Guild Wars 2

So lets get the facts out there shall we:
- Some top rangers actually think this patch buffed them
- Having tested it against GOOD PEOPLE (like probably nobody else on this forum has) the elite res spirit is still auto-win team fights
- The fact they get launched is borderline irrelevant
- Spirits still body block you
- You still cant see anything ever
- Spirit ranger is still the most insanely powerful build AND the lamest by far as it is a build which LITERALLY stops you from playing the game by making you see nothing
- Bad people in this thread moan about something which was barely even nerfed
- Some people are saying this patch was actually a buff
- The spirits passive buffs still linger for basically the whole time

Yeh. In fact the res spirit got buffed as now if it dies 10 seconds after spawning it then you get it back 50 seconds faster.

Spirit ranger still needs nerfing to make it bad so that people can actually get back to seeing anything which happens ever.

Well having tested it tonight spirit ranger is still too strong. I say too strong because the build exists and is very very good. The res spirit is just insanely good basically winning team fight by itself still.

Still most games have tons of spirit rangers and you have no clue what is going on during most team fights.

So yeh. Still needs more of a nerf

BurrTheKing.8571:

Wombat.3510:

BurrTheKing.8571:

If Spirit Rangers are to be removed from the meta I want it to be because Warriors are countering them, not because they were nerfed into oblivion.

That’s why I stopped using spirits. I can’t describe how nice it was to have stunbreaks again!

That’s a good example of player-driven change. I bet you would be pretty strong vs my build because you actually bring some sort of counters, Spirit Rangers do not. People keep claiming Warrior is too strong when they most likely never even attempted to switch up their build to account for it. Some of those same people complain about the current meta while trying to nerf the very class that has the means to counter it.

People dont moan because warrior is OP. They moan because getting stunned for at least 4 seconds every 8 seconds really isnt very fun.

I think I would still like to see some sort of nerf to the elite spirit. Maybe cut its HP by a third? Or make it so it doesnt activate on death?

Having played a bit spirit rangers are still seem very strong.

jmatb.6307:

I’m not talking about how Necro counters S/D thief. Anybody that doesnt have CC is going to have trouble vs. a Necro lol.

I’m talking about how S/D thief can get free kills on Mesmers and Eles the whole match without really trying. It’s like starting out in Dota 2 with a lvl 10 carry in that matchup lol

Yeh S/D thief will kill mesmer and ele with their eyes closed. It will kill anything though, even if it is losing it can run off and come back with full cooldowns (cos it doesnt have any) vs a class who has blown all his cooldowns.

For pvp and for balance this patch LOOKS good. Although the proof will be in the testing.

And here is why:

Yes it didnt hit alot of the OP builds and lame skills. But at least it was a baby step in the correct direction. Which is better than a scattergun approach which produced the dhumfire patch.

The positives:

1, Spirit ranger was the worst thing about pvp by quite some distance. Obviously the build was exceptionally powerful. But more than this it ruined all fights just purely down to how many characters are on the screen at once. Hopefully this build is not viable whatsoever (I doubt this is the case but —->testing will show) and if it is then this reduces team fights from 15 on 15 to more like 5 on 5.

2, By reducing the clutter you will be able to see even the stupidly tiny asurans figures and maybe even some skill will come back to the game.

3, Many necros have said a slight reduction in bleeds would help nerf necro. I suggested this grasping dead change on the forums some time ago and I would extend it to the mark of blood which is probably too strong for its cd, its aoe nature and the fact it gives regen. BUT this change is undoubtedly a step in the right direction. Necro is strictly worse than before.

So IF this patches succeeds in cleaning up the battlefield by eliminating the main culprit of AI spam then this will be very positive for many people’s enjoyment of the game.

Then gradually they can work on bringing other ridiculous skills and builds into line.

At least now there will be fun to be had in gw2 pvp. And all fights wont just be like “wtf is going on here, I literally cannot see a thing”.

Chopps.5047:

Lordrosicky.5813:

What are you all on about. They have been working very hard to balance for the last two months.

You guys dont understand how much effort it takes to make grasping dead give 2 bleeds and not 3. This is 2 months work on its own. Be grateful for what you get.

You have inside info? Then what’s next? Making traps blockable?

