Guild Wars 2

Jana.6831:

I know
That wasn’t my point. I know that the trait system sucks but in my opinion they didn’t introduce it to make it easier for new players, which you just kind of contradicted – I always thought they they realized that some people might struggle to learn this game afterwards and that’s why they introduced the NPE which I actually like – simply because I like this game and the depth it has but if people don’t get it the “Nerf this and that” threads won’t stop and if they don’t stop all the nice shiny stuff we have gets nerfed.

The NPE mostly is “right” except for some of the more asinine skill gating issues still in place.

As for NPE adding or exemplifying the game’s depth, I think it actually detracts from it by parsing out the building blocks of the game.

You can either give the kid a handful of building blocks or just one every 20 minutes; I can more or less guarantee you that the kid will be more engaged with multiple building blocks versus just one or two.

My elementalist just dinged 35 with the single whopping minor Trait Point he got at level 30 and he finally got the last skill slot unlocked at level 31. It sucks being level 35 with no direction in a build or play-style. It didn’t used to be this way, the game is no longer liberating, it’s stifling.

I can not believe ANet thinks that this is the superior approach to progression.

Solution: Reddit

Of course, the problems there will only serve to refocus your mind.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/

Tachenon.5270:

Gosh, it sure is odd they didn’t brainstorm the alternatives and test it all out and find the glaringly obvious flaws in the trait system redesign in private before they laid it out for the community to suffer with it for 8 months while they sat back and once or twice asked us to sum up the bad parts and offered up the ‘hey guys, how about giving us some constructive suggestions because we’re listening!’ standard operating placation.

Or maybe they did find the flaws and just went ahead with it anyway. Unlike the happy little faux pas with the gems/gold exchange, this one is a bit of a sleeper. Maybe they figured it would take a while for this percolate up into community consciousness, and the handful of players who noticed it early on and spoke out would be labeled as whiners and chicken littles by their peers, and by the time it became noticeable to the player base at large, well, ha ha tee hee, too late to do anything now! Because at that point too many players would have suffered through the silliness getting their traits, and oh, hey, wouldn’t want to upset them, now would we. And, oh, btw, we’re going to reorganize the forums so potentially embarrassing topics like this will fade into the obscurity of pages 2, 3, 4, etc., much more efficiently.

I can see far more veracity contained in your “conspiracy theory” than the one Mo Mo espoused that fingers anyone critical of the April Trait Changes as being be in the service of Blizzard the Illuminati of the Gaming Universe.

dlonie.6547:

ArenaNet can’t answer you.

Believe it or not, that’s their policy.

There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don’t know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don’t know we don’t know. -DR

Lishtenbird.2814:

It’s been discussed with developers some time ago. They’re working on it and will release it When it’s ready™.

Kuldebar.1897:

Probably something that will be rolled into an expansion.

Well, because including features into Feature Packs obviously makes no sense, right?

It’s very common to introduce new features in expansions as well, not just “Feature Packs”.

There usually is a healthy list of nice and neat, highly anticipated game enhancements bundled into paid expansion that usually will carry over to all players but are delivered as part of the overall expansion.

Trait Build Presets would fit the bill.

Probably something that will be rolled into an expansion.

Invictus.1503:

Not to belittle your concern, but I find a 3 day delay to not only be acceptable (considering alternatives), but also a non issue. I would hope you can trust yourself to not spend the gold for at least 3 days

And that’s totally not the point.

He is the guild leader of a one person guild, the 3-day probation is silly and unnecessary.

Also, limiting a deposit and not just the withdraw is nonsensical.

I’ve leveled 2 80’s since September (a Guardian and Engineer) and I must admit that the Trait System has had a chilling effect on my enjoyment of the leveling process. I have leveled two 80’s under the pre-April GW2 as well, so I do have a frame of reference.

I expedited leveling as much as possible, using boosts and EotM Trains, Traits unlock were sporadic and random making it difficult at 80 to have a build fleshed out. The SP and gold costs got increasingly more difficult to cover, especially on my second post-patch 80 who needed some build versatility.

Now I have my Elementalist, by far the worst yet to level compared to the others. He is at level 27 at present and it has been a fairly stark experience.

Having leveled an Elementalist at launch (now deleted) to the same level range, I can attest to the fact that the lack of Trait Progression really impacts on enjoying the class.

Level 31 is a long wait, and then only for one Trait!

I wonder sometimes if we are just looking at things in the wrong way when we go on about “solutions” to these type things.

Maybe the armor stat varieties are fine and it’s just the combat AI of the mobs that need some changing.

DPS is king, we all know that, and let it remain king, but let’s not forget there’s a whole bloody royal court of other primary attributes that should matter.

Simply put, if people are choosing DPS over survival stats then that tells me the mobs aren’t supplying enough pressure in the right ways, meaning the mobs needs to have some varied methods of dealing out damage.

