Guild Wars 2

Its funny people still defending the absurd design of dungeons…

I’ll explain to you exactally what is happening and why you guys are getting so badly torn up. Basically design of dungeons come down to REQUIRING specific builds, and " roles " to be filled in order to get through them.

1: Buffer: this build/setup is designed to do one thing buff your team usually come with short term damage reductions, sometimes even healing. Will remove debuffs, and make you hit harder ect with out this you become stupidly vulnerable to damage.

2: Controller: Basically prevent enemy from doing damage, stuns, disables, or abilities that prevent damage. Its probably most important role of any of the, think of them like a tank in other mmos. They stop alot of damage from going out and if is not a troller in your group makeup you will die….alot

3: Debuffer: they put various debuffs on target that reduce damage, or increase damage ect ect. Much like buffer only in reverse.

With out these kinds of builds in your team you rely heavily on sheer luck, or rez spamming… additionally you are going to need some kind of vit/toughness spec of some sort to help you not die over and over again. Some people claim you dont need it but from my own experiences if you arent running at least toughness you will eat dirt ALOT!

Combo fields: learn to use them, personally i find this is probably biggest thing people don’t do. Dropping a heal down a field on ground shoot through it! causes various effects,debuffs, buffs and control effects to be spammed.

Lastly despite all of the above, and trying your hardest YOU will go down…and will be times you cant be rallied…do to various mechanics in game. I personally will never do dungeons and havent done them ever and will never do them… because they are just plain and simple badly designed…

Do all players agree with me? no… but this is way i felt and feel about GW2 it has one inherent flaw…and that is the dungeon design.

Background: i started in the nes era, i could lay claim to atari i did play it but its not what i think of when i think of gaming as a kid. Nes, snes, and genisis come to mind first. Kinds of games was mostly rpgs, final fantasy, dragon warrior, chrono trigger and 7th saga along with the shining force series. I was also a big PC gamer with games like warcraft and x-wing…i remember DOS! =D

Do i like GW2?: answer is i quit playing it for the most part i like to check in occasionally and see how its faring. Truth is game did alot right, world is fun and enguaging, the characters are amusing stories is decent enough to keep me interested(a tad generic) and dynamic events are awesome! the problem? the issue is that they are far more focused on DUNGEONS then dynamic events, and lets face it the dungeons in this game are TERRIBLE!

On top of that the game has this idea that you should be instantly slaughtered for being hit by anything, even stacking defensive traits wont do you much good. They professed there was no trinity in this game but that is a lie. There is a trinity… and if you arent running a controller, buffer, and debuffer set up you are going to get slaughtered… a true skilled based game would be say tera or raiderZ where by if YOU are good enough you can solo any boss in those games, simply because you can avoid every attack. You cant do that in GW2 which saddly makes it more about gear, and group set up and less about skillful game play.

At the end of the day, i play games because they are fun, and while GW2 has alot of interesting mechanics, and probably one of the best questing systems. Its combat falls short, and were design choices i didnt care for at all. I think game is fine for those that like the way the game plays… and if was alot more focus on dynamic events over dungeons i’d probably pick it back up… but as that is not the case…well are other things to play and enjoy.

Welcome to MMO’s i love the " dynamic " part of the game and its one of the core reasons i enjoyed the game. Once i saw dungeons and how they were expected to be played i just all but stopped playing.

Why? all mmo’s eventually focus on raids/dungeons and that is the core content. As someone that doesnt care for dungeons was no point in continuing to play a game i knew would focus on that. I agree with the OP though why is best gear from dungeons only?

Everyone has own opinions on what game should and shouldn’t be like and NOTHING wrong with people voicing those opinions. You say the game is " amazing " i say it had some good ideas that went horribly wrong. I havent played it in weeks and i dunno if i’ll ever get urge to pick it up again… which is really sad because i enjoyed the world immensely…

But does come down to a personal preferance, some people will love the corpse running, zerg fest of a game that Anet designed. Others will adapt and deal with broken one shot mechanics and even if they hate it and keep playing. But then are those like me who just dont care enough to deal with insane learning curve and move on… Anet may well have made a game hardcore gamers can enjoy BUT i’m not convinced that average mmo player or even gamer will ever enjoy this game. I’ve even seen hard core GW1 players say how bad the game is to them…so makes me wonder did Anet fail in the design? will game stay afloat? i hope it does because its still a breath of fresh air even if i personally dont care for it.

-Lokai-

I have played…

UO
EQ2
WoW
Vanguard
CoH/V
CO
DDO
DCUO
SWTOR
DBZ Online(it exists look it up =P)
DFO
Vindictus
Tera
WAR

… i think a couple i am forgetting =P yep i like mmos! that said what does this game invoke? its hard to say its rather unique… that said reminds me quest wise of WAR if only slightly. Its combat feels like a watered down version of DCUO, its PVP i believe is more similar to Dark age of camelot though i never played that, it reminds me personally of WAR done a tad better.

However, that said CoH/V did the tankless system better, yes COULD use a tank in that game, and were healers but neither were required, with right group comp could easily handle any encounter. Additionally, pve invokes memories of demon souls… only demon souls with terrible telegraphs, cheap massive aoe circles, and dodge so limited that hardly have enough of it to avoid 25% of a bosses health let alone the whole fight.

