Guild Wars 2

kidbs.8920:

OP you make a notable effort, but ranger’s are hardly godly. While I don’t subscribe to the QQ that so many others do with regards to rangers, I also do not consider them to be a premiere dps class. Too much of the ranger’s damage is tied to their pet, so when a pet can’t be used your damage will be some of the lowest in the game.

Ranger’s are great at roaming and dueling but this isn’t because of their high dps.

This is where I disagree. Rangers sustained damage without the pet is quite high as it is. And the bonus is that because of the playstyle of the Ranger (master of ranged) that dps does not drop due to factor such as being CC’ed or having to dodge or try to kite when attracting agro of a champion or boss.

Rangers may not be Godly in terms of getting high numbers for damage. But their potential AoE damage compared to single target DPs numbers is phenomenal.

I don’t get the QQing at all. The only time I actually thought there as merit tot eh QQing was when I rolled a GC build which worked in PvE then went and got slaughtered in WvW.

Neb.4170:

KensaiZen.3740:

The Rangers damage is comparable to the Guardians damage. A normal attack is around the 700-800 (1st trait line maxed) crits for about 1300-1400 (berserker earrings and amulet and knights rings)

This is comparable to the Guardian with full berserkers accessories. And as we all know, Guardians may not hit as had as warriors, but they have no trouble killing any other classes.

Guardians (In mostly Zerker gear) hit for much more than that. Sword (One hander) auto attack crits for 2k on the normal swings and 3x 1k on the finisher.

~6-7k on the short channel attack.

The rest of your post is nonsense, but yeah, if you want to cheerleader a broken class go for it.

Your comparing a glass cannon 1h sword Guardian to a non glass cannon Ranger. well done.

LB2 hits for 6-7k non glass cannon build at a range of 1500 (traited) and can hit up to 5 people at the same time.

See the difference?

I will continue to experiment with the Class to see how “broken” it really is. Just to throw it out there though I have worked in QA in one of the largest games developer/publishers for over 4 years and do have some merit in knowing what is as designed and what is broken.

There is a reason different pets do different damage scales. As designed.

Sebrent.3625:

KensaiZen.3740:

You can maintain a good amount of regen if you use 2 pets that have them.

Ranger pets on land with Regen for group:
(1) Fern Hound
(2) N/A

Do please explain what you’re talking about here. I’d love to know what “2 pets that use them” (regen) you’re talking about.

Oh my bad, not 2 pets with regen. Just 1 regen and one outright AoE heal. So thats one regen and a little burst healing. I never claim to be a master at the class and know everything. But like I said. If a noob Ranger like me can do it, whats stopping you pros?

Swagger.1459:

KensaiZen.3740:

Now here is the thing that has been bugging me. People who test damage on dummies and calculate the DPS output of the class and compare it against another class. This is not actually accurate and the result will not actually show you the DPS of te class in a “Live” situation

One thing you have to consider is that warriors or thieves are melee classes. This means that they will spend quite a bit of their time dodging and rolling and moving weaving their way in and out of AoE’s. This reduces the amount of actual DPS. The tests people do are mainly against unmoving targets that do not hit back. It is possible to get extremely high numbers if you stand and attack something for 30 seconds however, it is a very rare occassion where you will be able to do such thing in the actual game itself.

The Ranger is equipped with very good ranged weapons. This allows them to maintain max and still keep the damage flowing. Using a LB with extended range, the ranger is completely clear from the combat area. The damage that is done from rangers is a constant that does not stop. Both bows allow for good consistent damage at any range.

I’ve been running dungeons constantly with the Ranger and have found this class to be amazingly versatile and by simply switching utilities for the right encounter (am I going to be a turret or do I need to kite) The speed does not decrease.

Even in WvW I don’t know why people QQ about the Ranger. Even against thieves we have utilities that allow us to have the advantage (protect me and SoS means thier bursts do no damage to you) The only down side I see is people speccing as a glass cannon then moan when they die so easily.

For those who do not believe, I will do a video soon. I am relatively new to the Ranger class and Im not that great a player either, but if someone like me can do it…. anyoe can. It’s not all about damage.

what bugs me is when players have very little experience with a profession and understanding of the meta make a thread claiming to know more than experienced players who have invested a lot of time playing and analyzing profession capabilities and mechanics.

sure rangers can perform well under certain circumstances, but so can any profession, if not better. all professions need work but there are other professions who will outperform rangers when manned by players of equal skill level. also, your videos will prove nothing except that you are capable of ranging things in dungeons when you don’t have aggro and are beating up noobie quality players in wvw.

If this is the case then rangers would not be considered the best duelist in the game. It’s definitely not the class that’s unplayable. I strongly believe its just people trying to do something with it that its not designed for.

I’ve mained as a Guardian since launch. I know what it feels like to be pretty OP.

The Rangers damage is comparable to the Guardians damage. A normal attack is around the 700-800 (1st trait line maxed) crits for about 1300-1400 (berserker earrings and amulet and knights rings)

This is comparable to the Guardian with full berserkers accessories. And as we all know, Guardians may not hit as had as warriors, but they have no trouble killing any other classes.

Now some may say “well its because they have high toughness and armour value”. Well, the figures I used just now f the Ranger was from also having 30 in wilderness survival bringing the rangers toughness to a nice 1600 (with the right runes and knights armour) enough staying power to survive bursts from even a Thief.

