Guild Wars 2

Algreg.3629:

warherox.7943:

The fights were more annoying than anything. One shot mechanics don’t make it challenging.

ah, once again tales of the mystical “real” difficulty, hidden away in the land past the twin rainbows…

I’ll leave this here:

Bubi.7942:

About the trial and error learning method, meh, I don’t mind. I’m an old gamer, learned in Super Mario Bros that jumping on the spiked procupine things kills you the same way. One death, lesson learned. And death is not even as slightly as punishing here as there.

I guess I just wished that GW2 would be more like Morrowind/Skyrim and less like Super Mario Bros. when it comes to challenges.

Rendering the player dead, impotent, trapped via mechanics should be used in small doses, but ANet has been rather liberal in the applications of late.

Artificially lengthening a battle via long periods of invulnerability doesn’t mean it’s more fun (IMO) especially in a game where different professions with varying build types are placed in the encounters “cold”.

Also, consider that Traits are no longer as accessible to newer characters now, so players are running around at 80 with only certain Trait lines fleshed out. So changing tactics may be less successful if a player has settled into just one general build.

I really despise the glut of all this “rare” and inexplicably account bound crafting materials clogging up my bank slots that I can’t use for anything.

Even the Mawdrey option is laughable and does not address the problem.

ANet, just stop!

Also stop adding crafting stuff to the game that’s not been properly categorized and just sit in inventory without a respective crafting bank slot.

EotM is only “popular” because time spent relative to rewards is very attractive to most players. EotM is popular for the reason that fast food joints are popular.

As a person who loved WvW but felt it was being ignored and largely unDEVeloped; I think EotM has made the situation worse. EotM would have served better as a Living Story zone map or other PvE style diversion.

Regular WvW is far more desolate and rewarding, the effort and time does not justify the results because the WvW maps are stagnant, repetitive and not engaging.

EotM, while being highly repetitive as well, offsets this with greater stream of reward compensation.

WvW needs more grit and more visceral action. DAoC and Warhammer Online had far more engaging and exciting Keep Sieges and Defenses in my opinion.

The Keeps in GW2 are simply too large to defend, but why bother anyway? Avoiding enemy players is far more rewarding in terms of efficiency.

Player versus Objective. It’s not WvW PvP, it’s PvO

Iason Evan.3806:

Mine bugged out after I got all my friends. It said to go to the middle of the instance and there was a wrench there but Rox never broke through the vines. I logged out and back in and it reset the instance. I’m taking a break and coming back.

I had glitches as well. The blinking circle was just misleading, also I was able to walk through a vine barricade that Rox hadn’t cleared for me…this seemed to be unintended.

Bubi.7942:

Just curious: what wasn’t telegraphed?

Most everything in GW2 is more puzzle than obstacle; or more accurately, the obstacles like bosses are puzzles.

What this means is that the player has to “learn” by failing in order to find the pattern or logic; or achieve that knowledge by other means like Wiki, guides or videos.

Think of this example:

• Access to a secret room is locked via a door with a unknown 4-digit combination…

• Player can try to guess the code but will get killed each time he/she guesses it incorrectly.

Now, nothing so far is unusual, but most games will provide in-game means to reduce the grief of such challenges by either:

• Hiding the combination in a nearby area.

• Using in-game context to relay the solution to the observant player.

More often than not, GW2 doesn’t do this, it relies on someone finding a solution then doing a video about it or updating a Wiki entry.

The same goes for Boss fights and some Jumping Puzzles, the mechanics are inexplicable and require a similar “learning” curve.

I think games should be self-contained in regards to solutions without requiring player death to always be part of the trial and error.

Clever is great, but being obtuse by design…not so much. If the player can’t understand why he/she died or if it was a glitch or a bug; that’s a good sign that some important information was not telegraphed properly by the designers of the game encounter.

Having completed the latest LS Chapter, I was excited to try out the “group” Labyrinth. I had no reason to suspect that insta-death mobs would be running amok.

I find such design elements cheap and non-fun.

I wish we had TERA (pre-BAM nerf) combat….

Nephilim.1986:

20 mins getting 1-shotted by bosses until I’m naked. Getting thrown against bosses with ‘secrets’ where I don’t know what I’m supposed to do, when I’m supposed to do it and how? It isn’t a challenge, it’s a frustrating waste of time. I’m out.

I think he’s talking about Boss Mechanics in the LS in general. some crap makes no “logical sense” or fails to adequately telegraph solutions to the the player. Inexplicable death as part of the “learning” experience is not a great game feature in my opinion.

Of course, I usually end up alt-tabbing and reading wiki/guide/youtube for such silly things…they are still a PITA though.

