Guild Wars 2

Kraag Deadsoul.2789:

mambastik.8735:

[snip]
Necro would be my 3rd alt, and the play style is completely different. We don’t get out of stuns, but instead we Fear them away so they don’t do anything to us while we’re down.

Exactly. You have to change your mindset if coming to Necro from other professions. You are not going to disengage from fights or avoid CC as a general rule (some outlier exceptions exist using Dark Path, Flesh Wurm, or Spectral Walk).

Instead, approach the Necromancer with the mindset that once you engage in combat, you’re there to see it through to the bitter end (where you’re concerned) or your opponent manages to escape (where they’re concerned). It’s rare you will be able to disengage, so pick your battles carefully.

+1 to this.

spoj.9672:

Kitedyou.1720:

The thing I do have a problem is, is with people like Spoj that think everything you say is gospel and there can be no other answer.

Do you actually even read my posts? I said i only support nemesis because he has similar opinions to me. I dont take everything he says as gospel. Infact i disagree with alot of the viability and ways he traits some of his builds. I think my beserker build is better than his, but thats just my opinion. But the fact is someone who knows about the class (like nemesis) is going to have a more valid outlook on what the class is capable of. Which is why i often agree with him, not because its him but because i actually see it the same way…

Okay, just trying to make sure you weren’t baaaaah baaahing along just because he made some videos.

Relax a bit Spoj, that vein can only burst once.

Like I said before, I think it is good that he takes the time out of what must be a very busy schedule to make “tutorials” for the people that either don’t have the time or are too lazy to figure it out.

I just didn’t like how you tried to discount someone else’s post because they suggested using SoS. Your opinion, at the time, seemed to be predicated upon whatever Nemesis said.

Now, with all that being said, this pretentious thread has gotten far more attention than it deserves…

@ Nemesis,

I think it is a good thing that you are doing this for the people that can’t think for themselves. There is no problem with people appreciating your time and efforts; I for one would not do what you do because I don’t have the desire.

The thing I do have a problem is, is with people like Spoj that think everything you say is gospel and there can be no other answer.

I am not irritated or upset with you, so I would like to apologize to you if that was the impression that I gave you.

I can’t stand when people just nod and agree with everything other people say.

Keep up the good work for other people’s sake though, Nemesis.

One bit of constructive criticism though…perhaps come up with a script for your videos because they have the tendency to ramble on…and that is why I only watched a few minutes of one of the many videos you put together.

spoj.9672:

I have no problem sharing my builds with people.

Sorry, you took the word “your” out of context in my post about “sharing your build”. I was referring to Nemesis with “your”.

As far as sharing builds and stuff…well, everyone is going to do things differently. I LOL at the people that play Tarzan from his fly because they cannot seem to reason things out for themselves.

Don’t get me wrong, Nemesis may be both a good person in RL and a good player…but the way people worship him because he spent some time making a video to enlighten the sheep masses is funny.

Figure out what works for you and go with it; don’t be afraid to go against the grain and be independent.

@ Spoj
He never said it was a “stupid idea”. He was more worried that people would try to copy it…

Why not share your build with everyone? Especially if you are concerned with people not valuing a Necro in PvE…

spoj.9672:

Arvid.3829:

Who the hell is talking about actual generally viable builds here? Nemesis is boasting having recorded the highest necro hit and all I’m doing is giving some suggestions about how to possibly make it higher. Then you starting kittening about how my suggestions aren’t generally viable? Really? Do you go in ‘look I soloed lupi’ threads as well to complain about how the builds aren’t very team oriented?

I think your missing the point. Nemesis wasnt trying to get the highest possible hit. He was trying to get the highest possible hit with a viable bursting build. Signet of spite isnt viable on that build. Theres plenty of things he could change to make ghastly claws hit harder. Axe mastery, make sure he has max stacks of vuln, might and fury along with banner of strength and banner of discipline. Full stacks of bloodlust and perception then swap weapon to one with sigil of force or night. See? I can make pointless suggestions aswell.

