I just want them to tell us its fricken name, unless there is something truly spoiler-ish about it I can see no reason for us to go however many years its been without giving us its name.
It’s name…
Is…
Scarlet Briar.
The trailers clearly show us fighting Awakened, which would point to us fighting against Joko as well as Balthazar and Kralkatorrik. A kind of “against enemies on all sides” kind of situation seems to be the case.
Lets hope they don’t turn him into an unredemptive megalomaniac like they seem to be doing to Balthazar, though.
No real indication if any sea dragon concept art we’ve seen is tied to the DSD or not, truthfully, either as the DSD itself or as a champion.
As for it if is a threat, basically what Aaron and Randulf said – it’s not an immediate threat but it is a threat, and it can become an immediate threat at a moment’s notice.
I wouldn’t call Balthazar from GW1 a “big jerk” – he had anger issues and wasn’t the kindest god for sure, but he, as narwhalsbend said, still valued, and blessed, strength, courage, and valor.
Hell, this was even so in core GW2. But with Season 3, we’re getting a lot of painting him black both in modern times and retroactively. And the same is being attributed to the other gods, except Abaddon.
To quote Balthazar in the trailer:
“I will right this wrong.”
-skip-
“They cannot escape my wrath.”
“When I am done… I will be the only god.”
This seems to me that the theories of the other gods betraying Balthazar / being the cause of his fall is true. But worst yet is that this is almost an exact duplicate of Abaddon’s plot.
When he rebelled against the gods, it was after they revoked his gift of magic and the Forgotten nearly wiped out his people, and his goal became to rule Tyria as the “only god”. With Nightfall, his goal appeared to change to freedom and revenge against the gods, without much care for ruling Tyria.
Now we have Balthazar, who sees himself betrayed by the other gods, and seeks revenge against them.
Did ArenaNet think we loved Abaddon’s plot so much we want to see it happen again or something?
We don’t know why the gods weakened Balthazar, but it seems based on his dialogue that this is so. Otherwise, he would not be proclaiming to be “the only god” when all is said and done. Unless the other gods are already dead, which I find unlikely as that would make him already the only god (unless they were usurped by Dhuum and Menzies or similar beings he is now out to kill).
Even his forces seem to be akin to a duplication of Abaddon’s – his mercenaries seem no more, replaced instead by these “Forged”, and just as Margonites were demonic-like beings with watery bodies, these are demonic-like constructs with fiery bodies… Next we’ll learn the Forged are the mercenaries… Or better yet – they’re the Zaishen!
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Livia created the oath, so she would know if it was a fraud or not. And she and Anise could decide to break it if it wasn’t magical; after all, other Shining Blade members were not around until after we talked to Anise about it.
The oath seems clearly real, and all it does is prevent talking about Shining Blade secrets to non-Shining Blade.
Flameseeker simply refers to the one seeking the “Flame”, which is the Titans, originally depicted as beings of fire.
I do not believe that the prophecy being fulfilled here was the Flameseeker Prophecies, after all Glint said the Prophecies had been fulfilled not with the wiping of the mursaat, but the death of Khilbron and the re-closing of the Door of Komalie.
I find it hard to believe that the person who foresaw the events would not know when the prophecy is over. Nor would I believe that someone who had absolutely no direct relation to the events of the prophecy know the prophecy did not end yet.
More likely, Livia was referring to the purpose of The Shining Blade – in the second story step, you can interact with about a dozen objects throughout the Shining Blade’s HQ, one of which tells that the sword was gifted to the order after the end of the War in Kryta story arc to slay down the last remaining mursaat. That is likely the prophecy Livia refers to.
A lot of people keep bringing up the Flameseeker Prophecies as what Livia refers to, but the events of Prophecies make it abundantly clear that yes, the prophecy was fulfilled in the very first campaign.
The Flameseeker Prophecies never actually foretold genocide of the mursaat, btw.
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Abaddon is dead. The devs have said such time and time again.
His soul was imprisoned, after the Exodus in Year 0, but in 1075 AE he began building a new body and invaded Tyria (world) during the events of Nightfall, at the end of which everything left of Abaddon – his power, will, and probably soul – was absorbed into Kormir.
At the end, neither Abaddon nor Kormir of old really exists anymore, and what’s in place is a combination of the two – Kormir’s body, knowledge, and will, Abaddon’s power and knowledge.
Abaddon “dying and resurrecting in the Mists” is 100% a fan fiction that has been debunked by ArenaNet. People tend to deny canon lore if it fits their fanon though.
The only god still imprisoned – to the best of our knowledge – is Dhuum. But hints indicate he broke free in the past 250 years.
