Guild Wars 2

Zhaitan is not death, but rather undeath.

Dwayna does not represent ice or cold. She is air, her winds have always been soothing/warm breezes. Not blizzard chills.

Kormir does not represent perfection – she is knowledge, spirit, truth, and order. Kralkatorrik doesn’t represent perfection either – he is crystal. His mentality is that of wanting perfection, theoretically.

We don’t know what Balthazar’s father represented.

The Pale Tree isn’t a god in neither truth nor view.

I think you yourself showed how Elementalists don’t petrify.

They transform. They transform in wind, water, and earth. This isn’t petrification.

Denial would certainly petrify – denial of movement, after all – though turning to stone is the question. Surely elementalists would be able to petrify, but who’s to say others can’t?

That’s something I’m not understanding from your stance. What prevents the same outcome to be achieved via multiple schools?

I land at the Jade Wind being from Preservation because of its source of power, and the original purpose for that power. Shiro twisted magic granted from Dwayna that was meant to be used to aid the people of the land. Besides the fact that Dwayna’s the patron goddess of monks and thus the patron of Preservation, you can’t easily aid the people with Destruction or Denial magic. Preservation is the most direct choice.

In their normal uses, Preservation and Aggression are the two that are most beneficial – it’s only in the non-standard uses that Denial and Destruction are helpful (just as, vice versa, Denial and Destruction are most harmful directly, while Preservation and Aggression become harmful in non-standard methods of use).

The Elder Dragons are hardly counterparts to the gods.

Though Jormag’s motive – if he has one – would be obtaining power, or alternatively creating a world where power reigns. Everything about him and his minions (more than just Sons of Svanir) is about seeking power and finding it through Jormag/Jormag granting power.

draxynnic.3719:

Meanwhile, we do see some petrification… in elementalist (Destruction) magic. Defensively, in that case, in the form of Obsidian Flesh, but the precedent is there

I wouldn’t call that petrification. The animation for that, iirc, is earth from the ground being wrapped around the body.

Unlike, say, the Basilisk gaze attack (which uses mesmer animation).

@drkn: Spirits have always been presented as a form of energy. And there’s quite a lot of implications – particularly around the mursaat – implying that they can be channeled for magic. It is how rangers in GW1 got anything that could be considered a magical attack, and for ritualists the spiritual/ancestoral themed skills are what gave the most divergence for the profession’s abilities. Effectively, ritualists “bypassed” the four schools system by using spirits.

There’s many possibilities.

It could be unique to the Mists. It could be a past event being replayed (akin to the Urban Battleground fractal), it could be a present event, or it could be a future event – and of the latter three, it both could be on the world of Tyria, or some other world.

The Mists are a place that touches all times and places, indeed.

Who knows what The Mossman is… looked like a norn to me.

The Unidentified Fractal was a ruined Rata Sum – the place you enter after the initial jumping area with harpies was the Peacemaker’s prison in Rata Sum. So that may be a future event yet to take place (and as the Pale Tree says, the future is always changing so it may not happen). That’s probably why Dessa was freaked out by it. Though I doubt it’s tied to the Elder Dragons not being stopped (same with the blizzard one).

The Tarnished Coast in GW1 had several human-like heads carved into stone around the area, even some in Sparkfly Swamp (now Sparkfly Fen). My guess is that these are part of an old human civilization, considering both areas had such.

Would an ant consider us evil? Kind of the same line of thought.

To Elder Dragons, we are not “other sapient beings” and they are not destroying life. Zhaitan seems to believe that we are the evil ones, as shown through the risen. I believe it was the Sovereign Eye of Zhaitan that stated that we were wanting to poison the land and that they (the risen) were trying to stop that poison, to remove it. That is to say, us removing Zhaitan’s taint, to them, was corrupting the land.

It’d be like saying humanity is evil because we build cities.

I wouldn’t agree with Alexander, given the fact that while, yes, they do hold sway over aspects of nature (or rather, their powers are reflecting aspects of nature), they likely could be conversed with (and, through their minions, are). Though I’d argue it’s more of a case of what Mardukar said: their views are so different from ours, they cannot be bound by our set of morals – no different than how we can be bound to the morals of a house cat should they exist.

