Guild Wars 2

I actually wish we could choose the inquest as a college at the start… i rather like them to be honest.

Its because engineers are based on charr technology if i am not mistaken all engineering is based on charr technology that is to say, guns, rockets, bombs, explosives. If you pay attention to the asura zones you notice that most asura tech is magic based, or magic influenced and even Zojja is an elementalist even though she’s a golemancer and i think that is why.

My friend dropped his asura engineer for this very reason though.

So seems to me from all the information i have slowly been compiling, a vast majority of folks are just saying " spec tanky " or " gear tanky" so what i am getting slowly from all of this is. Use a cookie cutter build/spec that uses tons of toughness/vit or get one shot constantly? cause what sounds like to me…and more i read about it more i feel inclined to agree with them.

One might say just dodge everything but we all know dodging every attack in game is impossible. Worse it seems that AI in game is actually designed to detect any class/player has lowest possible defenses and seek them out. SO again…not only did Anet lie when they said could play the way you wanted, they designed the game to PUNISH anyone that isn’t spec’d heavily or moderately into defensive lines.

i kinda feel lied to by Anet everything i heard was that old system of trinity was gone, wouldnt be any cookie cutters and we could play way we wanted and do all the content but that….clearly isn’t the case here. So i guess will end up like every other mmo with everyone just finding cookie cutter spec and using it and anyone wants to be dps, being tossed to the wayside for more tanky specs?

somehow that…just doesnt sound fun…

Papaj.9035:

To the OP (1st post stating issues):

Not gonna quote everything but gonna comment on this guys responses to some degree here because i feel i need to point out a few things.

Edit: i just don’t feel i should be forced to spec myself into a defensive line just to survive basic mobs. As for gear, untill i come accross a set has 3 stats on it i am sticking to damage spec as its just better for lvling.

First off i NEVER said i was standing in red circles of doom like akitten #8230; what i did say was that time needed to escape is either REALLY short or, are mechanics involved that prevent you from moving. The giant fire elemental in asura zone is a good example, the red circle literally knocks you down when it appears, and kills you a second later. No matter of build, gear, or design will save you this is a broken mechanic.

Secondly, i thought anet said trinity was dead? if so why do i have to spec into a support build, or defensive build just to exist? This sounds like you are saying i need to spec either a support, healer, buffer, debuffer, or controller…well sounds like…a trinity of sorts to me. Are you saying anet lied and trinity still exists in a new form? but wasnt goal of guildwars to remove that element? but if enemies deal 10k damage if look in your direction how cany anyone be expected to play they way they enjoy? sounds to me like anet falsely advertised in this case then.

Lastly and going to say this one last time so people get it through there heads. Is NOTHING fun about having random minions tickle you and dieing from it. I do not enjoy mechanics that support idea that every enemy in a zone should have killing power to destroy me instantly, and i do not support idea that i should have to respec myself just to do a dungeon. If that is the case THEN WHY isn’t there a dual spec option in game?

I bought GW2 because i thought would do away with idea of having to use cookie cutter builds just to do content. As someone that played DCUO at launch/beta i remember being able to do content with out the trinity do to " skill " dodging, rolling, stunning, CCing, debuffing enemy ect… but ya know difference between DCUO’s content like that and GW2? in DCUO not even an arch villian could auto kill me by looking at me…every attack was clearly seen and were mechanics in place to help reduce and deal with damage. GW2 has NONE of that in place! least not for every class!

so i say again…if you enjoy dungeons cool but i dont and lots of others don’t

you assume that the daggers are melee range and they arent they have a nice midrange and have amazing mobility and some nice controls and debuffs. I love style of the daggers but i to wish i wasnt so darn squishie =\ i really wish signent of earth did more then it does…

HoukaKetsueki.6924:

The holy trinity isn’t needed. People can breeze through dungeons, if they know how to play their class and know their role inside the dungeon. I’m thankful they removed it, I laugh mykitten off when I see in the map chat, people specifically trying find guardians, when other classes are more useful. Like the thief, because of it’s mobility and control. Or Mesmer too, because of their utilities. ETC.

problem is anet kind of gave this false image that you can do this stuff with any spec/class and thats not the truth at all… each class NEEDS a certain spec to do it thus…getting people run into the dungeon get owned and are now confused as to why. Now even when they realize it…spec…gear…everything is wrong and have to go grind gold to fix it…and then find others are on skype so they can coordinate a group effort and even then…many bosses have to be zerged down do to the one shot mechanics in game.

