 3 utilities it offers are vulnerability, cripple, and a knock back. The vulnerability effects too little in a 1v1 fight, and it’s too easy to reach max in a zerg, it is great in dungeons, but that’s about it. The knock back isn’t far, it doesn’t cripple, and it doesn’t cause any other conditions, it’s way too easy to recover from in any kind of fight, and it’s really situational in PvE. Rapid fire and barrage are good for PvE, but horrible in any form of PvP. Sure, a mass cripple and impressive damage sounds all good and well, but the thing is, one dodge roll, just one, nullify the whole skill effectiveness even if you were in the center of it. Rapid fire is a great damage tool, potentially, but again, it suffers the same defect of dodge rolling nullifying the skill.

KensaiZen.3740:

The damage from LB is a high sustain damage. You alter this by using the pet mechanics. Birds and Cats for more DPS (factoring these damage it does go quite high) CC in the form of various pets. My personal favourite are the Dogs. AoE burst from drakes.

All of these pets can also be used at maxed range, haven’t tested how far the pets actually go yet but I know its FAR.

This has nothing to do with whatever weapon set you’re using, the “versatility,” so to speak, comes from the pets, not longbow. Your longbow does not offer this “versatility.” Heck, by your standard I could use any other weapon and be more versatile than longbow.

In a 1v1 duel, who uses longbow? the weapon was not designed for it. I thought this was obvious. Your using a point that the LB is not a versatile weapon because it does not operate outside of what it was designed for.

The LB is part of what makes Rangers versatile. It is not THE thing that makes the Ranger versatile. Did you even read what I wrote or just skimmed it then continue to push your point about the longbow?

swiftpaw.6397:

KensaiZen.3740:

swiftpaw.6397:

KensaiZen.3740:

Neb.4170:

KensaiZen.3740:

Versatile at range.

The power of the pet mechanic.

Your definition of versatile is… strange.

Pets… I don’t know. I absolutely abhor the way pets are designed in this game and I dislike that we are stuck with them.

The Ranger not only does damage at Range (Longbow) but an also use the pet for support at long range. The many different pets you can pick allow for different support types. Damage, CC, Picking up agro.

You can also revive fallen allies from range.

This is a complete range class. Other classes do not match its versatility. I can understand why people hate the pet mechanic. The pets AI is bad so it does bad damage to the opponent. But the mechanic itself is much more then just DAMAGE. Actually the whole class itself is much more then just DAMAGE.

Most of the Rangers utilities are either CC, condition application or support. The spirit of the GW1 Ranger lives on.

Lets see, what kind of super amazing utility do we have that is going to be preferred over any other class when recruiting for a dungeon?

Not sure I’ve ever seen someone say ‘oh we have a warrior and a ranger that want to join but we only have space for one… We should take the ranger for his (sup par) damage, conditional pet and spirit res, cc and conditions!’

Bahahaha.

Oh god this thread is a joke. A-net really should have included a bag of popcorn with the collector’s edition.

Then why doesn’t everyone just play warrior then? Obviously your idea of a Ranger is exactly what you get from Rifle warrior.

Though to be perfectly honest, The community has been brainwashed by such idiotic trends for months. GC warriors outside of CoF 1 are just made to be picked up off the floor.

Probably because, despite other classes not being as effective as the warrior in dungeons, they get more or equal enjoyment out of them. This does not however make them more effective or as good. I have a warrior and a ranger, I may be way more useful on warrior, but I prefer to play my ranger because it is fun.

This does not = ranger being as effective as warrior.

What do you classify as effective?

swiftpaw.6397:

KensaiZen.3740:

Neb.4170:

KensaiZen.3740:

Versatile at range.

The power of the pet mechanic.

Your definition of versatile is… strange.

Pets… I don’t know. I absolutely abhor the way pets are designed in this game and I dislike that we are stuck with them.

The Ranger not only does damage at Range (Longbow) but an also use the pet for support at long range. The many different pets you can pick allow for different support types. Damage, CC, Picking up agro.