I would like to point out, however, that the Elder Dragons instigated the assaults. The first thing was the Great Destroyer, who without reason other than to serve its master, began clearing the Depths of Tyria of all life. Svanir, compelled by Drakkar, went on a murderous spree. And after their awakening, the minions are bent only on expanding their forces and serving their dragon, and they do this by killing life that isn’t of the Elder Dragons.

But I wouldn’t call them evil. I’d put them as amoral – neither good nor evil. They just… are.

The investigation ends with the karka having been instigated by exploration efforts on Southsun Cove performed by the Consortium. The idiot that is Canach began investigating the plant-life there and that riled up the karka, and then when the Consortium fled, the karka followed.

But for the reason the karka are on Southsun Cove in the first place? That is likely the DSD’s fault. Especially given Zommoros’ line about the karka having not been on land since the world was emptier – indicating since a previous Elder Dragon rise, which means the karka may have a habit in their history of surfacing when the DSD awakes.

Narcemus, it’s easily to see that it leads to Caudecus’ Manor while within the dungeon itself – if you overlap the dungeon map with the world map, they line up perfectly in shape (unlike Honor of the Waves or Crucible of Eternity), and it puts the “Separatist Hideout” spot where Mia is taken in story mode very close to the path from Demetra. It looks like the path would lead to that sliver of land between DR and Harathi Hinterlands, but because the dungeon goes further north than what’s unfoggable on the world map, it actually does go to the dungeon (which technically goes into that sliver of unfoggable map).

In GW1, we helped undead eat hekets, who are cousins to hylek. So why not feast on hylek too!

Also, Lutinz, you mean sapient. They’re very much sentient, but so are cattle.

Yes, that’s the material I refer to. It’s always surrounding their eggs and nests, so its definitely of karka origins.

Probably like crabs, lobsters, or shrimp. Most likely the same family biologically-wise (and that central body’s tail on adults look a lot like the latter two’s).

My own theories regarding the Six Gods coming to Tyria:

• We’re told the Six Gods brought the forgotten to Tyria, but they were around during the last ED rise. We’re also told the Six Gods arrived after the mursaat/seer war, and the writing of the Tome of Rubicon (which happened at the same time), and with the Arah lore, it’s implied the war was part of that betrayal – the war ending with the seer race being on the brink of extinction thanks to Spectral Agony.
• This indicates to me that it may be possible that, instead of the Six bringing the forgotten, it was the other way around. I believe the forgotten traveled into the Mists, met the Six Gods and humanity, and brought them to Tyria.
• The previously mentioned Orrian History Scrolls’ bit on Lyssa states that the two sisters lived among humans in Wren, working apart from the other gods in order to sooth humanity’s sadness and forget the past. This indicates to me that humanity – perhaps the gods, were refugees.
• Given Arah is the site of forgotten structures, and given the Orrian History Scrolls’ claim that Dwayna brought humanity to the world there, with the stone floor of Arah in place, even if the “bringing humanity” there is wrong, that indicates that Arah had structures. We know that the Six had built the city, and that humanity traveled to continental Tyria in 205 BE. This to me indicates that the Six Gods took forgotten ruins, and expanded/renovated them, and at the same time set out to study the world as humanity thrived elsewhere, away from their experimentations that was with the ancient societies’ magic (we know that the mursaat were gone by that time, and that the jotun had already fallen, when the Six Gods brought those relics to Arah). Being new to the world, of course you won’t know much and you would want to study it, so this makes probable sense to me.

drkn.3429:

Side question – do we know of any in-game prophecies other than the Flameseeker ones? As in, do we know how divination works there, or at least do we have something to compare the Flameseeker Prophecies to?

Quite a few. The second most major one is the prophecy of Nightfall which, go figure, was foretold in the stars.

@Sindex.9520: I like to believe that Abaddon had a more noble persona before his fall. Sure he was evil in GW1, but after being tortured for 1,075 years, who wouldn’t be? He only showed wanting to break free and wanting revenge on the other gods. I wouldn’t call that “evil” per say anyways. Though given his motto on the Mural of Abaddon found in Khilbron’s tower in Orr, it does seem he had a rougher philosophy than the other gods… except Balthazar, perhaps. That motto was “act with magic, act within reason, act without mercy.” Doesn’t sound like the motto of a loki-esque figure for sure.