Dhuum’s overthrow is a different matter from Abaddon’s, as his body was not destroyed and his will not absorbed. We don’t know why it’s different, presumably it’s because Grenth was a demi-god already or perhaps it’s because Dhuum was the god of death thus rules of death cannot apply to him even when he loses his divinity.
Balthazar is indeed Balthazar – ArenaNet even alluded to the idea of him being someone else in Draconis Mons. To paraphrase the NPC to the best of my memory: “Someone pretending to be a god pretending to be a mursaat? That’s just ridiculous.” And Kasmeer even confirmed that he had no illusion left on him when he revealed himself. So if that isn’t Balthazar, then it needs to be someone who can physically disguise himself as the god of war and fire, and can physically use fire without any aid of objects. Which seems highly unlikely (maybe Menzies, but he was always about darkness and suffocation of fire, rather than about fire).
As to “Abaddon may have known about dragon magic” we know for a fact that all six gods knew about the Elder Dragons. This got confirmed and referenced multiple times in Season 2. A third of what Tyrians know of the Elder Dragons come from the “Tome of the Five True Gods”, in fact (the other two thirds coming from jotun and dwarven texts).
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….
….
….
(EDIT: For those unaware of the above: for some unknown reason, Joko had a handful of undead that appeared to be charr in his army, and mummy charr = hairless too :P)
Before Abaddon, I think we need to finish our current gods’ outfits.
Give us Grenth’s Regalia (because his avatar is kind of in the game already ) and Melandru’s Avatar before we get Kormir, Abaddon, and Dhuum.
Actually he has his own armor appearance. which is very similar to the GW1 dervish elite skill Avatar of Balthazar / the GW2 Balthazar’s Regalia outfit, but also notably different. The only difference between his look in the game and in the cinematic is that they shadowed his face for dramatic effect.
Regarding the OP: As you can see in this image he is very much not a tengu. I’m… not even sure how one got “tengu” out of that either.
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On the last bit Aaron said: We only have confirmation he went into his own and Abaddon’s vaults. We never go into any of the vaults aside from Abaddon’s, mind you, so we cannot tell if they are “barren” (you can find a hatch, like the one we go through for Abaddon’s, at every reliquary area, and we cannot enter those other five).
Reza and Dagonet also don’t make mention of Balthazar stopping at Melandru’s reliquary, only that he went into Abaddon’s – though Yasamin does mention Balthazar stopping at his reliquary too before leaving.
I’ve not played the new fractal yet but I don’t think the original “need to stabilize” can be attributed to Arkk. Dessa explains in the lobby that stabilizing is the act of removing hostiles so that her team can study the fractal, but eventually the fractals reset (hostiles respawn) thus needing someone to rekill all hostiles. Hence why Dessa’s “massive instability” tends to refer to the fractal’s end boss.
I think it’s just meant to be a general champion of Kralkatorrik and is meant to portray the notion that Balthazar is hunting Kralkatorrik down for its magic and turning Elona into a burning wasteland to do so. It even looked like the cinematic showed two dragons to me.
also now a thing – balthazar have absorbed recently alot of dragonic magic – from both primordus and jormag – with primordus sharing very similar area of magical spectrums as balthazar – what if, it did not left our little god over there unaffected – and what if all 3 shots were representing – balthazar himself?
[or he slaughtered soem smaller dragon and made his head into new helmet for himself – also possible]
The helmet is definitely his old one, and the dragon that gets a spear through its head before being lit on fire has a completely different eye shape, nose shape, and horn shape.
It also starts out yellow and clearly crystalline before it is lit on fire (and has a spear punctured through its head).
Unless you mean the frontal shot of the dragon, which I think is also different (from both the spear-through-head dragon and Balthazar) – again, a very clear crystalline shard around its face, more circular rather than slit eyes like Balthazar, and before being lit up in flame, a gray-yellow skin tone.
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I don’t think a reason really is needed to be given for that. Not every single little tidbit should be explained. There is a simple fact we’re told: the Eye’s existence is tied to the existence of the mursaat. While we could be told why that fact exists, it doesn’t really need to because that explanation is unlikely to give us any additional knowledge.
This would not be the first time in which a magical enchantment is tied to the existence of an object or a person, and that with the person/object’s death/destruction, the enchantment fades away.
Cirian, Livia doesn’t join the heroes of GW1 until Eye of the North. So she’s not present for Khilbron/Shiro (killed 1072 AE), or Varesh/Abaddon (killed 1075 AE). She only helped with killing the Great Destroyer and the War in Kryta, in terms of canon lore. We could bring her for the rest but that isn’t really canon lore.
I’m not so sure. Firstly, in the Marjory short story, E had a masculine voice. Though that could be faked with magic, probably.
