WP is basically Anets marketing arm at this point.
His response to the reaction to Mirage is all you need to know about whether the spec will be worked on.
(edited by Levetty.1279)
If you want to grind out the very expensive materials and learn the rotation for support Chrono in raids use a boost on a Mesmer.
If you want to play any other part of the game don’t touch Mesmer with a 10ft pole.
What are you talking about? The focus of the mirage is a name and an art asset they wanted to use. How is that not a good idea? /s
A good point somebody brought up in another thread is what exactly is the role of the axe?
It seems like an in your face damage weapon but the damage is too low and nothing in the Mirage trait line supports this play style and Mirage doesn’t synergise with the core traits that might help this play style.
What is the role of scepter?
Mid range hybrid weapon/clone generator.
There axe is close range condi weapon with clone generation. And some ok mobility.
It seems like an in your face damage weapon but the damage is too low and nothing in the Mirage trait line supports this play style and Mirage doesn’t synergise with the core traits that might help this play style.
Literally my only complaints with Mirage are that mirrors don’t persist long enough in the world, and that infinite horizon feels mandatory.
Idk why so many of you seem to be under the impression Mirage is just completely worthless and unusable, it seemed very solid to me, just different due to the dodge mechanic.
We have been quite clear why over multiple threads.
A good point somebody brought up in another thread is what exactly is the role of the axe?
It seems like an in your face damage weapon but the damage is too low and nothing in the Mirage trait line supports this play style and Mirage doesn’t synergise with the core traits that might help this play style.
What is the role of scepter?
Mid range hybrid weapon/clone generator.
Funnily enough I just swapped my Power Ranger to Sword/Axe + Axe/Warhorn mostly for the fury but I was impressed with how Axe/Warhorn plays. If they could give us back the missing bounce for the auto and as Krispera said if they could unsplit splitblade, it would be a great set.
Sword needs buffs though.
A good point somebody brought up in another thread is what exactly is the role of the axe?
It seems like an in your face damage weapon but the damage is too low and nothing in the Mirage trait line supports this play style and Mirage doesn’t synergise with the core traits that might help this play style.
Remember how all these terrible thigns were true but for some reason Ranger used to get nerfed with every patch.
Unlike other off hands though, an axe would interact with the Mirage axe trait, especially if the phantom axe had better power scaling. Sure that doesnt help the other off hands but the point is for power mirage to have a reason to use their elite weapon without also making the power ambushes redundant. Sword leap is pretty good except for the clunkiness and the GS really isnt as terrible as its billing. Give it a modified Imagined Burden effect by default (2 stacks might from you, 1 per clone; 2 stacks vuln from you, 1 per clone) and its a solid ambush.
It could also have the novelty of a 4/5 skill set with no phantasm to help Power synergise Mirage a bit more.
The damage is terrible and the cast too long, a small amount of vuln and might isn’t going to fix that.
If they are going to remove our dodge under the pretence that we can carry on attacking then these ambush attacks need to hit like trucks.
Small amounts maybe; but hit a mirror, ambush, cloak, ambush, cloak, ambush with 3 clones out and you have 15 stacks of Might and 15 stacks of Vulnerability. Given that I didn’t even post a duration, if you want more than that then I question your objectivity.
As for the cast time, that’s a problem across the whole Ambush spectrum that needs t be addressed.
So I’ve got to dance around with the broken mirror mechanic and throw away all my endurance for something most classes can do with 2-3 harder hitting skills. I question if you play the game.
LMAO a condi thief player crying over condi cleanses.
Your build is like top cancer in PvP and WvW roaming, you have no grounds to cry.
Nice assumption, but if I take the time to post about my experience vs a vanilla LB/GS don’t you think there is something more to it than just getting outplayed?
I ended up switching to power d/p staff after my first two failed engagements as condi because I did notice straight away how consistent the removal was with saffron scented poultry soup (100% chance to remove a condition when you use a healing skill, +70 healing power). I was able to beat him as power much faster than I ever did with conditions. So did I really get outplayed on my condition builds? Maybe, or maybe his setup was carrying him to counter a condition damaging class.
Sounds like your power build was carrying you.
Unlike other off hands though, an axe would interact with the Mirage axe trait, especially if the phantom axe had better power scaling. Sure that doesnt help the other off hands but the point is for power mirage to have a reason to use their elite weapon without also making the power ambushes redundant. Sword leap is pretty good except for the clunkiness and the GS really isnt as terrible as its billing. Give it a modified Imagined Burden effect by default (2 stacks might from you, 1 per clone; 2 stacks vuln from you, 1 per clone) and its a solid ambush.
