Guild Wars 2

That quote does nothing to state of Cantha’s naval abilities other than it was able to sail north. Obviously this was already capable since people had already sailed north, Luxons had existed, and most likely Margonites did too.

Lore newer than Ermenred’s little essay on Cantha indicate that those in Tyria were never that primitive – and one can’t really say such when Fahranur was built within five years of those “primitive” tribes landing on Elona, or with Orr/Arah established around that time as well.

I fail to see the relevance of the history lesson on Europe.

Actually, most ships in Kryta are Orrian, those in the Shiverpeaks are Stone Summit, and those ships in Cantha are Crimson Skull. Those in Elona are mostly Kournan or Istani. This all determined by the emblem on the sails. There are also a handful of captains with Ascalonian models – I don’t think you can count the guild ambassadors as “captains” of ships, even if they’re always located on one.

Kaineng has need of multiple ports due to how large the city – and its coast – is. Kryta has a fairly small coast, only being Lion’s Arch, D’Alessio Seaboard, and Gates of Kryta area. There’s Port Sledge in the Shiverpeaks. There’s not much water for ports to the Shiverpeaks, and there’s none for Ascalon. Istan has multiple docks as well – Consulate Docks, Sun Docks, Kamadan, some in Zelon Reach, and some in the Keys (forgot name, starts with an M). Kourna has 2 major ones, one being Gandara.

Kaineng has 3 docks on the mainland and 3 on Shing Jea Island – two of the latter are controlled by pirates.

So I’m not seeing Cantha as a naval military power due to the amount of commerce ships being Canthan, or the amount of docks.

Also: Who says Canthans even know of Zhaitan? The Unending Ocean is a big place, and if no sailors ever return from their voyages – and knowledge of krait and pirates harrowing ships is well known – then how can they know of Zhaitan? They might know of the DSD, if it’s pushing south/southeast/southwest (depending on where it is), but even then who says they’re fighting it.

Also, three destinations? The Battle Isles are sunk. Elona they very well may be trading with for all we know. Where else is there? There’s no other land between Cantha and Orr but Elona after Zhaitan’s rise.

And I think I know who you’re referring to for the Whispers member – the human prefector (forgot his name). However, unless I’m missing something it’s never confirmed he’s Canthan. My character asks him if he’s from Kryta – he starts with “no” then goes “oh wait, the human kingdom? yes, yes!” to which my character responded “You don’t look Elonian. Canthan?” and he went “that’s need to know” – in short, it’s highly implied he’s Canthan, but never confirmed, let alone that he’s Luxon (again, unless I’m missing something you can elaborate for me?).

Also, the name is likely to have him blend in with Krytans – which in GW1 had some Spanish names occasionally.

Well, there’s the name (which follows other naming patterns of outposts built atop Ascalonian ruins), and I’m pretty sure there were ruins there. But then again, iirc, wasn’t Steeleye Span said to have been built atop Ranik during the first Gamescom with the demos?

I think you misunderstood me Shael. The NPC is a female charr in the Priory. The last dwarf she talked about was Ogden. She never contradicts all the dwarves turning to stone – it just sounds like all of them sans Ogden has died fighting destroyers.

Zesbeer, there actually are Fort Ranik ruins. The place was renovated by charr and is now called Fort Kinar (charr aren’t much on unique names).

When’s this said?

Hickeroar.9734:

Which OoW attack are you talking about?

Level 55 storyline ends with the Pale Tree stating your order’s base is about to be attacked. Who you go defend depends on your order, but all three get attacked.

Ritualists were probably the origin to guardian weapon spriits. Just as Elona had spread their teachings after Nightfall, it’s possible that Cantha did the same. And just as paragons spread more than dervishes, assassins likely spread more than ritualists.

Also keep in mind the purpose behind these professions. In Cantha, ritualists guide souls. This job is done by necromancers in Tyria and Elona (unlike in Cantha where they’re to maintain balance between life and death). In Elona, dervishes are wayward priests – in Tyria and Cantha, monks are wayward just as much as not (unlike in Elona).

Silvaria, it’s said repeatedly that the Nightmare cannot be cured (that’s actually one of the main points to that storyline). Furthermore, it taints the Dream of Dreams and the entire purpose of the Nightmare Court is to taint the Pale Tree herself – if they were to have brought Ysvelta to the Pale Tree, they’re risking allowing the NC to do what they wish: corrupt the Pale Tree.

Legion.4198:

Koning de Todes

1) The Deep Sea Dragon is heavily implied via quaggan, krait, and largos lore to be in the Unending Ocean – not near Cantha.

You should check the maps again. The Unending Ocean is the biggest body of water on the planet and connects all the continents. Unlike the other Dragons, The Deep Sea Dragon can extend its influence all over the world in any continent it wishes and can change its base of operations. Since Cantha is a traditional naval power, it only makes sense to cast him as the main supernatural enemy of the empire.

You should try to realize my meaning. The DSD is said to be in the deepest part of a sea. The krait, pushed out by an “underwater dragon,” lived in the deepest trenches of the Unending Ocean.

The deepest parts of bodies of water are almost never near coastal lands.

Also, please provide a source saying Cantha’s a naval power. I have never seen such.

mercury ranique.2170:

One of the races that fought the dragon’s then where the margonites (before becomming Abadon’s minions). They where afaik the race that dominated the seas during the last awakening and most evidence point in the direction that humans didn’t even existed then so let alone the empire.