It seemed that he was a pro-magical usage kind of guy, rather than having everyone toil the soil with their own hands in order to have a chance at growing good crops. And the other five disagreed with the extent of his reasoning.

Been meaning to read and respond to this for a while. Here we go:

• We actually learn from scholars in the Priory structure, if you’re of the order, that the jotun have creation myths of a series of cycles for the Elder Dragons, implying that knew of more than two past awakenings, beyond predicting the current one.
• So guarding the Door of Komalie was a punishment? Am I understanding you right? Who gave them this task and why, is that said? And was there any more given (as I’ve only seen up to the GL of that path) of when they returned, when they met Saul (we’re never actually given a time for this), or about the mursaat-seer war (beyond “they used to work together, but betrayed the others”)?
• Welp, your theory of mursaat in fractals proved wrong. :P Though if the mursaat fled the world, they had to go into the Mists.
• It wasn’t so much the act of sacrifices or the bloodstones, but the soul batteries that were powered by souls. Souls are energy, and the door was powered by thousands of souls’ energies. Chosen killed on bloodstone, bloodstone transfered to soul batteries, batteries transported via ship to RoF, then attached to Door of Komalie and RoF bloodstone.
• I can’t see the seers being the ones who tasked the mursaat, especially tasking them to do so via soul sacrifices, given the last known survivor (there may be others ofc) wanted them dead. Unless the plot was to have mursaat kill their own kind off.
• Path 3 seems to hint not that Arah existed back then, though it could have given the Orrian History Scrolls’ line of Dwayna in Shelter Docks, Malchor’s Leap. Rather, it indicates Orr was previously forgotten territory/homeland. The gods didn’t seem to have been present at the time – if so, then humanity was on the world for over 9,000 years longer than we’ve ever had any indication of. Glint was active, btw, as we know she left Kralkatorrik of her own free will while protecting Kralkatorrik. Given what she says in Edge of Destiny, she likely continued serving Kralkatorrik after the ritual, but turned shortly thereafter. We also know that Glint was turned before the ED went to sleep, as she’s credited to being the one who hid the surviving races while the Elder Dragons ravaged the world until nothing was left.
• Zhaitan isn’t the only magical source in Orr – The Artesian Waters is also magical, and of a different nature than Zhaitan, as shown in the personal story. Was it explicitly stated they were taking Zhaitan’s magic? Or did it merely state that Orr was magical and they were taking that magic? Because if the former, then we’d all been using Elder Dragon magic and everything should be a shambling undead fanatic for Zhaitan, which makes no sense.
• You got the bloodstone’s purpose backwards. The bloodstone was used to capture and hold uncorrupted magic – magic untainted by the Elder Dragons. Not to contain their magic. Unless the latter half of the seer path contradicts the first half.
• Given the feats of the Six Gods recorded before Arah’s establishment and, in fact, when they arrive on the world, I’m going to need to see some quotes before I believe that “the Gods later found the bloodstone and used them, and possibly their shards, to ascend into actual godhood”

On your theory:

• If the gods were only human, then how did they bring the entire race to Tyria?
• Grenth is never said to be half-human. He’s said to be the son of Dwayna and a mortal sculptor. Who or what that sculptor was is unknown. It could have been a largos for all we know (and it wouldn’t surprise me considering: 1) largos have arabic origins just as Orrians; 2) At least one largos can read Orrian fluently; 3) the statue of Dwayna said to depict her true form, although corrupted, is of a seemingly-scrapped-and-reused corrupted female largos model; 4) Dwayna and Grenth both have depictions of having wings, and largos have wings, though Grenth isn’t always depicted with said wings).
• BTW, we were told by Jeff Grubb a long while back via an interview that the five playable races cannot cross-breed.

More in following post

When if you were to preserve a living being in a means that would harm them, wouldn’t it be petrification?

Your line of “too much of a good thing” is more or less what I meant with how I view both smiting prayers and the Jade Wind (and now, guardian magic)- the latter being a huge amount that brought such a devastating negative impact.

Yes, but the hundreds if not thousands of Ascalonians who didn’t join the Ebon Vanguard were all killed by charr or by their own king. And even among those who went to Ebonhawke, many casualties were suffered along the way, let alone after settling in the abandoned village.

Not sure about meat, but there’s a rather insane sylvari eating cooked karka eggs in Southsun Cove.

