Guild Wars 2

You will want to balance this with Damage trinkets as your armour and runes give you tonnes of tankiness.

Honestly since Guardians hp sweet spot is around 15k anyway I suggest going full beserker on all your trinkets for very good damage. With the set up you have it will mean you will be doing a good deal of damage absorbtion you will just need better damage.

you don’t need to go OTT on toughness as the Guardian has innate damage mitigation mechanics in place to avoid major damage anyway.

Now heres a tip. If you wan’t to be a monster in point control/tanking 10+ mobs. You should trait for 30 honour as standard. Go with larger symbols and writ of the merciful as well as EM. Other traits are up to you but with this set up you have awesome amount of tankiness due to the regen and heals you constantly do. Also use a hammer as it will proc -33% damage reduction to add with your toughness which will allow you to tank incredible damage.

Now as you take the beserker trinkets it will mean all your crits do massive damage. Symbols Crit! the hammer swings crit AoE also. Anything within range will die VERY quickly.

Give it a try. Build a happy medium that suits you. I don’t think having high crit chance is worth it if your crits do low dmg.

Alarox.4590:

KensaiZen.3740:

snip

Okay, so what you’re saying is that with 3x Might you can get 3500 damage? When was that ever the conversation? Maybe you’re forgetting the part where you said this:

quote=1151549;KensaiZen.3740:]
Mighty blow when traited is on a 3.5 second timer and with the right gear does around 3.5k-5k (or even higher if you go glass cannon)

That’s with 3x Might and you’re barely hitting 3.5k, which I never claimed to be impossible. Actually, I’ve been sayiing you could easily reach 3220 damage without Might. What I’ve been saying is impossible is your claim of 3.5-5k with the stats you gave me, and even claiming that with going glass cannon it would be higher than 5k (your build is half glass cannon already as your trinkets are all berserkers). With those pictures you’re basically proving my point. [/quote]

You still dont get it. Not everything you hit has the same toughness or armour value. This is why i generalised the damage instead of doing exact figures. If i was silly enough to want exact figures i would end up with hundreds if not thousands of equations for every scenario.

And what stats did i give you? I didnt give any stats. I simply said i guardian can get that kind of damage.

Oh and half glass cannon? Do you know how stupid that sounds? So what does that make me? Just cannon right? Replacing knights gear with pow/tou/vit will still deal the same damage but at a lower frequency. My toughness is boosted by my runes and i use a hammer so i get -33% damage reduction on symbol. I can eadily go full glass cannon by using dmg runes or stat runes in my armour to get the damage up. It all is possible.

Who ever said guardians need to be either glass cannon or bunker? L2P

Sanctuary doesnt work against people who have stability on. They can walk right in and just smack you in the face lol

Alarox.4590:

KensaiZen.3740:

Beserker trinkets. Where did i say full beserker gear?

Well we will just have to wait and see.

Though tbh if you have a crit chance of 40% and 80% crit damage boost. Big hits are pretty standard

Is it me or do i feel that you guys have just been running in bunker builds?

My build uses only 15 Valor. I use Knight’s gear and damage based orbs/jewels.

By the way, we already explained this to you. I’ll humor you though.

The base critical multiplier is *1.5. I have 40% critical damage, so mine is *1.9. Yours is 80% critical damage, so it’s *2.3.

My base damage with 1925 Power averaged around 1400, so a crit is *1.9 for about 2660. Yours would be *2.3, so for 3220, which is far short of the 3500-5000 you claimed.

You understand?

Why would you try and figure it out using base damage? in a live situations you never will be hitting at base damage. There are many factors and modifiers that are added into the equation.

Anyway, here are some screens of going over 3.5k crit

http://postimage.org/image/ln17a2y3p/

http://postimage.org/image/oq525o9wj/

I missed the screen shot but check out the combat log

http://postimage.org/image/py862hckh/

This is a screen of hitting the warrior type mob for over 3k

http://postimage.org/image/os3j4cq3h/

Now the point to remember here is that a Guardian with EM and a decent amount of crit % can maintain 5 stacks of might easily if not more whilst in combat. The more enemies around him the more might he can stack.

