Guild Wars 2

About Blood Legion “not being an enemy faction”?

So were sylvari.

So were priests of Balthazar and the Zaishen.

We’ve had lore for far longer hinting that Imperator Bangar could prove harmful to the charr-human peace negotiations; that he’s actually opposed to it but goes along because Ash and Iron do and he doesn’t want to fight both legions on top of other charr issues.

With two or three of those issues – Flame Legion, Foefire ghosts, and Branded – being heavily weakened if not removed by the actions of Season 1, Season 2, and PoF respectively – I could see Bangar deciding to play up his wildcard lore and become a threat.

Some folks – like myself – even theorize that Bangar is secretly behind the Renegades, as we do have lore indicating that most Renegades come from Blood Legion (as did Ajax who led the Renegades for a short time).

The “one big city” is actually called Kaineng City, grown so large due to refugee influx after the Jade Wind. Bukdek Byway was just a street/walkway of sorts from Kaineng Center (a plaza and merchant square) towards other squares and docks (Vizunah Square and Kaineng Docks for example).

There were two or three other cities based on the world map, in Cantha.

But again – the naga were never pushed out to make Kaineng City (or any other city), nor were the tengu best we know. The tengu mostly lived on Shing Jea Island, though some did live on the mainland. Some of those did live in the city but they were not “forced out” of their lands.

Should also be noted that before the Jade Wind and the refugee influx that caused (something that humans should not be blamed for, since it was the deed of Shiro being manipulated by demons and fallen gods), most of northern Cantha was still proper landscapes. Take Zin Ku Corridor for example, described as a humble hill before the Jade Wind, but after became a “dark, humid, and smelly corridor”.

The same event that caused naga, warden, and dragon to go crazy in Cantha also forced the Empire to drastically expand their housing and capital city. Despite that, such events did not force out any cultured, civilized race. Any non-human race that might have lived there, joined the city to all our knowledge.

We actually had dev confirmation that all three alliances survived (Molten Alliance, Toxic Alliance, and Aetherblades). We never dealt with their leaders after all. But they didn’t want to bring them back “right away” because reasons.

Sadly, HoT was the perfect time to bring back the Toxic Alliance, given Tower of Nightmares has some obvious hindsight ties to Mordrem/Mordremoth.

Amaimon.7823:

On a side note, Cantha did.
The Naga, kappa and Tengu were driven away to make room for Kaineng.
The wardens desperately prevent them from taking everything.
The Naga were originally ‘neutral’ but got caught between the Jade Wind and the xenophobic Canthan. The few survivors joined or become the Krait. But with the melting of the Jade Sea the kinder Naga may return.

I honestly hope we’ll get to see them again. Naga are among may favourite fantasy races (the snake kind, not the human kind)

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Naga

False. Firstly, kappa are not a civilized group – they’re like wolves, bears, rabbits; just wildlife creatures.

Secondly, there is zero recorded hostility between naga and Canthans until the Jade Wind. In fact, the two being in peace is stressed as part of naga lore as you link to. To quote the Factions manual, the naga are “water-dwelling creatures related to sea snakes which evolved a culture at peace with humans”.

In regards to hostility grown from races being “driven away to make room for Kaineng” (which isn’t even accurate – Kaineng is just one city in the empire, and no other cultured race lived where that city now is; only wildlife would have been driven out) was the tengu, who were living in peace in Shing Jea Island before humans spread there.

Torolan.5816:

They are probably the most victimized yet still the most non-threatening minor race for others because they operate mostly underground, and where they don´t operate underground primarily clash with members of the priory who are searching for dwarfen relics, aka grave robbers. I don´t want to put them on a pedestral, they are evil enough, but especially these guys have a reason to be bitter.

Uh, I don’t know where you get the “non-threatening for others because they operate mostly underground” – if you do any event involving dredge, they are threatening because they are not remaining underground. They’re trying to reach the surface and take land by force – whether they’re dealing with Priory, norn, or kodan. One kodan comments on the dredge being bad because they’re “pulling an asura” (reaching for surface territory ignoring the potential cost of others) and anothe does the same because they’re mining beyond their needs without replenishing wildlife.

Torolan.5816:

The Stone Summit pretty much blocked refugees from reaching Lions Arch after Ascalon City was as good as sacked. Not because they needed to do it, just because for the heck of it and maybe as a last battlecry for their deceasing empire. i have to admit my memories fail me for the exact location where this happened, but I have the far Shiverpeaks in mind for that Blockade.

The Stone Summit were not “decreasing” nor did they have an empire. They were a rebellious group of dwarves creating a civil war that’s only lasted a few decades/century tops (as it was founded by Jalis’ cousin who wanted power). Their only “death cry” was in Eye of the North, after their leader and their main base were destroyed.

The Far Shiverpeaks was never where Ascalonians went to flee into Kryta, btw. You’re merging two separate events entirely – the events of early Prophecies with the side-quests of Eye of the North.

Torolan.5816:

The territory held by hostile Ogre forces is rather small. They are either really bad at invading, hold places undiscovered yet or have been thrown out of territory they once controlled. HoT ogres are pretty helpful and friendly. 2 types of ogres maybe?

Rather than being bad at invading, they’ve been blocked off by the Dragonbrand. Some have since become friendlier (like those in the PS), while others actively fight Ebonhawke forces.

The HoT ogres come from one of the friendlier invading ogres. Particularly, they are the same exact tribe that is met in the personal story for norn/charr who choose to aide the ogres against the Dragonbrand.

But the ogre’s main territories is in the Blazeridge Mountains, outside of the explorable zones.

I find it funny how unsupported assumptions are made commonplace somehow.

Nothing ever calls Kralkatorrik “the largest Elder Dragon” – this is 100% player supposition based on the sizes of Kralkatorrik, Primordus, and what was incorrectly thought to be Jormag in Eye of the North. However, even Primordus got a massive size upgrade in Season 3 (big enough to make him dwarf Zhaitan and Mordremoth the way they dwarf dragons like Tequatl and Shadow of the Dragon).

@Arden: Only one has been destroyed to player knowledge, as I said.

Well from the earliest leaks that we had gotten about PoF around Episode 2’s release, they said Lazarus was Balthazar, the expansion would deal with Primordus and Kralkatorrik in the Crystal Desert, and that Season 4 would be focusing on Joko in Elona, however given PoF maps also take place in both Crystal Desert and Elona, and no Primordus, I think its possible that leaker mistook second half of PoF for S4, perhaps (and Balthazar for Primordus in the expansion).

Either way, what felt like an idiotic leak came partially true so who knows. Seems a lot of plot directions I’d consider silly or bad are being taken.

Better question:

What happened to challenge motes? Even in HoT, there was only one. I really enjoyed making fights more difficult (because unlike most players on the forums it seems I’m actually competent – take the E4 Caudecus fight… I found no issue with it pre-nerf, at all). Only thing I disliked about them in S2 was the need to complete the instance on that particular character (rather than by just any character) unlike the one HoT challenge mote.

Forgot this bit and previous post too long to add onto:

Arden.7480:

BTW the another dragons consumed both Mordremoth’s and Zhaitan’s powers so they are even more powerful than when they last stirred. Kralkatorrik is such giantic dragon but I am sure after consuming the magic of the others he is much bigger and he contains much more magic than before.

Look at Primordus in GW1 and in LS3- he is much, much, much bigger than in GW1.

Mordemoth’s magic and influence were really big- Mordremoth was the whole Maguuma Jungle and his powers spread even far away from his domain!! It reached to Dragonbrand in Ascalon!!

Uh, just want to say a few things about this…

Firstly, Primordus’ growth is never attributed to the amount of magic consumed – no Elder Dragon is said to physical grow with more magic. Only imps seem to do that. Anet even hinted that “what we saw in GW1” was not Primordus because “they never said that” (which is a big fat lie / retcon if they go with that – they did many, many times say that statue was Primordus; much more arguable to say he covered himself with molten rock as a bit of a “battle armor” or something).

Secondly, Mordremoth was not “the whole Maguuma Jungle” – his physical body was the Mouth of Mordremoth seen in-game. His vines, which are corruption he can telepathically control – spread throughout the jungle. That’s what the NPCs meant when they said “he is the jungle” – not that he actually was the jungle, but that due to his domain of mind he is practically inseparable from his corruption, which are the vines spread throughout the jungle and beyond.

Arden.7480:

Imagine if Destiny’s Edge would kill Kralkatorrik… If they would then other Dragons would awake and Tyria would never handle it.

The other dragons – sans Mordremoth – were already awake and active…

Arden.7480:

Because if another dragon dies all life on Tyria will be destroyed.

Now you see that Bloodstone’s magic is nothing when you compare it with Dragons’.

You make it sound like it’s the dragons’ magic which will kill the world. Technically, it may be just clashing opposite energies against each other for all we know. It may also just be because the Elder Dragons are tied to the All – and the amount of magic doesn’t matter so much as The All being in balance does.

Also, technically, “the Bloodstones’ magic” is the exact same as “the Dragons’ magic” – the difference is merely where it is located, and how much there is in that location.

Quarktastic.1027:

Why does Balthazar need to go after an elder dragon specifically when there are still 4 bloodstones scattered about Tyria, just waiting to get blown to bits by a vengeful god. I mean, Balthazar is probably stronger than Kralkatorrik at this point, after absorbing the magic of one bloodstone, and most of the magic from Jormag and Primordus.

TL;DR the five Bloodstones are smaller in amounts of magic compared to Elder Dragons, and Balthazar is not one of patience.

He doesn’t seem to be stronger than Kralkatorrik either, otherwise he wouldn’t need an army. He didn’t use one when bringing the machine right before Primordus.

And he didn’t absorb most of the magic from Jormag and Primordus – it seemed more that he was just skimming off a bit from both. Otherwise they likely would have had smaller beams leaving the machine after entering (the beams looked largely the same going in and leaving).

Quarktastic.1027:

Perhaps he still can’t extract bloodstone magic on his own, despite being one of the gods that created them? And he was only able to absorb the magic from the bloodstone in bloodstone fen because the white mantle had been tampering with it for years?