If Toughness and Vitality doesn’t matter enough, it’s not because “Zerk Gear” is wrong, it’s that those two stats have no real value in combat.

Perhaps it’s a case of the player that attempts to gear with Toughness/Vitality is being penalized too severely in the DPS department.

Or, maybe the Zerk-geared Player is getting a little more survivability than is justified?

If the player chooses to focus on survival, it should really count as something meaningful and not preclude the player from progressing in combat at a reasonable pace.

By all means, allow Zerkers to reign supreme on damage. Sometimes the absolute best survival (other than outright damage avoidance) is killing the enemy fast and as effortlessly as possible.

But, the survival/tanky types need some love and maybe this can be done by allowing one or both of the defensive stats to mitigate Boss level damage more effectively and noticeably.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Well, we have told them to be true to their vision on several occasions. But I can’t blame them for doing so either. They’ve repeatedly stated that they don’t want to just like every other MMO out there. (Which sometimes leaves me scratching my head, but that’s beside the point)

Still…to be a fly on the wall in that studio….

Well, that’s the rub isn’kitten Many players feel like ANet didn’t stick to their vision, at least the one their marketing department publicized.

But, I can deal with the possibility they have their own proprietary, in-house “vision” plan they aren’t sharing publicly; but again it is all in how it pushed out, where the rubber meets the road:

The point at which a theory or idea is put to a practical test. -Oxford Dictionary

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Were you around for “The Vision” era of EverQuest? When they continuously referred to it without actually saying what it was, while tweaking the early game? Heck, in the second expansion they invented a “dungeon” zone which had a boss progression but if you completed it the zone became nigh worthless to run again . . . forever, for everyone in the server, and almost never to be useful again.

This is without getting into “it’s not broken” stuff (mostly quests) being able to have proof it’s broken, and proof later on it was patched poorly to not be broken. Or items which were completely removed from first release because Vision.

I was playing UO (very briefly) and DAoC extensively around that time perhaps.

There have been many grand experiments throughout the years, that is for sure.

Horizons: Empire of Istaria comes to mind, there were quite a bit of challenges that sprang up over the claiming of land/real estate, etc.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Still, I have to wonder what their metrics tell them. Obviously if we just went by the forum consensus the sky would be falling, hell would be frozen over, and the world ending in general. However, from the activity in game, it doesn’t seem that way at all. Yes, they stir up the anthill often, but maybe they aren’t as out of touch as we would like to think.

You raise a very valid point, and I don’t want to come across like I am simplistically suggesting that ANet “listen” to every player request, but this is more art than science, in my opinion, so nailing it down is problematic.

I do recognize that when Dev and player expectations are in harmony, beautiful and wonderful things can happen, but there’s a lot more discord between ANet and their players relative to other MMO’s I have played. I think it arises mostly from the fact that

ANet tends to be more pushy in regards to their development output always giving their “vision” primacy at the cost of leaving the players with something they didn’t exactly ask for…it can all be fine, except when it isn’t.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Filaha.1678:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

What they do with them, whether we like it or not, does not negate the fact that it was all asked for.

So ArenaNet is the monkey’s paw of the game industry?

In a sense.

We make suggestions; however we don’t know the broader scope, how things are coded, etc etc because we don’t work there.

Well, I suggest that ANet should get more attuned or a least better at interpreting what players want. Yes, it’s a crap shoot even if you are good at it, but some companies can read their playerbase better. Not everything has to result in a crapstorm on the forums.

I’ve played many MMO’s over the last 20 years, this is unique to GW2 in my experience. Every game has the forum dramas, the disappointments and missteps; but ANet appears to be regularly cultivating such things, and it does so because of how it operates as a company via its policies, decision making metrics and the whole “vision thing”.

The problem is where the rubber meets the road.

Filaha.1678:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

What they do with them, whether we like it or not, does not negate the fact that it was all asked for.

So ArenaNet is the monkey’s paw of the game industry?

I’d LOL but it’s the all too sad truth.

It really underscores the admonition of “being careful what you wish for”.

ANet has never really done well with pet classes, the closest was probably the GW1 Necromancer minions but that was more in the mechanics of the Profession than actual Pet AI.

I think perma-Stow should be an option, one that would give the Ranger a “buff” of some type to offset going pet-less.

Innovation is necessary and awesome, we all have played games that were technically developed successful but also wholly derivative. (think the whole WoW Clone Memes, etc.)

But, the problem with reinventing wheels, is that it still very much needs to be a wheel when your are through with it.

Breaking genres, expanding the envelope and broadening the possibilities is always a risky endeavor but very rewarding if successful.

An example:

The Secret World is very innovative, but it’s innovations have held it back from being hugely appealing and, so to GW2. (but GW2 actually deviates less from the conventional model than Secret World, thus retains a broader range of appeal.)

