Guild Wars 2

Silvercyclone.1462:

Its basically a farm in Frostgorge Sound where u stop players from completing an objective needed to continue the Living Story.

This is accurate though not as sugar coated as some people would prefer.

ANet needs to address the issue, it’s bad form to have something that:

a.) cause contention between players of the same faction (after all if ANet wanted that we could be dueling each other over gathering nodes)

b.) rewards more for failure than success, that’s called a design flaw

Famous now:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2htlff/single_player_creating_whole_map_lag/

It’s on a timer, at least that’s what I got from digging up a wiki article.

Reportedly, it has been bugged in the past:

event for krewe leader dobbs clearing excavation site bugged. south of gyre rapids.
no waves spawning, making this dynamic quest impossible AND the heart quest in the area (almost) impossible

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2h6ko1/krewe_leader_dobbs/

Gulesave.5073:

Why don’t we keep traits unlockable from exploration and events as they are currently, but let the player choose which traits they get each time?

It could be as broad as a challenge unlocking “any Adept trait of your choice,” or a little tighter by specifying both tier and line, such as “any Adept trait in the Power line.”

This would give players a little leeway in choosing their own content and builds, instead of having one railroad the other.

Yet one more example how the Trait System could have been changed in a manner far more interesting and engaging than the change we got.

Ban Seka.5647, problem solved.

Jana.6831:

yeah and that was my point, read my second post in this thread to which the person I then answered responded at which point you came to accuse me of not playing eotm or wvw.

I was responding to this:

In wvw the people actually play to win and that for a week, so just think about what happens if some zerg facerolls you while you’re doing your EotM karma train.
EDTA: and there’s only the boss chest when capping a tower/camp/keep with maybe one badge of honour in it if you’re lucky.

In my experience, serious opposition and interruption of the Zerg-train just isn’t all that common, not saying it doesn’t happen but not enough to matter.

Concerning Badges, I’ve received 24 at a time…usually 5-12 range on a capture point. Either way, 1600-1800 in a 4 day period of EotM.

Concerning chests, there’s quite a few of them. These took me by surprise initially, I didn’t realize they’d spawn after the boss was killed, I thought it would be like regular Keep Lords etc. In addition, the fancy loot bags, I get dozens of these -which is pretty awesome.

@Jana.6831

I just started playing EotM in the last couple of weeks or so that I have been back to the game, upon initially returning I jumped right back into the regular WvW Maps: Borderlands and Eternal Batlegrounds extensively before giving EotM a try…

Hands down, EotM is more rewarding on every level that tangibly matters to the player than the other WvW Maps.

Arcadio.6875:

Personally, I would like EOTM to stay as it is. What they should do with actual WvW is reward players for participating with tickets each week. With the current tournament, you get tickets for participating (doing 5 events in WvW or EOTM). 200 if your server gets 1st, 150 if 2nd, 100 if 3rd. You can buy Mistforged weapons, Mini Dolyak, and Ascended Accessories with the tickets.

On the whole, I think EotM has a lot of things right, map size being one example.

It doesn’t help that players are spread out over so many WvW maps, I would be curious to see what would happen if EotM was the ONLY WvW Map….

Can you imagine the epic nature of such a contest?

Currently, in my opinion there’s often not enough players on a given map (on a regular basis) to make for an interesting PvP experience.

Labjax.2465:

See, the question that comes to mind for me is, a) what’s the actual issue here? b) if there is an issue, what is the best approach to fix it?

Great post, by the way.

I won’t pretend to know the answer, I can only give my assessment that something is very wrong with WvW in general that is particularly noticeable when you look at EotM.

Labjax.2465:

I mean, if they nerf EotM rewards significantly, it may become a largely dead map. I don’t see it making WvW more attractive to play – I’m pretty sure the majority of EotM players use it to farm 1) karma or 2) XP. They get quite a few badges in the process, but so what? I have used EotM a lot for leveling and end up spending badges on level 80 exotics to gear out my new character.

Yes, and those types of swings in a game have happened before as the Dev’s Pendulum Hammer swings from one extreme to another.

There’s nothing wrong with players choosing an oasis over a desert. That EotM WvW has more mass appeal then regular WvW is entirely rational.

My question is why would ANet introduce the “oasis” into the game that had previously been focused on the the “desert”?

Labjax.2465:

I guess what I’m saying concerning badges is, what exactly is there to spend badges on that is even worth being concerned about a disparity? The gift maybe?

This goes way beyond badges, I’m talking about time spent in EotM, minute by minute, is more rewarding on every level than the standard WvW Maps.

It makes complete sense, take a look at the maps, there’s your answer.

