Guild Wars 2

I just want to say something about the struggle of better gear.

Actually many players would like to craft some sort of equip.
The problem is that some of them is a grindfest way more than lineage 2 ._.

I’d like a decent sword SKIN as many Others, i cannot afford 250 lodestones for 1000G
I’d like a legendary….i cannot afford a precursor..

And you know why this happens?
Because gold sellers manipulate the market alongside some players.

This divides equipment and skin in 2 categories.
1) easy toobtain
2) impossible for common players to obtain unless they play like bots or manipulate the market themselves or CHEAT.

You cannot have long term goals because the most you try to reach them, the more they get far.

So you are basically pushed in fast farm like cof1, and anet obviously patch them asap….without addressing the other issue in the meantime…

i.e. an economy that lead the game to stagnation.

We don t need more tiers, we need more skins and obtainble by merit.

Fotm skins are a step in the right direction (save for the fact you drop randomly skins you cannot use) on the opposite legendaries are the icon of what is bad for the game expecially since nov15

Most players are obsessed and just farm in the most efficient way (rather playing) to get one…and i cannot blame them being a tier themselves.

You also said “glasscannons”
And glass cannons get shotted at 20…..with some fire and any agony tick.

It almost oneshot me at 14 with mesmer until i started to use sigil of generosity, a single hit was a pain.

nice to know the condition on shield btw <.<
Despite the fact staying in fire till shield seems to be a COMMON tactic at higher lvl fotm for eles.

D/D don t do that much dmg…
But i still wonder why cof speed runs doesn t keep a necro in the party <.< they completely destroy last boss saving minutes.
And are useful to save engineer also that happens to be the 2 slowest parts.

Yeah ele has the biggest AoE….
Its not like it does damage to everythink in it.

Often it hits few times….there is a reason if many players don t trait for larger AoE…..
Those 2 AoE have a long cooldown and a long cast time.

churning earth is a decent AoE/cast time unfortunately being centered on a light class makes it not so good in many dungeons as the D/D weaponset itself.

Ele are vaible…..but damage is not their strong point.
Also they are far behind best dungeon professions…doesn t matter wich weaponset you use.

So its not a L2P issue is a “ooh look its flashy…it will deal so much damage” that is exactly what lead many players to use elementalist to be then deluded.

@saulius DPS matters in many LEGIT dungeons like:
-Arah
-Fotm lava 30+

for example….

Easier dungeons are just fine with any class….even if heavy are way ahead any other.

evolverzilla.2359:

Elem has some of the best deffensive and supportive skills.

Elem has the best AoE offensive skills

…

Actually no.
You can read since forever elementalist quoting class description talking of releasing huge damage…..

We simply lack DPS (<===i.e. damage per second).

expecially considering how rotation and cooldows works (means you cannot choose any of those 20 skills whenever you want……you’ll need to wait more than their loooong cooldown).

DancingPenguins.9875:

LordByron.8369:

The real problem will be that we will see even more undergeared/unexperienced players join higher lvl fractals :|

There’s no incentive other than accidental joins. You play a much more difficult game for the same loot, seems counterproductive. I’m fairly sure you can kick after the patch and bring in replacements, so there’s that.

actually daily rewanrds do change…
Also you should tell that to all those people constantly dying at lava stage….
Yesterday i got a lvl26 Group that wiped 3 times at ice, and could not even complete 1st shaman encounter…

No DPS no survivability .-. i had to refuse trying again…there was really no point, one of them got there withotu AR at all (without the skill to compensate also)…but i wonder what are they doing at 26…….also how did they get there.

1 month ago i had 99,9999999% success in fotm 24+
Now i have 60% -.- the more you get close to 30, the easier it becomes due to better parties.

Tom Gore.4035:

More “dragon” encounters of absolutely trivial difficulty, happening at clockwork precision and giving negligible loot.

That’s exactly what we need, right?

they are fun….

Since nov15 community shifted from play to have fun, to play to have LOOT.
As predicted exactly…..

this is “progression”.

Ele Pow Tough Prec:
D/D
—Solo PvE—
DPS: [SCORE] / 7
Survivability: [SCORE] / 7
Support/Utility: [SCORE] / 7
Difficulty: [SCORE] / 8
Fun: [SCORE] / 9

—Group PvE— (Dungeons, Dynamic Events, etc.)
DPS: [SCORE] / 6
Survivability: [SCORE] / 5
Support/Utility: [SCORE] / 7
Difficulty: [SCORE] / 10
Fun: [SCORE] / 10
****************
Staff:
—Solo PvE—
DPS: [SCORE] / 4
Survivability: [SCORE] / 3
Support/Utility: [SCORE] / 8
Difficulty: [SCORE] / 9
Fun: [SCORE] / 1

—Group PvE— (Dungeons, Dynamic Events, etc.)
DPS: [SCORE] / 2
Survivability: [SCORE] / 8
Support/Utility: [SCORE] / 7
Difficulty: [SCORE] / 4
Fun: [SCORE] / 1

LFk.1408:

I do not die to one shaman arrow. That you even mention that means you have not done this before, because I don’t even die in one hit in my MF gear (not that I recommend using it). Granted, I have 30 AR, but you specify “even with agony res”.

