sigh Not another one. Like the 5+ already existing threads on this isn’t enough.
In short: There is no dragon for Kormir – and if you go with Abaddon, you must go with his predecessor which all indications lead to no dragon for him/her; if you go with Kormir you go with Grenth (and vice versa) in which you get Zhaitan and Jormag but if you go with Abaddon’s predecessor then you go with Dhuum which you get Zhaitan but no god for Jormag. If you go with Dhuum and Zhaitan fits with Dhuum then you got no dragon for Dwayna. Irregardless you have no god for Kralkatorrik (Lyssa doesn’t fit besides “purple” and guess what – Abaddon was also purple!).
This connection fails after Melandru=Sixth Nature Dragon (which is speculative) and Balthazar=Primordus.
Maybe the Dragons ate the Gods and absorbed their powers, voodoo-style.
Except that Grenth is still very much alive as proven by the personal storyline.
Grenth and Dhuum are both gods of death and ice.
WRONG!
Grenth was a half-god and always representing ice and mortality. Dhuum only represents death, which Grenth took over. Dhuum is never once related to ice!
You’ll say “well Kormir isn’t a water Goddess like Abaddon was”….well, I’d respond by pointing towards her statue in Divinity’s Reach. While she’s not described in most aspects as a water aspect, her statue clearly shows her raising waves of water around her.
Except that Lyssa took over water after Nightfall, as proven by the human biography question when creating a character.
Those don’t look like waves of water to me, they can easily be waves of ether or some other force.
Please enlighten me about where these aspects have changed.
Abaddon was the god of Knowledge and Water (when he became imprisoned it turned to Secrets and the Deeps); with his death, Kormir became the goddess of Truth, Order, and Spirit whereas Lyssa took water, becoming the goddess of beauty, illusion, and water. Kormir also took judgment over from Grenth – at least a portion of it (whereas Grenth judged all before, now he only seems to judge the dead).
That is where domains switched over. Other than the fact that Dhuum was never ice.
I apologize, my impatience didn’t allow me to finish reading your (both of your) 6 page long responses in this account.
6 pages? We’re only on page 3 for me.
Then again, the pages are looooong.
@Refugby: Ten was obviously an exaggeration. I’ve only stated it probably 4 or so times, if that, excluding the last time.
As to electricity, the only time it is used for corrupting is when it struck the ogres; he does use it to strike at Ebonhawke’s walls, but that’s an attack not corruption (no corruption around the walls was made). Only other presence of anything electrical in description is just the storm that surrounded him as he flew south.
“It is the lack of any electrical description that makes the aura unlikely to be electricity.”
Which is what I’ve been saying from the get go.
“I also never declared it as the sole method for Kralkatorrik’s corruption.”
Not explicitly, no, but you definitely implied that being the sole means of him making crystals.
“Plasma (superheated matter) happens to be a good conductor of electricity, so it really is possible to claim that Kralkatorrik’s breath attack contains electrical charges.”
Fire is also plasma, which is a typical fantasy affiliation with dragons.
“I would assume no heat or plasma was discovered by Snaff when delving into Kralkatorrik’s mind either, so this doesn’t explain why his plasma breath attack causes crystallization. Also, corruption by presence makes it clear that even if the heat of Kralkatorrik’s plasma breath causes crystallization, it is not the only method of crystallization, and is also not a necessary factor.”
No, I don’t think there was heat or plasma mentioned in Kralkatorrik’s mind – just crystals, sandstorms, and his mental thoughts. However, one must also remember that all Elder Dragons corrupt via presence, and multiple via breath (at least Primordus and the DSD are said to).
“While corrupted-but-not-crystallized water is a good counterpoint for liquids being a target for corruption (and crystallization), it also raises the question of how much the crystallization is related to Kralkatorrik’s corruption at all (What kind of corruption creates crystals and what does not? What are the limits of his corruption?)”
For Elder Dragons, as seen in-game via Zhaitan, corruption lies in the magic they exude and can affect things beyond their minions or element – for example, the lands of Orr are corrupted by Zhaitan, including the water and very air, despite the fact that he only makes minions out of corpses, and when said corpses are devoured what did the devouring becomes corrupted but not a Risen (as seen in Sparkfly Fen). Each Elder Dragon seems to hold two forms of corruption: influencial and minion-making – the former is simply the spreading of their corruption which alters what’s corrupted but doesn’t turn the entity into their element (e.g., Branded or Dragonbrand), whereas the latter does. Perhaps this is caused out of potency of corruption, or directness. Either way, the corrupted magic is being spread but new minions not formed from it.
“Correct me if I’m wrong, but I would have thought organic solid matter refers to solid matter composed of living cells (which contain liquid).”
Oh, sure, get technical on me. The Elder Dragons very obviously hold preferences for what they corrupt – Kralkatorrik corrupts the physical. Allow me to reiterate what I meant: he twists all physical things, but only makes crystalline minions out of organic solids, whereas inorganic solids still become twisted but not moving minions (with exceptions of his dragon champions like the Shatterer and the
Branded Lieutenants":http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Veteran_Branded_Lieutenant ).
“If Branded air elementals are corrupted from normal air elementals, and crystal is the result of Kralkatorrik’s corruption, then why do Branded air elementals not drop the crystal cores that their uncorrupted counterparts drop? (This is based on the loot table provided in the wiki, and so may be unreliable.)”
shrug I dunno. Why does it not drop charged or crystal cores irregardless of its origin? It doesn’t seem to be made of crystals so crystal cores make no sense for either version to me.
