Guild Wars 2

The whiny commander title belongs to someone else.

Sajuuk is the angry commander as his signature says. BTW he is not angry at Underworld or any of our enemies, but always throwing a fit at us little people for not doing the right things.

We love them both.

SickDelirium.3956:

Convenant.7092:

2) It’s extremely detrimental to gameplay. A team should never actually STRIVE to be outmanned in order to gain bonuses.

This is highly debatable. It is arguably much more detrimental to gameplay when one server in a match-up is constantly outmanned. If every encounter is 30 v 10, people cease to play WvW because of it. And there actually would be little incentive to seek the buff if it does what is intended: equalize. If it truly equalizes, then there is no incentive to seek the buff because it isn’t an advantage. Example: golfers don’t intentionally seek handicaps.

Convenant.7092:

People complaining about zergs in a WvW game is one of the dumbest things I’ve ever came across. What do you expect everybody to do? Run around solo accomplishing nothing? Zergs make WvW fun for many, many people. I don’t think this game should hold your hand to make it so it’s “fair and fun” for you.

Instead, make those zergs manageable by reducing culling and making small-man play more powerful versus those zergs. Only then will outmanned buff not be a problem.

Let’s be clear, zergs are fun when the matchups are even. Getting rolled constantly is only fun for the roller, never for the rollee. The question is how to better equalize matchups and the only thing I would agree with you on is finding a way for smaller groups to be more powerful versus zergs. A stat-based outmanned buff is just one way to do that, but I’m sure it’s not the only way if the devs brainstorm hard enough.

What happens if your server is constantly outmanned? Yes, you lose the matchup and fall to lower tier after a week. Then your server is no longer outmanned.

If you give the outmanned server handicaps, it will stay in the tier where it does not belong. So week after week the server is outmanned and hovering up there only because of the handicap.

The servers at the bottom tier do not have this option though. They present small percentage of players and the battlefields are in general empty. Any guild event or even rallying a PUG in Lions Arch can make a significant difference.

I fear both OPs proposals would lead to shouting at that 21st player who is less educated in game mechanics. Same thing as damage from friendly fire, or friendly player collision detection on skills/movement.

I assume you would introduce special rules for waypoints, vendors, narrow passages, etc.

Combat stats boost would lead to more grieving.

• Thieves 1-shotting people.
• Encouraging your team mates not to join a map you play in.
• Artificially skewing server ratings.
• Players blaming the Outmanned boon for their own shortcomings in combat.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/The-math-behind-WvW-ratings

http://mos.millenium.org/matchups

Thief + thief. Isn’t it obvious?

10475 – but they were all coming right for us.

[Edited by Moderator: Embedding for the removed video has been disabled by the owner]

Skill delay of this scale is new phenomenom in my WvW experience. I was on Eternal Battleground. The skill delays lasted for good 30 minutes until I decided to log out. At times I wasn’t even near a zerg.

I also noticed the outmanned boon active on me, which I believe was incorrect as the numbers on map seemed pretty even. We even took SM while having the outmanned boon.

The delays were more severe in crowded areas. But whole map was affected.

Stop worrying. Enjoy the game.

Gisei.5749:

Arenanet has said they do not want to take away such a powerful skill from the Mesmers. Frankly, I agree. They instead want to rework other professions to be able to make a similar impact on the WvW scene.

On the other hand they did want to take away reflecting siege projectiles from guardians. Perhaps when they rework up guardian skills to match mesmers they also restore the reflecting.

I just wonder what kind of skills are on the horizon. The bar is set really high with mesmer. WvW will not be recognizable when the other seven professions receive their potent skills.

I would welcome a change which makes dolyaks much harder to kill as long as there is a player escorting it.

For example make the dolyak interactable (F key) – starts a channeled heal on the dolyak. The attacker would be wise to eliminate the escorting players first or interrupt the channel.

#3

There are some skills that do not translate well with siege weapons. Namely mesmers Portal and Time Warp and elementalists Swirling Winds.