This is an isolated case, so it’s unlikely to be a case of all sylvari. It’s most likely that the sylvari is smelling cooking and that’s making it hungry.

Being sylvari, their way of phrasing and the reason for their feelings are still fairly new so poorly explained and said, left for many misinterpretations – this is not the only such line.

ClintonD.8620:

I’m thinking it just recently rose, particularly the coral-infested part.

This has been my take on it.

Firstly, it’s huge and as said never mapped before. Secondly, a good portion of it looks like it was crafted by the karka – who are known to have some sort of fluid that they excrete that solidified into a very hard substance, said substance being used on their shells and their nests (hence why their shells are so kitten tough as they get older).

Secondly, the western island looks like its fairly volcanic. Not only do you have a hot geyser effect throughout the southeastern half of the western larger island, but the northern part seems to have gases which would indicate volcanic activity.

I’d presume that Southsun Cove was formed by a combination of new volcanic activity (possibly made by Primordus), and karkas building nests.

It being a new location would also explain why the krait, quaggan, and risen got through without any presence of karka (or krait remaining there, if there was nothing there originally there’d be no point since their culture thrives on slaves, and for quaggan there’d be less protection in the open waters from those undead; for the risen, the karka would be a formidable opponent to keep them at bay longer).

It would also explain why its only recently being explored.

Nothing really means that it has to be related to something in Tyria – or anything, for that matter. Given that its in the Mists, even if its surroundings are Canthan, the colossus itself could be a unique creation of the Mists.

I wouldn’t say that its tied to the six gods – there’s nothing to really say that it is, and humans alone have been able to do some big feats, so a moving statue (that is, if it is a moving statue and not just something that has an unusual appearance that makes it look like such) wouldn’t be all that unique. However, given the situation, I would say that those humans are indeed the ones chaining it down. Though given that they (appear to be) creations of the Mists, what they can and cannot do is not limited to the same limitations as Tyrian humans (bloodstones don’t apply in the Mists, for instance).

There are treants who become “twisted” outside of the Nightmare Court’s influence – that is to say, rotting oakhearts, such as the one in Queensdale. These rotting oakhearts look akin to the nightmare mosshearts’ appearance, though the oakhearts also have an unusual shine to them.

What’s important to note is that the sylvari do not change in appearance – that is, becoming rotting or twisted – when converted to the Nightmare Court. The standard NC does have a darker skin, but not as dark as normal sylvari can become, and some of the unique models – the higher ups and thus more twisted sylvari – have standard appearances. So I think the darker appearance is akin to why some of the non-shaman Flame Legion models have white stripes over orange fur, or why a number of bandits have white hair – that is to say, to make them stand out from the players, since they’re the same race and even armor can be duplicated perfectly.

Also, I wouldn’t say treants are attached to the Pale Tree in some way – given the fact they predate the Pale Tree by a long time. Rather, it’d be the pale tree related to the treants if there is any relation (that is to say, treants came before the Pale Tree, so its the latter who holds the offshooting connection).

This is Meerak’s shouting in full (apparently, I forgot about half of what Meerak shouted, that is, the total nonsense parts):

“Hail the Flameseeker Prophecies! All shall be revealed in time, and with the revelation comes the end! Yes, the end!”
“Heed the Prophecies! Beware the unseen enemy!”
“Sinners, prepare to meet your makers! Heed the Prophecy well! The end is near!”
“The prophecy is truth, and the truth shall set us free!”
“Repent! The end is nigh!”
“Follow the Prince! Though he is doomed, his is the only way to salvation! So saith the Prophecy!”
“Fall down to your knees and beg the gods to spare their wayward children!”
“Trust not the treacherous man, we have been warned!”
“Prepare for the coming of those whose departure caused the gods to weep! The time has come to atone for our arrogance!”
“The Flameseeker Prophecies will be fulfilled. Make peace with the gods before it’s too late!”

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Meerak_the_Shouter

Indeed. All outside observances called it a pillar of light or an explosion, but most didn’t even know what happened/was happening until after they recovered from all the shipwrecking waves caused by Orr’s sinking.

I’ve always looked at the schools not so much as what their name means or what they do, but what the practicing professions do.

