Guild Wars 2

TheFantasticGman.9451:

Many many many people fail to see the other reason the zerk meta in PVE instanced content came to rise is because 1) content never changed 2) humans learn.

There will always be an optimal build to get things done the fastest. Raids will be no different. The least amount support needed will be taken by the most organized groups.

This is absolutly true and as such nobody is going to take the one note Druid when better support options exist.

MusicMuse.5749:

Can’t druid provide a lot of that sort of support while also healing unavoidable damage quickly?

No, all it can do is heal. It has poor access to blind, no access to aegis or prot, can’t stack might or provide constant fury, nothing unique like alacrity, its projectile defense is straight inferior to reflects.

Only real advantage it has is it can still bring Frost Spirit and Spotter, things that are going to go out of favour due to what other classes can bring once hot launches.

mistsim.2748:

this is why most of the things written in this very thread so far cannot and will not be taken seriously. you guys are being silly. 20-25% damage boost on 5 players? do you have any idea how OP that is? 10% is great and makes a huge difference for a group’s damage output. there are glyphs in a much worse shape.

It works out at a 2.5% party damage buff, sun spirit in all Zerker teams adds more. The celestial form version is even worse. Nobody is going to take it in its current state.

No, other classes healing specs that can also provide defensive support, offensive support or damage will be taken instead.

Eric.7813:

The druid is really the only class that provides decent healing.

It really isn’t.

This is a much better thought out implementation of the role then what we are actually getting.

The problem that scepter is always going to have is that its a condition weapon and people are convinced that our condition builds are stronger then they actually are (a problem most mesmer builds have actually). Just look how much hate Mesmer condition builds get in game and on the forums, even if you don’t bring PU, remembering that currently Eles, Guards and Engies can spam rediculously large burn stacks.

Hell I had a ranger start raging at me yesterday and calling me a noob for using a cheese build just because my condi build had condi cleanse in it.

could add more variety, stop every skill from just being ‘this is also an aoe heal’ help it support builds and make it useful.

Staff

Astral Grace: Make this skill a port. Give the Ranger a much needed maneuverability boost to help its power builds become more viable in PvP. A sustainy Longbow Ranger with great mobility that can rush in and provide some support to teams and provide its burst from long range could help the Ranger muscle in on Theif/Mesmer territory.

Vine Surge: Add some bleeds.

Glyphs

All of them need some extra umph to make them more interesting/worth taking.

Glyph of Rejuvenation: Make the radius absolutly massive, gives this an advantage over Healing Spring. Probably needs something else though.

Glyph of Alignment: Blast finisher and increase length of conditions, in Celestial form, instead of healing provide defensive boons and remove conditions

Glyph of the Tides: Blast Finisher

Glyph of Equality: CD reduction

Chokolata.1870:

Quite honestly, the QoEmp should be a 20% damage boost and a 20% reduced damage taken in its inverted form.

Celestial Transform

If this is the druids defining mechanic then it needs to help with more roles

Add decent damage to Cosmic Ray and Lunar Impact

Seed of life needs an offensive component as well (which will also help with Glyphs via the trait), maybe some damaging conditions? Poison, Torment?

Natural Convergence: allow us to move while using it, presuming we can’t.

Traits

Live Vicariously and Natural Mender at the very least need to work when healing the pet, not sure if they mentioned whether it does or not but I would imagine it does.

Natural Mender should be changed to something a little more general to help various builds though. Something like ‘Whenever you heal yourself or an ally grant that person 2 sec Protection. 6 sec icd per person’ Or maybe even a unique buff that reduces damage by say 10% that can then stack with other sources of protection.

Celestial Shadow: Depends on how easy it is to get in and out of celestial form but these feel like they should be slightly longer.

Cultivated Synergy and Lingering Light seem redundent as well with all our other heals, replace them with triats that can help provide some offensive or defensive support outside of heals.

Can’t really think of much more with how the spec is limited in terms of design but along with some buffs to core Ranger and more pets to chose from it could help.

Anybody got any other ideas?

Yeah I do feel like “We Heal as One!” is going to get a CD increase, I hope not though.

Zenith.7301:

I love how people are acting like the heal is gonna be great with shouts, after you SPEND A TRAIT to give shouts regen and swiftness, waste a utility slot on a useless shout like Guard that does nothing for anyone.

And you WASTE your heal just to copy the boons to you even if you might not need the heal right now but will in the future.