Uh, no. The only races known to have fought the Elder Dragons were the Forgotten, dwarves, seers, mursaat, and jotun. It’s implied kodan, krait, and tengu may have been around at that time, but that’s unconfirmed.

Margonites were humans that were transformed by Abaddon. So you just contradicted yourself as well.

Legion.4198:

The Canthans have been an Empire that has not only has existed as an unified entity since even before the rest of humanity even arrived to the planet, but also knew about their arrival and could have easily conquered them. Cantha had already well developed Deep Sea navigation even when the Charr dominated Ascalon. The existene of a previous seafaring race doesn’t change this fact.

Second, we have news of Canthan sailors washing ashore on Tyria. Thus proving that the Empire is more than willing to extend its influence far from their mainland. Either the Empire has domains and renewed trade threatened by the DSD or has changed its isolationist policies for one of expansionism and conquest. Whoever controls the seas can dominate and extend its influence all over the world and controls the access to international oversea markets.

Finally, the races of Tyria have lost all the experience in open sea for a hundred years. The Tyrian fleets pose no threat to the DSD. If the DSD begins to threaten cities like Lion’s Arch, Rata Sum, the Domain of the Winds, and the coast of Tyria, we will need someone who hasn’t lost this knowledge.

I’d seriously like to know where you’re getting these “facts.”

Cantha existed prior to humans on continental Tyria and Elona, but nothing states they’re the oldest human civilization – in fact, it’s highly implied that they aren’t. Furthermore, they all came from somewhere, and nothing implies they came directly from the Mists.

Where do you get that Cantha had developed “deep sea navigation” prior to when the charr took over Ascalon? First of all, no human has – to our knowledge – explored the deepest parts of ocean. Second of all, we don’t know when the charr took over Ascalon.

Sailors washing ashore doesn’t mean they’re with the Empire – they could be refugees or outlaws just as easily as they can be sailing under the emperor’s orders.

Krait, quaggan, and largos are all heavily implied to have fled from the DSD. And the largos are equally implied to be fighting – or intending to return to fighting shortly – in their homelands, said to be the deepest oceans that has become filled with horrors.

Not all icebrood are made by the Dragonspawn.

Jormag and his champions corrupt via mental abilities – so they can, seemingly, only create icebrood out of living beings. Though there’s actual corrupted ice so that may not be the case.

Tyloric.7520:

If Grenth were regulating the undead (and in Zhaitan’s case, it would surprise me if he was trying), he may just be unable to completely hold that power back.

Funny you mention this, because very late into the personal story, this is actually implied.

One of Grenth’s faithful died during the Cataclysm and his soul is controlled/imprisoned by Zhaitan – the guy’s a risen. During this personal story step you’re calling upon Grenth for aid, and The Seventh Reaper appears – the deal is that the PC will get the knowledge they seek if they return the risen follower to Grenth since he was “taken” – the Reaper can’t because he was weakened for an unknown reason.

Tyloric.7520:

As for the other gods, I am unsure, but I do know that Balthazar was the first human to be made a god, and (much) later Kormir took Abbadon’s place.

I demand a source because lore states him as the second god to have arrived from the Mists (following Dwayna and followed by Melandru).

Tar.2894:

I would like to know if Tyria is really aware of the Deep Sea Dragon and they just don’t mention him because he isn’t a direct threat (yet) like the others, or if they simply don’t know about him.

Most of Tyria doesn’t know of the DSD.

Decimus seems to have information, but it was said in an interview with Jeff Grubb to be a topic of debate.

Lore on quaggan, krait, and largos imply that the DSD is in the Unending Ocean and the cause to their retreat into Tyria (at least the cause to krait and largos – quaggans were (mostly) pushed by krait).

The Inquest also seem to know about the DSD – around the Crucible of Eternity dungeon there’s that six-pointed structure, four of which are directly related to an ED. There’s a “Zone Blue (under construction)” with a pool of water in it too. The sixth point is supposedly for the sixth Elder Dragon we know even less about – only the Durmand Priory knows there are six dragons (and seemingly Inquest too), which they learned from jotun history (now, whether they know there are still at least five dragons – that’s unknown).

There’s no direct lore – at least none that was found yet. But two organizations know of six ED – at least.

mercury ranique.2170:

Perhaps (all speculation here) cause Arenanet has concrete plans for 4 gw2 expansions, each with an elder dragon to defeat.

I really really hope this isn’t the case. Fighting 1 dragon per expansion would just be dull, in my opinion. Especially if the dragon is either at the beginning or the end. I’d rather have the first expansion deal with 2 or 3 Elder Dragons. And if you ask me, that’s highly possible. In GW2, I have found paths leading towards the Crystal Desert/Elon River, Dominion of Winds/Sea of Sorrows, and Maguuma Wastes – along with this, there’s some implications that folks are wanting to tackle Jormag second. This leads me to believe that there are already plans for heading into those four regions (earlier three and Far Shiverpeaks). Primordus is implied via the drying of the Maguuma Jungle’s northern half (becoming the Maguuma Wastes) to be related to that area, so he may have moved there.

Along with this, I believe that tengu and largos are being built up for future playable races (tengu are following a similar route to charr – having a select few interactable with players while the rest aren’t in order to elaborate on their view bit by bit – and largos similar to sylvari – a new race introduced with glimpses at their society before the full view is shown), and that the bandits/White Mantle and Joko are going to be involved with the Maguuma and Desert respectively as well. There’s also Malyck from the sylvari storyline giving implications of going further west (into the Magus Falls).