Now this s the other thing to factor in. Pet damage. Wit only 5 points in BM the jaguar is still capable of hitting over 2000 damage per crit. Birds can still do their 4000 burst F2 skill. So before we factor in the damage of the pets we can see that the damage i already comparable to a class that is considered one of the strongest in the game. Sure its not as high as the thief or warrior, but does it need to be? no.

As for supporting your team at 1500? its called pet management. Pets have AoE support skills that can be used to help support your team. Who says the Ranger was only limited to healing spring to help support the team? You can maintain a good amount of regen if you use 2 pets that have them. The uptime on the regen is pretty good overall. The other aspect of staying at max range is that you do not tke any damage or agro. This allows you to use healing skills like heal as one or troll ungent purely for your pets survival. By keeping your pet alive longer it allows it to deal more dmg thus increasing your overall DPS.

“Staying at max ranger with longbow is NOT what any half competent ranger should do, unless very specific situations”

There is a reason why the weapon is designed to penalise you if you go in too close. It is so obvious that its painful to see people who suck at using a LB and complain that the weapon is broken. For 600-1200 range skirmishes there is the shortbow which is perfectly designed for closer encounters and suffers no penalty. Notice why most people feel that the SB is a far more practical weapon in WvW? it is because it has a massively lower learning curve.

Rangers like in GW1 are for controlling the flow of battle. They are the masters of conditions and crowd control. It is a class that requires a lot of deep thinking in strategy and placements. You have think of a good firing position, a good place to plant traps, a secure place to set spirits. Do you see the trend? Rangers can still play “shut out” like they did in GW1 though I do have to admit it is a bit harder in GW2 but it can be done.

Oh and here is another thing I noticed. The rangers absolutely rubbish condition removals and counter CC skills. Yes, I know this is the case. But I also notice that the rune of the nature goddess helps to reduce condition duration and stun duration. I am used to running full Melandru set with lemongrass poultry soup for -65% condition duration. You simply do not worry about being CC’ed.

Current set up being tested in WvW 30/0/30/5/5. Knights melandru armour. LB/GS. Jaguar/Wolf.

Now here is the thing that has been bugging me. People who test damage on dummies and calculate the DPS output of the class and compare it against another class. This is not actually accurate and the result will not actually show you the DPS of te class in a “Live” situation

One thing you have to consider is that warriors or thieves are melee classes. This means that they will spend quite a bit of their time dodging and rolling and moving weaving their way in and out of AoE’s. This reduces the amount of actual DPS. The tests people do are mainly against unmoving targets that do not hit back. It is possible to get extremely high numbers if you stand and attack something for 30 seconds however, it is a very rare occassion where you will be able to do such thing in the actual game itself.

The Ranger is equipped with very good ranged weapons. This allows them to maintain max and still keep the damage flowing. Using a LB with extended range, the ranger is completely clear from the combat area. The damage that is done from rangers is a constant that does not stop. Both bows allow for good consistent damage at any range.

I’ve been running dungeons constantly with the Ranger and have found this class to be amazingly versatile and by simply switching utilities for the right encounter (am I going to be a turret or do I need to kite) The speed does not decrease.

Even in WvW I don’t know why people QQ about the Ranger. Even against thieves we have utilities that allow us to have the advantage (protect me and SoS means thier bursts do no damage to you) The only down side I see is people speccing as a glass cannon then moan when they die so easily.

For those who do not believe, I will do a video soon. I am relatively new to the Ranger class and Im not that great a player either, but if someone like me can do it…. anyoe can. It’s not all about damage.

Maybe its because his build isn’t based on Damage? it is more focused on group support by providing CC and constantly application of conditions so people who like to remove conditions will blow them on constantly reapplied conditions.

Just piercing arrows allows him to to constantly keep burning on the enemy group with EVERY shot of the longbow. I know it says there is a chance of 32% to get the buff from the sun spirit, but from my experience in using it the buff feels like its on pretty much 100% of the time.

Also this style of play requires the players to stay at 1200. This means placing the spirit at a range of 2100 from the enemy. Good luck with hitting it with an AoE at 2100 range.

He clearly states it is not his job to DPS. What is hard to get?

Someone else that has figured out what the

It is such a kitten CC weapon and have stupidly good synergy with applying conditions to entire groups non stop its crazy.

For all those people that is reading this. Range support should be played at max range. If you spec for range support and find yourself in melee A LOT of the time. Your doing it wrong.

ok now to ignore the math and look at it in a mechanical way. By decreasing the speed of quickness it means you will NOT waste channeled skills like LB2 to an opponent that dodges. More of your arrows will hit meaning more damage.

Condition gets removed? Put another one on again instantly. It’s not like the ranger can’t do it with every shot. Also the thing with condition removers. It doesn’t get rid of every condition.

The ranger can pretty much keep 3 different conditions applied constantly. Most condition removals have at least a 10 second CD. Plenty of time to do damage.

Bursty classes may still have auto attacks left to use, but the idea is to avoid their burst so that you can eat through their glass armour and crap for HP. They trade their life for damage and this is where sustained damage comes to play.

The numbers on rangers damage doesn’t look high. But it’s quick and has access to a lot of quickness.

Neb.4170:

KensaiZen.3740:

Neb.4170:

KensaiZen.3740:

Let me tell you a simple combo that you may want to use. Use the torch 5, then use LB2 and fire into a group of people. Make sure you have piercing arrow and eagle eye traited. Watch the numbers each shot adds burning duration. Same with other combo fields.

