Guild Wars 2

Bard.7215:

The Way I see it, the dragons so far represent the divided magical energies used by classes or at least divided into a similar categories

Fire/(Earth) (Primordus)
Water(Water Dragon)
Ice(Jormag)
Earth/Crystal and Electricity/storm (Kralkatorrik)
Lifeforce (Zhaitan)
So what are we missing

Light
Unaffiliated Energy(Assuming Torrik isn’t a part of this)
Nature.

I may not have as much evidence to support this theory above the pale tree being dragon related, but it would sure fit the theme of the dragons being divided into magic casts.

Besides, when was the last time you’ve seen an evil divine energy dragon?

The issue with this is that Zhaitan, Jormag, and Kralkatorrik all have electricity in areas of high concentrated corruption. Drakkar Spurs for Jormag and where Zhaitan’s defeated in Arah for him both have the same kind of electrical current around spires of the land.

So what we’re missing, in terms of dragons being tied to a specific aspect of nature (as that’s what they’re tied to – not magical affiliations), you’d get:

Known:
Fire, ice, crystal, water, undeath

Speculated:
Nature

Missing:
Stars, Air, Lightning, Earth (while Primordus also corrupts earth, his focus is fire/lava – same with Kralk, who’s focus is crystals not earth/lightning), Life, Chaos, Light, Darkness

Note:
The first three of the Missing (stars, air, and lightning) can be one.

Death Diablos.6702:

Guys…..there are so many hint that the pale tree is a connection with the sixth elder dragon…. And most probably is the elder dragon.
Did u see the pale tree’s size? its freakin huge! id say thats an ED size! also, near that crucible of eternity, in the green area, that skill point golem…. when u defeat him, he tells u something in binary code, which, when it is translated, says THE PALE TREE

1) Go to the Maguuma Jungle in GW1, or to the Echovald Forest – those trees are similarly “freakin huge” – the Maguuma Jungle has dozens of Stonewood trees so the Pale Tree’s size is irrelevant.

2) Wooden Potatoes’ video on the skill point golem’s binary code was wrong – it does not translate into “the pale tree” but rather “end transmission sequence” (iirc).

So no, there are not dozens of hints to this.

draxynnic.3719:

If the steam creatures are in fact purely technological, then, they may have been initially built as a replacement for golems to be the front line against the dragons. (Although why, if that’s the case, they’re made to resemble creatures such as minotaurs and riders is an interesting question.)

One of the NPCs in Lornar’s Pass says that he believes (or that his research has shown? can’t recall which) that the steam creatures have an organic core.

Lyssa’s avatar being the one talking during Nightfall is weird just for the fact that Dwayna’s avatar was present and Dwayna’s the leader of the gods (and similarly, Melandru’s the oldest). The only uniqueness unto Lyssa herself is twofold: She represents inspiration, so she’d be a good motivational speaker I guess, and before being called to join the other gods (while still a god), she lived among humans to help them “forget the past” (whatever this means), meaning that she’d be the one in charge of dealing with old issues and overcoming them.

Alternatively, if there is a connection between Lyssa and Abaddon, then it could be that she took up responsibility because there was a connection – either she had to show her resolve, wanted revenge, or even felt guilt over it so she wanted to be the one to bring his end (a common theme in stories, someone feels guilty over the actions of a loved one and believe that it is their duty and punishment to fix said love one’s wrongs – in this case, sentence Abaddon to death and Kormir to replace him).

Except that she’s been attributed with these very things prior to the fall of Abaddon.

Seems more likely that there was a rather large overlap in Lyssa’s and Abaddon’s domains (perhaps intentionally?). I’ve seen wild speculation and fan-fiction saying that Lyssa and Abaddon may have been lovers – perhaps that’s more true than not (or, alternatively, they were siblings).

The seals in Lyssa’s temple also follow the same deign as how Abaddon’s depicted in the guild emblem options, though rather than six eyes and tentacle hair, it’s split faced.

Closer to 10,000 year slumber – though more specifically, about 11,000 years.

We know that the ED have woken more than twice – according to jotun history at least, as well. Though the Priory say that the GL died out during their last awakening. If the ED slumber for roughly 10,000 years each time, then the previous time they were awake would have been about 20,000 BE.

Regarding the Eye’s dialogue – keep in mind that he mentions, I believe, that your mentor is waiting with Zhaitan even if you went Priory where your mentor was a sylvari – so that line is more of psychological warfare (as is much of what the Sovereign Eye says, by how I took it). Though a fun thought I had regarding him saying that we’re poisoning the land was: what if the Elder Dragons’ corruption is how Tyria is meant to be? That is to say, the Elder Dragons are merely putting Tyria into its “true form” and that the races are, instead, corrupting it.

Yeah I quoted the wrong person, meant to quote Faylinn. :P

@Quw: Learning of the source of the Nightmare is different from the story of Faolain and Caithe. :P

True, that is why we Ascended. However, in the Southern Shiverpeaks we don’t know whether they’re still hiding invisible or not given they’re fighting the Stone Summit and leading the White Mantle – it may be that they dropped their invisibility (perhaps, as many speculate, due to them being unable to fight while invisible). Though there’s nothing to indicate that they’re not invisible on the Ring of Fire islands. And as seen when they appear and disappear during The Rise of the White Mantle BMP mission, they can become invisible (and literally phase out, as their magic is described as being during the Arah explorable dungeon).

The only thing found on Abaddon in lore is in relation to the personal story step everyone goes through at his sunken temple – that his temple’s trials deal with mesmerism and has the names “Lies” “Illusions” “the Deep” and so forth – seems there’s a heavy tie between him and Lyssa, imo.

But nothing else has been said, that I’ve found, on Abaddon. Sadly.

You mean first five paragraphs (that is, everything above the table of contents).

The steam creatures’ background is explained in the Infinity Ball asura storyline. They’re creates of the asura PC in one of the possible futures, and are sent to the current Tyria in order to take over it (as the asura PC has become the Grand Sovereign of Tyria in his world).