Against a squishy target the damage will increase against heavy armour/high toughness it will decrease but it should still be within the range of 3.5k to 5k with 5 stacks of might if not more. To make it more broader to include the tougher types it will be 3k to 5k overall. I’ve hit just over 5k on upped players before using MB, it’s not a difficult thing to do.

Knights armour does not increase crit damage. It increases your chance to crit. The damage comes from going full berserker trinkets. You can still maintain a decent amount of damage even if you use a different type of armour that does not carry the precision from the knights gear.

You can make as many calculations as you like using base damage but without adding the modifiers for live situations you will never get an accurate outlook at what any class can do.

Amazing L2P

Beserker trinkets. Where did i say full beserker gear?

Well we will just have to wait and see.

Though tbh if you have a crit chance of 40% and 80% crit damage boost. Big hits are pretty standard

Is it me or do i feel that you guys have just been running in bunker builds?

Yaki.9563:

KensaiZen.3740:

with a mace and battle presence also with regen boons the healing is quite substantial

the mace does around 500hp every 3 seconds. Battle presence gives the passive affect of Virtue of resolve which heals for about 100+ per tick (depends on healing power) and hold the line gives a good amount of regen for the party. Not to mention Roll to heal.

Overall you get more healing in constantly than waiting for warriors to pop their shouts then wait for cooldown

You can still get these traits even spec for good damage.

You can trait battle presence (why would you?) and heal on dodge while going DPS, but the healing isn’t going to be much at all. If you’re going to use the mace then your damage is going to be crap. Guardians can heal well (in GW2 terms) but they can’t heal well and do decent DPS.

If you go for full berserker trinkets you will be outputting decent damage even if you have tanky armour on. Even when using the mace.

For extra damage use sigils to increase the damage with their traits.

As long as the mob/mobs are focused on you. The rolling heal and mace heal is decent enough support for your team mates since they wont be getting that much damage. The odd AoE might catch them or a stray mob but thats where the little heals come in handy.

“Mighty blow when traited is on a 3.5 second timer and with the right gear does AROUND 3.5k-5k (or even higher if you go glass cannon)”

There was no mention of what the target is. Like I said, I was generalising due to the different factors involved.

I’ll get you screen shots its the quickest way. Im not familiar with doing videos and stuff like that.

“Btw you’re better off getting a video so I can see your might stacks, gear, traits, enemy profession, upscale or not, and a video of their traits/gear.”

What does it matter? I said it can be done. I didn’t specify on what it can be done on. Are you going to factor those in and try to discredit me when I said it can be done and I wasn’t lying?

Well done you.

Alarox.4590:

KensaiZen.3740:

It’s almost like they wanted to design Guardian to mainly support with slight option to kittenage.

It is true they allow every class to do every roll in the game but some classes do some things better than others.

So ArenaNet’s design is “For anyone interested in Guardians: If you want to be a buff kitten or a tank play a Guardian with 0/0/30/20/20 a Hammer and Shouts. If you want to be effective at anything else, be a Warrior.”

I always thought their philosophy was thay any Profession can be built for support/survival/damage, but they all have different mechanisms, forms, and specific instances that situationally favor one Profession or the other. Not “this Profession is the best at X, play this other Profession if you want to do Y”.

Well if that were the case guardians would have access to extreme burst skills and actually have good mobility AND a ranged weapon that’s effective at 1200 range.

Guess it must be me and my imaginary world

I’ll get you a screen shot

on a side note. would you like to do the math in how he managed to get ZD to crit a warrior for 3.6k? that should pass the time while I get you a screen shot

It’s almost like they wanted to design Guardian to mainly support with slight option to kittenage.

It is true they allow every class to do every roll in the game but some classes do some things better than others.

I guess you know it alls missed the thread called Guardian DPS

This is Amins hitting with ZD on WARRIOR

https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/35725/gw466.jpg

Did you honestly think Guardians can’t get this kind of damage? you guys are amazing.

Also in the case of maths there are far more variables in increasing or decreasing the damage done thus I generalised the figure to get a rough idea.