Rangers are so versatile. Not all people who play them are. This is the issue.

Yeah that MEGAHUGE burning damage totally makes this so much more effective than a simple blast finisher for AoE 3 might stacks.

Delusions.

Can you calculate the difference between the damage of adding 3 might stacks and 5 stacks of burning?

3 Stacks of Might on four or five people vastly outweighs a small amount of burning.

Especially since…
a. Other professions can stack burning easier, with better effects
b. Burning doesn’t ‘stack’, ‘5 stacks of burning’ doesn’t mean anything. Burning increases duration, not intensity.
c. You’d have done more damage with Barrage in an AoE situation.

Too bad rangers have no reliable blast finishers, another reason they are simply outclassed.

1, you are at 1500 range with a longbow, 1200 range with a short now. How many people will get those 3 stacks of might? does 3 stacks of might increase the g to 300+ per person?

2, burning ticks for 300-500 per tick. Used with LB2 came give how’s my ticks of burning? Do the math. It’s not all about burst damage. And that’s hitting all enemies in the line of fire. LB5 has shorter range but wider area. But hey you have both skills on the same weapon meaning rangers are supreme at multi target damage.

Rangers damage is not high burst. It is high sustained damage. for some strange reason people just can’t get their heads round this simple thing.

I’ve played a Guardian for a very long time. I know what the limitations of the class is. Sceptre 3 will root for 2 seconds. If you use me melandru runes and lemongrass poultry soup this drops to 1 second. Pretty much ineffective.

JI will hit and close the gap but a simple dodge then GS3 and the ranger is out of combat again.

The only thing that will keep a Guardian in check with the ranger is Sword 2 blink.

Playing against a GS Guardian isn’t much trouble either. Only noobs get caught by GS5. You manage to land it. You know you are fighting a noob.

Kiting with ranger doesn’t mean to walk backward and keep shooting. Nor does it mean to keeping dodging and shooting. You literally run like hell, get as far away as possible then turn and shoot when you cripple or knock back or burst is off cool down. All this is happening as your pet still hits now and again chipping away at opponents hp and crippling him or knocking him down.

If your not spec for skirmishing and survival, if your in 900 range, you are doing it wrong. Running away lets your UT do its full effect as well as any regen you have. It’s a game of attrition where you have all the speed to get away.

You don’t use it AGAINST him. You use it to GET AWAY FROM HIM. That is the usefulness of the GS.

If you look at the skill set for it it has a movement skill. a block skill. a stun skill.

2 skills that do pretty much NO damage. its not a DPS weapon.

See a red circle? pet swap. See another red circle? F3.

There is a time to use pets and there are times to keep them back. 90% of the time your healing skill isn’t even meant to be for you.

Dont do fractals until the next patch. They will add agony resist to pets then.

urdriel.8496:

KensaiZen.3740:

Rangers = sustained ranged DPS

You have skills that increases group DPS by 10% And one that does burning (spirits are kitten useful) This is a massive boost for the entire party and overall DPS. In a party or group based environment, who cares about personal DPS? 10% damage boost group wide is better than buffing yourself 20% dmg. Think about it.

Rangers = Masters of crowd control

You have skills that interrupt, cripple, root, knock back, stun etc etc AND you can use most of them at range. Rangers are shut out kings. learn how to use these skills. It is not just about DPS. What good is a party of warriors if they are all dead? even if 1 dies the reduction in DPS is massive for the entire party. You use your skills to control the mobs.

I stopped taking my Guardian into Dungeons. It is far more fun on the ranger and I actually use spirits for dungeons. Spirits are very powerful. Learn to use them and you will see the difference. Normal utilitiy set up for dungeon for me is slot 7 and 8 for spirits (swap them when needs arise) and 9 for search and rescue.

Oh and 1 more thing. Your LB at maxed range with eagle eye is outside of bosses attack range. Think about it.

Your post is about PVE, no??because if you are fighting against a normal player, you cant kite him, all melee classes have an ANTIKITE skill/button in GW2 .

Yes this is talking about dungeons and PvE. In WvW and PvP the strategy and tactics are slightly different. In WvW and PvP its either you spec for melee or hybrid and use ranged as an optional weapon or you max out your range and hang back away from the fight and just shoot into the crowd.

However, you can kite a Guardian. They are next to useless against someone who actually knows how to kite. please note, use minus condition duration runes and food. No one can catch you. Use GS as a gtfo weapon and not a kill kill kill weapon and you can kite very well.

Neb.4170:

KensaiZen.3740:

Let me tell you a simple combo that you may want to use. Use the torch 5, then use LB2 and fire into a group of people. Make sure you have piercing arrow and eagle eye traited. Watch the numbers each shot adds burning duration. Same with other combo fields.

Rangers are so versatile. Not all people who play them are. This is the issue.

Yeah that MEGAHUGE burning damage totally makes this so much more effective than a simple blast finisher for AoE 3 might stacks.

Delusions.

Can you calculate the difference between the damage of adding 3 might stacks and 5 stacks of burning?

fakeblood.2576:

KensaiZen.3740:

You have to use your brain when using spirits. Don’t place them in combat range. Then they don’t need to be invincible.