Next balance patch should be in december. They are working hard with it at the moment and hoping everything can come together. They hit the necro and ranger this patch so it is sword thief next patch. They are considering reducing the sword auto attack damage by 0.005%, but only on tuesdays between 4-5pm. It is taking alot of work though. You wouldnt understand.

They are hoping that by the year 2043 they might have bought this build into line.

What are you all on about. They have been working very hard to balance for the last two months.

You guys dont understand how much effort it takes to make grasping dead give 2 bleeds and not 3. This is 2 months work on its own. Be grateful for what you get.

Dont worry. Someone who is good will come up with a new ranger build then all you baddies can jump on the bandwagon. Hang tight.

Zanthrax.6538:

Lordrosicky.5813:

….The mesmer and ele dps is way too high. Once you remove the sword thief (ele/mesmer cant win this) and necro/ranger dominance then you will have another broken and lame meta where mesmer and ele damage is way too high for all the extra things they can provide….

@Devs I highlighted the part that I feel you need to reconsider….you mentioned ele and mesmer are in a good spot once we tone down the condi damage which counters them so, however from our experience as a PvP Playerbase we know that the moment condi damage is reduced and the specs that counter these 2 professions get toned down these 2 professions of Mesmer and Ele will become the new brokenly OP profession in the meta because of their burst capabilities.

With all due respect, if you do intend to JUST nerf condi damage etc please be ready and I sincerely mean this, be ready to roll out quick fixes of tiny changes to mesmer and ele prior to the sept 17th patch, simple tweaks like this need to happen frequently in large disparity meta games. To give an example with the Elementalist. When specs that counter them get toned down they are now in a position to run their usual fresh air s/d or s/f burst builds, the issue with said burst setup majority of it is off the global cooldown so chainable quite quickly together, and above that the cooldown for fresh air and similar burst capabilities is quite low which I don’t have a problem with but its burst damage is too high for its low cooldown and off the global cooldown capabilities.

I hope you take this advice under consideration and if you don’t I would sincerely appreciate perhaps chatting to us on SOTG why you feel ele and mesmer’s burst isn’t too much given the apparent condi nerfs etc. Thank you for your time.

Wow someone else gets it :O Not to mention ele damage on downed players is the best there is by a mile.

Daishi.6027:

Glass ele and Glass mes are both high risk high reward, that frankly get shut down really easily.

Condi builds in this current meta have no risk and high reward (I’d even be willin to argue condi mes falls into that category almost) the problem is with the risk reward factors. Dagger thief pre nerf IMO was never rally broken other than they can burst 100-0 at leasure with no risk during set up. Which risk during set up and easily avoidable burst is the general case with Mesmer and Ele.

The previous meta and standings of mes and ele were not OP in anyway unless you A – didn’t know how to react to them. Or B – they caught you with your pants down with all your C/Ds popped.

Mesmer GS and ele burst is basically impossible to avoid. Also standing 1200 away spamming gs is hardly skill based, difficult or risky as a mesmer. The only thing shutting it down is OP condi spam and brokenly OP s/d thief. The ele burst is pretty much undodgable and is aoe. Again its bad atm just because s/d thief just owns them and condi spam owns them. It doesn’t change that the damage is way too high. 1 shotting people isnt a good thing.

Like I said. They will probably listen to people like you who say this wont happen. But the end result will be another balance disaster because they just make kneejerk reactions without considering how one change effects another.

Your post is pretty much just plain wrong in every respect. I can’t really prove that thoug so you are entitled to your view.

When you nerf sword thief, ranger, necro, all ai, stunlock warriors and elixr r (which you surely will)…..then please remember the effect this has on mesmer and ele. These classes will then not be held down by the weight of condi spam which counters them hard.

The mesmer and ele dps is way too high. Once you remove the sword thief (ele/mesmer cant win this) and necro/ranger dominance then you will have another broken and lame meta where mesmer and ele damage is way too high for all the extra things they can provide.

So when you nerf condis also nerf these classes dps.

Everybody knows this to be true who is good at the game. If you listen to people on the forums you will have another broken meta, just with different culprits.

Necro didnt need buffing ever. It was fun and balanced. Other stuff needed its condi removal being worse. Please dont repeat the same mistakes again.