I don’t think needs to be a holy trinity, D&D has never used a tank/spank menatality and its worked fine(DM can intelligently make enemies attack whoever) but are also mechanics in game to protect, buff, disable, and stop enemy from doing just that, additionally are plenty of restoration items and spells to keep the party alive…

GW2 tried to make there game like D&D but left out all core mechanics make it work.

sorry but idea people want to PUG these things is crazy…

HellHound.5480:

Lokai.7850:

2: 1 shot insta gibbing: this is a big issue for me and probably ranks as #1 problem i have with the game right now. Idea that enemies should kill you for letting them touch you. There is no remorse, no second chances BAM dead end of story! now some like this idea because makes the game hard… however i am going to counter that with… being hard and feeling cheesey can go hand in hand. Are games are hard and feel rewarding like say Demon or Dark Souls, but the thing is…those games actually pretty good at teaching you the mistakes you’ve made. The problem with GW2 is that you die so fast, and so quickly that you dont have time to consider what you did wrong. red circles appear so fast and give a fraction of a second to respond, sometimes even hitting you with a CC effect moment it shows up so you cant avoid it. Idea that you should be punished for messing up is FINE! idea you should INSTANTLY die for making a mistake in early content is BAD! you need to ease players into the game, or have multiple difficulties, allow players to understand what they did wrong by giving them 3-4 or even 5 mistakes before killing them. Is biggest issue with GW2 right now, insta gibbing from certain specific attacks that have a long wind up is fine, like unblockables in tekken! if you get hit by one you deserved it! but in GW2…pretty much every attack in game will slaughter you instantly.

Um, I dont know how it is in other dungeons, but so far, there is no boss in the game that will insta-kill you.

Now, there are insta gib abilities that will drop you to a down state from full HP,, but thats not instantly killing you. (example: Look at the Lieutenant Kholer fight in AC explore with his harpoon attack)

One of the biggest things I, and my team, has learned is to recover downed players as quickly as possible. In fact, one of the key tactics that I would say is important above all else, is reviving downed players quickly.

I think this is actually intended and designed this way.

doing 100% of an hp bar in a single hit is insta gibbing that isn’t innovative or interesting, anyone can slap 2000% damage on a mob and claim its harder when really mechanics behind fight are super easy, just boss in question does such a high amount of damage you need X gear to do the fight.

if you fall down from 1 attack you died in one hit… you do jack all in a downed state, and rezzing a player is downed is often suicide when boss can now smash them into the ground when they try to rez you.

Sorry but downed state is same thing as dead… only difference is in this game, you can combat rez your allies which is cool! but not fun to be instantly killed by an attack.

3: tone down particle effects they are way way way out of hand. Total Biscuit warned you guys MONTHS ago that this was an issue and you obviously didnt heed his warning. This needs to be fixed,

4: Make bosses insta gib animations more noticeable, and give players more then a second to react. Right now are way to many cases where red circle appears and i am dead or worse i am CC’d from circle appearing and killed a second later(i’m looking at you giant fire ele dynamic event).

5: get away from insta gibbing mechanics… i realize you think giving enemies massive damage and insta killing functions makes a game hard but it really doesn’t…what it does is punish any player doesnt have insane reflexes and makes no mistakes. It is far more enjoyable to face an enemy and trade a few hits here and there before i die, let me experience a battle enjoy a fight and not kill me because boss sneezed on me. I really cant stress how much of a turn off insta killing mechanic is for me…

6: finally… if going to require players to have a certain trait/gear/spec combination for this content i HIGHLY suggest you give us some kind of dual spec system. As it stands no way every class/spec can run this stuff so if you expect us to switch spec every time we do one we SERIOUSLY need a way to swap from a general solo spec to group spec when needed with out having to sink more cash into a trainer.

These are my thoughts on current dungeons and way they feel as of now… i am saddend that i have no desire to grind my face against a saw blade to do these dungeons. Its detrimental to my leveling and a right pain in thekittento deal with over all. Additionally unless insta gibbing mobs go away i just cant see myself doing this stuff… i do not consider insane damage a difficulty factor… give enemies unique mechanics, make the AI smarter, add mechanics make us think more rather then " splat " mechanics…

-Lokai-

The problem i see it and i stated in my own post is the lack of " teaching " and " easing " into the difficulty. The real issue is that when you go into AC you are instantly SLAUGHTERED with out remorse, if you are not spec’d right, have proper team set up, and know exactally what you are walking into its a nightmare.

PUGs? laughable concept you are not pugging those… not with out a gaint repair bill which brights me to my second point. Alot of the content is designed around idea of zerging down certain enemies or running back if you die because your team simply can not take time need to rez a dead player. So what ends up happening is you get handed a GIANT repair bill by the end of it.

I’m not ameture to gaming or mmos but entire idea that every single enemy in a dungeon should have the ability to one shot anyone they look at is to me at least, a terrible idea. Trash should NEVER be harder then the bosses in question either, and i really wish devs would get that through there head. Its not epic to get killed by minion 341 and yet roflstomp the boss in a few mins.

Additionally Anet said during betas was no longer a trinity but is CLEARLY a bold faced lie. Sure the trinity has changed its face, and concept behind it BUT clearly still there. Still going to need certain roles to succeed, and if you dont have them you will get smashed into the ground SO hard its not funny.

Right now i have no desire to do dungeons not so much because they are difficult but because of the general design behind them. I am just not kind of guy enjoys being killed by every tom joe and harry that looks at me funny. Its same reason i hated Diablo 3, and whole focus on random elite mobs being often more difficult then the boss in question. If going to make an enemy one shot a player needs to be very specific needs to be telegraphed and player needs time to avoid it. Right now… alot of enemies just dont give you that chance… have a split second to react and even then they will often dog you till you die even if you pop every defensive move you have.