Denial was always mental based magic – and when thinking on meaning of denial – to deny – then even that can be used in a beneficial way. To deny pain, damage, or harm. Similarly, it can mean denying beneficial things – from causing damage, to receiving healing, to movement. I’d argue that denial magic is the school used in regards to making things float (denying the object from falling/denying gravity).

And when looking at the elementalist, though they have protective skills, snares, and healing, they’re still destroying something to cause those spells – they destroy the surrounding earth to obtain the rocks that become shields or that they hurl just as much as they use fire and air to damage their enemies directly.

Necromancy in GW1 almost always focused on taking advantage of actions – either past or current actions. In GW2, this is changed a bit but still exists to a degree. Thus Aggression would be, arguably, tied to the act of utilizing movement.

Even monks did more than merely heal – remember smiting prayers? This means that Preservation is more than just keeping things together. It can be harmful too, if used in a certain way. I’ve always viewed smiting prayers more as highly concentrated doses of preservation – not dissimilar to the Jade Wind, which was corrupted magic granted by Dwayna the patron of monks. Preservation – to keep in condition – can do more than restoring or preventing damage to, in the context of living beings. Petrification is the act of preserving one’s movements, for instance. (I kind of like to think that smiting prayer skills are miniscule little Jade Wind effects – each skill that damages a foe is temporarily petrifying them).

So I really don’t see an issue with all schools being able to heal, truth be told. It’s not so much in what the schools do, but rather how its done.

So all schools can heal, defend, damage, and buff with the same effects. That’s how I view it, at least.

That’s not the only way sylvari are twisted to the Nightmare, and you’d know this if you paid attention. :P Simple torture is enough to do it – psychological torture, that is. For sylvari, falling to the nightmare is, literally, synonymous with going insane.

Mental breakdowns, insanity, etc. – for humans, leads to bubbling idiots to psychopaths. For sylvari, leads to the nightmare (aka, only psychopaths).

Knowing this, those pods are probably just torture devices.

Krakens do indeed exist in the Unending Ocean (and the Jade Sea in Cantha). Though I think the large creature in the solidified Jade Sea section of the Fractals of the Mists is a kraken – krakens were in the Jade Sea in GW1, after all, though the GW2 is vastly different from the GW1 version.

But that tentacle is more likely a reference to the deep sea dragon rather than krakens, and there’s no relation between the two.

We’ll likely see more about the DSD given we’re investigating why the kraken are attacking as well as what they are.

I’ve seen nothing on it, but a fella from Guru2 lore forums associates the humans fought there with Canthans, and the area with Cantha itself. Implying the giant may be a copy of something in Cantha.

But we know nothing outside what’s presented in that area about the giant, and that information only supplies questions – those you asked. But if it is a copy of Cantha, then we know why he was chained up – it would likely be of when Usoku reigned (assuming Cantha has lost its xenophobia) when he purged all non-humans from Cantha. Of course, these Fractals are all recently (?) made locations and, I’d presume, so are the creatures within them – all copies of various timeframes and locations of places.

Meerak the Shouter, as Rayven said. :P

Though it only takes a few lines from him. Probably one of the main documents about the Flameseeker Prophecies existing.

Except that it seems it wasn’t an explosion. That is, if the cinematic in Arah is to be taken for granted. It was a “pillar of light” indeed, and it just sunk, with some cracks, but no giant explosion. TBH, if it were an explosion, then to turn Orr into what it was during GW1, it would be a crater like if a nuke dropped on Arah, so it never really made sense for the Cataclysm to be an explosion since we knew it’d rise again (and tbh, even before hand given there were Orrian remains).

Let’s see here…

It’s a bit hard to read due to the squished nature, odd styling, and curvature, but the first two lines on left page are:

Hail the flameseeker prohecies (yup its misspelled) all shall

That’s New Krytan so it can be translated, and its clear enough to do so. I’ll give it a whirl after the karka event that’s starting up about now.

Difference is that Rata Sum has an active magical group maintaining the structures. Orr no longer does.

And one kinda has to wonder how the hell those arches remained in place when the center – but not the sides – of Orr sunk.

Maybe the arches are broken somewhere up high in the sky? But then that makes no sense for how that one arch has remained standing (less than now).

@Narcemus: How many are needed to constitute the required number of individuals in order to make a race? Typically, a species isn’t defined by the number, but the genetics.