The gods didn’t create the Bloodstone, the Seers did – albeit from “divine resources”. If the White Mantle tampering with the Bloodstone could allow Balthazar to absorb it, he could just tamper with then absorb the others the same way.

@ Arden, the “five bloodstones” are HUGE. They’re the size of large buildings. The one in Arah Seer path was not even the size of a human. It was not one of the five Bloodstones.

Further, the Shard in Arah was never indicated to be weakened, by any means. The risen used the five fist-sized shards to empower themselves, but none of the Bloodstones were ever drained (all indication shows that Bloodstones are invisible to the Elder Dragons magic detection/consumption, given how Zhaitan was near two large chunks, and Mordremoth near two as well – and not a one was touched). The High Priests were not Bloodstone-Crazed either.

While it’s true the five Bloodstones are not powerful enough to compare to an Elder Dragon, they do have a ton of magic in them (the Bloodstone Fen’s explosion was going to wipe out Lion’s Arch if not for Balthazar, according to Almorra – that’s over half of Central Tyria wiped out).

Arden.7480:

There was one Bloodstone who blew apart in Abaddon’s Mouth volcano into 5 pieces- we and Zhaitan destroyed one, White Mantle and Balthazar destroyed second one.

So if we are lucky the other 3 are untouched. But one of them is known to be in the Shiverpeaks so Jormag is likely using it to keep himself powerful. Other 2 (If I am not wrong) are remaining unknown.

Uh, no. You should read up on Bloodstone lore again, you’re greatly misunderstanding.

The original singular Bloodstone was split in Arah – the five fist-sized chunks and the one human-sized chunk is from that splitting, as Randall said the division wasn’t perfect.

Then the five largest pieces were thrown in Abaddon’s Mouth – eventually the volcano erupted, sending those five large pieces out. One fell right back into the caldera, another landed in the Southern Shiverpeaks (in that small unexplored area between Sparkfly and Lornar’s Pass, roughly), and a third landed in Bloodstone Fen. We do not know where the other two are.

Only one of the five Bloodstones – the Maguuma Bloodstone in Bloodstone Fen one – was destroyed.

Randall disappears at the end of Arah seer path. He doesn’t seem to be on Tyria at all anymore. It may not even be that he is alive anymore. During that final fight, he turns into a red-translucent version of himself, kind of like a ghost, and his voice even changes ever so slightly. And his voice change definitely became monotone, indicating some sort of mental change.

This is why for Burden of Choice achievement, we go to Randall’s apprentice on Seer culture and history, rather than Randall himself.

Palawa Joko hated the centaurs. He enjoyed enslaving and turning them more than humans. The Velderunners was the last of the Elonian centaurs due to Varesh Ossa’s own enslavement, and the Losaru were in central/northern Crystal Desert (now Crystal Oasis’ western half). Both are well within Joko’s reach.

However, the former seems to be outside of PoF areas (not even on the world map if I’m correct) while we got no hints to the latter in the demo – doesn’t exclude them, that said. Hopefully the Losaru are not driven to extinction due to their human-eating ways.

Amaimon.7823:

But those are actually different tribes. We know for a fact that maguuman, shiverpeak/north-krytan, and elonian centaurs are different in both design and culture. The centaurs we meet in gw2 are Modniir, and distinct from the elonian centaurs. They are all primal in nature, but the maguuman and elonian seem to have developed a great culture, whilst the Modniir learned they could just take what they want with brute force

There are six centaur tribes known to us: Losaru (Crystal Desert), Velderunner (Kourna), Maguuma (Maguuma Wastes; formerly Maguuma Jungle), Harathi (formerly Maguuma – has schismed since gw1’s time), Modniir (formerly Shiverpeak), and Tamini (not seen in GW1, from Woodland Cascades).

All six tribes are cultured and intelligent. But four of them (Losaru, Modniir, Tamini, and Harathi) hate humans – why Losaru hate humans is unclear, but Modniir, Tamini, and Harathi were all pushed out of their homelands by Krytans, and later on Modniir were almost wiped out by norn and humans in Eye of the North (leading to further hatred). The long-lasting war with humans have devolved some of that culture, particularly for the Modniir (they’ve become less religious and more bloodthirsty).

So it isn’t that they don’t have communication – rather, they just don’t bother with it due to wartimes (we actually see some Modniir and Harathi centaurs being communicative with the Lionguard – Outcast Quinivi (sp?) and a negotiator in one of Kessex Hills’ havens respectively).

Torolan.5816:

Humans, Dwarfs, Krait and Charr(Asura are a plague in itself, but not a plague for Tyria^^) are the real plague of Tyria. Not Centaurs, Hylek, Ogres, or Dredge who are all more or less the victims of other races powergrabs.

I disagree. Ogres are invaders, the instigators, not humans or charr in that case – this is 100% the case, as they’re taking advantage of the charr-human peace negotiations (and before then, they were assaulting both human and charr controlled Ascalon for some time). And dredge, while a dark past of enslavement, have become instigators in their own right. So they are not exempt from their own deeds.

Dwarves as a whole were not bad either – only the Stone Summit were. But that’s just to show that no race is fully good or fully evil. They also never made a mess of the Shiverpeaks – not sure where you got that from.

Humans and charr definitely had their own past of darkness but it seems to have, well, past by now. (Side note: Charr took no territory of humans that wasn’t their first – granted, Ascalon seemed to have been dwarven before it was charr by all indication, and only charr for less than a generation, though no direct statement on the matter was ever said).

Torolan.5816:

Humans spread like a plague over Tyria. Everywhere they went they got their butts handed to them basically, so now they are back at square one and have to hold to the few stretches of land they officially control. The probably best nation of humans is controlled by pirates of all people, although pirates came closest to democracy in the age of the great seafarers.

Just want to say: humans only invaded others’ territories in the case of Ascalon and Kryta. At least initially.

Orr had no prior known inhabitants, neither did Istan or Vabbi. Cantha did not either – though Shing Jea did so shame on them there – and the humans there got alone very well with naga (the only other sapient species aside from tengu) until the Jade Wind turning them hostile (so thanks to Shiro/Abaddon for that one!). Kourna did have centaurs, however until Joko and Varesh the humans and centaurs there lived in relative peaceful terms – and Joko, at least, was a threat to both humans and centaurs (living that is). Ascalon was taken from the conquering charr, so I wouldn’t label that as bad – arguably bad would be not giving it back to the prior inhabitants (super-primitive grawl and dwarves).

I’m rather hoping that the Flame Legion don’t become involved. Firstly, because after Primordus’ short run and Balthazar’s expansion, we’ll probably be tired of fire foes like we tired of undead after Zhaitan or sylvari with Mordremoth. But more importantly, the story so far.

With Citadel of Flames (both story and explorable), the Flame Legion was plunged into civil war and the greatest contender to replace (or revive) Gaheron were eliminated. This is part of why the Molten Alliance became a thing – a portion of that civil war splintered off to gain power. After all the hits they took, I’d imagine that (like the dredge and their civil war and splintering) their evil factions are low in numbers and power.

Instead, I think Season 4 will either deal around Elona, or if we do go back north (which I’m more hopeful for) it’ll be focused around the peace treaty – and the Renegades and Separatists. That plot has been around for a while, and would be a good way to transition from human plot to charr plot (just as the Maguuma depths was used to bring us to the White Mantle and human plots again).

We do come face to face with Minotaur in the norn PS.

There is also Spirit of Wolf though it’s unclear if that is the Spirit of the Wild or not (the context of its appearance does imply it is though).

As other said, the “minor” Spirits of the Wild can disappear for generations – for many reasons. Some may be more distant than others (like Gorilla), others may simply be less invested in the norn. Hare is another Spirit of the Wild that, like Minotaur, had been questioned to even exist due to its lack of contact.

Ox/Dolyak, Eagle, and Wolverine did not have havrouns at the time they fought Jormag – Owl did, and this is why the norn know that Owl is dead, because her Havroun felt her death. There were still shamans to Dolyak until recently (Forgal’s father is said to be “the last dolyak shaman”), but simple shamans don’t have the same connection to their Spirits as Havrouns do.

If I had to guess, I’d go with Aaron’s assessment – Wolverine is likely dead, while Ox is not. Or it’s possible all three are alive – after all, we were told that the death of a Spirit of the Wild affects all animals under it (so in Owl’s case, all owls were affected) – no indication exists that dolyaks/oxen, eagles, or wolverines were affected… but we also do not see any wolverines in-game.

Luindu.2418:

-snip-

1. The gods didn’t “give” any magic. Like I said, the GWW only talks about lore as known in GW1, but in GW2 it was learned that the story we knew from GW1 about the “gift of magic” was false. The “gift of magic” was just releasing magic which was in the Bloodstone the Seers created – magic which the Seers had taken from the world.
   I never said gods cannot use Tyrian magic – just that dragons cannot seem to use divine magic (as proven by the fact Balthazar stood in front of an army of magic-consuming destroyers and Primordus itself before activating the machine; as shown with the Divine Fire of Season 2 which warded off mordrem; as implied with Forgotten magic and Foefire magic, both hinted to be tied to the divine, being immune to dragon corruption and the former even able to revert corruption to some degree).
2. I never said anything of that. I said the Desolation was not risen, because it was already above sea level. Further, the mountains are not part of the Desolation – this seems to be your misunderstanding, perhaps.
   Why is it “created the Crystal Desert and the Desolation”? Because it did create the Desolation, but it did not raise it. It turned a verdant coastline into a sulfurous wasteland, thus creating the Desolation.
3. Perhaps you meant the “Mouth of Torment”: https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/The_Mouth_of_Torment which is vastly different from the Gate of Torment ?
   The Gate of Torment isn’t even on the world of Tyria, so yes, it is indeed very very far away.

Luindu.2418:

Also, let me explain what i ask you that: first you said that “abaddon’s make the RoT looks like Elona” (when i defend the corruption as tentacles) and then i ask you “why Abaddon (God of Water and Secrets) fill his own domain with sand (and a desert look like)? (remember that lyssa take the water after Nightfall events)” Is like you’re saying that will be normal if Balthazar fullfill his domain with peacefull people.