17,000 that is 0.5% of people who bought the game. lol, truly awful retention rate.

And its funny because solo q killed team queue. And solo q is dead itself.

Terrible game is terrible. Anet will know this. They have their internal figures. Yet in spite of this they chose to let the game die by not making changes due to some pax tournament which is promoted a ton and is a one-off and yet still cant get close to other games get just from streaming.

Also 17k is way too high. Alot of people came back or tried out solo q. But then quit because of how crap everything was. I would guess 1000 active pvpers.

It will just be the same old kitten from the same old people. Yeh, we all know the opinions of the people who love to soap box on twitch and things. Talk about beating a dead horse.

That is the truth.

Xom.9264:

Conquest is why its a fail plain and simple. Deathmatch style is what people watch and want to play more.

Have you played pvp? Most fights involve just clicking your buttons as tiny asuras run around the screen. Take any screenshot pretty much ever during gw2 pvp and you wont have a clue what is going on because it is impossible to tell. Even with the ai and effects you can hardly see the players. I doubt any of this would change regardless of the game modes. Although I do agree more game modes would of been cool. That ship has sailed though I am afraid.

Like others have said, it gets to a point where you dont care enough to be mad at this game….the forums are like the cooling down peroid as we stop playing the game :P Like getting over an unhealthy addiction.

MarkPhilips.5169:

Sad but true.

There is no chance to spvp to be a great competitive pvp game without a really serious split between pve and www. And if anet splits completely these parts, anet should rework so many things, basically fused in the nature of this game, that the result would be really another game.

Too much effort, they push on pve and www and probably this is enough to mantain a large players base.

Personally, i moved on pve/www. Tpvp, without a serious rework, is dead for me.

^^

You would need such a huge split that pvp would be a different game. That is impossible judging from their interviews and things. I will keep an eye on the patches and maybe when the meta changes see if the game is fun. But I doubt any changes to numbers (small balance changes) are going to change how AI/spam dominated this game is.

Its a clusterkitten. Asuras existing in pvp are an example of why this is a pve game. Imagine in call of duty you could pick a little character who is really hard to see and so keeps killing you. It is fail to have such small characters in a twitch based game. Makes a mockery of the whole thing. Wont change because its a pve game.

evilapprentice.6379:

…They could always just split skills between the 2, like they’ve done for a bunch of abilities/mechanics/etc so far…

Splitting skills would have to be so severe there would be no link between the two. No way they will do that because its a pve game. And in a pve game they want their pve players to be able to jump into the mists and not just have a completely different system where you cant dodge for ages and damage is worse and spam is reduced.

It is just impossible to do.

This game isnt a competitive pvp game. Get over it. Either quit or accept it for what it is. A pve game.

My evidence? All the mechanics are based around pve. They cant nerf aoe. They cant nerf dodges. They cant nerf damage. Because this is all baked into the pve side of the game. The spammy nature of pvp cant be changed because it is an integral part of pve.

And that is the problem with all MMO’s. They are designed first and foremost to be pve games. So all the mechanics are suited to pve and dont translate well to pvp.

Another sign its a pve game is that people want “goals” and “progression” in their pvp. People who play proper competitive pvp games get this progression from competition. Anet are going to give you people new shinys to chase after…why? Because its not a proper pvp game.

So either accept the game as it is (a pve game with pvp side game) or quit. There is no point putting hours of time into a game which is flawed as a competitive game because it is designed fundamentally around pve.

Anet should listen to helseth and not the people on this forum. He is correct that if necro/thief/ranger are going to get nerfed then this must be accompanied by big nerfs to mesmer and ele damage. Or things will just go from bad to worse. Every class needs nerfing. Hellseth understands this. The forums dont and neither does anet.

And newbs dont realise how OP sword thief is too. They (rightly) moan about necro and ranger. But a sword thief does the most damage and yet you cant kill or focus it.

And Hellseth is right this game sucks. I spent hours and hours playing necro to become on of the best at it. Then anet make it such a noskill luck based system that all my work on necro is undermined and now anyone can play it at a top level.

All AI mechanics and builds should be deliberately nerfed to the point where they are worse than active builds, but where the casuals/pve ers can still enjoy it. Minions are fine in this regard. Nobody good ever thinks a minions necro is powerful. But the lower level players can enjoy playing it in pve and pvp.