Labjax.2465:

If they bump up WvW rewards, then yay, WvW players are now getting equal stuff, I guess. But now we hit another potential problem. If they make WvW too attractive to the reward-seeking player by bumping up its rewards, then you will probably see more uplevel deadweight running around WvW, begging everyone to do whatever strategy nets the most experience and rewards.

Is that something that would really mix well?

ANet can continually rearrange the carrots and the sticks, players will adjust accordingly but that doesn’t solve the underlying problem. Adding another WvW Map to the mix was a mistake; here’s a thought: fix the original WvW Experience.

I personally believe the WvW Maps are the problem and should be completely rebuilt from the ground up.

• The WvW are too large, essentially players, even large groups of players can roam without opposition for prolonged stretches of time.

• Too many capture points, means that capture points are not valued. Oversaturation!

• Bring back WvW Relevance to the Realms, make WvW matter, remember Orbs of Power? I refuse to believe that ANet couldn’t fix the issues.

• There’s entirely too much flipping going on, talk about a way that cheapens the victories? Well, making victories meaningless is a good way to do that and that’s what the current WvW accomplishes.

• The Maps are generic clones and there’s no sense of ownership or identity.

Labjax.2465:

And there is a third option that comes to mind, too. They could try to make the reward gain equal on paper. But it’s never going to be completely equal because – as far as I know – the way people play WvW is fundamentally different to EotM. With one, the goal is to win. With the other (for the most part), the goal is to maximize rewards.

Rewards are just the flavor syrup on top of the pile…it’s what that "pile’ actually consists of that truly matters.

Not to say rewards aren’t important, but if they are the only thing making the content palatable to players…well that’s a fundamental problem.

Jana.6831:

Kuldebar.1897:

Jana.6831:

In wvw the people actually play to win and that for a week, so just think about what happens if some zerg facerolls you while you’re doing your EotM karma train.

EDTA: and there’s only the boss chest when capping a tower/camp/keep with maybe one badge of honour in it if you’re lucky.

I’ve accumulated 1800 badges in 4 days.

You didn’t get my point, I was explaining how wvw differs from EotM and why the rewards aren’t as plenty. You can respawn as often as you like, but if the zerg as at your zergs tail you won’t get as many loot as you usually would – and the karma train is why people are doing EotM.
And if you made 1800 badges through EotM (you didn’t say where) within 4 days you prove my point.

First off, if your point is about EotM WvW being different than regular WvW, that’s what this whole thread is largely about…

Acting like other players pose a serious counter challenge to the gravy train….I’m not seeing that.

Also, sounds to me like you don’t play EotM WvW very much, if at all.

Zergs in EotM very rarely, if ever, “follow on each other’s heels”. This is for the simple fact that flipping capture points is far more rewarding to everyone involved, period.

Getting bogged down in “hawt Zerg on Zerg action” is just not all that lucrative.

No one interested in the base rewards (xp, rank, badges, karma, loot) would ever elect to play regular WvW over Eotm WvW.

World Ranking and Server match-ups just aren’t compelling enough to warrant running around very large maps with huge unrewarding open spaces for sub-par rewards.

Anet needs to add some world bosses that aren’t on rails, meaning varied and truly random and not limited to particular zones.

That would make things more interesting because players would have to work together and spread the word versus just piling up into a zone waiting for a shoe to fall at the scheduled time.

Yes, by all means, keep the Bosses currently on rails, but how about we get some real dynamic and random world bosses as well?

And don’t screw it up by tying unlocks to these random events.

Jana.6831:

In wvw the people actually play to win and that for a week, so just think about what happens if some zerg facerolls you while you’re doing your EotM karma train.

EDTA: and there’s only the boss chest when capping a tower/camp/keep with maybe one badge of honour in it if you’re lucky.

I’ve accumulated 1800 badges in 4 days.

Jana.6831:

In wvw thge people actually play to win and that for a week, so just think about what happens if some zerg facerolls you while you’re doing your EotM karma train.

So what? Not like it costs you anything to respawn and start the train over again with the general knowledge of where to avoid the opposing zerg.

People don’t have to play EotM to win in order to win, just run around capturing point until you are stopped, then rinse and repeat.

Success is guaranteed.

How is success measured? I maintain that to the majority of players it will be in level gains, loot, coin and badges.

So what you get rolled by “why so serious” players occasionally? Big freakin’ whoop. It doesn’t happen enough to hurt the bottom line.

It’s all very rational and players aren’t stupid when it comes to risk versus reward on the broad scale.

And, while it is true that mindless EotM is not my ideal of what the WvW experience should be, well that train left the station some time ago.

