Guild Wars 2

I’d also like to know why Thorn hates harpies, ettin, and tengu. And why he fears termites (assuming it’s not because he has a pumpkin for a head). Lots of potential lore to still learn on him.

What Yata said – the NPC being a heart NPC in Caledon Forest.

Oh yeah, I forgot about those buggers. /endlamepun

There’s nothing in Zone Green linked to the Pale Tree (that binary code meaning Pale Tree was false and is instead “End Transmission Sequence”).

As to minion intelligence – it varies on how much energy the dragon puts into the minion, at least for Zhaitan. The more magic, the stronger and more intelligent it is – this is why the Eyes and Mouths of Zhaitan are among the strongest and most intelligent. But as you said, an entire race full of free will, intelligence, and even disobedience (Nightmare Court, Soundless) and a separate tree (Malyck’s) which functions differently indicates not an ED or champion.

Actually yes, you can – at the end of the level 38, I believe, story step – once the issue with Demmi is settled and you’re chosing your racial sympathy. In the instance you chose your racial sympathy, you can ask Doern if he’s from Kryta where he goes “No, no – wait, yes! Kryta, the human nation, right?” Where you then get the dialogue option “You don’t look Elonian, Canthan perhaps?” And he responds with a “that’s classified information” or something. I don’t recall the exact wording, but he makes it pretty obvious he’s not from continental Tyria.

Except that the Fissure of Woe (aka Realm of War) isn’t a world. It’s a realm – like the Heart of the Mists, the Rift, the Underworld, the Realm of Torment, or WvW areas. It’s a large piece of land in the Mists, where spirits roam. Part of the afterlife.

Thing about dungeons is that the “army” (or affiliation by GWW terminology) is the same. That is to say, mechanically they are all allied in dungeons irregardless – very similar to GW1 elite area armies, there’s one ally NPC army, and there’s one enemy NPC army.

In lore, we’re told that not only are the Elder Dragons not allied with each other, but that their minions do fight each other the rare times they encounter one another.

As I posted on the Guru2 thread, I think this in fact pushes the sylvari further away from the Elder Dragon connection hypothesis. Why? Elder Dragons – and their minions – do not eat in a traditional sense. They do not devour flesh. They feast on magic and magic alone.

Therefore, the craving for meat is not a tie to the Elder Dragons.

I don’t recall any mandragors that you had to kill twice. Outside resurrecting enemies, only krait might have done such with their metamorphosis skill.

Well, do we even know how old gargoyles are? And for that matter, something doesn’t have to be older than you to influence you. :P

Way after both. Gargoyles disappeared in 1185 AE, Primordus awoke in 1120 AE. But still, people had made a small connection in the past. :P Not that I think it’s likely.

In fact, I’d go so far as to say that 1185 AE may have been the last time that Oswald Thorn appeared on Tyria prior to this year, and that’s why the Gargoyles disappeared. Though I think it’s been said Thorn wasn’t seen in “over 250 years” (which in of itself is slightly false, considering he was seen in either 1079 or 1080 – 245/6 years prior to GW2).

Actually, my reason for that was the apparent love of people suspecting that the gargoyle’s disappearance is due to the Elder Dragons – similarly, folks tie them with the underground, and they’re made of stone and now with a fiery appearance….

On a quick search, didn’t find this brought up.

Having completed Victory or Death, I no longer have a green marker – perfectly fine. However, an issue comes in when I inter any kind of non-personal story/dungeon instance – home instance or otherwise. Examples I’m meaning: Caer Aval, Seraph Headquarters, Snaff Memorial Lab, all home instances, Knut Whitebear’s Loft, etc. The only instance I can enter and leave normally is Chantry of Secrets (I actually haven’t tested the Vigil or Durmand Priory instances, however).

This, I believe, is tied directly to the lack of the said green marker – having a personal story active is a requirement to normally leave instanced areas. The only way to leave them otherwise is by waypointing or logging off of that character. This needs to be fixed, as it’s rather annoying.