I have moaned about this game for ages just because I feel disappointed to have invested time in a game which is not ever going to be competitive.

I have come to the realisation that we shouldn’t moan about these things because, when it is all decided, this game is an MMO. Not an FPS, not a MOBA, and not an RTS. At the end of the day, this must be remembered.

Sure they should never of even mentioned esports in the build up to the game. I am sure they know that now. But if you think this game is viable from a competitve stand point moving forward then you are deluded.

MMO’s are based around role playing. They are RPG games. And in every case PvP is just tacked on for some light entertainment. The combat problems that helseth talks about are ALL valid. But they will never change. The concept of high aoe and spam are interlinked with the PvE design of the game. They cannot change all the things that need to be changed. It just ins’t possible.

Like all MMO’s this as an rpg/pve game first. You have to accept that. If you want to play a competitive game then obviously dont play an MMO. There will always be huge problems which detract from the enjoyment of the game the higher in skill level you go.

Ele is just like all the other kitten in this game. One really lame and powerful aoe combo which pretty much can’t be dodged. No brain class like all the rest of them. Just hidden at the moment due to the BS spam from other classes.

Blackjack.5621:

we don´t need a META

We need teams with different strategies for example bunker and decapping vs teamfight comps, direct vs condi vs mixed etc

Problem is, that some classes are so overpowered that you build a whole team around them and this is what creates a meta.

Classes that are nearly unbeatable in 1v1 pushing sidepoints, Guardians overpowered for one year now, but aslong as it doesn´t hurt noone cares. Certain classes doing way too much pressure and revives without touching the downed guy. This is not healthy for the game.

It´s those overpowered things you build around and that is creating a meta.

We need more build diversity, but we don´t need ONE meta. It´s not fun to play nor to watch if everyone is following the same strategy because nothing else is on par.

No balanced game should have classes that are a must have to compete as a team.
I don´t even remember the last time I´ve seen a team without guardian.

Agreed. I think every class should be nerfed in some respects. But it won’t happen.

And yeh bunker guardian is very very very OP. Like, fighting a 4v4 when they have their guardian and you dont have yours = massive disadvantage. Everyone but arena net seem to understand this.

nerfing the guardian bunker wouldnt matter because ALL other classes would be getting nerfs too. It would just bring all the OP specs down. And bunker guardian is one of the most Op specs. If you dont think so then try playing and winning without one.

The old meta sucked too. Way too much passive condition cleanse (ele, guardian and ranger mainly) meant that necro couldnt really get conditions on anyone.

They had to give necro more conditions to overcome this. Passive condition removal spam needed condition spam to overload it.

I hope they nerf conditions AND condition removal to make it less spammy. That is the only thing I will return to this game for.

But lets be honest. Spam is an INTEGRAL part of PvE. Like it is what the whole pve combat and balance is based upon. So there is very very little chance they will reduce all this spam.

My prediction: They will nerf conditions from necro and not the cleanses from the other classes and necro will not be useful again.

Allie Murdock.8152:

Arganthium.5638:

In allocating resources to Esports, I think he means the fairly large focus on the PAX tournament (although he might have slightly exaggerated it).

As for fun, I think he just means balance, and, if you saw his post from last week about spam, and the post that was on the same line of thought that I put up recently about skills being used more tactically and strategically than they currently are.

Sure, except the PAX event is being mostly managed by our events, marketing and community teams. No resources are being taken away from development for PAX.

As for fun, we understand that balance isn’t in it’s ideal place. This is why we have a balance team that focuses completely on balance. Time is needed to balance, it can’t be done at the snap of a finger.

Balance takes time. Fine. But when you then release patches that have stupid unfun mechanics (fear/spirits/immunities/stuns/evasion) buffed to the sky then people hate the meta. If you werent aware that this meta would develop then you have bad testers. Most top players knew after 30 minutes with the dhuumfire patch that necro, spirirt ranger and sword thief were going to be a huge problem.

A good system would be to actually understand the implications of balance before you do it by having a good team procedure.

Your balance team is:

1, Always behind the curve in a way in which other developers of other games are not.
2, Then too slow to respond to issues when they arise.