I seriously do not understand what you’re saying.

Abaddon’s realm – the Realm of Torment – has no sand in it… There is no water either.

Abaddon may be the “god of water” but he never had a ownership of a location that was full of water, nor did he ever fill said hypothetical location with sand (nor did anyone else). Nightfallen Jahai nor the Nightfallen Garden are not full of sand.

Luindu.2418:

1. i can accept that the “ring” over that hole is the earth but what is for you the great white hole in the cinematic? I point a kind of “vortex” as a part of The All mechanism that make posible a secure form to share that energy.

Great white hole? You mean the golden globe? That is Tyria.

Luindu.2418:

Your mockup is the same think i was thinking you said, but you mess the lands at your will (elona map):

• The Desolation is a part of elona (the part where was the Vortex to RoT at same height of Vabbi in both maps) and extends (as we saw in the full world map you post after) to Orr, but you put Elona at southeast.
• [url=https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Ronjok]Marga Coast as ronjok village being,[url] was in the southwest coast of Elona (south of the Desolation) but you put it at the east of the desolation.
• Vabbi at north of Elona when Vabbi is part of Elona.

I did not mess up anything. I think you’re misinterpreting things greatly – look again. Most of Elona – including Marga Coast – is off the map to the south (like I said, I did not go south far enough for proper use in this discussion). I do not know why you’re saying Ronjok is “east of the Desolation” in that map – it’s not on the map at all (I actually forgot about including Marga Coast when I made the map).. Vabbi is off the map to the east. The Primeval Kings only began to move north in 29 AE.

Until then, the Elonian nation was south of the Crystal Sea (and did not even go into Vabbi at that point in time – again, they did not spread north into Vabbi until 29 AE, just like with the Desolation).

I honestly would not take anything the Priest of Abaddon takes without a large heaping of salt. Firstly because everything he says is his speculation or theory on the matter, but also because some of what he says contradicts facts we know. Further, the whole dialogue reads like your typical “Abaddon did nothing wrong” fan posts that push him as a good guy from beginning to end. He felt like a 100% “putting fan statements into the story” kind of thing.

It would also seem very weird for him to be captured, just to be smote in a crater-making event far away from his supposed place of capture, where his sword and armor laid for a thousand years.

Luindu.2418:

-snip-

1. We have proof that the Elder Dragons are tied to Tyria. We have proof that the gods are not tied to Tyria. That is indeed a point that excludes them using the same energy. Further, the gods did not create magic – that’s human legend which was proven false in GW2 (GWW will not mention it due to a rule GWW has of “only including GW1 info”), magic always existed, the gods merely released magic from the Bloodstone (created by the Seers) into the open world, then when King Doric pleaded for them to rescind their “gift” they put it back into the Bloodstone and divided it into five.
2. The Desolation has no mountain range. That mountain range borders the outside of the desolation and there is zero indication it was non-existent prior to the Exodus. If it did, then Orr would have been an island; however, it has always been called a peninsula. If there was no division, whether by land or water channel, they could not have called it by a different name, would they? And above all, the Crystal Sea was never part of the Unending Ocean. Otherwise, there would be no point in saying the Margonites ruled over the Crystal Sea and the Unending Ocean. That’s merely repetition unless those locations were distinctly different.
3. We do not know the exact location of the Gates of Heaven. Yes, it is far from the Gates of Torment as the Gates of Torment are in the Realm of Torment while the Gates of Heaven are in Tyria (as that is where Abaddon launched the attack). The gods locked Abaddon in his own realm because they wanted to erase all knowledge of Abaddon – doing so in his own realm was basically locking up knowledge with knowledge (see: Domain of Secrets). They never filled “Abaddon’s domain” with sand. You’re taking that out of nowhere. The Crystal Sea was not Abaddon’s domain. How many times must I say this? That’s why it doesn’t make sense to you – you’re making assumptions which are false and proven false.
4. The giant circle in the center is not a vortex. It is a representation of Tyria. See this image.

At this point, I’m just repeating myself over and over, without acknowledgment of these words. Continuing this is pointless.

EDIT: I did this mockup of how the Crystal Sea likely looked based on dialogue as well as heights of landscapes in GW1 maps for a little side project last year. Perhaps this will help visualize what I’m saying. Precise placement of shore etc. is likely off here and there but the generals should be more or less accurate. And it probably doesn’t go far south enough but it should suffice to get my point across I hope.

@Rauderi: That’s because the blooms do not open up a vendor. While circumventing the issue of a temp currency always filling the wallet, they removed the need for an NPC by making the item the vendor.

Solori.6025:

Well this makes me wonder.
The six gods and the spirits of the wild all left tyria around the time elder dragons started to wake up.
Are elder dragons capable of absorbing divine magic.
Balthazar talked about being betrayed.
Did the gods or a god lie to him about his divinity?
Why is he so hellbent on killing elder dragons?
If he could absorbe magic why doesnt he just absorb the volatile dragon energy from the dead dragons or the worlds natural ley energy, which apparently is in abundance right now?

• No, they didn’t. The Spirits never left, they’re still around Tyria. The Six Gods left over a thousand years before the Elder Dragons started waking up.
• By all indication, no. Even ignoring the Divine Torch hording mordrem away in S2, and Forgotten magic being completely immune to dragon corruption (and even able to break the hive mind of it), Primordus and his horde couldn’t even munch on Balthazar while the weakened “god” set up the machine.
• He actually doesn’t talk about being betrayed at all. He mentions being abated (aka weakened), and that he has learned there’s no honor in war – both can be taken in multiple interpretations.
• There’s no indication that Balthazar was at any point “not a god”. After all, he presumably made people who looked at him go blind too, just like the others.
• He’s less hellbent on killing dragons so much as wanting to take their magic to regain his strength – he makes this fairly clear in Heart of the Volcano, his goal is revenge against those who weakened him and he’s only going after the dragons for the same reason he went after the bloodstone: magical power.
• My guess? It’s too widespread. It would take time, and Balthazar seems highly impatient at the moment.

Solori.6025:

Side question: If elder dragons can absorb divine magic or were created using divine magic, does this mean Aurene can become an elder dragon and/or god?
Like was Glint protecting a replacement for the elder dragons because she knew when they died you would need a medium for the power they unleash on tyria?
Sorry for ressurecting a dead horse, just some questions I had from finishing the story

If they were made by divine magic, then yes Aurene could become a dragon god. However, all indication is that divine magic is opposite to the Elder Dragons – they cannot consume or corrupt it, and it can reverse some of their corruption’s effects. This is based off of the correlation between the Forgotten and the gods, assuming their magics are akin to each other, and based off of the Divine Fire (also the Foefire which is said to be from Orr during the gods’ reign indicating possible divine ties).

Aurene does definitely seem capable of becoming a new Elder Dragon, as we were told Glint was close to becoming and Tequatl seemed to have been approaching before being killed (assuming that Rox carrying its tail around means its been canonically killed at least).

Honestly, I wish they had Jadoth instead of Mallyx, but Mallyx was superior in terms of strength and post-Abaddon leadership (possibly pre-Abaddon leadership too). We don’t really know much about Mallyx, so it could actually go that Mallyx was a very important individual among the Margontes – as we also don’t know much about Margonite history behind their time as humans and their fall in with Abaddon just before the Exodus – the time between the Exodus and Nightfall is one big gap summarized by “they were imprisoned, and they broke out, leading to them taking over the realm”. But no one asked (or explained) how they broke out, how they formed their leadership, which Margonites held sway while Abaddon was alive, etc. etc. For all we know, the answers to all that could end up being “Mallyx.”

But that’s just typical forgotten gaps in lore, and typical HoT-had-little-lore.

If anything about the Renegade doesn’t make sense, it’s the name “Renegade”.

After all…

It’s kind of like forming a group celebrating Jesus and calling the group ISIS.

Ah, the problems with using generic words for group/race names… At least it leads to silly puns as well.

I had written up something length that was too long for the forum but realized that I’m just hitting my head against a brick wall at this point. So let’s try shortening things…

Re Dragon/God Domains: No matter how fancy you pull the “opposites of same domain”, we see that their powers – the gods’ powers and the dragons’ powers – are of two completely separate origins.

Re Crystal Sea/Unending Ocean: You took nearly every single quote there out of context, greatly misunderstood them, and none of them support your claim. They all, in fact, deny your claim. Despite that, except for the second to last one, they’re all fan written and hell I’m pretty sure I wrote each and every one of them. You’re literally trying to tell me what I know, and say I’m wrong about it, while using my own words.

The two are not the same – the Crystal Sea is not the same as the Clashing Seas either. Ignoring the fact that the Crystal Sea no longer exists, there was a mountain range between the two, and the Margonites also had a coastal presence (the Marga Coast being named after them). They are no more the same body of water than the Mediterranean Sea being the same thing as the Atlantic Ocean. They are, in fact, more separated from each other than the Mediterranean Sea and Atlantic Ocean.

Re Abaddon and the Realm of Torment: Again, you’re taking quotes out of context and greatly misunderstanding them. The battle wasn’t in the Crystal Sea, but not far from the shore of it. The battle focused around the Gates of Heaven. The Realm of Torment was indeed Abaddon’s territory – his realm in the Mists. He was imprisoned inside his own realm in the Mists, just like Dhuum was. The Realm of Torment was not corrupted by Abaddon – there is no “Abaddon’s corruption”. The only changes he made to the realm was turning parts of it to mirror Elona so that he could merge the two together and break out of his prison. The “corrupted souls” bit (ArenaNet overuses the term “corrupt” btw to mean a many different things – and you’ve fallen into a trap of seeing one over-used word and thinking it has one singular meaning) does not refer to any twisting like dragon corruption, but just those “touched” by Abaddon’s influence – basically, if a person learned about Abaddon’s existence, fought against his folllowers, or were one of his followers, they were put into the Realm of Torment upon death.

Re The All: The All’s structural similarities to the map of the Realm of Torment is undoubtably similar. This actually ties back to lore from Prophecies, this map of the Mists by Lord Odran – ArenaNet has a continuing trend of mapping the Mists in the form of alchemy circles of sorts. There is no direct relation to the Realm of Torment and The All.