I said lvl 30 with 25 AR…..
And saying SHIELD is an issue doesn t mean “i die at shaman”.

Means shaman get to sacrifices……

Arrow at 30 oneshots a balanced ele (knight with 16000 HP) with AR25 fyi.
Raw dmg+a tick of burning+few agony is more than enough……

Not a wonder at 29 is way easier ……and i don t die at all unless all my party does (did in 3 at 28).

but i should ve known better…everybody in forum is 50+ playing with pugs…and evading everything with monitor turned off while considering any other player noob.
I wonder how comes gw2lfg is quite empty at 30+……

P.S. regarding autoattack (i should say fire 1-2-3-4) on shaman:
L2R.

“to have access to other attunements faster”

I.E: you don t use rotation when the shaman is ALONE and without shield for so many reason any player should know.

1st being slow dps is better, 2nd is saving rotations for shield/elementals

the only thing i don t know is if condition counts for shield but considering similar bosses i’d say it doesn t.

It also ignores guardian scepter 1 so logically i thougt condition would not count…

You sure of it?

Gaudrath.6725:

LordByron.8369:

actually you run ele in AC path 3 because somehow for no apparent reason,, ice bow destroys borrows in 2 hits…..

Not because ice bow is strong……

Ice bow is a utility spell. Its utility happens to be demolition. And the non apparent reason is that ice bow’s area of effect is narrower than Meteor Shower but with similar number of faster projectiles, resulting in a much greater number of hits and thus quicker destruction of the target.

is what i though until i tried it on other burrows or other dungeons…

Only ac path 3 suffers so much dmg….

Any video of some mesmer playing GS sw/p in pve/dungeons?

I like that weapon set (also using full berserker equip) and i don t want to change despite the range issue.

But coming from an ele i started using a sort of “rotation” even with mesmer just to have the most shatters/skill use possible.

Now this rotation plays like (obviously its just to give the idea because any rotation varies according to situations):
GS4, GS3, GS1 swap
Pistol4, pistol 5, roll, shatter
Sw2, sw3, mirror images, shatter*

Issue i have….
I need to stay mid range with GS.
before i could go back in GS i need to get some distance (out of sw1 range) and i lose 2-3 seconds >.< before weapon cooldowns

Am i playing wrong?
Any suggestion PVE only? (means dungeon/fractals mostly).

*Also given the fact that the 4Th shatter skill is for defense, and the first is for raw damage, wich should i use in PvE while shatter 1 is coling down?

Ty u.u

Agree….more dragons, more pve fun u.u

Claw of Jormag is quite fun already despite itseems it wants tokill my graphic card (not an economic one), the same cannot be said about the other 2 :|

I’d want the quaggan backpack but currently there is a huge problem…..

Backpacks upgrade…..

Will a quaggan backpack be upgradable to ascended infused without losing quaggan skin?
Or should we wait until we have the backpack infused :| (250 ecto are quite a lot ._.).

Rikimeru Tokesbudz.3816:

Navzar.2938:

Rikimeru Tokesbudz.3816:

Voxdeus.1034:

Rikimeru Tokesbudz.3816:

i dont care what they do with aoe as long as they do something. the constant aoe spam in wvw is stupid and takes a lot of fun out of pvp .

Then stop zerging, and look for small groups to travel with. Or look for ways to flank and create a concave, instead of massing up on an easily AoE’d choke point.

To a large degree, it’s a L2P issue. The fact that people STILL think that zerging a choke is a viable play style kind of tells me that AoE isn’t strong enough.

i wasnt aware that attacking a castle gate is zerging a choke point. if you dont drop the gate how else are you going to get into the castle to cap it. the fact that there can be nonstop aoe’s blocking a castle gate from only a few people inside the castle is pretty ridiculous and has nothing to do with learning to play.

Using catapults of course. Having everyone stand next to the castle gate and attack it is usually a bad idea. If you do insist on it, then you just all stand in the same spot and bam, aoe from players mitigated because of the 5 person cap.

i dont stand at a castle gate unless im operating a ram. catapults dont make it rain fireballs nonstop for 20 minutes, players do, and standing there watching it rain fireballs for 20 minutes nonstop from a few players is ridiculous. i play a class with aoe and it is ridiculous and need the cooldowns increased.

when you see people complaining of staff elementalist you really know there is a huge problem…..

One of the worst classes in great need of a really strong buff makes people complain?

