Guild Wars 2

Amadeus.5687:

@LonelyReaper you clearly don’t know what you are talking about:

First off, the “Utility Skill” we get from Tool Belt is locked to our Utility Skill we pick, which means we can’t just pick whatever we like, let’s take your example, because I like to run that
Tool Kit and Grenade kit, you actually said Bomb kit as well, so here:
You get: Throw Wrence, Grenade Barrage and Big Old Bomb, which means: No Stun Break, No Condition Removal, No Boon granting skills of any sort.
Can you play like that? yes of cause you can, but the price for running the 3 kit’s are allready high, because you have none of the above mentioned.

Now, The only Tool Belt Skill that remove a condition, is Elixir C and Elixir R (which got a 120 sec CD, and ain’t meant as a condition removal per say). No other of them works as a condition removal nor a Stun break.

Now, you say we get an extra 2-3 utility, which again, is somewhat true, but yet not. First of, for each kit we pick, we “loose” one utility skill, so running one of these saxy 4 kit builds you talk about, would leave us with the exact same amount of utility skills as the rest! Now, if we do decide to not take up kit’s, let’s say we build a P/S Full Elixir Build, then you are right, I then have 4 “utility” skills more then the rest, but I have NO other weapon swap.

Also, our Tool Belt Skills are quite bad, many of them, the different is we can’t just pick the good ones and leave the bad ones alone, because if we want an utility skill we will get that Tool Belt Skill. Personal I hate Toss Elixir S, If it all ways gave Stealth I would love it, not this wierd thing it got going. It also goes the other way around, I find myself forced to use Rocket Boots because I want the Rocket Kick, even while Elixir R or S would have been a way better skill.

Now, the reason I say it’s silly you try compare a Mesmer ( Or any other proffession) with no CD on his weapon swapping to a Engineer with no CD on Kit Swapping, is because it makes no sense, at all! You simply can’t do it, no matter how you twist and turn it the proffessions are so different that something like that can’t be compared.

And the reason you are called a troll, is becuase you want something that works just fine, nerfed…

Simple, all classes are facing what you dislike too, we have tons of skill that we don’t like or like but is subpar, so we pick the best there is. Engineer aren’t the only 1 facing it. Elixir R got a 120sec cd on its toolbelt as it is kitten strong, it like asking all other profession skill rez to be less than 120sec and not to mention you can self rez unlike other profession(that super strong even with 120 cd). Elixir C give u team utility on a 30sec cd, i don’t find that weak, it ilke warrior shake it off. If every skill got stun break even on toolbelt, that will be super game breaking, so i not asking for nerf or op stuff i asking for balance. Did you realise, bomb kit and flame thrower kits is pick for its node control and dps, and its toolbelt skill give that too. Incendiary Ammo give extra condition dmg and big o bomb give node control, they aren’t weak.

From no logical point of view am i wrong, my suggestion may seem awful but it isn;t wrong at any point, so stop calling me names.

jportell.2197:

Seriously Reaper… This is not an issue… I think you are the first person that has ever had an issue with this… Are engineer kits powerful? A couple can be… Some are kinda pathetic (looking at you flamethrower!) But all in all engi kits are lack luster until they are traited if the engineer is running a multi kit build they are making sacrifices else where be it condition removal might stacking (HGH -_-) but they make up for it with a little bit more versatility. Engineers got hosed by ANET with the lack of a weapon swap and the kits are the counter… So you are saying that medkit which isn’t that great of a healing skill but offers some small healing should have a CD no mater what? I’m sorry but you’re argument is flawed and if the engineers were going to have a CD on kits it would have happened long ago. (like in the alphas/betas)

It not an issue of being biased here, i love engineer, but no cooldown on weapon swap is kitten strong. It not realize at all with all the random bugs and stronger cheese skill used by other profession , but once all those get nerf this will become an issue.

Med kit, you would have already used up 5 sec or close to 5sec for that extra med pack and condition removal. So i don’t see a problem there.

My argument is not flawed, i have reason properly how those are seen in other profession too and how they have it and the only 1 is engineer than don’t have this basic combat mechanic restriction on them.

Kharr.5746:

The OP has got to be one of the biggest trolls we’ve seen on the sPVP forums.

The kits are balanced around taking up very crucial utility skill slots and having cooldowns on the actual skills the kits grant. Swapping to a kit doesn’t make the skills magically recharge.

Complaining that kits make engis unpredictable is kind of hilarious. You can see what kit they are using by the giant hobo sack they wear. Each one looks unique. They are way more predictable than thieves+stealth or mesmers using stealth/clones/phantasms.

Honestly, I’d love to see you play a 4-kit engi build using their “unbalanced” low cooldown. You could totally fake out your opponents by chain kit swapping… or more realistically, you will get facerolled by every other class

Call yourself a troll, read my post i stated how you got 2 – 3 extra utility slot compared to other classes. Try picking out and process that hobo sack your engineer is wearing on your opponent in this fast pace game. Tell me how unpridictable mesmer and thief are, see if any high ranking, experience, non-hotjoin hero tell you how easy to counter their chain of combo. See how teldoo is playing his 2 kits, 1 weapon and tell me its not strong, even he is a good players the non- existence cooldown is what make him even stronger.

I wouldn’t mind if engineer get no cooldown for weapon swap but come from a trait line some where that not a minor trait and is at rank master and above.

@Amadeus.5687

First off, your logic is flawed, you try to compare class mechanic’s and Weapon swapping in a weird logic:
How is that flaw, you weapon skill get swap out for another skill set, is that flaw. you don’t change form, so not a transform skill, so how am i flawed in my logic.

As an Engineer we can pick up Kits, they have no cooldown, but take 1 second to equip! This comes at a price:
So do other profession, when they weapon swap, that half a sec or 1 sec , so why didn’t they get a cooldown for it like other profession. Reason of over compensation on missing 1 weapon set have been explain on the previous reply.

1. No second weapon (and only 3 real weapon options, which makes it quite easy to figure out what we got up that sleeve)
I did post on the reason how is this being over compensated with extra utility and no cooldown on weapon swap, pls refer to the top reply.

2. It takes up an Utility slot, leaving us with one utility skill less to pick (Means less Stun Breaks, Less Condition removal ect, which punish us A LOT in multi kits builds)
Also explain on previous post.

3. Reduced Damage, and Weapon Kit’s are specialised in a way normal Weapons ain’t! We need to spend a lot of traits on them, and most kit’s can’t work in all situations (See as an Example Bomb Kit, Pure melee, no semi ranged or Gap Closing ability in the set, which means I’m useless if stuck in it at range for 5 seconds)
That doesn’t make other classes any special, a lot of their weapon are based on trait line to improve their efficiency, that make no profession special except engineer with no cooldown on weapon swap.