“Why fury? Does this have any relation to Kralkatorrik’s desire?”
Given the situation, if minions feel the emotion of their dragon (which I find likely), then Kralkatorrik was undoubtably extremely enraged at Glint for her betrayal – he did head immediately after her, after all.
I’m still wondering who’s the lucky kitten that managed to bed Dwayna! XD
If I remember right Grenth was born when a mortal sculptor (never specified to be Malchor) touched the face of Dwayna, from that moment of love she concieved Grenth (thought or actual birth is unknown). I don’t have the exact source for this though, I believe I just heard Konig say it.
Grenth’s father is only said to be a mortal sculptor.
The touching of Dwayna’s face comes from the Orrian History Scrolls – when Malchor, now blind, finished the sculpture of Dwayna from memory she weeped at how accurate it was and allowed him to touch her face so that he himself can tell the accuracies.
Its fan speculation that this is what led to Grenth being born. Silly speculation if you ask me, and solely dependent on the idea that you can’t have sex with a god (hey, Zeus does it all the time, why can’t Dwayna?).
I want to say they more than likely left Kormir and Lyssa out of the game on purpose because of the fact that they really do not line up that well with the others. I mean they had more than enough opportunity to add them to the story if they had wanted last Wintersday when they added their costumes.
Don’t fit? Lyssa represents spring in Elona, and Kormir’s militant like Balthazar.
They fit kitten well if you ask me.
please clarify if the water example was written in the book as a first-hand observation […]or from in-game observation. A counterpoint to your solids-only argument is the common presence of uncrystallized rock and metal (both clearly and fully solid) in Branded territory; if solid matter was the focus of corruption, shouldn’t most of these have turned to crystal?
In-game observation for the water – both from environment as well as objects and NPCs (such as the Branded Waterfall skill point in Iron Marches, which talks about it containing corruption, yet its not crystal (or electrical)); as for the rock, if you take note what is crystallized is organic, while inorganic solids are simply blackened (which would explain why Branded Earth Elementals look rather lack-of-crystal), with only some purple glow and patches of crystals, this also fits the book descriptions mentioned above, where the land is boiled and melted, rather than being described as crystals. Ghosts of Ascalon also shows this the same – the plants are what’s called to be crystals, aside from the crystal guardian giant, though the true nature of that being is left ambiguous (was it a giant? an elemental? or as it seemed, the land coming to life?).
Regarding the Branded Air Elementals: I’d presume the former, otherwise they should be purple – or golden based on the book – as all lightning related to Kralkatorrik in game is purple (and in the book, golden). But these are blue.
Then you should have listed all these details earlier, instead of saying ‘Kralkatorrik did not awake near crystals or lightning so your theory is disproven’ ten times or so.
….
From my second to latest previous post:
Your argument depends on what’s nearby at the moment of awakening, and as we can tell from Edge of Destiny, no storms were nearby when Kralkatorrik awoke – not until after he awoke and made the storms himself.
And I dare say, stating that he didn’t wake up near lightning is the same exact thing as saying “there were no storms when he awoke.”
I didn’t bring up his crystallization method off the bat because I at first requested clarification on how lighting makes crystals. When you explained, I then explained how Kralkatorrik twists solids, which is not what your explanation entails. I suppose I should have skipped straight to “Kralkatorrik doesn’t corrupt (solely) though lightning.”
Humans, sure, but the muscles and bone comes from ogres, not humans. And I only pulled out a portion of the description; here’s the full:
A golden thunderstroke broke across Chief Kronon and his warriors.
It bathed them. It broiled them. It turned their muscles into crystal and their bones to stone.
He felt like he was dying.
He felt like he was solidifying – a pupa becoming a wasp.
He grew twice his height before his hide hardened. Then his bones warped to basalt. His hair elongated into thorny spikes.
Backstepping a page, allow me to write the description for Kralkatorrik corrupting a charr and the land nearby:
Ferroc Torchtail crawled across the ground. His broken limbs ached, but he struggled to find cover.
Then the dragon’s breath flooded over him.
He was transfixed
Transformed.
Hackles melted to spines, hair to scales.
Legs crystallized.
Ferroc was becoming something new. The dragon’s kiln-hot breath was hardening fear into fury and turning him into a giant.
Then the golden gale moved on, pouring on new ground and baking it and transforming it. The dragon scudded away like a thunderhead.
Ferroc stood in the burned and branded wake of the beast, and with his last conscious thought, he hungered to serve Kralkatorrik.
These descriptions do not include turning liquid into crystal, but rather hardening solids through heat. Its basically overcooking them (which is continued to the fight with Destiny’s Edge, which describes the corruption of land as “the ground seemed to melt, to boil and twist” and “the plasma splashed down across the desert, melting sand to glass […]” said plasma referring to the breath).
Edge of Destiny does, actually, disprove the notion that Kralkatorrik must use lightning to make the crystals. Above, with Ferroc, he uses his breath – not lightning. As I stated in my previous post, he uses breath, presence, and lightning to corrupt. Earlier before Ferroc, Branded are coming from near Kralkatorrik away from his head (closer to the back of the neck by the description), so it’s unlikely he breathed on those, but they still became corrupted due to being near him.
Unless you’re wanting to claim that his breath holds electrical charge as does his body. Which is plausible, but given the other portions of Edge of Destiny (such as when Kralkatorrik fights Destiny’s Edge – no lightning ever used, nor any electrical attacks, just turning into a sandstorm (which isn’t electrical at all) and breathing), I find it extremely unlikely.