Swiftness and Might boons on golems are less of an issue. Those boons only last short time and have much lesser impact.

The guardians Wall of Reflection was already fixed not to actually reflect trebuchet projectiles or any other siege projectiles for that matter. Sanctuary and Shield of Absorption also do not protect against siege projectiles. I would expect ANet to follow same principle with the mesmer and elementalist skills.

If you want to be valuable for your team: mesmer.

• Double golem efficiency against gates with Time Warp.
• Portal roads to move golems instantly across map.
• Portal bombs to trivialize all fights.
• Portal your team past gates/walls by playing hide and seek.
• Portal your team through jumping puzzles.

LaCorpse.6750:

For me, no matter where I was in the wvw, I could not see anyone but my husband.

You have eyes only for him. He’s a lucky man. :P

Ivano.2604:

Demannu.2805:

.. As for FoW the only thing they were obviously good at capping at night before we arrived
—-

Demannu

You are coming from a different server, your original home where you left only defeats behind you.

You came on Vabbi server claiming yourself as “the saviour” who would repopulate the WvW community, any victory you will achieve will be tasteless.
Even if you would manage to climb the chart (thing that i doubt it will ever occur) your efforts will always be noticed as the easiest way to achieve some scoring.

Funny part is that you most prolly end up to be victim of your own spoil, RoS are turning up like the ones who will tier up while you “players who inhabit Vabbi” will be stuck on last tier afterall :p
Then WsR will tier down and you ll end up 2nd once again, but ofc by then i expect you and your precious army to have left Vabbi for goods.
You may prouve me wrong if you ll still be on Vabbi server for the next 30 days. Easy win…
You are going down, your arrogance is matched only by your blindness

Now, you have a good evening…

Your prediction was spot on. This Vabbi project was scrapped, Xaoc hopped to Gunnar’s Hold, the Vabbi WvW presense is nigh nonexistent again. Only the Whiteside Ridge falling down a tier is yet to fulfill.

Wotah.2975:

Korgov.7645:

I remember that earlier when enemy controlled the temple, there were number of quaggans running in circle around it and you could attack them to remove enemy control. Is it intended it no longer functions that way?

I can’t honestly recall it ever doing that.

Or maybe it was that yo gain control you had to kill the quaggans running in circle. Perhaps way back in beta weekends. Killing krait to gain favor of quaggans does make more sense, though.

Currently there is no active way to remove enemy control. You just have to wait until it becomes gray again. Maybe thats the reason it doesn’t show color either.

It takes 15 pearls to bribe a quaggan camp for your side. You can collect pearls in advance, say before reset, and use them at the beginning of next matchup. Why aren’t the pearls in your inventory reset, too?

When enemy has a quaggan camp (west, east or north) the quaggans around the camp are sometimes friendly, sometimes hostile. What is the logic behind that?

The temple does not have indicator telling which team has the quaggans guarding south and south-east supply camps. Is this a bug?

I remember that earlier when enemy controlled the temple, there were number of quaggans running in circle around it and you could attack them to remove enemy control. Is it intended it no longer functions that way?

Many pearls hidden inside terrain. Only way to find them is to hold down control key. Is this intended?

Today there is no player reward for escorting dolyaks. You can complete the event, but with 0 reward.

However your team benefits a lot for escorting dolyak safely to destination. Your team gets +3 points and the supplies into the keep. The opposite team is also denied points for killing the dolyak – that’s valuable, too.

Esoteric.5490:

A simple solution to the mitigation of portal caps by a mesmer going through the portal to drop their exit is simply requiring portal entrances and exits from separate players to be 5-10 yards apart so they actually have to move out of the portal instead of just porting through and activating theirs. This would work similar to the siege placement rule that prevents too many siege pieces from being in one place.

One less educated player entering the portal would clog it up for everyone else. Say the kind of player that allows him to get immobilized or that gets downed on top of the portal exit.