Overall, I’m not overly fond of arcade game mechanics being introduced into MMO’s; GW2 appears to implement such things quite often. The Tangled Labyrinth certainly falls into that annoying category; I appreciate that ANet made the “dungeon” optional. (Too bad the silly key is account bound.)

I been playing games since the first arcade opened up in my town back in 84; I never enjoyed sudden death games but those were the only ones out at the time.

My true enjoyment started about the time we were able to save progress in a game; it is especially why I like persistent worlds like MMO’s.

I’m sure some players find the Labyrinth’s arcade style fun, but I suspect the “fun” is more in the completion and less in the doing.

Q: When is insta-death in a game fun?

A: Not often, if ever.

It’s cheap and harkens back to a time when games had far less complex programming.

I’d like to see more of the UI customization that the original GW had in regards to re-sizing and placement of UI elements.

As for the XP bar, it is always nice to have more options, perhaps just shrinking it down and attaching it underneath the player frame would be a good alternative.

Neptune.2570:

If WvW is dead, the community killed it, not anet.
How can there be different outcomes and new fights each week when every server is tier locked because we, as a community, have stacked servers so much.

So, who manages and devised the “tier” system? Is that the “player’s” fault as well?

Maybe getting back to basics instead attempting to morph an open world PvP system into a tiered tournament?

Open world relies on rivalries and a sense of representation, there’s very little of that in the current system because we fight nameless enemies in a what is essentially a random rotation; a few organized teams can dominate such a competition simply by settling into particular server groups.

Sube Dai.8496:

Kuldebar.1897:

Sube Dai.8496:

You must be new here. Before eotm wvw had already descended into a karma train. Frankly eotm saved wvw by removing all the people who just want to k-train.

That’s a neat and tidy story, but although it is true that regular WvW could be distilled to the “train” paradigm prior to EotM, EotM has taken it all to a new all full freakin level.

And, yes, there’s plenty wrong about WvW other than the EotM’s inception.

Yes but so what. The people in EOTM don’t want to do regular WvW. So why do you want to force them to do it?

EOTM was not what any of us wanted it to be, but a particular group of people have grown to love it so good for them.

The rest of us still want updates for regular WvW, but destroying EOTM is not the answer.

I agree, but the genie has left the building; while you may want the golden goose, there’s a robot across the street that lays them by the dozen!

Sube Dai.8496:

You must be new here. Before eotm wvw had already descended into a karma train. Frankly eotm saved wvw by removing all the people who just want to k-train.

That’s a neat and tidy story, but although it is true that regular WvW could be distilled to the “train” paradigm prior to EotM, EotM has taken it all to a new all full freakin level.

And, yes, there’s plenty wrong about WvW other than the EotM’s inception.

uberkingkong.8041:

Matter of fact people that play EotM are better than people who play on borderlands, they are more likely to capture something over a borderland commander who usually wipes trying to capture something simple like a tower.

Umm, better because they avoid fighting enemy players?

Yes, capturing an objective that’s actually being defended is an order of magnitude more difficult and can result in failure as compared to taking one with just NPC’s guarding it.

I’d hardly use that as a criteria to determine that EotM “people are better” o.O

Although “after thought” maybe an over statement in regards to WvW design; I have always been bothered by the generic nature of it: cloned maps, server named enemies and the over all “disconnect” that the Mists Wars has to the game world.

I inevitably bring up Dark Ages of Camelot, the Frontiers felt like they belonged in the game; they were organic, tangible and cogent parts of the game’s geography. More importantly, the borderlands were unique to your faction and provided diversity.

Of course, ANet decided to forgo factions and instead chose to make it server based, but while extremely practical it is less than satisfying on basic fundamental levels like “realm pride” and a sense of identity and unity.

With the implementation of EotM, WvW was short circuited. Yes, I use EotM heavily because a rational gamer will choose the most efficient means to progress; but I am “grown up” enough to call it for what it is: Karma/Badge/XP/Loot Train with slight chances of PvP…

WvW as a whole has failed on multiple levels:

• Overly sadistic and frustrating map designs:

Yes, we understand ANet wants to stall a player trying to return to the fight, but the sheer amount of map obstacles (sheer walls, switch backs, access locations on opposite direction from approach, etc.) only serves to keep the player away from actually engaging in the activity of WvW.

• Keeps, Castles are fairly trivial, disposable and not worth defending:

First, why bother to defend? Flipping just makes for a faster paced net gain. Defending is boring and rarely, if ever, successful. Once the gate or walls have been breached, it’s unlikely that a relative few defenders will be able to make a meaningful stand with in the fortification, which is different than the real world counterparts.