Now, we do also have our Tool Belt, in which we gain an bonus skill (Close to all of them is weaker then a standard Utility Skill of ours and other proffesions), But that’s our Class Mechanic, it’s out UNIQUE thing. it’s need to be seen on with the proffession as a whole!
Its not weaker, it all situational as most utility slot are taken for and like elixir S and C are not at all weak on their toolbelt(some example), and if you call them weak for a few of them, other profession also have stupid utility that no 1 ever uses them, so engineer aren’t the only 1 facing this.

Why are you comparing with engineer to mesmer and ele.
I take into consideration of all profession, so in an argument. “why should engineer deserve a cooldown on weapon swap for balance.” I have to take into consideration why it was without it in the 1st place, to compensate 1 less weapon set, what did they get in return, no cooldown on weapon swap and extra utility on toolbelt kit. So now they have so much extra utility skill having no cooldown on weapon swap is powerful, but how long a cooldown on kit swap should be. 10 sec is too long it will destroy engineer, 5sec should reduce that unpredictability of engineer without destroying it. That how i came out with this topic.

NevirSayDie.6235:

LonelyReaper.8075:

NevirSayDie.6235:

You seem to be upset by the number of cc skills an engineer can take. What makes you think that a kit cooldown would “fix” that “problem”? There are three kits that have a cc skill—bombs, flamethrower, and toolkit. They each have one cc skill—a small pushback, a pull with a 1 and 1/4 second cast time, and something called “big ’ol bomb,” which launches people about 3 seconds after the skill is activated.

If someone beat you with two or three of those kits, you should be congratulating them, because that would be similar to a mace/mace-hammer signet bunker warrior beating you. Hint: mace/mace-hammer warriors are not OP.

I apologize for my strong reaction, but stuff like has to be argued against. It would destroy an entire profession for the sake of eliminating one weak niche build.

(While we’re here, could engineer invention line turret traits get a fix? They all currently have no effect. I’m not joking.)

It never about a few cc skill, it about the whole picture. What can 0sec weapon swapping do to all classes. Take a look , if mesmer have no weapon swap, i can summon 2 phantasm at once in 3sec and go back to sword and blurred frenzy you, then come back to gs when you try to run away from blurred and shatter. I can swap back to sword again cuz now you wanna come melee and i can blurred frenzy you again. So how is that readable in anyway, you cannot counter me fast enough when you have a cooldown on weapon swapping. It goes same for engineer, you go range i use grenade, u come melee i use pistol sheild or toolkit or bomb kit , you try to aviod i go back to grenade, you chain me i use shield to toolkit block to bombkit smoke field. How that not op, all your skill are at dispose with only global cooldown on weapon swapping. Thats not fair.

You can actually summon three—not two—phantasms in three seconds on a mesmer already, and then do all that stuff that you said with your weapons.

Grenades/bombs/toolkit would be a fun build to play, but it wouldn’t have any stunbreaks or condition removal. So it wouldn’t matter if you used toolkit block and smoke bomb at the same time, although that does sound powerful.

Again, sorry for the sarcasm. I used to be confident that Anet was smart enough to ignore stuff like this, but recently I’m not sure—they removed one engineer build after referencing a photoshopped screenshot someone posted in the WvW forums in a SoTG.

Changes are not always welcome, powerful or op things will always be missed like all other classes. All my character adapt to that changes, it about being more balance throughout the board.

2 phantasm from skill, but did you read that you can’t choose your other weapon skill at will. If i wanted sword for melee, but i just swap from gs, would i have it, no. If i wanted gs instead of sword to chase a target at range when i just swap from sword, no. Engineer, i can swap at will, you come melee i use toolkit/sheild, you go range i use grenade. That how flexible engineer can be and that is one powerful side that haven’t been notice with all the op effect bug and skill that some other profession have that overshadow this.

yolosmurf.8052:

I suggest: give us a real weapon swap and letting us choose 1 of our kits as the 2nd weapon and buff kits

will be the same as mesmer with 3 utility and 4 F skills

Also

Kits are generally somewhat bad and/or very situational with higher cooldowns than on normal weapons. Grenade kit being the only exception offering somewhat sustained dps but not much else.

I`d trade my grenade kit for sword/dagger or dagger/pistol thief dmg+utility anyday (i know blah blah they got a few K less hp who cares)

Engineer kits’s skill cooldown is fine, its like certain weapon have longer cooldown on certain skill on certain weapon set.)

On the contrary, engineer dps is now better than thief’s in term of sustain and burst, depend on builds. Engineer are still better than thief in a mile stone in tpvp, so i wouldn’t trade what engineer have for some extra burst and die like them.

Kardiamond.6952:

Thief have no cooldown on weapon skill
Elementalist got 4 weapon slot
Mesmer have clone/phantasm/shatter
Warrior have Burst skill
Necromancer got a second form
Guardian got perma signet
Ranger get a Pet

All those thing are unique, not shared by other class. Just like non-CD kit. Why to you compare class mecanism between themself? They are unique, no one can have the same as the other.

“But the mesmer don’t have it” No they don’t, but my engineer don’t have phantasm/shatter ether.

Being an engineer, I can read other engineer. There is still a delay during the swap. And you usually know what kit they are swapping too.
kitten Engineer! They have something other don’t have! Burn them! Nerf them once again.

Thief have no cooldown on weapon skill
( what are you talking about, innitiative have cooldown and is a finite source in a short time)

Elementalist got 4 weapon slot
(they have longer cooldown on weapon swap than all other profession and have the same down side of having 1 set of weapon and no utility on F1 to F4)

Mesmer have clone/phantasm/shatter
(Thats mesmers core machanic like engineer turret, thief’s thief, necro minion, rangers pet, ele summon and their leash to control their F1 to F4 utility skill)

Warrior have Burst skill
(Engineer now have 3 extra utility then warrior, is that fair<read my previous reply.>)

Necromancer got a second form
(That their mechanic and core, and you now have extra 3 utility skill compare to necro with addition to no cooldown on weapon swap.)

Guardian got perma signet.
(You got 1 extra utility and no cooldown on weapon swap.)

Ranger get a Pet
(Aside from their imba pet swapping at will that every know how op it is (or semi balance with thier downside), you still have more 1 extra utility then them and no cooldown on weapon swap.)

Walorx.5129:

Try reading what I wrote before arguing against it. I said engineers are NOT readable because most other classes use basic rotations (rtl+updraft+fire, bulls charge+frenzy+100b+whirlwind, etc etc) while we on the other hand, use our skills and kits as situations arise midfight. Adding a 5s+ cool down on kit swapping would negate most of our ability to play the class as a whole and would ultimately ruin all builds that use kits (every build).

That what i say, that what make you powerful, please read what i say before pointing that back at me. You are very reactive, no cooldown on weapon make it so easy to pull it off. If warrior have no cooldown on weapon swap what do you think they will do, they will wield their gs to bait(making you think their gonna 100blade combo) swap to shield and sheild bash(bait your dodge)>bull charge immediately with haste in between and have gs swap instantly for a 100blades. Try to counter that , no they can’t their so readable.