Fixes
1: tone down general damage in dungeons so people are not being killed by every mob they cross. If going to have a boss basic attack one shot people need to be kiteable so squishier classes can actually stay away from them. I have seen way to many bosses are immune to CC effects( i assume means chill, and such as well i could be wrong i honestly havent tested it) and stop giving every mob 150% run speed or some crap like that REALLY annoying to have 25% base move while in air attunement and STILL have every mob catch me like i’m moving half there speed.

2: adding a general " block " mechanic might be a good idea. In DCUO a very action oriented game, was a basic block everyone had reduced damage by half when they got focused on could use this mechanic to reduce damage till there team could help them. Adding a basic block function i think would be a great mechanic allowing reduction of damage but inability to attack or make any offensive or defensive abilities. could even give shield users some extra benefit while using a shield and blocking.

Untouch.2541:

People aren’t complaining about the lack of treadmill, they’re complaining that dungeons give so little tokens and so little cash/loot (not even exotics, they barely give rares) that running them loses you money if you factor in the repairs.

what he said, from my own experience not so much that they are hard well they are, but its that time spent in one is actually detrimental to over all game experience because it hampers you. You spend a long time doing them and you DIE alot, usually leave you with a fat repair bill unless you are super perfect and never make a mistake and have best group set up.

I personally avoid them sheerly because i need my cash for crafting and skill books i cant afford to spend it all zerging down bosses.

yea cause whole idea that you should die, rez, rush boss, die rez rush boss, ect ect ect is a great concept… oh not its not >> sorry i just dont see it the same way. When i run a dungeon i want a boss is feesable to beat and i dont have to worry about getting one shot because i sneezed….

PSquid.8530:

Best words on dungeons I’ve heard so far:

“Dungeons aren’t PvE, they’re PvP in disguise.”

Like its been said, no one is looking out for you anymore with the holy trinity gone, so take measures to protect yourself.

Except… the trinity isn’t gone…. maybe you should read more closely…

Tank/Healer: now replaced by a support healing or buffing style spec, while any class can fill this roll are clearly some classes that do it better. You are going to get MAN HANDLED! by mobs if you dont have this class with you.

Dps: exists in pretty much same format

Controller/Debuffer: focuses on controlling, debuffing and reducing damage of incoming mobs as much as possible.

So again trinity DOES exist only difference is that is no aggro management, so if you pull aggro you are on your own, but in reality it is your TEAMS job to insure you stay alive by using debuffs, and control effects to try and keep you alive.

So no…in reality if was just a matter of dodging at the time time and positioning alone people wouldnt have these issues THE problem is that are alot of attacks you just cant avoid and if you arent running X class spec/set up you will get trashed… event with the set up people are struggling just to get by.

lol i personally have no desire to do any of the dungeons… at all, untill they remove the whole insta gibbing nature it just doesnt interest me at all.

Barimen.6291:

Lokai.7850:

2: 1 shot insta gibbing: this is a big issue for me and probably ranks as #1 problem i have with the game right now. Idea that enemies should kill you for letting them touch you. There is no remorse, no second chances BAM dead end of story! now some like this idea because makes the game hard… however i am going to counter that with… being hard and feeling cheesey can go hand in hand. Are games are hard and feel rewarding like say Demon or Dark Souls, but the thing is…those games actually pretty good at teaching you the mistakes you’ve made. The problem with GW2 is that you die so fast, and so quickly that you dont have time to consider what you did wrong. red circles appear so fast and give a fraction of a second to respond, sometimes even hitting you with a CC effect moment it shows up so you cant avoid it. Idea that you should be punished for messing up is FINE! idea you should INSTANTLY die for making a mistake in early content is BAD! you need to ease players into the game, or have multiple difficulties, allow players to understand what they did wrong by giving them 3-4 or even 5 mistakes before killing them. Is biggest issue with GW2 right now, insta gibbing from certain specific attacks that have a long wind up is fine, like unblockables in tekken! if you get hit by one you deserved it! but in GW2…pretty much every attack in game will slaughter you instantly.

Are you gearing glass cannon? Gearing for survival and using utility skills that help keep you alive makes a huge difference.

The very first time I stepped into a dungeon I was a straight glass cannon build. I’ve since switched over to a lot more toughness and vitality and it makes a huge difference and allows me to be able to react and not die instantly.

Just checking/offering a suggestion.

Yes i was, and i simply jumped into dungeon with my present lvling spec, and i was pointing out that anet said could do dungeons and content with out the trinity. which is a bold faced lie…

Old MMOs Archetypes
Tank
Healer
Damage
Support/Buffer/Debuffer/Controller

GW2
Support/Heal
Control
Damage

to say that trinity is gone…is kind of a lie…it still exists just different combo of trinity, and no control for tanky characters over mobs. Thus end up with pure chaos, and healing wont keep everyone alive like in other mmos. Damage is pretty useless since get 1 shot for the most part, which leaves you with just tanky/support specs do to damage output of mobs.

The Trinity still alive and kicking anet just used smoke and mirrors to hide it well which is kinda false advertising since they clearly said that wasnt the case at all. Again i love the game just feel mislead….