The best suggestion for fixing portals is to allow only the mesmer herself use it. And while not driving a golem. Fixes issues:

• Boredom of hide and seek in keeps
• Golem armies moving across the map within seconds
• Jumping puzzles trivialized
• Dumbed down group fight tactics

True. Bunker Elementalist does tick all the boxes above.

Mesmer would so easily be locked into portal slavery instead of commanding. As mesmer your job would be hiding in keeps, teleporting/hasting golems, sticking your neck out for portal bombs, doing jump puzzles for everyone else…

You want a profession/build which can stand back and oversee the battle field, type in chat and look at the map without fear getting instagibbed. Also something that can charge in and lead the little people into skirmish. You also want a profession with access to permanent Swiftness and other movement speed increasing skills.

Interesting suggestion.

It doesn’t fit in any current combat scenarios. Players should be able to choose their targets as they please.

It would make the value of the guards much higher then it is today. Maybe above any other upgrade a supply camp offers.

Any profession today can kill a dolyak, with or without escorting guards. Killing guards first would not change that fact. It only makes the scenario take longer.

You should not push forwards Thief vs dolyak+escorting players scenario as that profession is broken.

If you put a regular profession vs dolyak + couple of players escorting the result is most likely a dead dolyak and attacker defeated right after. Seems unfair for the players doing the escort.

If the attacker would have to kill the guards first, the result would be dolyak surviving, a guard dead and attacker defeated. This seems more fair considering the time invested by escorting players.

Alternatively the guards could give the dolyak boons to protect it: Protection, Regeneration, Retaliation, condition removal, maybe even reflective shields. This would make the target selection not so trivial. There would also be some tactics involved for attacking the dolyak when the guards are busy fighting off spawned monsters.

Xsorus.2507:

Conditions are a prime example of some of the flaws in the down state, I can down you with a buttload of conditions, They’re instantly removed when you’re downed and a single person can res you instantly and you’ll not only be able to continue the fight, have zero penalty for doing it, But you’ll also be cured of the conditions I had on you previously.

If you hit with Backstab for 50.000 damage while your opponent only has 15.000 he is not killed but only downed. The extra 35.000 damage is wasted just like with conditions.

There is a downed penalty. If you ever get downed look at the lower right corner of your health sphere. You should see a down arrow icon there.

“…I did this for a solid 15 minutes… " – Xsorus

Nice story.

Which team you considered winning that scenario?

• Your team? As you killed the elementalist and warrior after 15 minutes?
• Their team? As they kept 2 of your team occupied for 15 minutes?
• The third team? Which didn’t have to deal with 4 opponents for 15 minutes?

Xsorus.2507:

We’re annoyed with the downstated where a single dude can run up and res the guy instantly before you can stomp the guy, even with quickness half the time.

After downing an opponent you immediately start a quickness stomp and another opponent is able to run between and Revive before those 1.5 seconds have passed. Little bit exaggerating there, eh?

Could be true for a ranged when you have to walk a distance to your victim and the victim’s friend is closer. But then you need cc the other opponent or apply area denial but that’s not “skill”, hum?. Or maybe you had to burn all our cooldowns just to down the first one and now you have nothing left. Conserving CDs is not “skill”, hum?

There are 3 things suggested in this thread:

• Removing downed state
• Removing possibility to revive after stomped
  • With option to allow it only out-of-combat.
• Reduce the maximum allowed revivers

The suggestions are both supposed to be a solution against zerg tactics and/or as a solution to reward “skilled” playing more.

Both have been suggested without analyzing the effects thoroughly. I must say the few arguments so far have been weak. Mostly in the lines of: I want to be able to win even when outnumbered because I am so “skilled”. Like 3 year old kid in candy store screaming I want.

Edit: added Woodsman Silencio’s suggestion for balancing max revivers.

