Guild Wars 2

ebrown.8193:

Kerithlan.1659:

http://www.arena.net/blog/mike-obrien-on-microtransactions-in-guild-wars-2#more-7677

This, I love how people complain first, ask questions later. It’s like Jeb Bush’s Florida all up in hurr.

Interesting article:

If a player buys gold from another player, he gets the gold he wants, the selling player gets gems she can use for microtransactions, and ArenaNet generates revenue from the sale of gems that we can use to keep supporting and updating the game. Everyone wins.

I wonder why they decided to get rid of that option. Maybe they figured they’d make less revenue from gems?

That IS the current system.

I buy 100 gems from ArenaNet. I need gold for whatever irrelevant reason. I place my 100 gems up for sale, and in return obtain gold when another player buys them.

Not quite sure where the disconnect is at here.

Kazak.8459:

Drarnor, I use staff as well and totally agree, the cast time makes that an almost a junk skill.

It’s decent in PvE or WvW when you can see the enemies charging at you in huge packs and can predict it, but it’s otherwise clunky. It’s the only skill I don’t use when I’m using a staff. It takes too long to cast and doesn’t last long enough for what it does (stop movement in an area the size of a doorway).

The only time I use it during combat is in PvE when someone’s being revived. Not exactly useful for anything else.

Kasei.8726:

I think players should be able to either use stability to escape, or dodging to escape, but not both.

The dodging thing could be an issue with the ward being relatively thin on odd terrain. There are very few places that are completely flat, so unless it also happens on flat terrain as well it might just be a bug/unintended glitch.

Most likely it’s an oversight or an intended feature of dodge mechanics, but it’s at least worth mentioning potential terrain issues.

Ynna.8769:

I’m not sure you completely understand it. You can cast Judge’s Intervention while casting Ring of Warding, so you teleport to the enemy and they instantly have the wall around them.

I admit that I didn’t think of that (although it makes sense since JI is essentially a free action). Having said that, immobilization and rooting are still the only ways to guarantee that the opponent stands in one place while casting it. If you teleport to someone immediately when they’re about to dodge (as a super unreasonable example) you’ll miss.

Loco.4561:

Out of all the “issues” that apparently face Elementalists, you choose the biggest non issue ever in the history of non issues to discuss. Seriously how much time did you waste on this? Not once when I have levelled any profession have I ever, ever been concerned about how long it was taking to unlock those abilities.

If you spend this much time worrying about such a pointless aspect of the class, I only shudder to think what you might come up with in regards to Elementalists over all. Probably an analysis of how Dragon’s Tooth doesn’t fall correctly.

Oh and if a player is taking until level 20 to unlock all the weapon abilities, well then I’d suggest computer games aren’t for them lol.

tl;dr
“Hey I didn’t read the opening post. Also, I am awesome and you are a terrible player.”

Very constructive. Apparently I hit a nerve with people. Kudos to me. I already moved on so like, keep posting or whatever, but I won’t be checking this topic. My work’s done.

kitanas.3596:

/sigh

we already control the gem->gold rate.

/thread

http://www.arena.net/blog/mike-obrien-on-microtransactions-in-guild-wars-2#more-7677

This, I love how people complain first, ask questions later. It’s like Jeb Bush’s Florida all up in hurr.

Kazak.8459:

Doesn’t Signed of Wrath has 2s cast or something?

3/4 second cast, 30 second cooldown (reduced to 24s if you’re using a signet build).

Kazak.8459:

What bothers me is the skill mechanics. Why put something in for one class and give the rest of the classes a total escape. Even another guardian somehow escaped from it lol

Just a tip, push #5 and then immediately use Judge’s Intervention to lock them down…. though most of them just run off from it lol. Anyways, glad I am not the only one on this.

JI isn’t a root, just a teleport and burn. You have to stand still and channel to create it, so most players will see you doing this and dodge roll out. If you want a guaranteed way to hit them with it, bring along Signet of Wrath or something and Immobilize them.

Guardians have access to Stability. Stability is a counter. That’s not surprising.

Here’s the thing though: blaming it on hacks is the easy/lazy way out.

Every time someone is having a bad time against another player, it’s always “wah wah they’re cheating/hacking!” when the other guy almost always is not. As has already been stated, stability is one example of a counter to the hammer ring (and a relatively common one at that).

It’s more likely that you’re up against smart players that understand how to get out of the skill than it is that they’re cheating. The fact that it feels almost useless highlights a problem with the skill, not with other people. It’s too easy for people to avoid and doesn’t do anything else of use, so perhaps it needs tweaking.

Or perhaps its use is in zone control and forcing your opponent to utilize skills or resources they would otherwise use to cleanse a root. Perhaps it doesn’t need tweaking.

Sylvari are described, from a design concept, as the Pale Tree’s fruit. They fit into the Pale Tree in this way, regardless of any other shortcomings (such as sylvari not being known to become more trees).

I understand that this is a spartan and unimaginative comment, but it’s really what we have to work with. For whatever unknown (and currently irrelevant) reason or reasons plural, the sylvari are sentient fruit.

Spirit of Otter
Spirit of Eel
Spirit of Walrus

Siv Thunderstock
Siv Eagleblast
Siv Geargrinder
Siv Wrenchstorm
Siv Powderpaw (snow leopard would give this one a double meaning)

Ulviden.3187:

Isaac.6041:

Guardians are for Humans.

Says the Norn Thief…

You’re not the first person to bring up the idea that a norn thief is somehow wrong or out of place. They’re not. In fact if Raven and (now-gone) Owl teach the norn anything it’s discretion and the cunning selection of battles.