Krypto.3569:

keep in mind this content is suppose to be fresh, even at 80. If these are a breeze at current level, they will be forgotten at 80.

uhh being fresh is fine, if is a chance to understand learn and adapt to the content. Way Anet has designed dungeons is a " you make 1 mistake, mistime one move, build yourself even slightly wrong enjoy the dirt nap" which doesnt appeal to me personally. I enjoy and love hard content HECK i can still go back and play Ninja Gaiden on my NES and love it even though are plenty call it a cheap cheesey game. The difference here is even that game eases you into the difficulty, teaches you proper way to handle situations one encounter at a time and you do not DIE instantly because a mob touches you.

GW2 on other hand basically punishes players for not being perfect, and gives them no time to learn or adapt. That is my main issue with GW2, is nothing in game to explain you should be a support spec for dungeons, and no time to learn or understand why you died in most cases a boss simply turns toward you and you fall over and you feel confused as to why. Thats big issue for me and why i feel GW2 fails in its pve content.

Being hard is fine, but GW2 feels cheap and cheesey at times which is not a good thing.

What can be done to fix it?

I think biggest step in the right direction is the following
1: Needs to be some hint at how to gear yourself in the game. Most people i hear about are slapping themselves in full damage spec/gear and getting trashed. I am begining to think this is probably biggest wall people are hitting. A nice post on forums or, a page on main forum explaining how you are expected to gear would be a big plus.

2: Damage has to be toned back, on basic attacks and special attacks in general. Need to make it feel like i can run in and deal some damage with out being instantly face planted. But certain BIG attacks need to be CLEARLY animated, and a warning of some kind(red ring is just not good enough) and need to give players ample time to see and react(not saying 30 seconds but 3-5 is good atm have less then a second in most cases). Early dungeons these attacks should do 1/4 of average players damage, with bosses doing 1/2 damage and later on can start killing players instantly for not moving. Ease players into the difficulty…

3: Repair costs in dungeons either need to go away, or be halfed or have durability go down to say 5% and stop or half or what ever but its a big issue right now.

4: multiple difficulties is probably the way to go, allow players to ramp up the difficulty factor boosting drop rates for hard mode, while leaving easy mode for the more casual folks. i know was what exploreable dungeon was suppose to be BUT lets just face facts, right now general GW2 player is kind of put off by 1 shot insta kills, and those that are enjoying it are your more hard core players.

At end of the day i want to like dungeons as i was a BIG time love of 5 mans in other mmos, but at the moment i am just put off of dungeons as they remind me to much dark souls with out the insanly deep combat system and ability to block attacks.

This again is way i feel about dungeons… i have no problem with hard but i feel dungeons right now are a massive step beyond hard.

First want to say, is MY OPINION and nothing more.

After trying my first dungeon and seeing plenty of people complain, i thought was just bad players. I quickly realized why everyone is complaining and not so much that it is hard. What really comes down to are a few points and, i think are things that devs will either change, or will just inform players they are not ment to be played by casuals.

1: I can play dunegons as any spec i want! WRONG this is something i think alot of players are going to have to come to grips with. You can not play as any spec you want! dungeons are designed to be done with a specific set up… while the tank/healer/dps trinity is gone, we now have the support/control/damage trinity instead. Also the MMO mentality of gear and spec that so many are stuck in could say this is the players fault… but really! Anet continually spouted that you could do these dungeons as any spec or class… but clearly this isnt the case. But i could maybe let this slide i mean is basic stuff for mmos right?

2: 1 shot insta gibbing: this is a big issue for me and probably ranks as #1 problem i have with the game right now. Idea that enemies should kill you for letting them touch you. There is no remorse, no second chances BAM dead end of story! now some like this idea because makes the game hard… however i am going to counter that with… being hard and feeling cheesey can go hand in hand. Are games are hard and feel rewarding like say Demon or Dark Souls, but the thing is…those games actually pretty good at teaching you the mistakes you’ve made. The problem with GW2 is that you die so fast, and so quickly that you dont have time to consider what you did wrong. red circles appear so fast and give a fraction of a second to respond, sometimes even hitting you with a CC effect moment it shows up so you cant avoid it. Idea that you should be punished for messing up is FINE! idea you should INSTANTLY die for making a mistake in early content is BAD! you need to ease players into the game, or have multiple difficulties, allow players to understand what they did wrong by giving them 3-4 or even 5 mistakes before killing them. Is biggest issue with GW2 right now, insta gibbing from certain specific attacks that have a long wind up is fine, like unblockables in tekken! if you get hit by one you deserved it! but in GW2…pretty much every attack in game will slaughter you instantly.

3: Gear damage, gold sinks, and Dungeons: if you build your dungeon around dieing alot you seriously need to cut repairs in half, it cost me 1.5 silver to fix my stuff and i only died 4 times before i called it a day. One of my guildies is broke from dungeon runs, and this is a problem… they are not worth the headache involved in doing them… rewards do not justify the time involved…

4: they feel like zerg fests: they really do… they feel like a zergfest… dont feel strategical or, involved its basically run in pew pew hope the enemy dies before you do. I know i personally HATED the trinity BUT least was some coherent semblance of strategy involved. CC, buffs things felt like they made a difference in GW2 doesn’t feel that way…things feel so fleeting that they barely matter… but again sure if i had a balanced group maybe this wouldnt have felt like this BUT still majority of folks i talk to have said this is what they felt like as well.