Spoj…I wonder if you think before you post some times… He has Spectral Grasp slotted!! I mean, vvtf does he need that for in a dungeon?! I agree with Arvid…shoulda had SoS in there…instead of a skill that is useless in a dungeon…

LameFox.6349:

Nice to see you’ve learned video editing though lol. The ratio of intro to content in this video is quite astounding.

LOL! This is for stroking E – Peen.

Do this solo…without the constant fury, 25 stacks of might, 25 stacks of whatever your sigil is and the warbanners and the constant regen and the aegis. The 25 stacks of vulnerability you can keep because that is pretty easy for a Necro, alone, to do.

Only then should it deserve the pretentious “highest hit” title.

I do, however, want to say “thank you” for helping people understand the mechanics of the class and taking the time to do that.

SupahSpankeh.8452:

Staff is godawful in power builds. Only one ability hits reasonably well, and that’s on a 40s timer. The only time you should be using staff 1 is when you’ve used all the marks you should use (or the one you switched to staff to use) and you’ve got time to kill, or when you positively HAVE to be at 1200 range.

At all other times, staff is terrible in all builds. Sceptre/dagger applies more conditions, axe or dagger does more power damage.

Building “around” staff is a terrible mistake and your build will suck. That’s not to say you shouldn’t use staff, because the condition transfer, AoE fear and bleed/chill/poison are great, but building “around” it is folly.

I agree with most of what you say, though it is very good for Zoomancers…though it should never be your only weapon and building around staff is “folly”. Staff works differently with each skill set and trait spec. It is very situation dependent.

You took all that time to write this and no one has answered…
I’ll answer you, though it won’t be as lengthy.

I had my eyes on this class before the game even came out. It was the draw of using pets for me…reminiscent of my main class in DAoC, the Bonedancer.

Staff is viable, IMO, though, it takes time to master using it and evading at the right time.

Kardiamond.6952:

@Kitedyou

Necromancer are prolly the worse solo roamer in the game.

Not because we have a bad class, but because our strenght&weakness don’t go well with roaming.

Lack of mobility, defense mecanism useless again more then 1-2 enemies, not much access to stability, low burst, low substain.

We can still do it. And if you are good you can pull some good thing, but it’s a lot harder then any other class I solo roamed with. Once you are outnumbered, you are dead in most case.

I personally roam with a small group of 2-4 players. I use Flesh Worm and spectral walk, because they are the only way I have to survive. Also never forget Dark Path, cast it on mobs, turn around in another direction so the enemy turn in oposite direction. When you’ll port they will lose contact with you, maybe giving you time to escape.

Also never forget about DS/jump to your dead. Goes as high as you can, jump down, and switch to DS. You can survive any jump, if they follow you, put marks on the ground. Might get some kills.

We do have some tools to escape, but it’s the hardest in the game.

Disagree. You need to know your limitations is all I have to say. I never have any problems with roaming…that is why you have the ability to WP out of crappy situations.

Pick your fighting grounds and know your exits well and you will do great.

Necros are plenty fine for roaming…I do it probably 90% of the time I am in WvW.

You just need to find good places for ambush and know where your escape routes are.

Anyways…if I had to re-roll, I would likely go with Charr or Asura… I am not sure I would use their elites…but their 6-9 skill options are pretty sweet…

I am currently Norn, btw.

Just an FYI, Zoomancer spec is great for soloing PvE champs that don’t have a massive AOE attack.

Cempa, you need to provide more details on what your tactics are going to be…what I mean is are you planning on trying Wellmancer, Zoomancer or Condomancer?

Fill in your slot skills to help people get a better idea of what you are looking at.

Just a funny observation…the OP appears to have abandoned this post…they haven’t said “boo” in three days. :p

Azraeel.1238:

I am interested to know few things out of your build:

1- With such high toughness and no points in Soul Reaping, don’t you have issues in dungeons that you pull so much aggro?
2- Why sigil of Geomancy?
3- Do you really do fine damage with this build? Critical chance is at 40%, barely any critical damage, and power is fine. How much do you crit for?