They seem more likely to be tools to fight Elder Dragons, given that, by appearances, the ED were weakened in their version of Tyria (in one of the portals opened between the worlds, tiny and weak destroyers come through). Either way, I don’t see any similarity between the steam creatures and the ED minions at all.

Looks like this is development for a fourth CM path that may end up revealing Caudecus’ darker side. Maybe, given the age of that video, it’s ready to be shipped for the October path?

You misunderstood what I meant about the half-god thing. What I meant was that being half-god prevented Grenth from absorbing Dhuum’s full power – not that it allowed it. That is to say, Grenth began absorbing Dhuum’s power as a god, but because he was already a half-god, he couldn’t handle all the power (think of a container being filled with water – keep filling it up, it’ll overflow and can even burst if the pressure is strong enough).

I would argue that killing Dhuum isn’t unjust. Dhuum was cruel, unjust, and probably the closest thing to a literal evil being that GW has. Grenth is a representation of judgment, not necessarily revenge (revenge is merely a portion of his justice system), so death to one who would kill perhaps thousands, even to the point of hunting down those who managed to escape death (be it via resurrection or, by the sound of it, merely surviving a should-have-been fatal experience), sounds rather just to me.

As to the concept of gods killing dragons – I disagree for three reasons:

• Zhaitan did not exude indestructable energy when he died. Ergo, unlike the gods, the Elder Dragons do not have this.
• The Six Gods arrived after the Elder Dragons’ last awakening. That is, the last “cycle” was long over by the time the gods arrived. Or so all current indications say.
• Most importantly, as said in this thread prior, Dwayna, Balthazar, and Melandru are said to have come from the Mists as gods. Therefore, if they killed and took an Elder Dragon’s power to ascend into godhood, they did so on another world.

Regarding the Great Dwarf – it has been revealed that the Great Dwarf wasn’t, to all knowledge, a single being but rather the shared consciousness of the dwarven race – hence the Rite of the Great Dwarf being the dwarves “becoming the Great Dwarf.”

About what you said on WvWvW: False. That’s the lore behind the Hall of Heroes (except that the ghosts didn’t make that – its origins are unknown). The story behind WvWvW seems, by our current knowledge, to be a literal battlefield between multiple worlds and/or realities. It is no arena and the dead have no say in it.

As to the view of the world: comparing to Christopher Columbus’ time is fairly inaccurate since it’s never been claimed the world Tyria was flat – considering we now have a full detailed globe, I think it’s likely that it is known by the races (at least the Order of Whispers) what the world looks like.

Crudelis.5420:

Your post is nonsense, The Mursaat obviously fought undead when they encountered the vizier, even if not specifically shown. And everything we have seen tells us that the ‘less faithful’ (less belief) were the ones killed, not due to some petty arrogance. Also we can’t speculate on the ability to see them, but saul’s quotes on their mysterious city is compelling, I froth at the thought of a city full of mursaat to play as/fight etc., but anyway, we nothing to support any of this.

Quite insulting when you yourself are incorrect.

Firstly, it is not obvious the mursaat themselves fought the undead nor is it known that they directly ever encountered the vizier (prior to Thunderhead Keep that is). There’s actually no indication of this, merely that they knew of the Flameseeker Prophecies and used the White Mantle to work against the prophecies – it’s very likely they never involved themselves directly until the Southern Shiverpeak areas simply to avoid making the prophecies worse or come true (they seem cautious like that).

Secondly, true that they killed the “less faithful” – but they did this so as to retain their “unseen” status. This, in turn, is to reduce their direct actions in the world and, one can easily argue, only done because they had to ensure a leadership in the White Mantle that followed them. This can in turn be argued to be due to arrogance – the arrogance that they believed themselves capable of stopping the Flameseeker Prophecies without getting their hands “dirty” (so to say).

Though you are correct, to a degree, in calling him out on the whole “they’re not really unseen” part – as evidence points to the fact that they can, in fact, hide themselves (evidence including the very BMP mission he uses as an argument for against such).

Crudelis.5420:

Not to mention they have no interest in killing her, the conflict we dealt with was purely due to the titans in gw1 and our misunderstandings, only lazarus might hire a grudge.

I wouldn’t say there’s no interest. If there are still mursaat, they’ll likely still be using the White Mantle as pawns, who are in turn related to the bandits – the bandits themselves actively proclaiming to want to remove the “tyrant queen” that’s ruining the nation (their own thoughts on the matter, of course).

So it may be that – should there be mursaat behind the White Mantle still – the mursaat want Queen Jennah dead (seems they don’t really care about the state of the world, just ruining the human nation, considering they’re willing to ally with centaurs and, seemingly, ignore the threat of the Elder Dragons (if the theory that Caudecus is a WM member too is true)).

I just want to note that the first link (GWW’s Lore article) is written prior to GW2 and as such holds knowledge as is known prior to the release of GW2. Similarly, GW2W’s lore articles (including the linked Lore article) are mostly out of date, though with aspects updated since the release of the game.

Reasoning I bring this up is because there were revelations about some old knowledge being false (human history isn’t fully true, and it’s human history we only knew during GW1).

Along with the two Lore articles on the respective two wikis, I suggest going to the bottom of the page’s navbar and reading through each link there. Reading through the links throughout the articles are also helpful too. Along with that, and the two books that are out, there’s these three links I’d suggest going through (and the links in them):

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Storyline
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Timeline
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Timeline

Faylinn.3280:

I hope it’s gonna be more of the creepy stuff, like maybe we get to learn Caithe’s story with Faolain.

But… don’t we already know this? If I recall correctly, we’re told that the nightmare first touched Faolain when the two visited Orr (when Caithe witnessed Zhaitan, I’m guessing). When Cadeyrn established the Nightmare Court, he brought Faolain fully into the nightmare and, in turn, Faolain has been trying to turn Caithe to the nightmare ever since (as shown in Edge of Destiny and Twilight Arbor).