Fortifications were historically designed to allow for a relatively small group of defenders to slow down or block a larger forces via bottlenecks; where are these bottlenecks in WvW fortresses?

They ain’t there…so why bother to be steam-rolled and outflanked in your own Keep/Castle? The enemy has easy access to the chewy center once the perimeter is breached.

• There are far too many objectives making them less important and less likely enemies will actually engage each other:

Lose the supply camps, any tactician worth their salt knows you don’t leave your precious supplies laying about in an unfortified camp. Time to move supply depots to the Keeps and Castles!

Sure, the Dolyak Caravans can still run the routes between major forts and smaller outposts, but they should be able to be lootable by enemy players for supplies when the Caravan is destroyed. (We need less, but more important and interesting objectives in WvW.

• Zerg is the way, the only way:

This is too bad, it shouldn’t be this way. We want Zergs and we also want smaller, functionally practical groups. Yes, we currently call them “Roamers” now but they are fringe dwellers picking off stragglers and caravans without much to show for it.

In DAoC a small group could be a formidable obstacle at choke points like the Mile Gates or tunnels and ruins. Small groups could also capture Keep Towers which were crucial for keeping supply lines open which were necessary for advancement. This, in turn, spawned the need for Realms to field their own small “hunter-killer” groups to keep the marauders at bay, small group versus group battles actually took place.

Large groups meant for large battles in the open terrain when the armies were traveling between the difficult but desirable objectives like Castles and Relic Keeps.

At present, WvW is heavily weighted towrd the Zerg due to the flippant nature of the objectives design.

Siobhan.3582:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/I-thought-the-new-map-was-just-for-overflow/first#post3599488

I called this out 9 months ago when they rolled out EOTM.

I thought the new map was just for overflow?

Of course the forum software attempts to dissuade me from posting on such an old topic, god forbid we have any historical perspective when it comes to GW2 discussion, might be why ANet keeps making the same types of missteps.

Those who ignore the past are always ready to relive it.

So how is that new “WvW” overflow working out?

My Guardian is level 70, he’ll soon be my second 80 leveled primarily with EotM.

Mission accomplished?

Zaxares.5419:

I agree! We should be able to hire extremely powerful PvE mercenaries for a big enough gold sink! Like, if your server pays 1000g, you get to hire the Legendary Sand Giant to stroll up to the enemy Keep and capture it all by himself. (He then sits in there to defend it.)

For 10,000g, you can hire the Triple Headed Wurm to attack 3 Keeps/SMC at once. Just like PvE, all 3 heads must be killed at the same time or he just respawns at full health.

Yes, yes, this is a PERFECT idea.

You might be onto something!

Maybe these high level mercs/Heroes can be recruited for gold in the new guild halls that will be implemented.

The weaker heroes would be like upgraded Keep Lords and the stronger more expensive ones would be world Boss in difficulty.

Opposing sides could have a pitched battle between the juggernauts which could be spawned out of little orbs that would be part of a guild “collection”..

The idea of course, is that you got to get them all in your collection to unlock the final Merc Boss.

WvW needs reworking, and I am not opposed to radical map redesign, but please let us not have ANYMORE WvW maps added! There is already too much dilution of the players across ridiculously larges map instances PLUS whatever the hell EotM is supposed to be!(EotM is great for XP, Karma, Badges and loot though)

ANet, please copy paste the Frontiers from DAoC into the Mists, kk thanks. Three realms, one map joined at the center.

NiloyBardhan.9170:

Why this is even implemented in the first place is beyond me. Discourages defense and promotes karma training.

Almost everyone posted against this in another thread and they still implemented it….lol

Giving details about for a suggested change is better than saying “I don’t like it.” If you can say why, and give a proposed fix, that’s very useful to the team.

;)

Pinkamena Diane Pie.8054:

Yes. Why? Because you are not level 80, you are so much more easier to kill by enemies.
If you are easier to kill, it means any downed enemies will be rallied faster, meaning more work for the rest of the group who have to kill them again.

Except that the opposing side will also have their share of up-leveled players so it’s simplistic to view this as a detriment to one-side and not the other.

Additionally, it’s highly unlikely that ANY fight will be overturned due to a RALLY, not saying it can’t happen but that is something far more likely to happen in a closed PvP environment like matches.

Also, if up-leveled players are so weak, then maybe ANet needs to address that as an issue, they did design it so any level player can participate, after all.

Also consider that players of whatever experience are not running around with a full compliment of Trait Points and Traits anymore which makes for a much wider gap between level 80 and up-level players.

Thank you ANet!

Tristan.7430:

My suggection is remove Edge of Mists from map selection and make it only accesible when you are in que on borderland/EB map. After que poped you should be kicked from EotM.

Have you really thought about that?

