Is this thread about traits or NPE?
I think the NPE doesn’t really hinder new players only older players who really want to do PvP, the rest is something most people can live with (if they’re willing to admit it) – the trait changes effect all of us.
Why are you talking about the NPE, this thread is about Traits, please stick to the topic!
If Anet one day put a instant level 80 item on the gem store for 1000 gems. Would you throw your copy of GW2 out of the window or would you go ’that’s cool, saves me a lot of time.’?
It’s a deplorable idea and would serve as a death knell for the game.
It’s bad enough we have the level tomes already in the game, but instant 80’s would basically be an admission by ANet that they have screwed up the leveling progression so badly that skipping it entirely is an attractive thing to do even if it costs cash.
It’s crap like this that happens because gamers and developers fail to understand that either you have a common vertical progression MMO or you make a horizontal progression MMO, you do not try to do BOTH…you will fail because they are opposing systems.
Between making PVP not enter-able until level 22, to siege disablers (WVW BAND-AID), now this! Seriously ANET!? You’re taking what WAS a great game and “fixing” stuff that’s NOT broke. This one has to REALLY take the cake!
Just saying… you can still enter WvW and EotM using portals and the hotkey. I was in EOTM on a level 2 the other day.
That just makes it that much more senseless. Hiding things, that are still there is more likely create confusion, not reduce it if we are really concerned about “new players”.
Skill Point challenges are map hidden and disabled unless another player has already initiated a skill point encounter, then the under-level player can get credit.
Vistas are map hidden but achievable.
Many gather nodes were removed in addition to being map hidden…but entirely usable…
It’s a confusing inconsistent muddled mess that was perfectly fine before ANet changed it!
I elaborated in more detail on reddit, where discussion is a little less subjugated, but here’s my thoughts on the OP’s dilemma:
It underscores the seeming contradiction of playing a game while not actually being engaged enough to learn the game…which strikes me as both humorous and sad.
- Why doesn’t the “match my level” filter in the TP actually just match my level?
I think this is for the lower levels in-which many levels only have gear of one stat combo or rarity on the tp.
There’s still a customization filter, but I just suggest that “match my level” does exactly what it says it does, that’s all.
Just move the raw discussions over to reddit, not that it’s perfect but at least the site usability and sheer volume of opinionated posts makes for a lively time.
Wonderful topic and great questions OP. There are many more, I am sure.
GW2 hasn’t been holistically developed in the last 2 years, there’s a lot fragmentation of concepts and inconsistencies of design creeping into the game.
GW2 has a bunch of inexplicable and often inconsistent design elements.
- Why do some items (like Guild Banners or Skill Point Objects) have a pop up window and others don’t?
- Why make so many in-game items non-salvageable or non-vendor-able? (If you disable salvage on reward or loot item, just slap a 1 copper value to the item so it will at least show up in the vendor window)
- Why “streamline” Personal Stories but still have some of them send the player back and forth between zones just to talk?
- Why not just make the starter Profession custom gear (Engineer’s Backpack, Guardian’s Helm, etc.) items into skins, which would not require a transmutation points to use?
- Why doesn’t the “match my level” filter in the TP actually just match my level?
- Why can’t the game stop giving me Spoons I already have collected?
- Why are Collections (like Spoons) handled differently than other collections?
- Why does the new “helper” arrow insist on pointing out the nearest event instead of something more useful, like a Skill Point or Vista? (the priority is a problem when trying to clear maps)
- Why make NPC’s like the Battle Historian so hard to find (visually)? (Better yet, why require the player to have to visit the NPC in the first place?)
(edited by Kuldebar.1897)
All It says is unacceptable behavior. I just want to know how long in “blocked” for
Ah, so there was a “detail” after all, you had previously stated:
Its giving me zero details.
Check e-mail, see if you have any verification notices?
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/upcoming-events-in-guildwars2/
Exactly 1 month ago, they released their plans until the end of the year.
That’s the problem actually, ANet is great when it comes to blogged presentations which are very slick and exciting in the ever popular marketing corporate-speak way of communicating. Alas, the problem is that the shiny hype often camouflages the vagueness which lies at root of the problem.
Players are informed of a “new package” of changes coming out within two weeks or so; the devil is in the details though.
Variations on this theme have been staple since two after launch, we have seen it with the advent of Ascended Tier, Fractals Reset, Trait Unlocks, and the most recent Level Gating of Skills/Abilities.
There’s something wrong.
Either:
ANet is “testing” its intended changes using an overly small sampling of play-testers
Or:
ANet is just winging it on one-dimensional Metrics and a Prayer.