EdwinLi.1284:

very bottom of the post they just added today about the up coming content in the “Tyria Evolving” section. Right under the section about tournaments.

Except that it doesn’t mention new zones (to use wiki terminology). Just jumping puzzles, events, and the like.

In other words, we’ll be getting extensions to the existing zones, by what we’re told.

Then which race would you propose being the sixth – keep in mind that, given the context, it would be six surviving and sentient races – and along with this, the jotun would have had to know of them (as this information of there being six Elder Dragons and five surviving races comes from the jotun’s historical records).

Mind you, I can think of three potential sentient race survivors from the time, but they’re all far from the jotun in their original known locations (kodan, tengu, and krait).

However, such a concept fails as we’re told that “there were five sentient races who fought the Elder Dragons the first time and survived” and “there were five sentient races that fought the Elder Dragons the first time around… and survived to tell about it.” by Scholar Trueclaw and, by Scholar Caterine there’s mention of "a sextet of “swallowers” who are said to have consumed the world several times over. " (sounds like Elder Dragons to me). So it seems to be five races versus six Elder Dragons.

Though this is, again, only to jotun stelae.

That is one possibility, however, GW1 Drakkar Lake seems to be at the northern end of the in-land sea (name still unknown). And furthermore, that’s a sea not a lake. So unless it opens up to yet another body of water or some such north of the GW2 map, and that ends up being where Drakkar Lake is considered (though not where it was in GW1), then it’d be possible. Or it’d be that Jormag awoke in the middle of norn territory and not to the north of them, which would similarly contradict the previously stated lore (both in and out of the game as there’s a norn NPC in Hoelbrak, iirc, that says Jormag came from the north of the old norn lands).

@Narcemus: You’re assuming that killing Dhuum would give Grenth the rest of his powers.

Firstly, one has to be physically present to absorb a gods’ power it would seem (based on the fact Kormir literally jumped into Abaddon’s power). So that means that means Grenth wouldn’t get the power.

Secondly, there would have to be a new god (or a god present) to keep the Underworld from being destroyed by Dhuum’s power. Given the fact that Grenth didn’t absorb all of Dhuum’s power previously, there’s bound to be a reason for such. Maybe it’s that Dhuum found a way to prevent his power from being stolen, or that having been a half-god, Grenth could only absorb so much of the power (and it had to be returned to Dhuum as a container of it – though that wouldn’t explain why the Reapers didn’t take some of the power – or maybe they did and that’s why they’re the Reapers).

While I haven’t been able to fully explore Frostgorge Sound yet, we’re told by developers that Jormag awoke to the north of where the norn once lived, and pushed south and north after his awakening.

If I recall correctly, it was said in a Guru2 post by Stephane Lo Presti (acting as a medium for Jeff Grubb responding to a topic about Jormag and Drakkar), but it seems that Guru2 has deleted quite a lot of posts in archiving old threads which is… bad, since Stephane/Jeff’s confirmation that Jormag was not underneath Drakkar Lake is now gone.

It was a fairly big deal at Guru2 about Jormag being under Drakkar Lake or not, and we had Word of God confirmation that he, in fact, wasn’t. So now having GW2 information saying that he was under Drakkar Lake, after such a big deal caused from the supposed retcon, just to revert it back to the original assumption… makes no sense.

I think he meant that his hatred for Logan would make him careless in fighting him. Though I don’t see that happening.

@the OP: Arachnia’s not confirmed to be canon lore – the name was taken out of the gw.dat and was never said in the actual game.

Thruln the Lost is wrong on many accounts. For instance, as said in this thread the Six Gods brought humanity to the world, and they lived in the first continental Tyrian kingdom (Orr) alongside the humans – so it is therefore impossible for the humans, who managed to create a kingdom within five years of living on Elona (and they arrived to continental Tyria at the same time), to have been primitive and beneath the eyes of the Six Gods. Furthermore, we know of three gods – Dwayna, Balthazar, and Melandru – who came from the Mists as gods.

Narcemus.1348:

In fact, I remember reading that the first humans […] lived for quite some time and became very advanced without any knowledge of the gods up in Tyria.

This was never stated in lore as far as I know – unless it comes from GW2. Even in An Empire Divided, historical records from the time claim that Kaineng Tah was given a divine command by the gods to unite Cantha under one banner – this was a mere 200 or so years after they appeared in Cantha.

Sajuuk Khar.1509:

[…]
Jeff Grubb – The full story of the origin of the humans has yet to be revealed. They arrived in the Tyria (the continent) sometime after they first appeared on Tyria (the world). It seems, from their previous appearances, that they have come up from the south, so the “human homeland” may be further south than Elona and Cantha.

Humans were brought to the world of Tyira by the gods sometime in the past, their original point of arrival was somewhere south of Cantha.

Neither story is wrong, each is just a smaller part of a larger story.

Not entirely true. Take note of Jeff’s phrasing of the response:

“[…] the ‘human homeland’ may be further south than Elona and Cantha.”

May be further south – as in, that might not be the case. Of course, I expect that the situation is that the Six Gods arrived in Orr, then went south and brought humanity to the world in a land where they didn’t see so many other races (only Balthazar was intent on having humanity control the world, after all, and Tyria has quite a lot of races) – perhaps guided by the forgotten. But that’s only conjecture.

What we do know is that Jeff wasn’t speaking in absolutes, and the most recent case of where humans arrived on Tyria in lore is said – by modern scholars – to be Orr. Though I’d trust the Seventh Reaper who never mentions when or where humans came to Tyria more than the Durmand Priory (that is, that we still don’t truly know).

Narcemus.1348:

and when it comes to Dhuum it seems that it is impossible to kill him.

Well, thing is in GW1 we’re not trying to kill him – our goal is imprisoning him. With Grenth, he was already a half-god so maybe there’s a “limit” to how much power an individual god can hold.