Reevac.1748:

I see tons of Post about whiny people complaining about how hard the dungeons are.

I Love that they are a challenge. That they require teamwork strategy. I love how I don’t just stand there and shoot or attack a mob and have to constantly be moving.

Please post here is you love or like the dungeons and think they are fine just how they are

(Yes I’m 80 no I don’t have 100% exotic and yes I’ve done them all even explorable)

i think you are confusing " i think they are to hard " with the feeling of cheap deaths, and broken mechanics. Like i told my guild after i explained i wouldnt be doing dungeons, it ISNT that i think they are hard because general mechanics behind it is pretty basic. Its that the design of dungeons is to prevent people from learning how they work. They do not explain the mechanics, no learning or teaching curve, and you die so fast you cant actually figure out what you did wrong.

A great game that was both hard and challenging was megaman, but that game did an amazing job of TEACHING you the mechanics before tossing you to the wolves. you saw hazards before they were thrown at you, often times seeing examples of it. The issue with GW2 dungeons is that… they are designed with idea that you know all the game mechanics, you have perfect spec/build, and perfect class combo and never make a mistake.

Darksouls was also brutally hard but, when you died in that game you understood why you died. GW2 doesnt do that… you have no idea what you did wrong, most of the time hit with things cant even see or are so subtle you dont notice it. Damage is so high from mobs that most of the time you get hit and either dead or lose 90% of your life…is no time to understand what you did wrong before you are dead.

All in all… GW2 dungeons are not enjoyable for alot of people… and i dont think you will see alot of non-gw2 fanboys/girls playing them i personally couldnt give 2 kitten about the story in the dungeons and if i want to see it i’ll get a playthrough… because its NOT worth the dungeon armor set and its NOT worth the repair fee…

I enjoy the concept behind the ele and i didnt want to play a dark caster again, i chose ele… i think only issue is that the ele is suppose to be a glass canon but more like a glass pea shooter… but i also believe Anet realizes this and will fix it. Personally i love my elementalist even if its not best class out there its still super enjoyable!

Arkulin.3421:

Please give us an option to tone it down. This is ridiculous.

this oh god this…. i love particles as much as next guy but… a scene from evil dead army of darkness comes to mind….

i’m blind! i’m blind! i’m blind!

no votes for the skritt? am i only one who finds them awesome x3

male asura does it to its HILARIOUS! =D

doesnt stop fall damage either… but yes i like concept of the skill but it REALLY needs some serious work.

Dorianianian.4176:

I started as a thief, but fooling around with an elementalist just seems not only groovier but just easier, any of you fine badgers agree?

from what i have read they actually do less damage then any other class outright, and require alot of attunement(stance) dancing. I believe the idea is that because we have DOUBLE the skills of any other class we have to swap constantly to keep pace. That said we are kind of a jack of all trades…

but it is kind of disappointing that the mage class seems to be rather weak compared to what typically is. I think i’d have prefered specializing in one or two elements and not using the other two.

Fuzion.7613:

Or you can just carry a weapon in your bag and swap it out of combat.

/thread

yes because stopping, opening my bag, spending the 5 or so mins searching for the gear i need in all the junk, and equipping it seems like a good alternative… i agree at level 7 we need to get a second weapon set slot like everyone else, we just simply cant do it in combat, and should probably have a 5 or 10 min cooldown so we arent running out of combat to swap and abusing it. i have every weapon in my ele’s bag but really annoying to swap all the time.

Edit: probably a way to use a macro system to do it though.

i was hoping mist form would stop fall damage but doesn’t which was even more disappointing ><

Edit: and i totally didnt go " hey watch this" and fall to my death >> and have my friend laugh at me for 10 mins… never happend is no proof!

its linked to that hair style like that on my game to, when i was making my alt(again cause i keep rerolling him! =D) i noticed that graphical glitch.

Gurpsmeister.9068:

Yeh I have to disagree here. I play an engineer and so far I’ve used every single one of the racials to some success. The poison field was fun, the pain inhibitor a riot, technobabble maybe less useful.

As far as the elites tho, 7-series and D-series golems have been huge lifesavers and tons of fun. The mecha suit is sadly underpowered but hey it’s a giggle.

techno babble is a daze this stops enemy from acting for the duration… i’d say might be useful in pvp if you spec around pure control and lockdown.

My thoughts are that most of them are useful ONLY issue i have is the suit and it is that the suits hp is tied to yours. This would be a GREAT oh crap button to use, jump in suit and have it operate like death shroud in that it has its own life bar. So gives you that extra bit of health. Its damage is sub-par but good ability to finish off the enemy. Thats way i feel it should work.

i was more disappointed that asura engineering stuff remained steam punky and didnt reflect the race at all. I suppose it was to much to hope for but…the asura are pretty specific technology wise…it feels odd to play an asura using something looks more charr inspired.

kaloryth.2038:

Lokai.7850:

SOOO basically you are saying we have to run dungeons to have the best stats? even if we hate dungeons and dont want to do them? why do devs do this… it bothers me that i bought this game under the premise that by lvl 80 everyone would have same stats with out a gear grind… but if what you said is true…

EVERYONE is forced or required to run dungeons in order to achieve that level of stat… and it also kind of makes crafting pointless other then for leveling. What happend to the whole dungeon gear was just for aesthetics?