This is the problem….
it seems they should start asking players with proven experience something about the class/weapon they are using, rather then listening to random complaints…

I mean ask for PvE players at higher fotm……
Asking WWW skille dplayers in those vids (don t look at numbers we all know that dphoenix and the other mesmer are skilled and random players crying about those vids shouldn t even compare to them……unless they make a vid showing similar skills)
Same for PvP**************

Most players are infact complaining about SKILLED players and seems wanting toremove skill from the equation for battle resutls…..

Also PvE is more played than www and pvp and most classes good in PvP are bad in PvE….don t need more nerfs if they don t want to just lose PvE players that already struggle…..

Also we still need details on Wich aoe are a problem in dungeon……people are concerned by that statement more than everything…..Nobody sees any AoE.

So please Anet give us some feedback on that.

*its what happens in major competitive fighting games because noway devs are more experienced in the game of some selected players….that is known since SF2.

a couple of infos…

In the past playing lvl 20 + was quite easy due to people being experienced..

Now lot of players undergeared and moreover underexperienced are sitting at 26-30 making lot of groups fail at lava stage -.- (if you cannot do that without 2 guardians play lower lvl fractals….reward is even worse than 20-24).

I really doubt we will see so many players at 30-40-50 because as they are now they requires not only skills but also particular classes and builds…. (hint: opposite to what they say they don t use AoE).

Also with upcoming patch you will be able to join upper levels, it means that with 0 AR you can play 1-10, with 5-10 AR you can play easily 10-20, with 20-25 you can play 20-30.

The real problem will be that we will see even more undergeared/unexperienced players join higher lvl fractals :|

And before someone say i am an elitist i just say its not so, its called respect….
I know i have issues with lava shaman 30+ so i stay in 20-29 until i can evade his shots 100% >.> rather than trying to find a Group that take me to higher level where i could be a burden.

The proof most players lack that type of education is already common as i said in 20-30…..

So i completely agree on gear check b4 fractals……

P.S. remember you don t need to get to lvl 40 fotm ….lvl 10 is more than enough.
Lvl 30 + is not for everybody AR or not
And this comes from a player that despite experience and 500+ consider himself not ready for 30+

P.P.S. also it seems 20-24 rewards are better than 25-30 >.>….it was already so a month ago due to a bug…and imho they didn t fix it properly…

actually you run ele in AC path 3 because somehow for no apparent reason,, ice bow destroys borrows in 2 hits…..

Not because ice bow is strong……

Benjamim.9120:

@Xplosiv

well if I follow your logic almost all classes need a nerf…..specially mesmer shatter build ……..bunker are supposed to supress damage (just like bunker guardian)………

Take a look at this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nL9mN67DwmU

when people post vids do they ever consider potential skill of players and opponents?

It seems quite skilled to me and earning their points legit.
He does things like using 1 sec distortion skills efficiently for example….

What did his opponents do?

Xplosiv.1503:

I just love people like you, who play ele and defend their class ^ without any proper input in actual improovement.
.

cool and your proper inputs would be?
Not a single skill nor trait nor number was mantioned in your post….
Also being able to survive 2VS1 is common to many classes….and could be also due to a thing called “SKILL” that should be involved in battle outcome.

Do you find eles standing still invulnerable? or you just see them evading skills and positioning carefully?

And then people complain about skills like churning earth… ._. that is easier to evade than kohler in AC.

i repeat find me any post asking for an elementalist….or a necro or an engineer…..or a ranger.

That also pictures a small part of community…

Warriors are overplayed but 90% groups that lacks at least 2 heavy for a difficult dungeon, will just require some.
That is a Group will probbaly have 2 heavy anyway, but iat third slot if they don t they just require one..

Any fotm player can confirm…

You are denying the evidence….

I find people assuming that heavy only Group are bad players, have just a bad memory.

SInce release first to finish hard dungeon path (before dungeons nerfs) were Warrior/guardian groups.

People who read dungeon section often can confirm u.u

Just to have a reason to calm down or worry more…

Is it possible to know from Anet wich would be those AoE they saw too powerful in dungeons?

is what makes most people scared mostly because nobody sees any aside 100B.

Animus Necandi.5386:

When you say D/D you mean Dual-Daggers?

yes Dagger/Dagger
its also the most fun weapon set.

I know a staff ele is concerned to try a melee set on a squishy class, but mobility compensate somehow, attack are faster and crowd control is better.

Leo G.4501:

LordByron.8369:

mist form a 75 sec CD….that lasts 3 seconds…
You can ress someone in 3 seconds? nice…..
It also won t break stun nor will cancel conditions, and also get hit from traps.

That’s not the point? >_>

You can’t rez someone while using shield stance nor can you use shield stance while you’re rezzing (and not interrupt the process). You can do this with mist form…or arcane shield…or obsidian flesh.

really ….. is ressing downed in PvE an issue or are you climbing mirrors?
Your raw HP/armor does the same of our 75CD skills without even pressing a button.