I don’t think the Elder Dragons exist outside Tyria, though it’s a possibility. I’d say it’s minute. I don’t think Dhuum would care enough about Tyria to bother, tbh.

Divinity’s Reach didn’t exist during Thorn’s reign. Why would it be redecorated by his magic? Lion’s Arch is where Oswald Thorn lived – it’s where the royal palace was, after all. Gendarran, Queensdale, and Kessex are all his territory when he lived.

I never quite understood why Droknar’s Forge and Tomb of the Primeval Kings got decorations, outside of being player hubs that is. With that understanding, then decorating LA and the Mists is all that’s needed tbh.

@HappyDale: Never stated, we just know of 2 seals.

It’s a possibility. I suspect given the supposed chaos of the Underworld (creatures spilling out from them in three places weak between Tyria and the Underworld, and the Reaper who appears in the personal story being weak) that Dhuum has broken free, perhaps causing trouble in the afterlife and is the reason why resurrection no longer exists.

Fun thing to note: the skeletons under Thorn’s employ are very similar in ability to the Skeletons and Champions of Dhuum (the bow and axe guys).

Whoever said Drakkar’s a dragon? It could be a corrupted now-extinct sea creature. The thing always looked like a huge kitten mandragor to me though.

He’s related to an event to kill a Veteran Krait… something. Nimross? The event takes place right outside the cave – between it and Stygian Deeps. I happened upon it too. He’s unrelated to the contents of the cave itself.

For some reason, I forgot that Branded Fish uses a twisted Barracuda model (whereas Icebrood Fish, like Risen Fish, use Gulper Fish models). That’s definitely the Branded Fish model; what’s interesting to note, however, is that its abilities is “Chill” and it uses ice attacks.

This is most likely an oversight on model use by the developers.

I doubt it (there’s over a million people playing the game after all, and I bet only a small fraction bother with documenting stuff). A lot of people knew of Windy Caves, but it only just recently got an achievement in the Halloween patch. I think most of those achievements are of pre-existing locations/things. Though I wouldn’t be surprised if very few knew of that cave – Orr’s not a really popular place to go about exploring without reason or a lot of patience.

As did skelk, drakes, giants, and quite a few other creatures.

Though what makes me curious is the fiery look on them.

(waits patiently for the “they’re tied to Primordus” speculatory shouts)

Are you sure they’re not Icebrood Fish? They have very similar models, iirc.

You’re ignoring the “500th anniversary” – this indicates that he was, indeed, killed in 825 AE.

Hmm, it could be that whatever reason the humans and Six Gods came to Tyria was a threat – given what the Orrian History Scrolls say on Lyssa particularly, and possibly given the bit on Balthazar too (I don’t recall exact wording, but Balthazar stepped from the Mists carrying his father’s head – though it’s not shown to be out of victory or sorrow – and Lyssa is said to be helping the people forget their past and make them happy, indicating a sorrowful past). This makes me think there was a threat they fled from.

If this is so, the Six Gods may have feared that threat following them to Tyria and went into the Mists to fight it. Given that the human priests – one of which being a very credible source (Priestess Rhei, the foremost priestess of Grenth in modern day and the one who first tells us Grenth’s the son of Dwayna and a mortal sculptor) – say that the Six Gods are not in the Mists, it’s also possible that the Six Gods decided to “start from scratch” and the History of Tyria is right in that they went to create (or terraform) other worlds.

Males don’t have leaves covering their chest. They have no nipples. Observe:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/7/76/Sylvari_figged_render.jpg

As far as I know, the only comment on Mellaggan and Melandru being the same was a slip up by Colin. Unless you can provide a source, I don’t think we have any actual confirmation they’re the same.

There’s still a huge distance between. Including the Crystal Desert being between the two.

TheCelt.1394:

Someone named Glint would like to have a word with you.