It also that most classes have cooldown on weapon swap that make it so easy to predict. Players tend to follow the best rotation you need when you have restriction placed on them. All those above you stated are to maximize that effectiveness, but now engineer have none, you can bait and bluff in a game of poker, then swap to what ever weapon you like and pull your combo with no downside.

NevirSayDie.6235:

You seem to be upset by the number of cc skills an engineer can take. What makes you think that a kit cooldown would “fix” that “problem”? There are three kits that have a cc skill—bombs, flamethrower, and toolkit. They each have one cc skill—a small pushback, a pull with a 1 and 1/4 second cast time, and something called “big ’ol bomb,” which launches people about 3 seconds after the skill is activated.

If someone beat you with two or three of those kits, you should be congratulating them, because that would be similar to a mace/mace-hammer signet bunker warrior beating you. Hint: mace/mace-hammer warriors are not OP.

I apologize for my strong reaction, but stuff like has to be argued against. It would destroy an entire profession for the sake of eliminating one weak niche build.

(While we’re here, could engineer invention line turret traits get a fix? They all currently have no effect. I’m not joking.)

It never about a few cc skill, it about the whole picture. What can 0sec weapon swapping do to all classes. Take a look , if mesmer have no weapon swap, i can summon 2 phantasm at once in 3sec and go back to sword and blurred frenzy you, then come back to gs when you try to run away from blurred and shatter. I can swap back to sword again cuz now you wanna come melee and i can blurred frenzy you again. So how is that readable in anyway, you cannot counter me fast enough when you have a cooldown on weapon swapping. It goes same for engineer, you go range i use grenade, u come melee i use pistol sheild or toolkit or bomb kit , you try to aviod i go back to grenade, you chain me i use shield to toolkit block to bombkit smoke field. How that not op, all your skill are at dispose with only global cooldown on weapon swapping. Thats not fair.

Manuhell.2759:

LonelyReaper.8075:

I think its powerful and bit unfair as stated at the start, 4 small utility is not small at all, look at elixir S, it like mist form with invi or stability that comes for free, ele don’t have that. I think they over compensate engineer for only having 1 weapon without swap for no cooldown and 3 utility skill(cuz most profession have 1, so its extra 3). So i don’t think having cooldown on weapon kits is weak, and with the recent nerf of a few highest dps, thief and mesmer, i don’t see how 5sec will destroy engineer or their dps but it will bring their control and unpredictability down to par with other classes.

Toss Elixir S is one of the most unreliable skills of the game. Stealth and stability have got pretty different uses, and we haven’t got any way to choose what we’ll get. And many of the toss elixirs are like that, utterly random. That’s also why they’re pretty bad as far as toolbelt skills go.
And you are putting together two separate things: our class mechanics and weapon swapping.

Its a good stomping skill and it help your team in so many way. A stealth skill can’t be countered, a stability skill also make it hard to counter except dodging. There so many things that utility can do, like elixir C, with it good rez on it tool belt.

Walorx.5129:

Absolutely not, that would single handedly DESTORY the class as a whole. Just because we’re the only class without easily readable rotations doesn’t even slighty mean we’re overpowered. As much as I hate to say it, it could just be a l2p thing on your part in regards to dealing with engineers as a whole who don’t play HGH.

how are u readable, i have an engineer and see how teldo plays , its not readable at all, bomb and grenade kit look almost the same, you can swap in and out of weapon as you like for the skill you need without any downtime or downside. With good latency , you can see how fast kits get swap, it less than a sec. I still dont see a readable skill on engineer as most of them have their effect appear as soon as the animation appear. Thier not like mesmer summoning, ele channeling, thief leaping or chain of burst set up, its all about spamming that skill as the fight call for it. You can practically out play an opponent with that none existence weapon cool down.

Manuhell.2759:

stof.9341:

Our toolbelt skills are weaker than utilities yes. But we got 4 of them.

As I said already, if you compare an engineer with 1 kit to another standard class, you got :
- Engineer got 1s CD instead of 5/10s
- Engineer got 1 less utility skill
- Engineer got 4 toolbelt skills which are tiny utilities

So, isn’t the loss of one utility skill worth getting 1s CD only on weapon swap and 4 toolbelt skills?

Putting aside the general usefulness of almost all the toolbelt skills, your comparison doesn’t take in account that toolbelts are our actual class mechanic and thus, if you want to compare how swaps work, the only thing right there is that we get a reduced cooldown at the cost of an utility skill. And we need an heavy investment on traits per every single kit to make them decent.

See my reasoning on the opening, compare mesmer to engineer, let say most profession have 1 utility skill so that makes engineer and mesmer having 3 more, 1 for having no weapon on swap so that make it 2 extra compared to other classes and mesmer 3 extra. So mesmer need to ramp up or trait to use their utility and it varies with the condition meet, engineer on the other hand have none, their dont need to ramp up or meet any condition or trait them to have them work at their full power. So if you take into account, its a bit unfair. That why i say a 5 sec cd is needed to bring this down to par, it will get worst once engineer get more viable builds and more classes get brought to balance.

RoRo.8270:

LonelyReaper.8075:

Vena.8436:

They do have a cooldown, its a global 1-sec on equip/unequip for kits. Putting that to five seconds, or just putting on an additional 5-sec cooldown may well just murder the class without major other changes.

Your comparison is otherwise flawed because you’re comparing a main mechanic of the class (engineers) with general mechanic of the mesmer. Yes, Mesmers have a prerequisite but they also have clones which do more than just stand there, something that an engineer doesn’t have access to while he may be swapping weapons and using his F-keys. The elementalists have access to four completely different sets which, technically, you can also do with a engineer but why the hell would you? I don’t think there’s an actual viable spec with four kits unlike the almost innately viable 4 elementalist attunements.

All classes also have the same global cooldown to swap weapon, half to 1 sec so that if 1sec to equip and unequip for engineer than it make other profession 11 sec to swap weapon too , so 5 sec if not too much.

Yes because other classes are required to put their other weapon sets as utilities and engies obviously can wield a rifle, pistol/shield at the sametime

Take a look at Ele, they don’t have extra weapon too, and take a look at all build sigil of fire and air on most of their 2handed weapon. It not much different that engineer if you take a good look at them.

stof.9341:

I don’t see that reduced dps on weapons/kits. I find my engineer to be rather strong on that point.

Of course, I’m taking into account the fact that practically all our weapons are ranged so I don’t compare my DPS to a GS warrior. Ranged weapons all have rather weak DPS. Except engineer grenade kit.

Our toolbelt skills are weaker than utilities yes. But we got 4 of them.

As I said already, if you compare an engineer with 1 kit to another standard class, you got :
- Engineer got 1s CD weapon swap instead of 5/10s
- Engineer got 1 less utility skill
- Engineer got 4 toolbelt skills which are tiny utilities

So, isn’t the loss of one utility skill worth getting 1s CD only on weapon swap and 4 toolbelt skills?

