Guild Wars 2

0,4,0,4,6 – again can go vigor support and glamour line as you mention but feels more 1v1

There is nothing 1v1 oriented about Null Field, Portal and Vigorous Revelation. Those are quintessential team support traits/utilities and are very helpful in team fights.

Also, before I took vigorous revelation, I was using the scepter CD, which also buffs condition dmg. It was good, but I haven’t noticed much of a difference in playstyle outside being able to bait people with Confusing Images more often.

edit: He must be talking about the build I’m proposing. With mine, you get less damage but more support in the mid-fights.

There are certain items that can only be earned through PvP reward tracks, or that are guaranteed drops via the reward tracks while RNG drops through other paths, such as Unidentified Fossils. These can be leg-ups. Adding more rewards of this type would make things even worse.

Makes things worse for who??? lol

there should be nothing that can be earned through PvP that cannot be earned though PvE, and nothing that can be earned easier that way.

I’m really surprised that some people feel this way. Are you aware that there are many things in PvE that can be earned ONLY in PvE and easier in that format than in WvW or PvP? Do I need to list them?

Not every PvEer is a PvPer in waiting, that’s simply a myth.

This is true, but I’m speaking for the many PvE friends I have who would enjoy PvP if the rewards drew them in more. No one is trying to make PvE players into hardcore pvpers. That’s not the case, and won’t be the case. The point is that there is a large group of casual players that would participate in pvp if the rewards were better. That’s all I’m saying.

purecontact.1680:

Ohoni.6057:

NO UNIQUE PVP REWARDS.

Agreed.
No unique PvE rewards too btw.

I would like to feel free to play in PvE or PvP to get the reward I want.
I’m coerce to play a mode I don’t like to got reward I like.

I don’t enjoy sPvP but I need the glorious armor chest and shoulder to complete the skin of my guardian.

Result : I’m not happy with the game because I don’t play a mode I like and teamate blame me because I’m not doing the best I can.

MailMail.6534:

Let me remind you that PvP players didn’t start receiving legit rewards until last Wintersday 2013… Suggesting that PvP shouldn’t have unique rewards is ludicrous.

‘I didn’t get reward for more than a year then now other players won’t get one ! hihi’
Seriously, I read this reaction a lot and it is sad.

Even the rewards in both PvP & PvE & WvW and everyone will be fine.

I’m not saying certain players shouldn’t be rewarded. I’m saying how dare someone suggest PvPers not be rewarded when we’ve already earn that title. “Been There Done That”

skcamow.3527:

MailMail.6534:

snip

Yeah my problem with null field is that it’s too slow compared to the mantra, but if you can legitimately make it work as your sole cleanse source while gaining the other benefits discussed, more power to you. Don’t forget the mantra cleanses AoE (but doesn’t strip ofc).

You’re right. There’s obviously a lot of pros and cons for conditional removal, and I love that Mesmer has so many different sources of it. I’m a big fan of Null Field which is part of my personal bias. That being said, the biggest reason I took Null Field is because I’m running portal AND I’m already in the Inspiration line so I might as well take he glamour mastery to make it worth it.

Null really helps to take down a point with those pesky Ele/Guards with all those boons. They suck.

Speaking of that, how is it going with all those people who play with Shatter Conditions instead? 4/4/0/0/6 is probably the “go-to” Maim build I’m assuming. How does that match up against 0/4/0/4/6 or even 0/4/2/2/6?

What do you mean shared with WvW? That would be hard to do logistically. Let me remind you that PvP players didn’t start receiving legit rewards until last Wintersday 2013… Suggesting that PvP shouldn’t have unique rewards is ludicrous. Now, if you think WvW should have unique rewards, then again, that’s another thread.

I’m not a wvwer, but I do think it takes skill. Zerging is not hard to do, but coordination of players is. No one should know this better than a pvper. I don’t think WvW should receive any haterade from us PvPers.

skcamow.3527:

MailMail.6534:

Energy sigil is nice, but vigorous revelation helps the team and gives me an open slot to have sigil of doom and sigil of earth on scepter/torch.

Just wanted to mention I love the idea of running a more selfish (but not so much!) 4 in inspiration (versus 4 in domination) with this build and vigorous revelation/glamour mastery. Very unique idea to spread AoE vigor and also still have boon strip with null field on reduced recharge (and portal). Problem always with inspiration is not taking mender’s purity. While null field is good, it will only get you so far in serious fights. You could always use a cleanse sigil to help with conditions if needed.

Yes. I feel like when playing Dps Mesmer, you don’t have many options to go into Inspiration, but condition builds definitely have more room to work with traits, and I find the glamour mastery (port/Null) and vigorous revelation to be amazing support for my team. Null Field tends to be a game-changer in team fights. Especially long-winded ones.

I haven’t been in many situations where I needed more than 1 condi clear except in bunker Mantra builds. Besides, 2 conditions removed every 20 seconds versus 5 removed AOE (plus boon stripping) every 32 seconds isn’t a horrible trade-off for Mender’s.