All so you can selfishly gain protection by wasting your heal. Remind me again how slotting the useless ranger shouts helps anybody in your team?

Because swiftness and regen are terrible boons that are easily stacked by ele/guardian without needing to waste a trait.

P.S. The more I think about it, the worse the druid traitline is. If I play greatsword/longbow druid, and I take the Druid traitline to access glyphs, the minors won’t benefit me at all.

The minors are all about healing and outgoing healing, yet none of the ranger weapons besides the staff heals, so the druid minors would only be benefitting a DPS ranger in Celestial form only, where he’s doing ZERO DPS.

Heal as one is going to open more boon based builds for us in PvP and more solo focused/self reliant areas (open world, WvW roaming, random zergs) but you are right bringing Guard for prot isn’t going to be one of the better ones.

Rangers problems in dungeons and future PvE content isn’t going to be fixed by 1 buff to 1 heal, though at the very least it could allow us to share our might stacks to the pet without having to spec nature magic, which is a fairly useless trait line for pve apart from that trait.

The giant middle finger that is druid is a whole other problem.

Considering the female human staff animation makes your character look like she is very smug about the brain damage she has just received, I prefere it this way.

Fyrebrand.4859:

Druid looks really interesting, but I am somewhat concerned that it’s too niche as a dedicated “heavy healer.” What applications does this have in open-world PvE, solo play, world bosses, or even the current dungeons?

This. Druid is too focused on just one thing and seems to have been designed with the idea that they want healers in raids (after we came to this game being told that we won’t need healers) and thats not even unique. What is druid going to provide outside of heals? Why won’t parties just bring a bunch of different classes who can all buff and heal each other and themselves, why would a Druid be needed? Why should it be taken over an ele placing down water feilds then blasting them with all their different blast finishers? Why should druids be pigeonhold into one mode?

Chokolata.1870:

Quite honestly, the QoEmp should be a 20% damage boost and a 20% reduced damage taken in its inverted form.

This is a great idea.

Olcon.9506:

The off-dps support builds I’m working on will allow the Druid to help with might stacking and boon duration, fwiw. Not as good as a warrior, obviously, but to say that the Druid will be able to only heal and do nothing else is pidgeon-holing yourself in a depressive 4×4 box in the dark. It’s like everyone is completely forgetting about the glyphs and the ranger’s utilities that already exist.

Have some creativity, guys.

Unless it can provide 25 party wide might by itself it isn’t needed to help with might stacking.

Azure.8670:

The reason why this post is so ridiculous is because the druid is going to be mandatory for so many things.

Copying my post from somewhere else

Considering how focused Druid is on healing to the exclusion of everything else the only way it will be viable is if they force so much unavoidable damage on us in raids that a pure healer will be needed. If they don’t do this (and I’m sure we all hope they don’t because it throws out everything the combat system was based on) then the entire spec will be pointless.
Its just an amazingly poorly designed spec.

1) Chrono (lots of thought went into this and you can tell with the interesting new tools, the synergy with base Mesmer and it can be used in so many interesting ways)
2) Herald
3) Reaper
4) Berserker
5)Daredevil
6) Scrapper
7) Tempest
8) Dragonhunter
9) Druid (No thought went into this and you can tell the lack of interesting skills, all skills basically being an aoe heal with no variation or diversity, no synergy with base Ranger, no synergy between staff and its mechanic and just 1 shallow way to use the line)

Puck.9612:

Tragic Positive.9356:

Puck.9612:

Holy kitten… with the “we heal as one” change “Guard” may have just become the best skill in the game. 10 seconds of swiftness, regen, protection, and stealth on a 12 second cooldown? Yes please.

Stealth is, sadly, not a boon. It’s an aura.
It cannot be stripped, converted nor stolen.

Everything else – yes. It’s gonna be cool the first few days till it gets nerfed. But then again – BM bunkers (like myself) have some nice days ahead.

Oh kitten , that’s right. Anyway I guess it’s still all on a 16 second cooldown since it needs to be based off of HaO’s cooldown. Still even if they nerf it to 50% I’ll be pretty happy with an extra 5 seconds of protection every 16 sec.

Although to be honest I may end up dropping the skill all together on most of my builds and using QZ in it’s place for that extra long quickness and super speed. I’m not sure yet.

I really can’t wait to try these changes out. It’s kind of sad that I am much more excited about these balance changes than I am the druid spec.

Yeah this buff to Heal as One is far better for the class and build options then Druid. They relly did drop the ball there.