If it came to it, you could have mist form + obsidian flesh + arcane shield + using magnetic wave to deflect projectiles and maybe even swirling winds before you start to give you some extra time…so at least 10sec to rez someone who’s down.

yes and then sit in the room for the rest of the fight……
But now ressing a downed is what makes a class OP…..

Perspective!

Denying the drawbacks? You’re doing the exact same thing with warrior. It has drawbacks too especially when building it to do those big numbers you’re craving for elementalist.

ALL current posts on gw2lfg specifying class requirement…..

LF3M P1 runs. warrior/guard/mesmer

LF1M DPS warrior for kitten FARM.

[LF 1 guardian] only !

HIGHLY EXPERIENCED MESMER LFG SPEED RUN COF1 STRICTLY NO NOOBS ALL DPS WARRIORS/GUARDIANS Must be able to do it at least 3 times.

LF1M cof exp speed farm! need 1 warrior (high dps only) If we don’t have enough dps a new grp will be formed

Should i go on?

i think we are losing time…..

Excuse that people are bad and donesn t understand is just not true since even from release, extremely hard dungeons were first done by 100% WAR/GUARDIAN groups.

So considering first to beat hard part cannot be considered BAD players the point is quite clear.

P.S. also happens in fotm Group then when there are not at least 2-3 heavy, Group disbands.

P.P.S. D/D ele is a melee class

i dont actually care of PvP or www they are already a mess….
what they should look at is PvE and even D/D there needs a strong buff not a nerf.

Akbaroth.2861:

from what i can tell most people talking about the incoming nerfs did not watch the live feed and are jumping to conclusions based some people who did watch it overreacting.

Last time i heard the word overreacting was 15 november 2012…..
It then proved to be not overreacting….

as the the dreaded aoe nerf they were very explicit in saying they won’t outright nerf aoe skills (i except a few may get nerfed, but it won’t be a blanket nerf to all aoes), but want to provide more incentive to use single target skills. they also said that this would have to be a careful and gradual change overtime.

They said AOE are an issue in dungeons.

Actually AoE are extremely WEAK in dungeons while a couple professions most single target are extremely overpowered in pve…..

It’s just normal of being afraid considering they are talking of nerfs to things nobody complained, while ignoring strong issues in the eyes of every player (see LF heavy…)

Also having 5 max targets was already a huge nerf.

ELe has skill rotation as a drawback system and a necessity….nerfing even few of his aoe would result as a hit in the department where they are already lacking…

I.E. damage.

If they also nerfs survivability you get how comes people are worried as hell.

Patch history is a further reason to that.
They more than once destroyed professions and builds with nerfs without compensations.

i expect things along the lines of changing dungeons so that there are more points where single target damage would be useful, such as reducing the number of enemies in certain encounters, while there will be many encounters where aoe damage will be important some of the fights would be changed to fight fewer but stronger foes.

so you will use your water 2 skill while warrior will lol and just kill everything in few hits.

i’ll admit that with guild wars 1 anet doesn’t have a good track record for balancing, but those of us who have been paying attention to the news of gw2 for the past 5 years know that they designed the new skills/traits system from the ground up with ‘ease-of-balancing’ in mind.

actually they have a bad track even in gw2…..

What makes me worry more is that they actually don t provide real infos on wich AoE are problematic….

If they discussed aoe with players it would’ve been better at least….
being vague makes me expect the worse…and expect the usual nerf to the ground to many random aoe.

You don t nerf something that needs a buff usually >__>

its not a news that we either die to anything or we son t do barely any damage.

PvE we need a strong buff for sure.

LFk.1408:

Being more to the point, I’ve never really had the problem OP describes.

For comparison, I also play a Guardian, which I think everyone considers a more universally accepted class, and I don’t know which one I really feel is more powerful.

I hope i won t have to explain to u why NOTHING in fotm is even comparable to a guardian.
-lot of projectile shield with long uptime
-Aegis
-bubbles
-binding blade -.-
-better healing to Whole Group.

I will note that I don’t use a D/D build in fractals – this is one of the situations where I prefer the Staff (the other being siege situations in WvW).

I hate staff eles….. they just slow downs runs…..
Damage output is terrible unless not galss cannon and if GC they just die to a breeze.

D/D on his side just cannot be used in many situations.

I consider the Lava fractal a specialty of the staff Ele, as they possess the combination of AOE (for tars), quickly ticking attacks (to break shield)

excuse me what O__o?
shield is actually a huge problem for staff ele.
We know staff Attacks are slow and unreliable.
With my mesmer i can gwt shield down in no time, with staff i just “survive somehow”.