If you’ve never crit someone for over 3k you have either gone and built a bunker and expected it to do high damage like an idiot. Or you just somehow have broken the game and the damage is fixed to exactly what you’ve calculated since somehow it hasn’t factored in might stacks or the toughness and armour of the enemy.

Your just that amazing

Yaki.9563:

KensaiZen.3740:

Yaki.9563:

So basically AH and EM need a nerf. AH for it’s ezmode automatic self-heals with no basis on the gear you’re wearing, and EM because it adds too much benefit to the group for just one trait. In that “versatility” you talk about I bet you never take off AH or EM.

Why would I need to handicap myself? to make people not running a AH+EM build feel better about themselves?

Versatility through Gear with static traits. Not complicated.

Right, what’s not broken about always using the same 2 OP traits in every build. Why bother having 5 trait lines.

The other trait lines are optional. Just like every other 5 trait lines in every other class.

Why would it be broken? its not like you get huge damage from these traits or get huge defence. These 2 trait lines is balanced so you can build on what you want with equipment.

There is such a thing as a happy medium for Guardians.

with a mace and battle presence also with regen boons the healing is quite substantial

the mace does around 500hp every 3 seconds. Battle presence gives the passive affect of Virtue of resolve which heals for about 100+ per tick (depends on healing power) and hold the line gives a good amount of regen for the party. Not to mention Roll to heal.

Overall you get more healing in constantly than waiting for warriors to pop their shouts then wait for cooldown

You can still get these traits even spec for good damage.

The Gear itself is very good. It allows you to be very tanky. What you need to focus on is what are you going to use with the gear? do you balance it with damage? or do you go full tank? etc etc

I find the soldiers Armour works well with any build for the guardian. Take your pick really. Just balance it with trinkets and runes to suit your style of play.

They have done a very good job with the Guardian. The class feels balanced and rounded and working as they outlined.

Alarox.4590:

vespers.1759:

they go down just as fast as any other class… wow 2 aegis’ block 2 attacks regardless of whether they hit for 2 dmg or 25,000 dmg.

*when a guard gets swarmed they go down. i think a lot of people tend to exaggerate on the forums. *

^

The Guardian’s survival comes from being able to take small amounts of damage over time and heal, or quickly block a few big hits. For example, the function of Toughness and Altrustic Healing is to take small damage over time, and the purpose of Aegis/Blind is to negate those few big attacks. That being said…

They are NOT damage sponges. If you get caught without your cooldowns (and don’t use them wisely when you have them), you will not be able to stand there and /dance without falling on your kitten

I agree we are not damage sponges. This is why we have Vigorous precision as an even better added form of survival. People who have a decent crit chance % have a dodge roll available every 5 seconds. Its very powerful.

Also heal on dodge makes it even better. If you can keep the agro from a boss, its easy for you to dance whilst your party is going pew pew.

Alarox.4590:

Heinel.6548:

I don’t think you know what you’re talking about.

I don’t think so either. Here’s why:

KensaiZen.3740

Mighty blow when traited is on a 3.5 second timer and with the right gear does around 3.5k-5k (or even higher if you go glass cannon) Minimum non crit would do 7k damage in 10 seconds with both crits thats 10k damage. Value will go up or down depending on armour type but never usually below 3k even on warriors.

I am full Knight’s with Valkyrie/Emerald Jewels/Orbs. I have 1925 Power, 40% Critical Damage, and an Exotic Hammer.

I just walked into a borderland and started attacking Fireflies in the SE supply camp. Here are my results (I waited till I had at least 5 numbers in both):

Non-crit:
1400
1471
1360
1293
1416
1286
1314
1394
1420

Crit:
2496
2718
2528
2622
2703

Average Non-Crit: 1373
Average Crit: 2613

“around 3.5k-5k (or even higher if you go glass cannon)”
“but never usually below 3k even on warriors.”

Orly? I’m eagerly awaiting your response. I hope numbers are involved, as you are indeed correct in mentioning how I like them.

KensaiZen.3740:

Since you love your numbers,

youor crit damage is only 40%. Mine is 80%, go figure.

Full Beserker trinkets and wearing knights armour. This is where the damage comes from. How do you expect to do high damage without spec for damage? you are amazing.