The norn aren’t klingons guys, they’re norn. Honor and glory are important to them yes, but those aren’t the only ways to grow your legend. Some norn enjoy stalking their prey or luring them into traps more than they do running at them screaming.

“You cant just go and take the karma rewards out of the low level zones, "

Yeah except I wasn’t talking about that in the slightest, not even remotely. It’s cool if you want to snap at me though.

I was commenting on the idea of chests and loot rewards aka a physical reward for your trouble, you know, because it’s what was brought up in this topic’s opening post.

Personally I’d rather be rewarded raw chunks of crafting materials for low-level group events. The requirements for some crafts (such as Armorsmithing) are so high that unless you dedicate yourself to acquiring the necessary ores entirely, you won’t be wearing things you’ve crafted by yourself at the appropriate level. You’re always behind.

Throwing 10 copper ore at us for defeating the Troll in Queensdale, for example, would be delicious and motivating. I like the crafting system but don’t like how demanding it is before you’re above level 60 (I feel it is almost unnecessarily so).

Thanks for the correction — I got them mixed up I suppose.

With all due respect, I wouldn’t be better off. This isn’t my first elementalist — I was doing an intentional experiment to figure out how long it would take someone to do that. Data isn’t a bad thing, and neither is perspective.

When the class description is “you get to swap elements!” and playing the class translates into “you get to swap elements — but only after you spend several hours of game time smacking centaurs/dredge/ghosts/spiders!” then something’s wrong. I really don’t see how a new player is going to benefit from not swapping weapon combinations often while leveling up, out of fear of having no skills to use.

It’s cute until about level 9 when you’re already several hours into the game. By that point I’m pretty sure the majority of new players have grasped the basic concepts of their profession’s quirks and are ready to start experimenting. Stunting early experimentation makes for bad long-term players, even in a super casual sense.

mjharrison.3209:

….

Um… all of those spells are AOE except for stoning. If the spells affects an area, it is by definition an area of effect spell. I don’t see how this isn’t clear.

….

So you basically agree with me anyway?

Why must I be in disagreement with you in order to comment on something that you’ve posted? The world isn’t black and white.

Water Blast (for example) doesn’t always cause AoE. The AoE is conditional. Personally? Rationally? Realistically? If it has a conditional modifier that doesn’t always make it act as an AoE ability, then it isn’t always an AoE ability. It’s a single-target ability that sometimes functions in an AoE capacity. If there are no allies nearby, it isn’t healing air — it doesn’t heal. This differs from a skill like Fire Blast which will function identically regardless of how many foes or allies are near you.

Your topic is discussing 1 vs 1 options for the staff (your own words). Therefore for the context of your own topic, Water Blast is not an AoE skill. I don’t see how it isn’t clear. I admit that I was incorrect regarding Shockwave. However, I don’t believe overbloating an argument with stretch data helps.

I love that the elementalist has so many options due to attunement flipping, but what I don’t love is starting new elementalist characters. Compared to other professions, we have to unlock way more weapon skills.

Let’s compare the elementalist to the warrior.

The warrior has 40 weapon skills to unlock. 32 of those are terrestrial skills, and you’re guaranteed to unlock one in the tutorial. That means we can whittle the terrestrial warrior weapon skill list to 31 unlocks.

The elementalist on the other hand has 64 weapon skills to unlock. 48 of those are terrestrial skills, and you’re likely to unlock one in the tutorial. That means we can whittle the terrestrial elementalist weapon skill list to 47 unlocks.

I haven’t actually sat down to count out kills but I believe it takes ~40 kills to fully unlock a weapon. The second slot takes ~3, the third ~5, the fourth ~12 and the fifth ~20. For the sake of comparison I’ll be using these numbers for this topic, so keep in mind that I am aware that they may not be accurate.

Let’s assume that each kill takes on average 14 seconds, including travel time, any time spent dodging or healing, etc. This number may not be accurate, but for the sake of a sterile model it is what I’ll be using in this topic.

The warrior must unlock 31 terrestrial weapon skills. Each terrestrial weapon requires the following number of kills to complete:

At our static average of 14 seconds per kill, it will take our warrior 4,816 seconds to grind out her skills. That’s 80 minutes of time spent only grinding skills.

Now let’s look at the Elementalist, who must unlock more skills with less weapons. The elementalist must unlock 47 terrestrial weapon skills. Each weapon requires the following number of kills to complete:

At our static average of 14 seconds per kill, it will take our elementalist 6,720 seconds to unlock his terrestrial weapon skills. That’s 112 minutes of only grinding out weapons — 32 more than the warrior. While it’s less expensive/time consuming to get his hands on his weapons, the elementalist is still limited by his level-based attunement locks (Air at 3, Earth at 6). He simply will not unlock all of his skills before level 6, which is a luxury the warrior has.

My suggestion is to reduce the number of kills the elementalist requires for skill unlocks by 25%. This will mean the elementalist will still need the most kills (at 360) but will be much closer to the second-highest skill profession (warrior at 344). The other option would be to make unlocking slot 2 in any given attunement unlock that slot for all attunements on the weapon, and to meanwhile triple the kill requirements per skill. That method would change the required kills to 360 too, which again is in the same ballpark.

I specifically chose the warrior as the example profession because the warrior likewise has a very rough time unlocking everything. For the elementalist to (in practice) take almost twice as long to set up is a joke. The warrior is only really required to pick a main/offhand and a ranged option. Once she does that she can forge ahead with them for the entire rest of the game. Elementalists are required to learn how to utilize attunement swapping, which is twice as many skills once a weapon set is chosen. I should be ready to go with a new character within an hour. Otherwise I’m not learning anything.