And you are talking down to players saying “You dont understand how it works” or things to that effect. To alot of us this isnt just a game. It is a community. It is like a football team you support. You cant change supporting it because you are tied into it. We are tied into this game by time investment and by the relationships we have established whilst playing the game. So you might think we are an unproductive ignorant bunch of whiners and sensationalists. But we aren’t. We are just people who are tied into something which is sinking fast. GW2

felivear.1536:

Jon Peters said during the guildwars PvP stream on twitch (in chat) that the patch after PAX should expect some balance and then the one after that should be the BIG one…. man…how many times I’ve heard that the next one or the one after that is going to be the BIG patch

Well we know what that means. It means basically no changes for 1 more month. 6 months of the BS ele meta. Now 3 months confirmed of the BS spammy condi meta.

LOL. This game is worthless crap.

Imagine if the best specs didn’t consistently revolve around AI mechanics.

Imagine if they banned asuras so you could actually see anything which goes on in a battle.

Imagine if they reduced the spammy nature of the game by reducing damage, condition application, condition cleansing and evasion.

Imagine if they had people who can test the game…I knew after 30 seconds of playing with the dhuumfire patch that necro was just going to be OP and so was spirit ranger and sword thief.

Imagine if they gave variety to the game with new game modes.

Imagine if it didnt take them 1 year after release to add random map rotation which should be in the game at release.

Imagine if the whole community hasn’t quit already.

Imagine if they had the creativity and design skills to create a game not based on spam and repetitive actions.

Yeh, this game will never make it to being good for pvp. It is almost impossible. If they started moving in the right direction then at the current speed maybe 2016 it will be a good game? But they aren’t even moving in the right direction so…..the game is actually getting worse.

HPLT.7132:

Theplayboy.6417:

Its the constant updates too that screw everything up. All the queues and the matches and restart your client etc…. It’s absolutely miserable.

I wouldnt have a problem with that, if there would actually be some pvp related fixes but since release there was 1 single patch (dhuumfire nerf) outside the 2/4 weeks cycle which was pvp related and its annoying as hell not be able to play because arenanet wants to fix the amount of cows in divinity’s reach…

Previously every patch that did nothing was greeted with outroar by people on the forums. The forums exploded. This patch did nothing in a terrible meta and the forums are dead. Why? Because people dont care anymore. Which is sad. I will come back when they fix the meta. So I guess that is some time in 2014. Looks like everyone else has given up on this game too….for now.

Mesmer GS damage should be nerfed. So should ele damage. They are not seen as much in pvp as the other 6 classes due to the meta. The other builds like sword thief, necro, ranger, stun warrior, elixr r and shout guardian all need significant nerfs. But then mesmer and ele would be OP. Because they are not bad because they are bad. They are bad because the other stuff which strongly counters them is brokenly OP.

So they need to nerf all 8 classes to differing degrees and to remove the lameness from the game. Mesmer GS damage, ele burst combo damage, necro fear, necro conditions, engi conditions, engi elixr r, all spirits, ranger traits inc emphatic bond, voice of purity, mace stun, berserker stance, sword thief evasion.

It should ALL be nerfed (alot of it got buffed recently to make the game crap and lame). The net result would be ele and mesmer are very strong. So nerfs are needed but must be accompanied by a complete reduction of power level and spam across the board. Passive and traited condi removal, condi application = all nerfed. All the lame bs evasion = nerfed.

Will this happen? Honestly no. This game was better pre-june patch. About half the OP stuff came from that patch and from later attempts to fix that patch which were a disaster. Like they have no idea. They should just send the balance back to just before june and have another go.

tl;dr – aspects of the mesmer including greatsword damage need nerfs. When these nerfs are accompanied with nerfs to other classes then the game will be less about spam and lameness and mesmer will be in a great position.

Derps.7421:

Waffler.1257:

Please do this. Then I can kill all the bads on my team and laugh at them.

For the love of god yes.
I am tired of rank 1-10s in solo quene. WHY CANT YOU JUST DO HOTJOIN FOR A BIT AND LEARN YOUR CLASS!!!

Yeh cos hotjoin teaches you so much right? Honestly there is little difference between a rank 40 hotjoin hero and a r5 beginner.

I think they should remove the solo q leaderboard but let you see your rating in game. So you can work on personal progression and have fun that way.

