Guild Wars 2

OriOri.8724:

ProtoGunner.4953:

I play Mirage, I had a lot of fun playing it. Watch WPs video, it really shows a lot of synergies etc. I don’t know why Mirage has such a negative backlash. If I never was in the forums, I though everyone is excited about it. I first planned to max out scourge but I think I go with Mirage be cause it was so much fun.

But there aren’t that many synergies if you look closer than a superficial glance. Mirage itself focuses on ambush attacks and confusing people with your clones acting like you, yet it has 2 traits that encourage shattering, without actually buffing shatters.

Mirage depends on clones to achieve the role it was sold on (confusing foes with clones), yet it offers the worst clone generating trait mesmer has.

Mirage is built around the mirage cloak, yet its 1 utility skill with an evade uses an actual evade, instead of the mirage cloak for more synergy.

Mirrors are a mixed bag, but there isn’t any synergy with them. No synergy with core mesmer traits at all. And not a single mirage trait that buffs them. The only trait we have that directly affects mirrors only gives us a chance at creating them, in return for shattering, which means we just lost all of our ambush fodder.

Please point to where this amazing synergy is that mirage has? I can see it being fun to play with staff running illusions/chaos/mirage. But just because it might be fun doesn’t mean it has the amazing synergy that WP sold it as.

Use dodge to give yourself superspeed, use excutioner axe while you have superspeed to travel further.

Thats the length WP had to stretch to defend this “Elite Spec” to get his shill money from Anet.

If you have locked everything down, why don’t you tell us what changes you have made to the elite specs instead of expecting us to pre order a product with no idea what we are getting.

Mayama.1854:

I dont know what you are all smoking, sure the mirrors are irrelevant and their are bugs like that axe port makes you face in the wrong direction but as a whole that spec feels awesome.

It feels like what a mesmer should have been from the beginning, a trickster, a thiefish duelist. Jaunting around and beeing bascialy a 1v1 troll is hella fun. People that cry because they lose their dodge do not realize how broken mirage cloak is in pvp.

Alpha.1308:

it’s the fact that it adds nothing new for mesmers to play with besides like 2 okay-ish additions with Jaunt and the Dodge/Elusive Mind

Its not a fact its your oppinion, I play pvp most of the time and I can assure you that mirage is one of the elites in the game that has a reallyunique play style. Weaver for example has tons of additional stuff but in the end doesnt play that much different from a basic elementalist.

Just because this is your first day playing Mesmer doesn’t mean Mirage is something new to the class, an elusive duelist is how the core class was designed. Your second paragraph basically admits it.

Ojimaru.8970:

Would like to make an important note that the numbers associated with Mirage (and other PoF Elite specializations) are not final and will have changed on launch day.

It will still have the same dog kittene kitten mechanics though.

Playing a game where the developers give a kitten .

Esplen.3940:

Carighan.6758:

Esplen.3940:

I mean… that’s like being skeptical to buy a burger because you don’t know if they use Heinz Ketchup or Hunt’s. If you choose not to buy PoF because the elite spec of one of the professions isn’t what you want, that is.

Independent of which, it’s still always better to not buy into pre-order culture, and instead just buy after release.

You don’t exactly order that burger 10 weeks in advance without even knowing you’ll want a burger on that day, either. If someone values their main’s elite spec enough to be unsure whether they can enjoy the expansion if it (expectably) turns out to be rubbish, then that’s a very valid reason to not throw money at a company for an unreleased product.

Again, you’re judging the entire product on one topping.

You are the reason we have on disk dlc, loot chests, microtransactions, games that are shorter and simpler then games from 20+ years ago, etc.

Not buying an expansion because your elite spec is kitten and the devs are lazy is perfectly fine. Not buying a game because you don’t like the font they used is fine. Its your money and its your free time spent playing the game. Don’t be a consumer kitten.

zealex.9410:

Levetty.1279:

zealex.9410:

Levetty.1279:

zealex.9410:

Levetty.1279:

zealex.9410:

Levetty.1279:

Infact can we get into this great delusion that Anet are going to buff the numbers? It took 5 years for them to give us a decent damage % trait and we are still dead last in DPS builds, even without taking into account how our mechanics don’t mesh with PvE. We are still waiting for CD reductions, buffs to weak auto attacks and the laughable damage of the weak attacks slapped on to Phantasm summoning skills.

Dead last in dps on a golem and dead last on an actual raid isnt really the same.

Yes I said that our mechanics don’t really work on most raid bosses, thanks for agreeing with me.