Hey Azraeel.
After trying many many many different specs and studying the trait lines for hours on end I came up with this config. I have been using this spec for a long time now and the damage output is pretty kitten good for WvW.
The only class that gives me issues is the thief class…but that class gives most every other class issues too so no surprise there. The Geomancer sigil does an aoe bleed and dmg to boot., good for that little bit of extra DPS and for helping to keep thiefs on their toes because if they are near you they are getting hit with it.

You can put whatever sigil you want in the weapons. I have a few different weapons that I carry with me for the different aspects of the game.

For WvW I have a focus that has a bloodlust sigil on it that I use for getting the charges then swap out. For PvE (non-dungeon) I have a staff that has the luck sigil on it that I swap out after I get the max charge. And yes, I have a second set of armor that I carry with me.

The trait lines I have picked allow you do various things without having to respec.

Example:

WvW
Use dagger/focus primarily in fights, unless I need additional cleansing (from staff).
This would be the configuration I would use: http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/necromancer/?5.4|8.1g.h2.d.1n.h15|6.1n.h1k|1n.7p.1n.7p.1n.7p.1n.7p.1n.7p.1n.7p|2s.0.21j.0.31j.0.21j.0.31j.0.2v.0|u2ac.0.k27.k23.0|2e.1|3r.3u.44.43.4g|e

PvE (non-dungeon)
Use staff for mass pulls and farming.
This would be the config I use:
http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/necromancer/?5.4|6.1n.h15|8.1g.h2.d.1n.h15|1n.71l.1n.71l.1n.71l.1n.71l.1n.71l.1n.b1m|1n.65.1n.65.1n.65.1n.65.1n.65.1c.65|u19c.0.k25.k37.0|2e.1|3s.4d.3y.41.4g|e

PvE (dungeon)
Use staff for most everything.
This would be the config I use:
http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/necromancer/?5.4|6.1n.h1k|8.1g.h2.d.1n.h15|1n.7p.1n.7p.1n.7p.1n.7p.1n.7p.1n.7p|2s.0.21j.0.31j.0.21j.0.31j.0.2v.0|u17c.0.k24.k68.0|2e.1|3t.4d.4a.4c.4f|e

To answer your question about the 40% crit rate; I have tried crit rate in the 60+% range and I just don’t feel it justifies the sacrafice you have to make in other areas. Just my opinion from many hours of trial and error with the necro. I have seen ticks on dagger 2 after focus 4 hit for as high as 6500. I don’t recall the crit dmg for dagger 1.
There have been very few solo fights that I have lost against non-thief classes. A few warriors got me good, but they were control spec, and I was new to fighting them at the time. Mesmers are always a PITA… you just have to look for the one that is either strafing, moving backwards, or running the other way. The clones always face you.

Hope that helps.

Everyone is always worried about doing mega damage…but what about being able to take good damage too. I lol at zerker spec’d anything that isn’t thief, good ol’ DS to take care of their burst, then you hit with chill and immobilize them and then pwnsauce em’ because they have everything on timers and no health. :o)

Panhauramix.2784:

@Kitedyou: Do you mean the ability is on cooldown when you get downed and you’re stuck waiting for it to cast, or just that the spell is available but it takes long to cast?

Skill queue will mess your Fear, as you will cast it immediately on Down without even seeing your Downed bar, and when you’ll see it appear it will be on a 7-8 second cooldown. Make sure to not spam 2 if you’re near death

Wow…if your statement is even remotely accurate…\/\/TF to that too! That should be fixed ASAP. Also, it is not on cool down because I can see that it is in the process of casting (shown via the light gray shading that occurs when a skill is pressed)

The skill is available, but it takes far too long to cast.