Yata.8932:

I didn’t mind the end too much, I just didn’t feel like i was in any danger at all while we were pew pewing him since we had cleared all the mobs off of the deck first. I think maybe some of us were supposed to shoot while the rest handled the mobs so it felt a bit more chaotic, but the big bad himself doesn’t actually attack so we just let him sit there while we killed his minions. /shrug

In other words, there’s 2 solution routes (both can be used)

Endless, but perhaps fewer, mobs (maybe regular (read: non-silver circle) mobs – depending on amount).
Give Zhaitan some more attacks.

Legion.4198:

But the Canthan Empire is a naval power. Thus any kind of supernatural entity threatening Canthan ships would be a major threat to the Empire. Tyria even see sporadic Canthan sailors washing ashore on Maguuma jungle which would indicate that the Empire is more than willing to wage war agains this DSD.

Where is it stated Cantha’s a naval power? The only nation ever to be called a naval power to my memory is Istan.

And sporadic sailors can be many things more than waging war with the DSD:
-Cantha’s trying to make trade with the northern continent again
-There are still refugees fleeing from Cantha
-Cantha’s just trying to find out why their sailors keep disappearing.
-Pirates.

@Grizzly: The books are definitely not targets at younger audiences. In fact, I’d say they’re targeted for older (decapitations, grisly self-moving limbs, undead bodies being ground to goo), but not by much.

I enjoyed both novels, though Edge of Destiny is – plot wise – far lesser. Neither is outright needed to learn the main plot, though they do give insights on other things, especially Ghosts of Ascalon.

I’ve never read Wheel of Time or Song of Ice and Fire, so I can’t compare, but as Curuniel said, they’re not high literature. GoA is certainly better than most game-based novels though.

We were told that each Elder Dragon corrupts differently, and that destroyers are corrupted land… Logically, Primordus shouldn’t be capable (or shouldn’t prefer) to corrupt living beings. There’s no such evidence he can or has other than that one line you give.

Makes me think your mentor’s a little off on her money – which she is a tad crazy.

Edge of Destiny describes the creation process of destroyers fairly well, imo. The Destroyer of Life is standing guard over a pool of lava, where rocks are slowly drawn together to form destroyers. Kind of like some sort of creation vat. Which is indirectly seen in GW1, when destroyers rise from the lava around the Great Destroyer.

@Davelid: They all use the same animation, but it was said that Primordus creates destroyers in mockery of living creatures. If you look closely, there’s no way a Destroyer Troll or Destroyer Harpy could have once been a living troll or harpy. Not unless their bodies became rock and now lack any kind of flesh and bones.

Actually, those two are memorials, not graves. One’s to Langmar, Keiran, and Gwen, then there’s Gwen’s grave, and then there’s one to all members of the Ebon Vanguard who have fallen.

So Keiran – as far as we know – doesn’t have a grave. He may have died in the wilderness, no body recovered.

Keziah.2653:

Keep in mind that you can’t actually KILL an Elder Dragon. You can only defeat them (as in, they go back to sleep to reawaken another time — check the GW2 wiki). They are, after all, older than the gods of Tyria. I’m thinking mortals CAN’T kill them… just maybe knock ’em out for a few centuries or so.

The wiki’s out of date ever since the game was released.

Nothing says the Elder Dragon’s can’t be killed, just that – to our knowledge – they haven’t prior to Zhaitan. And he gets killed.

@Eeeeee: Remember the personal story? Once you land on Orr, you’re doing nothing but weakening him. By the time you fight him, he’s weak – very much so. Weaker than when he rose Orr. His means to create undead crippled, his means of eating is gone. He’s literally starved by the time we get to him – you try fighting a swarm of birds while starved. Kinda the same thing.

Though I haven’t fought him yet so I don’t know how lame this fight is. I think I’ll give it a few more weeks before I do too, just in case he gets buffed. Just so long as I’m not hacking away at toenails to kill him.

@Emma: No, please. It’s sometimes hard enough to get 5 folks on at the same time from my guilds or friends list. I’d rather not have to get 10 or, worse, 20 people to do Arah – story or explorable mode.

Elunarie.9283:

I have seen several things that point to Zhaitan as the first to actually awaken.

-Before the Destroyers were active, we had the Flameseeker Prophecies and Vizier Khilbron (who as we know, was the Lich and commanded ‘Orrian’ undead – IE he was a dragon champion?). Titans and Destroyers are very similar in nature; perhaps they are the same and the Vizier was hastening the awakening of Primordus at the behest of his master (Zhaitan?).

-The sinking of Orr was, according to the cutscene for a certain GW2 dungeon, the event that awoke Zhaitan. As we know the sinking of Orr occurred well before Primordus stirred.

-Orrian undead have been in Kryta since well before the start of the Flameseeker Prophecies.

1) Titans are 100% unrelated to Elder Dragons. They are created from tormented souls – you can go to their present home during GW1 in Nightfall: the Foundry of Failed Creations.

2) Jeff Grubb stated in an interview with GuildMag that the Cataclysm had no affect on Zhaitan. If you’re talking about the Arah dungeon cutscene, there was no mention of the Cataclysm waking Zhaitan (that I recall at least). It talked about the history of Arah and Orr. Also, if Zhaitan woke up during the Cataclysm (1071 AE), why did he wake up again and rise to the surface 100 years later?