It could also have the novelty of a 4/5 skill set with no phantasm to help Power synergise Mirage a bit more.
The damage is terrible and the cast too long, a small amount of vuln and might isn’t going to fix that.
If they are going to remove our dodge under the pretence that we can carry on attacking then these ambush attacks need to hit like trucks.
Being a side grade to core Mesmer would put mirage behind all the other core classes, let alone the HoT or PoF elite specs. I don’t know why people keep saying this about elite specs when it obviously isn’t true.
That said if Mirage was a side grade to core mesmer it would be better then the downgrade to core Mesmer it currently is.
… and a general history of how our development has gone down, it’s not unexpected to just get one or two underwhelming changes as the expansion drops.
For plain old balance patches I would totally agree with you, but not for X-pacs!
I remember Chrono was one of the cooler new elites in HoT, and was mostly well received from the start, but I remember especially DH triggering a huge kitten-storm of negativity.
Then in one patch Anet simply hugely over-tuned some of the numbers of the DH skills, traits, and utilities without changing anything about the base mechanics at all. Suddenly most people were happy, and it went on to become one of the most popular professions to this day. (And it received a continual stream of nerfs ever since…and sadly well deserved ones.)
Anet also caught a LOT of flak about HoT being too much of a power-creep, so I don’t blame them at all if they are more careful this time around. I’d rather end up with a balanced or even slightly underperforming Mirage that ends up getting buffed up, then getting a clearly OPd Mirage that ends up being nerfed over and over again.
We as players are often quite schizophrenic. We want an expansion to be cool, we gripe when our class doesn’t get clearly OPd stuff handed to it, and then when we do, we gripe about power creep! (Because naturally all the other classes had to get OPd stuff as well to be cool and enjoyable to play.)
The difference is that DH wasn’t fundementally broken from a design point to begin with and was sitting on a solid base in core Guardian.
Mirage cloak is worse then a normal dodge in any way that matters. The mirror mechanic doesn’t work. It isn’t a good fit for the game in any mode. Running around to hit the mirrors to get a cloak throws away the advantage they claim mirage cloak gives you with being able to carry on attacking while dodging. Core Mesmer has a massive problem with its Phantasms vs Shatters design and now Mirage makes it worse by making it Phantasms vs Shatters vs Clones. Throwing endurance away for damage isn’t the best idea on a class as squishy as Mesmer.
This is all before we get to how undertuned the weapon, traits and utilities are.
This is before we even get to what new ways to play Mesmer this spec is supposed to add.
This was the guy who during Mirages reveal said a 600 damage unload ability that costs endurance was OP. Not sure what you expected.
This is important.
I feel like a good way to improve Axe ambush and its trait is if the phantasmal axe bounced 2 times help give a bit of AoE to the weapon. Obviously improve its power scaling as well.
Anet could delete entire trait lines and claim thats an elite spec and people would defend them.
No, an elite specilization is supposed to introduce new ways to play a class along with new mechanics.
Mirage is a worse way to play the dueling theme that the core Mesmer was based around.
Stun break on dodge is bad for the game. Especially on the best 100-0 class in the game.
Thief has a stun break on dodge?
Mesmer Burst > Thief Burst
I’m confused, first you say thief has a stun break on dodge, now you are saying it doesn’t.
You know you should be more into overall game balance.
It’s the best way tbh
Well thats why I am confused, I didn’t know thief had stun break on dodge but then you came in here and said it did. Why?
Please stay on topic of the thread instead of trying to derail and bait people.
Thank You
You came in here and said thief had stun break, I’m just asking why. Stop trying to throw this in other peoples faces when you are the one who came in and went off topic, with false information.
You swap out a more useful trait line and the ability to moa people for a low cooldown elite.
Pointless.
Stun break on dodge is bad for the game. Especially on the best 100-0 class in the game.
Thief has a stun break on dodge?
Mesmer Burst > Thief Burst
I’m confused, first you say thief has a stun break on dodge, now you are saying it doesn’t.
You know you should be more into overall game balance.
It’s the best way tbh
Well thats why I am confused, I didn’t know thief had stun break on dodge but then you came in here and said it did. Why?
The correct solution is to actually give Mesmer an elite spec with new mechanics like every other elite spec they are adding with PoF.