More telling, however, is the letters during Episode 4. E has contacts in the Order of Whispers (Anise is unlikely to have any, otherwise she wouldn’t need Canach in the Pact), has access to certain Shining Blade and Seraph figures (something Anise can/does have), a hatred for White Mantle (like Anise), doesn’t like others being anonymous in contact (never shown in Anise), but most importantly: E learned about the plot in Orphaned human PS by Caudecus and sent Salia and Mehid in. However, Salia and Mehid showed that they acted without Anise’s orders in the story.
As a rule, I tend not to trust anonymous letters, but I’m sending this note back with your bird because of the gravity of what you wrote. If what you say about a planned assassination and about the identity of the White Mantle Confessor is true, I can’t afford not to act. That being said, I’ll give you the same warning I give all new informants: I don’t like being toyed with. We’ll be watching the target to see if this assassination attempt actually comes to pass. If it does, I’ll consider the validity of the rest of your claim. And if it doesn’t, I’ll be forced to demonstrate just how seriously I take these matters. —E
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Master_of_Puppets
<Character name>: Hey, I found something. A list of names. Captain Thackeray, Countess Anise, a few others… Here’s my name, with a description: “Hero of Shaemoor, child of the queen’s spies”?
Exemplar Mehid: Grenth’s teeth, it’s a list of targets! Every name on here is one of the queen’s allies. If they managed to take out all these people…
<Character name>: We won’t let that happen. But first, I have to warn Captain Thackeray. I can’t let him face this danger alone. He may even be able to help us.
Exemplar Salia: You’re right. Anise won’t like us sharing information so recklessly, but this is an emergency. We’ll meet you at Captain Thackeray’s office. Stay safe.
-
Countess Anise: What were you thinking, bringing a civilian into this matter? Even…no, ESPECIALLY this one?
Exemplar Salia: I apologize, Master Exemplar. It was necessary—
Countess Anise: Enough. There are more urgent matters at hand. We’ll discuss this matter later.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rending_the_Mantle#At_Seraph_Headquarters
This shows that E has contacts high up in the Shining Blade – or may even be a Shining Blade member – but is unlikely to be Anise.
It’s actually pretty firmly established that the Eye of Janthir is heavily tied to the mursaat, since the days of Prophecies. While there has never been any direct confirmation of the “people of Janthir” being mursaat or not, the Eye of Janthir has always been 100% tied to the mursaat – first in being lent to the White Mantle, then overseeing a mursaat prison. And now gathering the aspects of Lazarus in "seeking out its masters". Nothing truly new here, except for the Eye’s ability to be autonomous, which was established at the end of Bastion of the Penitent.
Janthir was named back in Prophecies as part of lore, specifically of “where the Eye came from and why it is named that,” but we never knew where it was – we found out where it was in Guild Wars 2, and that was likely enough to name the isle (which was of big interest to players in GW1 when we got the expanded Eye of the North map that showed the full island). There was never any real indication we would ever go to Janthir, just player desire.
Kasmeer’s ability has nothing to do with the Gift of True Sight. She’s stated on multiple occasions that her ability is more talent for mundane lie detection (flinching of eyes, body movement, etc.) on a large number of occasions, only once or twice relating it to magic. The Gift of True Sight has only been related to 1) seeing souls trying to hide themselves from mortal sight, 2) seeing mursaat who’s “slipping partway into the Mists” seems related to if not the same as #1, and 3) seeing the potential for an individual being “Chosen” (i.e., seeing others who can gain the Gift of True Sight).
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To answer…
Firstly, we see the Eye disintegrate, the same way it disintegrated the doorway after we “proved ourselves worthy”. And Livia says that it is disappearing now that all mursaat are dead. Dialogue isn’t up on wiki yet though.
I also was not entirely sure that it was gone for good so I asked Linsey Murdock while she was in-game and she confirmed that it did disintegrate because of Lazarus’ death as Livia said.
It’s never been said who the people of Janthir were though so we cannot be sure if they were mursaat, or if the mursaat had usurped control then wiped out the people of Janthir, or even if they just usurped control without killing Janthir’s people and that lead to the Eye’s death with their death.
Balthazar is not trying to release magic into Tyria. He is trying to steal magic for himself. Huge difference.
Truthfully given what we know now, Abaddon was in the wrong because releasing magic into the world would have woken the Elder Dragons sooner. However, something you seem to miss is that all the gods were releasing magic into the world – Abaddon had just given the largest amount, which sparked wars. Abaddon’s rebellion wasn’t solely because of the amount of magic in the world, but also due to the actions of the Margonites and Forgotten:
The Margonites, then a human nation, had held Abaddon as their patron god and defaced statues of the other gods in the famous Temple of the Six along the Crystal Sea’s edge. Because of this, the Forgotten waged war with the Margonites, nearly wiping them out. Abaddon saved them and wiped out a bunch of Forgotten, and this drew the gods’ attention. Abaddon is also credit with wanting to have ruled the world, exiling or killing the other gods to do so, and waged war on the Gates of Heaven.