I agree, no thought was put into this, the entire design process seems to be ‘meh just make this skill aoe heal too’ no synergy with the base class, no real synergy with the different parts of the spec, nothing done with the pets, no diversity it what it can bring to a group.

This is made doubly funny as Staff and celestial form basically serve the same function (spamming out heals) so taking both compunds the lack of diversity in what Druid can offer.

mistsim.2748:

Aomine.5012:

Screw the heal bot.

you don’t need to heal anyone but yourself. use celestial form for its utility and to heal yourself up. druid trait line enhances just about every offensive build.

Levetty.1279:

Looking at the tool tip Staff auto has a cast time of 1 and a quarter seconds. I don’t know where you are getting good damage from.

Irenio was doing about 2.5k damage with no stats, just with the AA.

Looking at the live stream again its pretty obvious he was talking about the tooltip. He isn’t doing 2.5k hits with 0 stats. He certainly isn’t critting that much with the base 4% crit chance you have with no precision.

Ancestral Grace really needs to be a port, thats my number 1 change if we are stuck with this instead of giving it the redesign it needs. Of course most everything else needs some buffs/changes in some way as well.

Bryzy.2719:

All of that won’t be much good if they’re all dead because the new content is too hard-hitting though, will it?

So a set of classes mitagating damage, cleansing condis and healing each other while actaully killing the things attacking you will die but a Ranger with nothing but heal spam won’t?

dsslive.8473:

Levetty.1279:

Ellye.9123:

The fact that you have a one spec focused on Healing doesn’t suddenly means that healing will be obligatory.

Considering how focused Druid is on healing to the exclusion of everything else the only way it will be viable is if they force so much un avoidable damage on us in raids that a pure healer will be needed. If they don’t do this (and I’m sure we all hope they don’t) then the entire spec will be pointless.

Its just an amazingly poorly designed spec.

It does have more than just healing tho. It has condi removal, projectile defense and overall control. They have knockback, immo’s, dazes as well as the ability to make their allies do higher damage and even an AoE stunbreak. But you can ignore that and focus just on the healing part ofc, that works.

Glyph of empowerment is way too short, even if people bring a druid they won’t want them wasting time with that utility.

All classes have condi removal and they don’t have to wait a few seconds for it to work either, partys will want reflects not to turn the projectiles into healing bolts. Stun breaks need to be on demand not hidden behind a form change. All classes can have CC woven into their support or dps specs and since its only use is to try and reduce a break bar its not really adding anything to the party when the party already has that covered.

Bryzy.2719:

Levetty.1279:

Bryzy.2719:

Levetty.1279:

Also the ‘zerker cancer-meta’ is more thought out indepth and uses more of the games mechanics then stnd in the corner and spam heals.

Oh, so stand in the corner and spam damage?

Sure if you don’t know how pve works go do that.

Whether you like it or not, Anet are making a conscious effort to move away from the zerker meta in future updates. They have recognised a flaw in gameplay and so too have most others. Guess you’ll have to deal with it.

Did you even read my post? I said the Zerker meta was more thought out and complex then this 1 note joke of a spec, I didn’t say ‘OMG PLS DON’T TAKE ZERK META AWAY’

Just like the zerk meta teams don’t actually bring the max dps spec of each class and instead sacrifices some dps for them to bring support to buff the dps of other classes, raid groups won’t bring a druid because it does nothing but heal. They will bring a chronomancer who can spam their well heal well while providing alacrity and quickness, they will bring a quardian who can throw out damage mitagating and condi cleanse while throwing out some passive heals, they will bring an ele who can take a break from massive boon generation and high dps to drop a water feild then start blasting it like crazy, they will bring a rev who can jump into ventari to heal then jump back to another legend to fill a different role, they will bring an engie who can do simalar with their kits. Hell if a Necro finds its way in somehow they can bring their life siphon aura just to add some extra few ticks and all this would add up.

Ellye.9123:

The fact that you have a one spec focused on Healing doesn’t suddenly means that healing will be obligatory.

Considering how focused Druid is on healing to the exclusion of everything else the only way it will be viable is if they force so much un avoidable damage on us in raids that a pure healer will be needed. If they don’t do this (and I’m sure we all hope they don’t) then the entire spec will be pointless.

Its just an amazingly poorly designed spec.

Bryzy.2719:

Levetty.1279:

Also the ‘zerker cancer-meta’ is more thought out indepth and uses more of the games mechanics then stnd in the corner and spam heals.

Oh, so stand in the corner and spam damage?