I think its powerful and bit unfair as stated at the start, 4 small utility is not small at all, look at elixir S, it like mist form with invi or stability that comes for free, ele don’t have that. I think they over compensate engineer for only having 1 weapon without swap for no cooldown and 3 utility skill(cuz most profession have 1, so its extra 3). So i don’t think having cooldown on weapon kits is weak, and with the recent nerf of a few highest dps, thief and mesmer, i don’t see how 5sec will destroy engineer or their dps but it will bring their control and unpredictability down to par with other classes.

Manuhell.2759:

Huh, guess the OP should try playing an engineer instead of spouting this nonsense. Comparing toolbelt to utilities is simply insane, and we already pay a price for the versatility given by the kit (even when we don’t use them) in a reduced dps on our weapons/kits.

Engineer have great dps, don’t lie, i have an engineer, HgH to power 100nades that got nerf but still somewhat deal the same dps. I play an engineer too, not like i don’t know their traits, weapon and skill setup. Don’t call pick on me without feedback why you think it fair, stay on topic.

Swiftstomp.5203:

So you think the toolbelt abilities are worth as much as another professions utilities?
So you think a kit is as strong as another professions weapon skills?

Even IF you could answer both questions with yes:
Where would our additional Sigils be placed, as Engineers could still slot only one Set?
Where would your proposed CD place the Engineer in terms of gameplay, to set them appart from say warriors (who also mostly use 5sec swapping CDs) or any other class, really?
and lastly: Gimme teh Signets!

All things must NOT be equal!

Ele don’t have extra sigil also have cooldown, Most classes use 2 handed weapon , so where their extra sigil and the use the same sigil like what is used on the main weapon, sigil of fire, air. 1 sigil is always use as force or crit on off-handed, pistol base dmg is one of the highest in game, check with the pvp vendor which weapon beat pistol on dmg. So not all thing are fair, but having no same restriction place on all classes, hurt balance.

P.S:You can have the signet too, most profession don’t use them except those that don’t have passive stats like signet of illusion, infiltrator signet for example.

stof.9341:

The OP post can be summed as :

Engineers are different, they need to be the same for balance.

A game where everyone plays the same class with same weapon and same skills would be balanced yes. But it’s not the only way to achieve it. Asking ANet to make all classes the same will not improve the game.

Then balance will never be achieve.

I no trying to make all classes monotone, but if to make things balance some similar rule set and machanic have to brought on par. What make certian classes strong is what other classes don;t have, but this no cooldown on weapon swap make engineer kitten strong, but not as obvious as it HgH counter part or ranger current pet and their strong passive heal in these new meta that have burst tone down.

Vena.8436:

They do have a cooldown, its a global 1-sec on equip/unequip for kits. Putting that to five seconds, or just putting on an additional 5-sec cooldown may well just murder the class without major other changes.

Your comparison is otherwise flawed because you’re comparing a main mechanic of the class (engineers) with general mechanic of the mesmer. Yes, Mesmers have a prerequisite but they also have clones which do more than just stand there, something that an engineer doesn’t have access to while he may be swapping weapons and using his F-keys. The elementalists have access to four completely different sets which, technically, you can also do with a engineer but why the hell would you? I don’t think there’s an actual viable spec with four kits unlike the almost innately viable 4 elementalist attunements.

All classes also have the same global cooldown to swap weapon, half to 1 sec so that if 1sec to equip and unequip for engineer than it make other profession 11 sec to swap weapon too , so 5 sec if not too much.

Engineer kits without cooldown is unbalance and a bit unfair. Why? These are some of the reason.

1) Combat wise
You can’t predict what an engineer gonna use, unlike all other profession, they can swap in and out of their weapon and kits with only half a sec delay. These make playing against an engineer unreadable compared to other profession.

2) Unlimited and unstoppable control
These make engineer one of the best profession at control. Let say you take 2 weapon kits, you can access all your control ability with no down side, no cooldown in between them and be able to swap back to your 1st weapon in no time.

I think a 5sec cooldown in between weapon kits is fair, and it still allow the engineer to fully utilize their trait speedy kits and invigorating speed.

But engineer don’t have a second weapon, so having to use a utility slot for a weapon kit wouldn’t having no cooldown in between them a given.
Engineer have a utility belt full of skill whenever a utility slot is taken, therefore having a weapon kit on your skill bar you gain a utility slot too. Taking a utility skill give you 2 utility skill. All profession have cooldown on weapon swap, having none on an engineer with almost the same amount of utility is really strong.

But mesmer and ele also have four F1 to F4 skill.
Ele have to trait into arcane for useful buff on attunement swap and they normally have longer cool down(like weapon swap) and need to be into 30arcane to get the cooldown to almost 10 sec but engineer don’t need to trait it and no need to go deep into any trait to gain no cooldown on weapon kits.
Mesmer have 4 utility F1 to F4 but they need a prerequisite, they need clones or need to go deep into Illusion trait for illusionary persona to use it without summoning illusions. Without a fully summoning 3 clones all the skill have weaker effects. Engineer don’t need to trait, don’t need prerequisite an have all their utility skill on F1 to F4 at their prime and still have no cooldown on their weapon swap.

You can easily see how a good engineer is so hard to control and hard to read by looking at teldoo play. (i don’t hate teldoo, i admire him, his a good player.) How strong an engineer can control a node and and survive even with 1 utility skill on their slot. They have unparalleled control and offensive with defense just by having no cooldown on their weapon swap.

Rezz.8019:

Won’t work. You could just rush the enemy lord. Not being able to actually heal makes it impossible to keep the lord alive.
Also, if it’s just a couple “splitters” on lord, you can’t really do much about it except send the equal number back to defend and hope you can kill them. You can’t really send a healer to defend and save the lord.
It won’t work.

I gave an idea here which some players say it sound like GvG, since i don’t play gw1 i didn’t know it similar. But here state a way to make lord impossible to rush ahead in the game.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/An-idea-to-improve-the-current-meta/first#post1895449

O.O, i am trying a similar build to QT Hman, it seems decent, i haven’t try yours out, seem nice too.

DRAGON.7530:

mesmer cd 60 sek?))))))) omg man illusions 30 point and cd 46 sek + illusionary invigoration all shatter rachange in 50% hp not op??? 8 sek immune in shater build

Read what i say, it strong but it is a skill that is traited on 2 major traits no like ele cantrip build that hard to die, mesmer can die quite easily. Don’t bring Phantasm mesmer in the disccussion pls, they are not traited and their a totally different build if you want to account to 1v1 op with lots of survivability.

For the skill On my mark(not use full) to be change to, some courageous shout. The skill now give the warrior a 3.5sec stability and 50% dmg reduction and it break stun that goes on a 25 sec cd(if added hold chill,immobilize and cripple for that duration, 30sec is good too)!!! That will make warrior much more viable in pvp!!! Warrior need some thing small that give them some pressure relieve and stomping action to at least help in team fight.