I created a new elementalist a few days ago and spent (no exaggeration) four hours grinding the little drakes outside of Astorea almost non-stop just to unlock my skills. During this grind I obtained at least one of each of my weapons via drops, reached level 6 (using an exp booster), and did the “stop the termites from eating the tree” event three times. That isn’t fun. It’s also the opposite of what Guild Wars 2 and ArenaNet are supposed to be about.

The reason I sat there grinding my skills rather than playing through the game and questing is exactly because I knew how many elementalist skills there are and how long it would take. If I had not sat around grinding I wouldn’t unlock my skills until long past level 20. The challenge of the elementalist is in learning the attunement system and swapping tactically. In order to do that, the player needs to have access to all of her skills much sooner.

I’m not able to test out or choose a weapon set if I have to grind out hours and hours worth of skills. It’s counter-intuitive and counter-productive. I (begrudgingly) did it, but I felt it necessary to voice some concerns for the sake of other players.

While I understand your frustration I feel as though you’ve artificially inflated the problem for the sake of your argument.

Rather than running down the list of every skill I just want to point out that there’s no reason why 3/5 fire skills, 3/5 water skills, 4/5 air skills and 2/5 earth skills aren’t viable as single-target abilities.

You’re also disingenuous about the number of single-target skills the staff has. It has five, in fact: Fireball, Water Blast, Lightning Surge, Stoning and Shockwave. Each of these skills targets a single foe, damages it, and in the case of the non-earth skills provides a bonus after-effect. Fireball dealing splash damage doesn’t make it any less of a single-target ability: it makes it a single target ability with conditional splash.

Having said that, elementalist overall is a bit “soft” so to speak. Even if the staff is tweaked it doesn’t highlight some of the underlying problems, such as how difficult soloing is compared to other professions.

If the staff absolutely must be changed (and nothing else), here are my suggestions:

1. Chain Lightning should deal much more damage than it currently does, but to compensate have the damage split evenly across its targets. For some fake example numbers, let’s say that it deals 600 damage to a single target. If there’s two targets have it deal 300 to each, and if there’s three have it deal 200 damage to each.

2. Lightning Surge should stun your target for either 0.5 or 1.0 seconds as well as blinding it. Nearby foes should be blinded for a shorter duration.

3. Gust should cause additional damage or knockback if it only hits a single opponent.

4. Stoning should cause a minor knockback or interrupt if the target is crippled or immobilized. The projectile should move faster.

5. Unsteady Ground should interrupt/trip if the opponent is weakened or immobilized.

These changes would make the elementalist a bit more viable in terms of dueling and single-target control without horribly destroying their multi-target potential (or even really changing how the current state of things operates). Earth is overall fairly weak compared to Fire and Air (since 1 is kind of bad, 3 is a shield and 2/4 can be unreliable/slow), so we can create a fair balance by improving its inter-skill synergies and kiting. Specifically though the focus would be on making Air a bit stronger against single targets.

Ludovicus.7980:

Yes, something’s lurking in the mists…

Not to be a spoil sport or anything, but something is always lurking in the mists. It’s the mists’ modus operandi to have weird lurky things.

In the mists, having hugely horrible creatures born out of nothing try to escape into Tyria is what we call the status quo. Re: creatures forming out of nothing, see Razah.

Remember that not all magic-like effects are bloodstone magic. Some of it is spirit energy, some of it is divine intervention, and some of it is good old fashioned technology and elbow grease.

For example, a norn becoming Bear isn’t necessarily magical in the bloodstone sense. The bloodstones limit only the magic gifted to the mortal races by Abaddon.

Kite.2510:

Hazeheart.7510:

The one and only thing, that crushes this (surely somehow logical) theory is, that if you choose the Sylvari-biography-option “Where life goes, so you should too…”, you’ll meet a Sylvari from a different pale tree, without ANY kind of dream, either a good one like the one because of Ventaris tablet, or a bad one.

But the convinience that he has no memmory means that we can’t tell if he is good or evil, and we never see his tree, but we do see how currius Caithe is to see how the Sylvari unafected by the tablet might have turend out to be, so this also Hints that they Do feel that their purpose might have been diferent if it wasn’t for the tablet.

So the theory remains that the Pale Tree might still be an Elder Dragon Champion.

I was with you until the very last sentence. It appears to be a non-sequitur.

“Caithe is curious to meet/study another sylvari civilization/tribe that lacks Ventari’s influence and is unknown to the Nightmare Court. PALE TREE IS A DRAGON.”

That’s some messed up brainwash mojo right there.

That’s correct, if I recall that’s the tomb of Saul D’Alessio.

The White Mantle exists primarily as a shadow army. They’re like the Order of Whispers now, except with way more narrow a focus. All of the Mantle that we’ve encountered so far seem to be integrated all across Kryta, from bandits to hunters to citizens of Divinity’s Reach. In my personal story I’ve only encountered a single open battle involving large numbers of Mantle, and probably less than 200 total.

They exist, but they’re definitely the minority and definitely the underground.

The dagger and scepter offer both of those, to an extent. Different elements have different ranges on their attacks. Using the same element all of the time isn’t practical (even if you have a preferred one like I do) — you have to use them all as needed.

Try playing around with your non-staff item combos and finding something that works for your needs. Keep a staff around for when you’re in huge groups (makes dropping back to support with Water much easier), but otherwise figure out which mainhand and offhand you prefer and stick to your guns.