I’ve played alot of mmos, and i’ve played ALOT of other games to i feel GW2 falls short of expectations…that said i love the lore, races, and world in question. The crafting is so enjoyable! but you want to know what game REALLY reminds me of? the devs remind me of DCUO devs…who managed to RUIN there game inside of a few months…

I hate to say but Anet is killing the game, and pve is just not any fun for me personally, and i just havent had urge to pvp yet though i hear thats much more fun. Thats my opinion personally… i like the game just feel were certain design choices were done horribly wrong.

get use to it… higher level i’ve gotten more i notice even stacking toughness/vit on half my gear, still getting trashed as an ele in one or two hits… this game seems to think that insta gibbs are an ok design… which maybe some people like but i kinda hate that i love the game but cant stand pve choice in design.

its ridiculous system… as a crafter leveling up i cant stop every 5-10 levels and grind materials for my next set, or grind materials to level crafting because guess what? DR system kicks in and screws me. Seriously a kitten system and untill its fixed/removed i wont be playing GW2…

Problem is that rewards dont justify the time invested, and difficulty involved in completing the dungeon. Along with rewards being bugged, and entire one shot design of dungeons i think people are turned off of the experience right now, along with WvWvW being far more appealing in design.

i agree with OP why? because i actually farm materials to craft with…guess what i cant do anymore? grind materials to craft with… which means i have to buy it off market and i’m a cheap kitten refuses to spend my cash on those over priced goods.

no you are confused…is a differance between " is no trinity " and " trinity has just changed" the thing people are confusing is " class " trinity vs " role " trinity. The trinity DOES still exist just isn’t in the same form as before.

1: debuff
2: dps
3: buff

GW2 uses this form of trinity its SAME trinity type that CoH/V used when you had no tanker or brute around. The difference being that CoH/V gave you the choice to play how you wanted…

GW2 revolves around a support or a couple of supports dropping down fields to abuse, using support skills, healing, buffing, and defensive cooldowns. The problem is that, most melee either have to DEDICATE entire spec to defensive traits/cooldowns or rely entirely on party to keep them alive. DPS especially melee dps are more of a hindrance then a benefit. Swapping between weapons is all well and good, but in reality benefit far more by just sticking to ranged weapons and never letting bosses get close enough to hit you.

Saying that melee is fine is absurd it isn’t… melee work 3-4x’s as hard as ranged, have less cooldowns focused on damage and more on tanking….

so two things…
1: dont tell me trinity is gone because if you go into a dungeon with out a support spec’d character or two you will eat dirt constantly

2: dont tell me melee is fine because it ISN’T! are several bosses i’ve seen have aoe’s or auras that will almost one shot a melee character with massive aoe radius, and spammability so even if you DO dodge it, and i do… you cant avoid it as often as the boss in question spams it.

odd i find myself playing my old mmos more and more… GW2 is just not for me… i still say only thing it has going for it are…

1: stat progression being a thing of the past
2: dynamic events
3: WvWvW
4: Crafting

past that game falls short in every area… i really wanted to like GW2 but i just cant make myself like it =<

The DR system itself is bogus…it only hurts the game… its like DRM its just an absurd annoyance that 99.9% of players dont want to deal with…

exp loss
gold loss
gear loss
perma death
ect

these were put in to games for one ultimate reason and had nothing to do with punishing players. Was to slow progression down because, was little to NOTHING to do at end game. It was designed to superficially lengthen titles.

At end of the day they didnt really add to the game, and not even a sense of entitlement, its kind of like…giving a kid a tootsie pop, waiting till ALMOST get to tootsie part and then taking it away, and giving them another brand new tootsie… rinse and repeat. It lengthens the experience, of getting to what matters, but never really added to the experience and in most cases ends up more of an annoyance then anything else.

So no i dont miss them, i’m glad they are gone… and i hope they never make a return…if want a hardcore experience go buy torchlight 2, play it on elite and play hardcore… enjoy your stay because, those kinds of mechanics don’t belong in mmos anymore, we have evolved past them.

because metacritic scores mean something right? ask any serious reviewer they all agree that metacritic is a load of crap and always has been. I am not saying that GW2 is bad, but certainly not game of the year… are plenty of other games are far better…

1: Mass Effect 3 has better voice acting, story, and game play and is far more accessable

2: DCUO has better combat system, story and voice acting and is FREE! to try

3: Torchlight 2 has less resources,/funds, and is far more affordable and argueablly more additcing.

GW2 may well rank as on of the top mmos but game of the year? i dont think so…

the thing is… most of sellers spam i see is like 20 bucks for 50-100 gold… so that is… 2.5 gold roughly per dollar spent, vs anets 1 gold for 10 bucks…if anet wants there gold selling system to be viable gonna have to match and beat gold seller prices… and means gonna have to research ect.

Real problem is that if you start selling gold in game going to cause a massive inflation of cash in game. This is kinda why WoW has never did it because it destroys economys.

the OP has legit issues need addressed… he like me wants to like the game but are aspects of the game are just turn offs. As GOOD as GW2 is… i have to ask myself… is it the game for me? right now the answer is no it isn’t… i can get same experience from GW2 from DCUO with out paying a dime, with better voice acting and story progression, and can get same " costume " grind, and arguably a deeper combat system. About only issue i have with DCUO is stat inflation…

Saddly as much as i WANT to like this game… i’m not sure i will ever be able to enjoy it because are core design choices i just dont care for. Does that make the game bad? no… just proves that GW2 is a niche game wont appeal to everyone.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

So basically what Robert is saying; is that we can only be good at one dungeon.