I mean who is going to invest any effort in something if you will get yanked from it at some random point? Also, it’s very rare to have queues anymore in WvW, I’ve only noticed them at tournament phase changes, EotM however is nearly always on overflow.

Your suggestion is horrible.

ANet needs to do some simple reasoning by starting with a simple question:

• why is EotM as popular as it is? (that should be rather easy to ascertain)

I love EotM for the karma/badge train and experience and PHAT lewt.

But I also love cheesecake and could probably eat a whole one in a single sitting but even that becomes a task when silly players try to have a meaningful PvP-type experience, I mean come on, how dare we engage the enemy, we got NPC’s to kill and loot!

We rely on ANet to maintain the integrity of game systems, they have failed with EotM. Not because EotM is bad, it’s because it is largely at odds with another part of the in-game system.

So, ANet, either crap or get off the pot, regular WvW needs to get a revamp or EotM needs to grow up and become a real facet of WvW and not a “queue waiting room” (lol-effin-lol) stocked with a wet-bar and free peanuts!

Giltheryn.8603:

Next to a Charr for scale. I would have included it in the OP, but I don’t think the forum allows multiple attachments.

How do we know that isn’t just a mini by the regular chicken?

Hmm, I play WvW and clear Toxic Creature camps, so no, the finishers aren’t “pointless” they are kind of cool. I have about 300+ each.

Melanie checked the readings one more time before sending the command sequence to the ship’s computer. Her solitary vigil was on its fifty-third day and it thankfully would be the last watch of this very long journey. Dwayna Avery was scheduled to take the next ninety day shift but it would no longer be required; their destination was only six days away. Six days away and humanity would have a new home on a planet that still remained wholly unexplored and enigmatic but for one overriding certainty; the capability of harboring life from Earth.

Melanie swiveled slowly in the command chair and surveyed the eight cryo-pods glistening in the spotlights. One of the pods, being hers, was currently empty while the remaining seven contained her fellow mission members.

The eight of them were charged with ensuring that the one hundred and fifty thousand colonists arrived safely upon the new world. The second half of the mission charter involved getting the colonists set on a path of self sufficiency in order to increase the likelihood of their long term viability.

Melanie as the mission’s Biotech Officer was well versed in nearly all the ship systems, efficiently processed her last checklist item. She quickly punched up a status update on the mission crew. The results flared up on the ODP in the Ankh System’s usual blue colors.

Melanie Drew
Position: Mission BioTechnology Systems Officer
BioAge: 63
Health: +Nominal Active
=
Arthur Balthazar
Position: Mission Tactical Officer
BioAge: 28
Health: +Nominal CryoStasis
=
Dwayna Avery
Position: Mission Chief & Medical Officer
BioAge: 43
Health: +Nominal CryoStasis
=
Alyssa Grayson
Position: Mission Morale Officer
BioAge: 27
Health: +Nominal CryoStasis
=
Andrew Donovan
Position: Mission Intelligence Systems Officer
BioAge: 48
Health: +Nominal CryoStasis
=
Benjamin Dumas
Position: Cryogenic Systems Officer
BioAge: 33
Health: +Nominal CryoStasis
=
Grantham Melchior
Position: Cryogenic & Embyronic Sustainment Technician
BioAge: 19
Health: +Nominal CryoStasis
=
Ilysa Grayson
Position: Psychologist
BioAge: 27
Health: +Nominal CryoStasis
=

As she finished the last system check, Melanie relaxed her concentration and willed her mind to wander.
It would be another day before the activation protocol would commence on the rest of mission members. The next stage of the mission would be the most challenging one. The sheer amount of work would have the team active through day and night cycles as they initiated the systems that would prepare their human cargo for arrival on the planet’s surface.

Settlement areas were already mapped out, so the true focus would be the building and growth of the colony with the methodical care necessary to guarantee humanity’s survival. Nothing could be rushed, but neither could anything be delayed; there was simply too much to accomplish if the mission didn’t remain on schedule.

The planet itself was vast with land masses far larger than Earth’s. Of far more interest to Melanie was the confirmed and prolific existence of sentient life on the planet. Hundreds of sentient races, it had been an amazing revelation. All the more so because none of the races seemed to have achieved any high degree of technology. This would give humanity the upper hand, and the mission would need every advantage it could get.

As the oldest person on board, she felt a momentary pang of weariness at the thought. It was purely emotional of course, biologically she was in perfect health thanks to extensive gene therapy. AGT had long ago eliminated most age related maladies for those who were fortunate enough to undergo the process.

All the mission crew had been treated largely due to the fact that the scheduled mission duration was far longer than a normal human lifespan. For ninety-five percent of the human cargo, including the frozen embryos, the therapy had been limited to only genetic filtering to weed out any major health anomalies.