Also the trait that makes them move with you says to me that the initial idea is, rangers never get in to actual combat range so your sports move from point to point. Tactical placement. It’s not that difficult.

Not that difficult? Then why do people complain about pets dying? It’s the same problem and if u “tactical place a spirit” their range isn’t that great so then the effect is useless. You can be as far as possible with them following doesn’t negate aoe still hitting you

You get these buffs on hit. Which means that the person is either 1, using a ranged weapon to stay within range of the spirits buff in which case they are fine and wont be hit. 2, they kite the boss (who face tanks a boss these days?..well apart from Guards) so they eventually will run into the range of the spirits.

Most people aren’t tactically minded and can only think kill kill kill. kill in the fastest way possible. DPS DPS DPS. That’s a warrior, NOT a ranger.

This is why a hell of a lot of people are crying about the Ranger. They just don’t understand the class. Hell, some people even go as far as to say there is no synergy in the traits and builds. That’s hilarious.

Which class can bring 60 minutes of protection and 10% dmg boost AND burning on attack whilst specing for Damage? not to mention the massive healing from healing spring and pets.

That right there, is a support style that requires NO TRAITS. Which class can do that?

Let me tell you a simple combo that you may want to use. Use the torch 5, then use LB2 and fire into a group of people. Make sure you have piercing arrow and eagle eye traited. Watch the numbers each shot adds burning duration. Same with other combo fields.

You can build however you want and still be able to use most of the utilities without reduction. You can change skills and play style at will mid way through dungeons. Without having to be forced into 1 build.

Rangers are so versatile. Not all people who play them are. This is the issue.

I’m glad there are rangers out there who know what they are doing nit will make the game far more interesting.

I am having so much fun on the Ranger I barely play my guardian anymore.

“I almost never die. My pet almost never dies. But that’s because I got over 8 years of MMO experience and am quite good at the game.”

So you’ve learned to play. Are you saying you are that awesome that those other people cant? Are those people out there who get absolutely destroyed in dungeons are just too stupid that they have to dumb down the class so any idiot can play it?

The Ranger may need a few tweaks here and there but the MECHANICS OF THE CLASS IS NOT BROKEN. It is as designed. It will never change. Learn to adapt to the mechanic of a GW2 ranger rather than a WoW Ranger.

In the spirit of fairness we may as well give thief class higher toughness and healing and the Guardian some effective range weapons. Better yet, may as well give all of them the same DPS as warriors too.

@Solid

I’m sure that’s not exactly what those people who complain about it want. They want Ranger to be able to do 100% of the damage by itself without the pet. Which is changing the mechanic of the entire class. Longbow to do 2k-3k per shot non crit. This is how ridiculous these cry babies want.

If it’s just stowing the pet because they don’t want it to agro stuff. That’s a good idea and will be good and easy to implement. Though tbh it’s not like the pet will agro much if its set to follow anyway, but there are times it does.

You have to use your brain when using spirits. Don’t place them in combat range. Then they don’t need to be invincible.

Also the trait that makes them move with you says to me that the initial idea is, rangers never get in to actual combat range so your sports move from point to point. Tactical placement. It’s not that difficult.

Seriously? Rangers have crap support? Do you know how powerful maintaining ape protection on your group is? And main training it for 1 whole minute!

The other factor, we have access to 2 count it 2 skills that can pick up dead people. Not downed. Completely dead. This alone is worth it’s weight in gold as it prevents a wipe.

Add to this the DMG boost buffs from spirits. Ability to draw all conditions from allies.

If you people are having trouble as a ranger in a dungeon, you need to reevaluate how you are playing the class.

There are other rangers out there who have no troubles in dungeons too. It is a L2 kitten ue. Rangers in gw2 is not like any other game. L2P. Pets keep dying? L2P. Trying to DPS instead of controlling the flow of the fight? L2P.

Do you want to know what the ranger is good at that no other class can do? Long range AoE and control. No other class can match rangers in this field. People don’t understand this because there are no numbers too crunch, no obvious figures to read.

The ranger can do with a few tweaks here and there but a class that is considered to be the best duelist in the game claim to be unplayable broken? You have got to be kittenting me.

Anet designed the ranger a certain way. You can’t make it work and you want to change it to suit your simplistic play style.

As for the issue with the pet. Compare your damage with non DPS classes like a engineer, necro or guardian then tell me you don’t do enough damage without a pet.

It’s because people always complain and want this and that and “it’s not fair” BS that there have been many nerfs to every profession. Keep going with that mentality, you will never get a super buff. You will never get a fundamental change on the class design. All you will get are narrow minded sheep who can’t see the ranger for what it is and only focus on the things it was not designed to do.

Of you want a class with uber damage and no pet. Roll a warrior. Not try to turn the ranger into one. The ranger has tools and utilities up make a great class especially in group combat. L2P.

Rangers = sustained ranged DPS

You have skills that increases group DPS by 10% And one that does burning (spirits are kitten useful) This is a massive boost for the entire party and overall DPS. In a party or group based environment, who cares about personal DPS? 10% damage boost group wide is better than buffing yourself 20% dmg. Think about it.

Rangers = Masters of crowd control

You have skills that interrupt, cripple, root, knock back, stun etc etc AND you can use most of them at range. Rangers are shut out kings. learn how to use these skills. It is not just about DPS. What good is a party of warriors if they are all dead? even if 1 dies the reduction in DPS is massive for the entire party. You use your skills to control the mobs.