Labjax.2465:

I am under the impression, from what others have said, that WvW actually has similar reward structure to EotM, but a large part of why people don’t get the same rewards is because they aren’t playing it in the same way. Is that not true?

I can only speak to my experience, here’s what I’ve noticed in “regular” WvW experince as compared to the EotM experience:

• In regular WvW, longer periods of time are required between rewarding events like capture points, etc.

• Acquisition of loot is just hands down more rewarding in EoTM, loot bags, armor, coin, badges, etc. at a much higher frequency

• WvW Ranking is faster in EotM, for the above stated reasons: EotM is like regular WvW but minus all the empty map space and much better rewards more often.

Vayne.8563:

Guess it depends on what you enjoy. I enjoy the open world more than the ktrain that is EoTM. So for me, open world leveling is the fun part of the game, more fun than EotM. It may or may not be the fastest way to level, but I level pretty kitten ed fast in the open world anyway.

Yes, it does come down to what is enjoyable. On a sliding scale, some people may seemingly like everything and never blink at changes; while others will weigh things out in a more critical manner and perhaps consider the changes to the game as less than satisfactory.

In a another thread, I suggested that new randomly varied roaming world bosses be added to the game. I suggested this to offset the utter predictability of the usual bosses that people robotically flocked to and wait for…often those scheduled bosses have unlocks tied to them, etc.

ANet doesn’t have to remove that experience, they can keep it as is and ADD a new experience that doesn’t devalue or destroy the existing ones.

Ohoni.6057:

Of course, that’s why it’s a bloody awful idea to tie a random event to things players rely on, like karma vendor access.

But true varied random world Bosses throughout the zones would not be keyed to such things.

But it depends on how you have fun. One of the more fun things for me in GW2 is open world bosses. If they were not scheduled and were completely random, then trying to find one that was active would be nearly impossible. You might encounter one every few days, rather than several per day like I do now. The rest of the time you’d spend wasting time in random zones hoping a boss might pop, and when it does, it would likely be way underpopulated because nobody would know about it that wasn’t also randomly in that zone. No, it’s terrible.

There’s no reason not to have both. The existing scheduled robotic bosses can stay as is, but I’d like to see some varied and random ones introduced that are value added experiences.

Nkuvu.2570:

Icenine.7102:

I made a engineer and I read that they get a turret at level 5.

Note that the utility slot levels used to start unlocking at level 5. This changed recently, so it sounds like whatever you are reading is a little out of date.

Keep this in mind if you run into other things in your reading source that don’t exactly match up with the current state of the game. You can always double check the game updates page to see if there was any mention of a change (in this particular case, relevant updates would be the September 16th and 9th patches).

Yes, the level requirement changes were implemented in the September Feature Pack as part of the “New Player Experience” and as Nkuvu stated there’s probably a lot of outdated web pages that still refer to the original system.

As for me, I find it more confusing to gain Traits before you can actually use them at level 30.

Ohoni.6057:

I generally think timers are bad for the game and would prefer a more truly dynamic/random system.

While the idea of that sounds good, in practice I know that I don’t like it. The Orrian temples, for example, are currently random, and they are a pain in the kitten, because if you want to do one you can never find one that’s active, and when one is active, chances are you’re elsewhere.

Of course, that’s why it’s a bloody awful idea to tie a random event to things players rely on, like karma vendor access.

But true varied random world Bosses throughout the zones would not be keyed to such things.

I generally think timers are bad for the game and would prefer a more truly dynamic/random system.

I also think random and varied world bosses should periodically wreak havoc throughout the zones. They could start out in a remote map location and slowly make their way to an outpost or village, this would give players in the zone some time to holler for help. The key is that this needs to not be schedule driven, Rift had this element, but the Rift Stages themselves became somewhat repetitive overall, I’m just suggesting some varied BOSS monsters to spice up the open world.

The game needs some unpredictability, maybe the Bosses could drop Trait Unlocks, even.

Icenine.7102:

I haven’t played gw2 since closed beta, so needless to say i’m relearning the game.

I made a engineer and I read that they get a turret at level 5. However I’m level 10 now and I have yet to get a turret skill. Am I missing something or what?

You have to spend skill points to purchase the ability.

Ltomato.8649:

I remember when GW2 had the objectively BEST communities.

I don’t ever recall that, but ANet lacks the human parts when it comes to game design. They seem to be exceedingly proficient in many technical areas but utterly fubarred when it comes to the primate at the keyboard.

Take a look at the TP “improvements” as an example, did anyone human actually check it out (ie. USE it?) before it was released? I won’t delve into it here, but it’s related to the usual ANet’s blind spots.

Community is such a delightfully squishy term.