Roe.3679:

As a Necro main (well before the 6/25 patch), I would be fine with Dhuumfire being completely removed. It’s not really a fun trait, it’s just spam and profit.

I think if they did replace it with Torment, but seriously reduced the damage Torment causes to stationary targets, it could be a good change. That way there is counterplay to a Necro’s conditions in that if you stop moving you are taking far less damage.

I dont play this game atm and wont till they fix it and haven’t really been reading the forums either.

However, dont forget how this necro buff came about. necro was not great pre patch. But it wasnt because necro sucked. It was because other classes had OP stuff. Mainly a necro couldnt load enough conditions onto a target to cope with the OP condition removal that is given to ele, guardian and ranger. You couldnt touch a ranger 1 on 1 because you only really had 3 conditions and all those disappeared to the PASSIVE and no skill emphatic bond before they can do anything. Otherwise you also had healing spring. Ele condi removal is also over the top with alot of synergy. And guardian shouts with the runes was absolutly ridicoulous condition removal. Espicially with removal on virute and renwed virtues elite. Again a necro couldnt touch a bunker guardian pre patch.

So what did they do? Instead of nerfing all this condition removal they mega buffed necro so you now win by just SPAMMING all your conditions to overwhelm these insane condition removals. That is terrible design and not fun.

So then what? Well they decided to buff loads of other condition removal like mesmer null field or berserker stance (to differing degrees) to match the necro. Now if they nerf conditions then conditions will be even worse than before the necro patch. And still based on spam. because condi removal is so strong. Especially condi removal which can be traited for and so does not effect the skills a player uses really.

Seriously, I suggest giving up on this game. I promise you they will continue their “create builds” approach. Which basically means making more and more stuff ridiculously OP and without counter play (i.e. berserker stance change and the necro changes). Instead they should be nerfing everything more or less. And there is a large difference. The change in balance between classes mite be the same by buffing or nerfing everything. But the game dynamics by making everything amazing and OP can only be lame.

So yeh. They now cannot remove dhumfire. It is all necros have. Necros have to spam to win. But if they remove it then they wont be able to spam as well and so they wont win. Literally there are about 30 skills and traits I can think of which need to be nerfed to reduce the spam and make the game fun. And also AI needs to be a pve mechanic or something which has a low power cap due to be easy to play (spirt spam rangers)

Spam, CC and the over abundance in AI.

Those are the things that made me quit this game.

I can’t see any of them being fixed seen as all these things have actually become worse since release. It must the direction anet want the game to go in. They obviously like the idea of spam/uncounterable mechanic (berserker stance, mark spam, bomb spam, etc), dying without controlling your character (due to insane cc like mace stun and fear chaining) and relying on ai to do everything (supply drop, spirit ranger).

They actually have buffed these aspects. There is more fear, more warrior stuns, more powerful AI and more spam THAN EVERY BEFORE.

So dont wait on a change. It will get worse not better imo.

And rather than nerf anything ever they instead just crazy buff things and make them uncounterable i-win buttons. Like warrior. Warrior having problem with condi spam? Hmm we could nerf condi spam and passive condi removals (emphatic bond is so op – or it would be when spam is reduced) or we could just add an uncounterable 10 second invincibility mode. Complete fail.

Quickfoot Katana.8642:

Why the hell do you create a thread pointing out to another thread? Mods delete this pointless topic please.

Because the meta is killing this game. I promise you that EVERYBODY, or close to everybody, hates it. The whole thing just sucks.

I take it back. The more I play this meta the more I hate it. Rangers are kittening op and so are necros. I am bored of spam wars. Spirit rangers are worse than necro and s/d thief. But all 3 suck balls and are dull and boring.

Poxxia.1547:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Stealth.9324:

I would take Xeph line and his circle any time over yours, Lord. Caused you know, he is way better player than you. And most of taking being competitive seriously will back up my line.

Yeh I suck ofc.

Although yesterday I had top accounts in the top 10 of the solo leaderboard with each having 25 or more games. When anyone else is good enough to do that let me know.

Argh … we don’t have to go down this road guys.

No we dont. But if someone uses the “you suck therefore what you say is wrong” argument then I am going to respond with FACTS to counter that.