The All is not a vortex either, I don’t get where you got that from. That cinematic the image you linked to is showing Zhaitan’s magic returning to the world of Tyria – there is no vortex it travels though. The All is the world of Tyria and six bodies of power (which are tied to, but are not, the Elder Dragons) – basically the magical version of looking at Earth from space and seeing the wind currents, magnetic sphere, etc.

Re “Suspicions”: The Mists contain everything, they are the multiverse of Guild Wars’ setting. Compare them to a continuous Big Bang and outerspace in one.

So there is absolutely nothing suspicious about the gods being from the Mists, controlling parts of the Mists, or the Realm of Torment also being from the Mists. This is in fact, anticipated.

And still fairly long.

Look, you’re clearly not understanding the things you’re reading. Take a bit longer, and please stop presenting my own words in out-of-context fractures to try to tell me that I’m wrong.

No it isn’t, but it must be hard to understand that it is ultimately idiotic to create a permanent location in the wallet and a permanent NPC for what is literally a limited time item. The first box is already going to be gone in 6 days, and the second box will undoubtably follow suit. With absolutely no indication of when they will become available again in the future.

They are like the Mordrem Blossoms from the weekend Mordrem Invasion event before HoT release – obviously intended to be used once their immediate acquisition method is gone. This becomes painfully obvious when we see there are multiple low-price options, including three 1 cog options.

So why create a wallet entry – which shows even when you have it empty – for such a thing?

I don’t think there’s any specific “previous group” but rather the idea is that many adventurers go into the Fractals and not all make it. When Fractals came out, we had Lionguard Tyrro telling about the dangers of the Fractals and there was this conversation about it:

PC: Has anyone gone through?
Tyrro: Yeah, a few idiots. Came out looking like bags of bloody meat and moaning about death chambers or something.

I recall other dialogue (cannot find it atm) talking about adventurers going in for treasures, some coming back some not.

Basically, it’s just your traditional adventurers exploring dangerous dungeons for loot and not all survive kind of thing. The five corpses (one per playable race) in Nightmare Fractal are just some of those that did not survive.

The cogs are more than just currency – they are also a vendor item.

Luindu.2418:

1. Mmm i’m not sure, is a controversial point we don’t have enought information. If i’m correct (idk) all the domains asociated is by the religion of the NPC’s and that must not accurated at all, that’s why i prefer to think about a more YinYang flow of energy between gods and dragons.
2. Yeah Narrative, that’s why i think Anet erase the option of characters options to ascend a God Form making the need of the Gift. But think about it, if we don’t know that Grenth is the son of Dwayna, his race/aspect/gender would be unknown (only looking his statue).
3. Mmm maybe i missunderstand that phrases, yeah definetely its make more sense that the gods “erase and bury” the water territory of Abaddon/DSD.

1. That still doesn’t account for the fact that the Six Gods – or [at least Dwayna, Balthazar, Melandru, and Abaddon](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Orrian_History_Scrolls#The_Six) have their powers coming from another world / beyond the Mists, a place where the Elder Dragons cannot influence [except by stealing the divine’s power to do so](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Havroun_Solvi). There’s a very clear difference in the powers, origins, and capabilities of dragons and gods, even if their numbers are equal.
2. We would know he’s male, given he’s always called such. And we knwo well enough to know him to be humanoid – we technically do not know his race, we’re told he is the son of Dwayna (race unknown) and a “mortal sculptor” – while many accept such is Malchor, a human, this is never confirmed.
3. They didn’t really “erase” Abaddon’s territory, however. The Crystal Desert’s formation was an unintended side-effect of Abaddon’s defeat – unintended by all parties, best we know. And the DSD was never once related to the Crystal Sea, which again is not part of the Unending Ocean.

Luindu.2418:

1. You said that the form a gods can create is deformed by the enviroment?
2. All the 1:1 domains and not match domains are pure theorycrafting because we don’t know how it works and i said it this is my point of view.
3. I love the idea of a good God of Secrets, based on the PC where no one knows his true form or his gender.
4. Yeah, my mistake there, because i’m more focused on the fact that if abaddon’s make the Crystal Sea a Desert (as i said in my post) after he was defeated by gods? Sounds very strange that the vortex to the Torment Realm was in the Desolation and before that fight the desolation was the Crystal Sea. All the Gods go through a vortex in the sea to fight Abaddon?
   “…he was eventually struck down at the Mouth of Torment, in a blow that turned the Crystal Sea into a desert.” + "Crystal Sea was raised so that all water was emptied into the ocean, creating the Crystal Desert and the Desolation as they are today known. " = Vortex to realm of torment was in the Depths of the Unending Ocean.
   The fact that the DSD awoke date was unknown, make me suspicious, but the relation between Abaddon and DSD seems very accurated.

1. Not quite sure what you’re getting at there. What I said is that his body was destroyed, by all indication. His human body was pulverized. So he had to make a new body, and it reflected the materials he made it from – the Realm of Torment.
2. We have a fairly decent idea of how it works, however. And even then, how would you explain the fact we know the gods and their power is 100% not related, at all, to Tyria while the Elder Dragons’ power is 100% related and bound to Tyria?
3. But that wouldn’t work from a narrative standpoint. Especially in an MMO. Not only could you never name or genderize the god, who would be a massive figure, especially in Elona and upcoming PoF, but you could never have a statue of the god either, could never detailed its past (because of multiple origins), despite the fact it is not a secret, but known to all Tyrians.
4. Abaddon didn’t make the desert. The five gods did, when they defeated Abaddon and destroyed his body. Basically, when they defeated him, his impact made a huge ass crater that shifted the sea levels, raising the ground of what was the Crystal Sea to above sea level, draining it out. He wasn’t defeated in the Crystal Sea, but along its shoreline (which is what the Desolation was at the time, a verdant coastline). The Vortext was created during Nightfall, in GW1 – it did not exist during the war between gods. The DSD did not really wake up at an unknown date – we know from Season 2 that it woke up between Primordus and Jormag. That gives us a 50 year timespan, give or take. Just like Kralkatorrik had a delayed awakening thus woke up near Mordremoth’s time, Primordus had a delayed awakening and thus woke up near the DSD’s time.

Ashantara.8731:

From what I have heard, the actual implementation of LWS1 was anything but fun.

The content was fun, though people did complain about bugs that showed up in content after Flame and Frost (when Anet ramped things up), and there were major server issues in the first Halloween and The Lost Shores (due to ArenaNet not predicting the stress load properly) but those issues got fixed by the time Flame and Frost ended.

The only thing that wasn’t fun in Season 1 was the stress of “having to complete all the achievements ASAP” because the content was temporary. Had Season 1 content been permanent with the 30-some instances in the story journal rather than tied to achievements (or hell, tied to achievements but achievements not going bye-bye by the end of the month) then Season 1 would have been near perfect.

The temporary nature was the worst part of it from the get go. The content was good – even if buggy on the first week of release (the bugs were usually fixed before the following Tuesday) – and the only people who didn’t enjoy it were those who loved the story and lore more, but this was only as of Clockwork Chaos as Scarlet Briar was a Mary Sue character that was literally a British Harley Quinn in acting (Tara Strong – Scarlet’s voice actor – even said her direction was to do a British Harley Quinn).

Personally, I have – and had – complaints of the story, while I loved the content. But I feel that ignoring it does more harm than good. And the recap we have is inadequate at best. I would rather see Season 4 delayed than continue to lack Season 1. With how rushed Season 2, HoT, and Season 3 have felt, maybe the writers need time to brainstorm the next plot after all.

I could see part of the deal to let Rytlock go was him to train a squad of revenants, under the Legions’ belief that such magic could end the Foefire faster, and they chose to channel Kalla Scorchrazor since that’s a charr figure.

Rytlock himself seems to only channel Glint based on animations. Shiro, Mallyx, Ventari, and Jalis all comes from human, sylvari, and possibly norn relations and could be considered to be a “PC-only legend” in lore.

Luindu.2418:

1. A big human head with 6 eyes and a insectoid mouth, the statues you can see clearly a human mouth and clearly the mask hidding his eyes as opossite to Nightfall form. -snip rest-
2. I think is obvious that a good domain never match with a dragon, that’s why i talk about opposites fighting for the energies of the world and how they use it.
3. Is at least curious that gods blessed with a special gift “of a choice” to kormir (“And to you, kormir, a most special gift”) and she remember that gift just when is going to absorbs Abaddon… Why that choice is need to be a bless/gift? If ins’t needed any Gw1 player become the god of truth.
4. One of the ele human water phrases: "Feel Grenth’s icy embrace! ", I never see a reference of the kormyr-water. A human can pray to any god without reference to his class.

1. Again, Abaddon’s body was destroyed when he was defeated in Year 0. He created a new body out of the Realm of Torment which has very fleshy and insectoid landscapes
2. Then that’s not a 1:1 shared domain. If the “good” and “bad” do not match, then they do not match. It’s that simple.
3. Obviously the GW1 PC couldn’t from a storytelling/mechanical standpoint (can you imagine having “the god who’s name and gender is never specified”?). But again, we see no special effects, no magic tied to these blessings. They are but words, words said by avatars – not gods.
   So it is impossible to know whether that “special gift” was anything more than mental motivation for Kormir to do the deed. And even if it was more, nothing says it is necessary, nor did Kormir become more than mortal through that blessing.
4. I never said Kormir was tied to water. I said Lyssa is.
   And yes, a human can pray to any god. That’s why I said patron god. As in the god’s blessings are most effective to that profession. This was most easily seen in GW1, through avatar blessings with skills such as Necromancer of Grenth or Disciple of Ice

Luindu.2418:

1. I can’t find any info about DSD awakening place. But i think awoke was on https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Crystal_Sea
2. Kraits (i understand from the unending ocean) and jormag in north - Observe the difference between UO and “unnamed seas to the north”.
3. I point the Crystal Sea because was part of the unending ocean (as i understand the UO on previous point) and where the Margonita (humans) lived and was casual that Abaddon’s prission was that sea before Gods beat him. “and he was eventually struck down at the Mouth of Torment, Abaddon was incensed and went to war with the others, and he was eventually struck down at the Mouth of Torment, in a blow that turned the Crystal Sea into a desert.”
4. Really? Why can Balthazar fight for stole the dragon power then? (even we see in the volcano that “<Character name>: He’s here, but…not here. If that makes sense. Above the machine. In the channel of magic.”