Dismissing arguements and other ppl points like its a joke wont help you get your point across if you even have one.

I didn’t dismiss your argument, your argument was the same as mine. Mesmer class mechanics don’t work that well in raid boss fights.

Then u missed my arguement.

No I saw it.

Id argue that you cant read then but you were able to understand my previous response so ill just assume you are just picky as to what you are capable of reading and what your are not.

I don’t know why you suddenly decided to troll my thread after we agreed on something but can you please stop going off topic.

zealex.9410:

Levetty.1279:

zealex.9410:

Levetty.1279:

zealex.9410:

Levetty.1279:

Infact can we get into this great delusion that Anet are going to buff the numbers? It took 5 years for them to give us a decent damage % trait and we are still dead last in DPS builds, even without taking into account how our mechanics don’t mesh with PvE. We are still waiting for CD reductions, buffs to weak auto attacks and the laughable damage of the weak attacks slapped on to Phantasm summoning skills.

Dead last in dps on a golem and dead last on an actual raid isnt really the same.

Yes I said that our mechanics don’t really work on most raid bosses, thanks for agreeing with me.

Dismissing arguements and other ppl points like its a joke wont help you get your point across if you even have one.

I didn’t dismiss your argument, your argument was the same as mine. Mesmer class mechanics don’t work that well in raid boss fights.

Then u missed my arguement.

No I saw it.

zealex.9410:

Levetty.1279:

zealex.9410:

Levetty.1279:

Infact can we get into this great delusion that Anet are going to buff the numbers? It took 5 years for them to give us a decent damage % trait and we are still dead last in DPS builds, even without taking into account how our mechanics don’t mesh with PvE. We are still waiting for CD reductions, buffs to weak auto attacks and the laughable damage of the weak attacks slapped on to Phantasm summoning skills.

Dead last in dps on a golem and dead last on an actual raid isnt really the same.

Yes I said that our mechanics don’t really work on most raid bosses, thanks for agreeing with me.

Dismissing arguements and other ppl points like its a joke wont help you get your point across if you even have one.

I didn’t dismiss your argument, your argument was the same as mine. Mesmer class mechanics don’t work that well in raid boss fights.

Durzlla has got to be the only person who still believes that elite specs aren’t upgrades to the core class.

Notice how he doesn’t go around to other class forums and ask for other elite specs to be brought down, he just sits here and insists that the one elite spec weaker then the core spec is fine.

zealex.9410:

Levetty.1279:

Infact can we get into this great delusion that Anet are going to buff the numbers? It took 5 years for them to give us a decent damage % trait and we are still dead last in DPS builds, even without taking into account how our mechanics don’t mesh with PvE. We are still waiting for CD reductions, buffs to weak auto attacks and the laughable damage of the weak attacks slapped on to Phantasm summoning skills.

Dead last in dps on a golem and dead last on an actual raid isnt really the same.

Yes I said that our mechanics don’t really work on most raid bosses, thanks for agreeing with me.

zealex.9410:

Much like with legendary armor total w8 time for first set was 2 years if they ever made a new one it would be around 1 maybe less.

Actually they are not making another.

So by your comparison, they buffed scepter and won’t buff axe.

Abelisk.4527:

Elusive Mind can replace Inspiration.

How can a stun break replace a line taken for its ability to heal, share distortion or provide an extra use of SoI?

What build are you even talking about?

Infact can we get into this great delusion that Anet are going to buff the numbers? It took 5 years for them to give us a decent damage % trait and we are still dead last in DPS builds, even without taking into account how our mechanics don’t mesh with PvE. We are still waiting for CD reductions, buffs to weak auto attacks and the laughable damage of the weak attacks slapped on to Phantasm summoning skills.

“Lmao no one is saying mirage is perfectly viable and balanced.”

next post

“Lmao Mirage is fine”

My fault for feeding the troll.

zealex.9410:

Cyninja.2954:

I find it hilarious how even the most advent defenders of Mirage in this thread by page 3 have started to throw in things like:

- yes it’s clunky but I like it
- stuff can get buffed
- they might change it
- it’s a tradeoff
- people should be less negative, I’m sure arenanet will fix things

Must be hard to defend an elite when the best arguments one can muster when confronted by some basic facts is:“I’m sure they’ll come around to fixing stuff”.

What do people actually think why there is criticism and why people are speaking up? It’s so that arenanet take notice because their trackrecord of fixing, balancing or even keeping mesmer basic functional is abysmal.

Lmao no one is saying mirage is perfectly viable and balanced.