Oppps maybe i psoted in the wrong forum

For the skill On my mark to be change to, some courageous shout. The skill now give the warrior a 3.5sec stability and 50% dmg reduction and it break stun that goes on a 25-30 sec cd!!! That will make warrior much more viable in pvp!!!

mesmer has it on a 60 sec cooldown untraited and requires 3 clone or phantasm and a grandmaster trait up for a full 4 sec, so you can’t compare it like that.

Great Job Blu, keep up the good stream

i beeen using p/p though it kill my mobility that all

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fEAQJArYhMmYbvR3wjDAhCCMeASIkUeMDP2A-TsAAzCoIaS1krJTTymsNN640xsEA

a build for fun

The only problem i have with condition is from engineer. Their condition get reapply so fast, stack long and they apply almost all available condition in game on to you in secs. They don’t go down easily unless they get train and they long duration of boons make them a hard foe.

Bushido.2184:

There are 3 requirements for esports:

1) Balanced, competitive and polished to the extreme

2) Support and ease of access to watching replays, meaningful leaderboards, and a robust spectating mode which also encourages casting (see Starcraft)

3) Must actually be entertaining to watch for the audience. Of these 3, I believe GW2 lacks this the most, for these reasons:

---

Lack of pacing. From beginning to the end, pacing is the same stale point-holding throughout, and I’d dare to say that pacing is nonexistent. Despite secondary objectives and the more recent effort to create some sort of pacing (Foefire and Silent Storm), it still falls short from adequate. Compare this to the most successful esports such as

Starcraft, where the beginning gives time and breathing room for casters to provide information to the audience about the players/tournament/etc, proceedingly unfolds what plans and strategies each are building upon, and has an early/mid/late-game cycle.

Counter-Strike. The monetary aspect gives it much more depth than just a 1-life-per-round shooter. There are eco rounds, teams must take into account their economy, and rounds (and strategies) are not stagnant, but constantly fluctuating round-per-round and changing along with it.

Dota/LoL/Warcraft. Same reasons for Starcraft
———————————————————————————————————————————————————————
Unclear actions happening and skills. From arbitrary signets floating above peoples’ heads, to skills with no animations, to invisible traits activating, to the many Warrior animations that all look very similar, to the screen filled with Ele particle effects, this all contributes to GW2 not being entertaining to watch, and quite possibly confusing for the audience to follow or casters to explain what’s happening.
———————————————————————————————————————————————————————
The current game mode. Another ingredient for esport games, along with pacing, are suspense and “moments of awesomeness”. There will never be a GW2 equivalent of a brilliantly executed Starcraft strategy that completely turned the tables, a Dota wipe that won the game, the suspense of the last round of Counter-Strike with the scores 15-15, or the kill that won the round/game, none of that.

There is no window for individual players to shine. Poorly executed skills do not punish players. If a game was won 501-499, what would happen? People will not be astonished as in Counter-Strike, people cannot attribute that win to anything; it may even be attributed by many as luck. As someone else on the forums put it, the only possible game-changing play he can think of MIGHT be a well-placed Fear on a point that gives a few seconds advantage that would just so happen to win the game.
———————————————————————————————————————————————————————

Here is a clip of what Kotaku calls the greatest moment of Esport history, demonstrating all of the above. It would be great if GW2 could address a few of these points and supply pacing, greater rewarding/punishing of executed tactics, and give these “moments of awesomeness.”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=np_5BHmaSI4

Sorry for the lengthy post. Yes we can cast, but ultimately there is more to an esport than just people volunteering to cast or the community hosting a tournament.

This is what gw2 is lacking, great job putting it in word Bushido. This require a sticky so that devs can read it and improve these weakness so that gw2 can be a export.

Yesterday, i was watching teldo stream tpvp, it seem awfully boring to watch. A lot of animation clutter, no pacing, seem like everything he does is leading to the same stuff. The down feature kill somewhat of the suspend as it doesn’t let player feel that the awesome team fight took down a player but somewhat a boring rezzing lead to some opponent team downfall and some boring stomping cause a team mate to die.

So the game i watch was:
Aoe
Aoe
Aoe
Stomp
CC
Aoe
Aoe
Downed
Rez
CC
Downed
Rez
Aoe
Aoe
Stomp
with animation clutter all over the place.

LovefulfillsAll.4870:

Daishi.6027:

Phantasm burst?

Protection?

Reflective/Condi reflect?

Stun?

= Phantasm build and Arcane Thievery?

K listen dude. that build is pretty much God tier 1v1 and takes little to no skill to use. Is that bull kitten? … Actually no =D

Ok well maybe a little, best option is to just not fight this 1v1. It’s a bad build in team fights and thats how it’s balanced. I know it seems a little silly but in competitive play it’s not a big deal and unless they are solo queue side point a good majority of mesmers don’t actually run this crap.

The rest of the mesmer builds are pretty strong yes but can be countered pretty well if you know how to out play them. (just don’t be a warrior when you try to do it)

See this guy right here? ^^

He actually acknowledges the facts that are posted and are there.
The guy calling me new to pvp?
That was nothing but a big rambling post with no actual feedback on the build I am referring about.

People who like being OP or just don’t know how to play, will usually defend the class ignorantly.

Anyhow I came here with facts, and not to argue, but to state a point. So I am basically done posting now on this thread.
But please do stay on topic and
Discuss

Guys just read his post above, this guy is arrogant. I obviously seeing every1 posting feedback on the class and clearing up what he call op as misconception but what he reply was he still stand firm to his same small view of the class.

This is what he say:
He know the classes well, but he clearly show he doesn’t know the skill and build combination well enough to post the correct information.

He claim the class he’s playing doesn’t matter as mesmer is so op that it will wrack any other class.
So my thief kill mesmer all the time, does that now make my thief op.

With renegade giving all the feedback to help, he seem to ignore him and start picking on players that say that his misconception is wrong.

I am sorry, but this is clear arrogance and L2 kitten ue, mesmer is strong but not op. Don’t classify all build as one build is you can’t differentiate them.

Phantasm Build: Strong Phantasm, strong 1v1 as they only need to focus on buying time to survive while their Phantasm melt you.

Shatter Build: Widely used in tpvp for its utilities, and as a team player. Deal good dmg if manage to land shatter which reap boons of opponent and can try to buy some time with active mitigation till backup.

Condition Mesmer: There are a few build out there and their a bit more tanky, just watch out for confusion so that you don’t melt yourself away.

WannaBe Bunker: Mesmer sadly can bunker well, but the immortal mesmer is quite a good build by Pyroatheist.9031, just watch out for retaliation.

Learn to differentiate, listen to feedback and open to discussion before calling something op.

Warcry.1596:

Your skills are meant for the fight at hand, if someone shows up before you can recover, that’s one thing. If your skills are on recharge after facing someone, and someone else shows up, that’s bad luck. Recharges even as low as 1 second are still, in a way, passive Initiative management. Since if you can’t expend it, it can only build.