Sure if you don’t know how pve works go do that.

Dojo.1867:

They create this new boon and a super heavy support spec

Its not even a boon spec, its just heal spam.

Wow what a childish thread title. I told you if you want hugbox go to tumblr with the otehr childish people.

Also the ‘zerker cancer-meta’ is more thought out indepth and uses more of the games mechanics then stnd in the corner and spam heals. Ignore it all you want but other classes are going to bring group heals and more support, unique buffs or damage.

zinkz.7045:

Aomine.5012:

I picked ranger because it is a class in most MMO, tend to be the highest damage range class of the game.

You realise that not all MMOs are the same right?

Yeah, this one didn’t used to force healers on to you.

The problem with druid is that it only does one thing and that 1 thing is not needed nor is it unique. I’ll copy these two posts I made in another thread to elaborate.

This is one of the main problems with the extreme tunnel vision of this spec. Why are you going to bring in a druid who is spamming out heals when your party will will include plenty of classes providing multiple kinds of support.
You could have a Guardian thorwing out some passive heals while applying aegis, blinds, reflects and condi cleanse and stab while doing decent damage, a Chrono who can spam MoP and shatters with the heal traits and their aoe heal well while also providing reflects, condi cleanse party wide cooldown reduction and quickness as well as a rev who can sit in ventari for when the healing is needed then swap to Shiro or Glint for better damage and other types of support.
Those 3 will provide more then enough group healing that a druid will be pointless and all 3 will be providing other things to the group as well.

The point is that those other classes (and ele and Engie) can throw out some heals while doing what they need to do that got them into the party in the first place. Lost of small heals even without healing power and everybodies self heal will add up and keep people alive, all druid provides is healing.
Compare it to the zerk meta, most build composistions don’t actually take the classes highest dps build, they swap out some damage for support that helps buff up the damage of the other classes. In the teams that do raids they will do the same with healing, swapping it out for support and damage to make the overall group work better.
All druid can provide is healing, its actually less complicated and thought out then the much maligned zerk meta.

Why bring a druid when the other classes will be working together to provide what it can do and much much more?

Combine that with other problems like how tagging/credit works, the state of base ranger, fairly poor glyphs and the fact we were told this is the game to come and play if you don’t want to be dependent on healers and it makes by far the worst elite spec.

It won’t. One of the many flaws with the whole concept.

mistsim.2748:

Aomine.5012:

Screw the heal bot.

you don’t need to heal anyone but yourself. use celestial form for its utility and to heal yourself up. druid trait line enhances just about every offensive build.

Hows it enhance the standard LB/GS

Wilderness survival +signet of stone offers better utilities/heals.
Beastmaster has the better cc + damage combo.
Then for the third trait line you have:
Nature Magic is better defense.
Marksmenship/Skirmish offer much better options for damage (what with druid having none).

mistsim.2748:

Irenio was doing about 2.5k damage with no stats, just with the AA.

He also refered to signet of stone as a glyph. You are all pretty naive if you think a weapon based around healing is going to have ranged damage on par with longbow.

Looking at the tool tip Staff auto has a cast time of 1 and a quarter seconds. I don’t know where you are getting good damage from.

Good luck with this thread. A vocal minority of people are spamming the boards with praise for druid trying to create a hugbox while unable to see that min maxing other classes support abilities in a group makes a spec line who can only stand in a corner spamming heals entirely useless.

Did they say when these were coming? I missed the begining.

Ehecatl.9172:

Holy biscuits! Heal as One may well be our strongest heal now. Imagine how easy it is for rangers to get 25 might now that we can just copy it from our pet!

That plus the condi damage on pets… Oh man. Our condi damage dealing friends are going to be lethal now if we take the 700 condi damage base from the new pets and assume the others will have AT LEAST this. 700 condi damage with 25 stacks of might we can maintain permanently…

Power rangers with a condi pet could be the new meta.

Combine that with those new HoT pets drools

We heal as one buff is crazy.

Pets finally getting a condi stat is great.

MDG and Natures Vengeance are meh as always.

Can’t wait too see what else we are getting and I’ll repeat We heal as one sounds amazing.

I don’t understand what they were saying about Focus.

Sword Damage increase not bad. Hope blurred frenzy is getting it too.

I prefere the celestial theme to a more typical nature theme but claiming celestial is a nature theme because planets are natural is the same as saying Engie is nature themed becuase he uses wood and metal he dug up from the ground to make his guns.