And given Zhaitan’s size, ten Elder Dragons can easily fit on Orr – though who knows how they’d act to each other. Then again, could easily be that the dragon champions are the “standard” size for the ED’s group, and the ED are so large due to how old they are and how much magic they devoured (imps kind of act similar to Elder Dragons in that they feed on magic, and interestingly, imps increase in size as they absorb/feed on more magic).

Though this is getting well into the “what if” domain.

Well, it is a fantasy world, with at least two metals that are non-existent on earth, both of which are plentiful in Orr, so who’s to say that all metals function the same in Tyria?

I mean, you got exploding gemstones for instance. My knowledge of minerals is rather sub-par, but I can’t think of one such gem on earth that’d explode – a mixture, sure, but not a single one alone.

This wouldn’t be the first – and certainly isn’t the last – of easily obtained vendor items being sold for far more than their cost. Just search on the TP for the Runes of Holding (any tier) and compare to vendor prices…

One flaw in that: it was the gods who left the Giganticus Lupicus’ corpse in Arah (it’s the temple guard after all – might have even been the last living GL). Zhaitan just corrupted it.

Whoever said Elder Dragons were confined to Tyria?

Given what we know, continental Tyria sounds like a magical hotspot to have had three Elder Dragons on it when falling asleep (note: Jormag awoke north of Tyria, and the DSD awoke south of it – the sixth’s location is unknown so it could be four). Furthermore, Orr was home to some forgotten structures as well as being where Glint was “cleansed” of Kralkatorrik’s corruption (thus, Zhaitan was not always at Orr – therefore, he moved there from somewhere else).

Given the size and actions of the Elder Dragons, if there were ever a multitude of them, I’d imagine they were a world-wide race.

Or the metal used to make it is extremely light but dexterous (typically how mithril and, iirc, orichalcum are often described), so that the weight it produces is light enough for the full end at the center of Orr and that thin end on the outskirts to support its whole weight.

Furthermore, if you observe the broken part, most of the arch should be hollow if the whole arch follows the same structure – the arch would literally be honeycombed (more or less – just a square honeycomb) shape if cut cleanly perpendicular to the arching of the structure.

I am now picturing an army of guys like this one being used as mounts by jotun who barely reach their knees.

CharrGirl.7896:

Hi,

I was thinking about something…I know this isn’t really important but whenever I read about elder dragons some sources say they are actually genderless. And others that they are all male. So what is actually official? Are all dragons male? I think it would be realistic to have at least 1 female elder dragon to fight, but hey it’s their lore:P

We were told by developers, back in 2010 I believe, that the Elder Dragons do not have genders as the races of Tyria know – that is to say, they do have genders (or rather can), but no one but they know what said genders are. This came up when an interview called Kralkatorrik “she” and “her” which caused a bit of a craze in the lore community with the whole “omg there’s a female Elder Dragon.”

Elder Dragons are frequently referred to as he, simply because – I presume – denoting things with unknown or lack of gender as masculine is common practice in the English language (since, unlike most other languages, nouns do not have a connection to masculine, feminine, or neutral nomination).

Glint calls Kralkatorrik a he though, so one can argue Kralkatorrik is the only Elder Dragon with a known gender, being male.

Narcemus.1348:

I would assume genderless, seeing as they are described as more of a force of nature than a being.

The key thing to note is that they’re described as forces of nature by beings who do not know their nature, or when talking to said beings in the case of Glint.

But given the fact they can be killed, and they must eat, and that they think independently, they are, in fact, not forces of nature. So it’s reasonable to believe they could hold genders.

BrunoBRS.5178:

elder dragons don’t reproduce, and are one-of-a-kind individuals, so they wouldn’t even have someone/something to mate with. thus, they are genderless.

Source please.

Nothing I have seen says Elder Dragons cannot reproduce, let alone that they are “one of a kind” (given there’s six of them, it’d be more accurate to say they’re “six of a kind”). For all we know, the six Elder Dragons – that is, assuming there aren’t more outside the knowledge of the jotun and dwarves – could be the last of an entire species of magically powerful dragons from ancient pre-history.