There are lots of people who are denying the huge glaring mechanical flaws of mirage or the lazy, uninspired traits and think just tweeking a number here or there will fix it. Including you.

Durzlla.6295:

You also ignore the ambush skillies consistently, I thought Mirage played significantly differently than Mesmer and actually enjoyed the change in play style.

The entire thread is about attacking when dodging wtf are you on about?

Durzlla.6295:

Both the Axe and the deception skills had ways of breaking targeting on the enemies without using stealth which is also something different,

Breaking targeting is not a new way of playing the class whether stealth is involved or not. wtf are you on about?

Durzlla.6295:

Both the Axe and the deception skills had ways of breaking targeting on the enemies without using stealth which is also something different, and the only real problem with the mirrors is that they exist in the world for way too short and they’re too obvious for enemies to punish you for trying to go to if you’re not using jaunt, and also makes it very obvious you’re the Mesmer since you go bolting to the mirror.

“The only real problem with mirrors is all those mechanical problems which makes them useless and will never be decent just like when the mechanic is used on other classes”

Yes that is what I said, thanks for agreeing with me.

Durzlla.6295:

What it sounds like to me is you have no grasp of mirage and just keep complaining it does nothing new despite that being wrong. It’s obvious that’s the case when you keep hringing up blurred frenzy as an example of base Mesmer attacking while evading better than Mirage despite Mirage being able to evade through any action.

What it sounds like to me is you have no grasp of the basics of the game. It’s obvious that’s the case when you think blurred frenzy isn’t an attack while evading, you think bleed from clones is a noteworthy source of damage in power builds, you don’t know Mesmers can distort through any action and you can’t see that most of the other elite specs are clearly stronger then thier base classes.

Durzlla.6295:

The problem isn’t how Mirage is structured mechanically,

No, that is the kittening problem. Base Mesmer has the problem of Shatters vs Phantasms. Instead of doing a single thing to change this with the elite, like they have done with elite specs for other classes, they completly ignored the class mechanics, no new f skills, no changing the f skills, no change to phantasm summoning skills. Nothing. Instead they just replace our dodge with a worse one and add these stupid mirror things that were obviously never going to work and they were already told were never going to work when similar mechanics were ignored by other classes for being useless.

You keep ignoring this but MIRAGE ADDS NO NEW WAYS TO PLAY, I know you are ignoring it because you can’t deny it but I’ll say it again. Taking away dodges to give you a new way of doing something Mesmer can already do is not a new way to play.

They can buff the numbers all they want but you will still end up with a worse dodge, a mirror mechanic that works against the supposed benefits of this worse dodge, all the problems of core Mesmer and no new ways to play.

No new healers have been added
Nothing has been done about Grace of the Land

Durzlla.6295:

Levetty.1279:

Levetty.1279:

Durzlla.6295:

Cyninja.2954:

Durzlla.6295:

Zenith.7301:

Durzlla.6295:

Levetty.1279:

Durzlla.6295:

Oh I’m sorry I missed the part where you can dodge mid cast without interrupting as well as the part of Mirage that disallows them to use signets, sword, and the domination line.

The whole point of giving us a worse dodge is so we can carry on attacking while dodging. Mesmer provides better tools to do it. Mirage is pointless.

No need to be so confrontational.

Mesmer doesn’t give us better tools to do it though since we can use all of those tools while also having the tools the Mirage has, that’s what my post was saying.

Mirage doesn’t prevent you from using ANY of those tools from the core class, the only thing it takes away is the short roll from dodging, but if you really need that mobility you can trade out your elite for jaunt.

Mirage also takes an entire traitline and replaces it with a completely worthless one that has no throughput or group support traits outside the single two grandmasters.

So, yes, you are most definitely losing something by taking Mirage.

You’re not directly losing something it’s opportunity cost, this wasn’t an argument over “what’s better at support Mirage or Mesmer?” This was “Mesmer is better at evading while attacking” which is blatantly false. If your goal is to be offensive while being hard to hit you’d want Mirage over base Mesmer, and for that role you sacrifice very little.

That’s not what you said though. you exactly said:

Durzlla.6295:

Mirage doesn’t prevent you from using ANY of those tools from the core class

and in this case that is untrue since you can’t take 3 core traitlines with mirage thus you are effectively not able to use all your core abilities. Mirage is competing for a traitline slot and is barely better than the core trailines, which is the actual problem here.

Mirage does not prevent him from taking sword, signers, or the domination line as my original quote was talking about. But nice try.