Stun break on dodge is bad for the game. Especially on the best 100-0 class in the game.
Thief has a stun break on dodge?
Mesmer Burst > Thief Burst
I’m confused, first you say thief has a stun break on dodge, now you are saying it doesn’t.
Stun break on dodge is bad for the game. Especially on the best 100-0 class in the game.
Thief has a stun break on dodge?
The damage increase from Sic’em is one of the best things about Soulbeast, why would you want to remove it? Theres already enough condi utilities, this is our only power one. I agree about making it work like the Warrior shout though.
Because Rangers are so used to having terrible damage for so long, that when it reaches "Almost competent’ levels, they get scared of it.
16k+ mauls are stupid.
16k mauls were a thing before this and nobody cared.
So… spend 30 dollars merely for one elite class? That is beyond Mesmer being your main or not; I get there are peeps who ONLY focus on one char and nothing else and whatever that’s cool for them but PoF offers far more; but to each their own, I don’t see many ppl wanting a refund if Mirage happens to start off not where it was hoped to; things change.
The class is how you interact with all those things though.
The damage increase from Sic’em is one of the best things about Soulbeast, why would you want to remove it? Theres already enough condi utilities, this is our only power one. I agree about making it work like the Warrior shout though.
Not saying i want to remove it, i’m saying, as many of the veterans here, there will be a 99,99% chance of an smack nerf of the 40% damage buff before even PoF is released. Same as the AOO trick with the maul.
And before they destroy another shout i’d like them to give something back and make the shout still useful.
This is true, from the history of things slipped into the game for ranger that weren’t intended they were all nerfed, very quickly as well. You saw evidence of that just this week with the stance sharing bug. You will also notice Dolyak Stance never got fixed for us to even test it. You can see how fast things get patched that really help the ranger even if they are obvious bugs that should be fixed.
The maul proc is not intended, it’s obvious, and in light of that it will get nerfed.
The sic’em working on us in Soulbeast is not intended either obviously, this is a pet only buff and since it has already been asked numerous times from people asking devs if that is working as intended, there was no response.
As a ranger, please take this advice from somebody who has mained this class since the beginning of the game and has seen my fair share of in-intended things given to ranger to only have them nerfed and that is:
If you see something that is questionable whether it was intended or not, and it’s obvious from the tool tip that it most likely isn’t but you’re still questioning it, and that very same thing HELPS the ranger while at the same time the devs haven’t responded to the concerns of the ranger playerbase then it’s most likely not intended, and it will 99% get nerfed.
How is this unintentional? Traits and skills that effect pets effect the Ranger instead in Beastmode.
These are great ideas.
I didn’t buy it so no. Didn’t see a need to rush out and buy it especially as they announced the demo weekends.
Now other classes have specs I like and there is other good stuff in the expansion but the Mirage is so poorly thought out it has killed my interest in the expansion. If Anet is going to give me a middle finger I don’t see why I should give them money.
I have a similar problem. After playing Mirage I’ve lost interest in playing the game, Soulbeast is great fun and almost exactly what I wanted out of a Ranger Elite spec, Scourge and Firebrand seem pretty good too but Mirage is just so bad I just feel completly dissatisfied with the expansion and don’t see a point in playing the game anymore.
I would be very surprised if Mirage ever gets any change to thier mechanics at any point in this games life, no matter how bad they are.
Like its a mesmer its not suppose to be a direct damage class.
That is a pretty bold claim. Have you got a source for that?
I think Jaunt is fine as it is because if you increase the range too much it becomes too strong. I love that it is useful to both power and condi specs. I’d rather have 3 uses out of it that are short range than a nerf that makes it only 2 charges for longer range.
I prefer the current design of it because it plays into the strengths of mesmer: positional play with potential for bursts. It’s critical that it have multiple charges with relatively short recharge on the ammo.
I think folks are looking at it as another teleport and are missing out on how useful it is for so many different situations.
It doesn’t need less charges to make up for buffing it. It just needs the buff.
Yeah Phantasmal haste effecting clones is a great idea.
My guess is he has gone Firebrand with spirit weapons and he got confused and thinks he is playing a Mesmer.
Ambush attacks
I’ll repost what I put in the traitthread.
I don’t know if I want Infinite Horizon baseline anymore. Ambushes are definetly balanced around the idea we pick this and should definetly be buffed whether this becomes baseline or not. Either buff the ambush attacks and make this baseline or vastly buff the ambush attacks and keep this a GM trait.