Furthermore, when Snaff dives into Kralkatorrik’s mind there isn’t even an ounce of mention of lightning, electricity, thunder or related bits. The closest you get is the comparison of his mind to a cyclone, but only once and the rest was always a storm of sand or a crystalline tempest or the like. Everything else, is crystal.
Chronomancer – that’s why they never made it into the game.
On a serious note though, in regards to the magical professions they’re all balanced out thanks to the Bloodstones (mechanic balancing irregardless), and they’re all physically weaker than the less magical professions, but said less magical professions fail at magical defenses.
So it all more or less evens out. There is no profession clearly more powerful than others.
Pages 341 to 347 of Edge of Destiny describes Kralkatorrik’s awakening in detail. There is no rain, lightning, thunder, or storms mentioned as he awakens – just rumbling and creatures around the scaly mountain being transformed into large crystallized beings. He doesn’t create crystals via lightning, and he himself blocked out the sun (something no possible if there was a storm) just after he awoke. There’s no mention of lightning until the scene where Chief Kronan was branded (right before Kralkatorrik flew over Ebonhawke). I think there’s also lightning in the scene of Almorra’s retelling in Ghosts of Ascalon, but that’s less relevant since we know that when he woke, there was no lightning.
The first scene of Kralkatorrik’s awakening states how his breath – no lightning involved – turned the first of his branded. The second scene (with Chief Kronan of the ogres) showed yellow lightning striking his tribe and “broiled” them as it transformed their “muscles to crystals and their bone to stone” – so it was turning their physical mass, not their liquid mass.
Furthermore, all evidence points to Kralkatorrik corrupting physical – that is to say solid – matter. He leaves ghosts unharmed and the water appeared untouched besides the possible super-boiling and super-cooling that I mentioned before as the only change in the branded lakes is the animals and ground, the water itself for the most part is unchanged.
So, again, for the tenth or so time, your theory is disproven. Please stop being stubborn and read the whole of my posts, because I’ve explained that there is no lightning when Kralkatorrik awakes – as proven by Edge of Destiny – several times already. You’re only paying attention to my addendums, the side points which are less stable. Here, I present no side points, only facts that disprove you.
To summarize my points:
(edited by Konig Des Todes.2086)
It’s kind of odd that only Coddler’s Cove has pink baby quaggan. The other two hatcheries I know of don’t – then again, one of them have baby quaggans larger than the adult quaggans! wtf?
The pink could just be from Unending Ocean quaggan (aka “southern quaggan”) which when grown are either pale/gray or dark blue in color – whereas arctic ocean quaggan (aka “northern quaggan”) as adults are orca-like in color (back is black, belly is white). The pink could fade as they grow, turning pale/gray, while the blue darkens – and for the northern quaggan, they’re all born blue and grow so that their bellies lighten and their backs darken.
You can actually see beneath female largos’ masks if you angle your camera just right.
They lack eyebrows and nose(I think on the nose…), but are otherwise smooth skinned.
Of course, this is under the assumption they didn’t half kitten the face since it can’t normally be seen (but why bother with one at all when the male lacks such?).
If Thruln’s claim for why jotun fell to civil war holds any amount of truth, it’d be that the civil war began due to the Bloodstone’s creation – that it was done without their knowledge.
I have only been able to do the first half of that path, so I cannot answer that but from what I have seen of the second half, it doesn’t seem so.
I do not think electrocrystallization turns solids into crystals, which is what Kralk’s corruption does. Mind you, when it comes to water, it does seem like his passing and creation of the Dragonbrand super-heated and super-cooled it (there’s some domes that look like solidified boiling water in the Dragonbrand, often near water), but most of the water in the Dragonbrand was left untouched – it was just the solid things altered. Which is not electrocrystallization.
And you’re not listening. My argument isn’t “it makes no sense” but rather “it makes no sense, because Kralkatorrik doesn’t wake near lightning or crystals” – bolding so that you can see what exactly you’ve been ignoring since the start of this (you’ve never once mentioned storms being present when he awoke, btw). Your argument depends on what’s nearby at the moment of awakening, and as we can tell from Edge of Destiny, no storms were nearby when Kralkatorrik awoke – not until after he awoke and made the storms himself.
Another thing you’re ignoring is the fact that Kralkatorrik was always Elder Crystal Dragon – as proven by Glint – and that Jormag and Primordus were always Ice and Fire. So by your argument, they would always need to be awakening near crystal, ice and fire (respectively), however they move around. So that’s highly unlikely to be the case.
(edited by Konig Des Todes.2086)
roflmao…
The best part about the OP’s picture for me is the norn’s expression. It just wouldn’t be the same without that face.
The issue with the theory that the Bloodstone was made before the mursaat wiped out the seer race is due to how the mursaat wiped out the seer race – with Spectral Agony. And the seers developed infusion near the end of the war, which itself is magical. One cannot have a magical war without magic, ergo, the war precedes the Bloodstone.
I don’t think the forgotten left and returned – I previously did, but that was when I was under the belief that the last Elder Dragon rise was in ~10,000 BE; recently, however, I have been believing the last ED rise was in ~2,000 BE. Sieran says during one of the DP storyline missions that the dwarven civilization is “over 2,000 years old” which is rather odd if they were around in 10,000 BE. This would coincide with the forgotten arriving on Tyria (never mentioned to be world or continent) in 1,768 BE per the timeline. And the timeline(s) never say the Giganticus Lupicus, which the Durmand Priory believe went extinct during the last Elder Dragon rise, went extinct in 10,000 BE (but rather that they disappeared from/last walked upon continental Tyria).