Sadly, a third possibility is that ANet isn’t being fully honest about the overall motivations of such changes.
I am hesitant to suggest it, but it would explain a lot. ANet could be having to cave into pressures based solely on the business side of the house.
Don’t misunderstand, no reasonable person should hold the maintenance and growth of profitability against any gaming company. However, there is a balance to be struck and better ways to introduce large scale changes on the player-base.
One basic rule to follow: keep pulling the carpet out from under your player-base to a minimum. Unfortunately, ANet seems to prefer the inverse.
Retooling GW2 to throttle player progression so that the average player has to jump through more hoops appears to be the common goal linking all the major changes that have roiled through the game.
Increasing gold sinks and time sinks also increases the probability that players will be exposed to more opportunities of spending money in the Gem Store.
This isn’t such a nefarious motivation, but when coupled with ANet’s established method of communicating its intentions along with a general reluctance to see that killing the goose is no way to secure the supply of golden eggs; it becomes a rather self-defeating endeavor.
Ascended Tier:
Players widely expressed concerns of a dearth of end-game progression opportunities, so instead of ANet implementing (let’s say) a fully fleshed bevy of “Elite Traits” and a engaging system of acquisition to the game; they gave us instead a dungeon treadmill (Fractals) and the poorly realized Ascended Tier.
Fractal Level +30 Reset:
Fractals became the new corridor of progression and plenty of players lined up and started grinding them out in the understandable confidence that ANet had adequately planned out the path ahead. Unfortunately, it had not.
ANet revised the entire system, and changed the rules.
I never had a dog in this fight, but it was another “thrashing” dev change inflicted on players that could be categorized as “major”.
Trait Unlock:
Players, still hungry for progression opportunities, clamored for something that the original Guild Wars had offered: Elite Skill Hunting/Acquisition.
It was a great idea that would allow the players at 80 to have a full spectrum of new and varied challenging (perhaps, ever-growing number of) opportunities to acquire NEW “elite” Traits to top off the existing core Trait lines.
Tone deaf as always, ANet decided to rework the ENTIRE Trait system as well into the introduced system. This changed the game in a fundamental way, I won’t delve into if it was good or bad; but let’s agree it was a HUGE game changer.
NPE’s Level Gating:
In response to a “dire” need to retain new players that presumably were quitting due to the game’s complexity, ANet added further layers of progression complexity.
Where once, an elegant and intuitive system existed, a clunky, inconsistent and plodding progression curve was introduced.
Stepped and widely spaced attribute gains led to some serious peaks and valleys in what had used to be a smooth progression.
Skills and abilities were level gated in off-putting and non-complimentary ways. (Example Off-hand usage and Weapon Swap)
Any player who knew better would immediately equip a 2h weapon ASAP so that they could mitigate the “nerf” of not having the benefits of two Sigils/enhancements.
What had been clear was now a confusing jumble of level caps and restrictions. Coupled with the Trait Unlock system…the change to the game was enormous for any leveling character.
What’s my point?
ANet needs to stop using the hammer on the game and start doing surgery, the patient can’t take much more.
We already have cloned, generic maps; can we at least get to see the names of our enemies in the game?
Seriously, there’s absolutely no reason to not allow the opposing side to see your name and vice-versa.
A lot is taken away from the competitive nature of open world PvP when you can’t identify your enemy.
Is that “Joe Punkman” hiding behind that generic title or “Murderous Mandler” ?
Why does it matter, well, vendetta and combat awareness mainly, plus it’s more engaging when you have real enemies and not nameless objects that could just be NPC’s.
I mean Joe Punkman might be a dude that waved at you earlier and didn’t take advantage of a situation, you might wish to return the favor…if you could recognize him.
But Mandler, oh he’s wanted dead by dozens of people for being a total kitten…
So, who should be the priority target?
Get the picture?
I personally prefer an MMO that’s not entirely on rails, that’s my biggest gripe with TSW (I love the game) is that you are on a ride; a wonderful ride it is, but still a rollercoaster on tracks.
GW2’s strength, if ANet doesn’t ruin it, is the open “feel” it offers the player. TBH, I never felt the Personal Story was GW2’s strong suit…I am fairly agnostic about it. The PS stopped short of greatness in so many ways.
The personal home instances are a good example of how shallow the PS is in regards to the player character experience.
Back in the ancient days of DAoC, I could hang trophies of my kills on the walls of my personal home and place items for sale on a merchant in a stand outside my very customizable home. (I’m just using this as one example of GW2 missing the mark in just one facet of what “personal” means.)
I like the fact that outside the overarching story of the “dragons”, Tyria is filled with a thousands other stories unfolding all around. Some are intertwined, others stand-alone in hidden corners here and there.