I’ve never seen such a pathway, unless you are referring to the one from Ruins of Holy Demeter which heads towards Caudecus’ Manor (quite literally, as the distance is very minimal when you’re actually within Caudecus’ Manor to the “Hidden Path” area). In which case, I cannot see that leading to a new zone. It feels more like a hidden hint to further the ties between Caudecus and the bandits.

Allow me to rephrase:

underwater throughout all of Zhaitan’s territory? The bone ships only traverse underwater for surprise attacks, and the risen only walk under the waves when invading (specifically, north). Similarly, said risen sharks and turtles – and other risen in the water – are all close by Orr itself.

The DSD’s exact location is unknown as is its proximity to continental Tyria, and nothing indicates to us that Zhaitan’s forces go underwater to the south or east of Orr, where there’s nothing to outright invade or surprise assault (which, again, is the sole reason why risen go underwater outside the immediate proximity of Orr).

My point being thus:

Nothing indicates the DSD and Zhaitan – or, more specifically, their minions – are or were clashing. And in turn, nothing indicates their sphere of influence overlap.

What Narcemus said. Also, I respond as I go through the thread. Otherwise I’d forget who I wanted to respond through and would have to re-read what I just read.

And, not to be rude, but I was also responding to your response to Mecha, though that was only in the last paragraph where I talked about how the “asura tech” isn’t really an issue with tampering with the Mists – at least, in of itself.

Ships, yes, but underwater? And, truth be told, nothing says the DSD is heading towards continental Tyria – just that is the direction that krait, quaggan, karka, and largos fled towards. And nothing says that’s the only direction they fled to either.

For all we know, the DSD’s minions are incapable of surfacing the water (mind you, that’d be rather silly, but still a possibility – not like “small possibility” stops others from making insane hypotheses).

Narcemus.1348:

These are not the physical return to a point in time, but rather a reconstruction of a point in time within the mists. This is what the game designers seem to view things such as PvP arenas as well.

This.

The Mists, as said since Prophecies, “are what binds the universe together, past, present, and future.” Within the Mists there are areas “where time moves neither forward nor back.” These two quotes coming from the Prophecies manual.

The Mists has always been known to copy and mimic. The organisms it makes mostly turn out to be demons (you GW1 players remember all those creatures in the Realm of Torment that looked like shambling piles of flesh in the form of creatures seen elsewhere in the game? That’s their origin and reason of appearance.), while the land created are solitary islands within the Mists, echos of the past.

This is also the foundation of the GW2 PvP arenas – the Battle of Khylo arena, for instance, is a recreation by the Mists of… the Battle of Khylo.

So, as said, it’s not time travel. It’s just going to a place which was created in mimicry of a historical – or futuristic – location or time.

Shadowlancer.7102:

You and the others have your points, but for those of us that love good stories, this flaw or loop hole as most people call it, kills the lore. However Lore was never an important factor anyways with todays MMOs.

Lore is a huge factor for the Guild Wars franchise. And this is only following what has existed in lore since day 1. There is no flaw, no loop hole, no error, no change to lore.

It’s not time travel like you believe.

Shadowlancer.7102:

All I know is that when “Time” is used in any situation, something wrong happens.

It’s more of “when time travel is used in any situation […]”

This isn’t time travel (again).

And the only thing the asura seem to be doing is stablizing the rather chaotic creation system of the Mists. It could prove deadly, were it to get into the wrong hands – as effectively that means taming the very core elements that creates – but this isn’t a case of time travel, so your woes are misdirected. For all we know, this Dessa figure could be a villain anyways.

1) The space between Divinity’s Reach and Harathi Hinterland – specifically, that body of water is Lake Doric – is far too small for an explorable zone.
2) Nothing says the Isles of Janthir are related to mursaat (Eye of Janthir, yes, and said to be inhabited by people with the Gift of True Sight, but mursaat are never said to have said Gift), despite popular belief, and nothing more says that Agony is related to mursaat, despite similar naming system with Infusion and Agony, and lastly, only one known mursaat still lives – his location and state is 100% unknown.

EdwinLi.1284:

I kind of feel sad that our GW1 Heroes actions in GW1 are just being discovered in the ruins of places we once knew in GW1.

So what other things do you think Anet will add into the game that will mention our GW1 Heroes as they expand the world?