There’s only four combinations so it won’t take you too long to feel them out.

It’s an interesting idea, sure, but it’s not supported by the facts. Sure we know that a dragon’s champion might break away and go rogue thanks to Glint, but also remember that Glint was thousands and thousands of years old. It’s more likely that Glint was corrupted the last time Kralkatorrik was awake (and found herself suddenly free when he went back to sleep) than it is that she just up and decided to turn coat on a whim.

The Pale Tree has only been around for approximately 250 years (plus additional time for when she was still a seed, which can range from 0 additional years to the beginning of time). Since I don’t believe the seed could have existed for longer than 50 years (due to the nature of the Maguuma), that’s only 300 or so years for the Pale Tree to come into existence, begin growing, gain sentience, develop her crop and bring sylvari into the world. Compared to Glint that simply isn’t enough time for her to reach an equal stage.

We know that Glint had been helping the races of Tyria since at least 272 AE (current year is 1325 AE) through the Flameseeker Prophecies and random advice when people could find her (or when she found them). That’s a full thousand years we’re talking about. The Pale Tree has existed for a quarter of that time. Frankly I don’t believe it’s rational to believe that champions can just up and leave on the basis that Glint did, because as I stated Glint is absolutely the exception to many rules. She’s unique.

The dragon you face in the tutorial is called Shadow of the Dragon. It’s not necessarily representative of any specific dragon; however, it’s stated that it is comprised of the Nightmare. If the Nightmare is attempting to claim the Dream then it is logical to believe that it would manifest itself in whatever way possible in order to enter and control it. As there’s little to no evidence of non-plant creatures existing within the Dream (visions of other things appear, but they’re non-interactive and intangible), I find it much more like for the Shadow of the Dragon to be plant-like in appearance out of necessity rather than out of choice.

(Edit: and even more simply, the Shadow of the Dragon might have been nothing more than what it literally sounds like, considering it’s your Wyld Hunt.)

Elementals also are born fully grown and ready to serve. The sylvari life cycle and birth are mere coincidence. They have just as much in common with Destroyers as they do with Elementals and even Grubs. I find their magical origins to be similar, not some connection to the Elder Dragons.

There is plenty of concrete evidence, but none of it to support the theory that the Pale Tree is a champion. For example, we know for certain that the Nightmare can corrupt non-plant creatures (see: spiders). We know for certain that the Nightmare seeks to expand itself and to spread. We know for certain that Nightmare Courtiers speak in similar terms to other dragon minions (compare the way icebrood and risen champions try to lure you into joining them and accepting their version of freedom to the way in which the Nightmare Court interacts with players).

A great temporary solution that you have direct control over is choosing to do your daily achievements in the starter zones.

This allows you to help out new players, meet people in a casual environment, build server unity, recruit for your guild, and overall have a nice experience.

You get the same daily reward regardless of where you do it. Why not do it in the starter zones?

So then for a short recap of my theory:
1. The Nightmare Court are the minions of a still-sleeping dragon
2. This dragon is slowly gaining strength, allowing the Nightmare to spread to more creatures
3. The sylvari are being corrupted because they’re mentally weaker than the other races; they don’t quite know their place in the world yet
4. The dragon is located in the Maguuma Jungle and will awaken during the course of Guild Wars 2’s lifetime
5. Faolain is the Nightmare Dragon’s first champion (it is unknown how she was originally corrupted, only that she was)

I think that this theory makes more sense than the Pale Tree somehow being a liberated dragon champion or something. Anyway the floor’s open, my huge wall of text is over, feel free to tell me why I’m wrong or why I’m right.

At the same time, this behavior does line up very closely with the Nightmare Court. We know that once a creature falls to the Nightmare, it’s lost to it (supposedly) forever. It retains a fraction of its former self, but it is corrupted and changed nonetheless. If any sylvari are dragon minions, it’s the Nightmare Court (which have already been shown to be corrupted in some way).

This would throw a fork directly into the existing theory (as we now have dragon-corrupted sylvari), but to be honest I feel as though this is the more reasonable conclusion of the two. We know that more than just sylvari can be turned to the Nightmare, but in particular it’s interesting to point out that there are Nightmare Spiders among their ranks. The Nightmare Spiders aren’t Tree-born either, they’re normal jungle spiders and cave spiders that have been beaten into the Nightmare by Courtiers. This contradicts the idea that the Pale Tree is a dragon champion as well, as the Pale Tree opposes the Nightmare Court and apparently lacks the capability or initiative to create her own sylvan spiders.

In addition to the spiders, the Nightmare has corrupted both plants and water in certain areas, and has allowed for Zhaitan’s minions to move freely through its territory. I’m not suggesting that the dragons have an alliance, but rather that the jungle dragon is currently unable to do anything about the undead if it wanted to, and that it might actually benefit the dragon to have a few undead shambling around. Irregardless of this, it has yet to be shown that the Pale Tree or the sylvari can corrupt other plants. They’re capable of manipulating them with magic, but so is every race that uses magic. They don’t actually do anything that the Maguuma doesn’t already do by itself.

My theory is that the sylvari can be and are being corrupted. This is what the Nightmare Court is: dragon corruption. The fact that they’ve moved on to sylvan hounds and spiders and have had success is in like with other forms of forced conscription to a dragon’s army. The Pale Tree’s sylvari are being targeted because the dragon knows where she is; the Other Tree is safe — for now — because the Nightmare Court hasn’t found it yet.