If ANet had truly wanted and understood “server pride and solidarity” they wouldn’t have made the slew of design choices like:

• no unique WvW faction maps, only clone

• WvW doesn’t matter, once the ANet threw in the towel and removed the Orbs of Power, the whole idea of tying WvW into something tangible to the applicable realm was sidelined

• EotM just short circuited the whole of the older WvW implementation

• no identifiable PvP enemies, just generic names/ranks (hell, we don’t even get the same color on the map each time!)

• outside of regular guildees, do you even run into the same players on a routine basis?

• bewildering dungeon designs that work against casual groups

• outside of a dungeon, who even needs to be in a group?

• multiple Guild Memberships, yeah that’s a real great way to be dedicated!

• account bound…everything. No chance here to build identities on specific characters with specific friends and social associations. Nope, all lumped under one Name:6666 label…I feel so very immersed!

• no defined roles, yes no Trinity…just borgish Unity. It would have been far more revolutionary if ANet had allowed the Trinity roles to be an actual option, but their design doesn’t allow for very deep specializations.

/rant off

Dragoonale.7518:

There has certainly been a LOT of controversy following Anet changing the leveling experience. I can NOT speak for the trait changes, or anything else for that matter.

I’ve gotten over my aversion to the NPE especially after some issues were corrected in the followup patch. I also appreciate that you distinguished your comment by mentioning that you are not lumping in the TRAIT changes of April.

To me the TRAIT changes are the deal breaker and have completely derailed the leveling enjoyment I used to have with my new alternate characters.

I hit 30 on my Engineer and got my “one” Trait point…six levels later I get another.

I’m sorry that just SUCKS.

I have since given up trying to complete zone maps, Hearts and Events until I reach 80 and have a skill set.

I do not like playing on a hobbled character. (Please note, I had previously leveled an Engineer [since deleted] under the old Trait system, so I have a frame of reference)

I will just ride the EotM Zerg Train until 80 and do my Personal Story when they get pooped out to me.

I’ll just deal with the challenges at 80, makes things a lot more enjoyable, not going to play on nerfed characters.

It’s not my ideal of fun, but something I will do before rage quitting this train wreck forever.

As it stands, such a change wouldn’t do anything other perturb players. The game was designed to eliminate such “inconveniences” and has done so in big ways…making a WP change as you describe would signify nothing and only spawn (rightful) complaints.

ANet has a bad habit of reversing established game design elements, while some may consider this bold, I see it as a bad thing because you are breaking a covenant with your players and essentially admitting game design elements were not adequately developed and planned out.

Someone who I have grown to respect over the years, since my days of playing DAoC, touched upon the issue:

Foundational Principle #3 – You should always hold the hands of your little children while crossing busy intersections but…

…our players are not children and this is not an intersection crossing. Over the years many MMORPG designers, me included, have employed various devices and mechanics in order to increase our games’ subscription base.

We removed points of frustration (I termed them “quit points” at Mythic), sped up the leveling curve (the argument being that games should not be harder to level than WoW), highlighted evolutionary or revolutionary new features to differentiate our games from our competition (extremely guilty as charged your honor!) and others too numerous to describe here.

While this has brought about some very good innovations, it also resulted in the vast majority of MMORPGs becoming easier to player, simpler to master and more “hand-holding” than their earlier brethren.

These mechanics include:

• speeding up of travel time (Players: “I don’t want to have to walk 20 minutes to get into the action because it feels like we are moving through mud”),

• lack of meaningful and/or punishing death penalties (Players: “OMG, I died because your random number generator is broken! It’s not my fault!”),

• fast leveling systems (Players: “I don’t want to max my character 12 months from now; I only play once a week”),

• auction houses (Players: “Don’t force me to interact with other players to sell/buy stuff. I have to do that in RL, I don’t want to do that in a game.”),

• easy to follow quest directions with full signage included (Players: “I don’t want to explore the world to find this NPC. I don’t have that much time to waste!”), etc.

Players of course, relayed those “Player” statements to us back in my Dark Age of Camelot days on forums and through feedback/chat/Q&As/etc.

Now, none of these techniques is morally or ethically bad (since what is challenging for one gamer can be total frustration for another) nor are many players’ desires for an easier and faster playing game; and as a designer/developer/player, I absolutely agreed with some of them.

However, with the implementation of some of these techniques, much of what made earlier MMORPGs and RPGs unique and challenging was lost.

Many developers/publishers were and are so afraid to let the players lose, make mistakes, suffer any inconvenience, etc., that we have created a feedback loop whereby many players expect spoon fed content that goes down real easy, shown how to do everything, directed so they can’t make serious mistakes, etc.