The biggest issue I have with ANet’s development approach is that the company tends to treat the released game a bit too much like a test-bed.

When I recall how Blizzard pulled off some quite amazing things with WoW over its life span and compare it to ANet’s style, there are distinct differences in the final results.

Blizzard focused on longer periods of development, being more procedural aiming for a polished outcome with a well planned execution; ANet tends to be far more organic in their productions. Now, organic is fine, it’s very liberating and creative, but it can also lead to more missteps than the more structured development efforts of companies like Blizzard.

Blizzard’s strengths play to improving or expanding upon time tested concepts, where as ANet devises new systems (often) from scratch and this can result in more frequent peaks and valleys of successes and failures compared to the more methodical approach.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Ascended Tier:

No, I distinctly recall the threads calling for gear progression and raid like grind.

Yes, that’s what I indicated:

“Players widely expressed concerns of a dearth of end-game progression opportunities…”

Many players were asking for some sort of progression at level 80, ANet came out two months after release with Ascended Gear and then Fractals. It was rushed, poorly thought out, and Ascended is still mostly a work in progress.

Fractal Level +30 Reset:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

All I remember was people kittening that they had completed what was available, were bored with no new fractals, and wanted it to be more challenging. Tada…fractal overhaul. Was resetting the levels a bit much maybe? Sure, but having to reclimb that ladder gave them something to do now didn’kitten

Yes, a reset. I was mentioning this to illustrate the point: Fractals (and Ascended) was a rush job that could have benefited from more development time.

Again, yes, players ask for things, and games often are lacking in things, but this doesn’t give the Devs a free pass to slap whatever out onto the servers and then pass the buck to the player-base when it turns sour.

Trait Unlock:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Yes, we asked for skill hunting. They applied it to traits instead. They gave us a logical explanation as to why it was easier to do traits as opposed to skills. It’s really not that kitten awful. Yes, several acquisitions still need tweaking, but the world hasn’t ended.

Not sure why you wasted so many words on a point of relative agreement.

But, again, the entire point is what the the community “blob” asks for versus what ANet gives us. Many players feel that things are getting lost in translation somewhere.

NPE’s Level Gating:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Like the traits, the NPE has it’s pros and its cons. I’ve leveled several characters since those changes came along. Again, the sky is not falling. It is not the end of the world. It’s far from perfect, but it’s not hellfire and brimstone either. There have been people both helped and hindered by those changes.

Again, the entire point is what the the community asks for versus what ANet gives us. In this case, the NPE appeared to be addressing a “dire” problem according to ANet that many players didn’t know existed.

I can only speak from my own experience and what friends who once played GW2 and since quit (not to return) have told me. It was not because the game was too difficult.

But, that doesn’t matter, no one knew or guessed that ANet was cooking up a tutorial/leveling curve overhaul; it was pretty much the furthest thing from people’s minds in regards to what GW2 was in need of addressing.

Bottom line:

Since November of 2012, the blight of the post-80 mostly remains addressed.

• The Living Story, it is true, has added a lot of new content, but most, if not all, does little to add variety to the game. Many players think the LS series is diluting ANet’s efforts far too much.

• Additions/revampsof Dungeons (and much needed improvements to existing ones) appears to be very low priority for ANet. It gives one the sense they have thrown in the towel on that front.

• WvW which was heralded to be the other Endgame has been largely neglected. EotM did nothing to improve WvW, in fact it can be argued that EotM has harmed WvW overall.

Again, that’s just the existing situation above, not a list of all the other expectations many players have held onto:

• More weapon variety for Professions

• More variety of skins and acquisition means

• World Boss Event development

• Integrated GvG functionality

• Crafting Tiers for ALL crafting Professions

• Ongoing focus on Profession bug fixing/balance

Just examples of long anticipated game changes, but with ANet’s track record, we never really know what form such things could take or that they would even bother to convey their intentions.

Malediktus.9250:

No, morals are a human invention and are passed on from generation to generation by education from parents, religion, school, politicians etc. So is what is considered “good” and “evil”. If you look at the human history, the things considered “good” and “evil” change all the time, too.
Nature does not know good or evil. Ask a cat if it thinks wether killing for fun is evil or not. Or the old romans.
Good and evil are just inventions to justify certain actions by other humans.

Well, last I checked, “inventions” are real and do have a tangible impact on our reality.

But, setting that portion of your declaration aside, consider that morality, whatever its origins might actually be, also has a biological or evolutionary imperative in regards to the progression of the species.

Cooperation, intelligence, language, etc. are all aspects of the inventive methods our particular species has come to rely on for survival.

For that reason alone, a dynamic range of moral values becomes part of human progress, always changing with the times. Just because moral codes can change over time does not make them meaningless.; it’s a variant like any other attribute of human history whether it’s biological or cultural, or both.