And the elite specs really shouldn’t be that much stronger than the core specs, they should give a different playstyle, not an upgrade, just as Anet said they wanted it to be. The problem is they kittened up balance wise on the first batch and now everyone thinks elite specs are supposed to be a mandatory upgrade for you based on your role.

Well theres the problem isn’t it. You have two choices Durzlla

1) Elite Specs are better then core: Mirage is useless because its weaker then core Mesmer.

2) Elite Specs are sidegrades to core with new ways to play: Mesmer already has better tools to dodge while attacking, Mirage adds no new ways to play.

Still waiting for an answer to this.

Sorry, thought I had replied to this.

1) I fully agree with you if elite specs are supposed to be better than core, Mirage has low numbers, I’m not arguing with that, I just assumed the numbers would be buffed.

2) I disagree that Mirage is worse at dodging and attacking, since it literally does that better with the new dodge mechanic on top of what mes already has. will say that it’s got worse mobility than Mesmer though.

1) The mechanics are fundementally broken. Unless they buff the numbers up so Mirage axe is some auto attacking beast and you ignore most of what the elite spec offers but even then you will just end up a worse DD.

2) It adds no new ways to play. Mesmer provides ways to avoid damage while still attacking and then has dodges for when you need to move away from where you are. Mirage takes those dodges away.

ProtoGunner.4953:

The whining again. This forum’s community is so predictable, now I am biased and when I start to play Mirage I wonder what the whining was here. Remember the Tempest before HoT release? Same whining etc. and it became one of the most popular classes…

The problem is that Tempest wasn’t poorly designed around features anybody could see was never going to work on top of a core class whose own class mechanics fight against itself and are useless in large parts of the game.

So when Eles complained about tempest being support focused they could just ramp up the numbers and give them a spec that was the best at everything.

If they ramp up the numbers on axe to hit as hard as DD staff and and throw as many conditions out as a full engie rotation we are still going to be riddled with contradictory and useless mechanics which look like they were designed for a different game.

Ithilwen.1529:

I spoke to one of the balance team at Pax West. He believed that Mirage was “in a good spot.”

After some questioning, he hinted that ANET’s idea is that the Mirage play around the mirrors, ( which make aoe weakness. )

According to that dev, Mirage is basically fine. I don’t see us getting help any time soon. He also talked about nerfing chronomancer and seemed to feel it was OP.

In my eyes, that’s out-of-touch. We’ll see.

I suppose we should wait and see because we don’t have proof about this but the fact that any part of Mirage got to this point without any of them realising its a complete cluster kitten makes me believe this.

EnderzShadow.2506:

Levetty.1279:

So how are people dealing with no stab and all the CC flying around?

Strength of the pack is used in builds mentioned.

The implication was that SoTP is terrible and basically the same as having no stab.

Its not out yet.

Skuzz.6580:

This has to be the most toxic post on the forums right now..
It started as a whine topic and it basically turned into a bash topic.

No it started out with me showing that Mesmer is better then Mirage and Mirage offers no new ways to play.

Just because you can’t take part in conversations doesn’t mean you should insult people, that is very childish.

So how are people dealing with no stab and all the CC flying around?

Levetty.1279:

Durzlla.6295:

Cyninja.2954:

Durzlla.6295:

Zenith.7301:

Durzlla.6295:

Levetty.1279:

Durzlla.6295:

Oh I’m sorry I missed the part where you can dodge mid cast without interrupting as well as the part of Mirage that disallows them to use signets, sword, and the domination line.

The whole point of giving us a worse dodge is so we can carry on attacking while dodging. Mesmer provides better tools to do it. Mirage is pointless.

No need to be so confrontational.

Mesmer doesn’t give us better tools to do it though since we can use all of those tools while also having the tools the Mirage has, that’s what my post was saying.

Mirage doesn’t prevent you from using ANY of those tools from the core class, the only thing it takes away is the short roll from dodging, but if you really need that mobility you can trade out your elite for jaunt.

Mirage also takes an entire traitline and replaces it with a completely worthless one that has no throughput or group support traits outside the single two grandmasters.

So, yes, you are most definitely losing something by taking Mirage.

You’re not directly losing something it’s opportunity cost, this wasn’t an argument over “what’s better at support Mirage or Mesmer?” This was “Mesmer is better at evading while attacking” which is blatantly false. If your goal is to be offensive while being hard to hit you’d want Mirage over base Mesmer, and for that role you sacrifice very little.