Alarox.4590:

KensaiZen.3740:

DPS = Damage Per Second

Condition damage = Damage Over Time

Damage/Second IS Damage/Time, because a Second is a unit of time.

All damage can be calculated in Damage/Second. It’s just easier to do it as Damage/Time (where Time = ‘X’ Seconds) for Conditions.

If my burning does 2000 damage over ten seconds (Damage/Time) that’s 200 DPS (Damage/Second).

I’m sure you actually knew what I meant. Dot damage is not comparable to burst damage if the mob does not live past 10 seconds. 2000 damage in 10 seconds is a bit pathetic tbh. Most classes can do 2000 damage in 2 seconds of auto attack.

Since you love your numbers, 2000/10 in a 10 second fight or 1000*10 in a 10 second fight. Condition damage is good for ignoring armour value and is very useful if the fight actually last a long time. If the fights are short, the damage doesn’t have a chance to build up.

25 stacks of bleed for 1 seconds doesn’t do much damage at all. However, getting 1 crit from mighty blow hurts quite a bit.

Bleed is about 59 per stack. Times this by 25 for maximum stacks and you get 1475 per second. 1475*5=7375. trouble is you have to take time to put on 25 stacks of bleed to begin with.

Mighty blow when traited is on a 3.5 second timer and with the right gear does around 3.5k-5k (or even higher if you go glass cannon) Minimum non crit would do 7k damage in 10 seconds with both crits thats 10k damage. Value will go up or down depending on armour type but never usually below 3k even on warriors.

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

I main a GS and 10/+ stacks is usually inconsistent. I can maintain about 5-7 consistently on the average. I’m not saying its impossible for me to get 10+, but when I do, it only lasts for 1 second before the timer runs out and thats usually only when I WW. Most of the time though, I don’t get 10 or more.

This is plain GS or with Superior sigil of strength and +boon duration runes?

Seren.6850:

yLoon I think your looking at this class wrong, or this game. If your the type who like to speed run dungeons then your digging your own grave. Other classes can output more dps than a guardian so in your mindset a guardian is of no use at all.

If you want to blow through cof in 7 mins just bring 4 warriors and a mesmer.

Just enjoy the game

This is where I have to disagree. Guardians have less burst than other classes but better sustained damage.

4k crit for MB once every 5 seconds is the equivalent of 8k every 10 seconds burst. All this whilst doing symbol damage and burning AND providing passive or active support during combat.

EM itself can increase the overall DPS of the group quite considerably. A consistent 10 stacks of might when attacked by multiple mobs or a sustained 5 stacks of might for single mobs. The combined extra damage is enough to take the dmg higher than taking a warrior instead.

Then I guess that person who wishes to waste the other 4 players time will just have to live with what comes afterwards.

I’m sure if you’ve done AC 100 times, your not trying to “enjoy” it by taking your time.

Of course you can’t stop people playing how they want to play. But when you go into a dungeon its about GROUP play. Not “Im gonna do this my way so there” play. How you choose to play will affect the gameplay for 4 other people. If it were a single player game then go ahead and do whatever you want. As this game involves others. Be considerate in how you want to play.

Guardians best support is done through front line combat. Like I mentioned the best weapon for healing is the mace. Utility heals and elites can still be used by staff or mace users but you will still get more SUPPORT from the mace then you would from the staff.

if it takes you 2 hrs to complete one path. The likeliness of the people repeating the dungeon with you is slim. Unless they are understanding and have an extra 1 1/2 hours to kill.

If they nerf AH EM synergy, they had better give us a bigger health pool. There is a reason why we have healing synergies.

Got to love these people who just like to cry nerf. Guardians arent even considered OP by other classes.

DPS = Damage Per Second

Condition damage = Damage Over Time

Yaki.9563:

So basically AH and EM need a nerf. AH for it’s ezmode automatic self-heals with no basis on the gear you’re wearing, and EM because it adds too much benefit to the group for just one trait. In that “versatility” you talk about I bet you never take off AH or EM.

Why would I need to handicap myself? to make people not running a AH+EM build feel better about themselves?