Cormac.3871:

Kuldebar.1897:

Blizt.3086:

What do you all feel about this part?

It was tepid, because Caithe is inexplicably playing the fool more than playing the “bad guy”. The worse thing is that your character also gets roped into being an idiot when it comes to updating Jory on what transpired.

Really, hero, the Centaurs just became violent for no reason?

I mean, all Caithe and her psychotic girlfriend wanted to do was forcibly kidnap an honored guest from the Centaur village.

No idea why they would become so violent towards us. /rolleyes

I wouldn’t say it was inexplicable. She was only two years old at the time. Naivety is a bit of a racial trait for sylvari, even now let alone 20 years ago. She knows Faolin, trusts Faolin and has just discovered a group of outsiders torturing Sylvari and so is likely to believe Faolin over outsiders. She is also unable to recognise exactly the path that Faolin is about to head down with the nightmare court.

Granted, what you say is true. But Caithe’s role in this story is to be the enabler of a sociopath, so her reasons for being so are less important than the resultant outcome in terms of harm.

Faolain is playing Caithe and those around her like a maestro conducts an orchestra:

As this sort of person, you ensconce yourself in a niche, or maybe a series of niches, in which you can have some amount of control over small numbers of people. These situations satisfy a little of your desire for power, although you are chronically aggravated at not having more. It chafes to be so free of the ridiculous inner voices that inhibit others from achieving great power, without having enough talent to pursue the ultimate successes yourself. Sometimes you fall into sulky, rageful moods caused by a frustration that no one but you understands.
…

Provided you are not forcibly stopped, you can do anything at all. If you are born at the right time, with some access to family fortune, and you have a special talent for whipping up other people’s hatred and sense of deprivation, you can arrange to kill large numbers of unsuspecting people.
…

You notice that people who do have a conscience feel guilty when they harangue someone they believe to be “depressed” or “troubled.” As a matter of fact, to you further advantage, they often feel obliged to take care of such a person. If, despite your relative poverty, you can manage to get yourself into a sexual relationship with someone, this person – who does not suspect what you are really like – may feel particularly obligated. And since all you want is not to have to work, your financier does not have to be especially rich, just relatively conscience-bound.

- Excerpt:
From Martha Stout’s The Sociopath Next Door: The Ruthless Versus the Rest of Us

All in all, I liked the story and character motivations, Caithe could have been portrayed a little more robustly just to nail down her naivety/vulnerability a bit more.

I like the changes BUT the glow for new items is blinding and needs toned down a bit. The glow tends to drown out the item’s thumbnail.

Here’s a short clip of what went down:

Faolain is the one in the green.

Faolain is a sociopath. Caithe enables her burgeoning psychopathy by being a "useful idiot’. Yes, Caithe is vulnerable because of emotion and not thinking clearly about how Faolain is manipulating her and others.

Excerpt:
From Martha Stout’s The Sociopath Next Door: The Ruthless Versus the Rest of Us

Imagine – if you can – not having a conscience, none at all, no feelings of guilt or remorse no matter what you do, no limiting sense of concern of the well-being of strangers, friends, or even family members. Imagine no struggles with shame, not a single one in your whole life, no matter what kind of selfish, lazy, harmful, or immoral action you had taken. And pretend that the concept of responsibility is unknown to you, except as a burden others seem to accept without question, like gullible fools. Now add to this strange fantasy the ability to conceal from other people that your psychological makeup is radically different from theirs. Since everyone simply assumes that conscience is universal among human beings, hiding the fact that you are conscience-free is nearly effortless. You are not held back from any of your desires by guilt or shame, and you are never confronted by others for your cold-bloodedness. The ice water in your veins is so bizarre, so completely outside of their personal experience that they seldom even guess at your condition.

In other words, you are completely free of internal restraints, and your unhampered liberty to do just as you please, with no pangs of conscience, is conveniently invisible to the world. You can do anything at all, and still your strange advantage over the majority of people, who are kept in line by their consciences, will most likely remain undiscovered.
….

You are ambitious, yes, and in the name of success you are willing to do all manner of things that people with conscience would never consider, but you are not an intellectually gifted individual. Your intelligence is above average perhaps, and people think of you as smart, maybe even very smart. But you know in your heart of hearts that you do not have the cognitive wherewithal, or the creativity, to reach the careening heights of power you secretly dreams about, and this makes you resentful of the world at large, and envious of the people around you.

As this sort of person, you ensconce yourself in a niche, or maybe a series of niches, in which you can have some amount of control over small numbers of people. These situations satisfy a little of your desire for power, although you are chronically aggravated at not having more. It chafes to be so free of the ridiculous inner voices that inhibit others from achieving great power, without having enough talent to pursue the ultimate successes yourself. Sometimes you fall into sulky, rageful moods caused by a frustration that no one but you understands.