While I think 0/4/0/4/6 is the best set up for Maim, I really implore more discussion about how effective other set ups are.

edit: again, the biggest weakness of Maim is the fact that your only two conditions are Confusion/Torment. This isn’t counting the random bleeds you get from clones. I’d be hard pressed to really change my sigils, because they help to keep a variety of conditions on my enemy, which makes it harder to cleanse the nasty ones.

Energy sigil is nice, but vigorous revelation helps the team and gives me an open slot to have sigil of doom and sigil of earth on scepter/torch. This adds more conditions onto my target so that it’s harder to cleanse the crucial torment/confusion, which is the biggest weakness of MtD.

I’m going to try it with DD soon and see how it works. You’re right, whether the shatter hits or not, you’re always guaranteed condition pressure, which is nice.

Ohoni.6057:

NO UNIQUE PVP REWARDS.

To me, the sPvP system was in its ideal state when the game launched. It did not interact in any way with the rest of the game, and that was perfect. It’s since been made worse and worse, making it so that in some ways, those who PvP regularly can get a leg up on PvE players due to the different reward structure. If you enjoy PvP, that’s great, go ahead and PvP, but stop trying to lure PvE players over to the dark side with bribery, we don’t want to go.

I say this with as much tact as possible (which I guess isn’t much), but you are a lunatic for this statement. PvP players will NEVER get a leg up on PvErs. Look at the last 2 years. Case closed.

I implore you to read this thread and understand the math given on the difference between dungeon running and dungeon reward tracks. How is this a leg up on PvErs? Reward tracks in their current state rewards those few PvErs who max out dungeon runs then come over to PvP to get more non-diminishing returns on dungeon rewards.

A lot of PvErs enjoy the idea of PvPing, but the implementation is what’s not keeping them there. Also, the pvp community is notorious for being toxic. That also doesn’t help. To get back on track, PvErs would stay in PvP if the rewards were worth it to them. That’s simply a fact.

Jinx.7258:

MailMail.6534:

Yes, to say that PvErs don’t play PvP at all is ludicrous. There are cross over players. And like the above poster said, there was an OBVIOUS influx of PvErs when the Balthazar back piece came out. I remember my friends were very happy, because the poor match making put us against these same PvErs. That was back when I was on the leader board. lol At the same token, it was frustrating having them on my team…but that’s what happens when the pvp population is so small.

Ppl crossing game modes for 2 days doesnt change anything. I dont enjoy any game’s pve section. Yet, I do it coz i have to – gear dependable games, i want legendaries in this one, guild makes me have different gear/weapons + sigils/runes + bunch of other stuff we need for different activities.

Outside of the Living Story updates once every two weeks (it’s GREAT this year), I’m also a pvp purist. This is besides the point, and I think your argument belongs in another thread. This thread here is about bringing PvE players into the PvP format and keeping them here.

Yes, to say that PvErs don’t play PvP at all is ludicrous. There are cross over players. And like the above poster said, there was an OBVIOUS influx of PvErs when the Balthazar back piece came out. I remember my friends were very happy, because the poor match making put us against these same PvErs. That was back when I was on the leader board. lol At the same token, it was frustrating having them on my team…but that’s what happens when the pvp population is so small.

As the thread title suggests, ANET knows how to bring PvErs into PvP. The issue is keeping them invested and not allowing burnout to occur far quicker than what is normal.

I know some people hate RNG, but I like the idea that Wolfey gives. Adding unique miniatures and toys inside of reward track boxes would also give people an incentive to play different reward tracks multiple times. However, Lyssa doesn’t bless everyone with luck. I can see frustration causing some raging…

I also LOVE the idea of giving us new emotes via PvP tracks!! A /glorious emote would have to be something outrageously flamboyant and righteous. lol

These are some great ideas. The first page is updated.

Thanks Ryvorn for that insight and unique perspective! One of the suggestions I originally brought up was an increase in tomes from the region tracks. Making PvPing an alternative to map-completion and leveling alternates would bring in a lot of people.

Since devs have entered this topic, it has grown in discussion. I’ll be updating the original post to reflect some more ideas on how to possibly improve the reward system and bring PvErs into PvP. Keeping it neat and tidy only helps to communicate more clearly with the devs.

messiah.1908:

i dont know guys
after testing all variation build i still think the 0,4,2,2,6 is much better as clone will die before explosion so the DD trait is valuable so stack conditions and also helps is bait your enemy to use cleanse early
the 0,4,0,4,6 build just offer 200 more condi dmg and cd on scepter which is only 1 sec on block which is the most important but you loosing bleed, vulnerability and weakness
and maybe the 4,4,0,0,6 with cripple and boon stripper but make you to use mantra for cleanse

Interesting. I’ve been going into Inspiration not for the Mender’s but for Glamour Mastery. Portal on a 72s CD is insanely good. Null Field is all the condi clear I need and serves dual purposes.