That’s not what you said though. you exactly said:

Durzlla.6295:

Mirage doesn’t prevent you from using ANY of those tools from the core class

and in this case that is untrue since you can’t take 3 core traitlines with mirage thus you are effectively not able to use all your core abilities. Mirage is competing for a traitline slot and is barely better than the core trailines, which is the actual problem here.

Mirage does not prevent him from taking sword, signers, or the domination line as my original quote was talking about. But nice try.

And the elite specs really shouldn’t be that much stronger than the core specs, they should give a different playstyle, not an upgrade, just as Anet said they wanted it to be. The problem is they kittened up balance wise on the first batch and now everyone thinks elite specs are supposed to be a mandatory upgrade for you based on your role.

Well theres the problem isn’t it. You have two choices Durzlla

1) Elite Specs are better then core: Mirage is useless because its weaker then core Mesmer.

2) Elite Specs are sidegrades to core with new ways to play: Mesmer already has better tools to dodge while attacking, Mirage adds no new ways to play.

Still waiting for an answer to this.

While Ranger is in a good spot at the moment history shows us that Anet doens’t mind throwing its trademark heavy handed nerfs out at the class. On the other hand they will bend over backwards to find new excuses to buff thief and its OP mechanics.

MikeL.8260:

I see everyone complaining about the new dodge, I honestly don’t think that this is the problem with Mirage, you get an awesome elite that makes up for the leap, the problem lies in other places like the lack of movement speed, a fairly mediocore new weapon with messy animations/mechanics (why the kitten is it an Axe to begin with?) and Infinite Horizon being close to useless unless you play condi or use sword for the daze.

Because its a massive problem with the spec. Everything else about it is terrible too but the new mechanic is just horrendous.

Look at Scourge it takes Necro’s defensive focused class mechanic and completely changes it into an offensive focused, area control attacks with lots of versatility, giving them things they have been asking for.

Look at Soulbeast, allows them to merge with their class mechanic providing an insane amount of versatility, allowing them to take direct control of certain pet attacks and allowing them to camp the mode for situations where having pets/minions/illusions is useless or an actual detriment, all things they have been asking for.

Look at Mirage, our new mechanic is our dodge, the foundation of the entire combat system, is worse. Thats it. No new or changes to F abilities, no changes to phantasms or how they fight against shatters (oh wait now its worth keeping clones up as well so the whole class mechanic is fighting against itself even more), nothing for situations where illusions are worthless and no new ways to play. Not a single thing we have been asking for.

Durzlla.6295:

Cyninja.2954:

Durzlla.6295:

Zenith.7301:

Durzlla.6295:

Levetty.1279:

Durzlla.6295:

Oh I’m sorry I missed the part where you can dodge mid cast without interrupting as well as the part of Mirage that disallows them to use signets, sword, and the domination line.

The whole point of giving us a worse dodge is so we can carry on attacking while dodging. Mesmer provides better tools to do it. Mirage is pointless.

No need to be so confrontational.

Mesmer doesn’t give us better tools to do it though since we can use all of those tools while also having the tools the Mirage has, that’s what my post was saying.

Mirage doesn’t prevent you from using ANY of those tools from the core class, the only thing it takes away is the short roll from dodging, but if you really need that mobility you can trade out your elite for jaunt.

Mirage also takes an entire traitline and replaces it with a completely worthless one that has no throughput or group support traits outside the single two grandmasters.

So, yes, you are most definitely losing something by taking Mirage.

You’re not directly losing something it’s opportunity cost, this wasn’t an argument over “what’s better at support Mirage or Mesmer?” This was “Mesmer is better at evading while attacking” which is blatantly false. If your goal is to be offensive while being hard to hit you’d want Mirage over base Mesmer, and for that role you sacrifice very little.

That’s not what you said though. you exactly said:

Durzlla.6295:

Mirage doesn’t prevent you from using ANY of those tools from the core class

and in this case that is untrue since you can’t take 3 core traitlines with mirage thus you are effectively not able to use all your core abilities. Mirage is competing for a traitline slot and is barely better than the core trailines, which is the actual problem here.

Mirage does not prevent him from taking sword, signers, or the domination line as my original quote was talking about. But nice try.

And the elite specs really shouldn’t be that much stronger than the core specs, they should give a different playstyle, not an upgrade, just as Anet said they wanted it to be. The problem is they kittened up balance wise on the first batch and now everyone thinks elite specs are supposed to be a mandatory upgrade for you based on your role.

Well theres the problem isn’t it. You have two choices Durzlla

1) Elite Specs are better then core: Mirage is useless because its weaker then core Mesmer.