Melanie, unlike Dwayna and the Grayson twins, had no family members on board. Dwayna had her brilliant son; Grantham, serving as a member of the crew. Dwayna’s husband, civilian Henry Melchior, was in deep stasis on board as well. While the Grayson sisters, Ilysa and Alyssa were the only twins on board, they were unique in many other ways as well.

Melanie considered the mission team to be her family, she had known most of them all their lives and acted as a mother figure to them as they grew up at the academy.
The command deck lights slowly dimmed as Melanie drifted off to sleep in the reclined chair, any detected problems would sound tell-tales to awaken her. As sleep overcame her, the full realization of the mission ahead weighed heavily upon her thoughts but even those eventually gave way to peace and a sense of hope.

It’s an annoyance and could use a little reduction in some areas.

I recall Rift had a similar situation earlier on with mob aggro radius and insta-dismounting of players when attacked, they scaled back some things and it made all the difference.

+1 for Bulbasaur

When I log into LA I get dc’ed after a minute or so, can’t access bank, etc.

First off, good job, ANet!

I love the festival and how the various multi-path achievements and items/outfits are approachable goals across various player styles . My Necro looks awesome in his newly dyed outfit!

The Mad King’s Labyrinth is very fun, I like the fact that I can solo, group and zerg depending on the activity level. (I’d like to see more public dungeons with similar designs added to the game.)

It is true that I usually come to the forums to gripe or complain, but I am playing GW2 because it is entertaining and engaging; thank you ANet for that!

-K

It’s not a subscription game. The criteria for “active” is technically running the launcher and launching the game…which would serve no purpose. Any stricter criteria would not go well for any party involved.

revodeel.2651:

People who take the time to explain their opinions and back them up with reasoned points should have those opinions considered, for sure. But again, mindless whining should be dismissed for what it is. I’m willing to bet the devs can tell the difference just like we can.

I’ve read the posts, the short rants of little worth all the way up to the lengthy posts detailing flaws and observations; the Trait Thread alone is nearing 60 pages and it is not all “mindless whining”.

Yes, and if thousands of posts on various subjects that persist for months and result in little to nothing from ANet, what then should we properly conclude?

revodeel.2651:

No. Whining is whining. The fact that people keep “QQing” means they like to whine. There is a difference between QQing and constructive criticism.

Constructive criticism is something I’m sure Anet welcomes (as they should).

Yeah, the attitude referenced in that line of thought is what gives the so-called “fan-boys” a bad reputation for a number of reasons:

• It’s biased heavily on the dubious position that Devs & game companies can do no wrong, truth is, they get a lot wrong all the time if you pay attention to gaming history

• It ignores the specific merits of the issue by discounting criticisms and bottling all the “whines” into “one bottle”

• Constructive criticism sounds reasonable, but often is not even applicable; example: in the case of the gold/gem conversion change…I guess don’t FREAKIN’ change it in the first place would have been constructive, but that’s about as close as you can get.

• Calling other people who take the time to explain their opinions and back them up with reasoned points should not be called “whiners”, especially when it is rather plain that the name callers show no interest in understanding the problem people are having.

The “mentality” has been the bane of MMO’s for a very long time now. It insinuatesand pervades dungeon runs, PvP and group events of various kinds.

It’s poison in regards to fun and escapism because it turns the player activities into process and formula, little factories of output: gold, XP, karma, keys, etc.

When did that become engaging gameplay?

I’m not denying or even disagreeing that many players love the thrill of min/maxing, optimizing gains and all that…I just wish that not every MMO under the sun ended up down that same street.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Ask for what you want all you want, but don’t use the NPE as a shame club. It’s disingenuous at best.

The NPE was far more than just the nice little boxes that popped up when you leveled and gave you rewards, it was a total revision of the leveling progression in how stats gains were distributed from level 1 through 80.

Yes, the more glaring level locked abilities were fixed in post-feature pack patches but the clunky progression system still remains in effect which is further compounded by the out of sync, unpolished, tacked on Trait Acquisition system from April.

This distinctly impacts “veteran” players in terms of rolling and leveling alts because it has radically changed the leveling experience by taking away the enjoyment factor.

Here’s some possibilities I gave in my /r/GuildWars2/ post:

• Elite Trait Capture system:

Well, Traits are somewhat mangled now, but the original GW style Elite Trait hunt was definitely a good idea, unfortunately ANet decided on (rather lazily) just piggy-backing/splicing all the Traits into existing content.

• Additional Weapon/Profession combinations:

This would add some spice to post-80 play, but it’s all in how it would be implemented, of course. I could see the acquisition of a new weapon skill lines be tied to unique challenges or events or dungeons.