… No comment.

You can be good at all dungeons. Just don’t run them back to back in rapid succession.

why not? why shouldnt they run them back to back in successiong? so you are trying to dictate what players cant and cant do with there time? i’m sorry that just dumb… if that is the case then put lockouts on the content like they do in WoW and call them raids… your system is flawed and frankly poorly constructed.

You know worst thing about this system is it has killed crafting entirely, we cant grind for materials anymore, we cant go searching for regents we need to make new gear because doing so we get punished for it… this is #1 reason i stopped crafting…and probably not be playing till its removed. I refuse to pay stupid AH prices when cash is scarce as is.

i said at launch that melee was not going to be worth the time and effort put into doing it.

Fan boys say: LAWL DODGE

but i retort but what if i have no more dodge meter? what if boss just using normal attacks you cant avoid? what if boss has an aoe hits for 200 yards or more? fact of the matter is melee is at a massive disadvantage… because ONE mistake and its a dirt nap. If you stack tons of defense then you can take maybe 2 hits before you die… and you do such low damage its not worth it…

So as OP clearly stated its either… be ranged or die constantly… its why i stopped playing the game. As enjoyable as setting and story can be… the mechanics of the game are just terrible and not talking idea of no trinity(tank and spank) i’m talking the idea that mobs and bosses should instantly kill anyone they look at.

Insta gib mechanics are bad end of discussion!

think he’s trying to say that burst someone down in 2 or 3 attacks isnt any fun and he’d be right and same goes for pve… getting into combat and dieing in 1 attack is not fun… and i hate to say i’m inclined to agree with him…

burst combat is probably the worst combat…

here is the issue with the anti-farm code… only people its really hurt are crafters…believe it or not i refuse to pay stupid high prices on the AH for crafting mats otherwise i’d be broke. Since this code was introduced i’ve had little to no desire to actually play because i KNOW for a fact that i cant farm materials i need for my crafted gear…which in and of itself is a problem.

Problem might be less of an issue if you didnt need 3-8 or more of the same material just so you can craft one armor part but you DO need alot of the mats. Would be less of a problem if we could buy them with karma but again we cant… so now our choices are… grind for 30 mins log out for an hour log back in grind for 30 mins…ect or ya know just not play.

Why do devs always do something stupid in there games to ruin it… =\

He’s right though the anti-farming code has made me stop playing the game entirely that combined with dungeons being a fiasco… game will straighten out i’m sure but i am kind of taking a break and hoping things get better… plus well torchlight 2 is amazing x3!

I think bigger issue actually comes down to…

playing what works vs playing whats enjoyable

In my experience with my elementalist i cant STAND any weapon but dual daggers. The other weapons are just so enjoyable, and feel lame in comparison. Yet, are TONS of boss mobs that pretty much REQUIRE me to be staff or sceptor to even stand a chance against them. So it comes down to a choice by the player…

Do you play what works and succeed, or play whats fun and enjoy your time in game… if answer is play what works then the devs have failed. If you add a weapon or spec type into the game, and it doesnt work then why does it exist in the first place?

" you shouldn’t play pure dps because you just die constantly"

Then why does it exist? if it doesnt work as a playstyle then why is it there? if you are going to GIVE an option in game it had BEST be viable! its something i thik that Tochlight 2 has done amazingly well! are builds that sound like they shouldnt work in that game, but they do work generally very well at very least its playable! I know difference is night and day as far as game play goes but… the concept remains.

If you are going to let us spec for pure damage, then it had best be viable… if you are going to require us to have spamable CC or other effects just to stay alive, it had best be an option for any spec, rather then just a certain set up.

For me, untill i can play dagger/dagger on my ele and not feel like a burdon to my entire team, i will just not play…since all the other classes dont interest me, and nor do the weapons it comes down to this.

If you arent having fun playing a game, its not longer a game so why play it? untill i am enjoying my time in GW2 i cant see reason to log in…which is sad because game is good but i enjoy the pve… and until pve is reasonable i just cant force myself to endure the horrible design.

pretty much killed my desire to level up my crafting because i am now forced to buy this stuff off the AH because i cant farm it. That inflation you mentionedit curbing? yea this will actually cause crafting mats to go up…since they will be harder to get… its a nice atempt but it will cause more issues then it fixes.

The problem is same issue that early warlocks had in WoW(talking vanilla). While they were perfectly viable class, the amount of effort needed to do well with them, was much higher then other classes. A rogue could simply hit a few keys and stunlock people, while a warlock had to employ every skill in there arsenal just to keep pace.

The idea that a class should be 30x’s harder to use, yet only have same level of strength as other classes when utilized in this way is bad design. Way you want to design all classes is for them to be fun even at the base level, but excell dramatically in hands of a high end player.