I find thief perfectly fine,

Thief: Initiative = cooldown for weapon skill on both weapon set
Other classes = Profession have 2 weapons set with cooldown and class related ability F1 – F4

So if your keeping initiative then you are doing something wrong, why are you holding back in a fight. So you can’t really say that thief have no cool down, initiative is a weapon wide cooldown, it just lets you off load your cooldown faster then other profession.

(Edit: Weapon set)

i only can say that some classes that get pigeonhole into 1 major build with minor variation.

Ele- dd, cantrip/aurashare, 0/10/0/30/30
Engineer – Hgh
Ranger – Pet/trap semi bunker.

Read some other informative thread out there and see if you can learn something to help you improve your play. As mesmer are strong, annoying they can be, but op no. So try to learn their mechanic and learn to counter them.

On the note, mesmer clone does no dmg and phantasm only hurt like hell when your up against a phantasm mesmer. Please don’t try to go all for nothing thief build, i have a mesmer and a thief, and i can eat mesmer in both spvp and tpvp except for Phantasm mesmer that kites you and let their phantasm melt you away. Phantasm mesmer are just that strong 1v1.

I did take snow balling into consideration, so i added extra stuff like special event that will appear to close the gap in power between team but drastically changes as it reaches a different point in the game. As most game ,you don’t want the game to drag on to a stale mate, so at some point players decision, team play, strategy and skill affect their chances of winning. So the game mode i propose lets players learn from their mistake at the start but makes every action count toward end. As now if you loses team fight/resources(as it will snowball for the stronger team at the end)/deaths(as respawn timer will get longer meaning death will make it harder to comeback.), it will help the opposing team end the game while they have a stronger lead.

No problem, just that i think pvp need something smaller than GvG though, if GvG isn’t 5v5 map( i didn’t play gw1) , i think a smaller group/team map is needed too.

Sry for such a long draft, i will review and polish it once my exam are over and will include some diagrams to give more clarity. Please give me your feedback thks!

’The slow-pace of this mode may not be a good fit for GW2 since our quick matches is a good thing we have going for ourselves."
I think about a 30min game that can drag out to 40 min would be fine. Normal matches ranges from 10-15min and usually most players are running for objective, less skirmishes( that would be nice to watch and see it evolve in game, as players learn how to deal with their opponent.) and some times it to hard for team to make a come back or win from a bad start. I think a longer game mode that can fluctuate between teams that can make come backs , retaliate and struggle back to winning and creating uncertainties of the winning team will make the game really interesting to play and watch.
Ok, just to relate to Dota 2 by taking it good point that make it an interesting game to watch and play as a competitive export. There are phases which player enter, 1st is the laning phase, where player fight to gain gold to gain advantage to defeat the opposing team boss structure. 2nd when a player roamer/hunter gain enough advantage, they start roaming to other lane to pick of the opponent side lane to slow them down and to create a greater gap in their team winning chances. Runes help in promoting pick off as it give a slight advantages to the player that controls it, either making them stronger at picking off target or making them over confident that cause them to fall for traps and loss that advantage. 3rd come the pushing phase when team start coming together pushing toward the end goal and forcing team combat that either make or break a winning team. The are also key point in game that forces team to react to try to hold or gain extra advantage to winning the game, like taking out roshan that make their carry last to help them win team fights. Finally the final phase when team try to lock their victory in taking out the creatures barrack making their team stronger and harder for their opponent to make a come back. This game phases make team chose a variety of team composition, making unique item setup and strategy which make it really interesting to play and watch. Letting player learn and adapt to their opponent as the game goes on and make a come back even if their team composition is weaker at the start of the game.
So this game mode i propose uses the same concept, laning phase is like controlling node phase. Then proceed to assaulting farm, using orbs for assaults is similar to the phase where the roamer/hunter take runes and assault the side line to create gap in their winning chances. Gates assaulting phase is when most of the team to attempt their final objective. Where the trebuchet is like roshan which is one of the key turning point of sieging gates. If a team can manage to force their way into the keep before their opponent can, the probability of winning the game is high for that team as the final goal is certainly at reach.

“Secondary objectives are key, but there may be too many variables. Why orbs AND cap points? I like that a secondary objective can result from score, instead of score resulting from secondary objectives.”
Main objective of this mode is to kill the lord, but without resources as explain on top, players cannot achieve that goal. Which in that case now the thought is , gaining resources is now the main objective (1st phase of the game), because without it Lord can’t be killed. Which lead to having the game mode meta swapping in phases evolving the game as the players play into the match. So as i explain in the 1st draft right at the top, players will 1st enter the 1st phase, holding nodes, which promote bunker and burst to control those nodes. As the game progresses into second phase, roamer/ burst/ and control and healing/support comes into play when peasant and forest creatures are now able to be dealt with as resources let the players able to. Roamer and burst will then be sent to take out opponent peasants to slow them from their objective, while control, burst and support roles come into play in defending the peasant from harm. When the time where resource is enough for gate sieging, bunkers are needed to suck up the dmg from cannon, burst to remove the annoying guards and sustain dps with some survivability to take out the gates. Same goes for the lord before resource get drag into late game where Lord can be taken out due to extra dps and survivability from resources that help players end the game. These make a room for many different build and team composition to be viable in game. If your team consist of more bunkers, during phase 1 and controlling mid for trebuchet will be easier. What about a team with more roamers and burst, second phase will help you pick back up as now your strength of your team composition can come into play. What happen if you have more balance group, you can pick the weakness of your opponent and use it to your advantage. That is where lot of strategy can come into play and variety of build and team composition make this game mode interesting as no same match will be the same. It help prevent a straight loss to a team who team composition get defeated before the game match even start. As for orb, it help promote some roaming and assault teams to attack the other team. It will help buff the team who find it for a small moment, which will make team assign some players to fight over it, adding a bit more depth and twist to the game.

These are some additional info from to further clarify some stuff:

I will start with why a modifies stats help in this game mode and why it won’t throw off balance the game.
Modifies stats point are here to help draw the game longer and to promote capping of nodes/assaulting of farms/events to promote skirmishes as these objective help team progress to winning, thus getting players will meet at these specific point where skirmishes will happen(that what players want, fights). I think skirmishes is also where the trill is , viewer would love to see high skill players flaunt their skills. While objective help viewer digest the game, letting them know who have the upper hand in winning at a certain time of the match. Next is why this resource that buff players won’t throw the game off balance, because all players have them. Farms/Nodes?kills/Special Events all provide these resource, players get a steady source of resource from farm. These resource is used to buff players vs npc target. As players gain resource, 1st peasant can be assaulted, 2nd forest creatures, 3rd gates and guards and finally the Lord to end the game. These resource will buff players dmg(all sources from condition to direct) and defense (reduce all dmg sources) from npc by a certain percentage that grows with resource. They are here to prolong the game, preventing some content of the match from happening straight off the start of the match. These does not affect players vs players but help players active the final winning objective.

