We’ve been waiting 5 years (since the game came out gw2) for that mesmer get and have a good damage Confusion and Torment mechanic with traits and skills. It is the most similar and close of mesmer from gw1 this specialization, mechanic with empathy or backfire (Confusion and Torment), but deceptions on your foes with mirages clones.
What mode are you talking about? In PvP Confusion and Torment spam has been the only usable build in PvP since the Chronobunker nerfs ripped Chronomancer and what was left of the base class apart. In PvE nobody was asking for Confusion and Torment builds because it was only the last patch that made them any good in PvE and they did that by basically turning them into bleeds.
In addition, mirage sounds like deception, mirage, confusion, not a magician doing direct damage based on power. For damage power, you have other professions or wait on 3º expansión, when they put a new weapon for mesmer, a hammer for example.
If the next expansion takes the same amount of time then the game will be 7 years old, currently there plan for keeping this game going through new players is ‘please tell your friends about it’, I’m not holding my breath.
Some bruiser based spec with high damage and a hammer should have been what we were getting this patch, it would have greatly helped us out in PvE and WvW and actually done what the elite specs are supposed to do of adding new ways to play the class. Instead we get two more years of condi spam, at least we might be able to do that in PvE this time too.
No, thanks. For powers build you have Chronomancer. Let Mirage be full conditions damage, especially this trait “Nomad’s Endurance” is good, +150 damage conditions is very well. I dont like +150 damage power, i prefer damage conditions.
But other than that specific trait, nothing about Mirage is slanted towards conditions. If you check the new elites, that’s an overall design choice: The weapons are heavily biased to a particular playstyle, while the elite isn’t.
Hence I’m thinking that the trait nearly seems out of place, although even with it, a Sword/Sword setup Mirage might very well beat an Axe/Torch or Axe/Pistol Mirage in damage.
What? Axe is condi with kitten power damage, it isn’t even hybrid.The only damaging utilities on the spec both do it thorugh applying confusion. The traits riddle of sand and Dune cloak are both directly about applying conditions, and Nomads endurance which is a minor thus mandatory gives condition damage and no power. Infinite Horizon isn’t going to buff power damage unless they go crazy and make GS and Sword clones do damage, which wouldn’t be the worse ideas to buff their underperforming traits.
I heard somebody say that Soulbeast dagger has the same power coefficents as Sword. If so then Sword desperatly needs something happening to it otherwise it will be screwed.
Looks like Eles are going to be joining thiefs asking for nerfs because we dare encroach on thier territory. Eles can focus on asking for PvE nerfs and thiefs can focus on PvP. Mesmer is promoting unity between the classes.
Looks like this has been added to the patch notes now.
Confusion: Base damage has been increased to match bleed’s base damage; skill-activation damage has been reduced to compensate for this. This change only applies to PvE.
Torment: Base damage has been increased to match bleed’s base damage; movement damage has been reduced to compensate for this. This change only applies to PvE.
Mirage might not be completly dead in the water, still needs burning though.
Wonder what dps you could get out of a condi shatter build currently, doubt it wll be much but I’m curious and don’t have access to the game currently to try.
BogOtter’s interview also had them saying the entire design process of Mirage was, ‘yeah Mirages are in deserts right?’, which explains why it doesn’t appear to be that useful for any mode.
I do find it pretty funny that after all the times people said that Mesmer can’t have more damage because of Chrono’s support spec that all the new damage traits were added to base Mesmer instead of Mirage.
The actual burst will hit harder. We still have no follow up damage if the burst doesn’t kill them and thief got even stronger buffs so I doubt you will get anywhere with it though.
A flat 20% recharge was what I wanted when I thought we were getting a good condi weapon with Mirage. So that is nice kind of. Burning should also apply to Mage attacks and the mage attacks should be stronger base anyway.
I figured an eventual signit update would be used to give dps upgrades to power dps build, these took me by surprise. I think they are going to be pretty useful for WvW and PvP.
Dissapointed that sword, and some traits didn’t get buffed but we know have a crazy amount of good traits spread about and some great synergy, though mostly tied to wilderness knowledge.
Shame about stab from Signet ot the wild but I never thought it was a good source anyway.
Already having a tough choice for what traits/line I want for which mode. When Soulbeast gets added build diversity is going to be insane.
Some of the trait changes are nice, particulary Skirmishing but the Phantasmal trait and Mirage shows that Anet really has no idea what the problems of Mesmer in PvE is.
Looks like we might have a 30k dps power build now for raids but with all the same problems that the condi build has, so that will be used to dimiss are claims of broken mechanics.