WOAH. Slow your roll. There are max stat exotics in crafting and from drops and I believe even WvW.

well good then that is what i was lead to believe… i just enjoy dynamic events…the dungeons just do not interest me at all. So reading the above post sort of lead me to believe, we had to do them.

if they keep to what they said, wouldnt be any stat increases on gear, and lvl will remain the same. You play for new gear looks and shinies however i keep hearing that dungeon gear has best stats in the game…thus sort of killing that whole concept.

Orbys.4895:

I agree with Eisen on this one. Cultural, Crafted, and regular Dungeon equipment are all closely the same. It just depends on which specific stat you are trying to attain, or which look you are hoping to get.

However, Dungeon armors offer a higher level tier called Exotic. Which costs a substantial amount more in tokens. The stats they offer pretty much dominate any of the other 3 kinds of armor.

You can find them by clicking on the second tab in any of the dungeon vendors at lions arch.

SOOO basically you are saying we have to run dungeons to have the best stats? even if we hate dungeons and dont want to do them? why do devs do this… it bothers me that i bought this game under the premise that by lvl 80 everyone would have same stats with out a gear grind… but if what you said is true…

EVERYONE is forced or required to run dungeons in order to achieve that level of stat… and it also kind of makes crafting pointless other then for leveling. What happend to the whole dungeon gear was just for aesthetics?

keep tabs ob mobs that drop those mats can always go gather mats, in fact i intend to set up a magic find set that focuses on just that purpose. its of course farming but i’m to cheap to buy crap off the AH.

honestly they should have a petless option the necro does after all and its a petclass heck necro petless options pretty potent to.

The main problem is that almost every major enemy in the game and every mob in dungeons can and will one shot anyone isnt tank spec’d and tanks take extra 1 or 2 hits. The idea was to get rid of the need for the trinity… was another game had the trinity but was optional it was called city of heroes. How did they do it? was called stacking support, and controllers… but a bigger underlining issues with the game right now…

it is simply NOT fun to have every enemy just look at you funny and have you drop over dead. I play games because they are fun and frankly… whole concept with pve right now just rubs me the wrong way.

Fact is mobs still have an aggro chart, still attack guy does the most damage, or who is healing the most, they still wipe aggro occasionally the differance is in GW2…you have NO control over this, so if you are spec’d to do damage… expect to die every 2 or 3 seconds. Dodge roll? what happens when you run out of dodge…OH thats right you die… its worse when you realize even basic attacks from these mobs will pretty much insta gib you…

INSTA GIBBING is a terrible mechanic… and simply needs to go the way of the dodo.

isnt a grind… once you have end game stuff you pretty much have max stats grind is sheerly for aesthetics wont effect over all game play.

Raithron.1582:

When playing as a Melee character, you need to be concious of your surroundings. Watch your enemies and look out for their attacks, when you see them coming, roll out of the way. This is what makes combat in Guild Wars so dynamic, instead of just sitting there pressing a rotation of 1,2,3,4,5 over and over again.

Again you are assuming that people like myself are just standing there like in WoW and doing nothing. I was an AVID player of DCUO i understand what dynamic combat is, DCUO was alot more involved then GW2 is and i am talking tankless/healerless fights doing solo stuff not group content which was lame.

Just give a GREAT example of a situation i ran into tonight facing a malfunctioning golem boss during an event. I move in and attacked with my daggers he IMMEDIATLY turns and charges up a rapid fire attack…can not simply dodge once from it have to double roll away. So what happens? he runs at me after since NO way to break aggro even with 10% movement speed SMASHES me with his basic attack dealing 75% of my life bar in damage.

Idea that a boss should 1-2 shot players with basic swings, and unavoidable attacks, when you force them to dodge twice is just broken. again i cant stress enough that i understand how combat works…just not that fun facing enemies can kill you in a single blow or two…and with NO abilities to break combat or reduce aggro from yourself…anyone has a damage centric build is just going to end up frustrated and dieing alot.

Marxo.3829:

Also I forgot dazes, knockdowns and stuns. Add those to my other list and you can see the things you should be doing to survive as melee.

Bosses are immune to control effects… so is hardly viable tactic, any boss can one shot you has perma CC immunity effect.

i believe they do less damage per hit because they have 4 attunments meaning you can pop double the cooldowns of other classes. You also have more verstility they seem to be a catch all class… meaning no matter what spec they are can still heal and support, if you are cycling your attunements you should have a good bit of conditions, and have alot of utility as well. But i can say comparing it to my necro who feels as if he’s doing alot more damage per strike but, then he only has 2 weapon sets vs ele’s 4 so when i am in cooldown stage he’s still able to fire attacks at me.

i do however agree that ele’s are super squishie when not built to tank… could be fixed by making some of earths defense buffs last longer or a utility skill that gives some kind of defense boost. But could also be working as intended.