I’m sorry, but you SERIOUSLY need to do your research better. Or at least put two and two together, because you’re now contradicting your own points in the same very post.

• The Crystal Sea doesn’t exist anymore. It’s a desert now. As you so quoted yourself.
• The oldest GW2 lore we got tells us that the DSD woke up “in the deepest waters of the sea.” Not deepest sands.
• We know that the Southern Quaggans, the krait, and the karka were all pushed out by the DSD – either by NPCs such as Bullablopp"":https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bullablopp or by dev comments. We also know that the largos, similarly from the southern seas, are currently fighting the DSD’s minions.
• The Crystal Sea was not part of the Unending Ocean as it was an inland sea. The Unending Ocean is, as you can tell by its name, an ocean. Inland seas are never part of oceans.
• Uh, Balthazar could steal the dragon’s power because he was inserting himself into the flow of magic that the machine was sapping from the Elder Dragons – as we saw in Bloodstone Fen, he can absorb magic because of his godly (or formerly godly) nature. There is no battle of wills in siphoning magic, otherwise necromancers would be battling wills every time they drain life force.

Luindu.2418:

TL:DR: It’s obvius that we can’t change our opinions. I explained my theory and the only things where it can fail is info that we’re not sure if its right or not, the future tells us

And it also seems to be obvious that you cannot accept that parts of your theory are established on false information or the intentional ignoring of true information.

In fact, the further into discussion we go, the more you contradict canon lore with your theorycrafting.

And I can tell you now: if your theories are already debunked ten times over, they won’t ever become true.

It’s also worth noting that professions in lore are not restricted by armor class or weapons. This is purely mechanical for balance reasons. So just saying “she has heavy armor therefore cannot wield a shortbow” is a false argument, and just because her statue has greatsword doesn’t mean that’s the only weapon she used.

Either way, as Aaron pointed out, the elite specialization’s weapon doesn’t necessarily have to be directly associated with the legendary figure itself – it just needs to be a reflection of the figure’s capabilities.

And along with revenants needing another ranged weapon, there’s a massive underuse of shortbows among professions (prior to this, only thieves and rangers used shortbow – longbow was used by rangers, warriors, and dragon hunters already putting shortbow behind by one)

Fear Not This Night isn’t a sylvari theme, it’s a “fighting Zhaitan” theme. Fear and darkness – two concepts that are brought up a lot in the song, as well as being across a sea iirc – is strongly played throughout the Zhaitan arc.

It wouldn’t have had any place other than during the Zhaitan arc. Which is why it was never used in Season 1, Season 2, or Heart of Thorns despite the off-and-on sylvari focus.

That said, I would love for more songs akin to Fear Not This Night, songs to play upon completion of the climax of a plot when we begin to wind things down. If we’re lucky, we’ll get an official recording for the Zephyrite song to be played with PoF.

As for the game “never returning to sylvari focus” – they did with episode 6, it just played second fiddle to the main plot (as it should). We’ve had a sylvari focus since the release of the game, even though Orr should have had a greater human focus it played too greatly to sylvari and asura (and then to charr then norn and human equally last); it is time to give the other races the spotlight (especially norn and asura, imo, as they have the least amount of historical lore to them now).

And it would make very little sense for the sylvari to have a major focus in PoF. Elona, Balthazar, Joko, and Kralkatorrik – none of them have any relation to sylvari. At best, we’ll have our usual Canach and maybe Caithe encounters (Caithe depending on Aurene’s involvement).

As for the generations – the Secondborn were only born for about a year, beginning two years after the Firstborn were (Firstborn were born in 1302 AE; Secondborn were born in 1304/1305). After that, they stopped counting generations, as Rognik said, but it wasn’t that the Pale Tree “continuously produced sylvari” since, it’s just that there weren’t year-long gaps between ‘generations’ anymore, eventually coming to the point of continuous production. If they kept counting generations, the PCs probably have been Seventhborn or something. The PC is NOT a Secondborn. When we first met Canach in Season 1, sylvari PCs made a note about him being Secondborn and thus more famous than them in sylvari society. There were only about 100 (or less) Secondborn, based on the flashbacks in Season 2 – and many died early on.

That said, the Pale Tree did stop making newborn sylvari upon the Shadow of the Dragon’s attack, and only began again after Caladbolg’s restoration. So one may classify this group as “Forthborn” if they really wanted to – with “Thirdborn” being everyone after the Secondborn until the Shadow of the Dragon’s attack (including the PC). It would be interesting to hear if there was any effect due to Mordremoth’s rise and attack, all the same. I doubt higher amount of magic would affect much since Zhaitan’s death also raised magic and didn’t seem to do anything of note to newborn sylvari.

That’s just generic asura writing seen on almost any asura lab. IIRC, the text just talks about the asura’s view of Eternal Alchemy.

As of Season 2, the game/story/writers takes into belief that you have “done all the story so far”.

This includes dungeons, and in this case Arah explorable where we can see Ogden Stonehealer directly. This is likely what the interruption was going to refer to – “…we met in Arah/Orr during the campaign against Zhaitan”.

Ogden is also a very famous individual, known to many like how we ourselves know about Neil DeGrasse Tyson, and is also met by every norn PC in the personal story.

Luindu.2418:

1. [url=https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Margonite] "n 175 BE, they ruled over the Unending Ocean and they began to create settlements on the coastlines north and west of Elona. "
2. and why are you sure of the DSD awoke? in wiki is unknown.
3. “The only known shape of the deep sea dragon’s corruption comes from The Movement of the World, claiming that it twists water into tentacled horrors”
   Margonites, Water and Tentacles, three coincidences with Abaddon ;D
4. I don’t thinks is a “domain”, is only two wills fighting each other to take control.

1. As we see with the world map provided in gw2 (fan recreation in English ) which was unknown in GW1, the Unending Ocean is basically the entire world. We know that the Margonites didn’t exist all over the world – their primary domain was between Tyria and Cantha, which is the Clashing Seas (indeed within the Unending Ocean). Before that world map came out, we throught the Clashing Seas and Unending Ocean were one and the same, since lore only spoke of the Unending Ocean as the ocean between Tyria/Elona and Cantha.
2. I am so sure because I did my research using existing lore – the TL;DR of it is this: The quaggans, krait, and karka pushed out by the DSD only exist around the Sea of Sorrows indicating southern presence – if they were southeast, however, they’d have landed on Elona first, thus indicating southwest of Tyria (west of Battle Isles); further, the waters between Cantha and Elona are shallow, and we know the DSD woke up in the “deepest depths” of the seas so it isn’t like the exiled races did a fishhook shaped migration along the Elonian coastline. Thus the only direction the DSD could be is southwest of TYria, and the most likely direction being, incidentally, where the sea dragon icon is in the Durmand Priory world map linked above.
3. There is no relation between Margonites and the DSD. The tentacles relation is probably as profoundly connected as Abaddon’s tend of six eyes and the Jade Constructs having six eyes (read: nolore relation), or even the Shadow Army using White Mantle models uniquely (read: no lore relation). The former is because some of ArenaNet has a thing for eyes (those two aren’t even the only ones for multiple rows of eyes – Kekai Kotaki did a lot of such art, and we see similar things in the Titans, for example); the latter is because of reusing art assets to make things easier.
4. Then how could the wills even begin to clash, without any mindscape or telepathic connection? The machine never touched either – it was merely transferring magical power.

Luindu.2418:

1. And that’s what my theory point, we’re wrong about balthazar’s real plans.
2. In nightfall, Abaddon seems soo human, a giant floating head with a pair of floating hands, its obvious that they can change his shape to their convenience.
3. Not the same thing, but we know that dragons and Gods absorbs the same magic, the theory is that 1 vs 1 as spheres of domain, but if one God of dragon have all, they break the equilibrium, think about it like a Yin Yang.
4. A mortal with a gift of gods can let him absorb part of Abaddon, if that gift isn’t important why is Kormir the only one who can absorbs Abaddon? why not our characters? or someone like Jurah, the master of secrets?
5. When looses Grenth the domain of water before the Abaddon’s defeat? Never, and even when abaddon is alive, Grenth has the ice domain. Water and Ice are differents.
6. Schrodinger Past…

1. He makes his plans pretty obvious from the get go though.
2. In lore, Abaddon’s body was destroyed during the war just before the Exodus. In nightfall, you can go to the point where he was defeated (Mouth of Torment) and see his mask, glove, and sword – the former two are also visible on Abaddon’s statue. The body you linked to is him creating a new one out of the Realm of Torment itself.
   • The Gate of Pain is one of the great locks erected by the five gods to imprison Abaddon. Located on the first layer of the Realm of Torment, the lock was sundered when Varesh completed her convocation with Abaddon, allowing the fallen lord to coalesce enough of his godform to begin extruding parts of his tormented realm into the real world. Past the gate lies a river of tormented souls kitten ed to live in Abaddon’s pain forever.
   • The Gate of Anguish is one of the great locks erected by the five gods to imprison Abaddon. Located on the first layer of the Realm of Torment, the lock was sundered when Varesh performed her unholy ceremony at the Temple of Lyssa in Vabbi, allowing the fallen lord to coalesce part of his godform and gain much greater control over his prison. Past the gate lies a whirpool of darkness.
3. Like I said before, 1 on 1 does not work. Whether you’re relating the gods or just the domains. There is not enough unknown dragon domains to match the known god domains. And even then, the secondary god domains change too much – they even have tertiary domains in GW2 based on the biography. Which supports the notion that all but the primary domain are just “flavor” and not actually domains.
4. Nothing ever says that only Kormir could have absorbed Abaddon. You’re making an assumption based on the fact that only one of multiple probabilities occurred.
5. When Abaddon was imprisoned, Grenth was the patron god of water magic for Elementalists. When Kormir rose to godhood, Elementalists looked to Lyssa as patron to water magic. That’s what I was referring to.
6. “Schrodinger Past” is something that doesn’t exist. We know they are that pre-fall Abaddon and post-fall Abaddon are the same being – there is no mystery about it like you’re acting there is to be.