If I could hit the do-over button, GW2 would never have had levels, it would have had Traits and Skills that could be unlocked in various multiples of ways via varying paths. (Longer paths would be easier, the shorter paths more difficult; but both would be ways to unlock a certain Trait/ability) I digress….
Yeah, anytime the traits are purchased is pretty much an indictment of the system. And the only build diversity this encourages is in having a patchwork of nonsensical traits, which is just bad, and why am I even wasting my energy writing in this thread anymore?
I haven’t seen it brought up, I am positive it has, but it bears repeating: the Trait UI interface is awful and clunky since the April change.
Where before we had an intuitive cascading menu pop-up of Traits, we now take a step back in the evolutionary process and get a list and drop down menu.
Now to even “view” the choices the UI forces you to “spend” your trait points, albeit such a thing is reversible…but this is clunky.
Sifting through Traits in the “new system” is a PITA, in my opinion.
I think it’s amusing that we are still discussing this after the dev response said that this was acceptable. Of course, the comment about the brother was after that statement, I still believe that the devs statement on the matter still holds true, as only one person is using said account, regardless if that person is the one who registered it. It doesn’t say anywhere that only the registered user can use the account. A similar situation would be a parent buying a copy for their kid. The kid doesn’t have an email, and thus cannot register the game. So the parent registers it for them, but only the kid plays on that account. Now according to some, this would be against the ToS, and thus illegal, and bannable.
You are right, I involved myself because it’s a pet peeve of mine with the modern world: people who advocate mechanical absolutes on matters best left to human understanding and judgement.
Unfortunately, as soon as you said “and my brother”, well… you just admitted to the illegitimate past use of that account.
Is that the distinct sound of Dhuum’s sharpening stone I hear?
Please leave the replying to people who bother to read what they are replying to:
i bought gw2 for myself and my brother and he doesnt play anymore. so i own and control that account too, so i just wanted to do world bosses. There will be no botting or any account sharing.
There’s no way in the kitty universe that ANet will make an issue of two accounts being used in the same household/ip as long as botting is not an issue.
Truly am sorry for upsetting you by stating the facts. The fact is it is against the rules to share an account for any reason(please see the exact quote of the clause above). Justifying the illegitimate use is surely your prerogative but it does not make it in any way right.
Reality trumps legalese in such matters. You are essentially are pointing out that jay-walking is “against the rules” and I simply state that such a rule is seldom enforced/prosecuted unless there are extenuating or other contributing (yet often) arbitrary circumstances.
-
ANet would hurt itself if it decided to become a NOT-zee over such infractions. Households and families would get banned…noses cut off to spite the face, yada yada.
No, ANet won’t come out and encourage such an activity, in the same way it will never endorse SweetFX or other third party software usage.
Discretion is involved, it’s the wide gulf of difference between a cop letting a jay walker off with a friendly warning and shooting the transgressor dead.
(edited by Kuldebar.1897)
In Guild Wars:
“Since the May 26, 2010 update, Dhuum appears in-game whenever an account is suspended or terminated and kills the character using either Impending Dhuum or Vengeance is Ours.”
-wiki
Well, it is actually against the rules of the ToS/UA.
2. (f) (iv) sell, sub-license, rent, lease, grant a security interest in, borrow, lend, loan, network or engage in any activity that could in any way transfer or provide others access to any Service, Content, Software, or parts thereof, including but not limited to any serial code number, access key or the like.
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/guild-wars-2-user-agreement/
9. (b) Each Account may only be used by one person .
ANet is not going to declare war on families who own one or two or more accounts for family members to play together on from the same IP unless there’s something more nefarious going on. Additionally, it frees up ANet from having to sort out issues of “deleted” or “stolen” account items if such a usage occurs because it is a technical violation.
Jay walking, not likely to get you in trouble unless you cause, or almost cause, a traffic accident.
Unfortunately, as soon as you said “and my brother”, well… you just admitted to the illegitimate past use of that account.
Is that the distinct sound of Dhuum’s sharpening stone I hear?
Please leave the replying to people who bother to read what they are replying to:
i bought gw2 for myself and my brother and he doesnt play anymore. so i own and control that account too, so i just wanted to do world bosses. There will be no botting or any account sharing.
There’s no way in the kitty universe that ANet will make an issue of two accounts being used in the same household/ip as long as botting is not an issue.
(edited by Kuldebar.1897)
It pays off by taking your time on the Character Creation Screen.
For example:
- The Sylvari can be a challenge to get the glow and colors right, especially if you consider possible future armor looks.