It wasn’t only about magic, that was just one of the many things that built up to the war and rebellion.
Also, what Balthazar is doing now is clearly being shown as not good for Tyria, so just because he’s now doing something “similar” (though not really) as Abaddon doesn’t mean Abaddon might’ve been in the right – it rather means Balthazar is now in the wrong, where he was in the right before.
Yeah, I feel there’s a bit too many statues in a bit too obvious a location for this. I think they could have done with just maybe one or two broken Abaddon statues at his reliquary (and a bunch within) instead.
There is the explanation that they couldn’t destroy the reliquary, and the shrines, but why not the statues alone?
But more importantly: there is a real Dessa and Arkk out there, somewhere, living or maybe dead.
You keep saying it’s a hint.
I’m not sure it’s a hint.
That’s my point.
Luckily I took screenshots. And my mistake, it’s a book that details an attempt by White Mantle spies and Livia’s actions to remove such from the Shining Blade, ending the note about her retirement and supposed death.
Still doesn’t seem to be a book written by the Shining Blade though, so it’s still reasonable to believe that her age is falsified given Livia’s situation, and the list of other Master Exemplars was a “piece of paper placed inside” not part of the book.
IIRC, the notes about Livia’s death and age were from White Mantle spies initially, so it would make sense that White Mantle spies at the time of her death (thus not alive when she took power) wouldn’t be aware of her actual age, and instead guess based on looks or how long they’ve known her to be around. I can easily see her age there chalked up as intentionally false, which isn’t something uncommon for Anet to do.
Especially given Livia’s long time youthful appearance.
She died only once on me. Just keep the aggro of the sparks and you’d be fine. The initial wave of sparks is the worst.
“Just keep the aggro of the sparks” – except there are no mechanics to do such. Even my Berzerker’s taunt didn’t get them to attack her more than the “Taunt” time before they went back to smacking Livia. I tried everything I could to get their attention – Bladetrail to try rounding them up on me before they made it to Livia, lots of melee cleaving the sparks with all my skills, Wild Blow and Stomp to force them off Livia – she still went down like a wet noodle.
I never had a problem. I was on my necro, just one attack on them and they focused on me. They do have their wide AoE attack but it’s a non-targeting one so it can’t do much harm against Livia (or you).
And then there’s the Shining Blade itself. Season 3 has had a trend of magical artifacts popping up everywhere without warning. It’s not necessarily a bad thing, but it’s not to my tastes, and it’s not something the franchise has done in the past. I found it a bit jarring that there was suddenly a literal blade, and the idea of Seers and mursaat killing each other with swords doesn’t sit quite right either. Minor nitpick; I only bring it up to note that there’s been a trend.
This isn’t actually new at all. In War in Kryta, we could obtain a weapon called Bartholos’ Shining Blade which used the Gothic Sword model.
The Exemplar’s Edge – aka Tier 1 Precursor for The Shining Blade – has an appearance very similar to said Gothic Sword model, and Bartholos’ Shining Blade (slightly different texture but same shape for hilt and blade).
I felt this was a nice call back to GW1 here.
And then the books. I’m always a fan of these reading collections, but this time the abundance of continuity errors, the repeats of previous text, and the general difficulty I had accessing them brought me down drastically.
I only ever saw one continuity error and that was Queen Salma being mentioned at Divinity’s Reach’s opening. Though there do seem to be a handful of date errors around Bartholos’ retirement (literally typing 8 instead of 7 for the decades digit), which is more of a typo than continuity error.
Why was the innermost chamber set up perfectly for bringing Lazarus back? Why did Balthazar carry an aspect of Lazarus all that way, just to leave it conveniently behind? Maybe the Eye catching up to him had something to do with it, but if so, it wasn’t communicated to us at all.
I don’t know if this is brought up in-game but I was talking with Linsey Murdock about it.
Regarding the room’s pedestals, she replied that there “wasn’t really a lore reason for it” so I guess that’s chalked up to “it looks cool”.
But regarding the aspect: Balthazar took it to Abaddon’s Reliquary for the specific purpose of locking it away. He figured that the last place anyone would look for it is in the locked vault of a dead god. Basically, he didn’t want Lazarus returning and thought that place was safe enough – and honestly, if it weren’t for the Eye of Janthir, it would have been.
The fact that there is some magical curse on me that stops me from working against Kryta is horribly wrong, especially as a charr.
That’s not what the oath does. It merely prevents you from talking about the secrets of the Shining Blade order. It doesn’t force one to work for Kryta, nor does it prevent one from working against Kryta – they just cannot tell anyone about the groups’ secrets.