This has in turn caused many players and designers to lose touch with what made success in earlier MMOs really mean something.

Crafting offers some excellent XP and you can put on levels when crafting items/discovery.

Is it “necessary”? No, it’s optional but can be worthwhile if you master it and also helpful for gearing up any leveling alts and making some coin on the TP.

The Trading Post is the Auction House, not to be confused with the Black Lion Trader tab which is the Gem Store/Cash Shop.

I’ll reserve comment on the UI for the TP…there’s plenty of irritation left in its design elements even for veteran players.

HHR LostProphet.4801:

ANet didn’t do anything to WvW. EotM rewards the player equally as WvW does, the problem is just that the objectives in EotM are much closer together, which lets the player take more objectives in less time compared to normal WvW.

ANet didn’t do anything to WvW?

Come on now, they did by creating EotM in the very way you just described, it’s a matter of balance…or in this case imbalanced design.

Same way that opening up a Super Walmart next door to a Mom & Pop Grocery Store will defintely “do something”!

But this is worse because ANet implementation is “competing” with itself, and Players won’t jump through three hoops when they can get the same (or better rewards) by just jumping through one hoop.

Tulki.1458:

Be careful. If you transmute an ascended item it destroys all the infusions in it.

Yeah, if this is happening, it’s a bug. I haven’t Transmuted anything with an Infusion lately, but they should be safe just like the other upgrades when just applying skins.

NPE isn’t a real issue, lot of the glaring problems have been fixed (Profession Skills for example).

The core issue remains the Trait Point acquisition and Trait Unlock system that was implemented in April.

This truly nerfed leveling characters in a big way while also making them far less interesting to level and gameplay far more shallow.

Some Professions suffer more than others for the lack of Traits, my level 33 Engineer feels absolutely lame rolling around Kessex Hills with one active Trait.

Having leveled an Engineer (now deleted) to level 28 under the old system…there’s a world of difference to the leveling experience and not in a good way.

KngGilgamesh.3481:

Fast and easy perhaps but i would not consider it best, i have seen too many people advise new players to level their first character though it.

Me too, and I disregarded that advice until very recently as I was leveling a string of alts under the new system.

And, I agree, it’s not my preferred choice, but after leveling two 80’s under the old Trait System, I really can’t bear bringing up more characters under the new system. It just plays out like a major Profession Nerf. (I previously had alts in the level ranges of 28-44 which I deleted to have a fresh start when I returned to the game)

The NPE isn’t the issue for me, it’s the rationing of Trait Points and the subsequent unlocking system for the actual Traits.

I’d just rather hit 80 and then deal with the task of exploration and completion and unlocking Traits.

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Jana.6831:

To be honest: EotM has some things which should be “nerfed”. Before, when facing someone with a higher rank in wvw was kind of an indication that they will be good, now everybody has got high ranks as EotM is that easy. Also: getting badges through regular wvw is a pain but they (plus siege) are given out like candy in EotM – that is kind of unfair. Loot as much as you like, I have nothing against that, I just think the rank and badges rewards are insulting to regular wvw.

So buff WvW rewards, what’s the deal?

He’s right and you’re right.

The pacing of regular WvW and the commensurate rewards just can’t hold a candle to EotM…and I am a big WvW fan; but EotM is just too lucrative to pass up.

Minute for minute, EotM just offers more for the player when you look at time spent and rewards.

I’m just baffled to be honest, I can’t believe ANet did this to “regular” WvW.

That’s really what it’s looking like to me.

My level 33 (Turret) Engineer is not enjoying clearing PvE Maps with one Trait Point unlocked.

It’s far more efficient and faster to simply rinse and repeat EotM over and over.

Rewarding as well because along with the XP, you get decent drops and Badges of Honor.

Even if you abhor PvP, it’s actually relatively rare that you even have to fight enemy players.

Now, not saying that’s the most fun thing way, it gets rather repetitive and mind numbing but it pays off.

It will get you to 80 and get your Trait Points Unlocked which will only leave you with the job of unlocking specific Traits.

I just don’t have the stomach for bumbling around doing Events, Hearts and Exploration on a character that is handicapped.

It is far better to get to 80 and do all the Zone Completion at level Cap. I am doing that on my 80 Necromancer (who happens to have all his Traits Unlocked) and I am having a blast.

Once upon a time, soloing in GW2 was something I enjoyed and it now seems to be something only 80’s can do without it feeling like you are swimming through molasses.

Traits and being Traited was a rather large part of leveling experience.

I guess I will just have to join the Zerg Train and lose myself in it until I hit 80 on all my alts.

I just can’t believe this is what ANet intended the game to be.