Ele is the warlock of GW2 its very hard to use and only a few will ever excell with it and it will probably never be fixed…because in eyes of the devs its working as intended. I love my ele but, i know for a fact other classes can do my duty easier, and with less effort… which has sort of put me off of the game as well since… ele is only class i enjoy =\

Kind of irks me that so many people are just " lawl learn 2 dodge!" the problem is you only have a limited amount of dodge, are bosses are specifically designed to annihilate anyone in melee range, and generally speaking brutalize anyone that isn’t running a spec that allows them to spam sprint/dodge, ect… basically to do dungeons have to do the following

1: have ability to keep a CC effect such as blind or weakness on the target for the entire fight

2: have perma sprint or be able to sprint constantly

3: be ranged for every fight involving heavy hitters

We get it people… we need to dodge… the problem is that dodging isn’t the solution here. Are tons of problems with the current design of PvE. From particle effects to terrible tells, to one shotting skills have a range of half the area or more, to auras that punish anyone tries to get in close.

When it comes to balance you have to insure all styles of play are on a level playing field. The excuse of " well everyone can use ranged" is terrible excuse for making ranged so much better then melee. Yes melee does more damage but as a wise man once said…you cant deal damage if you are face down in the dirt.. so get the F!$$@ out of the fire!

Fact of the matter is ranged are dominate right now, most groups are running ranged because its just easier and safer, melee is not an option for some fights, and punishing learning curve in GW2 is a complete turn off. Want bosses totally annilate your players? want dungeons are so hard core only 1% of your player base gets to finish them? you put those as end game content at lvl 80, with a big " HARD MODE " icon so people understand that those dungeons are for hard core gamers…. and not your average person.

But right now almost every single dungeon is either balls to the wall hard or miss balanced and favoring a certain play style. Anyone that says otherwise is lieing out there teeth… The style of pve for GW2 can work just need to stop the brutal unfair mechanics, and buff melee so they can do more then tickle a boss and die and wait to be rez’d.

i said it at launch and i’ll say it again…melee is not an option in current game for any serious content. Reason being that are to many mobs have massive aoe insta kills…and going to further reinterate what i have been saying as well. Instant kill mechanics are terrible idea… its one thing has me not logging in lately i really hate idea i miss a dodge and now corpse running or, i miss time a dodge and now have to rally back up… its worse for melee then any other class….

they seriously need to make all melee weapons boost defnese by a huge amount or make dodging more viable, as in can dodge 2-3x’s more then you can now because as it stands i can not imagine going melee with any class against any serious boss and not getting splatted every 3 seconds.

Then i am at a loss as to how people manage to do dungeons when the trash mobs glance your way and do 3/4 of your life bar in damage. I know people keep saying " dodge " but most of these attacks don’t have a red ring, have no or little animation time, give almost no reaction time, and trash a player instantly. I know some are saying " use buffs" and " use debuffs" but even with protection buff still losing half my life to attacks cant or give no time to react to.

So to all those can do dungeons peachy congrats… to other 75% of the player base… we are still struggling to understand wtf we are doing wrong. Even if you spec for vit/toughness not going to matter STILL going to get killed in 1-3 hits…and ability to avoid that damage is almost impossible for most of us. So kudos to those can do this kitten…but frankly…

for me it comes down to…

time invested
rewards
effort involved
group unity

and at the end of the day if its taking me longer then 1-2 hours to do a single dungeon, if effort put in is not worth the rewards at end of the dungeon. If i am coming out of it with less then i walked in with. If effort put forth is more frustraiting then " fun" then why should i do it?

Maybe issue is that it comes down to a preference, and enjoyability that varies between people. Some people LOVE difficulty and punching holes through a game with multible runs and tries. But i know that for myself i don’t have the time or the will to do that, and i certainly don’t find it " fun " to instantly die because a mob happend to aggro me.

So what i think we are seeing here is hardcore gamers vs everyone else. The majority of players are either struggling to do this content, or not seeing the point in doing it. I fall into the inbetween category. I don’t see the point, and i don’t feel rewards make it worth the time invested when you exit a dungeon with less cash then you entered with. Rewards require me to do same darn place over and over…and even story mode seems impossibly difficult. On top of it i just dont like instant kill mechanics…just doesnt feel right to me, having attacks just drop a player on every single attack or on most attacks… this just feels cheesey…

Maybe this game isnt for me… but personally as good as the game is i just hate way dungeons play right now.

This sounds like going to make collecting materials for crafting even harder then it was… as someone that loves to craft but hates buying the random drops from AH do to over priced nature of them… i farm for my mats alot(plus combats fun so its not so bad) SO basically.. its going to hurt the legit players more?

i think i agree on one aspect… in other mmos can run a dungeon and get a new peice of armor you can use, in GW2 you have to do that run a few times to afford a single part. I mean in DCUO i can get new armor graphics from almost every run of any area or dungeon, heck even just out in the overworld idea of grinding dungeons for the armor is bad… i think better way to do it is simply drop a token lets you get 1 armor part, still gonna require about 7 or 8 runs depending on how much armor they have a which is plenty in grand scheme of things.

I think issue is that some people are assuming that these factions are evil by there nature, and not exactly true. Especially the inquest, who are a GREAT example! while you continually conflict with them they are pretty much an accepted facet of asura race, the council even accepts some of there practices because while it may not always condone the methods, they cant deny the results.