Mantras still look terrible.
Overall, the elite specs and patch just seems to be Anet telling me to play my Ranger more.
If the condi DPS builds damage is so low under optimal conditions its a good indicator that mesmer damage is going to be trash in the unoptimal conditions of Open world, especially when you consider that the optimal conditions of Mesmer is so much more narrow then other classes.
You can talk about bursting mobs down all you want but you are ignoring just how much faster other classes are doing it, with skills that are on shorter cooldown. Hell some classes can get close to our burst just by auto attacking.
Its hardly something that only affects Mesmer either, its pretty much across-the-board that most of the new elite specs are handling their mechanics changes in a different way than the first. Weaver isn’t getting “burst” skills on their attunements, Soulbeast isn’t getting a resource-using form change, Deadeye isn’t getting another on-dodge mechanic, Scourge is getting normal skills that use resource rather than just getting a new set of skills on a normal Shroud, ect.
They are getting, new mechanics that interact, synergise with and/or change their class mechanic. We are getting a worse dodge.
Oh also, something might be happening to Signets. On WP stream he mentioned signet buffs it but to me it sounded like it was just Necro. But I heard another streamer (I think Bog Otter, can’t remember) mention it like it was a global buff to Signets.
Whiners for petless ranger need to understand that Ranger is pet class, and if they don’t enjoy it they need to reroll to any of the other 8 professions.
A few educated guesses based on what snippets we have seen.
The fall damage reduction trait will be merged with another trait, I’m guessing the staff trait and we will get a new trait in its place. This is happening with Warrior so I am guessing its the same on all classes.
WP hovered over the normal auto attack of staff and its the same, so burning on staff will still not recieve the buff every other source of burning got when they made burning stack intensity.
Our mantras will get the same recharging mechanic that we have seen on resolve with a new effect on charging it up and a posible buff to the skill activation.
Since Staff auto isn’t getting buffed and Axe auto looks terrible, I wouldn’t hold my breath about any of our autos getting brought up to the level of other classes auto attacks. Possibly a small single digit % buff to sword since they pop up every so often.
If every class is being treated as well as Warrior, we should get a few more trait merges and new traits as well.
As far as I can tell sand shards has no ICD, start considering that and how many ways you can get mirage cloak (hint there’s another trait for this) and you can see some obvious synergy. The question for me is if these mirage cloaks you can pick up also make you evade attacks, if so you can have some high evade and damage uptime, slap some krait runes on and that’s 2×9s of bleed every time you evade or shatter.
4-6 bleeds will knock off half the opponents health and I’m not including the additional condition duration part which will become a free 20% duration almost. This is not a terrible trait at all.
That’s all fine and well, but you need the GM to apply mirage cloack to your clones presumably (there might be an inherent AoE application in a small radius around you, idk). And truthfully, those ambush attacks are really only good if you are throwing off 3 or 4 of them at once. So sharing mirage cloak with clones should be baseline
We don’t really know how good the attacks are and the ability to make clones do that attack sounds like an upgrade not something that should be baseline considering how strong it could be. I don’t want a repeat of HoT where things are just power crept and allowing crazy trait synergy.
Allowing these two traits in the same build would be insane, it would be the old roaming Mesmer on steroids, still might be even picking one of these traits.
We have tooltips for some of them, and they are fairly underwhelming when you can only use them 1 at a time (say, like, if your clones aren’t getting mirage cloak, so only you can perform the ambush attacks).
From what I have seen, it looks like the spec is designed around and balanced around your clones having access to mirage cloak as well, so if we have to trait just to give it to them, then its underwhelming imo. Though the mirrors might automatically grant cloak to the clones as well, which would be different.
I dunno, you’re seeing it as something we have to use, I see it as this is a bonus attack we get for simply dodging. Simply pressing the dodge button shouldn’t launch powerful attacks on its own which is what this trait will do for condi specs with 2 clones up + self.
Not sure if you’re reading the ambush attacks right, the sceptre one can put 5 torment and confusion on a target and the staff one can put 2 onto upto 5 people, just by dodging to activate. Extending that to even 1 clone will put a lot more condition pressure out and we don’t even know what the others do.
In a 1v1 even with 1 clone out infinite horizon adds a lot more damage and attacks other players have to avoid and there only so many dodges…unless you’re a kitten devil.
Except thats all the elite spec does, it doens’t add any other new powerful attacks and the weapon skills are crap. Without this GM trait all the Elite spec gives you is a worse dodge. I would have prefered new shatters and a powerful weapon but instead we got this gimmick that we need to use our GM to even get.