A race who created a powerful free will giving spell known as the forgotten, and a power known as “telepathy” would like a word with you.

Having just found a door which has Gargoyles, I’ll first say they don’t look at all like GW1 gargoyles. They were using the griffon and rock dog frames, but a new skin to make them look more… destroyer like, tbh. A mixture of rock and red glows.

It made me remember concept art I saw titled Gargoyle, though not the same rather similar in concept:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/e/e2/Gargoyle_concept_art.jpg

Firstly, it is the belief of human scholars that Mellaggan=Melandru. The quaggan disagree greatly, nor is it proven fact.

One pastkeeper says Mellaggan was killed by the krait. Only pastkeeper we meet, as far as I know – pastkeepers are the priests of Mellaggan, more or less.

I find it extremely unlikely the Six Gods are still on Tyria – people would know if they were. Just as they know they’re not in the Mists.

So I managed to get through this (hint: multiple people help, as any one person has to deactivate the panels; hint 2: there’s actually a secret way around the field which a guildie found).

It gives “The Long Way Around” achievement in the explorer achievements, and the scholar Fryxx says that he’s studying the bones of long-dead creatures to help garner clues of the nature of Zhaitan. Said bones are what were discussed in another thread, where people suspect they are Leviathan skeletons (issue being the size, though perspective of the that video could throw folks off).

BrunoBRS.5178:

how would you even know? they have leaves covering their stuff. and what would be the point of nipples if they can’t breastfeed because they’re not mammals? and why do these creepy questions keep showing up when i login?

We got confirmation from the developers that they do indeed have genitalia.

The reason they don’t have nipples is because they don’t have mammary glands.

Verteiron.8734:

Do we know for certain that they don’t? If the Sylvari are to experience the full range of sensuality experienced by the other races (and all indications are that they can and do) then they need nipples. Presumably they’re hidden under strategically-placed leaves like everything else.

Look at male sylvari topless. No nipples.

Sylvari intro video has a female without the leaves covering – no nipples either, side view.

Ludovicus.7980:

Well. I think they have, but they’re covered by leaves. Sylvari were made in the form of humans. The pale tree is obsessed with the Ronon and Ventari.
I wonder why don’t we have centaur sylvari…

Because the Pale Tree didn’t actively chose the sylvari shapes. That’s how they are – if that’s not the case, explain Malyck.

I’m pretty sure Primordus’ name is just a reference to him being the first to awaken. It’s kinda like taking Jormag’s name, saying it’s a reference to Jörmungandr, and saying he’s able to circle the entire world because of that, to say that Primordus’s use of prime in the name means “best” therefore Primordus is the strongest.

@Ludovicus: The statue that seeped power wasn’t the Great Destroyer. It was Primordus.

Uhm, Varesh never went to Orr – she died in the Desolation, in Elona.

That’s likely just the same thing as the “face” in the lake above the Maguuma Jungle (which was made less like a face in GW2’s final map). E.g., an optical illusion.

Why do cats – living or dead – chase smaller animals? Food, playing with, etc. (Cats can be quite sadistic if you really think about how they “play” with their food until it dies).

Alfa wasn’t in GW1 as far as I know, and I believe you mean Foefire. Which we do see Ghostly Cows in one personal story (honorable soldier charr storyline) – though past this and summoned minions, no such animals were affected by the Foefire. Remember not everything was treated equally – charr were only affected inside Ascalon City itself, being outright killed, whereas the rest were perfectly fine. Cows seem protective of certain ruins (so are some ghosts, but cows seem to only go hostile when certain ruins are disturbed). Alfa just… plays with a frog. Eternally. Forever and always.

I’d imagine weed killer would be super effective against sylvari. /endjoke

As Bruno said, I haven’t seen any racial-specific poisons mentioned.

BrunoBRS.5178:

we can’t tell for sure. we also don’t know how much the souls of the dead influenced the seed, or even the place it was planted. there are inumerous factors that could have affected the outcome. the ritual is just the known way to do it, and it’s obviously more immediate and powerful (since it works on a full grown champion, rather than take hundreds of years and starts before the champion is even created).