I therefore present for consideration the idea that a dragon is still asleep within the Maguuma, and that the Maguuma Jungle’s notoriously magical properties are due in part to the dragon’s presence. The Nightmare is how the dragon corrupts other things, and it’s currently only capable of corrupting things with weak minds. This is backed up by Nightmare Courtiers needing to beat their captives into the Nightmare, as well as the lack of other sentient targets beyond the naive sylvari.

I think that we’re going to start seeing more and more Nightmare creatures popping up as time goes on and as the sleeping dragon moves closer to its awakening. We know from the other dragons’ awakenings that as they move closer to waking up, their power starts to grow and increase. I believe that the sleeping jungle dragon can’t corrupt stronger creatures without having the Nightmare Court beat on them first because the dragon hasn’t regained enough strength yet. By the time it awakens I expect it to be just as potent in its corruptions as Jormag.

Based off of the in-game evidence and the lore in the books, it’s reasonable to believe that Faolain is one of this still-sleeping dragon’s champions. We know from Glint, Svanir, and The Great Destroyer that it’s possible for champions to exist and/or be created long before their dragon masters awaken, and I believe that Faolain/Caithe have a story similar to Svanir/Jora.

If the sylvari need a reason for their existence beyond “because the Maguuma is craycray” then they might exist along the same lines as the dwarves. The dwarves were, in their legends, created by The Great Dwarf in order to oppose The Great Destroyer, and their destiny was to defeat him (they did, at the cost of their existence). The sylvari (who aren’t shy when it comes to theorizing that they exist to oppose the dragons) may follow a similar path, and I wouldn’t be at all surprised if they did. In fact, the non-legend concept of The Great Dwarf is at its core very similar to the sylvaris’ Dream: a collective consciousness moving toward a shared cause.

4.
The Pale Tree does not transform other creatures in order to create sylvari: this point isn’t debatable. However, I don’t believe she necessarily chose the humanoid shape of the sylvari based off of her association with Ronan and his family. If she had done so, then why wouldn’t there be centaur-like sylvari as well (for Ventari), or evidence of any other sylvari beyond fern hounds and humanoids (such as any insects that may be living in the dirt)? Additionally, how likely is it that the Other Tree was buried on top of a family of dead humans? Even if Ronan did bury his family with a family pet, it doesn’t explain why the Other Tree has created at least one humanoid sylvari independently of the Pale Tree.

Instead, I believe that the humanoid sylvari is the way things just happened to pan out. It’s not just the humans that have two limbs and a head: the majority of Tyria’s intelligent races do. Besides just the humans, the Maguuma has been inhabited by tengu, trolls, ettins, ogres, giants, mursaat, asura, thorn stalkers (from GW1), and a whole mess of other similarly shaped creatures. If the thorn stalkers in particular are evidence, then I believe that the sylvari are just the most recent in a long-line of Maguuma-born plants to imitate their animal-based humanoid peers. It’s not as though magical or animate plants are even slightly rare in Tyria, but especially not in the rapidly-evolving Maguuma.

5.
Personally I don’t really care when the sylvari appeared. I don’t believe it’s anything more than coincidence, or alternatively the world’s natural reaction/defenses kicking in to counter the dragons (who would otherwise destroy it). It could even just be the Maguuma’s natural reaction in particular, as it’s a hotbed for magical activity. The sylvari appearing when they did has no particular relevance, especially when you take into account the Pale Tree’s planting and growth taking place before Ronan could reasonably know about the dragons entirely. Coincidence doesn’t mean anything other than a tree was planted and much later it matured and bore fruit.

The sylvari aren’t the first race to flood into the world rapidly; sure it’s probably more rapid than the charr or the humans, but to a race like the forgotten it’s probably nothing new or special. The timing isn’t very interesting beyond establishing the sylvari as the newest and youngest sentient race in Tyria.

So now that you know why I don’t believe in the SDT, and hopefully now that I’ve shown why it’s interesting but unrealistic, let’s move on to my theory.

We know a few things about the Nightmare Court and the Pale Tree Sylvari that we haven’t really examined in-depth yet. Specifically we know that the sylvari are able to leave the Dream behind (see: Soundless), and we know that once a creature falls into Nightmare it will never come back. We also know that there is more than one Dream and that sylvari of different trees don’t share the same dream. This can tell us two specific things about the nature of the Pale Tree and of the Nightmare Court.

It’s clear both in-game and in the lore that once a living creature is corrupted by a dragon, it is almost impossible to cleanse that corruption. In fact, after Orr was cleansed the only way to ensure it would stay that way was to slay Zhaitan and end the corruption once and for all. This does not align itself with the theory that Ventari’s teachings have corrupted the sylvari at all, as the Soundless are shown to be capable of willingly separating themselves from the Dream.

1.
I can agree with the belief that there are six or more dragons in Tyria rather than just the known five, and I can agree that the Crucible of Eternity would suggest exactly that. However, I don’t believe it is suggesting anything to do with the sylvari beyond a coincidentally shared habitat.

I believe that it’s more likely to be an actual dragon, still sleeping beneath the Maguuma Jungle and/or Tarnished Coast. No dragon has risen in that region yet (while others have risen elsewhere to the east and south). In addition, the fact that the Inquest are the ones studying it further implies that the dragon would be in this area. The Inquest are constantly referred to as immoral etc, and don’t seem to place a lot of stock in life (to a degree noticeably beyond the reasonable expectations of other asura).