You know what’s the ONLY strategy i found for lava shaman 20+?
spamming autoattack just to have access to other attunements when i need them…
Also i need to have fire ready and fire 5 in particular for when shields appears, hoping some meteor will hit the shield….while i spam 75CD defensive skills in the right bar.

and survivability necessary to nearly solo the boss if need be. The fewest players alive I’ve gotten success with in the 20-29 range is 2 (one person other than myself). I cite this example because for whatever reason, a lot of groups I run into seem to be afraid of this fight.

You cannot solo theboss unless you use a guardian.
And glasscannon dies easily to 1 shaman Arrow even without agony (dmg + condition you often get 2-3 in a row)

Ele doesn t give any contribution aside not dying with staff.
It mostly provide another target and FEW hits to shield

Knox.3748:

Areann.1304:

I hope they see One Hundred Blades as an aoe, so much damage on an eight seconds cooldown

Are u serious? Because u dont even need to dodge HB.. Just one step back and he missed.

cool …
Unluckily you are not a mob…..
Mobs do not evade 1Hb

Agree on bad “balancing” history of anet also.

We have tons of examples..
Look at eng, look to staff ele, look what they did with cliffside or arah.

But the problems is when they find problems where there isn t any like this time….

I really want to hear from them WHERE they saw AoE as an issue in dungeons or PvE.

Leo G.4501:

Molch.2078:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Endure_Pain
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shield_Stance
They have…

The difference between Endure Pain and Mist Form/Obsidian Flesh is, Endure pain isn’t an invulnerability. It’s simply “Take 0 damage”. If a condition is attached to an attack (like bleed and poison) you will take damage. If an attack hits you in Mist Form, nothing happens.

Shield Stance is a good Invulnerability skill but come on, it’s a Shield. If it didn’t do something like that, I doubt it’d be worth taking at all. That’s why Warriors use shields, because they can get 3sec of invulnerability out of it and can’t get that anywhere else. PS: also while using it, you can only move around. You can’t dodge roll, you can’t heal, you can’t attack. All you can do is use stances or shouts (instant cast). At least on Mist form, you can rez someone.

mist form a 75 sec CD….that lasts 3 seconds…
You can ress someone in 3 seconds? nice…..
It also won t break stun nor will cancel conditions, and also get hit from traps.

Focus has 2 Blast finishers; one in water and one in earth. With scepter, that’s 4 blast finishers. With might on attunement swap to fire + boon duration, you can get 13 stacks per fire wall. 2 Fire walls with Might of 30+ seconds is over 25 stacks. You just have to juggle fire attunement’s fire wall in your rotation to keep it up. You don’t have to constantly be stacking might, just get the initial quick stacks up and it’s easy to maintain.

With dagger off-hand, you just have to try and use ring of fire as often as you can and it works its magic in a similar way.

Cooldowns…

Your opinion is extremely biased and try to promote non existent things while denying drawbacks that makes our class bad.

Just fyi a glass cannon war has more armor and more life than a balanced or tanky ele.
So if you say it requires skill for a war to survive, figure how much is needed for any ele.

You can show me how good you are with D/D in fotm 20+ i’ll use one too…
There is a reason if i never find any aside me…..(not that i m that good but i use D/D since forever…).

P.S. giving might to party is not as you think…
You sacrifice your damage output, locking yourself out of skills with long cd, but also is not everyone will take all 25stacks…..

Players needs to spread out and most stacks has a small aoe, you will give 10 at best at half party…in REAL game.

P.S: btw even debating War VS ele in PVE is absurd….we shouldn t even discuss that due to the clear HUGE difference there is between the 2.

The best of all VS a subpar class

60 traits (30 water and 30 arcana) gives D/D ele ONE tool to survive, with very strong downsides being:

-low damage
-short range (not able to switch weapon)

Also to be survivable you need certain traiting and not only offensive burst but also defensive long CD skills (75CD mostly that cannot be traited because you already have spent your traits for healing).

Now this is not even enough in PvE where D/D eles are just BAD….
The higher the difficulty the most you are forced to use staff to stay ranged.

Also if you face any object like turrets etc you are helpless.
See in AC you cannot in any way destroy gargoyle heads…
Or again in ascalon fractal you cannot reach oil.

In www you still can be easily killed by traps, by ranged and by daze or just stacking more than 2 conditions….

Also you are helpless in sieges (people who says just switch to staff obviously never played an ele in www).

So nerf aoes….the class becomes completely unusable in PvE……where it needs a buff in every weapon set, and the worst in WWW.

Take away also some healing and you get a class without offense and no survival mechanic……that is what people were used to face……

Just a thing in case anet read the elitist that finds everything easy because their 2 guardians Group makes the run smooth…..

Most party relies on “glitches” (*) or to items to skip or get past some parts with items like spykits.

I’d like to see groups survive dredges first part without spykits…..