As for what buffs.
Scepter: Standing still leaves you vulnerable. Allow movement while channeling the orbs and increase the amount of conditions they apply.
Staff: Too slow, small hit box, can be reflected and low amount of conditions. Speed it up make it like Druid Staff or Mesmer greatsword so it can’t be reflected and add burning.
Axe: Up the conditions and damage so its worth using over the auto attacks. Also I agree with Fay, make them unblockable so our melee attack doens’t end up thrown back in our face.
Sword: To make it viable to use this instead of the standard GS power burst it needs much higher damage and bug fixes since it isn’t working with interupt traits. Probably even 3x the current damage. It also needs that damage buff for PvE where Mesmer is hurting for decent damage power attacks.
GS: Same, buff the damage up 3x its current amount, since its weaker then an auto attack with longer cast time, and have it hit 5 targets. Some good aoe then thats worth giving up a dodge for. Throw in some conditions baseline and increase the damage of the direct attack portion of the phantasm and it might even become a decent weapon for large scale WvW.
First you need to be able to either spec into damage or condi.
Nomad’s Endurance should also provide bonus Power and Precision or maybe even a % buff to power and condition damage, to bring it up to par with other specs similar traits.
Speed of Sand is a band aid fix, and them admitting, that Mirage cloak is worse then a normal dodge. We shouldn’t lose a second minor trait to try and fix a problem the first minor trait causes. Since they will be keeping Mirage cloak then roll it into that trait.
I don’t know if I want Infinite Horizon baseline anymore. Ambushes are definetly balanced around the idea we pick this and should definetly be buffed whether this becomes baseline or not. Either buff the ambush attacks and make this baseline or vastly buff the ambush attacks and keep this a GM trait.
A new trait to go either in the 3rd minor or a new GM depending on what they do with Infinite Horizon should be to make clones do the same damage as Mesmers, at least with thier ambush attacks. I’ll accept just a straight damage buff triat for Mesmers which would probably be more useful in more areas though due to the problems of illusions but damage on clones could be more interesting since we are forced to use them in this spec anyway.
Self-Deception: CD reduction on deceptions too.
Shards of Glass: RNG with an ICD and the not very good mirror mechanic? No. Change it so it gives Endurance back when we shatter. Still has the problems of shatter vs Illusions but its better then what it currently is.
Dune Cloak: Radius is too small, hard to hit people with it. The power damage should also be much higher, at least in PvE.
The biggest problem of course is Illusions are useless in WvW. The only thing this spec might have brought was aoe condi through staff ambush but that is one skill and its too slow and too weak to do anything in large scale fights.
In roaming the problem becomes the same as PvP, what can this do that Chrono or even base Mesmer can’t do better.
Honestly the 25% lost runspeed is bad now, but once we have the mounts then out of combat runspeed no longer matters and in-combat superspeed is better anyhow.
Are they bringing mounts to WvW?
I’d like to echoe that mirrors don’t work. In PvP and WvW its basically a giant marker to the enemy that ‘hey the mirage is about to run here slap down your aoe fields’. If the idea behind Mirage Cloak is that we can keep attacking while dodging then spending time stopping what we are doing and running after a mirror to get the cloak defeats that purpose. The only way I can fix this is to get rid of mirrors and just have those abilities give you mirage cloak.
Crystal Sands: either needs to send the shards from you to where you placed them, then maybe come back to you and form the mirror there, if they keep mirrors, or keep it as it is but add more shards so they have btter coverage of the area and increase the damage of each individual shard.
Sand through Glass: get rid of the mirror and just give Mirage the cloak after they have moved back.
Jaunt: As others have said the range is too short. 900 would be good. Upping the power damage would give it use in PvE as well as a decent AoE attack for Memsers.
Illusionary Ambush: Reduce cast time and CD and make a stun break. The cast time in particular makes this hard to use in most situations.
Mirage Advance: Make a stun break.
The actual Cloak itself really is just a worse dodge. Being able to carry on attacking is marginally useful especially with how poor ambush attacks are and not really worth giving up the roll of dodge.
Using a defensive resource for more damage thourgh ambush attacks just adds more resource management for a class already weighed down by managing illusions. This could be relieved if the trait line was more like Daredevil where they got an extra dodge and traits that straight up gave them endurance. Mesmer just has vigor on shatter, a boon they already have decent access to anyway.