From all I’ve seen, I’d presume the following for the last ED line timeframe wise:
Elder Dragons awake->Mursaat betray the other races, nearly wiping out the seers->Mursaat flee Tyria->Forgotten free Glint->Seers make Bloodstone->Glint hides the races->ED go back to sleep->Jotun fall into continuous civil war and the forgotten turn to shepherds for the races that survived the ED (a job formerly done by jotun if Thruln the Lost is to be believed)
I’m also led to believe that the kodan, tengu, and krait survived this last rise, unknown to the jotun (as the whole “five races against six Elder Dragons” come solely from jotun records) – but this is off-topic. Along with this, I believe that the mursaat’s magic – given the effectiveness of it seen during Arah explorable – was the alliance’s primary weapon against the Elder Dragons, but with the mursaat fleeing they turned to other means (Bloodstones).
I do not attribute the Bloodstone to why the mursaat disappeared. If they were already gone from Tyria – and we’re told that they fled the world, not just went unseen or “out of phase” (their magic allows them to go out of phase, but they also fled the world) – then their magic would have been unaffected by it, as it only affects magic in Tyria (and if it affects magic in the Mists, damn that’s overpowered kitten right there).
Point 1 isn’t really subjective… It’s an observation based on his actions and the situation surrounding him, and given the fact that we learn dragon minions become more intelligent as they’re given more corrupted magic.
Point 3 could be subjective, but not entirely. Its a fact that he’s Nightmare Court, and that he pushes for the NC’s goals. He just holds more honor than your average NC member is all, which isn’t that different form the personality presented by Brangoire in Twilight Arbor.
As to the Shatterer making fields of electrical energy… and? He also makes crystals without elecrtical animations. Kralkatorrik is, more or less, more of a “Lightning and Crystal Dragon” rather than a “Crystal Dragon” but he’s still primarily crystal and he still creates both and three dragons hold ties to lightning.
As to the elements – okay, so I’ve been misunderstanding you. But that still doesn’t change the last notion I brought up. Why would they care about the elements of where they woke up? And three Elder Dragons at least had the same element their previous awakening, and by your wording it should change during each awakening. If that’s the case, then why would it matter for what element’s near them when they wake? And alternatively, why wouldn’t/couldn’t they change said element while awake? It makes no sense.
Furthermore, Kralkatorrik doesn’t wake up near crystal nor lightning – he wakes up near water and run of the mill Ascalonian-looking nature as seen here – so that’s a pretty big flaw in your theory still, regardless of Jormag (also, how the hell does lightning create crystal?). You seem content to ignore the fact of Kralkatorrik making the element too and without previous ties to it during this awakening, while arguing why Jormag doesn’t counter your argument.
Maybe it wasn’t you who brought up Mordremoth using plantlife because that’s what is near him, but someone did in the same manner using Zhaitan and Primordus as equal examples.
Considering you can kill him, and I believe the appearance is different.
No.
Names are mostly Mediterranean. They’re not perfect copies of cultures, so I wouldn’t discount things because the poor class’s clothing looks tribal (yes, all those Krytans you meet in GW1 are part of the poor class because the White Mantle took all the wealth of the kingdom).
Yes, they are.
15charr
@regfurby’s latest post: we do know that some (if not all) higher level minions are enslaved souls – the Sovereign Eye of Zhaitan entraps King Reza’s soul, for instance. Similarly, we know lower level minions do not enslave souls – there’s a Crusader who’s ghost is in Mount Maelstrom who says her body now roams as a risen. There’s also the Risen Wraiths which by definition of a Wraith should be a soul itself, and they’re fairly rare – only existing in certain high level areas or are named.
Kellach is unique in that he wasn’t corrupted by an Elder Dragon directly, but rather used an artifact which contained Zhaitan’s corruption. Kind of like how Sons of Svanir willingly become icebrood, he willingly became a “living risen” by using Zhaitan’s power – there’s also a necromancer in the charr storyline which is utilizing Zhaitan’s power in a similar means, but not herself but on others instead (your legionnaire got an amulet which is talked about in the tutorial/first conversation with surviving warband member which is brought up again in the lvl 20-30 storyline explaining how that amulet slowly turns its wearer into a risen and drawing other risen to it – Kellach likely suffered from the same kind of effect).
I think the OP means the interactable presents which spawn mobs seen in WvW – but I’d bet this is mechanics too, so as to not force people play PvE in order to get these.
The Champion Svanir Marauder in Svanir’s Dome (Wayfarer Foothills meta): he does, in fact, speak. This surprised me too. While using an Icebrood model he does not have Icebrood in his name… this led me to check the next item.
So then I misremember – well it’s not surprising he speaks, given how we know more powerful dragon minions holds more intelligence – irregardless of look, the strongest ones will be capable of speaking.
All Sons of Svanir showing signs of corruption are labelled as Icebrood:
What I said was all generic (read: non-leaders/the weaker folks) are labelled as icerbood.
I didn’t want to use Gavin as an example, as although he professes to be part of the Nightmare Court, his character is decidedly un-Nightmare Court-like.
Which is exactly my point – and he’s not the only one. If I remember correctly the Knight of Embers from the Where Life Goes storyline, as well as all three champions from Twilight Arbor (one being Sariel from the White Stag storyline too) are also lighter skinned than your run of the mill low ranked Nightmare Courtiers.