3) Nothing links the Prophecies undead to Zhaitan’s risen. The only real argument there is would be Khilbron’s appearance. However, there’s indication he was a corrupt necromancer ever since Zoran’s reign (that, or Orr had a series of corrupt necromancer viziers) – see the Shards of Orr dungeon in Eye of the North.

Sajuuk Khar.1509:

PopeUrban.2578:

snip

Actually
-Abbadon only made the titans after he was imprisoned, Abbadon made the Margonites before he went all evil though.

[…]

-[…]The Door of Komalie was made by the Mursaat, and powered by the soul batteries.

[…]

-The Mursaat wanted to keep the titans contained because they knew of Glint’s Flameseeker prophecies, and knew that the Titans were the only things that could kill them off.

Corrections:
- The Titans are as old as the forgotten. Though they’re tied to Dhuum, not Abaddon (in Nightfall, they’re controlled/commanded by/created by The Fury, a general of Dhuum in alliance with Abaddon and later Mallyx).

-We don’t know the origins of the Door of Komalie, however the seal around it was mursaat made. The Door of Komalie itself is the portal that looks like a tear in the fabric of reality.

-The players technically killed most mursaat off (read The Flameseeker Prophecies – the journal of the PC in GW1 – the titans via Khilbron’s orders just “finished the job” (while leaving at least 8 alive)).

PopeUrban.2578:

I’m saying that it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck so I’m calling it a duck. That massive degree of similarity can’t be a coincidence by the art team we’re talking about. Same wingies, same bizarre markings, same skin tone, we never actually met a “female” seer, and the dimensions on those water wingies are perfectly sized to be wrapped around the body and latched with their tiny hands in the same manner as the Seers we’ve met.

For all we know seer males do the mysticism and seer females do all the fighting and assassinating.

Also, the facemask is suspicious for a native underwater species, and the character in question is… lets say not trustworthy.

Seers lack the wing design (they have some “fin” like stuff, but it’s nothing even close to similar). Largos eyes don’t glow like seer eyes (male largos’ eyes glowing is caused by the mask, given that female eyes don’t glow). Seers are, as said already, genderless while largos are not. Voices sound completely different – as if largos have a breathing apparatus (probably for breathing air given their aquatic nature). Seers have four arms and are a black/dark gray skin tone, whereas largos have 2 arms and are a light blue skin tone (the skin texture is also vastly different from seers). Male largos fight just as much as female largos.

And what do you mean by “bizzare thingies”? I see nothing similar between them other than the male largos’ glowing blue eyes.

Also, the seer sounds more feminine than masculine. Though, again, they’re genderless.

And let’s not forget the most important facts:
1) Seers were mostly wiped out.

2) Largos are fighting Elder Dragons too, current day. In the past, seers fought them and won with other races. If the seer and largos were the same race, they’d share that knowledge.

At most, they’re cousin species. But that’s still stretching it, imo.

Yata.8932:

Where is this stated Killul? I’m not attacking I’m curious as i haven’t seen or heard this anywhere before.

It was a video interview with Jeff and Ree. Don’t have the link on me sadly.

At the end of the personal story, an NPC states there’s only one dwarf left – she’s a member of the Durmand Priory.

So it’s unlikely there will be more dwarves in an expansion.

@Karast: I really hope we don’t get 1 expansion for 1 dragon (or rather, I hope we don’t focus on only one dragon per expansion). I’m personally hoping we get 2 or 3 dragons in the first expansion (Kralk, Jormag, and possibly Primordus) – then we can go and take out other threats – like Joko, the DSD, and other lands (Cantha?).

I haven’t read through the whole thread, but “all things have a right to grow” is not the same as “you shouldn’t kill”

“right to grow” can mean both “let live” or “given a chance” – basically, it’s saying one of a few things:

Everything has a right to live, but they can revoke their own right by being harmful to others, so that others can live.

Everything has a right to grow up, make their own choices, but not all choices are correct.

Among many other interpretations. However, my opinion on how to interpret it is thus:

Just because you’re different from another (blossom and weed), does not mean you should oppose each other (right to grow) and you may find more similarities than at first apparent (brother to).

Try 100% not correct, Mirodir. It is practically outright stated that Grenth and Zhaitan are opposing forces (not in those words, but they’re both vying for the same soul). Along with this, throughout the personal storyline, the servants of the Six Gods all denounce their gods (from Lyssa to Grenth).

The only priestess to not fully denounce their god is the Priestess of Dwayna – whom we see a sculptor of her true form at her Cathedral of Zephyrs (looks like a largos) crafted by Malchor (and during the event chain, possessed by him too). The priestess of Dwayna reveres both Zhaitan and Dwayna – so I’ve been told at least – but still as different entities.

Dragons are not the gods. This is now a proven fact.

No, I don’t think Zhaitan looks like a disfigured tree.

Ronan is known to have found that cave in the Maguuma Jungle.

During the personal story, it’s said that there’s no cue for becoming a risen. Reason being is that the risen’s bodies are dead, rotting, etc. The land itself can be cured, but that’s more a case of “new life” rather than “returned life” (as well as the fact that the actual land wasn’t corrupted, but rather stiffened, by how I understand it and Zhaitan’s corruption).