Versatility through Gear with static traits. Not complicated.

actually just tested this without the sigil or extra boon duration on a 1h sword. Its possible to maintain 5-8 stacks of might on a champion consistently. With boon duration and extra might from sigil it should be relatively easy to maintain 10 stacks of might.

I’m running 30 valour and 30 honour.

For hammer it would be possible only in aoe situation. I get this often enough when running dungeons. on a 1v1 its impossible as weapon speed is too slow.

GS should be able to make 10 stacks if not then at least a consistent 8 with going into double digits for aoeing.

Yaki.9563:

Indispensable implies that you can’t do it without them. That’s simply not true.

Using the term loosely

Yaki.9563:

haviz.1340:

Yaki.9563:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

If you have sigils of strength and Empowering Might, you can easily maintain 10+ stacks on yourself at any given time.

Maybe fighting 4 enemies at once, but not single target.

If you have pvt gear and 4% crit.

I’ve tested this nonsense with 60% might duration, 20% boon duration, 70%+ crit rate with 1h sword and even with all that you’re lucky to get 10-12 stacks. So no, some guy going 0/5/30/30/5 or with hammer (or even GS) is not getting 10 stacks single target.

Realistically though you wont be doing 1v1 most of the time. Depending how you play though I guess.

So if majority of players suck, then the OP is correct in saying Guardians are indispensable. People can suck at this game and still enjoy dungeons. It doesn’t force them into a “OMG you suck stop playing this game” mentality.

PUG’s. You can’t control their skill level. From what you’ve just said is that the group have to be “good” for the necro support to be effective. Why would this make the necro indispensable?

Also, Guardians can do all those things you’ve listed whilst maintaining DPS. Do necro still keep their DPS when they go for CC and support? Haven’t actually leveled a necro to 80 so just wondering.

Ok, so I have been getting some whispers in game asking me the exact details of the PvE side to this build.

Here goes.

http://postimage.org/image/h033c9p11/
With food (lemongrass poultry soup) you get 16,565hp

Like I mentioned, you can drop the superior sigil of blood and get a superior sigil of accuracy for an extra 5% crit chance

Power 1883
toughness 1618
Crit dmg 74%
Healing 320

Even though it does not have 3k armour, the Juggernaut is able to withstand much more damage due to its constant proc of -33% damage boon (protection) over a large area (large symbols). So even if you are taking damage you can still roll around and get healed as well as still get the protection boon.

The build itself is quite reliant on the food for controlling conditions but you can go without it if you don’t have any. Alternatively use the omnomberry pie to heal the damage done by conditions as you will be doing a lot of aoe crits from mighty blow and hammer chain.

This build has won 4v1 (2 lowers and 2 80’s) and today won a 3v1 (1 lower and 2 80’s) in WvW.

Guardians already do that.

The main stay of most Guardians is the 0/0/30/30/0 builds with AH+EM at its core. with these traits the guardians is free to go DPS or go Tank by using the traits from the valour and honour lines. You want more dps? take 2h mastery and aegis burning attacker. Want to go tank? take writ of the merciful and larger symbols etc

This generic build allows to change traits and skills on the fly. I carry around 3 armour sets and all types of weapons. I swap to DPS when I need to or go full tank when I need to in the same dungeon. Guardians are very versatile. You only limit yourself by what you carry.

As for people who spec for certain builds. They can’t be helped because of how those builds are not flexible at all. Also the gear required is also very one way.

Ruufio.1496:

I “tank” (And by tank I mean use everything I have to my advantage) better with my Necromancer in GREENS better than any Guardian I’ve ever seen. Guardians always think they are a “tank” which makes me roflmao while I stand still for 1 second and see them rush in only to lose 50% of their HP instantly, or some idiot tells me to “stop! let me pull!” with his 600 range scepter or some dumb kitten. Or, you know, I could pull with my actual pulling skill or my 1500 range staff.

I am usually carrying my team on my Necromancer… although I’ve only played with pubs so far. I don’t find Guardians necessary at all for dungeons. I wish more would play a Necromancer (skillfully) because the amount of support they provide is huge.

I have never met another player in the entire game who is smart enough to you know… drop a blind well before ressing so you don’t die? Or Shroud-res by pressing keys quickly. Or plague-ressing.