In Rytlock’s office, there is a spear awarded from Rytlock’s days in the arena. A fight of the full Destiny’s Edge in a competition. The last standing winners of Destiny’s Edge? Rytlock and Garm.

And we all know Garm lasts longer in fights than Rytlock.

The Dire Black Wolf beats all. Even Snaff – and Snaff wrestled the mind of Kralkatorrik! Imagine what Garm could do if he did the same – he’d wrestle the mind of Tyria down with his mental teeth! :P

Cancer.9065:

for instance … Logan a veteran soldier? not really he was a part of a somewhat militia group

He was a mercenary – hired to protect caravans going to and from Ebonhawke.

I do not believe anything states that Sixth is still alive.

Also, Primordus has been potentially everywhere in Tyria, so he could have been at the Maguuma Wastes (the original theory when it was mentioned that the Maguuma Wastes dried up – which is something that underground heat will do to the water there).

Where is it said that Mount Maelstrom’s caused by a bloodstone? As far as I know, it’s destroyers that caused it. Or was that just a hypothesis on your part?

Arguably, Jormag isn’t centered in continental Tyria, since he awoke north of the explorable GW1 area, and was personally in the arctic seas to the north it seems (he capsized kodan icebergs).

The temples may act as a defense by Zhaitan, but that doesn’t mean he isn’t feeding on the innate magic presented there – and it’s said he’s corrupting said innate magic at the temples by the meta event scouts. Since he feeds on the magic he corrupts (effectively consuming, corrupting, then exuding the magic), the temples are both a food source and a defense for Zhaitan.

Zhaitan feeds on magic. The Artesian Waters is a source of magic. So cleansing that corruption – which is possible since that’s the “source” of Orr (e.g., the epicenter of where the flow of corruption is) is at that place, even if Zhaitan’s alive somewhere else (and thus not re-corrupting it) – would thus weaken Zhaitan’s hold on magic. Think of it like this: You head to a water and pour some coloring dye in it – the river flow will wash it away; you head to the mouth of the river (most often a lake) and pour the dye there and it will settle and then get carried by the river spreading it. The concept is the same – Zhaitan did this, then Trehearne did this to remove Zhaitan’s corruption while he was somewhere else. If Zhaitan were to return to the Artesian Waters, it would have become re-corrupted.

My post on the Leviathan being naturally unrelated to the DSD doesn’t mean they aren’t the thought-to-be-aquatic gigantic skeletons (in fact, I’d say that’s highly likely! Good thought).

“Chompy” from Sharkmaw Caverns was a shark, iirc, and its the same skeleton as the one in the Priory. So it’s likely a species of sharks.

Doubtful, since the attack linked to it is earth-based, whereas the Primordus one is fire, and the Jormag one is ice. There are no water-based attacks (and as far as we know, the Inquest hasn’t experimented with the sole DSD they seem to have captured).

Insanitybg.4217:

1) even if he was starved he spent nearly 10 000 years sleeping (if they went to sleep around the extinction of the lupicus) oh and we killed 2 mouths – one in Malchor’s Leap storyline and one in the arah fight
2) the eyes serve so he can see without having to stomp around the entire continent all the time he wants to check something, pretty sure the 10 little heads in place of his jaw can see
3)the boss fight is about him not his minions
4)he was “wasting” power on them to use as defence against the pact, in any case that would make him stronger as he is no longer spending energy to maintain them
5)the corruption is like the dragonbrand, it’s there by his mere existance

1) The second Mouth of Zhaitan being killed may not have directly influenced him becoming weakened.
2 and 3) Apparently you didn’t pay attention to one of the possibly-four missions where it’s outright stated that the Elder Dragons become more powerful through their minions. That’s the main concept behind the Mouth (being the most influencial in this aspect). Therefore, the death and prevention of creating more minions makes Zhaitan himself weaker.
4) Except the power there was divine and thus not Zhaitan. So they were food sources to him – as Zhaitan (if not other Elder Dragons) consume magic to feed. Therefore, taking those would make him weaker since he’s not absorbing their magic anymore.
5) Not exactly. The Dragonbrand was a proactive creation – Kralkatorrik corrupted the land intentionally as he flew south. The corruption of Orr is similar, true, but it’s not “just by his mere existence” otherwise it would have been corrupted while he slumbered (same with the other ED). However, as stated above: removing or reducing the Elder Dragons’ corruption is said a multitude of times throughout the later storyline, to weaken the respective Elder Dragon since they no longer feed off of said corrupted things.

Don’t get me wrong – I’m not saying it’s underwhelming. I’m merely saying that Zhaitan did not have the power he did before confronting him.

Narcemus.1348:

Now I’ve never fought the battle myself, but that being said, when Zhaitan awoke he had none of the power that he gained during his time after awakening, and he had no minions.

This isn’t entirely true to our knowledge. Considering that the Elder Dragons radiate magic to their surroundings, it would only stand to believe that they also absorb it, even while sleeping, since it seems that their magical use is akin to breathing for us.

So for thinking of how an Elder Dragon “eats” magic, compare it to how you breath. That’s my personal theory and understanding on it at least.

Though the thing is, the main plot of Prophecies was finished – the only conflict left unresolved was the charr-Ascalonian war (which was already returned to via the Titan Quests, with their gods’ deaths) – at the time that is, it was revealed later, with no indications in Prophecies, that the White Mantle weren’t all finished (we cut off the snake’s head in Prophecies, after all). However, in GW2, there’s still a multitude of threats remaining in Tyria that is a more direct attention gaining. Aside from the four remaining known Elder Dragons, there’s the bandits, Faolain, Ascalonian ghosts, and possibly Palawa Joko who are still large threats – then there’s the “(possibly) heavily weakened by not gone” threats of Inquest and centaurs.

With so many threats at Tyria’s doorstep, would they really spend resources to help a foreign land that was isolated from them for centuries? Also keep in mind that there were a few hints at Cantha and having recent problems (Jiaju Tai )

jebidiah ubershiet.2580:

Or we may not go to Cantha at all. Personally I see no reason why expansions to GW2 would have to follow the expansions to GW1.