That’s among the oldest speculations on Kuunavang post-the Movement of the World. But it’s not the case:

1) The Deep Sea Dragon is heavily implied via quaggan, krait, and largos lore to be in the Unending Ocean – not near Cantha.
2) More important, nothing relates Kuunavang to water, the element of the DSD.

However, Kuunavang and Glint are compared to each other a bit since the Movement, so it’s likely she – like Glint – was a champion of an Elder Dragon (possibly given free will the same way as Glint, via a spell used by the forgotten who did have a presence on Cantha).

The state of Glint’s child(ren) is unknown. As to the “father” – none, supposedly. Champions of Elder Dragons have the power to create more minions. I’d assume that the child/children were created in a similar manner as her Crystal Guardian/Crystal Spiders, considering the eggs were crystal and all.

I wouldn’t say the Elder Dragons are aware of “every” aspect of each other – since they’re said to be rivals (from an interview with Jeff Grubb and Ree Soesbee).

Nerdlife.2965:

What about Risen Knights ?
They do look like Gargoyles.

Nope, if you get a good look they’re regular humans that had draconic alterations (additional limbs becoming wings, and a second, draconic, head above their original ones).

Bluefunk.2758:

is there a good place for a begineers guide to the Lore of GW2? I have noticed there isn’t a great deal of it in the actual game itself and so it would be good to understand it to set the mood more. ty

You’re looking in the wrong places because I see an exponentially huge amount of lore all over the place. They don’t come out and say “this is the lore!” (figuratively speaking, of course), but it is there.

But there is no “beginner’s guide to lore of GW2” in the means of lore that’s in the game bogged down for folks yet, simply because it’s still so new and we’re still learning all there is in the game.

The two links above will give you background information though.

Embolism.8106:

Mesmer enchantments.

That’s the explanation for a lot of disguises.

Not all of them, but most. Beyond that, “game mechanics.” For when you go into a shared storyline, remember that your friends aren’t there in lore. Also remember that models are shared among all generic NPCs – and that’s what you get. These are mechanical “limitations.”

That Separatist poster is indeed Ascalonian. There’s also asuran in the game. And there’s supposed to be another still-undiscovered alphabet that can be translated too somewhere out there.

Olithia.4635:

Perhaps we will be lucky enough to eventually see some “true Krytan” towns and areas in one of the expansions. With Krytan people and old styled Krytan architecture. I would figure there would be some towns that would be throwbacks to earlier times.

I don’t think old style Kryta will ever return. That only existed because the White Mantle enforced poverty among non-believers of the Unseen Ones. Since they’re no longer in power, that doesn’t happen and there are too many cultural mixings since then as well.

As to the OP: I think it’s Anet’s subtle way of trying to improve the realism behind the world’s geography. If one tries looking at Tyria in GW1 logically, it doesn’t make sense. It was an attempt at making six different climates for one game to allow a nice diversity.

Same as to why ettins got two heads instead of one-head-two-faces, or how centaur looks changed, wurm/oakheart/giant appearances, and Ascalonian architecture designs all changed.

Who the Shining Blade are and their general duty is well known. They’re known to be the royal guards as well as their personal mini-army (that is, they don’t only protect the queen). They’re like the Order of Whispers, in a way, but restricted to Kryta and in the open. What they do and why they’re in certain places may not always be what they claim though (for instance, they seemed to have perfect timing in evacuating the Great Collapse; and there are three stories about the night of it, all contradicting).

SB members are seen outside Divinity’s Reach – especially if the Queen is elsewhere. They are, for instance, in Caudecus’s Manor exploration mode.

Yes, public knows of Anise’s role.

White Mantle are behind bandit attacks. They exist in seemingly large numbers, and I personally suspect a vast majority of all bandit foes are White Mantle operatives. My suspicions is fivefold:

Regardless of whether I’m right or not, DarthAcerbus is wrong. They are not wiped out. They are now a secret organization working behind the shadows. And not in a small manner nor negligible manner.

Insanitybg.4217:

Also does anybody mind linking to a source that says the DSD is in cantha ?

It’s a foolish speculative notion of no support based on the nickname “deep sea dragon” – people for some odd reason attached it to The Deep in the Jade Sea and in turn to the Leviathan centipede like creatures there.

There is no actual support for the DSD to even be touching Cantha’s shores. However, the quaggan and krait from the Unending Ocean were forced out 50 years prior to GW2 – the approximate date of the DSD’s rise. And Colin (I think) once slipped during a convention that they were pushed out of their homelands by an “underwater dragon.” This with the largos coming from the same waters as quaggan (both north and south it seems) and them being “darkened” and too dangerous for a race of assassins furthers supports the DSD being in the Unending Ocean – likely away from all land source.

Illushia.3721:

They sort of folded Ritualists into Rangers.

They’re a bit in engineers, guardians, and necromancers. Necromancers and guardians got some more spectral like skills, and engineers got the mechanical sides. I don’t see ritualists in rangers at all. Those nature rituals existed in GW1 too, so…

Willowleaf.5721:

What I love about the ritualist is that the ritualist is a dark class, a caster, a shaman of sort who travels in the worlds and who evoke spirits into reality, chains them, and make them do their biddings.