• Cross Profession Trait Line Hybrids:

How about each existing Profession after 80 gets the opportunity to swap out one or two predesignated (balance checked) Trait Lines with another Profession? Again, the devil is in the details of how a character gains such an unlock. Making the challenge fun is what good game development is all about!

• More attention to WvW improvements:

Wide open topic that’s somewhat muddled with EotM at present, but many players think that WvW has been relatively underdeveloped over the past two years.

While this is not “post-80” per se, it would be a plus up for players who would like WvW to be their chosen end-game experience. Making WvW more engaging, varied and dynamic would be a great improvement.

• More Dungeons/Community Dungeons:

Another wide open topic, generally speaking: simply add more dungeons and more variety. I would also like to see Darkness Falls-style (pvp and/or non-pvp) dungeons or open dungeon designs that have their own event cycles and challenges. SAB…

• More World Boss Events on Random Timers:

Nothing wrong with predictable World Bosses, I can see why some players need/want them; but let’s add some controlled chaos into the mix and have mobile and marauding World Bosses on random somewhat slow build event timers.

Make them scary tough and challenging and thus rewarding. This would encourage players to reach out to other players for help. The boss difficulty could either scale with the number of players or be coded to go back to its secluded “lair” if they are not vanquished after a certain period of time.

• A Comprehensive Guild versus Guild (GvG) System:

It’s GUILD Wars, it’s time. Not specifically post-80, but it addresses a role currently unaddressed.

• More Unique Skins tied to New Events, Dungeons or Challenges:

No brainer, keeps people interested.

• Comprehensive Legendary system that includes Armor:

Waiting for the other Legendary shoes to drop…two years now.

Danikat.8537:

GW1 didn’t have an official forum at all. Developers still managed to be aware of players thoughts and opinions and factored them in to changes or ignored them as they felt was appropriate.

I was a moderator on GWGuru in those days, ANet was very good at interfacing publicly (largely thanks to Gaile Gray’s involvement) via multiple higher profile fan sites. I recall there were about 10-12 sites regularly seeing an ANet presence.

It worked.

Curiously, it’s been a detriment that ANet ever got into the “official” forum business. I’m sure control was the attractive idea, but it has chilled open and honest and intentional communication between devs and players.

Great summation. I would add that the new trait system cheapens the overall level experience because it encourages the player to reach 80 as soon as possible (usually via zerg activities like EotM).

Acquiring the Traits is much easier to do at level 80 in full exotics; it’s not something efficiently undertaken while leveling.

killcannon.2576:

Here’s the thing…..it isn’t failing.

It didn’t fail with the uproar over Ascended, “Anet is turning GW2 into a WoW clone!!!”.

It didn’t fail because of the Living World/Story.

Au contraire!

Ascended Tier was the very first piece of the sky to fall, followed by Fractal reset, Trait Acquisition changes and Level Progression changes…quite a few chunks there coming down.

(Please remember that in the original Chicken Little story…Chicken Little dies horribly)

But if the sky falling is far too dramatic for you, let’s go with the proverbial black-eye; by every account the announcement of Ascended Tier was a black-eye for ANet.

It was something that sprung out of nowhere on the community just two months after the game’s release and it effectively ended the honeymoon period for the GW2.

But the hits have just kept on coming after that and ANet has never adequately addressed the number one issue on the forums from 2012: the post 80 experience.

There were plenty of options:

- Elite Trait Capture system

- New Weapon/Profession combinations

- Possible Cross Profession Trait Line Hybrids

- More attention to WvW improvements

- More Dungeons

- More World Boss Events on Random Timers

- A Guild versus Guild System

- More Unique Skins tied to New Events, Dungeons or Challenges

- Comprehensive Legendary system that includes Armor

These are some of things that could have quieted the forums to some degree, yet ANet decided to yank out existing/working systems in the game and reinvent the wheel.

The leveling progression to 80 was one of the most praised elements that GW2 had to offer and in one fell swoop it was radically altered. Attributes now arrive in uneven chunks, causing peaks and valleys of power. The whole ebb and flow of the game changed, not just for the first few levels but all the way to 80.

Compounding it further was a Trait System that got nearly everything wrong.
A particular task to unlock a Trait is required to be completed, or alternatively pay the vendor for the unlock; doesn’t sound too bad…

But the relatively hefty sum of skill points and coin to unlock particular traits can be a damper on many a player. (43 Gold + 360 Skill Points for all 65 traits)

If you can’t afford the vendor, than unlocking Traits for the appropriate level will often require you to travel to Zone Maps that may be 10+ levels or more higher than your current level. (The Tasks have no logical connection to the Trait it unlocks.)