This is the main reason why I don’t think we’ll be going to Cantha – immediately, that is. With all the closer threats, and the DSD still blocking the path (supposedly), why spend resources on a distanced location for an unknown threat?

Legion.4198:

Only because you can’t thing of anything.

You seem to be completely ignoring my main point.

The current story gives no reasons to go to Cantha.

But as I said, Anet can add a reason from out of no where if they wish to go to Cantha. But nothing’s forcing them to go there either.

Lyssa’s called the goddess of beauty, illusion, and water in the human biography question. She also represents chaos and other things though.

Not necessarily true. They are “unseen” because of their magic. We don’t know when they developed the magic to become “out of phase” with the world (which is likely the ability behind their invisibility). Nothing says seers have the innate ability to detect them either, by the way.

As for “where they come from” – indications give, currently, that they’re native to Tyria – though they left during the last rise of the Elder Dragons and, seemingly returned shortly before being found by Saul (the Arah explorable scholar says that they returned “as the Unseen Ones”).

Well we can assume that the jotun would only know a limited amount of knowledge – I doubt they were world-spread after all. The dwarves only shown indication of knowing 3 Elder Dragons to our knowledge (Primordus, Jormag, and Zhaitan), but there are relics similar to Deldrimor dwarves’ artifacts found in the Jade Sea during GW1, and the forgotten were in Cantha too. So it’s possible there’s one we don’t know about down there (either the sixth, or a seventh – I’m hoping for a Elder Celestial/Sky Dragon personally, as that’d greatly fit with the draconic theme down there – Kuunavang giving celestial skills, and having air magic-based skills outside of the typical fiery dragon breath).

The notion that the DSD isn’t among the six is interesting, though. It would mean that there could be a “rock” based dragon, going off of the name Mordramoth (used in a skill by Subject Alpha who also uses skills named after Primordus and Jormag) and a comment by skritt of an “underground rock dragon” (though the latter most likely refers to Primordus, obviously).

However, that would mean either the DSD is some good distance from Tyria (and Cantha), or that it was known by the jotun – perhaps through shared knowledge with the dwarves and forgotten (but if this is the case, then there won’t likely be an ED on Cantha unless the Sixth isn’t plant-based).

Lots of possibilities…

Eleri Tezhme.3048:

us old Myst nerds

Here here!

(just had to, Myst was a kitten fun game)

Keldrath.4735:

Having to go find npcs and talk to them all to try to piece it together

I actually like this. It’s fun to piece it all together – it allows theories and hypotheses to be formed while researching, and proven right or wrong as you continue finding more tidbits throughout.

There are some things that are related more to GW1 that aren’t so explicitly said, but that’s probably because Anet wanted GW1 players to feel like they’re returning to something they know. To get the full scope of the lore, you really have to play both games.

Kreslin.6832:

If you don’t see the reason, why we don’t need to go to Cantha, it doesn’t meant that we don’t have it.

And what make you think, that Tengu will playable race? And if it will, why humen in Cantha will be hostile for Tengu?

Story-wise, what reason is there? Charr, norn, and sylvari have nothing to gain by going to a human-centric continent across the unknown sea. I can see norn going for the pure adventure of it, and sylvari for the knowledge, but charr have no interest. I can see asura going to spread their influence (after all, they want to rule the world through commerce). Humans would have their ancestorial reasons.

But there are no (known) Elder Dragons there. There are no threats. Other than history saying the last known emperor (Usoku) was a tyrant doesn’t mean the current emperor is. Also take note that Canthan history shows emperors have an intense love to contradict their fathers’ actions (Singtah and Senvoh; Kisu and Usoku; Kaineng Tah and Yian Zho). So it stands to reason that Usoku’s son or grandson will likewise undo Usoku’s actions.

Other than simply finding out what’s happening over there, there is no reason to go there.

Why would Canthan humans be hostile to tengu? How about the whole “all non-humans were kicked out” bit, or the entire plot of Winds of Change where Canthans were treating all tengu as savage beasts just because of the Sensali’s hostility? While Reiko was killed, the Ministry of Purity remained and, as John Stumme (a developer) told us, the MoP began the mental path which lead to Usoku’s actions.

As things stand, there’s no interest in the storyline to go there – Tyria still has their own threats and worries, so the only reason why the Commander of the Pact (that’s us) will go to another land is if there’s another, brand new, threat which would require pushing through the deep sea dragon’s domain.

Legion.4198:

We know that Canthan ships are more than capable of reaching Tyria, even with the DSD in the middle.

Actually, they’re not. The fact that no ships reach Tyria’s proof of this. They can reach Tyria before hitting the risen fleets, you know (actually, the fact that only bodies wash ashore is proof that it’s not Zhaitan’s forces sinking the ships, but the DSD’s, as Zhaitan would be taking those bodies and making them risen).

Narcemus.1348:

I have to point out that I was talking about corruption, not the other guy

False:

2. Each dragon represents a corrupted aspect of a particular god:
[…]
-Dwayna is the goddess of life and purity, and Jormag seems to like corrupting others (A lot like Kralky, but whatevs).

Narcemus.1348:

Zhaitan seems to kill his enemies then attach their soul to their body and force it to do his will

I wouldn’t really say that. It seems more like the souls are merely imprisoned, not corrupted, as after the death of the body the soul is released and in their perfectly sane non-corrupted self (see: The Source of Orr personal story step)

Narcemus.1348:

On a side note, Abaddon was the god of water, which gives sense to the fact that his followers were a major group of seafarers. And that Grenth took over water magic after Abaddon was cast down, changing it to ice attunement.

This is not 100% confirmed. Also, we have learned that Grenth had always had sway over ice, even while a half-god, just as he did over mortality, sorrow, and judgment. He was, prior to being a full-blown god, the “Prince of Ice and Sorrow.”