Marxo.3829:

A lot of people are forgetting about blocks, parries, blindness condition, invulnerability abilities in addition to dodging. If you time these right melee can hold up to mobs pretty nicely and do a whack of damage.

That being said you have to watch the mob’s animations a lot more closely and react a lot more quickly or face a gruesome death.

If i can do it as a mesmer clothy, the rest of you heavier armored folks should too with a bit of practice.

While this sounds valid the problem lies that most of these buffs/debuffs don’t last long enough to matter, by the time you apply the debuff its consumed instantly. And unless have everyone in the group timing these debuffs precisely then generally speaking its gone before it made an impact. Also the whole " hope these pugs are using debuffs…" because unlike in normal mmo’s a vast majority of your quests are in open world, doing dynamic events WHICH frankly should be the games focus.

That said a nice easy solution would be to change weakness to just deduce damage of the target while its active, or add a new condition given to heavy armor wearing classes use certain weapon(say mace on a guard).

Choirboy.7562:

Problem here is, like many have said, boss mechanics are the same than in traditional tank heal dps mmo. If you get hitted by boss or silver mob, you are dead. That leaves the only viable tactic to be ranged and kite them. To me, it feels like we are missing some important tools to fight in dungeons. Also in world bosses I just tend to switch to my ranged weapon, it just works so much better. This is my opinion after completing the first two dungeons in story mode and tried some exploration mode.

Well that isn’t exactally true…the old trinity is in fact gone…however… GW2 does have a trinity and if its not present going to get trashed.

1: Support
2: Debuff
3: Damage

This is trinity in GW2 and for most part it functions in alot of the same ways. Support buffs, your party and helps prevent damage to your group. This is done through defense buffs, blindness and healing. While not always a single class has these always that spec focuses on it. Example a water ele is a support spec. A staff using Gaurdian is a support spec, a mesmer with a staff is a debuff spec and while EVERY class has a little bit of this focusing on applying specific debuffs will be a major thing.

Basically, either bosses need to have damage brought down or players need a way to reduce there damage. Could also be fixed with late game gear, has toughness but at early level at least have to make such a drastic choice its hard to stack enough toughness or vit to matter… is why games like WoW typically have 1 stat for damage and hp…while giving some perma buff gave armor for squishier classes.

I’ll end by saying, nothing wrong with a hard game is FAIR and JUSTIFIED when you die. The issue i have is that many of deaths i’ve experience have resulted from random massive damage spikes seem, to just come out of thin air. With no warning or tell. I quite love Demon/Dark Souls and when i die in that game, usually feels justified since i miss timed something, or screwed up. GW2 on other hand feels like bosses just cheesing to victory.

I think some people are missing the general point some of us are making, idea that you should instantly die because, you chose to be a pure melee character seems a bit silly. Saying you should be ranged or just deal with it is also silly… most of us arent asking for the bosses to become easy, are just asking not to have every boss be a corpse run fest or be downed everytime the boss decides to sneeze on us…that doesnt make us feel epic or awesome…just makes us feel like tissue paper.

Frankly i love melee toon but as it stands i feel forced to be ranged because while sure i can avoid some of damage from boss types, the risk isn’t worth the profit… dealing with huge repair costs, being downed every few seconds, ect i mean come on! we are talking about DPS here, and every second i am downed is a second i COULD be dealing damage as ranged. If want to make damage the deal better increase melee damage by 150% because dealing 50 extra damage as meleee is laughable.

I stand by my assessment melee is just a liability, go into a dungeon with a group of ranged characters and will never worry about being downed or taking damage as bosses will NEVER get close enough to worry about it. Meanwhile melee toons will become less and less played.

if the attacks were telegraphed more it wouldn’t be a problem the issue is that they aren’t! normal melee damage shouldn’t be killing us instantly should be reserved for special attacks. Even Dark Souls doesn’t make enemies one shot you with out some chance to avoid it… and saddly right now… are many enemies just have no tells.

Melesie.5723:

One thing I personally noticed, is that many players (mostly new players in low level areas) don’t try to help downed people get up before they die. Getting 1 or 2-shotted is fine, as long as someone helps you get up before you die for real. On our first run in dungeon story mode, we kept wiping until we made helping people get up high priority. It makes all the difference. Unfortunately, this is not as common with open world boss fights. Also, it is not entirely fault of players. Often, dead NPCs get in the way as well.

Another thing to realize, is that many people have offensive setups when they go to melee, especially when they come from questing to some dynamic event champion. If boss is scaled to say 50 people, getting 1-shot feels like a natural thing to do. There are many people that can help you get up.

Edit @Qelris:
I’ve been to dungeon with a guy who kept getting downed a lot and when we helped him get up, he was always apologizing for the trouble. I really didn’t feel like he needed to, and I think most players have this mindset (I haven’t met anyone who would complain so far). I don’t think you should be worried about it.

While helping a downed player up is just part of the game mechanics i disagree on the " getting one shot by a guy scaled to 50 people" is a good mechanic. Are plenty of bosses in other games that are designed to be faced by multiple people yet generally they will not one shot everyone at a whim. Core problem is that one shotting leaves the players feeling helpless and generally cheated…

Bosses Damage SHOULD not scale massively with number of people, there health should and should probably unlock new special attacks that they didnt have before such as , aoe swipes, cleaves, and the like to deal with additional folks. I will never support idea that players should be insta gibbed because boss decided to swing in there direction.