DEATH RESPAWN TIMER
The player death respawn timer should slower increase as the team gain more resource, making death and rezzing team mate very important in later into the match. Making mistake will punish team later in game, making it harder to assault or defend and thus making it easier to game to be concluded and giving viewer more suspend as every moves counts!
NODE SIZE
The node must be big enough for players to dodge and fight inside of it. Something like the middle graveyard node in Legacy of foe fire. It will make skirmishing easier, aoe spamming weaker and evasive build and kiting viable on node fights.
(Edit: Node size like supply camps in WvW or a bit smaller, where aoe doesn’t rule, other build are more viable(like kiting and evasive) and include LOS where player can use to skirmish with on the node.)
WAYPOINT AT REZ POINT/STARTING POINT
It will be active when a opponent team siege your farm, letting players that are off the node for 5-8 sec and out of combat to waypoint back to help defend their farm. Will be disabled once your farm it not longer able to be siege(i.e.: 70-75% resource as stated in the 1st draft)

SIZE OF THE MAP
I think the map that a 1.5 or 2x larger than most of our spvp map is nice. I added factors like player management and making controlling mid for a waypoint to better defend you node is nice. Making it hard for reinforment to trail across the map from some far end point too fast making stronger team able to control all 3 node to themselves and this will also help make roamers strong in this meta.

REWARDING POINTS FOR ACTION
Team will be awarded resource when their team meet a certain quota or kill or maybe resses or defending nodes. I generally like awarding resource when team get kill, it what most players find fun in pvp and with all the other objective promoting action, now resource awarded on kill promote skirmishes between players while waiting for the resource to be meet to take on the lord. It can also provide a different means of gaining resource other than farms / nodes / forest creatures.
This is what i vision the game play to be:
1)Starting of the match:
team will fight for the 3 nodes, they will not be able to assault farm(cuz of guards) and gates( cuz of gaurds and cannon) or even take out the forest creatures for resource as it will be a waste of time(being harder to solo and requires a team at the start of the game) instead of taking nodes for resource and playing skirmishes which help get to know the opponent team set up.
2)Resource for team reaching 30-40%:
Team will now start to assault farm to widen the gap in resources , if taking nodes and skirmishing does not help to do so, which in that case slow down the resource generated from farms till the peasant respawn. Forest creatures are now able to be taken down with smaller groups or soloed for extra resource.
3) Resource for team reaching 40-65%( which should be half time or closing to the end of the game):
Special event will start activating to promote or help team in dead lock start sieging gates. I think a special event that let which ever team that control the middle node for a min or two able to activate a trebuchet to help siege the gates down. This trebuchet have only the range to hit the gates on not the nodes on either end and only appear when team successfully hit the quota and activate to build it(which will be instant of cuz) and prevent the node from being capture till the trebuchet is destroyed. The trebuchet should also take reduce dmg from players till there is not players from the trebuchet team on the node, these prevent defending team from zerging just the trebuchet and provide an advantage to help the assault team siege the gates. Special forest creature can be made to spawn too, to let the team that kill it gain extra bonus dmg and dmg reduction (i.e.: 10-15%) for a certain duration(maybe 2-3 or 5 min) to help them seige the opponent gates.
4) When one team reaches 75% resource:
Peasant of the opponent team that haven’t reach 75% resource now cannot be kill, so resource will be maintain to help promote player to seige the gate and not the farms and also prevent defending from losing too much resource from the team seiging the gates. Special Event to help close the gap in the difference of both team resource will no longer trigger. The game now is focus to seige the gates and take out the Lords.
5) when resource is over 80%:
The game should be looking like what i think it should look like at 80%. Players are now stronger than the lords and team will most probably have the gates taken down and now team will be split into defending their lord and a assault team that gonna take out the opponent lord.
Resource in this game should be tune to approximately reaches 100% before 45mins. I think if the duration of the game is too short the game can’t reach it potential and fun and will be seem rushed and skirmishes won’t be seen much too. So reaching 60-75% at 30min is kinda a the best time i guess(need to experiment with it) and end around 45min- 50 min. It should provide the players with enough fun , and time for each stage to be carry out.
I may have miss out some point but i would try to write a more complete thread on the forums with pictures of how i think the map would be like and how i vision it for our community to voice their opinion on this game mode. I would also like your feedback on what do you think of a game mode and would it help create a esport worthy map that variety of builds and strategy can flourish and would be interesting for viewer to watch and talk about?
From Fan of GW2 community.

ORB OF POWER
This orb will be similar to the one in temple of the silent storm but it spawn once in between 1 of the extreme nodes and the middle node every maybe 3 – 5 mins that swap position every time it spawn. Similar to how the runes of power in dots are and should be accessible to players on both team. This should not show up on the mini map till the players are close by , to provide a RNG to the game and help promote roamers in the meta. This orb of power either give extra crit% + crit dmg to giving extra resource on kill or giving the players immunity to condition and cc.
LORD
For lord, the final objective of the game. Lord should be buff to around 75% stronger than normal 5 man team player to kill. They shouldn’t deal a lot of high dmg but able to deal enough pressure to a bunker that buff by 75% of resource. What i vision the lord to be is that, it require a group for at least 4 players that include 1 bunker to take down at 75% resource. The lord should are a bit like guard but are harder to kill, they offer more control and react to certain conditions., like buffing protection or maybe retaliation when being burst down to fast or remove condition when condition stack to high to setting up reflection when there too many range or maybe aoe the room his in once a while when players attacks him and should build to cater to more balance build of dps and survival. The Lord should be hard to be burst down at the start of the fight to prevent the boss from dying before the defending team reaches the base but get relative weaker over time as this will promote the defending team to wipe the attackers before the Lord get weaker and not use the Lord to control the offensive team. As the game get drag on to 100% resource the players now should be around 25% stronger than the lord and team will probably be in this scenario. Both teams have their gates down, team have their players split into maybe 3 assault and 2 to defend their Lords. Then the game will be push to which team is able to fend the assault and defeat the opposing lord to win.