@ Softspoken: I have never had an issue with this before the patch…and now all of a sudden it is a huge issue. I tend to run solo and so my fights aren’t lagged up by all the special effects that one would experience in running with a zerg. I used to be able to hit my two key just as the enemy was jumping into the air and it would fear them instantly, or darn near instantly. Now, I can mash the hell out of it as soon as I hit the ground and I still get finished without it even going off.

I’ll try to get a video of this later on…as much as I hate the idea of losing a fight…

Not sure if this is a highly reliable source for the information, but aside from my experience in the past, this is all I have to go on; I’m at work ATM.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/List_of_downed_skills
The Necromancer downed state #2 used to be available right away and instant (assuming I remember correctly)…then this recent large patch came out and now it takes seconds to cast.
The other thing that I am wondering about is, should #3 be available right away too? I mean, if you are just downed then you haven’t had a chance to use it until then…why is it on cool down as soon as you hit the downed state?

While I was looking at that list…I realized we are the only class that doesn’t have either a “I’m gonna move” or “EVERYONE get away from me” move…

Every other class has something that either knocks everyone away or allows them to move to an easier to rez location…

\/\/TF!?

- Edit – The ranger gets the blunt end of the deal too…

Not sure if this is a highly reliable source for the information, but aside from my experience in the past, this is all I have to go on; I’m at work ATM.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/List_of_downed_skills

The Necromancer downed state #2 used to be available right away and instant (or darned near to it) ...then this recent large patch came out and now it takes seconds to cast.

The other thing that I am wondering about is, should #3 be available right away too? I mean, if you are just downed then you haven’t had a chance to use it until then…why is it on cool down as soon as you hit the downed state?

This ability hasn’t been functioning as an instant any more since the last big patch.

It takes several seconds to fire.

Please look into this.

This ability for me hasn’t been instant…there are many times recently where it has taken several seconds to cast before it went off.

Please address this!

A bit OP if I do say so myself…

Perhaps you should look into Transfusion (BM6) or even Deathly Invigoration (BM9)…

I have been using a configuration similar to this (all Knight items) and my survive-ability in all situations is fantastic and damage is pretty good too.

I think I will be changing to this gear setup though, the damage output is a bit higher.

For dungeons you can stick with staff the entire time because you have all the big bonus traits for staff in this spec.

As far as wvw, run dagger most of the time; as with anything it is situation dependent.

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/necromancer/?5.4|8.1n.h1k.d.1n.h2|6.1n.h1k|1n.7p.1n.7p.1n.7p.1n.7p.1n.7p.1n.7p|2s.0.21j.0.31j.0.21j.0.31j.0.2u.0|u2ac.0.k27.k23.0|2e.1|3r.3u.44.43.4g|e

This is a better all around build, I think, it is more flexible in that you can change out your abilities to wells (great for dungeons) and the traits that add benefit to wells.

Then you can switch back to the above spec for solo roaming in wvw.

And you can even go Zoomancer spec for farming a lotta pve mobs and have good survivability.

What I like about it is that I don’t have to re-trait every time I want to do something different.

Also The first spec that is listed above is incorrectly calculated by the website, it is increasing the staff damage by way of the Axe Training trait.

Just my two cents.

Jon, I did forget my manners earlier. Thanks for getting that fixed AND restoring some of my faith in the Necro team.

JonPeters.5630:

Ok Spiteful Talisman is fixed locally. This should appear in about 2 weeks.

Wooohooo!! Why wait to release it though!!? We have been suffering long enough, release the fix!!

But seriously, can you please work on enhancing the reliability of focus #4? It is terrible that just because you aren’t facing your target AFTER using this ability the bounces stop.

The concern I have about Jon’s statement “I’ll look at Spiteful Talisman in the morning” is that it sounds very much like what business people say when they aren’t going to do anything… “We’ll take a look at it.”

I hope something gets done here…

While they are at it, the focus abilities should be made more reliable. It is aggravating how when you try to use it and you turn so the target is not directly in front of you, the bounces stop. Please fix that too, Jon.

I think the following build is very viable.