To be viable in PvE it just needs damage increases across the board. Axe, utilities, ambush attacks.
Increase power and conditions on axe auto attack, ambush and the axe trait. Conditions in particular because then we can replace phantasms with axe clones doing ambushes. With them being easier to set up then phantasms, we can switch target, reduce ramp up times and maybe even throw shatters into rotations and they do cleave.
If they increase damage on axe 2 and 3, particularly power then they will be fairly decent damage on a short cooldown which would help Mesmer a lot in PvE.
Also bring back clones doing damage, either baseline or a Mirage or even Mesmer trait.
The added effect of phantasm summons should have thier damage increased. They should also use your idea of Memsers doing the Phantasm attack instead and then summoning a clone. Phantasmal Force becomes a stacking % damage buff to Mesmer everytime they use one of these attacks, or give themselves might, but now they wear off instead of being permanent. Maybe even add that to base Mesmer.
Axe Skills
Autoattack: The auto is rather weak. The power coefficients are very low and the conditions it applies are ok but not great. The third skill in the chain is quite good, but it takes a while to get there, especially with all the other skills you need to be using.
Suggestion: The power coefficients here need to be increased. The action speed of the attacks should probably be boosted slightly, and the conditions should be increased either in duration or potency.
Axe 2: This skill feels really clunky. It feels like it should have an evade…but has no evade, so you’ll take a lot of damage from this skill if you’re not careful. The dps it does is reasonable for a fairly spammy skill, but the slow animation combined with locked in movement and no evade just makes it very unsatisfying to use.
Suggestion: This skill requires either an evade frame while using it or a much much faster animation.
Axe 3: This skill is just flat out non-functional. On a featureless flat plain it works great, but any sort of terrain will completely ruin it. The initial leap backwards has a wonderful habit of knocking you off of whatever you’re standing on, and the secondary leap forwards will usually just faceplant you into a wall and miss the target. On top of that, it doesn’t even have any aoe component, so you’re getting a really janky leap that doesn’t work for the possible reward of a single target hit of confusion.
Suggestion: This skill needs to get an aoe component to the attack. Additionally, the leap forwards needs to be a proper blink, otherwise it will never function. Remember old iLeap? Yeah, that’s what’s happening here.
I think you were pretty much spot on from your other thread. The only thing I would add is increase power coefficients on skill 2 and 3 and the phantasm axe from the trait.
Also I don’t understand the requirments for clone generation on skill 2. When I first saw it I presumed its so you can use the skill out of combat for more mobility without summoning a clone that then runs off and attacks an ambient creature slowing you down but the range is way too low for that use.
Ooh wait, you are all still stuck in PvP land.. talking about looking at things from a wider perspective.
If you think Mirage does not include unique things then perhaps thats where things have gone bad for you guys, i’m not judging, i’m just saying.
Also about the clones thing.. Mirage can have 3 clones up after a shatter within 1-2 seconds.
Mirage is a PvP spec and terrible at it. In Pve it provides no damage at all and still relies on broken illusion mechanics from core Mesmer. Nothing has changed except a worse dodge and a melee weapon out damaged by scepter.
In PvE Chrono is strong but once again Warrior and Druid support builds provide more group dps through thier buffs and more personal dps at the same time.
Firebrand can provide group quickness, which is more important then alacrity, easier and with higher damage. Renegade can’t seem to easily provide group Alacrity yet but can provide a decent amount with better damage. All Chorno has going for it is providing quickness and Alacrity and tanking in one spec but they obviously designed these new elite specs to break up the Warrior/Druid/Chrono meta and if it stays like that after PoF expect buffs to Firebrand and Renegade. Well Druid is safe till GoTL changes to a boon that other classes can provide, they don’t want to admit they messed up with that trait.
(edited by Levetty.1279)
I disagree with everything you said. The axe is terrible, Mirage Cloak is a worse dodge for no reason, the theme is terrible and it provides nothing new to Mesmer. Elusive duelist is what core Mesmer is. Hell the description for Mesmer on the character creator even refers to Mirages.
Astralaria looks nice though, I just wish Mirage gave me a reason to use it (or nevermore).
If nothing else this thread shows why people have low opinions of the PvP crowd.
Chrono isn’t the strongest spec in the game.
Mirage doesn’t provide new ways to play, just ways to play Mesmer or Chrono specs worse then you currently can.
a Minstrel Chrono if you want.
Do you play open world in Minstral gear?