Livia felt rushed and out of nowhere. It doesn’t really explain where she was during the numerous times Jennah was possibly going to die or Kryta was under serious threat
Livia’s lack of presence is actually explained well after we go through the Oath. She’s been hunting down the White Mantle / Lazarus for the past few years (first White Mantle, then Lazarus after his “return”).
That end cinematic has nothing to do with the prophecy.
The prophecy talked about in the trailer is actually about Lazarus' death at the hands of The Shining Blade weapon.
@Amaimon: No, she doesn’t. Livia has stepped down from leadership in 1157 AE, there’s been four Master Exemplars since then. She follows Anise’s orders, though barely.
@BuddhaKeks: So in Edge of Destiny, when Zojja and Snaff were compared as father and daughter, that means that they were actually father and daughter?
The comparison is made because that’s how they act. People having father figures – or mother figures – is a very common thing. Especially (but definitely not solely) if the person didn’t know or hated their biological father or mother. The PC was ultimately just commenting on how, despite the fact Anise was leader, she often differed to Livia’s judgment.
That’s hardly a red herring.
I don’t think they look similar at all. Livia is dark olive skin with dark red hair, Anise is pale skin with auburn hair. She looks more Ascalonian. Wouldn’t be impossible if Anise’s father is Ascalonian but honestly I find it unlikely. Also unlikely for Livia to have a kid after so long. She would have had to met one hell of a guy for her to want a family after two centuries of living.
I don’t recall Livia asking not to talk about it for anyone’s sake – her’s or another’s. She merely replied with saying the Shining Blade was her family afair.
She died only once on me. Just keep the aggro of the sparks and you’d be fine. The initial wave of sparks is the worst.
Okay, I just went trhough it and of course: Spoilers
- New Orr area is interesting. Didn’t have much time to explore, but it seems like Balthazar was always a danger, according to the ghosts? Was our view on him over thousands of years so wrong?
So Balthazar threw away Honor before the Exodus of the Gods then(explains why the Canthan myths mention a general lack of sportsmanship from Balthazar with Kaolai being the exception to this). The Zaishen Order was deceived the whole time.
The ghost at Balthazar’s shrine doesn’t talk about him pre-Exodus, but post. And even then, that’s not talking about honor but “feed his enemies to the lava”. And there has been a long standing view of Balthazar being a “burn his enemies in rightous flames” kind of guy from the beginning. That ghost changes nothing – nor did the Priest in DR.
The one at Lyssa’s mentions that his followers caused wars – nothing about honor or lack thereof there. And that’s just saying his followers tend to be wreckless and brawling. Which isn’t too surprising, as those who would prefer to fight and kill folks would naturally go to a god of war even if the god’s teachings of war differ from their own.
I have my many misgivings about the season in general,
but I rather like this release in particular. The only flaws I really see is two very important plots not being tied up:
I watched the chapter play out, and Livia's characterization was one of the most insufferable yet. Your character rolls their eyes at it a couple of times at least, which is nice, but for the most part it seems like you’re supposed to accept it as heroic.
I’m just gonna toss the whole response here in a spoiler tag…
Do you even remember Livia? Her personality? There was a bit (well, a lot) more sass in the character, but it was never presented – she was never presented – as heroic.
So you say you have to question the morality of heroes. Livia has ALWAYS been a questionable morality. When we first met her she was willingly sacrificing her soldier’s to Gadd’s experiments for the sake of getting his help against the White Mantle. The entire premise of her character has been “will do whatever it takes to safeguard Kryta”, this means at the cost of a few sacrifices, this means at the cost of herself both in mind and body.
They portrayed Livia’s original character perfectly. Untrusting of others, willing to sacrifice, a definite moral gray. She was even this way in Sea of Sorrows. This was perhaps the most true to GW1 parts of this game to date.
And still they gave her an update to her personality – she’s a got a lot more sarcasm and sass than before (she always had some, but less so), and is a bit more hostile to her centuries long enemies.
What kind of a threat was Lazarus at this point anyway? His people used to be a threat because there was a lot of them and they conspired to manipulate things in their favor. He’s just one person who never did much to begin with, and he couldn’t until this episode anyway, and only because the hero’s actions.
Actually this is untrue.
Lazarus was one of the three that cemented the White Mantle’s control over Kryta, for starters, and was one of the three most powerful known mursaat.
The mursaat were not a threat due to numbers, but due to their malicious nature and their individual raw strength (namely their invisibility and their spectral agony).
Even a mere seven of mursaat were a major threat during War in Kryta. And that was when heroes who could see the mursaat, and methods to fight them, were more modern and not ancient history. One mursaat can do a lot of damage especially when folks are not prepared.