The nightmare court and the bandit and the sons are far harder to justify and at the end of the day you are more or less asking for open world pvp which i just dont think this game would cater to very well. Not with its present design, and would require an almost entire overhaul of the dynamic events system. Then you run into the whole we have more players then you, lawl roll over your event groups, and not sure would be a good system.

I like that pvp is excluded to a separate world, that have to que into.

Fabsm.5897:

I read alot of posts about “trinity is back”, “i get instashot” etc.

I am really surprised by these comments, because until now, i found my dungeon forays really enjoyable.

Its funny… someone else assuming people are bad and just standing there getting punched in the face. The truth is that a majority of folks understand the concept and are very actively trying to avoid the damage. The truth is that MOST mobs and enemies are either REALLY hard to read, or that some classes just easily killed by these mobs.

First he says that he plays a gaurdian which is one of the better classes in game, have great defenses and a number of skills to buff and or reduce over all damage done to them. Secondly he states he and his team are specing, built, and designed to do dungeons from the get go. He also confrims my earlier statement by saying he and his team are all giving boons(buffer), have a CCer(controller) and are debuffing bosses(debuffer) so they have the trinity i spoke of earlier.

What you need to understand is the people that are coming in and getting wrecked are those that are in a leveling spec, and gear. They had NO idea how harsh these areas would be, and are in the mind set of other mmos specing for damage only because NOTHING in game that tells you otherwise(also not convinced that pure damage should be punished as hard as it is). Further AC is far far far far more punishing then it should be.

Just an example, 5 guildies walked into AC, all of were so excited to do the content. Two of them are lvl 60, all of us are pretty much spec’d for leveling/damage. We had a guard, a thief, an ele and engineer and a warrior so was a nice variety of classes. But because NONE of us were spec’d right, had right gear what happend was the first 2 or 3 pulls just leveled/wrecked us. We tried to dodge/avoid but wasnt enough, at some point one of the adds catching us or a mob getting us from behind. When one died someone would try and rez and the add would just one shot them to.

Basically what i was trying to get at is that this game doesnt teach players how to play there game. In fact almost encourages them to keep playing the way have been in past mmos, since starting gear only allows for a single stat on it, and by the time you reach AC only got 2 stats on it. Nothing that teaches/shows you that you need to have certain stats.

People MAY hate on WoW but if you look at early gear in WoW, it always had stamina on it for extra life. Was very good at showing you that you need these stats on your gear. Further talent trees kind of a guide line for how you wanted to play, while i DONT want talent trees or to be limited in way i can stat myself, and i enjoy some aspects of the game it just DOESNT teach you at all that you need these things before you reach AC.

So by the time you are at the dungeon you are not prepared for it and you just get manhandled, before AC is nothing that prepares you for adds will totally one shot you. even veterns mobs you face in overworld can simply be tanked by standing there(though easier if you dont). So what i was trying to get at is…

GW2 expects you to gear and play a certain way, and does nothing to teach you how exactly they expect that to be. Further i am not so sure i like the idea of being gold i have to play as a hybrid class, or be forced to dirt nap every 30 secs… i don’t know i love GW2 but i just feel like dungeons are a cluster kitten atm.

MadMax.6501:

I have been in dungeons 4 times now. Im not sure if thats not enough to have learned the basics?
I find dungeons very hard and then one of the times it was a breeze.
Problem is i dont know what i am doing or not doing wrong. I simply dont know where to begin or what to look for.
First of im playing warrior with a greatsword when leveling but found out quickly that a gun in instances was better since i get oneshotted all the time. Maybe one of the reasons is that i dont have any points in defence and vitality? Also i know im supposed to dodge i just really cant see the animations to when i am suppose to do this.
The fourth time i was in instance was in CM explore and when we got to the boss in the basement after a serious of deaths from trash. We couldnt even get 10% health of him. I guess we are very noobish or newbieish or both :P
Problem is i dont know what i am suppose to learn and thats why i am humbly asking for help in here

anet expects you to spec for pure defense or die every 3 secs! wonderful system forcing players to play a way they probably dont enjoy =3

Sartori.6758:

So what I got from your post is that you’re an extremely lazy and selfish player who’s unwilling to even do the minimum of swapping a few traits, utilities or use weapons that will benefit a group. All I can say is that there’s a lot of solo and outdoor zerg content for you, and in a month or two maybe you can get carried through a dungeon after the majority of the player base adopts successful builds and strategies.

Hi mr.troll, no i’m saying that expecting players to respec, and regear themselves for dungeons is bad. Its a staple of mmos today do what they can so that players can have a spec they enjoy in open world, but can easily swap around for group content. For example when i am questing and doing dynamic events i don’t always run utilities for defense or, group support.

Switching utilities is fine, heck i often run out o combat to swap a utility in harder fights such as revive utility that ele’s get. The issue is that…if you arent spec’d and geared a certain way, you probably arent going to be optimal, while in dynamic events is slightly less of an issue(though still an issue for example, if i am spec’d for melee and is a boss that insta kills melee i am now at a disadvantage) so now i have to pay to respec myself, then pay for new gear each level so i have 2 sets… then clutter my inventory with 2 specs.

So can i switch specs and adapt to strategy? OF COURSE! but that doesnt make it ok or alright to expect every player to have 2 builds, or build as a hybrid just to get by. So nice atempt at a troll but =3 fail troll is fail.