2) Elite Specs are sidegrades to core with new ways to play: Mesmer already has better tools to dodge while attacking, Mirage adds no new ways to play.

Durzlla.6295:

Oh I’m sorry I missed the part where you can dodge mid cast without interrupting as well as the part of Mirage that disallows them to use signets, sword, and the domination line.

The whole point of giving us a worse dodge is so we can carry on attacking while dodging. Mesmer provides better tools to do it. Mirage is pointless.

No need to be so confrontational.

Traited signits grant invulnerability, remove a condition and don’t replace your auto attacks with weak ambush attacks.
Blurred Frenzy hits like a truck in PvE, not too bad in PvP, and has evade built in.
Still get your two normal dodges for when you want to move.

Alwayshappy.2549:

Levetty.1279:

Alwayshappy.2549:

Zenith.7301:

Curunen.8729:

Maybe I’m seeing things weirdly, but personally found Mirage to be a breeze in open world, much easier and faster than condi chrono – unless they’ve deliberately undertuned the pve mobs’ health in Crystal Oasis compared to similar veterans in say LW3 maps.

Yes it’s still clunky, still needs a lot of fixing and buffs, but the core playstyle flow and damage application felt solid.

From the IH thread:
“Ok this stress test has just confirmed how much I LOVE infinite horizon.

Sod all the other traits, this trait is so much fun to use and synergises really well with burst for my build – ie get some clones out, axe 3, or utility blink then ambush into shatter.

The point is not leaving clones up indefinitely casting ambush – it’s having them all cast one (or two) ambush and straight into F1 or F2. In the case of staff if you position yourself right and with deceptive evasion you can stack a good bit of might.
On axe it’s better to ambush in close range after axe 3 then shatter.

Cooldowns are such you can get a good cadence going in terms of ambush into shatter into melee with things like axe 2, back into staff and repeat.

Either way it’s chewing through the large pve mobs like butter, better than chrono because both axe and staff cleave everything and I don’t even have the right stats to make use of things like sharper images or precision for more direct damage crit (I want to go viper for hybrid but the demo gear was carrion).

Also I find it surprising how much the evade sharing keeps illusions alive in order to shatter.

There’s a lot of issues to be fixed, but infinite horizon must be in game – either basline for the class or as it is now, because it is so much fun to use. I think if it didn’t exist I’d rather play chrono."

The mobs are undertuned. They also nerfed the hounds in the story step from the last build.

More importantly, mesmer has never had issues in open world because illusions often take aggro, drawing the burst skills/cc from mobs onto them instead of you.

Where did you read that? I simply read they already made some changes to the elite specs/maps, but that this stress test wouldn’t show those changes yet. It would be 100% like the previous two preview weekends…

Anyway…I’m not a main Mesmer, but I kinda liked mirage in pvp and I never really agreed with all of the hate, even winning several 1vs3’s, current meta builds included. I wanted to check it in PvE aswell, since I spent most of my time there. kitten , I felt strong. So mobile. So much AoE condi damage, it was insane. At times it still felt clunky and I agree some minor tweaks could improve the situation a bit, but it’s no way as kittenome people call it out to be. There’s a learning curve for everything, which goes for nearly everything.

Once again somebody who doesn’t play Mesmer comes in and tells people with extensive knowledge of the class that they are wrong about everything.

It is getting tiring.

Gee, thanks for making me feel so welcome. All I said was that I enjoy the spec and don’t really agree with all the hate. That’s MY opinion. Don’t like it? That’s not my problem. If you can’t read, and prefer to read what you want to read in order to justify your post, that’s also your problem.

- Never said you guys are wrong about everything, just that I(!) find the spec enjoyable and that I (!) don’t agree with all the hate. If you read that as ‘’You guys don’t know what you’re doing/you are wrong about everything, then I don’t know what you’re doing on a public forum, where everyone should feel welcome/be appreciated.

- Never said I didn’t play mesmer. I said it’s not my main. Doesn’t mean I don’t have countless of hours spent on my mesmer. That’s what you want to read. So that you can cry about someone correcting you again. Grow up dude. Seriously. It’s a forum.

Yeah its a forum, so I don’t know why you came to a class you don’t play and told everybody that they were wrong about the class just to troll. I also don’t know why you are lying about your first post when we can still see it.

Yeah, thiefs are always happy when Memser suffers in PvE. I don’t know why but thats the kind of person who plays them.

They claim they have made changes to elite specs but won’t be telling people till the expansion is released and you are playing it. I still wouldn’t expect any significant mirage changes though.