Stealth.9324:

I would take Xeph line and his circle any time over yours, Lord. Caused you know, he is way better player than you. And most of taking being competitive seriously will back up my line.

Yeh I suck ofc.

Although yesterday I had top accounts in the top 10 of the solo leaderboard with each having 25 or more games. When anyone else is good enough to do that let me know.

DiogoSilva.7089:

When I first appeared on the leaderboard, I had 8-2 w/l, and was rank 61. After playing a lot more matches, I’m now rank 360 with 16-18, and about to drop even more.

If we look at the top leaderboard players, they are at the top with similar scores that I had in the beginning. 10-1, 9-1, 8-2, etc. But, I wonder, is that an accurate portrayal of their skills? How many of them will keep their ranking after playing twice the games, and how many will fall?

No it isn’t. Also if you look at the top players, when they play more and more games they are falling to around a 65-75% win rate. The 12-1 type record is unsustainable so they can only go down if they play.

So they wont play. I guarantee it. Therefore this should be taken as a loss of skill and their rating and rank should degrade much much sooner than it does currently. And they shouldnt regain their place when they play again

Xeph.4513:

Poxxia.1547:

Xeph.4513:

A lot of those “Known players” have accepted the shift in meta and have picked up new classes; the reason is the current meta is just not enjoyable to play for a various amount of reasons.

Can’t help asking: What is an enjoyable meta?
Imo the GC-burst was not enjoyable, nor were the unkillable , ever-evading classes. Nor is the current meta focused on conditions. Personally I have always been a support-minded person when it comes to gaming, and GC-burst and some exclusive classes access to it without real punishment really killed that part of the fun for me.
Is burst really a “better” meta? Genuinely interested in hearing your opinion and elaboration on the matter..

The fact is, although the GC Meta wasn’t the greatest, there was a lot of teamwork involved and supporting your team mates was very viable; being coordinated in team fight also mattered a lot

let me give you a few examples of this, as a Mesmer dealing with conditions was difficult and having lost sustain; for this reason I always had to coordinate with phantaram that I run in for his heals and move out, I would at times push forward to lower pressure on our guard or ele, until the re-sustained.
In the current meta that sort of play is no longer possible; the heavy condi meta means that you need to bring your own “personal” condition removal.
S/D thieves diving the backline, means that no matter how coordinated you are, you still can’t protect your backline, as he is free to do it as many times he likes.

If you notice most classes that are brought in, are classes that are able to duel very well in a 1v1 (S/D Thief, Spirit Ranger, Necro and Engineer), they are also classes that are very self sufficient, meaning they can hold their own with little support.

This doesn’t mean that teamwork is out of the window, but it does mean that you can be a lot less coordinated and still achieve great results, but fact is its a lot more boring to play then the old GC meta, because its mainly about spamming condi’s from afar.

it’s really hard to explain all of it in writing, if you want to discuss it further, I would be happy to get on voice com and do so.

The point is that is just your opinion. Which is obviously what the forums are for. My initial post is just my opinion.

The old meta sucked way worse. There were less viable classes. Then people did have success with 2 eles. Then you did need a mesmer (till BM came along) to cover back point. It was so boring to find a group and you HAD to have a mesmer, at least 1 ele and a guardian. Now you dont NEED anything. Which is good, and means nothing is that op.

Yes some builds need toning down, but not necro. Necro isnt OP at all. And most good necros agree with me. The people who think it is OP are people who played ele and mesmer and are used to those classes just facerolling everyone.

Mammoth.1975:

If someone has a higher rating than you, they’re higher than you on the leaderboard, end of story. No one is ‘taking up half the spots’. Essentially, the problem you’re having is that they might be afk, but they’re still better than you.

Yeh but they aren’t. Because people improve and the game moves on. So what you say is illogical. If someone doesnt play for a month then they are now alot worse. And if you play alot that month you will improve and be better. Yet you can’t overtake them. Ever.

Krayiss.4926:

People go on vacation for amonth so they shouldnt lose their rating thats silly. Thats why decay is set at about 2 months I think?

No because if they go on vacation for a month they wont be a top player when they come back. They position on the board should decay. If they are good enough then their rating will go back up when they get back and they can regain their place on merit again.

It will be 100x easier to move up too if afkers dont take up half the spots.