However, given Malyck, his tree would also have to go through these to be a dragon minion like the claims – however, he and his tree were uninfluenced by Ventari, were, as far as we know, not buried on a human graveyard (we have no indication if this had any actual effect anyways), nor does it seem to have a tie to the Dream of Dreams (thus may not have influence from the Nightmare, Wyld Hunts, etc.).

I disagree on the claim that the gods Thruln talks about not being the Six Gods. For two reasons: Firstly, there is only one pantheon that’s old enough to count as what’s Thruln is talking about (yes, Koda, the Great Dwarf, and Mellaggan exist, but they’re just a single deity to the culture and thus are exempt from possibilities), the titans and mursaat both claimed to be gods, but not early enough in history (and the jotun would know the later to not be so). Then there’s the fact that these gods favored the Six Gods – but there is no favored gods outside the Six/Five (depending on timeframe) and mursaat, which again the latter is not the reference. So either Thruln is talking about something that is never hinted at nor implied in any fashion whatsoever, or he’s talking about the Six Gods.

Regarding your speculation – that’s all fine and dandy, except for the fact that we know that the scholars and spellcasters died after the beginning of these wars (or so our sources on the matter claim), however Thruln doesn’t talk about the death of individuals – he talks about the inability to use magic. Magic was taken from them, not lost like the deaths of spellcasters would lead to. This is a case of cause and effect, and Thruln is switching them around from all other sources. And speculation is speculation – and such is pointless when we’re told by historians and blog posts that they lost magic during their in-fighting, not before.

On to the grawl comparison – even if it’s not literal, there’s still a fairly vast difference between the modern grawl and history humans. Grawl are not united, they worship oddly shaped rocks and elementals, they hold less intelligence compared to other races, they have next to no real architecture – and certainly not enough to build boats to ship entire nations worth of people. Even if it’s taken from a figurative sense, calling humans “like grawl” is either a huge insult or falsity.

King Doric was the first king of Tyria, and all royalty of the three kingdoms are of his bloodline. So it’s more a case of having a tie to the first king.

No, but now I have reason to head back into Straits of Devastation outside using this fancy new Pact Token I got from the update.

BrunoBRS.5178:

i always forget that guild wars is one of those games you can’t shorten “underground world” >.>

You can always shorten it to “Depths” (or Depths of Tyria) – the actual in-game name for them. :P

BrunoBRS.5178:

we did, after all, have tremors caused by destroyers as far as elona and cantha (remember how you got to boreal station? my canthan assassin does).

That’s more of mechanical cases. We know that the quests from Nightfall to Factions and Prophecies, and from Factions to Prophecies with their little “time travel” are purely mechanical so that new characters can get to old content too, these are the same.

Or do you claim that Vekk, Ogden, and all those dwarves, structures, and destroyers are all simultaneously beneath Lion’s Arch, Kamadan, and Kaineng City – and that Ogden knows they’re under these cities. And even if you do claim that, for some reason, keep in mind that those were cut off by asura gates being destroyed.

BrunoBRS.5178:

if cities weren’t supposed to be permanent safe zones, i wouldn’t doubt we’d see primordus and his army of destroyers crawling out of the great chasm (poor foundation my kitten there’s something else about that huge hole).

I suspect bandits (in turn WM). Though I’ve heard destroyers before. Reason: Shining Blade knew of it before it happened, and they’re all about keeping tabs on the WM even in modern times.

Bard.7215:

I know I saw a video promoting primordus. Still, even if the Zhaitain was the only one to get the spotlight in the promotions, it doesn’t take away any of the build up surrounding primordus.

If you did, it was fan-made. First one opened with Zhaitan, there was concept art of Primordus that flashed for about 2-3 seconds, somewhere in the middle, but that was the only cameo he got in the first one. Second one didn’t include him at all. Nor did the third. Even destroyers were lacking from, all three I believe.