Go necro, and spec in spectral skills and Shadow Fiend. There’s even shamanistic armor for you too! And blindfolds. (though I wouldn’t get the male blindfold… that’s too BDSM bondage like for my tastes – unless it was the charr racial armor).

moonslightv.6704:

When I said I liked Hero’s version of the story its just that, a VERSION. I know that Anet did not intend the Pale Tree or Sylvari to be made out like that, what I was saying was that I think it was a really cool IDEA if they went that route.

Problem is too many people get too deep into the lore of a game/book/tv series and they will get very upset or offended if the creators change it too much beyond what they already like of the lore.

So ya, I seriously doubt Anet has done it that way or will, just thought it was a cool concept.

That’s nice, I was never referring to you so you don’t need to get upset over my post. Also, Anet’s already changed a lot in the lore from its original direction (one of the bigger ones being the Forgotten and Glint).

Furienify.5738:

Not to interrupt our sensationalist thread titles and conspiracy theories, but I hear a lot of talk about how sylvari can’t be corrupted. Is this ever mentioned or explained in-game? If so, by who? I never ran into it.

While we’re at it, I want to point out that there’s a sylvari in Orr that becomes one of the Risen during an event in the Arah chain, complete with a line of dialogue and everything. It’s this guy: http://i.imgur.com/nCUle.jpg

I don’t have a picture of him as a Risen character (and part of me suspects the work of bugs given a typo in the new mob’s name), but I can try and get one.

Was an interview a while back. It was to explain why we don’t see branded/icebrood/risen sylvari. Ever.

I didn’t see that sylvari turn into a risen, and if he did, then it’s a bug or type of some sort.

;bluejay.6739

Another example of some possible foreshadowing in the game that the Pale Tree is related to the Elder dragons… In one of the Order of Whispers missions, the Pale Tree warns of the attack on the Order’s home base, and one of the questions you character can ask is ‘How did the Pale Tree know of Zhaitan’s plan to attack the base?"

That’s because the Pale Tree has access to the Dream of Dreams – in that very same mission you’re shown that the Dream of Dreams can see the “current” future (that is the future that’s set to occur now, though it can still change). In that current future, the bases get attacked. So she sends you to defend them.

Even if that wasn’t the case, I don’t see how that supports her being related to the Elder Dragons. If she was, she’d be part of the mysterious sixth and it was stated in an interview with Jeff and Ree that the ED are enemies. So it’s not like she’d obtain the information from Zhaitan. If the above wasn’t the case, then a sylvari probably learned of the attack – thus sending the information to the DoD thus to the Pale Tree.

;bluejay.6739

The entire Malyk plot line has more holes than Swiss cheese and I wouldn’t be surprised if parts of it just don’t fit into the lore at all. As I posted in an old thread…

“Why is Malyk humanoid? I get that the Sylvari are human because the Tree absorbed the remnants of Rowan’s slaughtered people, and that Ventari and Rowan unknowingly ‘guided’ the tree in its formation, but Malyk is from an entirely different, unrelated tree. Was that tree ALSO planted on a pile of dead people and guided into existence by a human and centaur philosopher? "

That explanation is solely and purely theoretical – both by players and in game. Why sylvari – any sylvari – are humanoid is unknown.

Lonami.2987:

A TL;DR for the laziest ones:

• Personal story should be connected to the open world. Characters should appear in both versions, and they shouldn’t act as if nothing had happened.
• All characters from the novels should appear in-game, unless they’re being saved for something special.
• Collectible lore books would help get into the lore better, having longer and more detailed texts than NPC conversations.
• Personal story characters should remember you if you helped them before, and praise you instead of lore characters.
• Personal story should be replayable (without changing decisions) just to be able to experience it once again.

I think these 5 points would help the game deliver lore in a better way.

1) This is already done to some degree. Most NPCs from the personal story appear in home instance after the fact, but others such as the order members who recruit you can often be found in the racial city. Another more closer to what you’re wanting example is in the sylvari storyline – lvl 20-30 arc, forgot which level – you can chose to work with the Whispers for getting the sword back at a pit fight. After it, the maintainer/announcer of the arena will say to you something along the lines of “oh, you’re back? Sorry, there’s no fights today. Got to clean up the mess from the last one.”

2) Most do, at least important ones. Destiny’s Edge is obvious and the only one of semi-importance I don’t think made it into the game is the leader of the Lionguard, which I find odd (Magus the Bloody-Handed or some such). Ghosts of Ascalon’s main characters… well, Almorra’s in, obviously – so is Ember and Dougal as well as Killeen’s graves. I’ve heard Gullix can be found periodically too.

3) Agreed. I’d like.

4) Does exist sometimes, but does need improvements.

5) Yes yes yesyesyesyesyeyseysyesyeysyeyeysyes. At least after completing it all maybe?

The DSD is most likely in the Unending Ocean – heavily implied to be in the deepest part of it which implies far from land. I doubt it’ll be near Cantha.

However, there is a sixth, unknown, dragon somewhere apparently. And with there having been deldrimor-looking relics in the Jade Sea (per Aurios Mines), this sixth one, whom I’d guess would have woken up either during the same time as Primordus (as he alone got pushed back), or will in 50 some years from now – thus no threat, may be in Cantha. That is, if it’s still alive.

Either way, I have minimal interest in Cantha.

Don’t recall seeing this at all. Huh. But I don’t know anyone named Acht – which is 8 in German, interestingly.