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/necromancer/?5.4|8.1n.h2.d.1n.h15|6.1n.h15|1n.7w.1n.7w.1n.7w.1n.7w.1n.71g.1n.71g|41j.0.31j.0.21j.0.31j.0.21j.0.3u.0|u2ac.0.u257.a2.0|0.0|3r.44.3u.43.4f|e

It has around the same amount of power as my previous current build and I win more often than not against anything that isn’t a good theif.

The toughness is higher in this one as well, which makes up for losing my Rune of the Forge…

Whaddya think? I am going to get a second set of gear going tonight and try it out.

Nay of the Ether.8913:

Honestly the best defense I have found for thieves is just playing one and learning the cooldowns and timers for stealth. If you know how each skill works and are familiar with it, all you have to do is count down. You can time it nearly perfectly to dodge, because most of them do the same exact rotations, same exact timing because they’re limited by stealth time. Once their main stealth is gone, burst them to pieces, and make sure you are using retaliation. It eats them up fast. And if you can’t burst them down but you countered their 3 main bursts they do, they tuck tail and run which is still a win for you.

Retaliation is the trick up my sleeve for these guys… Great minds think alike.

I am getting some interesting feedback on the thief forum and will have a build soon that I am going to test out…

The problem that I am going to try and avoid is getting pigeon hole’d into being able to beat thieve’s and nothing else…that is my primary concern…

It is interesting hearing everyone’s take on what class is the class to beat for theif’s. I hope to hear other peoples input on this subject too.

What about Mesmers makes them tough? Is it the confusion, multiple illusions, or something else?

I have heard that Guardians are the worst. What the heck makes them the worst? Their retaliation, condition cleanse, block?

Pretty much sums it up in the topic title; also, sorry about the title…apparently GW2 forums can’t handle more than 45 chars, we are all doomed!!!)

As a thief, what class do you least enjoy (or for the masochists out there; enjoy) fighting, and why is that?

What about that class makes you run the other way?

It sounds as though there is no reliable way for a Necro to beat a Thief…I don’t like that answer really…I will find a way, eventually…

If they have a hard time with Guardians…what is it about the guardian that makes them so tough?

The thief that I was talking to in my guild is one that I would consider a pretty good one…and he said that he doesn’t like fighting guardians…

I’m going take this conversation the Thief section and ask them what they hate about guardians…

flow.6043:

I suppose you meant to take Mark of Evasion? Or is Bloodlust really just for the sigil?
In terms of thief countering, you might want to take those 10 points into Curses for Weakening Shroud. Maybe even 15 for Furious Demise, seeing that you have a power heavy build with just 37% crit chance (not a fan of Spiteful Vigor). That would also make your on-crit-sigils more effective.
Speaking of which: Consider taking 2 Sigils of Geomancy. I have a little less power and precision in my build, but I have seen the sigil do 1500 damage (usually it’s about 700-1k). Direct damage, that is… not the 3 stacks of bleeding.

And of course, Signet of the Locust doesn’t help you at all against thieves (or any class really). So if you know you’re about to engage, you could switch it out.

One more thing: Maybe Chill of Death instead of Spiteful Talisman.

Bloodlust is for dagger #2 primarily.

Regarding the Sigil of Geomancy… That is a pretty good amount of damage from that sigil, that is for sure…any idea if that damage gets the 20% bonus from Close to Death (not the bleeding, obviously)?

I am still toying around with Sigils…I guess I should head to pvp test area and see what the effects of each one is… There are so many that I am unfamiliar with… Thanks.

Some OK fixes for the Necro… Thanks for those…
So, if I am to understand the Death Nova trait’s interaction with sacrificing the Wurm (via Necrotic Traversal), the poison duration should be at a base of 8 seconds…because they would stack, correct? <— Assuming that you can get the enemy within reach of the wurm and it is going to die anyways.

Attention still needs to be paid to controlling the pets. Please add a window that will allow players with pets to control them. See the following post for clarification:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Pet-Control-Window/first#post2104575

So, if I am understanding all of this discussion correctly…Staff is the primary weapon of attack/defense against thieves.