Luindu.2418:

Imho as opposite concepts or “corrupt” concepts:

• Grenth (Death/Rest) – Zhaitan (Undead)
• Kormir (Thruth) – Abaddon/DSD (Secrets)
• Balthazar (War with honor) – Primordus (War as destruction, scorched earth tactics)
• Lyssa (Reflection) – Kralkatorrik (Twisted Reflection)
• Melandru (Nature) – Mordremoth (Corrupted Nature)
  *Dwayna (Warmth of life, like “Take care of people”) – Jormag (“cold life”)
  I’m ok with there are two points, Jormag and Kralkatorrik, that maybe i’m not using the correct words, but i hope you understand what i’m thinking xD

• Primordus is not war, just fire. The only relation between Balthazar and Primordus is fire. Theory puts Primordus’ second domain to, in fact, be Earth.
• Lyssa is not reflection – this is her take on water, but her primary domain(s) is/are Beauty and/or Illusion. Kralkatorrik has nothing in relation to either, just as Lyssa has nothing in relation to crystal.
• Jormag has nothing to do with life.
• As Kormir took Abaddon’s power, if you count Abaddon on the godside you must then ignore Kormir. Thus it would be 5v6(or7), ultimately leading your own foundation for the theory to ruin your theory.

Here are the primary, secondary, and tertiary (in order) domains of the gods and fallen gods:

• Abaddon = Knowledge, Water, N/A
• Balthazar = War, Fire, Challenge
• Dhuum = Death, Darkness, N/A
• Dwayna = Life, Air, Healing
• Grenth = Death, Ice, Darkness
• Lyssa = Beauty, Illusion, Water
• Melandru = Nature, Earth, Growth
• Kormir = Knowledge, Order, Spirit

The gods are associated with a few more things too – like Grenth to Sorrow, Destruction, and Judgement, or Kormir to Justice, or Dhuum to fire – thus furthering the idea that secondary and tertiary are just flavor and only the first holds any sway on their actual domains.

Here are the primary and secondary domains of the dragons, as we know and can suspect:

• Primordus = Fire (and Earth?)
• Jormag = Ice (and Soul?)
• Mordremoth = Plant and Mind
• Zhaitan = Death and Shadow
• Kralkatorrik = Crystal (and Air/Sky?)
• DSD = Unknown and Unknown

As you can see, the primary domains for each dragon is largely elemental – the main exception being Zhaitan (though one could argue death to be an element) – while the gods’ main domains are more metaphysical or existentialist. This does lead the argument of the DSD’s primary domain being water, mind you, but it remains too little information to properly guess this.

I would agree that by now it’s too late to make Caladbolg a legendary. It not only has a new greatsword look, but it can be made into other weapons too. And that’s the major crux of the issue. It would be weird to turn an ascended scepter back into a greatsword just to make it legendary.

The reforging quest would have been a perfect chance to reforge into a precursor or something but it’s said and done.

That’s not saying the Dream contains all memories, or that every sylvari learns of all memories (or even any memory technically), like OP thought (and now understands).

The reason why charr were put into a situation of a cease fire with humans was because ArenaNet wanted above all to avoid open world pvp, they did not want to create another “alliance versus horde” game set up. Probably why they put in lore the Kurzicks and Luxons getting wholly assimilated by the Canthan Empire too.

Personally, I’d like to avoid such too. I’m no fan of it, not for any particular reason other than disliking it and finding it annoying when I am forced into a duel for xyz reasons. I feel it works for some games, but GW2 is not one of those games. And I’d say the same for mounts (even with all the praise mounts got from the bwe last week, I still feel they remain an unnecessary and forced upon addition).

It isn’t a “bad thing”, but for GW2, it isn’t the “right thing” either, IMO. Adding open world pvp would just be another way to bring GW2 one step closer to conforming to your average MMO or WoW clone. GW2 is already brought too close as it is, I’d argue.

Jade Construct was always the toughest boss in that map. I think the lower levels is just because of folks getting what they wanted out of the map by now (plus the beta weekend events drawing folks away).

As for the extra swings from gathering tools – that was tied to the WvW rewards stuff which got removed when they added the pip reward system. It was never tied to gathering boosts of any sort (those boosts give extra drops in the same swing, not extra swings).

Luindu.2418:

• Zhaitan in a “undead island” or a “dead island who rise again”
• Mordremoth in a Jungle
• Primordus in a Volcano
• Jormag presumably on the Shiverpeak mountains like norns said
• Kralkatorrik “Crystal” in a desert… "types of glass are “silicate glasses” based on the chemical compound silica (silicon dioxide, or quartz), the primary constituent of sand". Crystal Dragon sounds better than Glass Dragon.
  By coincidence DSD wakes on the https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unending_Ocean a ocean who was ruled by Margonites…until they “corrupt” (loose his humanity)

Zhaitan waking in an “undead land” (Orr isn’t an island but a peninsula) is pure coincidence (or rather, writer design but not lore correlation). Primordus did not wake up in a volcano, he moved to the Ring of Fire and created Draconis Mons’ volcano (or at least “rose it up”) – and we all know that the dragons create their first domain in their corruption. Kralkatorrik did not wake up to the desert, he woke up in the Blood Legion Homelands, he went to the desert only because he went to kill Glint for betraying him.

Margonites didn’t rule the whole Unending Ocean – they ruled the Clashing Seas, part of the Unending Ocean between Tyria and Cantha. The DSD, given what lore we have, woke up far west of the Clashing Seas (southwest of Tyria) – far away from any known human settlements (though potentially close to the Sunrise Crest area on the map).

And to go back to “we all know that the dragons create their first domain in their corruption” – the DSD’s corruption takes the form of tentacled monsters. This would imply that the DSD’s first domain is thus either “Flesh” or “Tentacles”, as best we can tell. Not water, which is what the DSD corrupts from. Just as Kralkatorrik turns flesh and soil to crystal, or Jormag turns the same to ice, or Zhaitan turns living flesh and plants to rotten flesh and plants and nutritious soil to crumbling soil.

Luindu.2418:

I think this was a “mind’s duel” between Balthazar and Primordus, like we play with Mordremoth. I think we’re talking with Primordus… (but well, that’s my theory)

Then why does Balthazar’s personality not once change from earlier encounters?

Also, Primordus has no domain of mind like Mordremoth – even the “stolen” domains were only death and plant, not shadow and mind.

Luindu.2418:

My bad explanation, i talk about “2 betrayals”:
First, one that balthazar talks, hidden information about the taimi’s machine and our plans to faces Primordus vs Jormag (the wrong way, as shows taimi’s simluation). And the second and “real” was we break the machine and the balthazar boost he needs to stop the dragons (and as I theorice making Primordus stole his powers).

Breaking the machine was not a betrayal. Balthazar didn’t “need power to stop the dragons”. He wanted to stop the dragons so he could gain power. There is a massive difference.

Luindu.2418:

The references of Arachnia talks about a “spider god” or “gods of insectoids beings”
https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Arachnia
And if we don’t know Gods past why your’re right saying he’s human and i’m wrong saying Abaddon was a dragon? (until we know more, this was a Schrodinger’s Past ^^, but i choose dragon past because imho looks like more lore friendly).

Because all depictions of Abaddon pre-fall was of a human. Malchor laid eyes on what all six gods of the time looked like, which includes Abaddon.

We don’t know all of the gods’ pasts, but we do know enough to know that they’re humanoids and that they and/or their power are of non-Tyrian origin. We know enough to know that the Six Gods and the Six Elder Dragons are not the same thing. In either domain or actual body.

Luindu.2418:

I make emphasis in 3 sentences:

• <Party leader>: “It’s running wild! It will destroy everything!” -> killing gods or dragons destroy the world just like Taimi’s simulation shows.
• Kormir: “Yes I can! I can contain the power. This is the gift the avatars gave me!” and as i said before “Kormir, using the gift the gods gave her in the Temple of the Six Gods, runs into and absorbs it” from https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Kormir -> I think this is clear about the use of the gift of the gods allow kormir to absorb it.

• Technically they are different. The dragons’ death leading to the world’s death is due to too much magic building up without a container thus going wild, resulting in places like Thaumanova, Bloodstone Fen, etc. The gods’ death leads to their own power blowing up, devastating not only the dimension it is in, but neighboring dimensions as well (it’s said that Abaddon’s magic blowing up could have destroyed Tyria, despite his death being in the heart of the Realm of Torment). There’s a fairly big difference – the death of one dragon is barely going to effect the world, as we saw ourselves. If they were the same, then Tyria would have been destroyed at the end of the personal story.
• The gift is a bit dubious to know its exact nature. While it is possible that your interpretation is right, another just as easily acceptable interpretation is that the blessing was nothing more than words that acknowledge the deed – like a king’s blessing to a knight to perform a duty. Alternatively, it is believed the blessing is what kept Abaddon from instantly killing us or us going blind looking at Abaddon despite him being a full-fledged god still. Ultimately, it’s hard to say. But either way: Kormir was a mortal, blessing or not. That blessing did not make her more than mortal.

Luindu.2418:

Technically that’s means that Kormyr must be the God of Water too, but water goes for Lyssa, that’s why I said that gift of gods was such important and makes possible the Kormir’s rise and the secret plans of the 5 Gods to preserve the world balance.
“she was only openly tied to water after the death of Abaddon in 1075 AE” from https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lyssa

And that’s the thing about the gods’ domains. Only the first one actually sticks from transition to transition. Water goes from Abaddon, gets covered by Grenth’s ice while Big A is imprisoned, and goes to Lyssa afterward.

And Dhuum was never once associated with ice. That was 100% Grenth’s addition to the pantheon.