Very anti consumer to get you to buy a product without telling you whats in it.

Alwayshappy.2549:

Zenith.7301:

Curunen.8729:

Maybe I’m seeing things weirdly, but personally found Mirage to be a breeze in open world, much easier and faster than condi chrono – unless they’ve deliberately undertuned the pve mobs’ health in Crystal Oasis compared to similar veterans in say LW3 maps.

Yes it’s still clunky, still needs a lot of fixing and buffs, but the core playstyle flow and damage application felt solid.

From the IH thread:
“Ok this stress test has just confirmed how much I LOVE infinite horizon.

Sod all the other traits, this trait is so much fun to use and synergises really well with burst for my build – ie get some clones out, axe 3, or utility blink then ambush into shatter.

The point is not leaving clones up indefinitely casting ambush – it’s having them all cast one (or two) ambush and straight into F1 or F2. In the case of staff if you position yourself right and with deceptive evasion you can stack a good bit of might.
On axe it’s better to ambush in close range after axe 3 then shatter.

Cooldowns are such you can get a good cadence going in terms of ambush into shatter into melee with things like axe 2, back into staff and repeat.

Either way it’s chewing through the large pve mobs like butter, better than chrono because both axe and staff cleave everything and I don’t even have the right stats to make use of things like sharper images or precision for more direct damage crit (I want to go viper for hybrid but the demo gear was carrion).

Also I find it surprising how much the evade sharing keeps illusions alive in order to shatter.

There’s a lot of issues to be fixed, but infinite horizon must be in game – either basline for the class or as it is now, because it is so much fun to use. I think if it didn’t exist I’d rather play chrono."

The mobs are undertuned. They also nerfed the hounds in the story step from the last build.

More importantly, mesmer has never had issues in open world because illusions often take aggro, drawing the burst skills/cc from mobs onto them instead of you.

Where did you read that? I simply read they already made some changes to the elite specs/maps, but that this stress test wouldn’t show those changes yet. It would be 100% like the previous two preview weekends…

Anyway…I’m not a main Mesmer, but I kinda liked mirage in pvp and I never really agreed with all of the hate, even winning several 1vs3’s, current meta builds included. I wanted to check it in PvE aswell, since I spent most of my time there. kitten , I felt strong. So mobile. So much AoE condi damage, it was insane. At times it still felt clunky and I agree some minor tweaks could improve the situation a bit, but it’s no way as kittenome people call it out to be. There’s a learning curve for everything, which goes for nearly everything.

Once again somebody who doesn’t play Mesmer comes in and tells people with extensive knowledge of the class that they are wrong about everything.

It is getting tiring.

zealex.9410:

Levetty.1279:

zealex.9410:

Levetty.1279:

zealex.9410:

Levetty.1279:

zealex.9410:

Levetty.1279:

A good point somebody brought up in another thread is what exactly is the role of the axe?

It seems like an in your face damage weapon but the damage is too low and nothing in the Mirage trait line supports this play style and Mirage doesn’t synergise with the core traits that might help this play style.

What is the role of scepter?

Mid range hybrid weapon/clone generator.

There axe is close range condi weapon with clone generation. And some ok mobility.

It seems like an in your face damage weapon but the damage is too low and nothing in the Mirage trait line supports this play style and Mirage doesn’t synergise with the core traits that might help this play style.

Just a mater of numbers

What number could they increase to make mirage capable of being a sturdy front line/in your face fighter.

Why does it need to be a front line in your face fighter? Its build around dodges evades and mirrors which all give more evade up time. The goal of axe would be to abuse the decent mobility it provides with the good evade uptime this spec could do and go in and dish out some good numbers.

I think you have a different axe from the rest of us.

zealex.9410:

Levetty.1279:

zealex.9410:

Levetty.1279:

zealex.9410:

Levetty.1279:

A good point somebody brought up in another thread is what exactly is the role of the axe?

It seems like an in your face damage weapon but the damage is too low and nothing in the Mirage trait line supports this play style and Mirage doesn’t synergise with the core traits that might help this play style.

What is the role of scepter?

Mid range hybrid weapon/clone generator.

There axe is close range condi weapon with clone generation. And some ok mobility.

It seems like an in your face damage weapon but the damage is too low and nothing in the Mirage trait line supports this play style and Mirage doesn’t synergise with the core traits that might help this play style.

Just a mater of numbers

What number could they increase to make mirage capable of being a sturdy front line/in your face fighter.