1. Necro have a higher hp pool and can take an initial burst better than a guardian. However, once the necro HP is used up. They will never get it back. Guardians can constantly regen and heal HP as they fight. Guardians make a 15k HP feel like 30k HP without much effort.

2. Sceptre has a range of 1200. Just by saying it has a range of 600 shows you obviously have never played a Guardian or have any real insight into guardians at all.

3. It may be true you’ve never needed a Guardian in your party to run a Dungeon. But then I am pretty sure you have never run a dungeon very quickly before.

4. “I have never met another player in the entire game who is smart enough to you know… drop a blind well before ressing so you don’t die? Or Shroud-res by pressing keys quickly. Or plague-ressing” tooting your own horn about being a smart necro…. I think your in the wrong forum section.

Really? 2 Guardians running AH+EM builds can literally keep the party might stack above 10 stacks. This alone increases the dps rate quite considerably. Especially since they don’t even have to spec for dps to get such benefits.

New record for my guild if not the server. AC all 3 paths in 66 minutes. this was possible because there were 2 guardians in the party. Any other time when there was one or none the speed time did not get close.

I’ve recently started using Sword as my main DPS weapon (as I use the Hammer for Aoe anyway so I don’t need a GS) and I do have to say that the groups and my own dps increases noticeably when I am attacking. In a defensive role, I can swap my armour for the pow/tough/vit set and use my hammer to tank and control a group of 8 or more mobs so that the squishies in my party are relatively safe to just pew pew from behind me.

No other class can do such things. Guardians are the easy mode of any dungeon.

Simply the reason being. Guardians eat dungeons. Was in a fractals last night with a pug group and kept wondering why they did things a certain way. Needless to say the party got wiped more thwn once and I had to fight off 4-5 mobs then res them. No other class is this solid and it would be quite less effective to not have one in party.

Funnily enough it is still very eady to go dps with a 0/0/30/30/0 build (10 to put where you like)

They key is your equipment. Mix and match your gear to get the right balance for you. I personaly run with berserker trinkets and jewels and balance this using 3 different sets of armour.

Even when running MF gear the dps is still very high. To increase dps switch to beserker and knights mix so that you are not too glassy. If your about to enter combat where you need more survival, switch to pow/tough/vit. Our dmg comes purely from weapons. Utilities can be used for situational services.

I do find it annoying but look on the bright side, they waste a dodge that they could have used to get out of WW or MB or some nasty combo you have lined up.

Classes that dont have insane vigor regen like we do will feel not having a dodge when needed very hard. Especially the squishy ones.

Turn off auto targeting. It will save you using WW or MB on the illusions. Train yourself to read the attack patterns of clones. Attack the one thats not a clone and just dodge when you see clones moving forward. Most of them are stationary.

Mesmers genrally dont last that long if you stick to them like glue. You could try sceptre as an alternative weapon.

Funnily enough we tested this out the other night in AC. We ran 3 hybrid Guardians 1 warrior and a mesmer on all 3 paths. We had absolutely no need for any major healing. Everything died so fast.

First run was done in 22 minutes path 1
Second run was done in 24 minutes path 2
Third run was done in 20 minutes path3

In PvE, it doesnt seem like you really need to go active support at all. Passive support was enough to blitz through relatively unscathed.

This includes destroying all gravling burrows before the timer had actually ran down for section completion.

Sokina, you show me there is hope for the human race

Im on FoW. Pretty low tiered enough. Bring the pain

I will be home from new years celebration tomorrow night. I would love to be one shotted by you

Lets see if a poot guy like me can beat someone runnibg around with 1000g lol

I will give it a go. But i wont wager 1000g. Who the hell has 1000g????

jkctmc.8754:

KensaiZen.3740:

jkctmc.8754:

I have 4 80s, Warrior, Guardian, Thief, and Ranger.

I’m sorry Guanglai, but a Guardian can’t even match my Rangers damage, let alone my Warriors damage, regardless how squishy you make yourself, in trade for damage. You just can’t.