A Turret Engineer, yeah, I know; for this I apologize in advance, but real Engineers use Turrets, practice area denial and harass the enemy.

We aren’t fast strikers; we are bulwarks, trappers and gauntlet creators.

Sure, ANet hasn’t really designed them for this, but regardless, I know what’s right even when its wrong.

But that’s what I want my Engineer to be when he grows up.

He’s only 33 at the moment with only one trait point to his name.

And I really hate kits, I despise the clunky nature of their design.

I envision an Engineer to be more Warhammer and less Mad Bomber:

http://warhammeronline.wikia.com/wiki/Engineer

Oh well, one can dream.

People need to consider the whole picture.

No one is complaining about the newly added rewards for leveling, it’s the hard restrictions and gating of TRAITS (April) and now Skills/Abilities (September) that’s twisting people’s shorts up.

Ostensibly, I put more weight into the opinions of people who have leveled extensively under both systems (pre-April and after) then I do of players who are now just tuning in.

The drib and drab progression of the post April TRAIT changes PLUS the September level gating has borked the game in significant ways.

No one should really be rejoicing about having your character being significantly hobbled throughout the leveling progression from 1 to 80.

TRAITS:
Level	Points earned	Total points
30	                   1	                         1
36	                   1	                         2
42	                   1	                         3
48	                   1	                         4
54	                   1	                         5
60	                   1	                         6
66	                   2	                         8
72	                   2	                       10
78	                   2	                       12
80	                   2	                       14

The following are level gated items:

Weapon skill 2 (Unlocked at level 2)

Weapon skill 3 (Unlocked at level 3) 

Rally(downstate) (Unlocked at level 5)

Off-hand weapon slot (Unlocked at level 7)

Weapon skill 4 (Unlocked at level 7)

Underwater Combat (Unlocked at level 8 with underwater weapon skills 1 and 2)

Personal story (Unlocked at level 10 in chapters every 10 levels)

Weapon skill 5 (Unlocked at level 10)

Utility Skill 1 (Unlocked at level 13)

Underwater skill 3 (Unlocked at level 14)

Weapon Swap (Unlocked at level 15)

Down Skill 3 (Unlocked at level 19)

Underwater skill 5 (Unlocked at level 23

Utility Skill 2 (Unlocked at level 24)

Adept Tier Traits (Unlocked at level 30)

Elite Skill (Unlocked at level 31)

Master Traits (Unlocked at level 60)

Grandmaster Traits (Unlocked at level 80)

It’s like ANet is doing its best to rip the remaining fun from the ONE segment of the player population who actually enjoyed the journey from level 1 to 80.

Seriously, in a game where the (often) irrational shrilling complaint is about not enough “end-game”, why would you sabotage the area most people were relatively content with?

I ding level 30 on my Engineer and finally have access to Traits!

I open up the Trait Panel….I have 1 POINT…1 Trait Point to spend.

Yeah, after 30 levels and a handful of Traits Unlocked…I get 1 Point to spend.

Dispense with the NPC entirely: have the tickets in-game mailed to you.

To put it simply, what should have happened:

• The standard Traits, ie. the core Traits, should have been left as they were in regards to how they were acquired. (This is not to say the Traits for various Professions don’t need tweaking and fixes, of course!)

• New Traits should have been introduced into the game, and those Traits would be tied to various well chosen content gated activities or achievements.

Thus allowing the player to acquire the Core Traits more or less as intended while serving up some “Elite” Traits that would inspire the Player to tackle some fun challenges.

Concerning Orr:

Orr is pretty ingenious because it serves both old and new players to the storyline and it works well. For new players, they confront Zhaitan’s Undead and progress through the encounters. After Zhaitan is defeated, Orr becomes a mop up enterprise, after all, all those undead didn’t just disappear when Zhaitan was destroyed, they have to be put down.

Additionally, Orr will be centuries in recovery, because it was submerged undersea for centuries and until all the Risen are eliminated, it’s not exactly a great place to build a summer home.

Concerning Lion’s Arch:

It’s being slowly rebuilt, there’s little changes every now and again after patches. I think the Devs are taking their time with the New LA, players adjust as they always do, when LA is finished, I am sure it will be very popular again.

It’s a win/win for the game; right the players seek out other cities and are coaxed out of their usual haunts.

This great news! GG is a sweetheart, though no pushover, she’s awesome at smoothing out the wrinkles in information flow between the Company and the Gamers.

MikaHR.1978:

But to be fair, that one falls on the community.

People keep saying that, it’s meaningless even if it was objectively (which it isn’t) objectively true.

This amorphous mass, called community, who the hell are they? Wasn’t me, I guess I’m not part of that organism.