Furthermore, after Abaddon’s death, Lyssa takes over the aspect of water (per GW2), but Grenth retains ice. And no one takes over knowledge/secrets after Abaddon’s fall, however, prior to Abaddon’s fall Grenth’s priests were known to be secret keepers. So it stands to reason that there was always a bit of an overlap, and Abaddon retained being god of both knowledge and water until his actual death, where water was thus given to Lyssa.

It’s odd that the older threads don’t show up… But anyways: wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Largos

I am inclined to agree with Benjamin Bark- Mahir on the case of Cantha.

Tengu are extremely likely, imo, to be the next playable race (with largos as second likely – again, imo), but there’s no reason for the playability of tengu to be tied to access to Cantha. Keep in mind that tengu haven’t been in Cantha for over 100 years; also keep in mind that only 2 tribes come from Cantha, whereas 3 from Tyria, and we’re told that tengu were a world-spread race (including Elona) before traveling to the Dominion of Winds.

Furthermore, there’s no direct reason to go to Cantha for most individuals. Pact as no reason, Durmand Priory has no reason (no more reason than anywhere else at least), same with the Order of Whispers and even moreso the Vigil. Charr have no reason, nor do norn, asura, or sylvari. There’s no known threat nor a known Elder Dragon in Cantha so what’s the purpose? Unless the Pact suddenly thinks along the same lines of players in the (rather baseless) notion of “Empire of the Dragon” means “there’s an Elder Dragon involved!” there’s no reason to go there unless Anet makes a currently unhinted at out-of-the-blue reason – and the only reason why they’d do this is really “just because they want to go there.”

Storywise, there’s quite a lot of places in Tyria, and Elona, that are more likely to be explored – Maguuma Wastes, Crystal Desert, Depths of Tyria, and Far Shiverpeaks being the most likely places in continental Tyria. Only Canthan-descent humans and Canthan-descent tengu have interest in Cantha as it stands.

So unless something completely unforeseen occurs, we won’t be going to Cantha for a while.

TheHiTmAn.4738:

- At the sylvari tutorial area , you will face a tree like dragon , which have no other match in the world and its totally unique … why its related to sylvari dream ?

[…]

-The sylvari knows too much about zhaitan and his powers more than any
other race (( even the older races )) , and four of them where actually key factors in defeating zhaitan
(( Trahearne , Caithe , Tegwen , Carys ))

- The pale tree knows too much things that predates the time she was
planted in earth , she knows the full history of Orr , and she also gives us hints about how to defeat Zhaitan

- The Sylvari don’t age , and there are no sylvari childern … they are
just created !!

• It’s a representation of Zhaitan
• That’s because the sylvari have been proactively studying Zhaitan. Furthermore, we don’t know how much the elder races knew about the Elder Dragons, due to little knowledge from that time still being around. Considering they were able to make a dragon champion gain free will (Glint), they probably knew a lot. I heard that the forgotten – who gave Glint free will – also had objects immune to dragon corruption.
• As said, the sylvari have been proactively studying Zhaitan – this includes studying Orr. The Pale Tree is able to study the Dream of Dreams which holds all of the memories of the sylvari. Nothing that ED-related here.
• Nothing says the ED minions don’t age either, or that corrupted living beings cannot have children (in fact, Risen Spiders are often seen laying eggs implying that they can have offspring).

Benjamin Mahir.7986:

My second point once again reiterates that what NPCs ICly believe isn’t inherently true. The statement is five versus six. At the moment we have five ancient races and five dragons. OOC we don’t know which one gets the +1. Statements like this build on our knowledge as players, but commonly accepted isn’t absolute fact in a game expecting plot twists.

Actually, we do know there are – or rather, were six Elder Dragons. Another scholar mentions how jotun stelae mentions a “sextant of swallowers.”

The question is: is this sixth Elder Dragon still even alive? And if so, is it awake and making any influence on the world?

Given that the Master of Whispers herself makes mention of Zhaitan’s death being “one fifth” of their primary goal, it would appear that one of the two questions is answered with “no” – or at the very least, that the sixth dragon isn’t a threat (yet). And yes, the Order of Whispers knows of the sixth Elder Dragon, as Scholar Trueclaw is an Order of Whispers spy.

It was explicitly stated by devs to be unrelated to the Elder Dragons when the video came out, since there was a lot of speculation it may have been tied to the DSD or Jormag (even being said dragons).

@Furienify: It should be in-game. We probably just haven’t seen it yet. Unless its for future content.

Kain Francois.4328:

Think about it. Like Zhaitan, Shiro creates undead (mutant) minions who serve him by killing the opposing forces. These were called the Afflicted and Shiro’ken.

[…]

And whereas Zhaitan used his raw strength to raise a continent (Orr), Shiro was capable of petrifying both a forest and sea!

Are they equal in power with only a difference in strength? Perhaps.

Khilbron creates undead minions who serve him by killing the opposing forces. These were called undead.

[…]

And whereas Zhaitan used his raw strength to raise a continent (false – kingdom), Khilbron was capable of burying it in the Cataclysm.

Abaddon creates demon minions who serve him by influencing individuals (foes and allies). These were called Margonites.

[…]

And whereas Zhaitan used his raw strength to raise a kingdom (Orr), Abaddon used his mind to turn Elona into a twisted nightmare, and was able to defeat two gods before he was struck down.

In seriousness though, Shiro was empowered by gods’ powers when he caused the Jade Wind (he used a dark ritual to absorb and alter magic granted by Dwayna to the emperor – intended to be spread among the people), and he was only able to create the Afflicted and Shiro’ken by being able to control souls – a power granted to him by Suun, Oracle of the Mists, when Shiro was made an Envoy. The entire time, Shiro was backed by Abaddon from the Realm of Torment.

If Zhaitan and Shiro went head to head, Zhaitan would crush Shiro like a bug – backed by a god or not.

Narcemus.1348:

Shiro never directly worked for Abaddon, unlike the Lich Lord. Instead Shiro was coerced into his actions by a fortune teller that you later learn was a demonic servant of Abaddon.