But you do enjoy jobs that afford you a certain undersupervised control over a few individuals or small groups, preferably people and groups who are relatively helpless or in some way vulnerable. You are a teacher or a psychotherapist, a divorce lawyer or a high school coach. Or maybe you are a consultant of some kind, a broker or a gallery owner or a human services director. Or maybe you do not have a paid position and are instead the president of your condominium association, or a volunteer hospital worker, or a parent. Whatever your job, you manipulate and bully the people who are under your thumb, as often and as outrageously as you can without getting fired or held accountable. You do this for its own sake, even when it serves no purpose except to give you a thrill. Making people jump means you have power – or this is the way you see it – and bullying provides you with an adrenaline rush. It is fun.

WyldKat.4712:

Caithe so OP! I want her skillset in WvW. squeeeeee

I found the abilities to be rather annoying, all that leaping around like a spastic cabbage.

Vesuvius.9874:

Seeds of Truth was a great episode. The only thing that bugged me throughout this episode was Faolain’s accent. It really annoyed me to hear a Sylvari speaking with a non-British accent. What happened here?

Oh! I thought it was because Faolain was “liberating” Wynde from the evil, terroristic Centaurs; I didn’t notice the accent.

I like the changes BUT the glow for new items is blinding and needs toned down a bit.

TexZero.7910:

Your opinion is highly flawed and shows you have no actual experience in either combat or the real world.

Good and Evil are nothing more than arbitrary labels assigned by the party who lived to write history. Both sides see their own ideology as just and moral.

Perhaps take up some philosophy or simple learn that world isn’t in absolutes.

For the sociopathic types, that world view is very empowering.

Breaking eggs and making omelets is what it’s all about.

Nothing really revolutionary about moral relativism, we have been following that methodology for quite a long time now.

Human history bears bloody witness to the constant refrain of doing what’s necessary to win, to gain the highest point on mountains made of skulls.

Ours not to reason why, ours but to do and die!

The only ennoblement of the human spirit is just following orders, after all, right?

Blizt.3086:

What do you all feel about this part?

It was tepid, because Caithe is inexplicably playing the fool more than playing the “bad guy”. The worse thing is that your character also gets roped into being an idiot when it comes to updating Jory on what transpired.

Really, hero, the Centaurs just became violent for no reason?

I mean, all Caithe and her psychotic girlfriend wanted to do was forcibly kidnap an honored guest from the Centaur village.

No idea why they would become so violent towards us. /rolleyes

Bordak.6519:

“The thing is, there is no good or evil……”

lol. lolololollollol. mwhahhahahahhahaaahaa. BAHAHAHHAHHAA.

I shouldn’t laugh as it’s kind of sad. To each their own.

It’s rather empowering, isn’t it though?

The shackles of all sentient action being struck off by such a liberating philosophy!

See, son, there’s not really good or evil, it’s just a preference thing; one man’s evil is another man’s ice cream and cake.

You can treat GW2 LS like Netflix shows, wait for the whole Season to come out and binge it all up.

Malediktus.9250:

The hypocrisy is big again here. Who cares if you have to slaughter some centaurs. Over your game time you will kill 100k+ creatures, so what does this small village matter.

If we were playing absolute pacifistic characters, I might agree with you that it would be hypocrisy. Killing isn’t a problem obviously, the reason we are the supposed good guys is because we do it “justly”.

It’s like say you are a powerful nation, you might come to the defense of smaller nations when asked and you might kill actual bad guys.

But if you were to lie about your motives and just go to war all over, fighting enemies that you created while killing people left and right; well some people (you know, weirdos, non-contents, peaceniks, hippies, etc.) might point out that you aren’t being the “good guy” anymore.

Everyone realizes that you have the option, entirely in your control, to WAIT until the whole Season is released to play the fewking Story if it bothers you to get the releases in dribs and drabs.

Right? Everyone knows this?

I binge watch whole multiple seasons on Netflix all the time.

I can handle the “actions” being performed as a memory, but when you return and tell Jory what took place…you say “Centaurs turned on Caithe”! That ridiculous summation takes huge liberties with the facts and glosses completely over the provocations and what really happened.

Also, Caithe is being stupid. In this game, love appears to make people giant idiots; yes, I am looking at you, Logan.

Nilkemia.8507:

Except it was clear Faolain was in the wrong, even Caithe should’ve been able to see that and try to defuse the situation instead of helping slaughter the entire village. What good intention were we going for, taking Wynne back against her will?

Spot on!

Crovax.7854:

this might not be the game for you .

And there it is, the whole point that you took forever to reach.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Where did this quote come from?

A lot of the things being mentioned happened because we the players asked for it…

No, not really.