I meant that the dragons (and not their minions) chose their element based on their original location; Primordus awoke deep underground among rock and lava, Jormag awoke in the far north among snow and ice, Zhaitan awoke beneath an ancient submerged rotting city (other than rot, he seems to like coral, barnacles, tentacle-things and suddenly bursting out from the water), and Kralkatorrik awoke as a ‘mountain’ in the middle of a lake (my OP has a theory on how Kralkatorrik might be using electricity to create the crystals; he is described as being surrounded by storm clouds and having ‘golden breath’, and his original location might have been frequently subject to storms… my belief is that his element is electricity rather than crystal). All these suggest that the dragons simply took as their element whatever they were in contact with when they awoke, and not in relation to their desire (for example, Glint, who was a champion of Kralkatorrik in his previous awakening, looks nothing like the Shatterer or other Branded minions).
Kralkatorrik isn’t the only Elder Dragon related to lightning – there’s lightning around where Zhaitan is in Arah (jump from the ship after killign him and you’ll see beneath the fog), as well as in Drakkar Spurs in Frostgorge Sound (and where the end boss of the Snowblind Fractal is with Jormag’s corruption). So I doubt Kralkatorrik uses lightning to form crystals – and even if he does, that still counters your argument because he’s making crystals using something he’s making. Though Glint looks nothing like the Shatterer, she’s still crystal – Kralkatorrik’s element.
Coral being on the Orrian undead and on Orr’s surface is due to the fact that it was submerged for 150 years. It has nothing to do with Zhaitan’s corruption because only Orrian undead/Orr are coral covered – not his dragon champions nor his newer undead.
If it were a case of using one’s nearby element, then there wouldn’t be a theme to their corruption – Zhaitan would corrupt living beings, Primordus would have non-fiery minions, and so forth, because while the minions might not choose the element, they’re still forced to make it and they’re all controlled by their Elder Dragon (with the more powerful ones having a slightly larger set of sentience and capabilities to control weaker minions). And it still wouldn’t explain why icebrood become ice, rather than merge with it (which would be the case if they were using their surrounding elements as you suggest).
@Thalador: My issue with that theory you’ve told me before is in the Nightmare Court’s actions – they torment to corrupt, and they continue tormenting until conversion/corruption. Even the weak don’t die off from this, as far as we have seen.
Even if Kralk could corrupt corpses (Kralk’s MO is corrupting physical things – the only thing uncorrupted by the Dragonbrand is water, though it might be tainted, and ghosts – and as such he might be able to corrupt corpses just as Jormag does (in Edge of Destiny chapter 1, there’s an icebrood of a norn who went to face the Dragonspawn who’s face is half-crushed no way did the norn survive such), Snaff wouldn’t become branded because right after his death Zojja cremated him. His ashes lie in the floor somewhere in Zojja (formerly Snaff’s) lab in Rata Sum.
@Regfurby: Except that the only dragon to have “partial corruption” is Jormag and Jormag alone – and this is because he first corrupts mentally and the bodies turn to ice slowly (per Edge of Destiny, chapter 1 iirc), so in a way even that’s not a partial corruption but a full one and the body just takes time to change (the only arguable partial corruptions are the Sons of Svanir, but all icebrood become more ice-filled as time progresses be they willingly or forced corruptions). Kralkatorrik and Zhaitan both corrupt fully immediately. Primordus is a bit of a question – it seems it takes time for destroyers to form, based off of Edge of Destiny, but there’s still only “rocks and lava” and “destroyer” stages.
The Sons of Svanir’s “blue skin” is actually ice – their arms and legs turn to ice first, based on the various models, and many grow ice horns too. As time goes on, their entire bodies get turned to ice (the oakheart-like icebrood norn and icebrood goliath models), then the ice expands (icebrood colossus model). But they’re all corrupted fully even as ice is forming.
Of those who are actually called Sons of Svanir and use an icebrood model (your “stage 1”), they are indeed all shamans, zealots, and other stronger/higher ranked members – and in fact, it’s because they’re turning/turned into icebrood that they’re higher ranked members – per norn blog post. Those which are not leaders of the Sons of Svanir but are corrupted are not ever called Sons of Svanir, but icebrood – this is because they’re your run of the mill mindless dragon minion (whereas the SoS leaders are more akin to champions – not only are they higher ranked in the SoS but they’re higher ranked in the icebrood leadership too, having been given more magic and thus more intelligence – presuming that fact for icebrood is the same as how Zhaitan works).
The only high ranking SoS member who’s a “stage 2” (again, as you put it) icebrood is the Wayfarer Foothills meta event boss, which never speaks iirc and was, in fact, locked up in the largest steading. Seemed more like a pet than a leader.
As to NC without black eyes, I have no images but this video does have Gavin, a high ranking NC member, who is both light colored and, though the image is small, his eyes look green to me. Briarthorn Den is a very poor example, btw, as it uses the generic NC models throughout, which using them for a basis would be like saying all Flame Legion have orange fur with white stripes (a common fur combination of generic non-shaman FL personel).
As for what dragons twist – you’re mixing up two concepts that seem to be behind the Elder Dragons. From my observations, and though this is still theory as it stands, each Elder Dragon seems to hold not only an element, but also a desire/mentality/persona/etc. To this I’d link the ED as such:
Zhaitan: Element=Rot (I disagree with death/undeath because CoE has a swamp for his zone and even immediately turned minions turn gray and rotten, so it’s not simple undeath); Desire=Immortality
Jormag: Element=Ice; Desire=Power
Kralkatorrik: Element=Crystal; Desire=Greed/Perfection
Primordus: Element=Fire; Desire=Genocide
DSD: Element=Water; Desire=too hard to tell
Mordremoth: Element=Plants(?); Desire=sadism(?)