Downed state is what allowed to GW2 move away from the healer-dps-tank trinity.
It both protects against burst deaths and allows any profession to turn into healer when need arises.
In PvE it allows players to heroically recover from setbacks. Rallying puts even more drama into it.
In PvP it adds extra layer of tactics where you not only have to down the opponents but must also plan how to stomp them.
However in WvW large scale it is too trivial just to hit Revive whenever you see that option available to you. Then again most things are trivial in a zerg.
Overall rating: Brilliant!

Of course it is bad for solo roaming as you dont have a “healer” with you and the opponents do. Then again why would you encourage playing solo in WvW?

If you are fighting solo against multiple opponents you should lose anyway. Even if you manage to burst one of them down first.

Couple of professions can easily escape such encounter after initial failed burst and stomp attempt. One profession can down and stomp too fast to allow opponent(s) to react. I am sure these will be looked at.

Removing resurrection (revive after stomped) would probably hurt the smaller groups more. For example when the smaller group loses their mesmers/thieves due lag, splash damage, “unskillfulness” or whatever. Then the smaller group can no longer operate and has to regroup.

If you insist dead player should not be able to be revived then you understand some burst professions will have to be looked at. Maybe stomping would have to be removed altogether. Maybe escaping combat would need balancing to allow the victims group to retaliate.

For example imagine the grieving 2 thieves would cause hovering on outskirts of a enemy group. They’d be bursting one target at a time out of the group. After target is down follows a stealthed/invisible quickness stomp. Then escape combat and repeat as soon as initiative allows.

KnattyDreads.1856:

Yeah, just before you came in and posted in this thread I was complaining about not getting rewarded for my skill. /sarcasm

“Moving in a tight 5-man team with defined roles and coordination is being overtly penalized. Many times in my own experience (and in witnessing others in combat) a skilled small team has the ability to wipe 2 to 3 times their number or at the least bring that number down to more manageable odds (through skill, build, organization terrain,etc.) Herein lies the issue, the longer the fight continues the opponent with an advantage in numbers just rezzes the spiked/downed allies in the back field creating a constant trickle of opponents and an unending re-enforcement train. The result, the smaller team (which in some instances could have beaten the opponent with double or triple numbers) is overrun, pushed out or wiped.” – KnattyDreads

Yup, that was exactly what you did there.

Dee Jay.2460:

You still aren’t making any sense whatsoever?

What are you saying? If one zerg is larger than the other, bring more players?

That’s an incredibly asinine argument to make.

90% of fights against larger Zergs feel futile in WvW because the ressurection mechanics make it an almost insurmountable problem. And that’s just bad design.

There’s a difference between fighting against bad odds and feeling like you might as well just walk away.

Why it should not feel futile? The larger group has more claim for victory than your small group.

If your team is unable to set up fights so that the odds favor you, you have been out-played strategy wise. Walking away is sometimes an excellent option.

KnattyDreads.1856:

Korgov.7645:

You talk about skilled 5-man team against unskilled 25-man zerg. Then the other guy rolla the stupid ball further and talks about 10-man heros squad defending against mindless 25-man zerg. Hello?

The numbers are even when all servers hit the queues. If your server does not have enough players to fill the battlefield then there is your issue.

You should be talking about 5 skilled 5-man teams collaborating against 25-man zerg – and being unsuccessful due the downed state. But that is not the case, is it?

Or 25 players defending keep with smart siege selection, smuggling in supplies, well-timed flanking attacks against a 25-man zerg. Then complain it is impossible due downed state. But that is not the case either, is it?

Wow, if it was ever possible to miss the point people are making in a thread, you have managed to accomplish it in record time. And do me the favor of quoting one person in this thread who has stated a 5man team should be able to role a 25man zerg

talk about the stupid ball…..

“and it makes many 2v1s virtually impossible to win.” – Dee jay
“Just think of how many realistic options a 10 defenders have at defeating a 25 man Zerg attacking their keep” – Dee Jay
“skilled small team has the ability to wipe 2 to 3 times their number " – KnattyDreads
“epic defenses 10v30 at the walls” – Fabsm

Ok, not 5vs25 but you get the picture. Everyone is putting forwards delusional scenarios to justify the downed state is to blame for their “skill” not being rewarded.