My newish Warrior build isn’t a glass cannon build, and sports 3100 attack, 3200 armor, 65ish crit chance (full adrenaline), and only 10% crit damage. You couldn’t kill me my Warrior with your damage build, and I’d be doing a lot more to you, with 6k-7k Eviscerates, 11k-16k Kill shots, if you were not dead by the time I got full Adrenaline to begin with. Glass Canon Warriors, and Thieves are free kills for this build, and they more than double a damage Guardian build.

You keep saying the words; “you outlast”. The only way you’re going to survive, is run away. That is a far cry difference, than outlasting.

As for you saying a Guardian does more damage chasing, well, I don’t have to chase on my Warrior because my opponents are dead. I do on occasion with my Ranger, but chasing on a Ranger is really easy.

They’ve nerfed the Guardian so much, I play my Ranger more than my Guardian now.

6-7k eviscerate? 11-16k for kill shot? are you sure you have been shooting at a guardian? or are you just shouting off some damage that you’ve been doing to cloth classes lol

Mind you, this is WvW.

In full Beserker gear, I’ve hit 24k Killshots, and with Piercing, I’ve one shot as many as three people with it.

I know a Guardian when I see one.

I destroy Guardians with 3500 and higher Armor in less than 7 seconds, so a glass canon Guardian would pop like a zit. I really don’t think you understand the full damage potential of a Warrior, and/or Thief to even believe a Guardian can match their damage, or survive it for any length of time in WvW, if they don’t have over 2700 Armor.

Keep in mind a Warrior can trigger “On my Mark” 10 stacks of Vulnerability, which stacks with “Brutal Shot” 5 stacks of Vulnerability, which stacks with their trait; “Rending Strikes”, which can give Vulnerability on crits, and also stacks with the; Sigil of Frailty, which can also grant Vulnerability on crits.

I’ve had 18 or more stacks of Vulnerability on my target in a few seconds, right before I begin my burst. The damage is very noticable.

Which gets removed by a guardian with 1 skill. GG

It is possible but it is not ideal. Like the warrior can spec for range but it is not ideal. A front line support is by far more effective than a mid range support. What do you think is mid ranged? Between 600 to 900? If you have to constantly go into the under 600 range then you ate still being front line.

Of course you can still provide support byt how effective will your support be compared to someone who can provide much better support being frontline. The healing provided by a mace in constant flow is much higher than any sub burst skills. The hammer provides constant damage reduction and healing through symbol. Your ranged options barely scratch any kind of healing.

If your best healing and support weapons are melee. It makes perfect logical sense to choose a ranged option just because you can.

Im sure no one wants to be the kid that gets picked last in a team. Hell it could even mean you dont get picked for a team.

When you run the same dungeons 50 times a month you want to do it as quickly as possible. Who the hell would want to pick people who are sub par.

So let me guess… using a hammer means you have to be in the frontline swinging away to proc the symbol to heal as well as proc the sigil of water.

This is a front line support. You can only heal those near you unless you range around trying to heal people with healing breeze. MI is random as hell and on a huge cool down. Apart from the tome, healing breeze and sanctuary, you dont have good burst heal skills. Sorry but regen is laughable in all dungeons except for AC.

Basically, if your not getting stuck in. Your not doing much which reduces your combat effectiveness by a huge amount.

I recon if played right (and now just pew pew) rangers can be a very good class. They are pure CC that can change the course of a battle.

I have yet to make one but I think it will be my next alt. I’m sure they couldn’t have made a class that bad and not have buffed them somehow during all the patches.

You can’t hit what you can’t see that has just run from 0 to 1200 range in 2 seconds. I would understand if they were so slow they were still in viable melee/combat range while in stealth, but to give them super mobility while under stealth is just plain stupid.

I’d have to agree with Guanglai with this one. just testing base damage is pointless as it will only show how high that weapon hits but doesn’t show how effective it actually is in combat or say true potential.

Builds have to be factored in to get a realistic number based on damage potential rather than flat base damage.

You can have a sword that hits for 500 per hit and a stick that hits for 300 per hit but when factoring in with a build it changes to sword 600 and stick 700. So the stick will have higher DPS numbers.