My reasoning behind their desire is talked about in this thread (sans Mordremoth, since I hadn’t researched him fully at the time), though the conversation was carried into a new thread here.
The thing to note about their element is that 1) Kralkatorrik made his element, so its not related to his location for him; 2) the risen become rotten regardless of the body’s state prior to being so; 3) icebrood bodies become ice, rather than being merged with it, which would be the case if it were related to its surroundings; 3) destroyers make volcanic areas for their “breeding” zones (I use the term “breeding” loosely and mean "a place where they make more of themselves via corrupting the newly made magmic areas). If their element was based on their location, then these things would not be true – or at least be necessary – and we’d be seeing non-fiery destroyers and non-crystalline branded.
Well, Jormag’s heavily hinted to converse with the Sons of Svanir – both corrupted and not.
We don’t really need Cantha to have Canthan New Year, seeing how Divinity’s Reach has descendants of Canthans – as does Lion’s Arch. However, I don’t see why we even need Canthan New Year in GW2 anyways, especially in the first year.
If the content would only introduce Cantha via some side-content comments, then there’s really no need to do that since Cantha already has such content, it’s just not a focus. If its adding Cantha itself, I just don’t see it given the predicting size of it (based off of Halloween/The Lost Shores/Wintersday content).
Would you really want, nay, expect a full new continent in January and February? While Fractals of the Mists does hint to Cantha being coming in the near future, I cannot see more than 3-5 zones being made, which is far too little for Cantha’s introduction if you ask me.
Cantha’s more likely to be part of an actual expansion, rather than two possibly-unlinked content updates that are the size of an expansion.
As… funny… as this is, this isn’t lore but fan-generated content.
It’s not so much that Primordus can’t, but rather that he doesn’t. We’re told that each Elder Dragon corrupts and acts differently, and we’ve only been told that Primordus twists rock and lava – the only case of a being turned into a destroyer we see is in CoE story mode which is far from credible given how a kodan is turned into a branded charr, and a human into an icebrood quaggan (which minions they turn into seems to be random, as is their own model).
I suspect that its a choice to not corrupt anything that is or was organic, rather than being incapable of such.
Not all Sons of Svanir are corrupted – those who appear like average norn aren’t corrupted at all, yet. And in fact, few Sons of Svanir are corrupted – only the leaders, though not all of them, are corrupted and use icebrood models.
And like the darker skin, for Nightmare Courtiers, the higher members – including Faolain iirc- certainly don’t all have black eyes.
Except that Primordus’s minions were lava and rock from the start – he corrupts rock and lava, not living beings. This was a stated thing (by the devs iirc) and even the mentors all mention how it’s either a being formerly pregnant or a new type of minion – meaning they don’t know the situation, which implies that they don’t know Primordus, for whatever reason, doesn’t corrupt living beings. If you look at these “eggs” they look too unlike normal eggs – that is to say, they appear to me to be mobile spawning pools (what the destroyers are made from per Edge of Destiny). This is supported not only by their size but also the fact that not only Destroyer Crablings, but Destroyer Crabs (and iirc, Destroyer Trolls) spawn from these “eggs.”
I don’t think we’ve seen any “physical corruption” in the Nightmare Court – that is, in the sylvari. People tend to point out how their appearance is darker, but that’s certainly not unique to the Nightmare Court, but is unique to the grunts of the Nightmare Court – the special NPC members, such as Gavin, are a much lighter color. Nightmare Courtiers are, with the exception of their personality, able to mingle into the populas of sylvari.
Given the placement of Ronan, the cave had to be in the Maguuma Jungle – but likely in the western edge that’s unexplorable in GW2 (and possibly GW1); given the proximity, I find it unlikely that the sylvari are an ancient race that somehow managed to avoid detection when Krytan trade routes went to the western coast through the Maguuma Jungle during the Guild Wars.
The things I’m expecting/hoping for the most is either focusing on:
Jormag’s hinted at a lot as being the next Elder Dragon to face, and I’m having troubles seeing an entire expansion focusing on Jormag story-wise, so if the two months’ updates are together one expansion’s worth then Jormag being the focus of effectively half an expansion makes sense. Furthermore, five (especially consecutive) expansions focusing on Elder Dragons would be rather boring.
After that, of all the enemies fought so far, the ones who’re dealt the least amount of damage are bandits and the Nightmare Court, who are in an alliance with each other and Inquest, and there’s Fort Vandal in Brisban Wildlands which is a PoI that holds dozens of level 80 champions, on top of this there’s a visible portal leading north into the Maguuma Wastes showing that Anet’s got plans for there (if not hopes for plans). On top of this, Faolain is still alive and the Inquest, though damaged, are still kicking – Caudecus who’s likely linked to the White Mantle (who in turn are the leaders of the bandits, though the low level bandits don’t know this according to the Shining Blade) is also still alive and a hidden room was found in Caudecus’ Manor dungeon which to me hints at a second explorable mode (as do the ending dialogues which talk about further investigations on the bandits). And besides all of this, the White Mantle are the most hidden yet hold the most ties to the most races as alongside the aforementioned stuff they’re allied with centaurs (who hold hatred for both humans and norn), and obviously mursaat who know of the Elder Dragons and if investigated may wield info on them. And all of this isn’t even mentioning the more speculative storyplots that could revolve around the White Mantle (e.g., Isgarren).
It’d be greater, though, if both months focused on a single plot – that way it won’t feel rushed or half-arsed as compared to Southsun Cove.