You talk about skilled 5-man team against unskilled 25-man zerg. Then the other guy rolla the stupid ball further and talks about 10-man heros squad defending against mindless 25-man zerg. Hello?

The numbers are even when all servers hit the queues. If your server does not have enough players to fill the battlefield then there is your issue.

You should be talking about 5 skilled 5-man teams collaborating against 25-man zerg – and being unsuccessful due the downed state. But that is not the case, is it?

Or 25 players defending keep with smart siege selection, smuggling in supplies, well-timed flanking attacks against a 25-man zerg. Then complain it is impossible due downed state. But that is not the case either, is it?

holska.4127:

Korgov.7645:

Dolyak escorting/killing seems to be often overlooked when commanders choose a strategy.

Depends what the strategy is. Dolyaks / Sentries also can be used to estimate enemy movement and if going for a fast surprise strike it may situationally be wise to not touch them and rather leave them for the next squad passing through to kill them.

Estimating enemy movements from dolyaks and sentrys disappearing from map is one thing. Disrupting enemy supply lines is also essential in long sieges.

But what I was trying say is the points gained from killing/escorting dolyaks. For example last week EU Tier 1 servers got 25% of their total points from dolyaks and sentries.

Dolyaks are worth a lot of points for your server. Potentially more than keeps, towers and camps. Dolyak escorting/killing seems to be often overlooked when commanders choose a strategy.

1. Mesmer portal is usable by mesmer herself only. And of course while not controlling a Golem.
2. Add Exit WvW option to World Vs World [B] dialog’s dropdown menu. Only usable when out-of-combat. There have been dozens of new players asking how to leave WvW.
3. Remove bank services, trading post agents, crafting stations, crafting vendors and portals to Lion’s Arch from WvW. Do your loitering in a city of your choice – not in WvW.

As only playing WvW myself I would like to see the rendering bug fixed. The one that prevents you to seeing unstealthed opponent for extra 3 seconds.

It seems to be a difficult one to fix to the point one has to ask whether the game engine itself is unfit for Stealth skill.

Alternatively Stealth could be changed so that it does not grant invisibility. Thieves would still retain access to stealth-only abilities and protection from directly aimed attacks.

That way the rendering bug would have no effect. AoE would become a valid counter against thieves as the profession description says. Thieves, and to lesser extent mesmers, would no longer be excused from gearing vitality/toughness in WvW.

In this thread you can find a graph of professions played. Unfortunately it is very old. Any updates?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Most-played-class-in-Gw2/first#post728957

I’d still be more interested to see how many hours each profession has spent in WvW.

Is there any statistics on how much each profession is presented in WvW?

How the presentation has evolved over time?

Is there much difference to profession presentation in sPvP?

Just a thought: What if stealth would not grant invisibility? Thief would only turn transcluent, be unattackable by direct attacks and have stealth specific skills available to them.

I am sure the developers are thinking hard if they could just reduce the data precision instead of simply culling out all data of some players. For example slower reporting rate for distant players and for the less volatile data – no need to report player’s name every 50 ms, only at map load and when new players join.

Xsorus.2507:

I’ve come to that conclusion..all it does is punish/reward certain classes and makes it harder for Smaller Numbers to win a fight against greater odds.

It also is extremely annoying in 1v1’s, I basically have to kill some targets twice just to finally down them as trying to down them the regular way just waste time.

I worked very hard to copy the traits and skills from a forums post and I followed the gearing instructions to the last detail.

But! Now I can only get an enemy player to downed state with my Killshot/Fireball/Backstab. I get no loot because his allies just revive him.

The downed state must be removed. Now!

Change it so that that my burst skill instantly kills my opponent and I get the reward I so clearly deserve.