Also most people cannot seem to survive lava shaman…
Having a balanced and a glasscannon i can understand its harder for some builds….(despite the fact if i know i cannot do a fractal i don t go on higher levels until i am experienced enough….to avoid groups losing hours -.-).

So wouldn t say that fotm are so easy like a very small part of players with fixed groups pretend.
Infact yu don t find many groups on gw2lfg at 30+

*dunno if cliffside spawn is a glitch or is intended.

Leo G.4501:

I do respect posters, but get some perspective if you’re going to be comparing.

You say more and more elementalists are forced to use staff in high-end fractals? Same goes for warrior with rifle.

read careful this sentence…..

Its the key on why you are wrong…….

Don’t pretend that, just because Warriors can be built to withstand more damage, that they can also pull off huge crit 100blades too or that Warriors don’t feel pigeonholed into using GS because most of their other weapons (hammer, mace main, sword off, axe off, etc) are lackluster to pointless in more situations than not.

There is a lot you’re overlooking with regards to warrior and mesmer when comparing to elementalist.

reading what you have written and having a mesmer tells me that you should careful think to elementalist base mechanics…

You cannot SWITCH weapon…

It happens that i have a mesmer and in ANY situation i can switch from GS, to SW/P.
As a war you can switch from rifle to GS at will (given 8 seconds CD).

We have attunements that doesn t cover range…
Range is an issue for ANY ele weapon……because if its true we have attunements, range remains weapon based having the worst drawback of any other class in RANGE limitations (staff long range, daggers short range).

For that for example you cannot switch from staff ro D/D (or S/D or whatever) when legendary shaman spawns his shield/elementals.

On the contrary you can put away your rifle, getting near the guardian with GS (skill that pulls mobs) and just get rid of some elementals with your GS 100B.

P.S. and scepter and focus instead have damage/mobility issues…..whatever you choose you are stuck with a huge drawback.

What is bad is despite that you cannot compare to any warrior nor tank nor glasscannon, nor balanced.

P.P.S. and no nobody wants an ele in high lvl fractals unless their party has already 3 heavy.
High fractals are all about glasscannon with survivability and burst.

Ele lacks defense for the party comparable to guardian virtues and shields
Lacks comparable healing power
Even for crowd control they are far worse…..(1 second stun and things like that…..).
damage is subpar and the single range drawback is too much of a burden.

combo fields are not enough when you can just have another damage dealer or be almost immortal with 2 guardians in your party…..(i often stay far from them because the game becomes boring :| no need to evade no need to do anything but autoattack).

Nausicca.6038:

In WvW:

If you use a OH sword/X and have to go melee to burst people, staff is the best choice when things become tricky. And you can generate clones pretty fast as well.

agree, i use GS and sword/pistol or focus
I have too often to stay midrange where GS is suboptimal :|

but actually being fun, i don t care

EsLafiel.4517:

Mesmer was fun to me, from lvl 1 and I believe that if it was not fun from lvl 1 to you. Then you are not a true mesmer player.

That goes forever one here.

lol why?
I found most classes not balanced at mid/low levels..
Lacking skills/traits makes them unnecessarily hard to play…..

when your shatters do almost no damage and you cannot create many clones, your phantasm deals no damage and all you have is sword 2 its not that fun.

When i got to 80 i found myself playing using any single spell i have on 2 weapons and right bar, continuosly…

I learnt proper rotations and positioning….quite similar to my ele but with better dmg.

Not to tell that since i hit 80 i switched main u.u.

Leo G.4501:

In short, stop going Dagger/dagger. Stop only using cantrips. Learn to dodge. Maybe then you won’t be so outclassed at everything.

1st learn to respect posters….You never saw me playing……and if i was bad at dodging i couldn t play fotm 26-30 with D/D.

2nd if scepter ele is so good why on earth is not popular at all?
I know your answer, people are bad, you are the only good.

I won t comment cantrips part because its in the same post writing L2P and i find quite a bad mistake.

snacktime.1082:

Fortunately, they know that most players have no idea what goes into making a game and the kind of people behind it, so they dont’ get upset when they see ridiculous comments about them not caring, or not playing a class, or being stupid, or whatever.

I’ll tell you that almost everything you wrote are completely wrong.

I don t know how you get to your conclusions…but coming from competitive fighting games i could tell you that most players could single handedly destroy any developer and had more experience of them in balancing and better ideas…..

To the point that often they rely on tournament winners to get feedback and balance their games…..

And i m not talking of some lesser VG company…i m talking of the most known ones….

Both in this forum than in theirs you can find details and DATA that shows a deep knowledge…..

I accept that in gw2 most players are not that aknowledged of game mechanics, yet it doens nt need rocket science to see they are doing a huge mistake when they say “aoe are too strong in dungeons”.

Unless the changes too the game are so deep to change the base game itself.
But i think nobody thinks it will happen.