- Hair style is also rather important. My Human Necromancer has long straight hair…which unfortunately clips horribly through many chest and shoulder armor types.
- Norns…can be gruesomely proportioned, I found that it helps to spend some time matching head size options along with body types to allow for a more “human” looking character. I cringe when I see these bulky Norns with heads too small for their bodies.
- Noses, brows and eyes! If you want to avoid being a clone, take roads less traveled and change default faces by adjusting eye, brow and nose options.
- Names are very important to me, I spend a lot of time on them, there’s simply no excuse not to be satisfied with a name before finalizing the character creation process. For those that need help, there’s a plethora of name generation sites on the web:
http://www.nordicnames.de/wiki/Names
(edited by Kuldebar.1897)
This communication deficiency was made apparent for all to see when the Ascended Tier was announced a couple months after launch…it has not gotten any better since then, I might even venture to say that it has become habitual. Major, fundamental changes are getting sprung on the player base.
There’s been some glimmers that ANet as an organization is showing some self awareness, but they seem to always to default back to: saying nothing, not engaging or acknowledging.
The false dichotomy that includes the mantra: don’t listen to the players because they can lead you, the Devs, in the wrong direction.
But, I’d argue that there’s a balance to be struck in such things.
Yeah, at this point I am probably going to be focusing on my 80s and maybe bringing my test necro out to farm some stuff to try to ear some gold and mats for what she has used up. There is just no joy in playing a toon made after April. Sadly that means once I’m bored playing with those level 80s I may find myself walking from the game. i hate that this might be the case. i really do. This trait system has broken the game IMO. No amount of NPE is going to make it right either. Fifty five pages and 5 months and…yeah…nothing.
I got my Engineer to 80 under the NPE, mostly via EotM, I’m now leveling a Thief…
The wait for level 15 just to get weapon swap is annoying, but then there’s the whole Trait Rationing which I’m not sure I can put up with on my Thief.
I am so mad/sad that ANet took a fairly flawless progression and butchered it in this way. Between April and September, the leveling experience has been mangled.
It’s not a total disaster, there has been some good in what ANet has done…but the game flow has been disrupted via uneven attribute stepping, Trait Unlock aberrations and questionable gating like swap weapon, etc.
The addition of EotM to the game is a real head shaker on many levels:
- EotM is, but isn’t really, WvW..so right from the start things are a little bit ambiguous.
- Minute for minute, EotM is more rewarding in every tangible way for the participating player: Badges, Coin, Loot (bags and chests!), XP and Karma.
Corollary:
The WvW Map requires far more time and effort while offering less rewards than EotM; I see this as a major issue.
- EotM can be a largely PvP-less, the incentives will drive opposing sides to avoid the entanglements of direct combat. Now, this is not to say it doesn’t happen but generally speaking, the the trains run on separate tracks and hardly ever collide.
- The player-base becomes further split and segmented and vying sub-culture/play-styles arise that are often in conflict with each other.
Example:
What you learn in EotM is not necessarily applicable to general WvW, and the inverse is also true.
- Poor design is poor design. Submarine meet Screen Door. Screen doors are awesome! Submarines are cool! Put together, not so much.
While some design elements in EotM could have been used for improvements in WvW, ANet decided on a parallel system running in competition for the most part with a core system.
What I want/wish from ANet:
- Rebuild the WvW Maps from scratch:
-add unique faction geography instead of revolving generic cloned maps, a sense of persistence would make the fight and the setting more meaningful (DAoC illustrated this concept well)
-less throttling via obstacles but more choke-points; enemy players should be the obstacles not 10 minute runs around a huge cliff or impenetrable wall
- Put thought into what player behavior to encourage:
- defending territory should be more rewarding
- newly acquired holdings should have a period of vulnerability (gate strength, wall strength, Lord strength, etc.) for a certain time after being captured
-allow players to transport supplies, in other words, players can deposit supplies at any location capable of storage; current NPC supply caravans could be adjusted accordingly
(edited by Kuldebar.1897)
According to Reddit there are over 3 million active players. If true the npe really wasn’t needed. Over 3 million players from 4.5 million sold is incredible retention.
With all due “respect” to that reddit post, the discussion was 3 million accounts…and what that actually means. The general consensus was that, yes that many “boxes” or copies were sold but that in no way means “active” or current.
Historical:
GW1 had the issue with weapons/shield being constantly unsheathed/deployed during cut-scenes, I think that was fixed by simply excluding them from the rendered character.
Also. GW1 originally didn’t have mouth movements for the voice actors in the cut-scene, this was later added to the earlier Chapters with (I think) Nightfall’s release.