Zynthetic.2954:

I said if matches are too even week after week after week, then they stagnate with no servers going up, and none going down.

This has numerous other side effects to, such as boredom, irritation, and unfriendly rivalries (TC vs FA threads make good examples of that last point) among others.

Perhaps players could take initiative on breaking the stagnation. If that really is any issue.

Change your strategy a bit. Instead of defending all of your own borderland and your 3rd of the EB, focus on one opposing server’s borderland and do dolyak hunting on the other maps.

jayderyu.3751:

Sorry, but Glicko system is written to be a gauge of over all player or team rating. Glicko was not and is not designed to maintain matching between parties. Check out the creators own site and read up on it.

Point taken.

Even though Glicko is being used wrong the outcome is even matches. Except at the lowest tier where the weakest servers have nowhere to fall.

For example in the lowest EU tier we have 2 servers which are significantly weaker than the ones just above leading to full pie matches.

Zynthetic.2954:

The problem is that if servers are so evenly matched that they can’t pull ahead, then they’re stuck against one another. You could have all the best servers in a lower bracket, and they wouldn’t be able to escape it.

This is not a problem. This is the whole purpose of the score system. Put evenly matched servers against each other. That in turn should provide the best WvW experience.

Should Tier 8 have such fortunate situation why would anyone want to escape it?

Ranks, titles, leaderboards, skins… yes please.

Nay on vertical progression. Nay on gear threadmill. WvW must have easily accessible maximum power level.

Nay on PvE unlocks through WvW. Players should not feel obligated to do WvW only to access their favorite content. Just see how many topics already complain about the map completition achievement requiring WvW.

This is a buff to mesmer profession – just like the recharge duration increase. Mesmers will be in higher demand in WvW. Better give up your other useless professions and roll a mesmer.

In the next patch you can expect portal to carry the mesmer only. But by then WvW will have only mesmers playing so it makes no difference. :P

No longer sticky and now new threads about this are started.

The heart of the issue is that captured nodes tick points for your team even when no-one is there.

If the game would require players to be at the node to make it tick points, then the night capping issue would be greatly diminished. Also if your team would get those +3 points only for dolyaks which were really escorted by players.

However if I had to stand in a captured tower with nothing to do I would get bored out of my mind.

Obviously there would have to be some activity. For example dynamic events bringing horde of NPCs to capture keeps you have to fight off. NPC kills counting towards points for your team.

But then again NPCs would mean more PvE which some players frown upon.

Perhaps the captured nodes could have war banners that you can carry out to battle. Your team gets points only if you kill enemy players near the banner. If the banner carrier gets killed instead, the banner returns to the node and has to be carrier back to the battle field.

MartyPartys.9187:

Portals are fine as they are, they have been nerfed in the last patch, they don’t need another.

The Portal recharge increase from 60 seconds to 90 seconds was a mesmer buff. Now teams need 50% more mesmers than before. Mesmers are in much better place in WvW now. You can expect to see more and more of mesmers while other professions will lose presentation.

WvW is fun. I don’t need any other reason.

The mix of pvp and pve, playing as team with no strings attached, good balance between simplicity of game mechanics and variety appeal to me. I love that there is no vertical progression.

The loot gives back enough money to pay for repairs, upgrades and sieges. Karma, exp, server bonuses, badges don’t interest me as I am already level 80 and with good enough gear.

As for future rewards… I would like to see some ranks to show off, achievements of yours and your guild to compare against others, some publicity for your guild for going that extra mile towards victory… that kinds of thing.

The simplest fix to portals was deducted in yet another thread talking about portals in WvW.

Simply: only mesmer herself move through her portal.

Fixes: must-have mesmers in team, culling issue with portal bomb, confusion which side a portal belongs to, mesmer hide-in-keep slavery, mesmer elevator slavery in jumping puzzles, instantly travelling golem armies

Pros: much simpler than any other suggestion, mesmers can keep their escape mechanism

Cons: portal bomb tactic no longer available