Soul beasts can still use pets and differnt pet choices provides different versions of beastmode. They are also adding 5 new ones. I’m not sure why people think they are throwing the pets away.
Worht noting that Fire Wyverns F2 has a very long cast time and Electirc Wyverns F2 is currently pretty wonky and doesn’t hit the enemy if used when the wyvern is right next to it.
I mean if we have fallen back to making fun of simple mistakes, then I can only presume you don’t have actual arguments against my points about how weak Mirage is.
The CDI was full of people who didn’t play ranger, at least not as a main. The ranger is fundamentally a pet class and anyone who didn’t want a pet simply should have picked something else. There are certainly situations where you may not want to have a pet out (like a longbow ranger fighting a zerg) but the idea that the ranger community doesn’t want the pet is simply false – anyone who didn’t want a pet obviously wouldn’t pick the only class who’s fundamental mechanic is a pet. You might have wanted to be a lone wolf skirmisher of the wilds, but that was never the ranger. The ranger is defined at its very core by the pet.
Cant compare similar abilities/traits between 2 professions.
The Ranger trait Natural Vigor got nerfed and their reason was because it was stronger then the Engineer trait.
When they nerfed natural vigot it was when they nerfed all endurance regen skills and traits across the board. Same way they did with stability not so long ago.
No it was back when Devs sometimes posted on the forum. They nerfed Natural Vigor, we complained and a Dev posted saying it was being done because it was a minor trait that was as good as Engies GM.
The forum has no search feature so I can’t prove you are lying but we all know you are.
Lying? Are you serious? Do you think I’m invested in anything regarding this topic? The vigor thing is not even part of the discussion. You can pick million and one examples in the game of similar abilities/traits with different power levels between different classes in the game.
Why Ride the Lightning is 30 sec CD and Ancestral Grace is 18 sec CD? I gave the same answer to Ele that asked this once on PVP forum, you cant compare similar skills between classes.
They nerfed the trait and then a Dev posted saying outright that it was because it is as good as a Engie GM trait. Directly comparing skills/traits between Ranger and a different class is now fair game as far as I am concerned. Go ask them to nerf Grace or buff RtL.
I forgot about the pledge. Mantra of resolve could help but 24 seconds to build up a charge isn’t exactly appealing. Cleanse on dodge traits is definitly getting a fairly hefty ICD unless it loses the stun break and picking it removes a lot of our condi preasure. All those condi cleanses could add up to be enough I guess but PvP looks like its heading to even more condi spam so I’m not convinced.
You are right about Mirage not being able to shatter as much though so I’m no longer convinced Inspirations will be enough, You do get the condi removal on heal trait though.
Axe is terrible damage and its ambush attack looks worse then its auto attack, so Axe clones are going to be useless. If we have Axe in our main hand and aren’t using axe clones then we are back to spending minutes setting up our phantasms again which 6 years of the game has showed us just doesn’t work.
The amount of panic about your displeasure without even playing the new spec is baffling to me. Calm down, play it in a week. That being said not every new tree is going to make everyone happy. Get over it.
We know the mechanics, we have had 6 years of experience in the game to know these mechanics don’t work, we know the damage numbers and condi durations, we don’t need to play them to compare them to what is in this game.
Not every spec is going to please everybody but being usable should be a bare minimum of what to expect out of an elite spec.
Granted you haven’t tested every single amulet, tree, weapon, and sigil combination with the new tree. You’re just looking for a reason to be angry because the new trait line doesn’t appear to specifically suit your needs, go cry somewhere else until you have a real argument to go off of.
Yeah, stat combinations are going to fix fundemental flaws in mechanics. If only one of us had tried that nomad build with Mesmer we would be damage masters.
This is the PU phantasm mesmer elevated to God Status and is exactly what I feared we’d be getting.
This needs to be nerfed well before release.
Never change Azukas, I don’t know where we’d be without you.
Back in the beginning of HoT where Chrono was broken and required no skill?
Today condi chrono is a nice build that requires skill to play. It’s strong as kitten too.
I’m ok with that though b/c of the skill required to maximize it’s potential.
Clones that stack 30 bleeds, 10 torment, 10 confusion, etc. by you just dodging…..that kitten is broken. Even Wooden Potatoes said it felt EXTREMELY over tuned. He’s a PvE freak….
I love me some target golem DPS arguments. Yes indeedy. Wooden potatoes is an excellent source for lore in GW2. He should stick to that.