There are other possible content that I see coming, but they seem less likely as they’re either less of a focus (Primordus/DSD) or a better candidate (imo) for a payred release expansion (Kralkatorrik/Crystal Desert/Elona(?), DSD/Unending Ocean, tengu/largos expanded lore/playability).
dragons are basically human gods
Not in the least.
the dragons operate on a cycle to wipe tyria clean of civilizations…. why?
They work in cycles because they run out of food, their food is magic. I don’t think the existence of civilizations matter to them.
and who ordered them to do it?
Who orders you to eat?
Little – if any – difference.
the dragons seem to co operate with one anothers minions not attacking one another
Wrong. We were explicitly told by Jeff Grubb and Ree Soesbee before rleease that dragon minions will attack each other. However, the only place we see them within claws length of each other is Crucible of Eternity which given the mechanical nature of dungeons is a bit odd (all foes in a single dungeon hold the same affiliation and thus are made as allies).
if nothing commanded them to ravage the earth then how are they going to top six dragons for a nemisis?
By presenting something that isn’t acting on impulse.
An intelligent enemy is far more deadly than a powerful animal – which is effectively what Elder Dragons are. They do have thoughts and can strategize, but so can, for instance, wolves.
maybe shiro is a pawn of the crystal dragon?
There’s absolutely no relation between Shiro Tagachi and Kralkatorrik. None at all.
Shiro Tagachi didn’t crystallize anything, he petrified the sea. It just so happens to be that the petrified form of water is a crystalline form. And note that Kralkatorrik doesn’t crystallize water.
There are plenty of Svanir shamans. I haven’t done the fractal but I did watch a video of it but saw nothing unique to that Svanir guy? He just has ice attacks and some corrupted ice shards spawn around him.
Or are you referring to the greater ice elemental that’s the mid-way boss? In which there’s a Wayfarer Foothills meta which focuses on one too, summoned by a Sons of Svanir shaman (who temporarily transforms into an icebrood goliath model).
Of all the fractals, the Snowblind fractal is probably the least odd, imo. The Sons of Svanir have access to the Mists due to them having captured the Wolf Havroun (as seen during one of the norn storylines), so those SoS could be your standard Sons of Svanir, rather than Mists-made ones.
I do hope you’re just being sarcastic there, which I’m fairly sure you are, seeing how nothing says or implies largos can’t be corrupted.
Since the game models comprise the game and thus populate Tyria, the lack of a corrupted largo model means they are immune to corruption. We see Dougal in-game so we know he exists, and we see images of and references to Snaff, so he obviously exists as well.
So using your logic…
Centaurs, harpies, skritt, jotun, grawl, skale, skelk, rats, and so forth cannot be corrupted.
Horses do not exist, despite being referenced dozens of times.
Gorillas only exist as risen undead.
The Six Gods do not exist. Wolf, Raven, Snow Leopard, Ox, Owl, Eagle, Wurm do not exist (the Spirits of the Wild). Kalla Scorchrazor does not exist.
Your logic fails.
It does bring in questions, but it certainly doesn’t prove they’re immune to corruption.
There’s even an event chain where a largos huntress is poisoned and captured by an undead krait sorceror, but she isn’t turned into a risen despite being their “guest” for some time before the local quaggan mount a rescue attempt.
i believe this event chain was what the model was originally meant for until it was repurposed for Dwayna’s high priestesses.
As for no icebrood largos – given the fact that they keep secretive and Jormag corrupts via promises of power, unless they’re captured I doubt they’ll be corrupted – they seem to me like the kind of people who’d rather fight Jormag to prove their strength rather than fight for him to prove their strength.
The lack of models I’d presume is more that they were putting resources elsewhere, and the risen largos was repurposed in order to save resources on a Dwayna High Priest model. At least, that’s the reason I tell myself for why there’s no icebrood/branded wurms, icebrood centaurs, destroyer anything-but-troll/crab/harpy, icebrood/branded grawl, etc.
Interesting, though depending on one’s view, killing in war can be murder too, so its not saying too much.
The Asura have appropriately dubbed him the Human God of Murder.
Where’s this ever mentioned? News to me.
We don’t know where the Ash Legion lands are. We’re told that north is the Blood Legion Homelands, while east of the Blazeridge is where the Blood Legion’s citadel (thus capital) is, signifying they hold reign over there too.
Well we know very well that Balthazar has anger issues, what with killing a mortal over losing a boardgame. He would even destroy a village for a breach of etiquette. (source ) And given what the Orrian History Scrolls say about him (that he wanted humanity to rule the Tyrian world and that it wasn’t the first time he’s wrong when he thought humans would quickly defeat the other races, implying he’s wrong a lot), I wouldn’t say that Balthazar’s all honorable – he comes off to me as a loss-tempered warrior with high ideals and is overconfident (both of himself and humanity).
He comes off as the type who’d willingly kill his father just because said father’s preventing the progress which should be (humanity supremacy, for instance).
No we don’t have more information on his family. However, I’d like to point out that the state of Menzies’ divinity’s was never mentioned – he might be a god, he might be half-god, or he might be full-blown (dead and now spectral) mortal.
There’s more possibilities for why Balthazar was carrying his father’s head:
Balthazar could have been a greedy kitten and just decided to usurp his father in godhood (if his father was a god) – possibly even plotted with Menzies and then betrayed his half-brother.
Balthazar’s father was murdered by someone else (perhaps the possible mysterious plight that the Six Gods and humans might have left behind if my theories are right) and he was carrying his father’s head out of mourning (not very likely, I’m betting on conquest).