Presumably then, having 20% faster staff and larger marks is a good thing…

So what about the second spec, if anything, should change?

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQNAW4djMap7FbKb87JApHPfNvTF4G6Ru76MA-jkCBYMRGrBgCEiuAgwAOBqIasVXhtEbIaKbYaYER1A-w

I think placing the marks in such a manner would work best…

http://www.regentsprep.org/Regents/math/geometry/GP4/tricircle.gif

Ignore the text in the circles, I just found any image that best fit my thoughts.

They can evade one or two, but there should always be one that remains…

I usually don’t have an issue with other classes. I am trying to find a way to deal with thieves more effectively while not negatively impacting my abilities against other classes…

@ Rennoko; that is a funny thing you said there about not stacking marks…lol! <— guilty

Never thought about the evade in and attack you deal… Haha, thanks for pointing that out. I will have to try to better time the stealth attacks it appears.

I think retaliation might be a waste…but cannot be sure at this point…not without trying it I guess.

I only use DS in dire situations…so for me to pop in and out of it wouldn’t really matter to me.

Signet of the Locust is helpful for running down those pesky rangers, ele’s and mesmers that want to try and keep their distance.

If I know I have a thief coming, I usually change it out (WoS or WoC) because I know they are going to want melee range so speed isn’t really an issue there.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQNAW4djMap7FbKb87JApHPfNvTF4G6Ru76MA-jkCBYMRGrBgCEiuAgwAOBqIasVXhtEbIaKbYaYER1A-w

I don’t particularly enjoy playing as a condition-mancer… What about something like the above link? I think it would serve well for fighting most everything out there… and when a thief decides to jump ya, they would be taking damage back every time they hit you.
In looking at the thief ability tree, they have heavy healing…poison is just about the only way to reduce that, that and chill…

The above link is just theory-crafting…I think it would work pretty good against other classes too though…

Thoughts?

I should mention that I bloodlust up and switch weapons afterwards…

So…I have been playing a power necro in WvW for a while now…and the only class that I have yet to figure out how to beat consistently is the thief…

I was talking to a guild-mate the other day and they were saying that guardians give him the hardest time… I asked why and he couldn’t really recall what it was specifically…

So, I figure I’ll ask the Necro community for tip and ideas on how to beat a thief in WvW…

My setup: http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/necromancer/?5.4|6.1n.h2|8.1n.h2.d.1n.h15|1n.7p.1n.7p.1n.7p.1n.7p.1n.7p.1n.7p|41j.0.3u.0.2u.0.31j.0.2u.0.3u.0|u27c.0.k25.k12.0|0.0|3r.3u.40.44.4f|e

Any thoughts on this are also appreciated. I typically don’t have too much trouble beating anything 1v1, those kitten thieves though…give me a run for the money.

Another thing that would be nice for pets is the ability to actively see their health bar in a window.

Krosslite.1950:

This seems like one of those things that you see Anet doing in round table meetings in 2009 or 2010.

I have a feeling that is what happened. You do realize your two handers do a lot of damage don’t you?

So this post in actuality boils down to please nerf my two-handers so I can give it more stats

As the person that gets the original intent of this post all wrong….the award goes to ::drum roll:: Krosslite!! L2R

Dude, get a clue, when did I say nerf the power of the 2h? I actually said quite the opposite…give it a second sigil slot

K, thx, bye.

Heh, whomever said that two handed weapons do more damage than 1h, hasn’t seen the dmg output from necro dagger…

Animag.7634:

One-handed weapons are more expensive than two-handed weapons, considering you need two of them

Not sure what the point is here… :\

It really does seem kinda biased if you ask me…I am surprised that no one else out there has thought about this…

Heh, I can’t stand it when I go to use an ability and LOS is such that the ability fails and the timer gets reset as if the spell actually got used…

+1 to yours and, because I am bit(hing about it, +1 to my idea