ANet’s established method of communicating its intentions along with their general reluctance to understand that killing the goose is no way to secure the supply of golden eggs is reflected in the changes that ANet has brought about:

Ascended Tier:

Players widely expressed concerns of a dearth of end-game progression opportunities, so instead of ANet implementing (let’s say) a fully fleshed bevy of “Elite Traits” and a engaging system of acquisition to the game; they gave us instead a dungeon treadmill (Fractals) and the poorly realized Ascended Tier.

Fractal Level +30 Reset:

Fractals became the new corridor of progression and plenty of players lined up and started grinding them out in the understandable confidence that ANet had adequately planned out the path ahead. Unfortunately, it had not.

ANet revised the entire system, and changed the rules.

I never had a dog in this fight, but it was another “thrashing” dev change inflicted on players that could be categorized as “major”.

Trait Unlock:

Players, still hungry for progression opportunities, clamored for something that the original Guild Wars had offered: Elite Skill Hunting/Acquisition.

It was a great idea that would allow the players at 80 to have a full spectrum of new and varied challenging (perhaps, ever-growing number of) opportunities to acquire NEW “elite” Traits to top off the existing core Trait lines.

Tone deaf as always, ANet decided to rework the ENTIRE Trait system as well into the introduced system. This changed the game in a fundamental way, I won’t delve into if it was good or bad; but let’s agree it was a HUGE game changer.

NPE’s Level Gating:

In response to a “dire” need to retain new players that presumably were quitting due to the game’s complexity, ANet added further layers of progression complexity.

Where once, an elegant and intuitive system existed, a clunky, inconsistent and plodding progression curve was introduced.

Stepped and widely spaced attribute gains led to some serious peaks and valleys in what had used to be a smooth progression.

Skills and abilities were level gated in off-putting and non-complimentary ways. (Example Off-hand usage and Weapon Swap)

Crovax.7854:

Players’ aren’t new to the game by this point. They have to play all the way to level 80, through the whole story until Zhaitan and then through all of Season 2.
More than ample time to get familiar with all the mechanics.

Oh I imagine there are plenty of sparsely traited, overly gated and undergeared, new level 80’s diving into the Living Story these days, the bigger issue is what happens when the game just turns into one frustrating experience after another for them?

Not every player is masochistic type gamer, some people just want to have fun, not tedium.

Crovax.7854:

As I said, this was the first stealth mission ever in GW2. Veterans were as clueless as new players. It was new to all players.

There’s a reason why people almost universally despise this heart quest:

Join the Ash Legion of Tawny Ridge in stealth operations

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Join_the_Ash_Legion_of_Tawny_Ridge_in_stealth_operations

This is like the Heart quest called “Join the Ash Legion of Tawny Ridge in stealth operations”, except worse, it’s more frustrating.

Xenon.4537:

They basically redistributed the challenge, piling it all up in raids and such. That way the casuals can cruise around nice and easy. Oh but then the casuals cruise too far. They make it to the raids and find out “Hey! There’s this section of the game I haven’t ruined yet! Nerf plz!”

Come on, you were right up until you laid the whole thing upon the supposed casual gamers. Let’s not forget who is developing the game, they might actually bear some of the responsibility with the results.

But, I do agree that by (ineptly) dumbing down aspects of the game early on, ANet has created a problem as they attempt to ratchet up difficulty like in the latest LS Boss encounters, etc.

Me personally, I like “fun” over brain hurting puzzles or annoying boss mechanics, maybe I am a “casual player” but I also happen to play 6+ hours or more a day and have extra slots filled with alts.

I don’t do dungeons, I find them annoying, tedious, mostly unrewarding and that players no longer play for fun but for “speed”.

I dabble in WvW, but the rank system is a joke now…I am LEGEND! ANet handing gold stars out once again to everyone. (EotM, anyone?)

Contrary to popular opinion, I as a “casual” have not bee thrilled with what ANet has been doing to my level progression and character development.

The Trait system really signaled a huge deviation from the open nature of the game, it was further cemented by many of the NPE gating changes.

Don’t lay this crap at the feet of casuals, it’s on ANet.

Rasimir.6239:

Living Story season 2 is what in other MMOs would be referred to as “endgame content”.

But the the Living Story didn’t start out that way, did it? Yes, it was morphed into “end-game” content by the Devs in Season 2, but that was not following the trend set by the first LS1. The first Living Story was inclusive to all levels, obviously this has now been changed.

This indicates very clearly to me that ANet lacks a clear development road map for some very fundamental aspects of the game, players are getting jerked around far too much:

ANet appears to have a particularly bad track record when it comes to sweeping changes:

• Ascended Gear…has never been finished or rounded out, it was pushed out two months after game release.

• Fractals: this dungeon treadmill was pushed out and then later “rethought”, resulting in a Fractal Reset which hit some players rather hard.