I like people are claiming to have run AC with out any issues. I am betting they came back 10-20 levels above the required level, had a whole group was spec’d and or designed to do dungeons, and regeared themselves entirely for that situation.

first off… stop assuming i’m some terrible player that doesnt understand how to " gear " myself or how to dodge/avoid damage because i FULLY understand it. The issue i have with the current design is that is no learning curve at all, they THROW you into the fire, with no teaching or training with no hint at how to gear yourself, and absolutely NO idea of what you are walking into.

90% of AC mobs basic attacks will one shot ANYONE who is in a questing spec, secondly EXPECTING people to respec JUST to run a dungeon and regear themselves and then, have to either struggle with a support spec through normal content or, again pay to respec themselves. Wouldnt be as big a problem with we had a dual spec or early gear had some design to it that hinted at way you are suppose to gear.

I get it! need a toughness build, you need to be aware of your enemy, BUT the issue i have is that ANY mechanic that INSTANTLY kills you with out warning or any kind of sign as to why is bad! are plenty of mobs in game that do this, having a " specific animation" that keys into an instant kill in an mmo is poor design for MANY reasons! top reason being latency, followed by mobs being covered in particles and lastly, unclear animations. HAS to be some visual que that a one shot is coming, but most enemies do not have these! anyone that says they do is bold faced lieing to your face!

To end on it i refuse to change my stance, one shot mechanics are terrible in ANY game! idea you cant screw up even a little, idea you MUST be perfect dodge 7-8 attacks, always be watching 3-4 enemies because they can kill you instantly, that i must have 2 specs and pay to swap between them everytime i go into a dungeon, the idea that i have to have 2 gear set ups, and must be a pro player JUST to get anywhere in a game is absurd!

Dungeons right now are only for hardcore players… and thats a bad design you MUST have content that everyone can enjoy, thats why are difficulty modes. Right now dungeons are broken face the facts are way to many cant do them or dont enjoy them this tells you that your content is poorly designed!

Edit: before someone says " lawl it scales you down" better gear/stats still buff you in all content, going back to lvl 5 content in level 60 gear will make you god like.

basically if you want to be melee you have to gear defensively, this means toughness is vital its something i am just now coming to grips with. While i love my power/precision and high damage if we want to take a hit looks like we need to gear for toughness… only really won’t matter cause we will probably still die in one hit to any real challenging boss… and devs seem set on the one shot mechanic for 90% of enemies in game.

Love the game i just am not a big fan of mobs doing 50-60% of my health in a single blow, especially when they are random minion 342…

Aly Cat.9415:

Lokai, I’ve noticed you keep saying the holy trinity still exists, but you also keep saying it doesn’t work. Maybe the reason it doesn’t work is because…it doesn’t exist.

But it does exist most just dont realize they are doing it and i’ve explained it before… the thing to remember is, the idea of the trinity is 3 classes are required or highly needed to complete content. They dont have to be old aggro style of mechanic… and they DO exist! and having them makes each encounter much easier. buffer, controller, debuffer these are the trinity and they are core to success.

Buffer: allies boons most of the fight these stop or prevent damage, or boost over all damage.

Debuffer: these apply debuffs that reduce effectiveness of a boss, such as weakness or chill.

Controller: applies abilities that stop or prevent a boss from acting or hitting the target such as blind.

These are three core specs that exist, and to the thief said he went melee and did fine. I bet you did spamming your smoke screen skill that blinds the target and keeping it up constantly. Sounds like a controller to me…

I will agree to one thing though and slowly coming to me and its hard to break the old mmo habbits but, that is that… GW2 must be played like D&D. The idea that i may not be able to escape an enemy who guns for me and have to support myself, this is a concept that harkens back to D&D with spells like mage armor, and protection from evil which are spells EVERY mage will use at some point in D&D game.

Do i like it? kinda… but issue is that in D&D were abilities and skills could be used to insure your safety such as grease or hold person. The issue i have is that in GW2 the controls dont last long enough to make use of them…often only delaying the inevitable. As i am still quite fond of my power/precision build using daggers it still feels like are enemies just impossible to avoid or i have to blow a utility to stop it only the boss in question will do this far more then i can use said utility.

The game is far from balanced and i think anyone that says its fine is a blatant fan boy. Personally dungeons need work… the game is far from perfect. THAT said its also ranks as one of the BEST mmos i have ever played so dont think i am hating on the game because i am loving it! just frustraiting to get 1 shot every encounter or be forced to go ranged when i really hate the ranged weapon sets.

i believe those are the bottom row, middle set of ears… have to pull the creator up but they are in there just he’s in attack stance.

Scienta.2163:

Jae.5138:

i’d assume it’s because charr’s warmachines are widely known to be extremely powerful (their siege weapons are everywhere in their capital city) while asura’s technology focuses more on utility (devices that aid them, golem for heavy duty, etc)

Yet the inquest and many other Asuran krewes use personal defence turrets made from Asuran tech which are fairly potent and currently the most destructive siege engine in the game is an Asuran golem. I hope they will look into creating race specific skins for the engineer and many other classes instead of homogenizing them into just Charr tech.

i am actually hoping they add a golemancer class at some point, which will fill this niche though similar to engineer its distinctly differant since it’d probably be a pet class.