I haven’t noticed the weapons appearing/reappearing issue in GW2 in the cut-scenes, but it may happen in the open world activities?
I can see that as an understandable limitation because the extra steps required to “solve” the problem is cost prohibitive:
Custom animation and skins each time a character equips a bundle or emotes depending on their equipped gear, etc…
As for the emotes..
Emotes in the open game world are theatrical in nature and somewhat over the top.
Like actors on a stage, everything is exaggerated so the farthest audience member can interpret what is being conveyed in the body language of the performer. Telegraphing emotion is a brute force endeavor in most games I have played, I haven’t seen it done well in an MMO yet.
But maybe one day:
For example, right now crafting materials aren’t all labeled as such. When a player first starts, there’s not an easy distinction between crafting materials and trophies. Giving them the descriptors “crafting material” and “junk” would make that difference much more clear. Plus it would take the guess work out of the “sell junk” button at vendors. Before you come to understand what it does, there’s the question “is this item important? Should I be keeping it for something? It says ‘trophy’ so what do I do with it?”
The tool-tip gives a wealth of information, that’s what the new player need to learn: use the informational tool-tips.
The idea is that you’re supposed to kill the enemies, not walk past them. I know this doesn’t happen, but yeah, that’s what the devs were thinking.
Traditionally, that’s usually what clearing a dungeon entailed and how I was used to doing it. But in recent years, MMO Dungeons have been more about “tricks” to avoid fights and bypass the more PITA-like, non rewarding, time-gated, etc. aspects of a dungeon.
I often wonder why devs don’t just readjust the mobs accordingly or tweak the dungeon’s layout. Doors and Gates that “unlock” come to mind as a decent means to have players face the challenges you set for them.
But minus a Dev solution, we have the plethora of non-immersive “tricks” to avoid enemies, but it cheapens the experience at least according to my sensibilities.
ANet has an issue with inconsistency in design.
Trait Points were consolidated and “lessened” in gradients:
14 points to assign instead of 70
The reason for doing so was to reduce complexity and “improve” the player experience.
Currently, with 80 levels, the problem now is the choppiness of level progress due to the way attributes are allotted:
Level Increase Total
1 24
4 +30 54
10 +35 89
16 +35 124
22 +40 164
28 +55 219
34 +60 279
40 +70 349
46 +73 422
52 +80 502
58 +80 582
64 +82 664
70 +82 746
76 +85 831
80 +95 926
This creates counter-intuitive peaks and valleys of difficulty that can be out of sync with the map the player is playing. One wonders why ANet didn’t choose to compress 80 levels into 15…
Additionally, since Trait Unlocks are also “out of sync” with player progression, this compounds the flaw further.
Before the April and September 2014 changes, if a character simply followed their Personal Story, they would always be guided to appropriate level maps. (Notably, prior to September, the player would be warned if a Personal Story was at a higher level.)
Now the situation comes about where Trait Unlocks are located in maps that are often at complete odds with the character level., maps that the player would not go to normally if they were using the Personal Story as their guide.
Additionally, seemingly arbitrarily placed attribute gains create a fairly unsatisfying progression experience for players who wish to solo level. In many respects, while this encourages more zerg-group leveling (EotM, Champ Trains, etc) play-styles, it also helps mask the character’s growing pains because players funnel their activities into the more efficient methods.
With Trait Point and Trait Unlocks gating and limiting customized progression to a large degree, and attributes being rationed in tiered levels, much of the player’s sense of freedom is curtailed because the inconsistency of design elements impacts the progression.
The main reason it’s so bad is because it sets a precedent that says, “We’re unable to stand against player criticism. If you criticize enough over time, then eventually we’ll cave.” It’s roughly equivalent to a parent refusing a cookie to a child and then relenting after the child whines for an hour straight; it sends the message that the kid just has to whine enough and he will get what he wants.
I’m not saying we’re all whining children, mind you – many of us are far from that. But the point is, the last thing any company needs is for consumers to think that they will always cave under pressure. Then it becomes a game of who can scream the loudest and longest.
Reverting changes shortly after they have happened is a different story and sometimes it’s ok because the company can save face at that point by saying that they are adjusting to what players want. But even then, usually what happens is that the company makes some kind of adjustment to the changes to make them more palatable.
Bottom line is, the longer a company waits, the more harm it’s going to do to revert something major. And they have long passed the threshold of “significant harm to their reputation if they were to revert.”
Yes, that’s the measure of it.
That’s why I really wished ANet would stop making these type of “painted into a corner decisions” with the game.
There’s a propensity on the part of the Devs to rip out all the original wiring and reinvent stuff…in new and “interesting” ways. The problem is that the game starts becoming a radically different game then the one originally purchased.