• Traits Acquisition Changes in April 2014: What many players were hoping to be a new line of Elite Traits that could be hunted in various challenges throughout the game world became a complete hijacking of the Core Traits into a messy, out of sync bizarre system we currently have.

• NPE: Talk about using a sledge hammer to kill a fly! A total and clunky (stat/attribute spread) revision of the entire level progression experience of the game, the one area which from DAY ONE was vaunted as the game’s strong suit by players and reviewers alike.

Let’s not pretend that this was the “plan” from day one, also let’s not ignore that players were sold on one system before the other sweeping changes were introduced.

Rasimir.6239:

I’m not sure what “regular” game areas are for you, but off the top of my head, I can’t think of any trait unlocks that are not located in regular game areas.

Regular refers to simply roughly following the zones that the Personal Story arc sends you, all the duplicate leveled areas throughout the game geared to one race or region.

timmyf.1490:

The absolute maximum number of traits you need to unlock for a single build is 7. (14 trait points, one to minor which requires no unlock, next to major.) If you assume that you need to swap out traits to one COMPLETELY DIFFERENT alternate build, you need to unlock 14 traits.

While I understand gold and skill points may be in short supply, that’s not really a huge task. Given that leveling normally (read: not by karma-training EOTM) will probably unlock a few of these along the way, I really don’t sympathize with this complaint.

Mike Hawk.4835 and you both rather lightly dismiss the obstacle presented to the newer player when it comes to Trait Unlocking. Instead of jumping into the Living Story or doing the “fun” things, I suppose they will need to farm for their Traits.

This never happened before April because you could unlock your Traits as you leveled.

To unlock all of a profession’s traits you will need to pay 360 skill points and 43g.

Keep in mind that the new or inexperienced player will not know beforehand what Traits are like, so will pay the cost or do the “work” prior to ever knowing how a build will work out for them and their particular play-style.

Sure, with perfect knowledge one might be able to get several viable builds established prior to 80, but I find that an unlikely scenario for the average player. The tasks to unlock many of the Traits fall nowhere in the “regular” game areas and often are completely out of sync (10-20 levels higher) with the level requirement for the specific Trait. Additionally, many Trait Unlocks require grouping for Champions or Dungeons.

So, players are usually left with the obvious choice of buying the Traits, assuming they know which ones they want, from the Vendor.

Newer 80’s will not be sitting on a pile of Skill points or Gold.

A full Trait line costs 8.6 gold and 72 Skill Points to unlock.

Not impossible, but it does takes time.

It would help if the “veteran” players who happened to benefit from the original Trait System would understand that there are many newer level 80 players running around the game world frustrated to all hell because they do not have the versatility of build options for their chosen profession unlocked yet.

Mike Hawk.4835:

Well, you miss the whole point on the build system then.

If your current build doesn’t work against a specific piece of content, the build system is there to for you to CHANGE your build to suit the content you are facing. Then simply change it again for the next piece of content as required.

Do you see experienced dungeon runners using the same setup/gear in each dungeon, in each path? Nope. In fact, pro’s will even change traits/armor between bosses and areas in a single dungeon path.

Do people use the same build in WvW, sPvP and PvE with the expectation of getting the same results between them? Nope.

Story line is no different.

That’s the point of the flexible build system – you seem to have it backwards and expect there to be some sort of miracle build for a given class that can do everything with efficiency and ease.

Every thing you state is true, but I would point out that the elephant in the room since April of this year has been the Trait System overhaul.

Newer level 80’s don’t have the “versatility” that was so prized before April’s Feature Pack because they simply don’t have all their Traits unlocked.

I have leveled an Engineer and Guardian to 80 since September of this year and can attest to the dearth of traits; a character can only accrue so many SP’s and gold and/or successfully complete the Trait Unlock Achievements to shore up their line of Traits in a reasonable amount of time.

This kills versatility and the learning curve for skills more than anything else. It stifles character development and leaves newer 80’s with little flexibility or options.

Veteran players with a bevy of pre-April 80’s will simply not face this handicap.

Having spent some time now in the Silverwastes map on my level 80 Necromancer, Guardian and Engineer, I can “officially” declare that the mobs in the maps generally p**s me off.

There’s really just a bit too much ragdolling and CC going on for it to be considered fun unless you are into bondage and being treated like a corpse.

If it’s one or two mobs, that pull these cheap tricks, it’s not that big of a deal, but many more than that you might as well getting ready to visit Camp Resolve.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Just remove those parts of the Personal Story? Those parts of the map? Gaping holes would be better?

I can not support this suggestion.

Sounds like you are being just being argumentative for no reason. Dumping the “Home Instance” doesn’t equate to deleting the Personal Story portions that involve said instance. Like all the other PS instances that we can’t return to after they are no longer needed, the home instance would become like the rest of them, etc.