Next is some additional stuff that help make the game mode,
GATES, GUARD AND CANNON.
The gate are guarded by 2 guard each and cannon, these prevent gate sieging at the start of the game without enough resource. The guard also act as protecter to the peasant by giving them protection buff and condition remover when the condition are meet ie: being loaded with tons of condition to bursted by high spike dmg(these i think can add a bit more flavor to the game, pls give me your feedback on this idea.) to help player defend them from being killed easily. The guards don’t offer much dmg, one guard act as a protection guard that remove condition and buff protection, while 1 more guard offer control(stun, immobilize, etc). The cannon is where the main source of dmg comes from, they can’t be disable till the gate are down(dmg must be tweak for balance though.). The gate and walls won’t be like what you see in WvW, players can’t stand and attack from it, meaning that they can’t hide behind barrier and fend of their attacker. Instead players have to exit the gate to defend them from the siege, this will lead to a intense play among both teams to take down a team gates. Additionally, guard is aggrod to those that deal the most dmg to the gates while the cannon(an AI is needed, not player control) is aggro on who 1st interact with them and randomly chooses a new close by target if it’s existing target is lost. This will help create a team play where a bunker is needed to take the aggro of the cannon off the team and control or burst players effort on taking out the gate / defender / guards. The guard will start out 10-15% stronger than players and earn the same resource as the team they represent, they will get cap around 25-30% meaning when a team get get to 40-45% resource the players should be on par in dealing with a guard.(this value are just estimate must be tested to allow roamer to assault the peasant at a point in game.). While the cannon will start 10% higher and scale with resource till the gates are taken down.
FOREST CREATURES
Forest creature are this game mode side objective, it give player minor leverage in resource when killed and certain stronger one can provide buff or stat bonuses. They should be place out of the main route to the nodes around the map, maybe having 2 spawn on random location on both team, these creature won’t be able to be killed at the start of the game by team but will be easier as the game progresses to being soloed near 40-50% resource. Stronger creature can be use for special event to turn the tide or promote a certain team action, will elaborate longer later on.
SPECIAL EVENTS
These event are to help promote certain action , keep the game going or help a team end it. These event are to make the game mode a bit more interesting. Let say if a team have difference in resource exceeding 10%, an event will kick in that happen near the node where the weaker team control. If the weaker team manage to complete the event( let say if they can wipe out the pirates that have cargo shipment that appear by the stream near the node or either take a node from the enemy.), they will be awarded 5% resource if they kill the pirate and 8% if they take a node from the enemy in a set of duration or certain other condition. The enemy will be able to either prevent this by intercepting the players from killing the pirate or chose to hold a tighter control on their 2 node. This will help promote action from teams and change the pace of the game and make it interesting for viewership.

(Edit: please don’t move this thread to the Suggestion section, i would like to have the pvp community feedback.)

I have been reading ton of thread, and collected and analyze what constructive post have been explain by some players about the current meta. This are some raw ideas that i came out with after taking into consideration of some informative post, i will be fine tuning and polishing these idea and take into consideration of what other ideas and feedback i get from the community, so feel free to comment. So prepare for a long read, and forgive me on some of my bad english XD.

This was an idea forward to Devs recently:

The post of needing a new mode for spvp and why death match/ arena is wanted more than conquest. Interestingly, players around the forum have given a lot of constructive feedback on why death match is not viable compare to conquest as a esport(as player need an objective to get player to react instead of a staring competition.). I also think that the finding the correct game mode is the 1st step to create a esport worthy pvp game. So an idea cross my mind when i was doing legacy of foe fire.
The idea for an esport, competitive game mode of conquest is chosen, but at the same time conquest set a undesirable meta to the game. Players hate conquest and love dueling/skirmishes, conquest don’t allow that. Conquest forces profession into extreme end of the build, i.e.: bunker and burst.
So something came into my mind, why not cross conquest + MOBA with special resource where a variety of build and strategy can flourish and it help reduce the gap of power and balance can be easier to achieve. So the objective to this map is not like legacy of foefire but with similar gameplay. The winning condition is to kill your opposing team lord, while conquest mode is still in place to gain resource needed to kill the lord. So this is how it goes, killing lord is the main objective, but the lord and the keep is impossible to breach and kill as players will start with their basic stats from the mist while lords and it gate are inflated to have more hp+def+dmg. How do players kill the lord is with special resource gain from controlling nodes and farms( both team start with 2 farm that give resource as time passes, i will go into more detail how this help the game mode). This resource is cap at 100 and as players gain resource it increases the all dmg dealt (condition and direct dmg) and all dmg reduction by a certain percentage( this need to be experimented on for the best ratio) and get more as the resource increase to 100. So as the game goes on players will get stronger and stronger(but does not break balance among players as dmg to dmg taken is the same) and breaching the gate and killing lord is then achievable.
So how does the nodes and farm come into play, i will go into more detail here. Both team will both have 2 farm next to their 2 gate away from the opposing team(for better defense.). Farm will provide a steady source of resource as the game goes on. The farm will consist of peasant that provide a objective to the opposing team, if the peasant are killed the farm then yield less resource for that duration till the peasant respawn. Let say if each farm have 2 peasant, killing all 4 peasant reduces the resource gain by 50%, without resource the team losses it edge to kill the lord. The node on the other hand also provide resource but less than farm, but it offer bonus resource and leverage as the team hold them for a certain amount of time. There will still be 3 node on this map, 1 node each on the extreme right and on the extreme left and a closer middle node to the player’s keep. The 2 extreme node provide more resource compare to the middle node and offer bonus resource if the team mange to hold it the time( let say extra 1% resource for every 2 min hold)., while the middle node yield resource but offer leverage like a waypoint in between(but closer to the the extreme node) extreme node and the keep to help ease defending a node and as the game progresses holding the middle node will offer the team a trebuchet to help seige the gates. The extreme node must be placed equally far from each corresponding gate and from each other so that it is hard for a team to control both node even with the middle node and so that skirmishes can happen and total domination of all node is unachievable by a single team if they well match(while the middle node is closer to the both keeps). One thing is that both node can be place equally far from both their corresponding gate but how to make the distance equal from each other, this i think can be achieve with a portal on both side of the middle node that help cut that extra distance from 1 node to another( this is for another strategy reason).

chronometria.3708:

Wildstar online is making a big thing of its housing. It will be interesting to see what impact wildstar has on gw2.

I foresee that every1 will be sitting home, staring at a computer trying to build their “homes” from their home and stay home playing home and nv go out into the world and “world”. XD

clay.7849:

Solbrio.1902:

clay.7849:

….I don’t think it is ok to release an unfinished game.

I haven’t logged in for a LONG time..but I just had to ask…this game is technically “unfinished” is it not? They’re constantly evolving the game…I thought that was the entire point.

Constantly evolving and missing key features the game should have shipped with are two different things.

I don’t see housing as a key feature or guild halls, but a LFG tool , guild data log/entry and custom arena are some of the basic for a game and esport that A-net wanted it to be.

1) Practically most of your utilities don’t function underwater, it make you feel half as useful.
2) Weapons, they don’t interact with the trait line well at all and limited set of choices kills it. They shouldn’t be heavily weigh by our traits but being able to get boosted by traits that are taken by land build to make them stronger. I.E : Land build focus on burst, so let say harpoon is a the weapon that deal direct dmg then this weapon should similarly reflect the weapon on land and having it burst similar to the 1 on land dealing high burst dmg.
3) Traits don’t interact well at all with weapons and the left over utilities at all.
4) No stomping underwater, you can’t end your opponent and it obviously provide a lack of strategy being so. In 1v 2+ you can never win even you are better as you can’t stomp your opponent.

A-net please rework how utilities are , make all of them workable underwater. Make give us a few choices of weapon (1 condition, 1 physical, 1 defensive) underwater and make them viable to the trait line and build on land as underwater is an addition to the game not THE STANDARD gameplay. So don;t make underwater battle seem so stand alone and part of it own world. Then you will see that your underwater conquest map will be successful.

Edit: Number 2)