Lest we get confused by the facts, let me summarize:

Yes, there were players who wanted ANet to implement an ELITE Trait Capture system similar to the original GW’s Elite Skill Capture…

Did ANet deliver? Well, not exactly, they converted the entire EXISTING Traits and threw in a few new ones (which was very nice) and converted the whole shebang over to this unlock acquisition system we have now.

So, let’s put down the koolaid and acknowledge that the true onus of the Trait Changes were ANet and their wonky way of interpreting what players actually want.

It’s more an art than a science. ANet is great at science, but it is the “art” part that kicks their backsides time and time again.

Treating every problem like a nail in need of hammering can only get you so far.

eekzie.5640:

There’s been so many times I’ve seen people complain that after they explored the first zone they couldn’t progress to the next one because they were underleveled.

Being underleveled was never an issue for me, but I also do a lot of different things like total zone completion/exploration before moving on, some WvW, gathering, crafting, Personal Stories and Skill Challenges.

So, yes, if you have a “timid” or unadventurous player, it could be an issue but I find it rather unlikely that they’d be “underleveled” if they were doing the Personal Story, Hearts and participating in Events, etc.

@Tobias Trueflight.8350

The high level attacks worked really well in TERA. The Dracoloths would descend down in a zone regardless of level and people would have to respond to the threat.

The loots were enticing so it didn’t take long for players to turnout. Unlike GW2, Tera doesn’t have down-scaling, but the event was very popular:

With the rise in players, we’ve seen a rise in dracoloths around the world of TERA. They’re too big to handle alone, so collect some friendly fighters and head out to find them. They could be anywhere—but they’re dracoloths, so they’re not exactly inconspicuous.

Corpse camping won’t work on these things, though—once they’re down, they’re down for good.

Dracoloth Sovereign Invasion: March 20–24

Location: Wouldn’t you like to know…

The problem is, that designing a game for the lowest denomination of player is never a good idea, neither is the inverse.

Admittedly, compared to typical MMO’s, leveling was unfulfilling for some players because GW2 was relatively/comparatively horizontal in progression and didn’t inflate in drastic and overt ways; after all, down-scaling was there for a reason: level out the progression curve.

But after the TRAIT Changes of April, leveling became ever more “dull” because Traits were no longer being unlocked as you progressed and the process of crafting your character (you recall, the fun part about leveling?) was postponed to much later in the game and locked behind certain Content Gates and relatively high Gold/Skill Point Costs.

The NPE did some things right like the leveling up rewards and the compass pointer (minus bugs)…but the stuff it didn’t get right is just stupid…plain stupid:

• Bundles/dumbing down (what used to be awesome) Hearts
• Weapon Swap
• Off Hand Weapon
• Skill Challenges
• Underwater Combat
• Map Censorship

Speeding up the leveling for the first 15 levels also seems rather heavy handed.

Of course, I liked the leveling rate before, that ANet felt they had to alter it for the first 15 levels seems like a rather inelegant solution to a problem they created for no good reason.

Playing a Necromancer…from level 1 to 75 I have been pressing just three abilities…

I don’t understand this as part of your review. You chose to not use other weapons or skill abilities?

But, I love this idea:

A truly dynamic event would be a dragon that appears anywhere in the world, but only every so often, or a gang of highway man. These are things that have a global impact, but occur in a localized area. It’s rather the state of the universe that for something to occur it must be localized.

It would scare new players though, using ANet’s logic.

MikaHR.1978:

Ehm, 1 question:

What exactly is now gated that wasnt gated before?

There was plenty of stuff gated before, now we have more gating with April and September’s Feature Packs.

Some Examples:

• Elite used to unlock at level 30, now it is level 40.

• Traits used to be level 10, now it’s level 30.

• Personal Story unlocks at lvl 10 instead of at the beginning.

Relevant:

If you want to succeed in China, make your game more competitive

The Gating makes a lot more sense when you are trying to design a “competition” for players to run through and overcome the Dev placed obstacles.

Personally, if I wanted that type of environment, I’d play an FPS.

Gating…the word has been used a lot these days in the forums.

I started using it back during the time that Ascended Tier and Fractals were being introduced. I didn’t like the blatant nature of it; it’s all about the execution.

The GW2 Devs appear to really love using gating as the hammer for every nail they see in the game.

They really need to find other tools to use. Running into barriers every time you “turn around” in game is not very fun.

Remember, fun?

Gating is everywhere in various forms:

• NPC Vendor/Bank/Ranger Pet location availability

• Dungeon Design (not just Fractals)

• Personal Story

• Achievements

• Map design and throttling

• Trait Acquisition

• Skills/Abilities Unlocks

• Profession design elements (ie. weapon combinations, armor types, etc.)