Yes, yes…changing game experience, yada, yada. But there is a point of departure in what can be considered as reasonable.
I have been upset with ANet since two months after release with the Ascended Tier debacle.
So far, my grudge list of changes inflicted upon the game looks like this:
- Ascended Tier
- WvW Development/EotM
- Trait Unlock System
- NPE/Level Lock
It’s really reaching the tipping point for me, and I love the game!
But these changes are mile markers for departure points where the game, that many of us originally wanted, went off the tracks.
Communication is definitely the Achilles Heel for ANet. They just can’t understand the value of face time with the community other than what’s scripted in the “See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil” marketing-speak primer.
Yes, Gaile Gray is a breath of fresh air and a wonderful advocate, but she isn’t a Dev and is not setting policy.
There’s a stubborn element refusing to grasp the concept that the continual implementation of radical changes on the game’s community is not a good thing.
The whole Trait Change of April has been laid at the feet of the community as something “we asked for”… But for anyone that actually paid attention and is not tone-deaf; it’s rather obvious that the community was expressing a desire to have NEW TRAITS (Elite-like) added to the game that could be unlocked via exceptional tasks.
Somehow, that idea got mutated into lock every existing Trait plus the New Traits behind level locks, exorbitant costs and content gating. /boggle
I don’t think my opinion is completely unique, I believe it resonates with many in the community.
(edited by Kuldebar.1897)
I’d love to see a “view only usable item” option in merchant windows.
Also the traits and related stat boosts come way too slowly and way too late, there’s really no point in WvWing on characters until you reach level 80, you just get masacred. Feel free to read some of the pre WvW tournament threads where WvW guilds were telling people below level 80 and without at least full exotic gear not to waste space in WvW when there’s queues.
I’m not disagreeing, but EotM has effectively been the pressure valve for players who are leveling under this kitten Trait System. Just plop into EotM and rinse/repeat the train ride until level 80. My new engineer (rolled after the NPE released) is level 56 now from doing EOTM and the Personal Story.
So, it goes from bad to worse, in my opinion all because of the April Trait Changes, it’s just not enjoyable to clear maps on a character that is mostly Trait-less.
Sure, I’d prefer to clear maps as I level, but the leveling progression has taken some big hits in granularity, there’s some big peaks and valleys in the attribute gains that can really wear thin at some levels when clearing maps. What was once a smooth and natural seeming progression…is now irregular and stuttering.
April 2014 Trait Changes + September 2014 NPE Attribute Gating = perfect storm of undesirable progression experience.
Far better to ride the EotM Train, get to 80 and then proceed to unlock Traits and clear Maps while wearing full Exotic Gear.
After all, any port in a storm.
If this current system MUST stay…
Adept traits should be easy to get, all should be solo content, and an average player should be able to unlock all or nearly all of them during their level-up process. Each trait should have a good sized pool of possible triggers to earn the trait, so that a person doesn’t have to be at a specific place to earn it.
Master traits should take slightly more effort, but not be difficult. An average player should be able to most of these traits during the level-up process. Each trait should have a small pool of triggers, and should be easily done solo or by small ad-hoc groups in the world.
Grandmaster traits are the only ones that should need to be “hunted” for (ie GW1 elites). Small to mid sized groups should be possible to complete all of them.
As PookieDaWombat.6209 said above, the cost to buy an unlock is way too high, both in skill point and coin costs.
Traits should be able to be unlocked in both areas of the game that this system applies to. There needs to be both a PvE and a WvW option for each trait; or at least a way to purchase traits simply by playing WvW.
Any trigger tied to a random, not-often-recurring event (Orr temples, some champ events) should be changed, or the event put on a designated timer so that a player will know when it’ll be up.
All events tied to a trait need to be extensively audited and tested to fix any possible stalls (Dredge Commissar, Branded Devourer Queen, Foulbear).
Awesome commentary and suggestion!
If we have to hold our collective noses and abide having a Trait Unlock System, the post above succinctly explains how to make it engaging, fluid and more fun and not the disjointed, obstacle-ridden, speed bumped enterprise that it is currently.
I think the point of her doing that was to make sure those who haven’t been following the thread closely know that there is some dev interaction/acknowledgement on the subject.
What Illysharia so eloquently pointed out was that Game Design Lead Jon Peters already possesses:
…a list of the Traits and the requirements that each one needs. He simply has to read his spreadsheet and see if they are level appropriate, and if the task is disproportionate to what is being gained. It really is no more than a weekend’s work, at most, of cross referencing to spot those.