I stopped taking my Guardian into Dungeons. It is far more fun on the ranger and I actually use spirits for dungeons. Spirits are very powerful. Learn to use them and you will see the difference. Normal utilitiy set up for dungeon for me is slot 7 and 8 for spirits (swap them when needs arise) and 9 for search and rescue.

Oh and 1 more thing. Your LB at maxed range with eagle eye is outside of bosses attack range. Think about it.

Daemon.4295:

Dahkeus.8243:

Daemon.4295:

Dahkeus.8243:

Terkov.4138:

It’s actually one of the best skills we have…

^ this.

Even if you don’t use it as a way to create distance, it’s great for:

1) Interrupting enemies using big skills *cough*hundred blades*cough*
2) Knocking people off of ledges
3) Preventing someone from stomping an ally

And that’s just in PvP.

If you’re just spamming in on cooldown as a desperate attempt to get a melee off of you, then you’re not using it right.

This. LB4 is an a great skill in WvW (and PvE), the only thing I’d trade it for would be a snare, like Warrior LB’s pin down.

Yea, I’m jealous of pin down, but point blank is the only knock back ability rangers have unless you count the one that is a counter attack on the greatsword.

And anyone that does jumping puzzles in WvW, knows how valuable a knock back is.

The knock back is great, but rapid fire is too easy to dodge and barrage is practically impossible to land on a human target. A pin would be essential and would really boost Longbow damage. Sure, against the golem in the mists I have no complaints, but you can only state that “longbow damage is really strong” (latest state-of-the-game interview) if you assume that all its attacks are landing. Sometimes I get the feeling that the devs don’t take actual combat mechanics into account enough when assessing weapons.

It will land if you use it in conjunction with lets say….your pets cripple, your pets knock down, your pets rooting skills etc

The LB is an awesome weapon. But like most of the Ranger mechanic. It is great when used in conjunction with something else. Ranger synergy does exist. Its just not as straight forward as other classes synergy.

Longbow+eagle eye+piercing arrows = Insanely high AOE dmg rate. LB is an AOE weapon. It is not designed as a DPS weapon. If you want DPS, use a shortbow.

From looking at the class as whole, it becomes clear that they designed the ranger with 2 distinct mechanics at each pole.

1, Range support. You use the LB to bomb the enemy from VERY far away. You have long range pets that can use range and AoE (surprise surprise). Spirits that give you buff on hit that is not meant to be used any where near the enemy. Traits that turn you into an AoE machine..with every shot!

2, Close range skirmisher. You are given a weapon that makes you stick like glue to an enemy and keeps them crippled 100% and jumps to them even if they dodge. Quickness abilities for short bursts. Utilities that make you take no damage. Many evade skills. evade traits.

Then you have hybrids which are a mix of both but not strong at either.

These do not fall under DPS or tank. As the ranger does incredible AoE damage whilst moving! Warriors do higher DPS but they have to be standing still. I would rather have DPS that hits 90% of the time then a massive DPS skill that hits 10% of the time (if you cant dodge warrior HB or killshot… there is no helping you)

The Pet mechanic is not a be all and end all of the class. Sure it gives a boost to damage (who says the ranger is supposed to hit that high in the first place? most all pets do 30% of your dmg) Pets give rangers access to many utilities that isn’t available in his skill set.

Pets are not purely there for DPS. People are too fixated on DPS. Rangers in GW1 were masters of crowed control. In GW2 they are still masters of crowed control. They aren’t DPS machines like in other standard MMO’s. You can play a ranger without even thinking about the pet. It will still help you do extra dmg and use its skills when it can. If it doesn’t? well you haven’t really lost out on much as it was never traited for and would have done kittenty dmg anyway.

The pet mechanic is a very important part of the Ranger. However, how many Rangers out there have managed to complete dungeons and boss fights with a dead pet? In WvW Rangers are still a pain in the kitten to fight if played properly.

OMFG DPS win! is not a role. From my perspective the Ranger class does what it is supposed to do very well (I have tried both Melee and Range and hybrid builds) So the Ranger is filling its role very well. However, this role is not the same one that is envisioned by most players.

Can’t help those people who try to make an apple into an orange. L2P.

Who said anything about using a SB?

I’ve just tested it in Mists. Heavy Golem dies in just under 6 seconds. Medium the same. Light was almost instant death.

This isn’t about who hits higher than who. To even try to compare dmg is stupid in itself. The ranger does not out damage a warrior and never will. However, It doesn’t require 20k damage to kill someone with 10k, get it?

Warriors high burst comes from HB which is a static skill. Anyone and their mother can dodge it or do something to stop it. The Ranger does not have a high burst skill but it has access to a weapon that sticks to the opponent like glue and deal considerable damage. At present my 1h sword crits for around 1.6k to 1.7k. Whats so good about it is there is no escape from it by simply dodging. Add in 2 seconds of quickness and there is your small burst of high dmg.

6 seconds is the threshold since there is a skill that makes you invulnerable to direct attacks for 6 seconds. There is also a skill that transfers all dmg to pet for 6 seconds.

6 seconds is all the time you need to kill someone. Considering you take no direct damage and have a elite that gives you 20 seconds of stability. What is stopping you from killing your target?

Also bear in mind you’ve probably already hit them for a few thousand points of damage as you can shoot them from range.