Lastly, some Tasks are tied to either bugged, difficult group, WvW or Jumping Puzzle events.

So, yes, eventually when Chicken Little stops breathing, it will get quiet.

HHR LostProphet.4801:

That however doesn’t take away the fact that they destroyed something working. And while you say you want it removed rather than improved later on, I don’t buy into destroying something you can’t fix immediately.
.

^
And that is the underlying point which I find important and relevant.

If you are going to take a working, functional system or element out of the game, some assurance should be made that it will be replaced with something as equally functional, or just don’t do it! Don’t be in a rush push it to the ’live" server.

Rushing such things out hurts the game and appears to have a particularly bad track record when it comes to community acceptance.

• Ascended Gear…has never been finished or rounded out, it was pushed out two months after game release.

• Fractals: this dungeon treadmill was pushed out and then later “rethought”, resulting in a Fractal Reset which hit some players rather hard.

• Traits Acquisition Changes in April 2014: What many players were hoping to be a new line of Elite Traits that could be hunted in various challenges throughout the game world became a complete hijacking of the Core Traits into a messy, out of sync bizarre system we currently have.

• NPE: Talk about using a sledge hammer to kill a fly! A total and clunky revision of the entire level progression experience of the game, the one area which from DAY ONE was vaunted as the game’s strong suit by players and reviewers alike.

GW2 Myth-busters Episode 1

Cuddy.6247:

Welcome to Guild Wars 2!

I didn’t mind the NPE changes, still don’t. It’s a better experience for new players and will likely have better retention – people who argue against it seem either lazy, disingenuous or crazy – or any combination of the three.

But the development team does seem to spend quite some time “fixing what ain’t broke” so to speak. Or their ideas don’t go through enough ringers and internal testing and what is provided is no different than what was there earlier except, well, it’s something different with the same results. It seems a bit crazy and wasteful but I won’t bother questioning their business practices.

I see you like to ride the fence, not rock the boat and not choose sides, how very daring and ultimately equivocating of you!

Curiously, you “notice” that “fixing what ain’t broke” is something ANet has been prone to do,;yet you discount such concerns and even go as far as pronouncing players who took issue with such changes as being “either lazy, disingenuous or crazy”…

You seem to have reached in the span of two paragraphs a conclusion that flies in the face of consistency and logic! Congratulations!

Healix.5819:

Kuldebar.1897:

How does one “un-sub” or formally “quit” playing GW2 in such a way that ANet could survey such a demographic?

You request a refund.

Pretty sure that ship has sailed for most players of the game and equally sure that it is not an applicable alternative to most players. Perversely, if you want to restructure your whole playing experience based on “10 thousand” players who quit somewhere before level 15 and ignore the supposed millions who stuck around until 80…well I question the sanity of the development team

Vrita.7846:

They didn’t delete them…there was a feature pack back in April that introduced the wardrobe system, so they removed the old versions of the town clothes you bought for the new ones you can wear in combat, go talk to the Black Lion Armor Trader and they’ll give you the new ones.

I’m pretty sure you will get “town-clothes tonics”, which aren’t quite the same and for some strange reason was not incorporated into the wardrobe system.

How does one “un-sub” or formally “quit” playing GW2 in such a way that ANet could survey such a demographic?

I mean, I “quit” for over 6 months after the Ascended Tier announcement…yet here I am. I even gave my opinion, freely, no survey required, right here on the forums…got infracted for it, but there it was for the world to see, well til it was deleted.

I suppose it wasn’t as pretty a metric as a survey result of yes or no questions…

I have taken breaks from the game, but I return because I still have fun doing things in a game that I enjoy: combat, gear decisions, customizing looks, “questing”, exploration…basically all the things I do in an RPG with a world of complete strangers added to the mix.

The problem as I see it (and have seen developing since about two months after release) is that the things I enjoy are getting taken away or buried under stuff that the “carrot-chasers” are constantly begging for, and ANet seems to be providing.

Look no further than the changes of April with Traits, how’s that for more grind? That should slow those pesky carrot-chasers down keep them distracted for a while.

Yeah, but for me, such things are not so good.

The new system has shifted the game from what I used to enjoy to what I must do in order to enjoy it… the enjoyable ride to 80 has now been (IMO) negatively impacted with recent patches that have done nothing to improve the post-80 situation.

I still enjoy the game, but now in a much narrower range of activities, primarily I am now far more focused on getting to 80 as fast as possible (via EotM usually) so I can gear up in Exotics and start map completion and Trait Unlocking…things I used to enjoy doing while leveling to 80.