And, uh, I’m pretty sure the lack of build-up takes away from the build-up when there was expected to be some.

Bard.7215:

Primordus awakening being relatively unknown until the subterranean races surfaced just adds to the suspense.

So what you’re saying is that if he makes a big entrance, he’s the Big Bad. But if he doesn’t make a big entrance, he’s the Big Bad.

Right, perfect logic.

Bard.7215:

Also, he’s the fire/magma dragon, those are always saved for last :P

Funny, lava creatures were first in the first storyline (titans), and the last was actually water, secrets, tentacles, and insanity (Abaddon). Who’s name was also unknown until he made his move, chessmaster style.

Sounds like the DSD all over again, just without the whole “the earlier villains were just underlings of a long forgotten something!”

For the record, I don’t see Kralkatorrik being the final one.

Truth be told, I wouldn’t be shocked one bit if we just kill Jormag and Kralkatorrik and then go on to new threats, leaving destroyers and the DSD (and the Sixth, perhaps) as “mysterious threats still out there” – why? Anet has repeatedly said they don’t want to close open doors too much, Jeff Grubb hates that they did that with the mursaat and Abaddon, and worked to re-open the former while couldn’t with the latter (though they’re still expanding his lore, obviously). Furthermore, it’d be boring as hell if the primary target of five consecutive plotlines were Elder Dragon, Elder Dragon, Elder Dragon, Elder Dragon, and Elder Dragon.

That’s actually the reason why I believe the Inquest have entered an alliance with the Nightmare Court. They get assistants for handling dragon minions and draconic energies, Nightmare Court gets more torture (sadistic/masochists that they are), and the Inquest probably get the double helping of studying sylvari immunity.

And by the curiosity being satiated, I actually meant for the initial experiments – you don’t really need to dissect a sylvari to find out why they’re immune to dragon corruptions, and the vast majority of asura would frown upon such just as much as they’d frown upon doing the same to humans because they originate from the Mists.

“The relationship between norn and Jotun I believe is stated somewhere in something reguarding the history of Jotun.”

You presented there being a relation between norn and jotun as fact, that’s what I meant.

As to your claim of no fallibility for Thruln’s belief about the gods’ opinion on humans – are you saying that his claim has shown no fallibility, or that him being wrong is infallible? Because if you want to see in-game claims which contradict him, read the Orrian History Scrolls found in Shelter Docks of Malchor’s Leap (eastern edge of the map, near the portal to Straits of Devastation if you didn’t know) which outright state that the gods brought humanity to the world. Or, alternatively, scroll up a few posts of mine and look for the links to two different interviews – one between Ree Soesbee and GuildMag, the other between Jeff Grubb and Kill Ten Rats – which outright states that the Six Gods brought humanity to the world. This is also claimed by a multitude of scholars – some of which going “it was originally believed Tyria was made by the Six Gods, but now we know this is not true, what is true is that humans were brought to the world by the Six Gods” in various forms. Though admittedly some of those scholars are not entirely trustworthy (same level of trustworthiness as Thruln).

I never claimed Thruln was a completely wrong source, by the way – nor, do I think, did Bruno. I merely stated that Thruln – and mind you not Thruln alone – has been proven wrong in multiple fronts of his knowledge (magic causing their downfall; humans not recognized by the Six Gods; and humans arriving like grawl), and as such the remainder of his knowledge should be put in question, rather than Thruln being true where other sources are wrong (I in fact claim the very same thing about the Orrian History Scrolls which, outside being wrong about the true names of Lyssa, has claimed that humans were brought to the world at Arah, which makes no sense considering the timeline – though the Orrian History Scrolls have shown fewer inconsistencies overall, given that they discuss far more than just the Six Gods (they also discuss Kings Doric, Reza, and Zoran, the Third Guild Wars and Orr’s involvement, the relation of Orrians and magic, Malchor, and… I think one other topic)).