You can also revive fallen allies from range.

This is a complete range class. Other classes do not match its versatility. I can understand why people hate the pet mechanic. The pets AI is bad so it does bad damage to the opponent. But the mechanic itself is much more then just DAMAGE. Actually the whole class itself is much more then just DAMAGE.

Most of the Rangers utilities are either CC, condition application or support. The spirit of the GW1 Ranger lives on.

Lets see, what kind of super amazing utility do we have that is going to be preferred over any other class when recruiting for a dungeon?

Not sure I’ve ever seen someone say ‘oh we have a warrior and a ranger that want to join but we only have space for one… We should take the ranger for his (sup par) damage, conditional pet and spirit res, cc and conditions!’

Bahahaha.

Oh god this thread is a joke. A-net really should have included a bag of popcorn with the collector’s edition.

Then why doesn’t everyone just play warrior then? Obviously your idea of a Ranger is exactly what you get from Rifle warrior.

Though to be perfectly honest, The community has been brainwashed by such idiotic trends for months. GC warriors outside of CoF 1 are just made to be picked up off the floor.

Recycle.5493:

KensaiZen.3740:

Versatile at range.

The power of the pet mechanic.

What’s so versatile about longbow? I must know this, because apparently you rock everywhere with your traited 1500 range godly longbow.

That’s just it, your all too focused on what kind of damage you can get out of the Ranger. Quite simply, the Ranger was not designed for burst damage. If it were teh case it would hit as hard as a warrior. The fact that it does not and that it will not get a damage buff on ranged weapons is because it was not designed to be omfg damage dealer.

What is so versatile about the longbow? its about as versatile as any other weapon any other class has at 1500 range. What makes it versatile is the synergy it has with the class mechanics.

The damage from LB is a high sustain damage. You alter this by using the pet mechanics. Birds and Cats for more DPS (factoring these damage it does go quite high) CC in the form of various pets. My personal favourite are the Dogs. AoE burst from drakes.

All of these pets can also be used at maxed range, haven’t tested how far the pets actually go yet but I know its FAR.

You can try to get a potential damage figure by taking the classes and using it at max range to calculate the sustained damage from the 1500 range weapon. Then you factor in the utilities and class mechanics. This should give an overall final figure as to the 1500 range effectiveness of the class based on damage only. If damage is all you are looking for then stop here. I you want more to a class then damage, then you factor in other things like support, and playstyle.

At the end you will have an image of what the design of the class is. Then you compare the design of the class with how you were expecting the class to be and how you think the class should be.

Is the class broken because it was always broken, or is the class broken because people just don’t understand how it was meant to work.

Neb.4170:

KensaiZen.3740:

Versatile at range.

The power of the pet mechanic.

Your definition of versatile is… strange.

Pets… I don’t know. I absolutely abhor the way pets are designed in this game and I dislike that we are stuck with them.

The Ranger not only does damage at Range (Longbow) but an also use the pet for support at long range. The many different pets you can pick allow for different support types. Damage, CC, Picking up agro.

You can also revive fallen allies from range.

This is a complete range class. Other classes do not match its versatility. I can understand why people hate the pet mechanic. The pets AI is bad so it does bad damage to the opponent. But the mechanic itself is much more then just DAMAGE. Actually the whole class itself is much more then just DAMAGE.

Most of the Rangers utilities are either CC, condition application or support. The spirit of the GW1 Ranger lives on.

Versatile at range.

The power of the pet mechanic.

The “best” that I see in the Ranger class is versatility. That answer your question?

So your warrior is able to out damage the Ranger at range. Are those buffs team wide or just yourself? you have great survivability. that’s great for you.

So apart from being able to damage. What else can it do?

And once again we are back on the subject of DAMAGE lol goes round in circles doesn’t it.

Neb.4170:

KensaiZen.3740:

Neb.4170:

KensaiZen.3740:

Neb.4170:

KensaiZen.3740:

What other class can do AoE at 1500 range?

Engineer. With more damage and utility (Poison, Chill, Burning, Bleeding and Vulnerability) and more AoE.