There is a reason why there are long kitten CD’s on those skills. It is because they are VERY powerful.

None of this factors in the pet at all. With pet damage it will speed things up even faster. if you use a bird of prey with longbow you get to give your enemy a nice 20 stacks of vulnerability just as they enter melee range. Even more damage. Without pet its 10 stacks which is still good enough.

Rangers dmg isn’t as high as warriors. So what? You don’t need to one shot people. You just need to be successful in getting that damage across. What good is a high damage skill if it is dodged?

Yes I understand the mechanics of it, but when you spec into trait line 1 and 2 you have more then enough dmg to kill by yourself. Anything the pet does is just a bonus.

This is what I mean by just treating the pet like it doesn’t exist. Without points in BM the pet is pretty much useless anyway. The extra points into the other damage traits more then make up for the missing pet dmg.

The Ranger can spec for glass cannon but has access to make them not take damage. It’s insanely powerful. Imagine a thief with 6 seconds of invulnerability and 2 health bars ( to absorb 6 seconds of damage to pet)

The only prof I have seen in this game to be able to do such a thing.

I have been thinking about this some what too. It is a good skill. It is very valuable in the right hands. However, because of the cast time (a bit long for an interrupt) the only thing you can interrupt (factoring in range for a longbow) would be a skill that requires 2 seconds or more to cast.

If they made this skill instant shot like LB3 it would be a win skill. You can actually interrupt people when you intend to!

Do you realise even with that damage reduction you are still hitting like a truck? the pet is extra damage like a condition.

If spec right, you don’t need the pet dmg to kill. if you equip “protect me” you essentially give yourself 2 extra health bars (laughing at DS necro its more than enough time to survive a burst and then burst back after their skills are on CD. Not to mention SoS to make you invulnerable for another 6 seconds. Perhaps they can lower the CD on SoS a bit to make it a more appealing to players.

The Ranger class has tonnes of nice tricks like this but for some strange reason everyone just wants to do dmg be it direct or condition and not thinking about these types of utilities.

If you can go toe to toe with a warrior and face tank 2 rounds of HB and kill his kitten with 90% of your HP left… you are doing something right.

I got a sigil of rage on one LB and a sigil of Ice on the other. Honestly, the 30% to inflict chill for 2 seconds is far more effective than the 3 seconds of quickness on a 45 second cooldown.

In PvE nothing gets close to you. In PvP it is a matter of life and death. LB is a super AoE CC weapon. Most of LB2 damage will miss if the opponent is moving too much…. but if they were chilled for even half the duration… that’s a nice 4k hit right there. not to mention pet dmg (bird for another 4k)

The sigil that gives quickness sounds ghood on paper. But in combat you cannot control the burst that you need i.e it being cast on either your auto, which makes you fire 3 shots before it ends or the last segment of LB2 or 5. Quickness is godly if its a controlled burst, not random.

You can pretty much build your ranger to not be pet dependent. Just don’t put anything into BM and focus entirely on damage and survival. It wouldn’t matter if it was dead or alive then so nothing to worry about.

However, the Ranger class IS better with a pet and learning how to manage one. Even just using the pet swap for 2 secs of quickness every 15 seconds is amazingly good (especially with LB)

Just imagine if the pet wasn’t there. Don’t spec for a build that requires the use of the pet. Problem solved.

Aridia.3042:

KensaiZen.3740:

5 rangers standing still and invisible inside SM. Suddenly SM flips. Cant sweep for something that’s perma invisible.

I don’t think it should work on man made objects. It would be pretty silly to be able to apply camo on yourself on carpet or concrete floors, lol. Plus it doesn’t work with the theme of the class.

I was thinking you could only use this skill if the ranger was standing on something natural, like grass or water, or beneath a tree. That way, it’s very limited sweep for keeps as there are very few areas in inner Lowlands or SM that has shrubs and grass.

My original intent for this was to be used for scouting and roaming and not so much ninja flipping.

Regardless of intent it will be abused by players to no end. this was probably why it was removed in the first place. I think instead of a full invis it should be transforms the Ranger into either some form of vegetation (lol) or the nearest mob type WITHOUT having the invader tag over his head.

That shouldn’t be too hard to implement as its no different then drinking a morphing tonic. To make it even easier just turn players into Rabbits. Those buggers are everywhere and in some random as hell places.

Very close to my Boon guard build except I use clerics armour and berserker trinkets to give it that bit of damage when it comes to killing people (74% crit dmg means mighty blow hits 3k+)

A build like yours is very good for zerg busting as the retaliation you can provide will make a zerg melt itself as your weather the storm. When fighting zergs I would recommend swapping out one of the shouts for WoR. Then its pretty much complete. You don’t need the higher dmg out put if you use the enemies own power against him…. is this a Tai chi build?!?!!?

Burning is a damage booster. Not to be used as a primary source of damage. Swords and staff are the best weapons for this as they proc burning very often. If traited to burn the area around you, the staff is a mega aoe weapon.

But by going deep into burning you aren’t actually getting much back for it. The extra damage is only viable in an AoE situation i.e against 5 or more mobs. If under this number it would not be more efficient then just mighty blow the crap out of everything.

A decent farming spec, but not that powerful. Rubbish in WvW.

Aren’t we supposed to get a 10% damage reduction in the next path? And which class is this that can burst a Guardian in 3-4 hits? I haven’t come across anything like this in WvW… well there was this one guy that hit like a truck.. Thief then I take it. But they are super glassy if they spec that way.