Given what we know of the history of Tyria, I am both skeptacle of and finding it likely that the Age of Giants existed – on one hand, we know there were five surviving sentient races from the Elder Dragons, though one fled the world on their own accord (mursaat) and a second were mostly wiped out (seers); however, despite this there were still the dwarves and forgotten – and the forgotten we know were called caretakers of the world. In fact, Thruln’s claim for what the jotun did is exactly what we are told the forgotten did. However, in support of Thruln’s claim, we’re told that ogres are an ancient race as well, though we know little more on this (or rather I haven’t seen such brought up – there’s the racial sympathy which may enlighten it, but everything I’ve seen in the persistent wold only expands on their modern culture). If an Age of Giants existed, then it would have likely included the ogres and the actual giants (the ogres, by the way, were implied to hold historical ties with the jotun by Ree Soesbee in the jotun blog post – I think I mentioned this, actually).

But my main point is this: Three things Thruln claims are known to be false, one thing is known to be right (magic was chaotic during the last reign of the ED), and three are unknown (Age of Giants, jotun/norn alliance, favored by gods). Though while indications of the Age of Giants go 50/50 IMO, and there’s nothing else supporting or denying a co-existence between jotun and norn (outside the biography option calling jotun “ancient enemies”), there’s indications saying that jotun society fell before the Six Gods arrived on Tyria – but no proof, mere indications.

This is what I’ve been getting at.

Allow me to correct what you’ve heard: Queen Jennah is the last KNOWN descendant of Queen Salma and is the last known individual of Krytan royalty.

The statements of her being the last known descendant of King Doric was before we knew that Commander Wade Sammuelsson was a descendent of Ascalonian royalty. Though not Krytan royalty.

I don’t know where you’re seeing these references, but there’s likely an implied “known” somewhere in there. Considering how royalty in such settings are, there’s likely a lot of royal-blood individuals out there. They just don’t know it – or can’t claim their heritage due to illegitimacy (depending on how Krytan/Ascalonian claims on heritage works in regards to nobility).

Yes yes, that’s all very plausible – to varying degrees. However, that’s highly stretching the meaning of his words. And my point still stands:

Thruln’s dialogue shows inaccuracies with known confirmed factual lore. Whether this is because he was wrong, he was told wrong, he worded things poorly, or he intentionally lied is up to debate. However, what is known is that at least four gods were favoring humans – three of which since they appeared from the Mists – these four gods being Dwayna, Balthazar, Melandru, and Lyssa (the first three being from the Mists themselves). Balthazar himself wanted the world for humanity – and won the argument thus since bringing humans to Tyria, humanity had forcifully spread (Balthazar believed the other races would fall easily to humanity). Or so say our more-credible-than-Thruln-but-still-faulty source on Balthazar’s history (to clarify on that: this information comes from the Durmand Priory, done via research on Orrian history and not by oral tradition of ancient long-lost history, however it has shown one false piece of information – though it’s uncertain whether deliberate or accidental by the developers (the source – the Orrian History Scrolls – call the individuals making Lyssa Lys and Issa, however they are Lyss and Ilya).

To reiterate my sole point in all of this:
Thruln is not unfallible, and there is at least one piece of evidence proven wrong by him (whether he knows it or not), and that is that the gods paid no care to humans when they first arrived. As such, other things not supported by other sources may be false (just as they may be truth). Therefore, using that as your sole undeniable evidence for a claim (as you did here ) is fallible.

[quote=501818;Bard.7215:When you have a “tier” of enemies presented, generally the one with the most symbolic or impactull wording is an indicator of the big bad. In the Guild Wars 2promotion video’s it generally starts with Primordus awakening and causing the world havic, as if he was harbringer of horrors to come. This could go for the “last to arise”, but this is not only rare for this trope, but Krakkletoric is only really flushed out as the mad dragon with personal issues towards a runaway minion, While Primordus is literally sending minions bursting out of the ground in such a manner that you cou;dn’t possible imagine what true power lies under the earth.