Jack of Tears.9458:

If they could work Dwarves back into the setting, I’d like that – especially if they then gave them a hand to hand combat class. (one of my favorite things in GWEN was the drunken brawl mini game)

i think all dwarves turned to stone… so are kind of out saddly i’d love to see them…

back on topic THE SKRITT! however i am fairly sure they wont make it do to, whole hive mind thing going on. They are REALLY dumb when seperated from the nest and super smart when in said nest.

Amnon.4769:

Elementalist is a support class; you have so many skills to cripple, stun, knockdown, chill, and heal, that no other class would DREAM of being able to offer a dungeon team the same benefits as you can.

Yes, us Elementalists don’t outrank anyone on the DPS meter, and we better keep our distance; but it’s about time people stop whining about that and start understanding what Elementalists are for. It’s been long enough for people to have figured it out.

except are there are other classes can offer the same support faster, easier, and more effienctly and with out being squishiest class in the game. If we were ment to be support shouldn’t we be one of less squishy classes? i mean thats what gaurdians have heavy armor, and clerics in D&D get so many buff spells…because if your support is dead they cant support thats entire design behind it.

BESIDES i thought whole idea of class roles was gone and was spec to do what you want to do not go dps/tank/healz…. that would mean the trinity still existed! GAAASSSPPP!

Echo.7634:

I am an 80 mesmer.
If you think the class is “very weak” then I am not sure you understnad how the class works. As anyone who does WvW or SPVP and they will tell you horror stories at how they killed themself while trying to fight a mesmer.

Nothing makes me smile when some warrior, ranger or thief thinks they are going to take me 1 on 1.

Cant comment on the necro, havent played it yet. The ones I see running around seem to do JUST FINE.

Guardian has a great array of abilities that really work great in groups. Its actually probably one of the more dynamic classes out there.

Elementalist just seem to run around with their staff casting fireballs. Dual dagger frost/earth + signet of elements = win. Your not squishy if mobs/players can’t catch you.

Different game, different set of rules to play by.

actually ele’s are in a weird spot from what i can tell they have more skills other players at any given time, but they also do about half there damage per skill, have longer cooldowns ect so takes them longer to do the same damage as other classes, and requires them to hit more often. This seems to be general consensus on forums at least. Other classes can do ele’s job quicker and with less effort,

From what i have read about the necro they seem to be in a strange spot to where they do there job easily enough HOWEVER classes like the warrior and thief can do the same duty, quicker and more effectively.

I think its more a case of, some classes are doing to much in some areas that maybe they shouldnt, or other classes are to weak in some areas. I do think needs to be some slight adjustments amongst all the classes though to what extent only more playing will tell me that.

Here is my take on this to some degree… some are saying " well it works just fine just learn to CC and stuff" and i’ll agree that its easy enough to toss a few snares, or blinds out MY issue is that…

ANY OTHER CLASS!

can do what we do easier, faster, more effienctly and with less effort. As someone that played a warlock in pre-BC in WoW i quite understand the idea that we are functional, and strong in hands of someone skilled. The issue is that the other classes preform just as well if not better by using less skills, hitting less attacks, and in less time.

Some call it skill i call it class issues its one thing to have a class requires more talent to bring out full potential its another to have other classes are doing all same things in less time, and more efficiently.

but mouthforwar, the problem is you kinda do have to run those kinds of setups to do a dungeon with any amount of success at not getting creamed into the floor. Just an example but my current spec is power/precision with lots of crit damage, i use staff in dungeons as its safer but i’d actually prefer to use daggers. Now i tried to do dungeons in my present set up but, it doesnt work at all. Yes i do crazy good damage, and while i can avoid things for awhile mobs instantly gun for me, and seek me out no amount of control of my own is going to lock down those adds.

Sad truth is you absolutely need someone running a control spec, someone running a buff spec, at the VERY least. Anyone specs into a pure damage spec because they find it enjoyable is just going to get creamed. Bigger problem is by time you realize this you have sunk hours and lots of cash into your gear…and now have to switch it out JUST for that dungeon… that just seems silly i hated it in other mmos and i hope so to.

yes new mechanics of the game

spec into support/control/healing focus

insure rest of your team is covering the other side of the spectrum

make sure you have toughness gear and defensive gear/traits

realize you are now playing the new trinity and /rage about it.

Tanks actually exist, and gaurdian is one of the better ones… don’t be fooled into thinking the trinity is gone it isn’t.

Tank/support: a class spec’d t either to have a high amount of control or support abilities and utilities. They have high defense, and health pool, and buff the party or keep enemy from damaging his allies.

Healer: a class spec’d for more support line, typically have a high amount of abilities that give regeneration, or effects that heal. A good example is a water attuned elemenatlist with vita/tough lines. This gives the ele basic attack a constant heal effect to those around the boss. can lay down a water field, and also give healing rain and have a few nice control effects.

Controller: a class focused and spec’d just for control effects, they blind, weaken, cripple and disable enemies. They keep enemy from attacking, and focus on doing good damage along with a constant stream of CC effects , a thief can spec to keep mobs nearly perma blinded preventing those mobs from attacking.

Buffer: sort of fit in tank spot but give a little break down for them to, they focus on buffing there team with might, and protection abilities. They buff damage or defenses, and give great team support usually mixed with tany or healing trait lines but are specs just buff more then anything else.