Sort it out please. It makes a mockery of the leaderboards.

People should permanently decay starting from around 5 days. When they play again they should kick in where they dropped to NOT be pumped straight back to their rating when they quit the game or took a break.

Not playing should be reflected as a decline in skill. And if the leaderboards are meant to reflect team and individual skill then they need to have such a decline.

This really is an important thing to fix. Leaderboards are good ways to have fun and try to progress yourself. Not being able to do this due to afkers is so lame.

Seriously, the logic and fairness here is against the current system. Please add significant leaderboard decay that rewards people who actually play the game.

Xeph.4513:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Xeph.4513:

Then I assume they should buff all the other classes to be on par with necro, instead of just bringing one class down, you want them to take 7 others up ? :/

Spirit ranger and s/d thief are already ahead of necro. A necro doesnt avoid everything you do and then when they are gonna die they disengage and come back full health. Mesmer and ele have crazy dps. Like crazy dps which is very hard if not impossible to avoid. Warrior have berserker stance and stun lock/100 blades which is basically 10 seconds of god mode and an 8 second combo which melts everyone. Engis can RES THEMSELVES (wtf?!?) and perma swiftness and vigor. And they have an adept trait which spams burn on people as well as other condis. Then you have guardian which has crazy good team utility and is the class you kinda of have to bring.

There is a reason the best team specs have 5 different classes. It is because balance isnt that bad. Necro isnt that good. If it gets nerfed then they must nerf all the stuff I listed above which is EVERY other class.

Alright lets make a few things clear mesmer and elementalist dps is high, but right now their kill potential is no where near being as potent as necro.
I could go into detail regarding the matter; but I think that the subject has already been saturated.
If you fail to see how strong necro is in the current meta, then I doubt anything I could say would change your mind.

The only thing keeping that burst in check is necros and s/d thief. You remove that and I dread to think about another 7 months of a mesmer/ele/guardian meta.

The thing is people EXPECT to be dominant on their mesmer and ele because they always have been dominant and overpowered. Now necro is viable people cry about it. I dont think it is because necro is OP. I think it is just better than it was. You can still kill a necro easily.

Alot of the known players became known because they played mesmer and ele. As they were the best classes for a long long time. So there is a bias from the known players towards expecting these classes to be dominant. Whilst nobody with legitamacy speaks up for necro or other “newer” classes.

Xeph.4513:

Then I assume they should buff all the other classes to be on par with necro, instead of just bringing one class down, you want them to take 7 others up ? :/

Spirit ranger and s/d thief are already ahead of necro. A necro doesnt avoid everything you do and then when they are gonna die they disengage and come back full health. Mesmer and ele have crazy dps. Like crazy dps which is very hard if not impossible to avoid. Warrior have berserker stance and stun lock/100 blades which is basically 10 seconds of god mode and an 8 second combo which melts everyone. Engis can RES THEMSELVES (wtf?!?) and perma swiftness and vigor. And they have an adept trait which spams burn on people as well as other condis. Then you have guardian which has crazy good team utility and is the class you kinda of have to bring.

There is a reason the best team specs have 5 different classes. It is because balance isnt that bad. Necro isnt that good. If it gets nerfed then they must nerf all the stuff I listed above which is EVERY other class.

Derps.7421:

2 ways to fix gw2s current meta.
1. Nerf the damage burning does.
2. Nerf the damage bleeding does and tone down how it stacks in intensity.
They way condition damage affects condis is way to high

Bleed sucks as it is dude.

Oblivion.8307:

I could attempt this on my second account, although I don’t think people would appreciate me purposefully losing my first 11 placement games.

LOL. Indeed ^^

I take it back. Please nerf necro and spirit rangers and s/d thieves. They all suck. The meta is boring. Just spam spam spam. Especially spirit rangers. kitten them

Former topic title was please dont nerf necros. I take it back. The spam is unbearable.

Allie Murdock.8152:

So, it will take a little time for Solo/Team Arena to normalize. Adding Solo Arena to the game is a huge step, and it no doubt has made a ripple in GW2 PvP history.

Just give it a little time. Solo Arena has only been out for 2 days.

So doomsday!

Yeh. People will get bored of it and team queue will flourish again. Then a happy medium will be reached. That is my prediction.