Its an unneeded, unasked change and mostly based on an assumption so wrong that can be seen in any dungeon run…

I think they are reading their data in a wrong way…

for dungeon i run:
-D/D
-armor of earth, arcane shield (arcane blast in easier one for more might stacks), mist —form
-glyph of elementals

WvW
same….

I’m often forced to switch to staff though….

for me at 60 <.<
i went 20-60 with craft due to the huge annoyance that was b4 (trying if it got better every 10 lvls).

At 60 i planned to craft at least other 10 lvls, but i enjoyed pve so i just lvled to 80

fotm meta 2 guardians 3 warriors…

Also for cof1 better:
1 mesmer
1 necro
3 warriors

way faster…..

AC meta:
5 warriors

that is why most of us PvE players are concerned by statements saying “AoE in dungeon are too powerful” it seems they don t look at their data in the right way.

NdranC.5107:

haviz.1340:

NdranC.5107:

Conditions from fields are negligible, specially because burning only stacks in duration and we already can keep permanent burning by ourselves. Bleeds from Churning Earth are nothing, if i crit with 25 stacks of might and churning earth for 4-5k direct damage I’m really lucky most of the time is a non-crit for 2k, plus my bleeds do around 4k thats around 6k-8k damage (over time) with our biggest hitting skill. My mesmer can do the same damage instantly and also in aoe while being invulnerable and on a 6 sec cd without any might stacks.

Granted, we’re comparing a support/bunker build to a damage build, but what we do as support is not good damage, despite what some people would make you think. If you try to build and gear an elementalist for damage, you lose all the benefits from support and barely get anything in exchange, you do more damage but still less than any decent war/mes/thief, and you lose a gigantic amount of defense and utility.

At any rate, the biggest issue i have with all of this is not just about elementalists, but with all clases. Traits, utilities and Weapon skills are not different or interesting enough to create “builds” they are all shades of the same roll, which makes it easy to identify what is the “better” build.

Where do you get those numbers from? AC, CM? At lvl 80 my churning earth does about 10-12k direct damage when critted (chance at ~65%) with some might stacks (10-15) without proccing bolt to the heart and vital striking (which would increase that by 30%). Air autoattacks in d/d deals 2.5-3k and they strike twice.

If you try to build ele for damage you lose healing power which is bad anyway and defense. What utility do you lose exactly?

I was comparing a bunker build ele with shatter berserker mesmer, I said so on my post. The whole point is that I am tired of the 0/10/0/30/30 ele coming to the forums and saying they can do it all PLUS good or amazing damage. No… your damage is not amazing. Btw those numbers come from fractals. My mesmer can shatter every 9s for more damage your churning earth can do every 30 secs.

completely agree

I happen to have a BALANCED ele D/D (ele since release not fotm) with power/PRECISION/toughness set

I do half damage of my power/precision/crit mesmer….

And mesmer does significantly less of warriors too…..so figure.

D/D ele unless glass cannon, is low damage even compared to other tank or balanced classes.

All you have are lot of long combos that requires opponent to be nearly AFK to give us a little burst getting to average non melee damage despite we should have a boost being melee (and another being light forced in melee)

Regards healing….
Its ele survival mechanic…..be stealth, or heavy armor+high HP (banners etc) or clones etc etc every class has one.

D/D has already problems because often being light cannot afford to go melee and is forced to use staff -.- with risible damage (se the more you advance in fotm, the more you will be using staff……).

P.S: churning earth does 6000 direct damage with knight set that is not TANK….
Also it requires to stand still for many seconds…..with a LIGHT class.
I really don t think you’ll do 10.000 + direct without fire grab that is a short range long CD and completely horrible skill except for damage.

Aside the usual thief player trolling in ele section… (feel free to spot them its easy)

Ele is noway the best ranged DPS……

Unless you consider aoe damage multiplyied for number of targets….

And considering that the key in this game is to kill single targets FAST, that skill is the most unwanted as in any other game……

Because single target damage is way too low.
Pair with this low survivability…..

Otherwise you need to sacrifice dps almost completely.

Combo field are good, its fun to see how staff lacks finishers, and D/D requires you to stay near opponents, things almost unviable in PvE with a glasscannon (in difficult dungeons even an ele tank cannot do that).

DiogoSilva.7089:

1. How many of you poor, saint souls have never, ever abused AoE to do dynamic events?

2. How many of you have seen mobs dodging your AoEs?

3. How many of you haven’t abused AoEs to clean entire capture points in pvp (and farm glory in the process)?

4. And WvW? WvW zergs are an AoE spamfest. This is a fact. None of you can argue against that. The format itself motivates that.

5. When you fight two mobs, are you going to quickly burst one so you can have some room to breath while fighting the remaining one?