Caudecus was a much bigger threat to Kryta than someone who had been sealed away and had no more allies (even the White Mantle hated Lazarus by this point), where was Livia then?
The White Mantle did not hate Lazarus. It was rather that there was a schism between the devout and those who were merely power hungry.
Also, I felt like the reveal for Livia was tailored to counter speculation about Anise, but all it did was make it feel more weird. Why have this running thing about Anise being way older than she appears and her trying to keep some questionable actions on the down low, when it’s actually a completely different, entirely new Shining Blade member who has that backstory. That’s dramatically strange, to say the least.
Never heard of red herrings?
Finally, the ending was a big letdown compared to last time. Last time we had a huge build-up and a direct lead-in. This time we got a vision that was way too vague for me to understand or care (was quite surprised to see the player character be so confident about what they got from it), and then (what felt like an ad) teasing the real tease. It felt contrived because the chapter itself was essentially Livia's personal vendetta that hijacks the plot, with you only essentially only getting back on track as a reward for helping. The actual plots we were dealing with didn’t really get a climax in the climactic episode.
I actually like this much more. The cinematic was a bit fast pace, but it was clear what it was showing: dragons being hunted down by an army blessed by fire, pyramids and Elonian buildings being toppled and destroyed in a raging inferno, and <s>Ares</s> Balthazar looking over his shoulder at us.
At the same time, the cinematic was simple enough as to not give us false promises like the teaser for HoT did with its show of a sylvari civil war, of humans assaulting Canach in DR, of Faolain fighting against the Pact as herself. So I rather liked it. It was epic still, but restrained enough that it gave us no wrong impression. It’s message was straightforward: War in Elona.
The final fight felt a bit easy, but I am a better player than most, having enjoyed the pre-nerf Caudecus fight for example. So I won’t say much there, I did enjoy it though.
This release also served to fully cement the plot that this season 3 opened with: Lazarus. From the raids to now, half of the plot’s focus (more than half, really), has been Lazarus. And this feels like a proper send off for the character. Revived, battled an ancient enemy, and slain by a sword of Seer origins.
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Well, this release just proved two of my theories right:
First that Lazarus was not out of the picture with the reveal of Balthazar.
Second that Anise is not Livia.
Though I was wrong about Livia not becoming younger due to the Scepter of Orr.
@BuddhaKeks:
Livia says she has no bloodline (though this may have been a lie to deceive Lazarus). The PC compares Anise and Livia’s relation like a child to parent, but Livia denies it, saying “all of Shining Blade is my family” (paraphrasing).
(edited by Konig Des Todes.2086)
What I find interesting is that dragons usually go to sleep when their belly is full of magic. Does that mean Primordus and Jormag actually consumed the magic? Wiki points out, that dragons wake up when they are weak, when the magic is out of their system.
That’s a common misconception, actually.
They go to sleep when there is no more magic to eat. It’s the lack of food that causes their slumber normally, not their bellies being full. Similar to a bear going into hibernation for a winter.
Furthermore, when Elder Dragons wake, they must first consume nearby magic or have a champion feed them magic so that they have the strength to fully rise. This is why Jormag needed Drakkar, or Primordus needing the Great Destroyer. Without their champion, it takes an extra 50 years roughly to rise (hence Primordus and Kralkatorrik’s delayed awakenings).
Primordus and Jormag were both drained of their own magic, and struck with harmful magic that they presumably could not absorb – hence why Primordus’ power had subsided to pre-awakening levels.
In guild wars dragons seem more like entities than real physical flying things. They have minions that do the job for them. I wonder why couldn’t the dragon just do it all by itself?
For example, why couldn’t Zhaitan just fly over Claw Island himself and devoured us all when we were weak? Or when we killed his generals? Seems like he just can’t leave his domain where he reigns. Maybe the further away it gets from it’s awakening place the weaker it gets?
Why do something yourself when you have thousands of minions who could do it for you?
As shown by Jormag, Primordus, and Kralkatorrik leaving one’s territory would not weaken the Elder Dragon. I think Zhaitan’s decision to remain in Orr rather than act himself deals more with its unique personality – and yes, though the Elder Dragons don’t get showcased directly often, we can still see all five known EDs having unique personalities, goals, and preference of corruption. In Zhaitan’s case, he seemed to desire an eternal kingdom to rule over, fancying himself a dragon king of sorts. And how often does a king bother to deal with the enemy peasantry themselves?
(edited by Konig Des Todes.2086)
That’s just part of the Victory or Death unique map (formerly Arah story mode) where you fight the Mouth of Zhaitan. That_shaman added it (as well as Zhaitan’s spire and Citadel of Flames, Labyrinthine Cliffs, Sanctum Sprint, and Aetherblade Retreat) to his maps and that got uploaded to the wiki.