Grenades say hi.

You can consecutively throw grenades at 1500 range with every throw? must have been in one of the patches. I haven’t played a Engineer for a long time. Unless you re just BSing and using 1 skill on a massively long cooldown as a counter point.

Uhhh… what? Traited grenade range is 1500 for all grenade skills.

Sweet, I didn’t know that thanks for telling me. Was it always the case since launch?

Yes. Grenadier trait.

You may want to look into other classes before claiming the Ranger is ‘the best’ at something. Just a general tip.

So whilst both classes can do damage at 1500 range. What else can the engineer do at that range?

Neb.4170:

KensaiZen.3740:

Neb.4170:

KensaiZen.3740:

What other class can do AoE at 1500 range?

Engineer. With more damage and utility (Poison, Chill, Burning, Bleeding and Vulnerability) and more AoE.

Grenades say hi.

You can consecutively throw grenades at 1500 range with every throw? must have been in one of the patches. I haven’t played a Engineer for a long time. Unless you re just BSing and using 1 skill on a massively long cooldown as a counter point.

Uhhh… what? Traited grenade range is 1500 for all grenade skills.

Sweet, I didn’t know that thanks for telling me. Was it always the case since launch?

jkctmc.8754:

KensaiZen.3740:

Anet once said “every class will be able to do anything”

What Anet didn’t say “Every class will be able to do everything equally well”

Some classes are much better at melee than others. These I call melee classes. They may have builds that allow them to use a ranged weapon. Every class has a ranged weapon. But they really aren’t that good at it.

And you would be wrong. That is the issue with you. Your lack of knowledge in this game is unreal.

But I’ll bite. What classes are the best at melee, and ranged? This should be good.

So your asking for my opinion on what “I” consider the best then when it doesn’t conform to “YOUR” opinion I am wrong and lacking knowledge. That’s right isn’t it.

Ever considered what YOU know may not be everything there is to know?. I think we just found the problem.

Neb.4170:

KensaiZen.3740:

What other class can do AoE at 1500 range?

Engineer. With more damage and utility (Poison, Chill, Burning, Bleeding and Vulnerability) and more AoE.

Grenades say hi.

You can consecutively throw grenades at 1500 range with every throw? must have been in one of the patches. I haven’t played a Engineer for a long time. Unless you re just BSing and using 1 skill on a massively long cooldown as a counter point.

jkctmc.8754:

KensaiZen.3740:

Hang on a minute… so let me get this right. You don’t think the Ranger performs very well because it lacks in the area that YOU play in.

I think Im starting to understand whats wrong with this community

You have a poor reading comprehension.

This game has three areas of play; PvE, WvW, and sPvP/tPvP. Every class needs to perform effectively in all three to be absolutely balanced. Unfortunately the developers have some work because most classes do not.

I’m sorry you can not grasp the basic knowledge of the game to understand why this is important.

It’s why I think Guardians and Mesmers need access to a 25% speed boost, why I think Warrior banners need to be placed on a Warriors back, with F2-F5 abilities based off the banners they have equipped, and so on.

I want a fully balanced, and fun game that makes use of everything in it. Nothing in any MMO has bothered me more than an ability that is either useless, or not up to par with other abilities. See the large number of useless weapons, a list compiled from all classes in the game.

Why you think?. So all this is based on your opinion and whatever you think is correct. Even the game design itself.

Well done you. The only “balanced” aspect to this game was only ever supposed to be SPvP/TPvP. What YOU think the balance was supposed to be is irrelevant.

You are one very deluded individual.

Anet once said “every class will be able to do anything”

What Anet didn’t say “Every class will be able to do everything equally well”

Some classes are much better at melee than others. These I call melee classes. They may have builds that allow them to use a ranged weapon. Every class has a ranged weapon. But they really aren’t that good at it.

Hang on a minute… so let me get this right. You don’t think the Ranger performs very well because it lacks in the area that YOU play in.

I think Im starting to understand whats wrong with this community