I believe that the Inquest have been collecting data/power from a dragon that they’ve discovered out in the jungle somewhere, and aren’t sharing knowledge of its existence with others for their own selfish means. To me, the evidence of a sixth, unknown dragon portal in the Crucible of Eternity suggests that, not that the sylvari are part of the problem. It wouldn’t be the first time that asura have utilized (or tried to utilize) the power of a sleeping dragon to power their devices (see: Primordius in GW1), nor would it be the first time that a dragon has slept largely unobserved for an extended period of time. Maguuma is known to be an odd, magical, mysterious place teeming with energies, so it really is the perfect place for a sleeping dragon to mask itself and its power.

2.
I don’t believe that the lack of risen sylvari etc is evidence of anything more than the lack of risen sylvari etc. Unlike every other race in Tyria, the sylvari are less than 30 years of age. They weren’t around the last time the dragons were awake, and even now some of the dragons have awoken before the Firstborn emerged. I believe that the lack of corrupted sylvari is evidence of the dragons’ overall lack of knowledge regarding them as a race and as a species. For example, even though the quaggan lived out in the middle of the ocean and Jormag slept in the Far Shiverpeaks, we still see icebrood quaggans in Tyria.

I believe that’s evidence of knowledge of the quaggan race (or of its ancestors) more than I believe it’s evidence of the sylvari being minions. I’ll expand on this in my counter-theory.

3.
I don’t believe that Ventari’s teachings corrupted the Pale Tree. I believe that the Pale Tree is normal for her kind, and that Ventari’s teachings provided nothing more than additional knowledge for her children. The Dream is filled with the experiences of both the Pale Tree and her children, so it’s reasonable to believe that Ventari’s presence in the dream is nothing more than a piece of her past that she feels is relevant or useful. Ventari is the one that raised her and loved for her, so she remembers him by passing him on to her fruit. In a sense, he lives on through her.

I also don’t believe that the Pale Tree could reasonably be a dragon champion. Most champions are very strong and well-protected. They’re very important to their dragons, and when they break away they’re killed (see: Glint). The Pale Tree started as a magical seed found deep in a magical jungle. I can’t in good faith believe that a dragon would allow for its champions to be so vulnerable. A seed can be eaten, destroyed, dehydrated, stolen, moved, etc. which is something I don’t believe any dragon would reasonably risk. To support that and the idea that losing a champion is a heavy blow to a dragon, I’d like to point to The Great Destroyer’s defeat in GW1 and how that caused Primordius’ awakening to be postponed.

=
=
=

Once again this topic contains spoilers. If you have a solid distaste for spoilers then please navigate out of this topic.

=
=
=
=
=
=
=
=
=
=

Fair warning, this is a lot of text. I’ve broken it up into chunks to make it easier to get through (and also because it’s around 16500 characters and the forum allows 5001).

=
=
=

There’s a theory floating around that I don’t buy into, which basically follows along the lines of the Pale Tree either being a dragon or being a dragon’s champion, and that consequently sylvari are dragon minions.

I’ll be referring to this as the “Sylvari Dragon Theory” (or SDT) for the sake of this post.

The first version of this theory (that the Pale Tree is a dragon) states that the Pale Tree is buttering up the other races in order to defeat the dragons before ultimately conquering Tyria for herself, uncontested.

The second version (that the Pale Tree is a champion) claims that our playable sylvari are “corrupted” as the Pale Tree was influenced away from the dragon by Ventari’s teachings.

Regardless of which specific version is believed or discussed, the overall concept is based in some fairly decent evidence.

1. There’s a slot for (what is implied to be) a sixth dragon in the Crucible of Eternity dungeon. As there have only been five dragons discussed up to this point in time, the reasonable conclusion is that there is a sixth dragon floating about that we’re not yet aware of. The SDT suggests that the Pale Tree is either this dragon or its liberated champion.

2. There are no risen sylvari, icebrood sylvari, branded sylvari, or sylvari-like destroyers in Guild Wars 2. As dragons are not known to corrupt each others’ minions, the SDT suggests that the sylvari, who are not yet known to be corruptible, might therefore be the minions of a dragon.

3. Just as dragons have more than one champion to create their armies with, there is more than one entity similar to the Pale Tree that creates sylvari. We know that the Pale Tree is not unique in Tyria for her anatomy, but rather for her relationship with Ventari. The SDT suggests that the Pale Tree is a break-away champion and that her children are thus break-away minions. (In versions of the theory that believe the Pale Tree herself is a dragon, this tends to be omitted or unknown.)

4. The sylvari are not known to be created via corruption or turning such as Jormag’s and Kralkatorrik’s minions are. However, we know from Primordius that not all dragons must create their armies in this way. Therefore, the SDT suggests that the Pale Tree creates her armies in the image of other creatures (similarly to Primordius), which is supported by the appearances of the Sylvari and Sylvan Hounds.

5. The sylvari appeared in Tyria 25 years ago (or 23 years ago, it’s unclear), around the same time as the dragons’ awakenings. The SDT suggests that this is more than coincidence and that it implies the sylvari are dragon minions.

There are other ideas that have been passed around but for the most part some combination of these five thoughts seems to constitute the majority of the Sylvari Dragon Theory within the community. I personally do not believe that the sylvari are related to the dragons any more than the humans or jotun are. Let me break down each of the previous five points with my thoughts/rebuttals and then suggest a theory of my own.

Narcemus.1348:

So we’ll just pretend that our character just blacked out for 10 or so years after being born…..

But I guess the game story and the RP story don’t have to sync up at all, I mean if you are a nightmare courtier who is breaking into twilight arbor and killing the nightmare court founder…….

I don’t think you understand how video game roleplaying works.

Some people view character creation and character creation as two different things; one is nothing more than the means to another.