While living, Shiro never directly worked for Abaddon – however, after death he was.

Kain Francois.4328:

But if Shiro can only corrupt the living, how did he corrupt the spirits of Cantha’s heroes and bound them into Shiroken? Example: Vizu. You know.. Those bosses you fought in Tahnakai temple.

Does Zhaitan corrupt corpses whereas Shiro can corrupt the living, dead, and spirits?

He can’t influence the living directly – the living can fall to the plague that his presence brings, but that’s more of a side-affect. Furthermore, he doesn’t really control the dead, merely controls the souls inhabiting the corpses.

Shiro’s powers as an Envoy seem to match that of the Scepter of Orr, but on a lesser scale – control of the ethereal (in Shiro’s case, souls).

God’s Hand is just a group of large trees, and God’s Skull is a cliff with a face chiseled out of it (doesn’t look natural to me from my memory).

Legion.4198:

I find difficult to believe that Arenanet will make the extermination of these monsters nothing but pest control when they were hyped to be global extinction level event. I agree that making the central point of the storyline would be as boring, but I think it would be a mistake to downplay their threat or impact in the world. Even if we move on to new threats, I think the dragons should be left as the background and perhaps the basic motivation for the future antagonists.

The Pact advances also cause a serious problem of escalation for any threat less menacing than a Dragon. If we face Palawa Joko or the Canthan Empire as enemies, then they will need to be even more powerful and technological or magical advanced than the Pact or even the ED. I doubt the Pact won’t follow us as the second in command, unless it is dissolved o gets bogged down/crushed by one or more of the Dragons.

This is assuming that all of the Elder Dragons will be killed. It may turn out to be that some are unreachable for xyz reason. I think that, at most, only 3 more ED will be killed: Kralkatorrik, Jormag, and possibly Primordus. I think that the DSD, the sixth Elder Dragon and, if not killed, Primordus will remain as “ever present threats” (because lets face it, going underground would be somewhat boring for an entire expansion, whereas Jormag can take us to the Isles of Janthir, Blood Legion Homelands, and even the arctic seas; and Kralkatorrik can lead us into Elona or the east – DSD would be fun, but I don’t think anyone really wants an expansion that’s 90% underwater combat).

The issue of the Pact can be easily solved – their sole purpose is to fight the Elder Dragons, as is the Vigil’s. Once the ED are gone – or at least mostly so – the Pact, and perhaps the Vigil, will also be gone. Furthermore, the Pact has technology specifically made for fighting Elder Dragons, so whatever they have may be useless to fight Joko or the most-likely-to-be technologically advanced Cantha (I just can’t see them going in any other direction considering their population problems and love of military might from Usoku).

@ Stumpy Boulderchunk.6482 Major issue with that is that the tie between Dwayna and Jormag is pretty much non-existing. Furthermore, color-wise, as your argument suggestions, Jormag would be Kormir (both are white) and Dwayna would be the DSD (both are blue), which further doesn’t make sense. Furthermore, Lyssa and Kralkatorrik have little in common outside color, and even Abaddon has purple.

Your power/corruption argument also fails with Lyssa/Kralkatorrik since Zhaitan and Jormag also corrupt the mind.

Abaddon wasn’t the god of ice – ever.

Then you have the fact that in the personal story step “Cathedral of Silence” it’s outright stated that Grenth is opposing to Zhaitan. Grenth seems to be active, and it seems that the gods aren’t actually silent, but rather they are just “elsewhere.” Where that elsewhere is, is unknown (just that it’s not in The Mists).

Except that mursaat predate humanity on Tyria. And those “air-gills” don’t really come off as a parasite to me. But that’s my opinion. However, I think that if the mursaat appeared differently before humans, we’d have heard of this by now (even if just in the Arah EM mursaat path).

@ Tuomir Except that it wasn’t a corrupted creature, no destroyer is. It’s a destroyer that was creating other destroyers via eggs. Read the personal story overview in the Hero Panel

@Swish: Forgotten don’t predate jotun to our knowledge.

I don’t think it was stated the mursaat had anything to do with the bloodstones’ creation. Though I haven’t done the Arah explorable mode dungeon in full yet.

@Warriors of Asgard: The seers made the bloodstone, the gods found it, used it to grant magic, and then split it to reduce magic. Arah explorable mode.

Kaona.9105:

That is common troll knowledge as in basically what R.A. Salvador defined for them (http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Troll) This is why I am asking for lore behind them, if there is none (like right now) than its what I have to go by. Yes, the forgotten realms trolls are not the same trolls in this game, however it is the “common” lore for the species and how it works if there is none that exists currently. This is why I am asking for some source of info on this.

Never use another game’s lore to explain things in Guild Wars. GW’s lore is fairly different in just about everything.

Just because there isn’t (much) lore on something, doesn’t mean that another modern-but-not-original story’s lore will be the case. In fact, most of the time (if not all of the time), that’s not the case.

Kaona.9105:

For example 5 random people make the difference in a fight with an elder dragon… 5 random people… but basically to the point where the dead have to die and a very small force taking on an elder dragon, but they both still have to die for the game to continue on.

What game did you play? Because it was five individuals led by the Commander (second-in-command) of the fight, allied with Destiny’s Edge, who have personal experience in fighting Elder Dragons and their champions.

Oh, and an army of airships, one of which (the Glory of Tyria) being a super-airship with freaking laser beams capable of cutting Elder Dragons in half.

I found a device much like that somwhere… now I can’t remember where though – I think in Orr? Not sure. But there was no lore on it either.

Eleri Tezhme.3048:

Why is that troll just lying there in Lion’s Arch?

Why doesn’t the Scrying Pool still work?

How could the thing in Kessex Hills be an observatory, when it is all underground?

It’s dead.

It’s flooded/broken/the character doesn’t know how to use it.

It’s a collapsed observatory. If you complete the jumping puzzle, you’ll see the dome of it is literally upsidedown.