Further, the norn refer to the gods as “Spirits of Action” and call them by their first domain – War, Death, Life, Nature, Knowledge (sadly we do not know how they call Lyssa) – because “names are a human thing”.

Luindu.2418:

Just like Zhaitan’s and Grenth “death” or as Mordremoth and Melandru “Nature”. That’s why I think this about Abaddon becouse his “fall” (likes Balthazar’s Fall) he represent the opposite of the “good domains” the gods have, maybe because Abaddon as God of Wisdom was the old god that he depososed (that make sense as Abaddon’s Dragon real name begins with “S” as the DSD)

No, Abaddon the god of wisdom and Abaddon the god of secrets are 100% the same being.

And the attempt to relate the gods and dragons’ domains 1:1 have been attempted and horribly failed. Sure you can work death, fire, and nature… Except:

• Mordremoth is called life in Episode 6; thus conflicting between Dwayna and Melandru. Its second domain, mind, links to neither.
• Dhuum never had ice, Grenth brought it into the pantheon (as mentioned). This related Jormag and Zhaitan to Grenth alone.
• Dwayna, if not tied to Mordremoth’s “Life”, has no dragon.
• Kralkatorrik, being of Crystal, has no god. Its second domain is suspected to be Air, relating it to Dwayna’s second, but there still lacks a “Crystal God”.
• Lyssa, being of “Beauty” and “Illusion” has no dragon, except arguably Mordremoth’s “Mind”.
• There is no War Dragon. There is no Knowledge Dragon (even if the DSD is unknown to players, that does not make it the “dragon of secrets”). Nor no “Order” Dragon (Kormir’s second adopted domain, brought into the pantheon with her rise).

Once you go past the three obvious, it becomes impossible to relate them. And this has been brought up so many times ArenaNet made a joke about how the arguments always fall apart.

Luindu.2418:

About the betrayal, I think he was talking about the secret of the taimi’s machine and when he knows try to stop us because thinks we are “enemies of the world” as same as we think he was our enemy. As a point, we don’t know that the machine could cause that caos before Balthy stole it.

You said “But then we betrayed him breaking Taimi’s Machine while he was fighting with Primordus”

That’s in the volcano, not Rata Novus. I was saying that any betrayal on the PC’s part was in Rata Novus – with the mirrors – just before he stole the machine. This is not when we destroyed it while he was fighting Primordus.

Luindu.2418:

But the interesting part was about Abaddon: “According to the Margonite Apostate, Abaddon gained his power from an older, deposed god.” That seems like he’s something that can stole gods powers.

You’re misinterpreting it. Here is the original dialogue.

All this says is that, just as Grenth and Kormir were once not-gods who usurped a god, Abaddon was also a mortal that usurped a god (believed to be Arachnia by name, but unconfirmed). That there has been a line of successors in godhood – at least three gods of knowledge have existed, one replacing the other.

It is also implied that Lyssa and Balthazar had similarly usurped a former god to become god themselves, though this is speculative still.

Luindu.2418:

As games show us, if i’m not forgotting anything, only gods or dragons can fight for domain spheres of power:

• Kormyr absorbs abaddon with 5 Gods help (….using the gift the gods gave her in the Temple of the Six Gods, runs into and absorbs it).
• Balthazar as we saw in Ep6
• Menzies, Half-brother of balthazar = Half-god, try it to stole it too.
• Grenth as a Half-god with help of human servants

Technically as shown by Kormir, mortals can obtain a god’s domain/sphere of power. Also, there is no confirmation of Menzies being a half-god. He is Balthazar’s half-brother for sure, but were any of the three parents even divine? Unknown.

Luindu.2418:

What can be Abaddon? if only a Dragon or a God/Half-god can stole other Gods power. I’m more declined to think about he’s a Dragon, because by coincidence Abaddon was the god of water and secrets. And also associated with Depths, Knowledge and Magic.
Water go for Lyssa but where are the depth? and the secrets?
The thruth of kormyr was the opposite of secrets, and the opposite of a Gods was? Dragons. And another coincidence is the only Dragon we don’t know his name was the Deep/Water Dragon (the 2 domains associated with Abaddon) Only the “S” ¿What if the “S” was a reference of the Abbadon’s real name? “Secrets inside secrets” ;D

Again, we know mortals can take on a god’s power. Kormir proves this. We see her taking in Abaddon’s power in GW1 – you can look it up on youtube without a doubt. Abaddon is likely the same, a mortal who usurped a god.

About “secrets and truth being opposites thus not the same” – Abaddon was the god of knowledge, technically, same as Kormir. Before his fall he was referred to as god of wisdom, and after his fall referred to as god of secrets – perhaps because he was a secret himself. Kormir herself, in GW1, is referred to as goddess of truth, indeed, but also of knowledge and secrets. To quote one case: All hail Kormir, Goddess of Secrets!

Abaddon’s take on water was the depths of the sea, whereas Lyssa’s take on water is its reflective surface. It’s just two interpretations of the same thing – like wisdom, secrets, and truth being three interpretations of the same thing (knowledge).

Also, the Deep Sea Dragon is NOT necessarily “the Water Dragon.” There may not be a water dragon. We do not know the Deep Sea Dragon’s domains. It might be water, but is just as easily might not be. We call it the Deep Sea Dragon for the same reason Kralkatorrik is the “desert dragon” or Zhaitan the “Orrian dragon”. Because the deep sea is where it is located, not what it domains over. We do not know either of the DSD’s domains. So for all we know, he could be the Elder Dragon of Love and Hope, or of Flesh and Earth or something.

Luindu.2418:

About Balthazar’s personality, in Gw1 and if you search for the tales of the gods in Siren’s landing you can see Balthazar as a God that shows respet for the honor in the battle. I think “scorched earth” tactic from PoF sounds more like a Primordus tactic.

To quote back to Episode 5, when Primordus was stunned:

Balthazar: I’ve learned there is no honor in war. But if you crave the glory of the fray…

Basically, it’s been explained already that Balthazar has 1) been weakened, and 2) lost belief in his own ideals.

This is why his personality has changed. Something happened to him in the past 250 years – before he showed up in GW2 – which changed things. His personality has not changed between Episode 1 and Episode 5 of Season 3.

Luindu.2418:

Another thing, if i’m correct Abaddon (Gw1) and Balthazar (Gw2 PoF) are the same story that would explain why this two try to fight with the other Gods…

They are the same story… but not in the way you’re taking it. Both are fallen gods who use an army of humans (Kournan military / Mercenaries) and demonic former-humans (Margonites / Forged) to lay assault on Elona and the Crystal Desert in hopes of regaining power (Break out of prison / Absorb Kralkatorrik’s power) so that they can obtain their goals of revenge and become the “one true god”.

Aden Yeshua.2148:

It is now more accurate to say (barring the end doesn’t change this) that the Pale Tree itself is of a hive mind, with the ability shown to feel other Silvari, locate them with pinpoint accuracy, able to feel the death, or if that Silvari is corrupted or in danger – at all times.

This is definitely false. And we know it for two reasons.

Firstly, the Pale Tree (and any sylvari alive at the time) did not know where or how Riannoc died. Just that he did. If she was able to locate sylvari with pinpoint accuracy, then she would have known where Riannoc died and if she had a true hive mind, with access to all sylvari memories either in retrospect or at the moment, then she would have known how Riannoc died as well.

Secondly, there is Scarlet Briar’s death:

Sylvari PC: I come with withering news, I’m afraid.

Pale Tree: I’ve already heard. Scarlet is dead. I am proud that you’re kind enough to come inform me yourself.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Avatar_of_the_Tree

If she could sense the death of every sylvari, then she would not have “heard” of Scarlet’s death, she would have FELT Scarlet’s death. While the Pale Tree clearly feels the death of some sylvari – as shown with Riannoc and Wynne (both Firstborn who died when sylvari numbered less than a hundred, so this may be a heavy influence on how she felt their deaths), as shown with Scarlet Briar (a Secondborn) she does not feel the death of every sylvari.

Aden Yeshua.2148:

As with my card analogy she (the nightmare court to) can control what goes into that well. Which often (not always) produces like minded Silvari.

The Nightmare Court cannot control what goes into the well – and neither can the Pale Tree.

If the Pale Tree could control what goes into the well, then she would ensure nothing that would spread the Nightmare can go in. The Nightmare Court are but simple sylvari, no more greater than any other, and can only put dark memories and emotions into the Dream by inciting powerful emotions (usually but not always in torture) – in other words, exploiting the same methods that normal memories and emotions go into the Dream.

Aden Yeshua.2148:

There is a bit of dialog (quite a bit) that does support that the teachings of the tablet continue long after birth. There is also quite a bit of evidence that the Silvari are influenced (however minor) and however optional, even from birth.

After awakening (technically not “birth”)? Yes. No one denied that the teachings of the tablet hold sway after awakening. Rather, it’s “before awakening” that’s more questionable. While we do see that it can influence some (as proven by the tutorial instance, us seeing a version of Ventari in the dream preaching), most sylvari would likely be unaware of the teachings until awakening – this is part of the purpose of the mentors we can see throughout the Grove, to teach the newly awakened the teachings of Ventari – and anything else of importance that they did not learn in the Dream.

Aden Yeshua.2148:

When we do see her lose composure (death of the first) or Silvari suffering it is “felt” throughout the Silvari.

Nothing indicates that the Pale Tree lost her composure in any of these cases.

Aden Yeshua.2148:

This is often mentioned also, the Pale Tree seems to know where every Silvari is at all times. This casual and often used statement of “the Pale Tree told me” is a bit more evidence that the Tree is in constant contact with the Silvari.

I think you’re taking this a bit too far. The Pale Tree would likely know where we planned to go because we sent a message. There’s nothing in any of these lines that implies a mental communication. After all, it never once happens to us, and there are many cases where a mental communication from the Pale Tree would have been fortuitous. Even in just the sylvari storyline.

Aden Yeshua.2148:

This is a very very important interaction. Not only can a Silvari’s memories be erased, but something else can be put in its place. Trahearne reassures the character that what will be replaced will only be the truth because that is its nature. Now that’s obviously not the Nightmare courts nature…

Again, I think you’re taking the context a bit too greatly.