All sylvari characters that are created exist with the same canonical game story. When a sylvari goes through character creation, the player is creating a canonical, ArenaNet, lore-specific character who is on a Wyld Hunt to go fight Zhaitan.

However, some people enjoy playing their characters in a non-canonical manner. This doesn’t mean that they ignore the lore, but rather that they ignore the preset limitations the game imposes upon characters. Some people want to play as simple farmers — why would they bother with armor and guns if they’re supposed to be tending fields?

Canon and non-canon are both things that exist and are both things that are used for roleplay. If everyone played a strictly canonical character it simply would not work. It’s stated several times in the personal story that Caithe and the player character are the only sylvari to have had dreams of the dragon. If we have a room filled with 99 sylvari player characters and Caithe, and if we follow the lore strictly and specifically, then the lore breaks and we can’t roleplay because suddenly Caithe explodes due to the paradox. “There are only two sylvari who have had this dream.” “There are one hundred sylvari in the room who have had this dream.” Caithe explodes, Tyria melts, etc

Yeah you’re right though it’s better for us to never ever break canon under any circumstances.

It’s built into the client, so it’s probably in the terms of service or eula or something that you most likely shrugged at before clicking “I Accept” like most people do, myself included.

Rainydays.5368:

Kerithlan.1659:

I understand how wiki sourcing works. If you’ve ever used a wiki before then you’ll know that the majority of the time, information from different sources can be contradictory, and that it’s up to the wiki users to determine how best to interpret the varying sources to give the best presentation of the information, which isn’t always the most factual or accurate.

In this case the fact that the wiki sources are in tandem is irrelevant to the wiki’s overall credibility, and is 100% in tandem with my statement that people should use the wiki’s sources rather than the wiki itself if they need a concrete, trustworthy basis with which to form their opinions. A wiki is by its very nature a second-hand source — second-hand sources are always inferior to and less trustworthy than primary sources.

/shrug
Sorry, I don’t know what to tell you. At this point it feels like you are just going out of your way to feel that anything wiki tells you, you are going to question. That isn’t wrong and I actually commend you on the hard work and strive for facts.. but just be careful you don’t end up like, or sounding like a conspiracy theorist.

The reality here is that this has gotten way out of hand. Someone linked to the wiki claiming that there was something posted on it that wasn’t there. I posted to inform them that I didn’t find that line on the wiki and more importantly to remind them that the wiki is a community collaboration for source interpretation, not a source itself.

The point I was making is that the claimed line could have been dropped in there by the person who claimed it was on there, or by someone else at random who thought that such a conclusion could be drawn (incorrectly or not), or so on. The long and short of it is that someone posted to the wiki claiming that it was a source when it both wasn’t a source and wasn’t a reliable one if it was.

I use the wiki all the time, but I’m not going to sit around and hold what it says as gospel or pretend as though it’s always right. Just linking someone to the wiki is meaningless.

Disregard previous post, I searched it: http://systemexplorer.net/file-database/file/awesomium-dll

“Awesomium is a special projekt from Khrona LLC company – a web middleware extension between the web application and web browser UI front-end. This dynamic linking library is part of this application. More information can be found on http://awesomium.com/”

It’s most likely for the Black Lion and other in-client web devices. 100% safe.

I noticed it on my computer the other night and ended the process. It was only around while GW2 was running — I was fishing out background processes that I didn’t need in order to improve my performance, and as I didn’t recognize awesomeium.dll I killed it.

If it’s a virus then we’re both infected. If it’s part of GW2, then oops.

Sherman.4631:

I made a new a new character and I have spend a bunch of time in the Norn starting zone and I notice that a bunch of Norn are guardian, on all the players have I seen most of them were guardian maybe 50% or more.

Am I the only one to notice that or am just playing at the right time, in the right server and the right zone ?

It’s my experience that at least half of the active players in the game at any given time are playing guardians, regardless of level, race, location etc. Guardian is the best soloing profession and the easiest to pick up and go with. They wouldn’t be all over the place if they weren’t strong compared to other professions.

I understand how wiki sourcing works. If you’ve ever used a wiki before then you’ll know that the majority of the time, information from different sources can be contradictory, and that it’s up to the wiki users to determine how best to interpret the varying sources to give the best presentation of the information, which isn’t always the most factual or accurate.

In this case the fact that the wiki sources are in tandem is irrelevant to the wiki’s overall credibility, and is 100% in tandem with my statement that people should use the wiki’s sources rather than the wiki itself if they need a concrete, trustworthy basis with which to form their opinions. A wiki is by its very nature a second-hand source — second-hand sources are always inferior to and less trustworthy than primary sources.

Don’t forget that the centaur are constantly referred to as xenophobes (and occasionally as badgering racists). Even if they tolerate the sylvari more than other races, they’re still not centaur/animals and as such still aren’t buddies.

Ventari was more or less an outsider in his time (by not rejecting peace with the humans and/or for seeing them as equals rather than inferior), so I don’t believe the Harathi, Modniir, or any other tribe would hold the sylvari connection close or lend it much weight.

BabelFish.7234:

Kerithlan.1659:

Ramethzero.3785:

Link:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sylvari

“The Pale Tree took nourishment from that soil, and therefore, the sylvari are predisposed to be shaped in a humanoid manner.”

Taken directly from the wiki, so it is considered Lore. Also, be sure you are not confused in the difference between the meanings of both words ‘Theory’ and ‘Hypothesis’.

I can edit the wiki to say that the norn all have a vestigial organ located between the liver and stomach called the squippo that, at one point in time, allowed them to get drunk off of water at will. I could also write up about how this no longer functions to explain why norn drink so much brew now.