However, if you factored in a scenario like this then you would also have to factor in the enemy moving or being in range to be hit and many other variables which will contribute to the overall damage range.

In essence, you are both right. But when thinking about situational damage Guangli is right.

So when you look at it subjectively, in a dungeon. Will you really be contributing more by going DPS or by playing hybrid, or playing support?

Hybrid wins. Thank you.

FourTwenty.4268:

KensaiZen.3740:

Actually, you don’t have a 3 second window. The thief is perma invisible due to culling. That or using the move where they Phase out and can’t be hit. That or your already dead.

Which magical 3 second window is this?

everyone agrees culling needs to be fixed. no thief is denying this

Which is why the class is broken. Activating a skill that allows you to have extra stealth intended or not is a broken mechanic.

Being able to outrun every class while stealthed is a broken mechanic.

Being able to do pretty much insta kill on clothes and insane damage to heavies and get a garaunteed get out of jail free class is a broken mechanic.

I understand how thieves should be played and that they need their stealth. But to be able to stealth through out an entire fight is a rubbish mechanic. You have dodges and phasing and teleportations/shadow step as evasion tactics. To add stealth in there is just taking the biscuit.

I think stealth should just be on a much longer cool down. At least this way the thief get their chance to do the assassination style they love to do but the draw back is they have to do it in a certain amount of time without a get out of jail free card. If they fail they can still GTFO of dodge quicker then any class in the game.

Exactly for Sanctuary and purging flames.

In meditation there is Merciful intervention (which heals for less and still have a really long cooldown) Monks focus makers meditations heal YOURSELF, thus making not a healer.

What other useful skills are there for HEAL OTHER? that is a decent heal to use when hanging back and healing.

Healing through symbols does not go into this as you have to be swinging away with a hammer to activate that one thus the whole point of healing through combat. Mace symbol is decent but realistically would you be standing at the back with a mace just spamming symbols? no.

If you can show me a viable build that heals OTHERS for a considerable amount that makes it viable for dungeon play and WvW. Perhaps you will convince me.

Archonis.7249:

Rabib.6580:

I just seen thief take down a group of 4 people, first person is down on the first attack, he restealths, the chase is on, cast random ae’s, no luck. Stomps the downed person from stealth (great idea, stomping from stealth). 3 on 1 now, rinse and repeat 3 more times. I counted 6 attacks to my 1, he hit me 6 times from stealth, i got off ONE (1) attack before I was dead. I don’t care if we all suck as players, 1 should never beat 4. Just another reason that WvW is dying, just send 1-2 thieves to the spawn points, and gank people all day long. Ya a really balanced class.

Or you could learn to kittening dodge and CC the Thief and end his shenanigans. You have a 3 sec window to stun, root, or daze him. Then if 3 people can’t burst him down in that time. Just Alt+F4 and Uninstall because this game is too hard for you. Stick to board games, I heard that Axis and Allies is pretty cool.

Actually, you don’t have a 3 second window. The thief is perma invisible due to culling. That or using the move where they Phase out and can’t be hit. That or your already dead.

Which magical 3 second window is this?

Vitu.3580:

KensaiZen.3740:

Ok to clarify for people who obviously can’t read. Or jump to conclusions without actually reading the post.

I am not against healing. I am highlighting that as a guardian you are a front line support. I even outlined that the best healing weapon you have is a mace.

Guardians heal while fighting. They don’t hang back and try to use symbols and staff 2 for healing.

Now why don’t Pro Guardian players that want people to play how they want to play (even if it means they become alienated by their guild for being crap at what they do) tell us how they heal effectively without attacking at the same time?

Play how you want to play. That is a choice anyone has. Being picked for a party because you are good at what you do. That’s a choice you don’t have. L2P. Thank you.

Well, your title is very misleading then. To say that the class that has the most healing output is not a healer is just ridiculous.

The class may have the most healing output to SELF. But it does not have the most healing output for party.

You do not play a guardian like you would a Monk in GW1. You would not play a Guardian like a healer in WoW.

This is why we have such a low health pool to balance it

If you even try to go full healing for party by taking consecration skills you would cripple yourself and your party because the cooldowns are insanely long.