Once again, with apologies, because it really bears repeating I will let thescienceoflaw from /r/GuildWars2 address the “problem”:

Maybe the problem isn’t the MMO, maybe the problem is you. Maybe you need to examine the way you approach an MMO – many of you will spend hours playing a FPS with no progression because it is fun – and then you whine because spvp has no progression and say so “what incentive do I have to do spvp if I don’t get better gear?” (Actual statement I have heard).

Many of you will spend hours exploring the world in Skryim, doing tons of side-quests, and yet whine and complain because all there is to do in GW2 is explore the world and run dungeons and do events. That is like rushing to finish the storyline quests in Skyrim and then complaining that the game has almost no content.

Why can’t we as an MMO community take the attitude we bring to FPS games, RPG games, and apply it to an MMO? Too many kitten players feel like the only thing that motivates them in an MMO is the “carrot” of gear always being held out in front of them (and don’t know what to do with themselves without it) – and you are destroying the genre. You need to fix that kitten before you destroy the genre that we love.

We take the attitude of playing games for FUN in almost every other genre, so why can’t we do it for MMOs too?

SundayTrash.9562:

What is there left to do after hitting 80, and grinding up to about 10 legendary. Maybe I should move mmorpg that actually has endgame.

Let thescienceoflaw on /r/GuildWars2 address the OP’s “problem”:

Maybe the problem isn’t the MMO, maybe the problem is you. Maybe you need to examine the way you approach an MMO – many of you will spend hours playing a FPS with no progression because it is fun – and then you whine because spvp has no progression and say so “what incentive do I have to do spvp if I don’t get better gear?” (Actual statement I have heard).

Many of you will spend hours exploring the world in Skryim, doing tons of side-quests, and yet whine and complain because all there is to do in GW2 is explore the world and run dungeons and do events. That is like rushing to finish the storyline quests in Skyrim and then complaining that the game has almost no content.

Why can’t we as an MMO community take the attitude we bring to FPS games, RPG games, and apply it to an MMO? Too many kitten players feel like the only thing that motivates them in an MMO is the “carrot” of gear always being held out in front of them (and don’t know what to do with themselves without it) – and you are destroying the genre. You need to fix that kitten before you destroy the genre that we love.

We take the attitude of playing games for FUN in almost every other genre, so why can’t we do it for MMOs too?

Please note, this doesn’t exonerate ANet in any way, they still have to make a “fun” game but if we listen to carrot chasers, we will just get more grinds; after all, look what ANet did to the Trait System in April!

Labjax.2465:

So is buying gems to exchange them for gold a death knell then because it’s an admission that paying RL money is more attractive than spending hours farming to get the gold you need for an item?

By an order of magnitude or so lower, but yes, to a certain degree.

The variables will always have some people seek to skip a perceived “labor” activity for the end result if they perceive that to be more desirable, which they invariably do. But this is a type of poison, not fatal in small doses, but a poison nevertheless.

^ it’s like the experiment with the money bowl…it short circuits things and the game ends early.

Xae Isareth.1364:

Because their vision just didn’t work out. You got a vision, but you also have 300 people and their families’ mouths to feed, with a few million dollars stuck in the project.

At that point you have to make a rational decision.

Two months after game release was hardly a time of malnutrition and economic hardship for ANet. They had just sold record breaking numbers of “boxes” (read money in the bank) -hardly a time to switch off in another direction when the numbers weren’t even in yet.

Nope, someone panicked, decided to go the “safe” (read what every other MMO has done) route.

Perseverance is what makes original thinking matter.

Xae Isareth.1364:

^ Fun is a very ….fickle thing. Often what’s fun is drilled into you. The last decade pretty much associated fun in MMOs with the ‘endgame’.

Meh, so is porn, but supposedly we can all recognize it when we see it. Yes, humans are trained animals and once enveloped in the vast milieu of the echo chamber are very hard to extract.

Xae Isareth.1364:

Devs always talk about the endgame, players always worry about the endgame. Everyone focuses on the endgame. We’ve conditioned to try and reach the endgame ASAP, for years, in every MMO. So of course when you play a MMO, you just automatically go for the endgame.

Well, the ANets actually indicated that the whole game was “end-game”:

“When we looked at the concept of “endgame” for Guild Wars 2, we designed it the same way. We didn’t want the endgame to be something you could only experience after a hundred hours of gameplay or after you reached some arbitrary number. We wanted it to be something that players got to experience every step along the way, spread out across the entire world of Tyria, so we’ve introduced game elements that you’d normally associate with “endgame” at every level and every possible opportunity.”

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/the-endgame-reimagined/

So, my point is that they could have stuck to their plan, but instead went off the reservation and tried to cobble on the standard MMO style progression experience.