Indeed, does alout of damage to a target dummy? Lets nerf it to the ground.
Mirage condi clear and sustain is non existant so Inspiration is still going to be manditory, its illusions generation is crap as well and Dueling has good synergy with vigor and bleeds so I find it hard to see a build that isn’t Dueling/Inspiration/Mirage.
Axe is terrible damage and its ambush attack looks worse then its auto attack, so Axe clones are going to be useless. If we have Axe in our main hand and aren’t using axe clones then we are back to spending minutes setting up our phantasms again which 6 years of the game has showed us just doesn’t work.
The amount of panic about your displeasure without even playing the new spec is baffling to me. Calm down, play it in a week. That being said not every new tree is going to make everyone happy. Get over it.
We know the mechanics, we have had 6 years of experience in the game to know these mechanics don’t work, we know the damage numbers and condi durations, we don’t need to play them to compare them to what is in this game.
Not every spec is going to please everybody but being usable should be a bare minimum of what to expect out of an elite spec.
I’ve just been thinking that mirage could run scepter and axe and would probably perform quite good with that choice. Now what offhand weapons would you use?
Torch seems to be the only weapon that is a condition choice.
Pistol needs to be traited, sword is purely power and focus also doesn’t offer a lot of condition pressure except for sharper images.
So if we don’t take dueling we’re pretty much stuck with only one offhand option aren’t we?
What do you guys think about that? Any ideas on how we could solve that? Should we go hybrid with grieving instead? :s
This is why I have been saying that our offhands should get a buff since finding out Mirage only gets a MH. Torch will be good for burning but mostly because stealth is OP in this game. I wouldn’t dimiss sword outright as the block followed by evade is fairly decent. Focus has no condi but it does have great utility.
I would imagine Staff (and Chrono) would still be a better pick if you can’t decide though.
If its going to happen it is most likely going to happen with the big pre PoF balance patch that is most likely happening next tuesday. If nothing then then don’t expect anything major, maybe just a tweek here or there.
Axe is terrible damage and its ambush attack looks worse then its auto attack, so Axe clones are going to be useless. If we have Axe in our main hand and aren’t using axe clones then we are back to spending minutes setting up our phantasms again which 6 years of the game has showed us just doesn’t work.
I seriously don’t get why so many ppl on the gw2 forum have the logic that get’s them to the state something along the lines of “It’s bad, so it should stay bad but buff the good stuff even more.”
We are playing GW2. This is how they balance. The last 3, i think patches, alone buffed thieves raid build damage while doing nothing to Mesmers.
Its not about buffs anyway, its about trying to salvage this kitten hole of a spec and one of the many fixes it needs is to give the elite spec its main mechanic without having to use a GM. Or would you like them to bring IP back as well?
The new dodge can be used while channeling skills and not cancel the channel. Dodging is no longer a DPS loss. It no longer cancels a heal you might be casting. The new dodge, regardless of GM status, gives the Mirage an ambush attack too. At least for ether barrage, clones do half condi duration. Regardless of which ambush, clones do basically zero power damage too while the mesmer actually does damage. It’s factually better than base mesmer’s dodge in every way.
Dodging not giving a dps loss means jack kitten when our DPS is nothing to begin with. It may give you an ambush attack but its an attack that is based around having 4 clones out and having a certain GM picked, oh what were we talking about again. There was also no reason to tie this in with dodges in the first place. Its not better if it just leaves you standing in harms way.
“Play how you want” has never and will never mean “I can put together some random pile of garbage, call it a build, and expect everyone else to carry my dead weight through content.”
Sorry darling, but we are not talking about trash builds here. We are talking about the NEW elite spec. Get your kitten together before you reply!
Shrug
If the new elite spec isn’t good at DPS, then it’s a trash build for a raid. Not every spec is meant to be used in every part of the game, that’s just how it works in reality.
Well Chrono has a role as support in raids and and condi spam in PVP
Mirage and base Mesmer has a role nowhere. I don’t think its too much to ask that one of them be useful in the biggest part of the game or anywhere really.
Mirage should easily outclass chrono in PvP and WvW roaming. Mirage also looks like it’ll be a strong choice for condie DPS and support I’m WvW group compositions.
Base mesmer is hosed, but so is base everything else, so…
Its hard to tell where everything will fall in PvP but I don’t really see Mirage being better. You are giving up Alacrity and Continuum shift making our elites usable, illusion generation and the defense of shield for a few more stacks of Confusion and torment that is probably going to be nerfed anyway.
Illusions are useless in group WvW, you know this.