Legion.4198:

The dragons won’t be deal that quickly

I disagree for a few reasons:

1) Storywise, the Pact have made huge advancements to fighting the Elder Dragons – they’ve made weapons that killed Zhaitan, and they searched Arah and found various relics about the ED. It would be silly for them to not press their advantage and go after other Elder Dragons immediately.
2) Now that one ED has been killed, I doubt the others will sit still.
3) From a development perspective, it’d be very boring to drag out the ED plot over so long. Either they’re going to get them out of the window quickly, or they won’t touch them at all. However, originally ArenaNet wanted Guild Wars to be done in sets of 3 – that’s why Nightfall was a conclusion and link for Prophecies and Factions. Similarly, we now have Eye of the North, Guild Wars 2 initial release, and then there will be the next expansion. Thus, if they’re following that original plan still, the second expansion will be the closure for the Elder Dragon story, just as NF was the closure for the Forgotten Gods story.

Legion.4198:

Worse if we defeat them all at once before the “ending of Gw2” because then they would like just as a pale excuse to keep Tyria isolated from the rest of the world.

I disagree since we now know their weaknesses. Once you know the opponents’ weaknesses, you can focus on that and exploit them, thus making them easier to beat.

I actually really enjoyed this fight. It reminded me of fighting Khilbron in Prophecies, but on a more difficult and epic scale. The only issue I had was that he disappeared a bit too quickly on the edges (he waits until you arrive/hit him in 2 of the 3 spots he goes to, before disappearing again) and that if you distance yourself too far (leave the room) then his health automatically and completely reset. When I did the mission, I was having issues with doing enough damage due to my skill bar, so I backed up to redesign it, excepting him to slowly regen like everyone else. Instead, instant reset and I wasn’t out of combat mode yet.

But it wasn’t a big deal, really. And once I changed my build, he went down far faster than before.

I disagree on the “no threat to your health” – I got downed a few times, and I was specced for power, toughness, and condition damage. Only didn’t wipe because Trahearne kept reviving me.

Funny, I got all three of those, not a choice of one.

And when you’re level 80, in a dungeon, instant repait canisters are huge life and money savers.

• No thanks
• Maybe x to y and y to x amounts, I don’t think 1 karma=1 copper in value; maybe a 50 karma=1copper, but only to keep the chance of inflation low (and similarly, 1 copper=10 karma, to prevent easily obtaining karma items)
• Not really sure what you’re asking here…
• No no no no no no no. Do not cater to gold selling sites. Bad idea is horribad. Third party groups should be avoided when basing game stuff. Especially gold selling-related things seeing how thats a bannable offense in the first place.
• No, per point made by Draeka
• Not sure what’s being asked here…
• First: Better low level gear? Pass. Using low level gear skins for high level gear skins? Sure. Even better high level gear? Pass. Race-specific recipies? No – Anet’s made it a firm point to make races equal, or as equal as possible, so that would go against Anet’s philosophy on the matter.
• Why? What benefit does this have? None. Just select the waypoint you want – as almost every settlement has a waypoint anyways.
• No point for achievements, not helpful with story (I’d rather have a “repeat mission” button added to the Story panel in the Hero window)
• Yes, except the crystals part? Surely you mean gemstones?
• Yes! A preview option for the trading post is definitely a good thing, and the only real good suggestion you’ve given thus far.
• Don’t PvP enough to comment.
• Sure, why not. Could also use a Crafting Component box for the things you make from crafting before the actual item
• As far as I can tell, there is no party leader. Except when going into instances in which it’s a case of “instance owner” and not “party leader.”
• No complaints, not really needed though. People should be careful when buying dungeon reward items.
• No point in either – you can simply LFG in /map and there’s no trading in GW2 (it’s all done via trade post) so a trade chat is 100% pointless.
• No need.
• Yes please – first person perspective is something I feel is really lacking in GW2.
• Eh…
• Nah.
• Not sure the purpose of this is – perhaps because I don’t play other MMOs often enough.
• Unnecessary but not harmful.
• Completely pointless – we can always see our own health, why do we need to see our own name exactly?
• Eh…
• No. No no no. Why no? Because no. Well, really, because I prefer the balance and tactical value of the current dungeons. When folks zerg, things get relatively boring, especially when things are designed for zerging – I don’t want something that has 10,000,000,000 health just to withstand 20 players. I’ve never felt the interest in raiding dungeons. And this goes moreso since GW2 is more about effects in their skills than any other games, thus there’s more particles per person, therefore more lag with more people faster.
• …What’s the point of this exactly? There is none. And it messes with the balance the game has set up already. Far more work for the benefit of: nothing.
• Eh; unnecessary; TP is good enough.
• Future updates:
  • No thanks, don’t need mounts.
  • Eh…
  • Eh…
  • Unneeded; Could be useful – but I’d rather have Guild Airships; guild halls into minis cities? No thanks, not in a persistent world; there’s already guild armor and weapons, quests don’t exist in GW2.
  • shrug
• Gonna ignore WvW pointers, don’t WvW enough to care
• Sounds like you want Guild Wars 2 to be Vanguard 2. I don’t want “special bonuses” to things – and it won’t happen. There’s a reason why Legendaries are only about cool affects, so unless those “special bonuses” are to appearances, then don’t want.
• More gemstore items are going to be added irregardless, so no point in suggesting such; I don’t want bags to be forced to purchase via the gemstore – it’s pointless nerfing to crafting.
• Probably a bit too hard to do.

Arius.7031:

While I feel for guardians, the bigger picture is more important here. Karma is not restricted to WvW, making it Karma would allow people who have never done WvW to become Commanders, which is possibly detrimental to the server and in my opinion people who haven’t done WvW don’t deserve the title. Yes, commander can be used in PvE, but it’s almost entirely useless in that setting. It’s very important to WvW, and can really harm a server if too many people get it (not to mention we don’t want billions of commanders running around).

I’d agree except for the fact that commanders are not only for WvW, but for directing larger groups in PvE as well.