Spirits are pretty decent. People just don’t have a clue how to use them. If they are placed within 900 range of the enemy…. you are using them wrong.

Did you ever wonder why LB skills were multihit? Well now you know.

Increase dmg by 10%. Adds burning to each attack. For one minute!!!! That’s a lot of extra damage.

5 rangers standing still and invisible inside SM. Suddenly SM flips. Cant sweep for something that’s perma invisible.

1, if you jumped off a cliff. You wouldn’t be replying to my post

2, what buff? I was talking about waiting for the best time to send pet in and looking for the moment you need to call them back to avoid death.

3, cant hit hard? I came from playing a guardian. Rangers clearly out damage guardians easily and at range too! In melee with sword, the combined player and pet dmg is around 3k per critic. And it criteria pretty kitten often AND you can use quickness for short burst.

4, I can agree on this respect. It does feel clunky and not instant as it needs to be. Easily fixed though so hoping its in the works somewherr down the line.

5, my wolves tank dungeon bosses. When bosses do skills I get them the hell out and send them back in again. HotW boss is probably the easiest one. Want proof? I can make a video.

6, I am aware that the ranger needs some improvement. Here and there but some people go on like its the end of the world or that the ranger doesn’t play like a warrior.

Changes are most likely going to happen in line with Abets vision of the ranger. There will not be a class overhaul.

Move out of range? From a longbow at 1500 range? If somehow he does manage to survive being chased down by a ranger with SotH and swiftness carrying a longbow, the fact of the matter is, if you are smart yourself, you would gtfo of the area as SoS is on cool down.

Since he somehow managed to run half way across the map, he will spend 2 minutes trying to find you if you weren’t stupid enough to stay in the same area like a sitting duck.

GS skills are ideal for escaping or moving across map very fast. The block also blocks projectiles for the entire duration. Stun them if they get too close etc useit to create space so you can use what a ranger is really good at into play.

The enemy isn’t the only one that has to play smart.

No your right, its the animation that makes it run faster. That and the little jerk to the screen when the weapons change gives the illusion the character was changing speed.

Will find out in 20 minutes

Wanderer.5471:

KensaiZen.3740:

SoS when traited is a game winner. 6 whole seconds of invulnerability is just Win.

unfortunately it doesn’t give invulnerability, it only mitigates direct damage – going against classes which are condition specced it’s useless

If you equip a remove conditiion on crit for weapons it will solve those. That and you can still use TU which gives enough healing to negate any condition stacks.

Like I said, if you combine it with “protect me” you have 12 seconds to kill anyone at will. If you have stability and swiftness from elite. You cant be stopped for that whole duration.

Must be me then it looks like I run faster with a GS then when holding a LB. I will test it when I get home

You what just struct me… imagine the realism aspect of it. Would your pet if it was real jump off a cliff with you? doesn’t make sense.

Now in the non realism way. stow pet, jump, bring pet out. problem solved.

If in combat, pet swap on landing. if your pet is on a timer? then you haven’t been managing your pet properly.

I have yet to take my pet through fractals but I can tell you that it has been through just about every dungeon with a very high survival rate. Higher than most PuGs even.

Longbow Rangers can easily micromanage pets as they are standing well out of range to worry about agro. If you are within 900-1200 range, you are not playing it right. L2P.

If you are in the thick of melee or melee based Rangers. You shouldn’t be in melee long enough to warrant your pet being killed. Go in, hit hard, get out.

As stupid as the pet AI may be, you are supposed to manage your pet. If you use a glass pet (felines, birds) how can you expect them to live in a situation that a glass Ranger wouldn’t?

Common sense. My wolves have even tanked bosses (all be it with regen ticking on him as he does so. But that’s still a good 10 seconds of the boss not atking anyone else.

Really, it’s not that bad. It is a massive L2 kitten ue. Learn the class mechanics. Learn what synergies exist between skill/trait/weapon AND pet. It is a big learning curve but it can be done.

afaik rangers already have the innate speed increase when carrying a melee weapon which stacks with the signet.

Giving rangers another 10% is just OP when it comes to moving around in WvW. You dont even need a warhorn. Just a GS and spam GS3 whenever its off cooldown gets you wherever you want to go QUICK.

You must be joking right? Ranger signets are awesomely powerful.

As Lyndis points out the regen on SotW is a very good passive regen when traited. This also goes even better if you have lots of other regen skills or spec higher in healing (Clerics?)

SotH is a massive 25% speed boost. Add to this the rangers innate speed boost when carrying a melee weapon, they can get out of any sticky situation and survive (GS) or chase down any squishy targets and stick like glue (Sword)

SoS when traited is a game winner. 6 whole seconds of invulnerability is just Win. If you are worried about being CC’d and it being wasted, there is your elite that gives you 20s of swiftness AND stability AND more dmg. (the satisfaction of face tanking warriors doing HB and beating the crap out of them as they take more dmg is amazing)

The signet synergy to traits are really good. Only SoS has an active worth using. The other 2 are for passive. There is good synergy between skill+trait+weapon. You just have to look deep for it.

Now if its not painstakingly obvious to some people, the GS is a GTFO of danger weapon.

If you take the entire class into focus and not just the weapon you will see that Rangers have incredible ranged damage and relatively crappy melee. The GS is the weapon that allows you to run away from melee very effectively.