Addressing this glaring issue of disproportionality would go a fair to middling distance in addressing a big problem with the April 2014 Trait Changes.
It really smacks of getting the run around when the people who devised the system task the users for information that they could simply look up in a database table.
If the Trait line is available for the character based on the level gate, the associated task to unlock it should NOT EXCEED that level range. (ie. level 30 player required to go to level 50+ map)
Is this really that difficult to understand, ANet?
But, don’t stop there!
Ask the reasonable question:
What things should be avoided as being used as unlock tasks?
For the most part people have been in agreement in this thread about:
- Befriending Ogre Camp
- Priest of Balthazar
- Champion Overgrown Grub
- Dungeon Story Completions
- Random/Rare/Broken Events
Basically, if it “takes a village” to unlock a Trait, it needs to be changed.
(edited by Kuldebar.1897)
Sure, I suppose if WvW folks would like more things to do, that’s great, but I’m not really following the logic as to why ‘The Dailies’ must be a finite pie? So, you throw in a WvW, awesome! More choices! Why did I then have to ‘lose’ a choice?
:(
The hand that gives, the hand that takes.
But, your more than reasonable doe-eyed expectations have no place in this universe, Notebene.
Are we clear?
EOTM is fine as it is…
The only problem is you get too many badges and too much WXP.
So, was the play fine and dandy, or not, Mrs. Lincoln?
In ANet’s world, EotM has nothing to do with PvE…hence it being moved to the WvW section.
I boldly maintain that there are plenty of players who partake in EotM that don’t have the slightest interest in WvW or PvP of any kind. Curious.
Not that there’s nothing wrong with that, it’s just the way the game is designed…and why would we ever want to presume to question such design decisions?
Being old fashioned, I just always felt that a nominally PvP centered aspect in a game should involve actual PvP as a means of progression.
If EotM is so grand, which it obviously is, why do we even have the other Maps at all.
Ounce for ounce, EotM gives you, the player, moar!
But it seems straight up dishonest for people to act like it’s some kind of community-wide issue.
You are very reasonable, that’s pretty clear; but surely you can see how EotM has impacted the WvW experience as a whole? Granted, to a large degree, WvW Players have their own community within the game, some avoid PvE as much as possible.
I wanted GW2 to be my DAoC 2 and RvR to be my end-game…yeah, I got horribly disabused of that notion within two months of launch…but my expectations (dreams, desires?) were shared with many other players as well concerning WvW’s place in the game. And they are still hanging onto GW2 waiting for ANet to spend some CPU cycles on that facet of the game.
(I usually dabble in everything but dungeons, myself)
The regular WvW Maps are massive zones with a lot of open spaces and relatively lengthy time periods in between rewards…EotM pretty much turned that on its head.
(edited by Kuldebar.1897)
I have leveled numerous characters a LOT in EotM
It is what is is, certainly, but it absolutely must be something of a particular nature or quality. After all, you yourself chose to level “numerous characters” via EotM; why was that?
Is there something that EotM offers you that good old regular WvW Maps don’t?
Ruby, Don’t Take Your Love To Town…
Ah yes, now that QD train is gone, Blix is gone, Coil is gone, and all other farms gone, we need something new to nerf into the ground. Good on ya. Destroy the hell out of EotM. You should team up with the guy trying to get all champ boxes nixed.
Blame the design, the pattern keeps repeating itself over and over because the same design flaws are repeated.
I’m running EotM on my Engineer like Gang Busters. I’ve blasted through over 30 levels and I’m going to keep at it until level 80.
I am doing this so I can finally start building my character in the way I used to do: meaning, where once I did this as I leveled prior to the April Trait Changes.
At level 80, I will be left with buying or seeking out my Traits; but I will be doing so in full Exotics, etc. This will make map clearing far more enjoyable than it is trying to run with minimum Traits and sub-80.
(edited by Kuldebar.1897)
GW2 lacks the depth to merit the doling out of what are “core” parts of the Professions in the game.
Unlike TSW, GW2 is rather spartan-like when it comes to customizing your Profession build.
Yanking core traits away and placing them behind level, skill point/gold price and content walls reveals how truly anemic the Professions are without their mojo.
Outside of paying the “optional” and spectacularly high Gold and Skill Point costs, the tasks required to unlock Traits are woefully ill-suited and out of sync with the average player’s progression.
EotM = amazing content with super bad implementation.
Result : the amazing content experienced is ruined by people exploiting the map just for selfish levelling up needs instead of helping their team in WvW, which is a group effort.
Don’t blame the players, blame the people who designed it, seriously.
It’s no mystery that players want loot, XP and coin; and they certainly will find a means to get those things.