The OP has a point as the game stands right now, but I’d venture to guess that personal housing will be made in some fashion within the home instance someday.

I agree, it’s a really big problem, more so in GW2 than all the many other MMO’s I have played over the years.

I literally have no clue where my cursor is during battles, especially but not solely, in the graphical nature of the Silverwastes.

Ground Targeting placement becomes even more difficult than it already can be during a frantic paced battle. The green/red target circle can also become “lost”.

The targeting wonkiness is driving me to rage in Silverwastes, I can’t afford to be on the wrong target in the battles, way too easy to have things go sideways.

I don’t mind the “Teragriffs” but they would fit more in TERA than in GW2 because of the skills/abilities/cooldowns.

Perma ragdolled and downed gets really old fast. I think “balance” is the key…the game has to plus up both sides correctly as a whole not just add combat mechanics to the mobs willy-nilly.

I have been camping Amber for the Executioner for over 3 days of gaming sessions, he hasn’t shown up yet. The Executioner is the last Boss I need, I don’t think I’m the only one waiting for him to make a showing.

ArenaNet cannot approve or review or “vet” any third-party programs. Our general policy is that anything that gives advantage is forbidden; anything that imbalances the game in favor of one player over another is strictly disallowed. With that said, we are aware that some utilities help players without impacting others, that is, they do not give anyone an advantage over someone else.

Our development team is not able to review third-party programs to kitten their components or give them any sort of approval. We make our policies clear in our User Agreement, Rules of Conduct, and the Conduct Breaches and Outcomes document, which you can find in the Legal Documentation section of our website: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/ You should know the following:
If you chose to use any third-party program, you do so at your own risk.
We cannot offer support if the third-party program impacts Guild Wars or Guild Wars 2 and, for instance, makes the game unplayable.
If you choose to use what you believe to be a “benign,” or non-advantage-giving program, be sure to get it from a legitimate source to protect yourself from the possible addition of cheats or key-loggers.
The best way for a player to kitten whether a specific third-party program could have any impact on another player or a PvP opponent is to ask:
“Does this program allow someone to play faster, better, longer, or more accurately than someone who doesn’t use it?”
“Does this program allow someone to ‘play’ when he/she is not at the computer?”
“Does this program allow the user to gain undeserved rewards?”
If the answer to any of these questions is “yes”—or even “maybe”—then we strongly recommend that you do not use the program because to do so may place your Guild Wars or Guild Wars 2 account in jeopardy.
In the future, we will be working directly with the community to develop app support for Guild Wars 2, so stay tuned for more info!

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/account/Policy-3rd-Party-Programs-Multi-Boxing-Macros/354869

andrew.1798:

Thrown against a boss where you don’t know what to do? Oh man… I can’t think of any other real game that does this to you. Oh wait, all of them.

When do games explicitly tell you what to do in a boss fight? Are we really in that generation where hand-holding in games is a must?

You’d have a point if it weren’t for some really bizarre and counter intuitive mechanics being used, presumably for reasons of being “innovative and fresh”.

And, yes, more and more devs in other games are going “weird” in an attempt to make their fights “original”; the problem is that making the mechanics such a PITA for the players or ridiculously obscure is the lazy way of achieving it.

The supposed fear of “hand holding” should not necessitate that the game mechanics be clouded in mystery.

silvermember.8941:

So you wish guild wars 2 an MMORPG was more like a platforming game? Or a single player RPG? If you wanted either of those, you are in the wrong wrong place.

There is a reason why we have something called genres, genres give us a hint of what to expect from a game.

mario is a platform game.
Skyrim is an overrated POS open world RPG
guild wars 2 is a slightly above MMORPG with average combat.

Different genre different game play. Essentially, you are mad that the steak you eat at a chinese place isn’t as good as a steak house.

Nice argumentative spin, but you appear to be more interested in stirring up contention than simply understanding that Pac-Man is an entirely different genre than an RPG. It’s not a “bonus” if the individual player doesn’t like arcade game mechanics added into their RPG.

Also, you may have played Elderscrolls on a console, but it’s always been a highly moddable PC game for me.

I think this quote from another forum belongs here:

…they have annoying cheesy mechanics as a substitute for a challenge which results in boring those who want a real challenge and getting under the skin of people who just want to get past the encounter to see the story unfold.

tldr: cheese, too much

The larger problem I see is that introducing video arcade story progression into a role playing game kind of goes against the the novel idea of being in a real albeit fantastical world, emphasis on the “real” part.

I think this is a reason ANet backed off on making the Super Adventure Box part of the regular game. It doesn’t really belong there.

And before someone spouts off that ANet can put anything they want into a “fantasy” game, think again. If the integrity of the story is belittled or trivialized, the players who play for story and immersion will lose interest.