Also additional problem of being a melee character, in melee, getting 1 shotted and now no one can rally you because doing so is a death sentence because YOU are still in melee range of the boss… are some ranged rez’s but they are on such a stupid long cooldown that i have to wonder if the slot is even worth it.

Is melee worth it? at the moment gonna say no… yes you deal more damage but that extra damage isn’t helping when every boss in the neighbor hood can insta gibb you… trust me in a month or so every major guild is going to require players to be ranged to do most of the content because melee just a liability and just way i see it right now.

As a long time player of many mmo’s from good to the bad… i find GW2 to be great fun but certainly needs some work still.

Salt.4621:

It is difficult to react to what a boss or mob is doing when there are 30 people standing around casting, hitting it. I am obviously not talking about 5 player content. Same thing applies as a ranged player, the idea of players laying down abilities that benefits another player is great in theory but in practise its a complete mess as you really can’t see whats going on. I actually enjoy the game experience more with less players.

This is my issue when i am in a small group and i can see boss no problems …usually anyway, but with 30 particle effects plastering a boss..you just cant see whats going on, and then is whole one shot mechanic. I am not a fan of this… i get that are certain attacks that you must avoid or die, ie a big red circle of doom have a set time to avoid.

My BIGGEST beef with GW2 right now is that are many boss mobs that will just kill you randomly because they aggro’d you, its instant, no warning, no animation(or you cant see it clearly) and deals 90% to 100% of your life instantly. This is in my opinion not a good mechanic, especially when healing you gain is barely scratching over all damage you are taking.

I am enjoying the game but just feels like they designed it to have a tank/healer then removed the option at some point and didnt rebalance the game accordingly… when you do not have someone to absorb the blows you cant have enemies one shot players just with normal attacks heck even 50% health from an auto attack is just to much in my opinion.

I feel they have alot of balancing to do… at the moment i see less and less melee because its just to dangerous…

Mostly speaking from low level content and, could probably be eliviated later on but i’m curious is it me or…is melee just kind of screwed in GW2? seems like almost every boss i’ve seen will systematically one shot anyone in melee range, seems like Anet wants everyone to wield some kind of ranged weapon, and stay at a distance… curious what others think and have experienced on this matter, for me i typically play ranged but i’ve found i quite enjoy melee on a couple of my toons and it feels like i’m being punished for trying to play that way.

Dabrixmgp.4758:

I have tried selling mats I dont need for my crafting skill but people are selling everything for almost vendor cost. Logs it seems no one wants cause they are by far the cheapest. Also its usually just better to sell your looted items to the closest vendor rather than spending silver on salvage tools. Obviously greens and higher should be salvaged but has anyone found a good way to make gold? Do level 80 crafting materials sell for a decent amount? I just leveled my jewel crafting to 400 and tried listing the level 80 stuff I made but it was just better to sell it all to the vendor. Do level 80 DEs give good money and karma? Are there certain mobs to farm that have better drops?

I’ll keep this as short as i can but are a couple of sound ways to make cash easy

1: Dynamic Events: are a few events award a ton of cash simply do to number of mobs that spawn and you kill them. Vendering the trash, selling the mats on AH, or just vendering them in general. This will net you a decent amount walking around doing lvl 15 stuff i easily have around 50 silver atm and continually climb in cash as i quest about.

2: Craft items everyone needs and are a couple that are super easy to make money off of. Tailoring and Jewelcrafting are easy, bags and gems that people slot even normal jute bags sell for around 50 copper on my server, and sell fairly consistently for 10 jute(20 scraps) thats not a bad deal.

3: 100% completion of zones: is probably biggest net to base level cash.. but can only do this once…and some people might say that its a nice boost but not a reliable money getter.

However are 2 other ways to make cash are 100% more reliable, require less work, and can make you bundles fairly effienctly. First is hard and requires some studying, and research to do well…the second is …so much easier…

1: Play the Auction House: this is something that long time mmo players learn to do even if just to a small degree. Example, i saw a ring on AH for 20 copper i know i can sell it for 1 silver, i buy that ring and sell it for higher price and make an 80 copper profit. Learn to do this and can sit at AH for a couple of hours and make more money doing almost NOTHING then people grind dailys and do events.

2: Buy Gems: is even easier then the above and only costs you a little pocket money. Buy some gems with real $$$ exhchange them for in game cash… you just made more then anyone else in shortest time, by doing jack all. So anyone thats BUYING in game cash from gold sellers*slap* CAN purchase it right from Anet! and its 100% SAFE!

All in all those are best ways to grind cash…personally as somone has a steady job i’m probably going to just buy ingame cash as its just easier as i have less time to grind stuff out but, only IF i need it!

alternatively you buy those cheap bags for almost nothing and resell them for proper price… heck i bought a ring other night for like 20 copper and resold it for a silver… sure not alot but, do that to 7 or 8 items and it starts to add up. This isn’t an issue that i think devs can fix but community can fix on its own.