Simply put, if you design a Maze for Rats:
1. Do you place the reward and the end of the Maze?
2. Do you place a reward after every turn in the Maze?
Guess which one would encourage the Rats to stay lost in the Maze?
The problem with Eotm that needs to be neerfed are the post-event chests that give out badges and siege.
Badges and siege already drop from npcs and players in EoTM so the chests are just overkill.
When that guy wants to convert his 1800 badges to gold he’ll find that they are worth an additional 20-25 Gold.
Siege, ESP superior siege, is too cheap because of the flood of EoTM badges.
The exclusive WvW skins, beautiful and once comparable to Dungeon armor/weapons in rarity are a joke that can all be picked up within a few hours of playing EoTM.
I have over 2100 Badges now, but EotM is hands down the best loot, XP and Karma train I’ve ridden in recent memory.
It’s not that other things can’t match it in the game, but EotM delivers far more consistently with far less hassle.
Yes, the Badges don’t give you all that much anymore, I noticed that there seems to be less armor than before from the Badge Vendor in WvW when I went there on the Engineer I rolled.
Like a slice of moldy bread to a starving man.
Ah! The timeless question: do we want the Goldy the Goose or the Golden Egg?
Perhaps both?
Something to consider: you are only “new” once and then you aren’t.
Wizard 101 has a different demographic methinks.
No, true equality demands burqas for everybody, regardless of sex!
I suggest before jumping to any conclusions about things that you take a look inside your PC case and carefully clean it of dust and any other debris which tends to accumulate on cooling fans and heat-sinks.
A soft dry paint brush, can of compressed air or a vacuum cleaner are great for cleaning the dust magnets. Obviously, be careful and don’t attempt to clean while the PC is powered on and running.
Here’s why I have been frustrated with ANet’s “communication” for quite some time now:
- ANet doesn’t telegraph its intentions very well or in a meaningful way to the community.
- ANet is tone deaf.
I won’t say they don’t try, but ANet’s form of communication is to release a flowery upbeat blog post a few weeks before they pop the changes on the players.
And then, once the changes have hit, effectively ignore, sideline or peripherally address the resultant turmoil.
Just take a look at three areas of major game changes (that I was around for/cared for) that have swept over the community:
- Ascended Tier (November 2012)
- Trait Unlock (April 2014)
- NPE (September 2014)
The common strand connecting the development and subsequent implementation of these items is a bad combination of tone deafness and lack of openness with the community.
Here’s the thing, Closed Beta is over, as a developer, keeping your true intentions hidden from your active players is not helping anything or protecting anything.
Especially changes that pull the rug out from under players, a little bit of sensitivity would help, but better than that, some actual behavioral changes are in order.
I do not buy the blather that “Anet’s policy is to not discuss future plans because plans could change”.
Well, there we go, ANet treating its community like little children, once again and then scratching its collective head when people express outrage at the overt lack of productive communication.
I don’t disagree. I’m simply making it clear that there isn’t a predetermined better reward for failing. I know I’m being pedantic here but players who keep saying “there’s a better reward by failing” the event aren’t being honest. It’s just that failure lets you repeat the event quickly rather than moving along in the event chain. The reasoning is if you fail, unintentionally, you don’t have to wait long to try again.
The solution will be the same as Blix, a longer failure timer.
Yes, it’s good to speak objectively and you’re right that things can get misrepresented all too easily via sloppy language.
I’m sure if ANet takes a look at it, they may want to make some adjustments.
Like the previous unintended farm, it doesn’t reward more for failure, just lets you restart the failed event quickly.
You realize that’s a “reward” aka a desired result, a positive outcome that serves a need?
And to the refrainer saying that failing an event is not griefing, semantics aren’t worth debating.
If some players actively seek to fail the event whereas others seek to complete the event, there’s a problem.
I have 3 level 80s. I levelled 2 through map completion, and only levelled my mesmer through EotM, because it’s a mesmer. I’m currently levelling my thief through dynamic events and story (not map completion).
It’s really a personal choice, and a lot of people who have multiple 80s are tired of doing the same hearts over and over to level. It’s a good alternative.
I’ve only levelled 2 80’s and had alts of various levels, 47 being the highest during the last two years. I’ve also stopped playing GW2 for long stretches.
Out of curiosity, how has the Trait Changes of April impacted your alt leveling?
For me, it’s the one thing that has put a chill on my motivations because it takes a lot of spice away from playing lower level characters.
They no longer feel like a satisfying work in progress to me, more like a grindy project that I want to rush to completion so I can polish out the details. (Map Completion, Trait Unlocking, etc.)