There really isn’t any one place to get all the lore. Probably the most filled lore would be these two:

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Lore
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Timeline

But that’s in relation to GW1 alone. There are links at the bottom of the first (and within the text of both) to elaborate on it. This also has a few links that are good to read through (they’re at the bottom of the first link’s page too):

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Storyline

For GW2, there currently isn’t a summary since a lot of it is still being discovered, but the best I can give you is a list of links here:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Category:Tales

That’ll get you introduced to GW2 very well. As others said, there are two books out, with a third in waiting, which pertain to more recent events setting up GW2 from GW1.

Anyone know if Kranxx gets a recognition outside Dougal’s dialogue?

Liraz.8062:

There are definitely horses in Tyria, and the NPCs mention them both in GW1 and GW2.

They existed at the time of Orr, since there were undead horsemen in GW1. The imagery of knights on horseback persists even to the present day Tyria (check out the pictures of the festival in DR, for example), and two of the guild symbols it is available is that of unicorns.

Pictures depicting horses and horselike creatures from the wiki:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/thumb/5/59/Carnival_01_concept_art.jpg/800px-Carnival_01_concept_art.jpg
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/0/09/Guild_emblem_48.png
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/8/8b/Guild_emblem_49.png

There are also horses mentioned in Edge of Destiny, page 97:

In Edge of Destiny a herd of wild horses is seen through an asura gate when Logan, Rytlock, and Caithe flee from the Destroyer horde in the Dwarven ruins.

“Visions. Beautiful visions… a grassy plain where wild horses ran… a deep lagoon encircled by leaning palms…”

There’s horses in the concept art:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/thumb/4/48/Human_architecture_05_concept_art.jpg/800px-Human_architecture_05_concept_art.jpg

This lore bit here also mentions skilled horsemen:

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/An_Empire_Divided:_A_Selected_History_of_Mysterious_Cantha_for_the_Traveling_Scholar

And here’s a dude in original GW that mentions riding horses:

http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Zumo_the_Beggar

Hey, hey you! I was riding my horse to the other side of town and I ran out of hey to feed him to get there. Spare a few gold so I can feed him and be on my way?

So there are definitely horses in the lore, all over the place.

The better question is, why don’t we SEE any horses in Tyria?

I’m just quoting this for a good sourced post. However, you forgot some:
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Celestial_Horse
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/The_Four_Horsemen

Four horsemen approach, riders of Dhuum.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Iron_Horse_Mine
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/A_Sound_of_Ancient_Horns

This old war horse still knows a thing or two.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Gate_of_Desolation

Palawa Joko: “Easy now, my little plough horse. Now if you don’t mind, I will be taking my leave.”

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Horseman_Saralim

The manes of the half-man, half-horse creatures of this land are great prizes!

So yes, horses exist. They weren’t extinct by GW1’s time at least, or by Edge of Destiny’s time (which was only 5 years before GW2, and I doubt they’d go extinct in 5 year’s time, though it’s possible). So the question truly is: where the hell are they?

Some were in Orr, some were in Cantha. Some are… somewhere in the world accessible by an asura gate, seemingly in the middle of no where.

From what I was able to find out in the BWE, the Mists Wars is basically an invasion from an unknown source. Your “allies” (aka the Mist Warriors) are saying that these invaders are “evil” beings of unknown origins – merciless and whatnot – and that they threaten the world. It’s kept vague, probably for mechanical reasons.

Why fight in the Mists, other than these Mists Wars (which is only WvW, btw)? Honor and glory, just as in GW1. That is the primary reason to fight beings from other worlds in the multiverse that is the Mists. Honor, glory, and bloodshed… and defending your homeworld from unknown invaders of eeeeeviiiiiil.

Has shown nothing to do with Balthazar or any of the gods, though personally, I’m hoping it’s somehow tied to the apparent overflow of Underworld creatures into Tyria (such as at Godslost Swamp, Blackroot Cut, Reaper’s Gate, and a few other places). Which I’m personally suspecting Dhuum to be behind. Maybe the Mists War’s lore will turn out to be caused by an alliance between a free’d Dhuum and an empowered-by-Dhuum Menzies.

Effectively, every race has at least two cultures: their ‘native’ culture, and their Lion’s Arch culture.

Charr in Lion’s Arch are all effectively gladiums unless they chose otherwise. More or less. I’ve seen mention of charr not being in fahrars because they’re in Lion’s Arch, as well as charr being annoyed they can’t join one and the legions because they’re in LA.

@Hunter: No, haven’t seen such. That is odd. Care to provide a location and context for that phrase? Might be just a saying.

I thought Langmar was her first name. Dunno why, but it always came off as her first name unlike NPCs like, say, Farmer Dirk or Captain Greywind.

I haven’t seen such mention in GW2 and I know there’s none in GW1. She’s always just “Captain Langmar” (except in pre where it’s Lieutenant, of course). If Langmar’s a surname, then she’s nameless for the first, unless someone found some grave of hers in Harathi Hinterlands.

Hyperion.9704:

Powerful magi are able to use the flesh and bones of soulless corpses in order to create minions and other critters. They aren’t imbuing these constructs with souls any more than an Asura’s golem.

Many actually do contain the soul – most of Joko’s undead, many Zhaitan’s even as well (though they seem to be mostly/partially uncorrupted). But as for Grenth controlling that – he allows undead for xyz unknown reason, and only gives proper say once the soul reaches the Underworld. And that’s not an instantaneous thing. Souls wander the world fairly easily in Tyria, even wander the Mists unguided, as one can see in the norn storyline “Defend the Mists.”