Hunting accident with his pet wolves and the body was too heavy/burdensome to carry.
While Dwayna’s the first to be on Tyria, Melandru’s the oldest (thus technically the “first of them”) – keep that in mind.
Arachnia’s canonocity is in question as all information on her comes from the gw.dat and thus isn’t “officially released.”
And nothing really says that there has to be and can only be six gods. It’s just that a god cannot be killed without a replacement of his/her power going supernova.
And it’s Balthazar who favors solely humans – though Lyssa and Abaddon may as well, but Dwayna and Melandru don’t favor only humans, and Grenth’s stance on non-human races is up in the air.
Considering Elona’s arid, and Kryta/Maguuma (non-Wastes)/Ascalon are not, I’d presume east of the Blazeridge is too north to be that arid.
I do hope you’re just being sarcastic there, which I’m fairly sure you are, seeing how nothing says or implies largos can’t be corrupted.
All lore says about it is that there is an “evil” force out in the Mists threatening to invade and the Mist Warriors/Mist War is meant to stop them. It also gives the whole “glory and honor is to be found in the Mists!” that was the PvP explanation in GW1 as well as the sPvP explanation (just competitions for fun, honor, glory, fame, etc.).
They did say that the content updates for January and February together will be the size of a standard expansion. Given the huge amount of hints to Jormag being the second Elder Dragon we’ll face (aside from that line, Drakkar Spurs, there’s the Honor of the Waves explorable ending dialogue which always has the Honor’s Claw talking about a shadow in the north threatening everyone; then there’s Havroun Grechin in the personal storyline saying many norn expect Jormag to be next after Zhaitan – and in overall activity, Jormag’s the most active after Zhaitan), I wouldn’t doubt that both will be focused on the Far Shiverpeaks and Jormag.
Uncategorized Fractal is undoubtably Rata Sum – unless all asura cities are giant floating cubes which have identical jailhouses.
The nature of the grawl shaman in the Volcano Fractal makes me think of what would happen if Primordus corrupted living beings – though this is probably just from me wishing that “imbued grawl shaman” model was used as a Destroyer model atop of the three current ones (then again, I feel the same for the dog version of the gargoyles from Halloween).
@Essarious: Uh, Zhu Hanuku was a kraken, not a leviathan – one’s a giant floating octopus/squid of sorts, the other is a big kitten aquatic caterpillar that one-shots. The latter doesn’t have tentacles, so I’m more inclined to think the Jade Maw is a kraken rather than leviathan, or its some Mist-made mixbreed of the two (very possible).
Whoever said it was a preference? I simply said that the fact that the forgotten were around during the last ED rise gives question to the claim that the race was brought to Tyria by the Six Gods – especially since the source which made said claim, as well as many things regarding the Six Gods in GW1, has been “proven wrong” (aka retconned from internal viewpoint, while extrapolated to say one source is wrong while another is right in lore).
I never said the forgotten weren’t brought by the Six, just that there’s evidence and reason to give the notion doubt where previously there was none.
In fact, I myself had presented an explanation in another thread about how the old lore could still work while the new lore is also true (or rather, a hypothesis on a situation which could lead to both being true).
To say I claim something I didn’t is disingenuous.
If something is changed while its in development, its not a retcon.
Its starting to get annoying how people are beginning to just throw “retcon! retcon!” everywhere. It’s like they don’t even know what the term means anymore.
I’m not aware of anything from GW2 which points to the Six Gods being around prior to the last ED rise. Arriving during is possible, though on the latter side of their rise, but we were told explicitly by Ree Soesbee that they arrived on Tyria after the mursaat-seer war and the writing of the original Tome of Rubicon – the former seems to have happened during the last ED rise (being the betrayal that the mursaat did before fleeing) and the latter based on contents at least occurred during the end of the last ED rise.
The only possible indication for the Six Gods being around while the Elder Dragons were last awake would be the fact that the forgotten were around then too. And that bit of lore comes from the History of Tyria which is being proven more and more “wrong” as we learn more lore (first Abaddon, then the creation of the world, then the bloodstones).
So ignoring the fact that it has absolutely nothing within its abdomen, and that its head is also hollow, and that the wings are literally just floating shards tethered by energy (as is its chest)…
Well, if you ignore those, and you’re only left with the legs, then yeah I guess you can argue it was once a living being because it really matches how the other Branded that were once living beings look (in which I mean their skin was grayed, they lost their hair, and everything beneath their skin became a pure solid mobile chunk of crystal – with the possible exception of minotaurs).
The Shatterer is without a doubt in my mind a bunch of rocks and crystals morphed and tethered together by energy – only the legs and head have any kind of detail to them that makes them look otherwise. The things basically a draconic purple Shadow Behemoth.
You know that it’s more likely – given the appearance of krait, karka, largos, and quaggan – that the DSD is closer to Tyria than to Cantha right? Or at the very least, is as big of a threat to continental Tyria as to Cantha. The only threat to Cantha the DSD poses would be sea trade which would be equal for all continents.
Furthermore, I’m fairly certain Joko is human (or rather, was). Ignoring height which is rather messy thanks to mechanics and we already have at least 5 other ten-foot tall humans in GW1 (let alone in GW2…).
The thing about Sohothin or Magdaer being in the hands of the rightful heir of Ascalon is a legend and may not be true. But Jennah and Wade Sammuelsson hold a much stronger chance at being candidates than Logan, given their geneology’s proven to tie to King Doric – and of the two, Wade moreso, given he’s both the commander of the Ebon Vanguard and the Duke of Ebonhawke.
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