Last time Ranger had a bunker build usable in high tier PvP it resulted in pets being nerfed across the board in all modes.

In real life Druids killed animals.

I wouldn’t bring this up but people seem more then happy to bring up real world rangers when people talk about our bows.

tetrodoxin.2134:

Still wondering what they meant with elite specs that only feature an offhand will get something “just as good” as a full new bar of skills. I assume that’s what you meant with 2h vs offhands.

Yeah I presumed it was the initial pattern that was emerging of 2h get their f skills replaced while off hands get an additional f skill (which I’d argue isn’t really something as good) but then we got the triple whammy of Theif, Engie and Ranger blowing that theory out of the water.

While I wouldn’t mind a spec that can result in us not having a pet, the new pets are the only good thing about this reveal so I’m fine with keeping them for druid.

kiwituatara.6053:

I still don’t think Druids will be used in PvE instances much.

Yeah min maxing and synergies between classes are going to keep them out unless they get big buffs in damage or some other type of support.

Wolfey.3407:

I absolutely love Druid, I think it’s worth my time and guess what? If I get bored of healing I Could always…wait for it … wait for it….
DROP THAT TRAIT LINE FOR ANOTHER!!!!!

But I doubt ill get bored of being supportive

And if Chronomancer got bored of being an alacrity/quickness providing support spec it could…change a few traits around and be a burst Chronomancer or an interupt Chronomancer or a control well Chronomancer or a party stealth spamming Chronomancer or a heal spec Chronomancer because Chronomancer is a fully fleshed out trait line with interesting new tools.

Knighthonor.4061:

Levetty.1279:

This is one of the main problems with the extreme tunnel vision of this spec. Why are you going to bring in a druid who is spamming out heals when your party will will include plenty of classes providing multiple kinds of support.

You could have a Guardian thorwing out some passive heals while applying aegis, blinds, reflects and condi cleanse and stab while doing decent damage, a Chrono who can spam MoP and shatters with the heal traits and their aoe heal well while also providing reflects, condi cleanse party wide cooldown reduction and quickness as well as a rev who can sit in ventari for when the healing is needed then swap to Shiro or Glint for better damage and other types of support.

Those 3 will provide more then enough group healing that a druid will be pointless and all 3 will be providing other things to the group as well.

because none of them not specced into Healing will heal as well as a single Druid.

Healing stats will be made important in HoT.

Also part of the raid will have tank members. Only 10 slots.

likely 2 tanks and 2 healers, and all else berserker DPS and other forms of hybrids.

The point is that those other classes (and ele and Engie) can throw out some heals while doing what they need to do that got them into the party in the first place. Lost of small heals even without healing power and everybodies self heal will add up and keep people alive, all druid provides is healing.

Compare it to the zerk meta, most build composistions don’t actually take the classes highest dps build, they swap out some damage for support that helps buff up the damage of the other classes. In the teams that do raids they will do the same with healing, swapping it out for support and damage to make the overall group work better.

All druid can provide is healing, its actually less complicated and thought out then the much maligned zerk meta.

Knighthonor.4061:

Got an infraction. But I still stand by what I said. You dont like healer Druid, dont play it. I will play and enjoy it. Your loss.

If I wanted to play a stand there and fill a bar healer I would go to a game where you get credit for doing it and the healing mechanics are more interesting.

If I wanted to play a healer in Guild Wars 2 I would play as one of the other classes who can put out healing and actual support or even damage thus actually being useful to the team.

BurrTheKing.8571:

Levetty.1279:

BurrTheKing.8571:

I’m confused as to what some of you wanted. Did you want top teir DPS when there’s already plenty of offensive options available? Would you rather be in the situation Warrior is in where the spec basically offers nothing really new in terms of role and is basically just side grade and probably won’t see much serrious use?

Its basic 1 note support through heal spam when most other classes can provide decent group healing while offering damage boons or soemthign unique to the party and has direct competition from Ventari legend which is on a better class.

We have no idea what raids are like. The current support on zerk teams might not be enough. Hopefully it doesn’t become mandatory but if it does then I would think that’s a positive thing for Ranger mains. Also, I see some good potential condi builds. Maybe Settlers?

The most boring form of bar filling being mandatory is good for Ranger mains?

Sounds like he misspoke.

Eval.2371:

WvW though druid is going to be sooo fun.

Maybe if you want to stroke your kitten for some useless GvG fights, everywhere else though you are going to get 0 credit for how you heal your zerg in WvW.