Technically we’re not sure they’re asleep. Primordus is weakened to the same level of strength he had while asleep, but that doesn’t necessarily mean he is asleep. And we’re not even sure how much Jormag has been weakened, we only have Taimi’s speculation that he’s asleep “too”.
I do think that putting two of the three more interesting dragons on the proverbial bus would be a bad move, especially without exploring them more. Zhaitan and Mordremoth should have been the ones fought indirectly – who needs more plants and zombies anyways.
I mean the name itself points to the wars of guilds. So really, we shouldn’t even be fighting dragons, but other guilds.
The first game had warring guilds, technically.
Dragon Age isn’t really about fighting dragons, ironically it’s about warring factions (kind of makes it feel like the two series had reversed names).
Aurus Trevess tells us that the follower*s* of Dhuum gathered at the Foundry of Failed Creations under the Fury’s demands. Within, there are only Margonites, titans, and only a couple Dream Riders/Dryders alongside the Fury. That’s rather insignificant amount of “followers of Dhuum” beneath the Fury (literally four, if memory serves me right) if it does not include the titans.
The Fury is also the one and only individual ever attributed with creating titans – if the titans were followers of Abaddon, then we’d likely be also seeing some Margonites creating them elsewhere.
(edited by Konig Des Todes.2086)
The shrine of the traitors is actually in the domain of pain, in the center of the Battlements of Bec’qessor. Not the domain of secrets.
Regarding the Abaddon statues – I only count 6, tops, and that definitely is where the two-statue shot is at (you can tell by some of the broken pillars going down).
I doubt that’s a temple, too small compared to the rest of the Orrian temples and we’ve seen his. But yeah, hopefully they’ll explain why there’s yet another case of Abaddon knowledge when such should have been wiped out…
Fixing forum bug…?
As shown by Arah explorable, dragon minions (especially risen) remain bound by the dragon’s will (ergo lacking free will – even dragon champions) post-Elder Dragon’s death.
The only risen that will show free will are those which have been put under the Forgotten ritual that freed Glint. It should be noted, however, that giving a dragon minion free will does not guarantee that it will change how it acts – Glint still served Kralkatorrik for a time after being freed until she began to sympathize with those who’s thoughts she was hearing.
Given that her telepathy with non-dragon minions is unique to her (per Hidden Arcana) it would be very unlikely for non-mindless risen (or other dragon minions) to immediately change their way just because they have free will again. And those that are mindless, like our risen chicken experiment in Arah explorable, would be more akin to pets then to individual beings.
You know, I always found this page that was made on the wiki to be utterly stupid…
But since people seem to think there was ever only one prophecy foretold in Tyria, I guess it’s now found a use.
There are hundreds of prophecies. The line in the trailer does not refer to the Flameseeker Prophecies.
TL;DR
No, she was not. She made them, after all. She saw the events happen herself.
What we’re dealing with is a new prophecy. Likely the “Glint’s Legacy” prophecy that involves Aurene and defeating the Elder Dragons that the Forgotten pushed for.
TL;DR
They didn’t.
Long version:
Two Elder Dragons are still 100% awake and active, Kralkatorrik and the DSD. Jormag is not confirmed to be asleep nor severely weakened, at this point it is merely a hypothesis on both Taimi’s and the players’ part. Primordus is technically also not confirmed to be asleep yet, as we were only told by the scanner that it is power weakened to pre-awakening levels, so it may have just went to sleep.
In addition to that, even if they are asleep now, Jormag and Primordus still have hundreds of active dragon minions in the world who could gather magic to help raise them back to a wakening state like Drakkar did and the Great Destroyer attempted. We may still find ourselves fighting these two Elder Dragons as a threat, just not directly (like we did in Eye of the North).
One thing that is not mentioned by draxynnic is that based on dialogue we know that the Door of Komalie remained closed for 3 years, even though Khilbron’s soul was now in the Realm of Torment. Whether this means the magical seal was kept, or the volcano covered and prevented access, is unclear.
And a comment to prevent potential confusion: the titans are Dhuum’s merely lent to Abaddon to serve as advance troops, rather than being Abaddon’s advance troops.
Also, there’s been no known case of soul batteries being used to keep the Door of Komalie sealed / in the White Mantle’s sacrifices, so they’ve probably not touched it for the past 250 years.
I would argue the Realm of Torment would be a terrible place for such a monument, because until shortly before Nightfall (exact timeframe unknown), the Forgotten – faithful servants to the five – were in control over the entire realm, all the Margonite cities and structures and used them as prisons.
So unless the shrine was very, very recent, this would basically be putting up a neon sign saying “Balthazar’s on my team, love Abaddon.”