Since it’d be on the wiki, would it then be considered canonical and a part of the lore, at least until it’s removed by the wiki team?

No, because wikis aren’t reliable sources of lore regardless of how well-maintained they are. The fact that it’s on the wiki just means that the majority of the wiki’s editors believe it to be relevant and factual enough to present.

Additionally, that line is not on the wiki.

If you edited the wiki in a matter of hours they’d send you a email telling you that your information wasn’t contributing, wasn’t cited and was wrong followed by a warning that if you do it again they’ll IP ban you.

Point being, yes you can screw with wiki but wiki can also screw with you.

I understand that. Point being that the wiki by its very nature isn’t a reliable source. The primary sources it pulls information are.

A wiki of any variety on any subject is a collective interpretation of information drawn from multiple sources and from multiple people. It’s an accepted standard. That’s it. When there’s primary sources available there’s no need to rely on the collective’s interpretation.

BrunoBRS.5178:

Kerithlan.1659:

Kieran swam during War in Kryta, which took place after Nightfall. I can’t remember any other specific mentions of swimming, though I suspect they’re around (just like horses).

i could swear WiK was post EotN?

And what was Eye of the North? That’s right, post-Nightfall!

Jesus christ.

BrunoBRS.5178:

but the thing is, it does. that’s all the lore explanation we’re given: waypoints are tiny one-way asura gates. maybe you carry a device in your pocket, maybe your map is an actual map your character carries around, and the map is full of magitech properties. we don’t know. we just know that waypoints are tiny one-way asura gates.

Yeah but it doesn’t. The OP is asking for what “makes sense” specifically because few details are given. If you’re going to roleplay something that doesn’t have strongly established lore (such as the waypoints) the next step is to substitute with a community brainstorm.

Why are you always so contrary?

Phuriok.9307:

I would disagree that commanders should not move borderlands. A commander’s job is not to only one map but to his server as a whole. If you can make a much bigger impact on another map with the forces you have, then you should absolutely change borderlands.

Being a commander I’m not gonna post much in this thread cause it’s nice for me to kinda use it as a self evaluator and I’m feelin good readin it so far lol. But one thing that commanders should keep in mind is that if you don’t have small parties at your disposal to do some of the important things like hang back and man 4 arrow carts at a supply camp while you strengthen your defenses, then try and use your blue icon to manipulate the zerg.

It’s amazing what you can do by putting yourself in a place you want to be focused. Or simply stay in a spot like a tower that you’re trying to build up, while communicating through T chat what you need and where. If people can’t follow you around anymore they will usually divert their attention to the next best thing, chat.

This is what happened on my server last night. Our borderlands had been completely taken, and we had three commanders step up with major guilds behind them and turn things around. We reclaimed and held our borderlands, fortified everything to the teeth, and then when the situation was under control one of our commanders and his guild went off to an opposing borderlands while the other went to run through the eternal battleground and refortify our castle.

If your home is under control and is going to stay that way for a few hours, then it’s in the best interests of a commander to spoil the current greatest threat’s home turf. If they’re busy pushing you out of their own lands it’ll be harder for them to mount a reasonable offense on your own.

Kieran swam during War in Kryta, which took place after Nightfall. I can’t remember any other specific mentions of swimming, though I suspect they’re around (just like horses).

Ramethzero.3785:

Link:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sylvari

“The Pale Tree took nourishment from that soil, and therefore, the sylvari are predisposed to be shaped in a humanoid manner.”

Taken directly from the wiki, so it is considered Lore. Also, be sure you are not confused in the difference between the meanings of both words ‘Theory’ and ‘Hypothesis’.

I can edit the wiki to say that the norn all have a vestigial organ located between the liver and stomach called the squippo that, at one point in time, allowed them to get drunk off of water at will. I could also write up about how this no longer functions to explain why norn drink so much brew now.

Since it’d be on the wiki, would it then be considered canonical and a part of the lore, at least until it’s removed by the wiki team?

No, because wikis aren’t reliable sources of lore regardless of how well-maintained they are. The fact that it’s on the wiki just means that the majority of the wiki’s editors believe it to be relevant and factual enough to present.

Additionally, that line is not on the wiki.

He knows exactly what they are, he was asking for the lore behind them. You guys told him nothing he didn’t already know.

They’re tiny one-way asura gates — AWESOME, right? Sweet, so that doesn’t answer the OP’s question.

How does a player use them from anywhere on the map, in a lore sense? The waypoints just sit around doing nothing until you activate one of them from sometimes miles and worlds away. How can you justify my activation of a waypoint in let’s say Lornar’s Pass when I’m off in Metrica Province? It makes no kitten sense without some sort of time skip as I explained above.

ksabers.9467:

I would add that their shape has been decided by the Pale Tree exactly because they need to interact with other humanoid races.
Surely the Tree could have created giant tomatoes with five eyes and a bunch of tentacles, but probably the other races would have had some problems in getting along with them.

Not me, that’d been more natural. Plus I’d drink more V8.

I don’t believe that an asuran warrior needs justification, honestly. They’ve existed in lore since pre-GW1 (via Eye of the North stories).

An asuran warrior is just an asura that respects martial puzzles as much as mental puzzles. Warriors don’t have to be strong or stupid. In fact an asuran warrior is most probably unbelievably intelligent to the point that she’s augmented her physical capabilities in some absurd way. For example she might have created a golem-like exoskeleton or hand/foot binders or something that give her the ability to turn ogre skulls to dust with a single punch.

I actually believe that there were asura in GW1 working on just such a device. It’d be a branch of Dynamics and Golemancy.