Of course it may be simply that Grenth doesn’t have any control – considering Dhuum still has some powers of death, Grenth may not be a proper “god of death.”

Hunter.6950:

They were probably wiped out from the Charr moving back into Ascalon. I really don’t think they have anything to do with the Dragons.

If that was the case, then a charr wouldn’t say they mysteriously disappeared. I’ve seen no mention of how they disappeared – though I haven’t fully explored Iron Marches, Fireheart Rise, or Blazeridge Steppes yet.

Only mention I’ve seen in a Durmand Priory charr in the Black Citadel saying when they disappeared – made it sound like it was an overnight event.

“heard it here first” – more like I heard it back in 2007. It’s a nice theory at the start, but as I pointed out in another thread on this forum, it falls apart.

There being 6 dragons, and 6 gods, sure sounds good start. Primordus and Balthazar are both fire – check. Melandru and this mysterious 6th dragon seem to be planty – check. Abaddon and the DSD are both water (Abaddon was the god of water and knowledge before his fall) – check. Grenth… no, wait, better go with his predecessor Dhuum – he’s death and death alone (never associated with ice), so only fits Zhaitan. Kralkatorrik… well, purple, but he has nothing related to illusions… so… he fits no one. Dwayna – air and life… not in the dragons either. Jormag, ice… fits Grenth but he wouldn’t count – not an original god.

So you’re left with:

Primordus-Balthazar
Unkown 6th dragon-Melandru
DSD-Abaddon/Abaddon’s predecessor
Jormag-none
non-Dwayna
Zhaitan-Dhuum
Kralkatorrik-none
none-Lyssa

You can stretch it to say Jormag=Lyssa, both being mesmeric in nature in terms of magic (Jormag corrupts mentally), but it’s a bit of a stretch.

Atlas.9704:

I think the Elder Dragons ate the Human Gods. That would explain why they left the Humans completely.

The gods left before the ED began waking. They also don’t match up that nicely. Furthermore, later in the personal story, you actually deal with the gods’ servants – I think they’d probably give a bit of insight of their draconic masters if the gods were dragons.

Not to mention that all depictions of the Six are humanoid (if not outright human), and they were seen by mortals. Mortals would know if their gods were dragons, having seen them. Whichever statues are Malchor’s (I think they’re in Arah itself, at the temple which the Giganticus Lupicus guards, but I haven’t seen anything regarding past that beast) will show their true forms, according to lore.

I can’t believe the concept of the Pale Tree being an Elder Dragon. And the comments saying that the Pale Tree tricked the sylvari – an unrelated race – that they’re her children? That’s just silliness at its max. It’s a known, in-lore-observable, fact that the sylvari and sylvan hounds come from the Pale Tree. Unlike Elder Dragons, the Pale Tree creates the sylvari – Elder Dragons corrupt. There’s a mighty big difference.

Everything about the Pale Tree is the very anticedent of the Elder Dragons. So maybe there’s some plant/earth-based Elder Dragon. Okay, very possible. Though I’d prefer a star/sky based Elder Dragon personally. But that’s like arguing Grenth is Zhaitan. They’re not the same as it’s a fact Grenth is younger than Zhaitan, having been around while Zhaitan was hibernating (just as the other gods were – so God=Dragon is definitely false).

It’s possible that the Six Gods and the Elder Dragons have related sources of energy – I hope that’s not the case as it just ruins who the Six are even more, and I don’t think it is or that evidence points to such (at least on a 1 to 1 scale), but it’s possible.

At best, in any god to dragon relation, it’s that the Six Gods tampered with Zhaitan’s magic – much like how the asura did with Primordus. You can start creating parallels between the powers between the gods, but you eventually falter. Primordus and Balthazar, the DSD and Abaddon (god of water prior to his fall), this supposed plant-based dragon and Melandru… but then it gets tricky. There is then no sky dragon, so it must be life for Dwayna, and the closest to that is Zhaitan, who fits more with Grenth and death. Jormag has mental corruption powers, but has ice, so in terms of how he corrupts he fits Lyssa more, but in what his element is he fits Grenth more. Then there’s Kralkatorrik, which some would argue – probably solely due to color schematics – that Kralkatorrik best fits Lyssa, though there’s nothing mesmeric about him at all. Which comes to another issue – there’s nothing monk-like about Zhaitan so he doesn’t fit Dwayna really. Thus you’re left with Dwayna without a dragon, and Grenth with one. Though if you go by original gods, then it’d be Dhuum in which case Jormag doesn’t fit (Dhuum’s never related to ice).

So then you have Dwayna being dragonless, and either Jormag or Kralkatorrik (depending on which you’d relate to Lyssa) being godless. And Dwayna doesn’t fit either. It just falls apart unless there’s a seventh god and seventh dragon.

So I would argue that the number 6 is likely just a favorite number on ArenaNet’s part, rather than some divine conspiracy (pun intended).

The Arhcivists’ Sanctum [Lore] is a guild established primarily for those who enjoy the lore of the game – whether reading, finding, or discussing it. Anyone can join and we are very easy going.

Home Server: Sanctum of Rall
Who to contact to join:

• Konig Deathrazor
• Lothar Draxynnus
• Grydd
• Kaliyah Seritena

For more information: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/User:Konig_Des_Todes/The_Archivists%27_Sanctum