Primordus is being flushed out as the dragon who really wants to consume everything, No coastal minion collecting.. no messing with norns through propoganda, no chasing down renegade minions, he’s in it to win it.[/quote]Firstly, there is no tier – all Elder Dragons are, supposedly, equal.

Secondly, GW2’s promotional videos did not start with Primordus – but solely Zhaitan.

Thirdly, Primordus’ awakening was mostly unknown to the population, if I recall correctly – mostly thanks to the dwarves. Outside them, only the Order of Whispers knew it until races were forced to the surface (keep in mind, the asura were already on the surface – so the “races were forced to the surface” refers to skritt, murrellows, and skelk mostly).

Fourthly, all Elder Dragons want to consume everything – though Primordus is more of “destroy all life” where the others are more of “assimilate all life I can, kill the rest” – though the DSD, who also thus far as not corrupted living beings to our knowledge by the way, is unknown in this regard.

I also fail to see why chasing after Glint upon awakening reduces the quality of Kralkatorrik – if you’re “in it to win” as you say, wouldn’t removing the creature that knows the most about you, and betrayed you, be the first step? So that it cannot aid your other enemies (and its allies)? Then again, Primordus did the exact same thing 250 years before Kralkatorrik could.

BrunoBRS.5178:

as for kralk, he’s losing minions on the brand

Also gaining – there’s quite a few events and NPCs that talk about the Dragonbrand spreading and more branded creatures coming from seemingly no where. The Branded are spreading

BrunoBRS.5178:

he owns the entire underworld. that’s a whole lot more area to create minions than the branded crystal desert, or the entire brand for that matter.

Underground* (Underworld=afterlife :P); but speculative. We see minimal destroyer influence in Ascalon, and the only indication of Primordus having such are long-hibernating destroyers met in Edge of Destiny, who, based on the fact they were fighting dwarves, were there from a long time ago – the lack of any other destroyers in the region indicate that they were a long-detacted group. Primordus’ area of influence is primarily in southern Shiverpeaks at the moment (Mount Maelstrom area), with only some scattered between there and Harathi Hinterlands/Brisban Wildlands. Basically, he has Kryta and bordering areas above him. Zhaitan has not only Orr, but the Ring of Fire and the southwestern Crystal Desert (had, rather); Jormag has not only the Far Shiverpeaks, but stretching all the way into the arctic seas (which based on the world map – however accurate or inaccurate it may be, that’s a large area), and is continuously pushing south. The DSD’s influence is completely unknown, but it pushed the krait from the depths of the Unending Ocean all the way to Tyria – and I somehow doubt the deepest parts of the Unending Ocean is relatively close to Tyria.

If memory serves me me right, Kudu was the one who experimented on Melamodies – though I can’t recall where I heard this, and I’d imagine that if I remember correctly, that this may be why Snaff stopped being Kudu’s master/teacher. Furthermore, I wouldn’t really say “the curiosity wasn’t satiated.”

Except that there’s nothing magical about Ventari’s teachings or Ventari’s Tablet. It’s mere philosophy. And given the Arah path, the ritual/spell seems to be very powerful (we actually cast it during the dungeon, I hear believe, and it takes quite some effort to do so).

Bard, some things Thruln says are true – humans did, as far as we know, arrive on ships and settle on the shore originally. However, his claim that the humans didn’t have the favor of the gods until after they established kingdoms is outright proven to be false.

Take note that I never once said everything Thruln the Lost says is false or lies. I said simply that he’s not a credible source. Everything he says should be taken with a grain of salt until other evidence supplies support. Primarily, the things in question are threefold: 1) Was losing magic tied into the jotun civilization’s fall (if so, how)? 2) Was there an Age of Giants and was the norn really part of this? 3) Was the fall of jotun civilization after or before humanity arrived on continental Tyria?