1) as said some classes cannot choose of what skill to use….dunno what you mean with abuse, but when a class is based on skill rotationsto do few dmg , cannot do anything else.
5 mos cap is more than enough

2) it happens a lot that in PvE mobs try to interrupt you with stuns etc….it may be due to their strong number…..also you can see that classes with AoE are lacking survivability and already aoe damage is quite low.
You won t see aoe hitting for 10.000+ except aoe with little cones…..(100B).

3) i don t play pvp, mostly because how bad is impcating PvE…..and imho Killing the first window of the game without even reaching a good audience.

4) WWW has bigger issues…..taking care of them should be done and not nerfs to aoe without before solving key issues…it will lead just to more imbalance and less players.
After all 50% WWW is nightcapping….

5) its actually what is done by almost anyone…

The problem here is easy…..
Nerfing AoE would require a complete rework of many classes…..

We all know they won t do it (they have yet to fix so many skills), and even if they do, would be required new skills to be tested.

Lowering output damage of some classes that already are not wellcome in PVE and considered quite bad, is a bad move.

Saying PvE is a problem in dungeon while being the exact opposite is what makes us worry.

Anyone ever saw AoE helping skip parts in dungeons?
COnsider limit to 5 target also……

Playing any fotm 20+, or even AC would be enough to see they are basing their patch on something that for players is wrong.

Actually as too many players learned…..:

Anet just seems to go Always against the players.

They just do everthing they can to make life harder and NOT more fun for players.

They nerf skills, nerf drops, remove playstyles etc all so fast, leaving compensation in other field to balance in the “to do list” forever.

That is the problem…..
See ARAH.
See what they did in cliffside some time ago
See what they did to engineer

There is a reason if players expect the worst any patch they do.

Most of us (LEGIT PLAYERS not exploiting anything) expect to have the chance of playing dungeon reduced from next patch….and i bet it will be so until following patch.

ThiBash.5634:

At the moment, the D/D build (which is more single target orientated) deals about twice the damage of a staff build (which is mostly AoE).

This is what the intended effect of the nerf will be. Hence, if the nerf is applied, it’ll be as if it were applied twice on the staff elementalist.

yes and less than half than a warrior.

Note a difference

D/D melee
Staff ranged

There is a reason if you rarely see a D/D ele in higher fractals….and if you see, it will change weapon on many bosses.

yeah other prefession has some skills to deflect projectiles…

They doesn t have virtues.
They have few stability skills with long CD
They cannot equip so many deflecting skills.

i d just like to say that most profession with permaswiftness works exactly as mesmer…..
They cannot stack/overwrite.

They just pick 2+ skills and trait them to let cooldown before boon fades away.

just to know wich classes have permaswiftness with stacking?
with focus /runes of centaur mesmer has permaswiftness.

actually 2 things

1) our fears got true every time till now

2) read again interview…..its talks about how dealing X dmg to 5 opponents is for them like dealing dmg X5

What do you expect from devs like that? an intelligent and coherent balancing patch?
If you do just change section and ask engineers.

Nibiru.1423:

Don’t get me wrong guards are very useful in dungeons but NOT a must in fractals upto level 30.

Did 30 daily last night with 2 mesmers, 1 ele, 1 ranger and a thief.

Not a problem at all, if you must NEED heavy in your group your obviously hiding behind them :P

Please guards/warriors I do love you in my group thou, not discriminating against anyone, quite the opposite tbh.

I would rather have 5 players of any race in my group that know what they’re doing over a setup that looks good on paper.

this thing sound true on paper….its not so.

I play D/D balanced ele…a thing you rarely see in fotm for many reasons.

Now when i play without a guardian i can just double my attack rate without caring of positioning and defensive skill….

Same scenario without guardian i have to halve my attack rate to be sure not to die, to take time to heal more often, and to recover defensive skills.

As for DPS?
Well guardian and warrior are on a complete other level…..

Mechanic wise?
well you know well how guardian will do easily uncategorized…

Also they are the few to be able to tank and dps at same time along with warriors.

Just did a 4 men lvl 28 with 3 guardians >_> i was concerned about dps….we vaporized everything getting most difficult fractals….xcept for ascalon..(funny how i can just get into the mobs without caring….while without guardians i get oneshot in 2 seconds if i try the same tactic).

We also dis a couple with 1 AFK (in 3).

Animando.7956:

LordByron.8369:

NO

AoE is a different thing from Cone…..
Expecially melee skills.

Any sword attack, hits a cone and isn t considered AoE.

AoE = area of effet. Cone = area. Geometrical logic?

Some melee skills are Aoe (Mesmer sword #1 first and second strikes) some aren’t (third strike)

yeah nice,…..

the point is if you use a term with a specific meaning that was created to describe certain things in games, you just use the meaning the word was created for,

We all know cones are considered AoE, maybe breath effects.

Dunno if it was created for D&d but it was used at that time and while a fireball was an aoe, a dragon breath wasn t

Even in gw2 its clear wich spells are aoe.