GS 4 blocks melee attacks and interrupts allowing for a hastey retreat with GS 3. Hell, GS 3 without auto target will get you out of any combat situation. Combined with extra speed for carrying a melee weapon, you are pretty much home free if you have condition removers to remove those pesky rooting skills. The Cooldowns are also very low for such an effective single target control weapon (block knockdown and stun plus evade every 3 swings)

You are also not looking at what you can do with this class in its entirety. Advanced kiting. Shoot from ranged inflict stupid amounts of damage. If they get close, run away. GS3 your escape mechanic right there. When enough distance is made, turn around and shoot. All this whilst your pet is chasing your enemy (hopefully you have picked the speed traits for your pet so then can run faster than your enemy as your enemy will be running in a straight line after you) Your pet will also be hitting them now and again chipping away at their HP if not actually crippling them and making them move slower.

Now here is the other aspect of the ranger melee which funnily enough I used last nit in WvW to face tank a warrior and totally destroy him. Signet of stone is a 6 second invurnerability. “Protect me” is a second health bar. so in total you have about 12 seconds of you not getting any damage what so ever. You also have an elite which gives you stability and swiftness for 20 seconds. To put it bluntly, you cant be hurt you cant be CC’d for at least 10 seconds. This is enough time to kill anyone, burst or not.

There are viable ways to play the class using what we are given. Numbers means nothing is other mechanics are not factored in.

I’ve tested using spirits in dungeons (not fractals) and it is easily a very good utility for theranger. This was also untraited!

With a combination of using the longbow with extended range and piercing arrow, the ranger turned into an arrow turret. The extended range (eagle eye) allowed all the skills the be used at a distance that mobs simply do not Agro. This results in the spirits not being at risk of dmg from any form of attack be it ranged or AoE.

The flaw is that it doesn’t become a very good group utility since half the party will be out of range of their buffs.

There are a few simple tweaks to make spirits more viable and that’s to increase their effect range to 1200 and to proc the boons every 5 seconds (unless they were designed for boss fights where it takes over 10 seconds to kill something)

Spirits are for area control. If you have been using them at 900 range and its not working for you. Its a L2 kitten ue.

BlueprintLFE.2358:

KensaiZen.3740:

Honestly, with having to micromanage the pet to make it affective. Having another set of passives is pretty kitten handy.

I think it is designed to accompany the pet system. Signets and spirits + pets = Win. In theory

I run a full signet build and 30 BM I do pretty well in dungeons. Pet wolf even tanks bosses though you have to call him back when you know boss is about to do a big hit etc.

Passive play isn’t fun for a lot of people. Some people want to be involved and active they don’t want to have half of their utility skills be passive skills, that’s boring and doesn’t make for interesting play to a lot of people. If you want boring passive play roll a 5 signet warrior, there is a reason people dump that leveling spec as Soon as possible, even though it is effective. Honestly the pet doesn’t take a high caliber of micro managing. At the most it’s 4 extra buttons, swapping for buffs, and recalling them when they get into danger. That is not really a high enough level of micro managing to warrant making half of the ranger skills passive lazy skills. Engineers and eles would talk with you about managing multiple items and skill sets, and engineers have 0 signets, eles have signets, but I can’t count on 1 hand the amount of eles I see using them.

Passive skills can be ok if they are a small selection for players to choose from, but when you make that selection half of a players options that’s when it becomes a problem, and extremely limited. This is why half of the rangers on the forum hate their utilities skills. You could slap on a brown bear and all signets/spirits (no kitten difference) and shortbow 1 things to death. Doesn’t mean it’s fun engaging gameplay that is good for the class or game.

Not an attack on you KensaiZen just saying in general.

Oh I understand your point

But then the same can be said in reverse. If you don’t want passive play and want to do high damage long range active play you can roll a longbow/rifle warrior. It does far more dmg, has range, much better survival.

You can still active play with rangers though tbh, Traps and a few other skills are ok for that (lightning relfex, QF etc) but from the overall look of the ranger, it seems to be more suited to a point control class. Static gameplay over a large area. Extremly strong within that zone (traps and spirits) and when the enemy is outside the zone they can shoot with range. Definitely not a WvW designed class (unless it was for defending sieges).

I know they said that you can play any class how you want to. But it is still confined within the parameters of class design.

You can still roll a 30/30/ build and be glass and do very good damage. Just very low survival IF you get hit There is space in the class to spec for outer range combat (hanging way back from the action and bombing with longbow shows that pierces and does high burst dmg)

I main as a Guardian and see the same thing on Guardian forums. People don’t see the full potential of the class because they want the class to be how they would design it.

Rangers can do with a damage boost to offset their low dmg to survival ratio for those that like to get in the thick of it (melee rangers) but the range game, rangers are pretty powerful. The key is the pets, they cripple and CC the enemy so you can land the big hits from 1200 range. Its all about combining Pet management which is actually a really good mechanic tbh I like it a lot. Simple but affective when you consider that it goes perfectly with Signets (for mobile rangers) or spirits (for static rangers unless traited)

This is what I am seeing in the rangers design. The class isn’t broken. People just don’t want to play within the confines of the class mechanics and scream developers blood because “they” dont want to manage a pet. They want to do massive damage with range and snipe people….. roll a warrior perhaps? love that kill shot