• The Skill Bar

NOTE: It’s not that “Gating” is wrong or doesn’t work, it certainly does and is a valid game design practice. But, one can have too much of a good thing.

Gating has to be used appropriately and judiciously; and it needs to conform to certain “rules”:

Games are defined by consistent sets of rules and patterns of behavior; one of the strengths of the human mind is that it’s adept at detecting patterns. Thus the rules need to maintain a naturalism that’s consistent and predictable – but not too much so – within the context of the game world.

The balance between systems and believability can be struck in the systems space, Gaynor believes. Designers build stories with a beginning, middle and end, and they’re designed to be experienced in order. Suspension of disbelief is broken when players are allowed to break that order, thus progression gating is necessary – however, too overt gating, or that which interrupts the naturality of the environment, also breaks belief.

…“Player tool gating is very powerful,” he says. “Do you want to define a predictable path through a space that is not linear? Do you want to allow your player to define their own goals in opening new areas that you don’t give them directly? If this is an approach you find interesting, it can put a lot of power into the player’s hands to progress through the world using the world’s rules.”

Source: PRACTICE: Irrational’s Gaynor On Better Storytelling, Player Freedom Through Gating

Obviously, I see gating as something that intentionally implemented to inhibit the player; I can understand why this is can be necessary, the problem lies in the over-usage of the practice.

Just log into a WvW Map and take a look at how relatively difficult it is to get from your Border Keep to where the “action” is.

You will undoubtedly notice big windy roads, stretches of unscalable walls and high cliffs with large drop offs; these things aren’t there by accident. They serve as a throttle to keep players from “rushing” the play field.

Completely understandable design element…and yet, more and more such a practice is becoming the prevalent means to control the Player in GW2.

GW2, may I remind you, was nominally touted to be the game that would liberate the Player from the stale MMO models of yesteryear.

I can roll with the punches, change happens, back pedals do occur…but maybe the Devs can find other tools to use?

Please, back off on the gating, the Trait Changes of April nearly ruined the game for me, I say “nearly” very specifically because the jury is still officially out until I level another 80.

Such things create an adversarial situation between Players and Devs, especially when existing game systems are revised to introduce gating. No one like to have their toys taken away and locked up but this becoming a common occurrence in GW2.

Ohoni.6057:

Ok, some other stuff missing from that list:

• Replacing the missing profession mechanics UI for the Elementalist, Engineer, and Guardian professions

• Offhand weapon not unlocking until level 7

• Weapon Swapping not unlocking until level 15

• Utilities 7, 8, 9, and 0 not unlocking until levels 13, 24, 35, and 40 respectively

• Underwater combat not unlocking until level 8, underwater skill 5 not unlocking until level 23

• Most juvenile pets missing from starting zones

• Mechanics of many early heart quests reduced to make them more boring.

• Apples missing from apple orchard

I may still be missing a few, but fixing those need to be a priority as well.

Hey! Those aren’t bugs, they’re features!

Yes, this is annoying…it took me a while to figure out wth was going on…kept looking through the tabs.

Bhawb.7408:

It is good advice. You can either have minions constantly despawn because you demand to use a bugged trait, or you unequip the trait until its fixed.

I don’t think pretending a broken Trait is “alright” or acceptable is the way to go. Bringing it up, berating and calling attention to the issue seems far more practical from the standpoint of Official Forum Posting.

Sure, in game, why use a broken Trait if it will cause you grief? But sticking one’s head in the sands when it comes to communication with ANet is not helpful.

The game already forces its players to play the margins of “fun” far too often, everyone has a limit to what they can ignore or shrug off.

Not like ANet has a very good track record of putting players at ease with simple acknowledgement and validation.

Bhawb.7408:

Feel free to equip the trait, but don’t complain when the trait functions in a known manner and you can fix the problem yourself by just not equipping a completely unnecessary trait. …It’ll be fixed when its fixed. Until then, you know the consequences of using the trait.

Duh!

Come on! If it’s a bug, and it is, let’s not even pretend what you have stated is helpful in anyway. It’s enough to say that it is an ACKNOWLEDGED Bug.

FotM is an awesome Trait that has been broken, it needs fixed.

Been having the same issues when I change to Minion builds. All or most Minions will despawn. This happens frequently in Orr for no discernible reasons other than “sub-area transition” perhaps.

Isn’t this related to a Minion Trait Bug? Flesh of the Master and anything that changes impacts stats of the player character causes Minion despawn?

Calling someone a Troll because they are Trolls is absolutely fine.