So far we have seen

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a scroll about the events of Prophecies

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and the tome of the Eye of the North events which you know is the journey our GW1 hero turned in for EotN Faction points

How I figure it is that the general events are well known, but the specifics, such as what the heroes did, have been lost to time because said heroes were on the edges of civilization half the time. Just like in reality, where we know of World War II but, while some folks know of it due to it being sought out and documented, your average history class won’t talk about, for instance, a specific unit’s exploits during a war. Documentaries will mention some select individuals, but how many of the common person watches these?

I mean, no one but the heroes could have documented their time in the Crystal Desert or the Ring of Fire, but the average folks would know that there were Ascalonians who initiated the White Mantle’s downfall. There’s quite a few mentions to GW1 events and individuals that were part of the main plot, but there’s also a lot of holes just because no one else was around to write it all down. During an interview, we were even told that some GW1 events, with the heroes meeting Glint being an explicit example, being unknown to the world.

And those sources where it was written down could easily have been lost when Zhaitan rose and the Lion’s Arch library got flooded – the Durmand Priory rescued some of the works there, but its never said all were. And we know for a fact that the Durmand Priory censors the knowledge given out, to keep “harmful” knowledge out of the public’s view.

synk.6907:

250 years is a pretty short time in the history of a world, too. That’s almost like if folks in the US ran around without much of an idea about anyone involved in the establishment of the nation.

While more or less true, also keep in mind we’re able to find out more nowadays because we have greater technology and records than Tyria would have in GW2’s time, let alone GW1’s. It’d probably be more akin to comparing living in the 1700s and knowing about the 1500s’ events.

Chessrook.8643:

In the Plains of Ashford there’s an event where you end up killing Captain Calhann, who was in the first mission of prophecies. Just before the event starts, if you show up early enough, two random soldiers run up to him, and THEY RECREATE THE FINAL CUTSCENE OF THE MISSION. The two soldiers, one male and one female, say the lines that the Player Character said, however, word for word.

That entire thing makes little sense when looked at in depth.

The Foefire ghosts repeat the day they died endlessly – that is to say, the day of the Foefire is repeated. The event Calhaan’s spirit repeats happened 18 years before the Foefire.

Gryphon.2875:

Seriously, how hard is it, once you’ve linked accounts, for the game to grab one of your GW1 character’s names, likely the one with most time played, or the most titles, and use that as a reference? And for those who’ve not got GW1 on the account, use one of the NPC names instead.

And which character will be taken? What if the wrong name that the player wants is taken and it then doesn’t work as well? How will the audio of the name come about? You can’t voice record every possible name of GW1, and a vast majority of lines (read: all but dialogue boxes) have voice overs.

@jink: Issue about your claiming that concept art is of a DSD minion is that we don’t know what it is. Another issue is that its official name is “1233” and not “sea creature” – the sea creature title was given by a wiki editor (though apparently the same image is titled “Leviathan” in the fan assets kit, meaning that this was early concept art of the leviathan which look nothing like the concept art).

Also, that image of the creature is part of Fractals of the Mists which, again, has not connection to the deep sea dragon. That thing could just as easily be a torment demon, which are known for mimicking life but looking rather sinewy irregardless.

She’s part of the “Defend the Mists” storyline, only present during those ten levels.

Ramei.2715:

Grenth’s father was apparently the sculptor who made the statues of the gods, at least thats what an agent of the Order of Whispers hinted at in one of my characters personal story lines. Being human he eventually died. And Dhuum wouldn’t let him come back. That may have annoyed Grenth.

Really, which personal storyline? Are you referring to the one where you go to the Cathedral of Silence and summon one of the Seven Reapers? If so, Priestess Rhei isn’t a member of the Order of Whispers, and she merely states “mortal sculptor” – nothing indicates Grenth’s father was human unless you mean a different storyline that no one else apparently brought up yet.

@Killyox: There’s easily over a dozen means to explain why a statue of Grenth – never outright said to be designed by Malchor – holds a quote from Malchor about Grenth. Considering that he met Dwayna first (she was the one who commissioned Malchor), it’s fairly possible. We don’t know how long those statues took – could easily have been years before he worked on Grenth’s (who could have been second to last), nor do we know Grenth was among those gods he sculpted instead of Dhuum (the only thing that says Grenth was, was an out-of-game second-hand revealed story of Malchor originally written in French and claiming Kormir was among the gods at the time rather than Abaddon).