Trinity is FAR from dead and people not using spec/builds that focus on these trait lines are asking for a rough time. Most are probably doing this already and dont even realize it.

I will just say this again…. giving an enemy 2000000000000000000% damage bonus doesnt make him hard. I will give you a GREAT example, in street fighter 2 for the SNES when you get to bison he can kill you in 4 hits, however if he did not have this huge boost to damage he wouldn’t actually be that hard.

This doesn’t make bison mechanically challenging just makes him kind of enemy you have to be PERFECT to beat or near perfect. That is kind of game play that GW2 has atm, differance being that in Street fighter every character is about even and on par. in GW2 if you do not have right group set up, trait lines, and weapon set up for each encounter(and yes i carry all weapons on me at all times) then you are basically just screwed.

The trinity lives on, and anyone that things otherwise is deluding themselves… can you do dungeons with out them? yes but its far far far more difficult.

How can i be any clearer with what i was getting at… but first…

No healing? last i checked every single class has a support build, or weapon allows them to drop healing zones., or do aoe healing. As an ele using a staff i have several group healing abilities so no healing bit is utter bull. I would LOVE to see someone do a dungeon with no healing at all, and never die or zerg down a boss because i bet you cant do it.

What i was getting at was that idea that trinity is still alive and kicking if you do not have those 3 class types you will die alot, and to say " dodge " in response to anyone posting a gripe on dieing alot is bogus as well. Most bosses can move faster then you can so kiting means you need a snare, and i dont know about other classes but my ele doesnt have a spammable snare, and MOST of bosses i see are immune to CC effects anyway. oh but Lokai what dodge skill is for! except you can only dodge twice and then you are boned…

So once again, dodging isnt the answer now is kiting, is no possible way to kite any major enemy, plus is always the ranged mobs that can one shot you with normal attacks AGAIN! if you arent using optimal build/spec these things are nigh impossible and end up a giant repair bill!

STOP ASSUMING I STAND THERE LIKE Akitten

i never stop moving, i dodge when i see red circles or can actually see animation being played out, i use defensive utilities to best of my ability BUT they all have cooldowns! mist form, and arcane shield are both nice defensives BUT also have a large cooldown. Also love to see this active block mechanic the above poster mentioned because last i checked is only a dodge mechanic…

Apathy.6430:

Lokai.7850:

PEOPLE need to stop assuming that everyone that gripes about dieing is some scrube because i understand how to avoid damage. My point was and remains that, you are forced into a cookie cutter spec least you die easily and struggle to get by.

Obviously you are going to die easily if you go with pure damage and no defense. Should be pretty obvious.

But seeing as how I’ve ran all of the dungeons, multiple times each and on different modes, and only just flat out failed and gave up twice, your whole argument is just ridiculous.

Unless you want to try to make the statement that every single pug I have played with (and that’s all I play with) has been using “cookiecutter” builds…but then I guess that statement is just ridiculous as well.

It’s definitely a L2P issue.

no called zerg rushing and dieing alot, i’ve tried a couple of dungeons so far, and my group and i never got very far. Why? generally its because no one is spec’d right to do it, you need someone who is healing, some one who is ccing, and some one who is buffing to do these things. This requires a certain build, spec, and gear set up or it becomes a " rush down enemies and die, run back, rush down run back, die rush down ect" are they doable? of course! but that doesn’t make them fun in any regard… and i personally don’t want to regear myself, respec myself, just so i can do dungeons… i want to play the game and enjoy myself.

i can do all the dynamic events for the most part only a few bosses i have to watch… but when comes to dungeons? you better be spec’d in cookie cutter build or you are just going to be handed a GIANT repair bill.

but the trinity isnt gone…why do people keep saying " YEY TRINITY IS GONE" because it didnt go away…i am kind of baffled by this statement.

Tank=support/defense build
Healer=support/heal spec
Damage dealer= control/damage

only thing they did was change how those classes worked, and reworked how the aggro system worked. But if you are NOT spec’d right, have right utilities, have the right gear set up YOUR team will get man handled… so way i see it TRINITY still exists just painted it a different color.

Why do people assume people are not dodging and moving, and actually trying to avoid damage? i find it kind of insulting that people just assume that everyone that complains about insta gibs are just standing there in the red circles drooling.

You know what they say about assuming things right?

As someone that played DCUO pretty hard core through its early days, was one of its core founding pvpers(and heck my guide is still the go to place for beginners) i understand the concept of " dun stand in the fire lawl" so please don’t think i’m just bad.

Control isnt the answer either, is no way in gods green earth can chain CC anyone to death when 90% of those CC’s only last a couple of seconds.

Blind: next attack

Chill: 3-5 seconds and most enemies have a higher move speed then you do

Stun: most i’ve seen is 3 seconds, average is 1 second

ect ect

Is no way in heck you are going to CC a mob for an entire fight if he targets you so again i call bullkitten on anyone says that is the answer because believe me as someone that LOVES CC focused classes(i was a troller in CoH/V in fact i often replace the tank do to my spec being able to mass lock down entire dungeons easily).

PEOPLE need to stop assuming that everyone that gripes about dieing is some scrube because i understand how to avoid damage. My point was and remains that, you are forced into a cookie cutter spec least you die easily and struggle to get by.