Amnesia is common across all species, and would be known by sylvari at this point. Because the PC, Caithe, and Trahearne believed Malcyk was just your standard sylvari from the Pale Tree, his lack of knowing it made them believe he lost his memories, and if the Nightmare Court were after him Trahearne came to the conclusion that they somehow caused his memory loss. The Pale Tree would be able to aid Malyck in this theoretical situation because she has access to the Dream, and in turn to Malyck’s memories.

In other words, it was a false conclusion. This is something that is relatively frequent in GW2 – perspectives from NPCs that turn out wrong. Its ArenaNet’s way of adding believability to the world, which most MMOs tend to lack unless it’s a critical plot twist.

This line is not proof – or even support – for the notion that sylvari can control the minds of other sylvari as you seem to conclude.

Aden Yeshua.2148:

Can and does the Silvari passdown knowledge gained by other Silvari at, least on a basic level? (water is wet, fire burns) yes. In the Silvari short time awakened do we see a civilization that rivals the others? Yes, very much so.

Technically unknown, and technically no.

On the first – the critical thing is that almost all newly awakened sylvari undergo the tutelage of mentors in the Grove, where they learn the critical things. This may include the “basic level of knowledge” like “water is wet, fire burns”, just as it clearly includes (as we can see from ambient dialogue in the Grove), the teachings of Ventari and their meaning.

On the second: While the sylvari have certainly grown great in numbers, what little technological advances they have largely come from other races (even Scarlet, as ingenious as she was made out to be, only retrofitted other people’s technology – be it charr, asura, norn, hylek, or human). The settlements sylvari have are both outshined and outnumbered not only by human and charr, but even by norn and asura who had suffered a wipe of their territories in the past 200 years. So I would say their civilization does not rival the others – they’re clearly in 5th place among the five races.

Further, their advancement can be – and probably is – more likely attributed to the fact they trade with those civilizations that have long been far above them rather than the shared knowledge of the Dream. In other words, they were elevated partially by the humans and asura, norn and charr – likely in that order of most to least.

If these things are so indisputable, mind quoting your sources for why?

There’s nothing I’ve ever seen to indicate the Pale Tree controls the Dream. If she could, then how could Mordremoth utilize the Dream to turn sylvari into Mordrem Guard?

The Elder Dragon can implant thoughts in its creations—thoughts they may even believe to be their own—and only a combination of immense willpower and the protection of the Pale Tree can prevent Mordremoth from taking control. Sylvari receive calls to action in the form of the Wyld Hunt—or the Dark Hunt, for Nightmare Courtiers—and these compulsions act as an access point for Mordremoth’s influence.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/points-of-interest-episode-18-summary/

The only thing I saw you mention that is right is this:

The answer is in the Nightmare Court itself if it succeeds the Silvari WILL be affected and different. They will -not- have an option even in the Dream.

And that is because, as it is presented in the chapter 1 sylvari storyline, the Nightmare overcomes the Dream as it spreads. So if “the Nightmare Court succeeds” then there’d be no Dream left, just the Nightmare, and sylvari who fall to the Nightmare are indeed affected and often (but not always) different than before.

As for the shield thing…. Along with the above quote (“only a combination of immense willpower and the protection of the Pale Tree can prevent Mordremoth from taking control”) there is this in-game:

Pale Tree: There are those who reject my protection. It leaves them vulnerable in ways they cannot imagine, in ways they never were before. I shield you as best I can and will for as long as I can.
Player Character: You’re talking about dragon corruption. We’ve been immune to it.
PT: Yes. In the past, my children have been immune. But Mordremoth’s corruption is powerful, and just as Zhaitan created the undead from so many creatures, so Mordremoth’s corruption can change you.
PC: Scarlet?
PT: I believe she opened herself to it when she let down the wall of her mind. Mordremoth’s corruption seeps in through the cracks in our willpower. Do not follow in her footsteps.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rallying_Call

And another out of game source:

Mordremoth wasn’t solely interested in claiming physical territory. It also worked its way into the minds of vulnerable sylvari like Aerin, a Soundless who had consciously separated himself from the Dream of Dreams. Without the accompanying protection of the Pale Tree, Mordremoth twisted Aerin’s earnest ambition to join the Zephyrites, positioning him as its unwitting agent to steal the Zephyrites’ most prized and powerful magical artifact: Glint’s egg.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/the-story-so-farheart-of-thorns-beats/

EDIT: To expand a bit…

The Dream in of itself is the shield – and so is the Nightmare. The Pale Tree connects sylvari to the Dream (and as a byproduct of such, to the Nightmare). It’s what protects sylvari not just from Mordremoth’s corruption, but all Elder Dragons’ corruption. But with the Pale Tree’s weakened state, Mordremoth was able to “slip through the cracks” which are Wyld Hunts/Dark Hunts to whisper thoughts into their minds unique to each sylvari.

We never see or hear of mordrem connected to either Dream or Nightmare, or feeding either, though Mordremoth is (probably as part of his domain of mind). Unlike other dragon minions, which are linked by mind and will, sylvari are at best linked by emotion alone via the Dream – which is a one way street for such connection (for most sylvari – the level of connection varies by sylvari). Even the mordrem guard are not linked to Mordremoth the same way that risen are to Zhaitan, or icebrood to Jormag, etc. etc. as we see during “Buried Insight”: with the mordrem guard that began to ‘break out’ of Mordremoth’s control. Mordremoth’s influence over sylvari is more traditional brainwashing, whereas other dragons’ corruption are brute force enslavement.

To bring this back to the Pale Tree – she doesn’t enforce or manipulate the sylvari. She does push them to follow Ventari’s tablet because she feared them falling to Mordremoth. But there was no enforcement or manipulation – just your standard teacher/parent figure insisting a child to live with certain manners.

None of this, incidentally, is at all related to the original point of the thread: that sylvari “know everything past sylvari learned”.

It seems fairly clear that if they’re adding legendaries with PoF, weapons are not it.

Maybe we’ll get a set of legendary trinkets for PoF instead.

Luindu.2418:

I have a pretty theory about, but first understand that English isn’t my natural language and maybe can missunderstand some phrases i search on the wiki. This is a “ligh version” of my theory.

First i begin with LW 3rd Season:

Show Spoiler

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I think Balthy was a good god at begining (like gw1 old times): Lying the White Mantle to frustrate their plans; Trying to help us with Aurene;And trying to stop dragons without break the equilibrium of the world, like we see with the taimi’s simulation cinematic, we are wrong.

But then we betrayed him breaking Taimi’s Machine while he was fighting with Primordus (he’s weak now and needs a boost) and now we have a “Darth Balthazar”

Except that the betrayal wasn’t in destroying Taimi’s machine. Balthazar had already told us he didn’t care if using the machine destroyed the world. The betrayal on our part came when we broke the illusions (rather than trying to talk it out before activating the trap).

If Balthazar knew Taimi’s simulation was wrong, he would have told us this – even if they were right, if he considered lying about that he would have said it was wrong giving us enough chance to doubt. However at that point, as the PC says in that episode, Balthazar is too great a threat just because of his actions regardless of what his goals were.

Luindu.2418:

And from PoF Plot:

Show Spoiler

hide spoiler

From a perspective of a GW1 player, Abaddon was a mistery without knowed past, only one certain thing: He stole power from a ancient god and he become corrupted.

I think of Abaddon was the water dragon and he stole the old god power, changed his name and become a corrupted god (explaining his past and why gods want to stop it).

For me, it makes sense that the history is repeating and Primordus “stole” the body/powers of Balthazar (During our mistake at the end of LW3) and he wants to kill other dragons and gods to become the only one. That’s, imho, the relation between “actual Balthazar” and “old Abaddon”

Many issues here.

Firstly, Abaddon’s past is not unknown. It’s just untold to players – just like the past of Dwayna, Melandru, Lyssa (which is actually canonically unknown), Balthazar, and Dhuum. Furthermore, Abaddon came to the world as a god and the “water dragon” (an inaccurate nickname for the deep sea dragon technically) is still alive an active while Abaddon is dead, so that cannot be the case – we outright know by now (technically always did) that the six Elder Dragons are wholly different from the Six Gods, even if there is a bit of overlap between the two. About “why gods want to stop [Abaddon]” it’s simply because he initiated war with them – after the gift of magic was revoked, Margonites defaced statues of the other five gods in Abaddon’s name (but not by his orders); the Forgotten took revenge on this by nearly wiping the Margonites out (a bit extreme but it’s what happened), leading to the surviving Margonites to pray to Abaddon for salvation; Abaddon gave it, and decided then and there to rule Tyria as its only god. That’s why the other gods wanted to stop him – because he initiated conflict, but couldn’t kill him because they needed a proper replacement so they imprisoned him.

As for Primordus “stealing” Balthazar’s body, his personality has not changed at all from Taimi’s Pet Project instance, long before Balthazar and Primordus met, and Jormag suffered the same fate as Primordus so it’s unlikely one dragon managed to possess Balthazar while the other went to sleep, while we’re told both went to sleep.

It’s very clear the Uncategorized Fractal is not the Proximety Lab in Brisban. The shape of it alone is vastly different (cube versus underground maze), but there’s the distinct lack of skritt in the fractal, distinct lack of local harpies in Brisban, and there is no Consortium relations to either for that matter (that we can even guess about at least).

Harper.4173:

Well – I’ve seen the latest culture trend of apology-inspired “let’s not offend and let’s make everything alright for everyone” which I think is an attitude that permeates throughout a lot of the US.

Are you looking at the same US that I live in?

Because a “trend of apology-inspired ’let’s not offend and let’s make everything alright for everyone’” is hardly what I would say is happening over here, when we got people rallying to fear-mongering businessmen and open brawls occurring in the streets between two different rallies.

I’d rather not talk politics but while I do see a quiet majority wanting to not offend folks (which is far from a bad thing) and wanting something called peace (again, not a bad thing), it’s hardly something that permeates through either the news or common fiction (after all, fiction requires strife and conflict of some kind to make a plot – well, not requires, but certainly is in the vast majority of all stories of interest).