Correction on that, Trejgon: The Scepter of Orr had the power to control all things spiritual (just as the Staff of the Mists could control all things physical).
We’re not sure the Scepter of Orr could control undead because it was Khilbron who told us this – but he was already controlling those undead as the undead lich. Telling us “undead yield to the Scepter of Orr’s power” could be truth, or blatant lies to disguise the fact he was the lich leading the undead from the beginning.
However, we ourselves use the Scepter of Orr to guide a lost soul, and Khilbron uses it to control the souls (no undead bodies involved) of recently-slain White Mantle (something even a powerful necromancer would be hard pressed to do – controlling the souls of your enemies instantly).
Now, whether or not Khilrbon lied about the controlling undead part, the vast majority of risen are soulless (as proven to us by Romke and his crew, and that one Vigil crusader in Mount Maelstrom). While wraiths do seem to be corrupted souls, it’s questionable if this is so – they could easily just be corrupted skeletons (or part skeletons) and the rest is just magical glow no relation to souls (unfortunately the nature of wraiths are never explained).
Second issue with the theory of “risen controlled by the Scepter of Orr” is that despite the misnomer used by NPCs, risen are not undead. They are dragon minions, which are fundamentally different. Not all risen even come from corpses – some are living beings corrupted. As such, no manner of controlling undead – which are by default shambling masses of corpses bound to a master’s will or to the bound soul’s will until the death of the master or release of the soul – can control risen – which, like all dragon minions, are by default merely some manner of material (90% of the time being corpses) that is bound to their Elder Dragon’s will and even if they have a soul is bound to Elder Dragon’s will and will remain bound to Elder Dragon’s will even with said Elder Dragon’s death.
More likely, IMO, for the blue wraith to be imbued with Jormag magic, like we see destroyers turning green and black when imbued with Zhaitan’s magic. While Jormag may still live, his non-corruptive magic was shot across the continent in a beam – as was Primordus’ – so there’s a chance that some got scattered and picked up by dragon minions.
Also, about “the last owner of the Scepter of Orr” – it isn’t Livia. We know she had it for a time, but we also know that she no longer had it by the time of Sea of Sorrows, over 70 years prior to GW2. Most likely scenario is it being in either the Shining Blade’s hands or the Durmand Priory’s.
@Konig: Also technically speaking, the Shrine of the Traitors description comes from a datamine and is no more canon than Arachnia is.
True, however, we actually see a series of statues of Balthazar, blackened and never aflame, within a Margonite stronghold. We also know of eternals turned betrayer, though Abaddon is never (elsewhere) presented as the cause.
So both the shrine, and the act described (in part) happened, unlike what we can say for Arachnia.
Furthermore, Virashak’s information could have been coming from Balthazar’s deception. However, the fact that Torment Demons and Shadow Army never fight suggests to me that we’re not looking at a ‘the Shadow Army was there to hinder Abaddon rather than to help him’ scenario, unless they were playing a longer game than Tyria had time for.
The first part requires for Balthazar to have pretended to be an ally at that time, but the presented idea is that Balthazar was not for some time, isn’t it? Contradictory then.
We also see Shadow Army alongside Margonites in the Domain of Secrets, I believe, or very close by – without fighting.
Indeed, Balthazar’s avatar was there in that cinematic.
Also about Abaddon and Balthazar potentially being allied during Nightfall:
Mocking shrine to the Eternals of Balthazar who have been corrupted by Abaddon.
https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Shrine_of_the_Traitors
Why would Abaddon twist his allies’ minions and then mock the act?
And as for Menzies’ forces working with Abaddon’s:
“This vast plane of shadow is plagued by torment creatures. Demons lurk within the repressive darkness, waiting to step through rifts that give them passage to Elona, Tyria, and beyond. Within these dark confines Balthazar’s accursed half-brother Menzies has staged his forces. With Abaddon defeated, they turn now to fight alongside Mallyx the Unyielding in desperation.”
https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Virashak
They “turn now” to fight along Mallyx with Abaddon’s defeat, and work alongside torment demons too.
The line about the prophecy is what’s talked about, yes?
That sounded a bit like the Glint revenant skills to me. Which doesn’t match GW1’s Glint voice, mind you.
The last line sounded like generic human female bandit NPCs to me, in a disinterested manner.
Also the god that stayed behind is the god who wasn’t part of the Exodus. Kormir. And our unlikely ally will be Joko.
Livia is insanely powerful and extremely long lived.
Nothing actually says Livia is powerful let alone “insanely powerful”. In the Sea of Sorrows novel, she doesn’t actually use any magic IIRC.
Is that voice in the beginning Brahm lecturing us?
No, it’s the male norn PC.
(edited by Konig Des Todes.2086)
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