Given the age of jotun society and history, it’s heavily implied that their fall is older than 1,500 years. In fact, Arah has remnants of jotun magitech that was gathered after their fall – according to the Durmand Priory scholars, it was long abandoned when the gods collected the jotun telescope. Though I haven’t gone through that path in the explorable dungeon in full yet so I cannot say with absolute certainty.

Also, there were more than five powerful races – if you want to get technical, the Giganticus Lupicus were also a powerful race before the ED’s last rise, and after the ED’s last rise the mursaat were not on the world anymore (they fled from the ED using their magic, leaving the world). So post-ED, there were, at first, four sentient races (their strengths and size of society unconfirmed – we don’t even know when the jotun’s grand era began or ended, though the Age of Giants indicate post-ED).

I’d also like to note that other sources outside Thruln the Lost claims that the jotun lost magic because their lorekeepers and magic users were the first targeted in their civil wars. Thus, most of their spellcasters, scholars, and historians disappeared near the beginning of their inter-fighting.

Bard.7215:

Thrulns notion that humans lived like Grawl could very well have occurred within that five year frame

That seems immensely impossible Firstly, Thruln says this: “My jotun ancestors helped them survive.” – this indicates that the humans were flailing about, so to speak, for a long time. That he puts importance on his jotun ancestors in the survival of the human race on continental Tyria. This wouldn’t be implying over five years. Furthermore, given that kindoms were formed so quickly, and even when humans arrived on Cantha they were already organized, it stands to reason that humanity arrived on continental Tyria equally organized.

Either Thruln’s wording implies immense exaggeration, or he’s just simply wrong in that regard. Either way, humans wouldn’t have been “like grawl” – grawl wouldn’t be capable of sea travel across oceans.

Bard.7215:

everything related to humans is not 100% indisputable as you’re making it out to be.

I have never once claimed this. Do not put words into my mouth. I merely stated Thruln’s claims are outright contradicted by dozens of other sources. How you can feasibly believe that one individual who’s knowledge is solely based on oral tradition from an in-lore standpoint is more accurate than these others and, in fact, the developers themselves (see this and this - proof that the Six Gods brought humanity to the world) is beyond me.

Think about it: if the Six Gods brought humanity to the world (links above are two pre-release sources on this, though there are multiple sources in Orr reaffirming this), then how is it possible that the Six Gods did not know of humanity before the establishment of the Tyrian kingdoms?

Bard.7215:

However I don’t believe that every shred of information beyond what we have already been told by them has been lost., otherwise the entire flavor behind their purpose in the grand plot would be meaningless.

No one claimed this.

Commander Wade Sammuelsson is the Duke of Ebonhawke, descendant of the kings of Ascalon, and leader of the Ebon Vanguard. I have a feeling that, given his heritage and the importance denoted by the Desert Gate Guards in Fields of Ruin (need to have either Jennah’s or Sammuelsson’s permission to cross) that he’ll be playing a big role in the future – perhaps given a reforged Magdaer by the norn in order to test the legend of a rightful king of Ascalon being able to put the ghosts to rest.

Also, there’s quite a bit more behind Zamon, Caudecus, and the rest of the bandit situation than what the Noble storyline shows. You more or less must do all human storylines up to level 20, as well as explore Queensdale, Kessex Hills, Brisban Wildlands, and Harathi Hinterlands with keen eyes. In short: massive implications that the bandit leaders, and Caudecus, are White Mantle - their "why are you evil" is because they're wanting to retake Kryta, they seed the concept of Jennah being tyrannical into the populous to get them to join the bandits whom they are funding and leading. The Ministry Guard are also under direct control of Caudecus and are part of this plot - not all of them are good guys, and though not all are White Mantle some do turn to crime under minister orders. Zamon was merely a piece of the larger puzzle which surrounds Caudecus. Also, Zamon's an elected minister - he's nothing special in of himself.