I rarely actually got a scepter ambush off during the stress test because moving interrupts it.

I don’t know how anybody can play thief with the ridiculous auto attacks they have and think Sword ambush is anything but trash.

I mean if they gave it to us as Sword skill 3 I would like finally having a leap but they say the reason we get a worse dodge is because we can carry on attacking through it but then they give us ambush attacks weaker then our already weak auto attacks.

Pretty good idea.

Did anybody get any time in?

Mirage was as terrible in Open world as everywhere else. Axe provided pitiful damage and tiny condi ticks. Even in open world the dodge was a massive detriment, especially with how squishy the spec is. Staff ambush couldn’t even hit those sand worms that move as fast as well a worm. It also reminded me how laughably small Jaunts range is.

I know power is better for open world but I’ve played a fair bit of base Condi shatter, Condi Chrono shatter and condi Ranger in open world on live and all 3 provide much better open world experiences and neither of the Mesmer builds are that great to begin with.

And just to get it out of the way ‘lol dude its open world just play whatever thats why I use a dps class with full ascended berserkers mesmers shouldn’t have any qol features or a decent elite spec lol its open world lol’ There I saved you the trouble.

OriOri.8724:

30k dps is not bad DPS. And with a 2 or 3 button rotation its much easier to hit close to that than it is on some other classes, so your % DPS will be higher than it might be on another class, which means your actual DPS will probably be higher on power mesmer as well.

Plus, what’s the top class at? 35k dps now? That’s not going to make any difference. If you couldn’t clear the boss with a power mesmer as a dps slot then that extra 5k dps (less actually in reality due to people not having perfect rotations), was not going to make your group beat the boss.

Stop trying to push this fairytale that you have to have the highest possible DPS of any class in order to be useful to a raid group. Most people are not in coordinated groups that are at that skill level to where it matters.

Oh look, completly ignores the mechanicle problems of Mesmer that I brought up, brings up the actions per minute meme as a serious conversation and then accuses me of saying things I never said.

Just another troll.

zealex.9410:

Ryouzanpaku.1273:

Dondagora.9645:

Mirage is a vague concept, not a solid picture.

Exactly this!

I was very hyped about Mirage – finally spec with strong personal DPS and less support role… well not.

My position is now as follows:
- I will not play Mirage if AN will not change it a LOT
- I will play Scourge if AN will not nerf it too much

What ever its issues in pvp theres no dought this thing will be viable dps in pve.

Pls don’t spread lies.

Daishi.6027:

Not sure if just trolling, but I feel like there might be a little to much shade being thrown. :/

He did an update video and amended his statements to somewhat closer resemble the communities concerns. If he was truly 100% in A-nets pocket and his channel was a ruse, and marketing plot, then I doubt that would ever have happened.

He’s just a youtuber who tries to be diplomatic with his core community, the developers who give media passes, and the games core community.

So he tried to do a showcase, and some of it turned out a little misrepresenting… Well hes not a mesmer main, and majority of his videos are about lore. Any experience with mesmer has likely been “Hey! this build works!” and doesn’t over think it.

Maybe don’t assume bad intentions over ignorance and neglect?

Either way he doesn’t explode my “bias against mes” meter.

His follow up videa was just insulting Mesmer players while spreading more missinformation about Mirage. It made it pretty obvious that he can’t take criticism.

Mercurias.1826:

I…Always just sustained illusions when I needed them sustained and shatters them when I wanted to shatter, since it isn’t hard to put up clones to fill the set while waiting for phantasms to recharge. I never got the sense of contradiction people are discussing.

I hate when people who obviously don’t play Mesmer come here to try and say everything is fine.

Yeah just use clones to fill up the slots while you wait for the massive cooldowns, that will help your damage.

Thief forums are over that way.

I thought it was because when you see it you turn 360 degrees and walk away… wait

Kreed.2768:

Anela.3867:

I agree. I love my long bow and since we are Rangers, you would think that would be the main focus.

Ranger =/= ranged.

The term ranger doesn’t mean someone who focuses on the use of ranged weapons, so that’s not a valid enough reason to think the class should be focused around bows.

Do you think Anet has bots set up to post this everytime somebody mentions Longbow?

Remember when they buffed Shattered strength and then a day later nerfed it and went groveling to the PvP community for forgivness because they dared buff Mesmer.

Don’t expect Mirage to get any kind of fixes.

If by viable you mean lower DPS then other classes and has to deal with the fact you can’t change targets sure. I guess just rolling your face across a keyboard is a viable way of playing the game too, not that fun though.