I was using the Scepter CD for the extra 2 seconds on block, but I’ve since switched to Vigorous Revelation. It gives me near 100% vigor upkeep, which helps me to constantly have clones out via dodging. The constant shattering keeps my team invigorated as well.

I’m sure DD is effective for when your clones are killed. However, this hasn’t really been a problem with me due to the toughness in the build. They’re still paper weights, but these clones definitely can take an additional hit more than zerker clones. Moreover, I usually shatter in melee range during team fights. I stay bit more ranged in 1v1s and 2v2s.

Yay!! Goodluck, Miku! I’ve begun saying “maimed” instead of “rekt” after demolishing people.

Joining teams should only be in custom arenas. The “regular” servers where people are randomly placed shouldn’t even have the option.

Some interesting things being brought up. Thanks everyone for being constructive.

All things being considered, I think pvp has definitely been moving in a positive direction, so I’m optimistic for more improvements ahead.

Dondagora.9645:

MailMail.6534:

Boom! I think Swish just discovered the new and improved “Furious Interruption” grandmaster trait!!

On the note of Furious Interruption, they need to buff this a bit. Maybe reduce the ICD to 5 seconds so you have, at most, a 60% uptime on it? Or just something more useful than 3 seconds of Quickness or more on demand than a 15 second ICD. Maybe make it group quickness[5 people within 360-600 radius]? Because right now, this is just weak, even before the quickness nerf.

Nope, it needs to be exactly what Swish described: causing a 25% chance of interrupting the enemy’s attack when you land a critical hit with an internal cooldown of 15 seconds.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Deified.7520:

You hit on the main point that we can’t make rewards tracks simply better than PvE farming. They are there as an alternative. Players can go between PvP and PvE and not feel like one section of the game is worth less of their time.

Except… most PvErs think PvP is worth less of their time… This is the problem to begin with. Farming/grinding is easier. Skillful gameplay should be better rewarded, because only then will people think it’s worth going for. It’s a fine balance. I understand how hard it must be.

Thanks Fluxit for being a trail blazer and helping to maim the meta!

Boom! I think Swish just discovered the new and improved “Furious Interruption” grandmaster trait!!

Decrypter.1785:

Seriously you care more about silly reward tracks than game fixes lol ? fix 4v5 give proper in game rankings/ladder , then add fluff , thanx crypt

Thanks for assuming what my priorities are. There are fixes that need to be made across the board. This is one of them. This is not fluff in the least bit…

What a lot of my fellow pvp purists fail to understand is that anet has a better incentive to fix pvp problems when a larger player base actually plays the format. In other words, the more cross over you have between PvE (where their money comes from) and PvP, the more likely you are to see overall positive changes to PvP.

Anet works hard to make positive changes. Just not at the velocity we’d like them to. Getting more people to actually play PvP can only lead to more positive changes.

Thanks!

You’re obviously right! When the Maguuma Jungle Region track came out, people were very confused and didn’t even know it was anything different. I think one issue was the name. The actual name “Dry Top Region Track” would have been better since Dry Top is now part of the popular vernacular in gw2.

I know all pvp-oriented players know about the reward tracks, but the rest of the community should be notified someway. For those tracks that are released based on the living story, you could simply add it to the story journal.

It would be much harder to “advertise” pvp-exclusive tracks however. Then again, you’d think people would notice new armor in their lockers. I surely do!

I just wish they’d utilize the reward tracks more often. It’s a great system that’s maimed by lack of variety. Most pvpers already have all the dungeon armor… so we need other goals that would keep us interested.

The same goes for PvErs. I bet you if they added a track that had BL tickets or keys, you’d get a lot more pvpers. Or like I say originally, add more EXCLUSIVE items to the reward tracks. i.e. the glorious armor is a great trend that I hope they continue. However, we shouldn’t have to wait for another pvp tournament just for them to release a pvp-exclusive armor….

Hopefully your curiosity and competitive edge will kick in and allow you to try some other potentially more effective builds as well. However, since the OP specifically asked for and prefers the style of phantasms, I think we should focus on making that work for him.

A long time ago way back when CS was bugged, I coined a build called “Dazzling Blades” among my friends. It’s essentially a lockdown phantasm build. Take a look here:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAscRnsISNa2oGmpB3aG50YQ1Yk+gCCo0jsS4A-TZBFwACOCA12fo9DAoaZAAnCAA

I sometimes switch out blink for MoR or Arcane Thievery. Spend most of your time on GS ranging from a safe distance. If you’re mid-range, spam your sword 4 to proc CS, then let your iSwordsman hit like a truck with that ~80% crit chance. I would only shatter if you had no phantasms alive.

It’s probably the highest risk phantasm build you could play?

On the condition side of things, check out the build in my signature. It’s quite the hybrid of phantasms, clone death and signets. Really unique way to play phantasms and decently effective. It does take a bit of practice to know when to use your signets as they all serve important dual purposes.

Swish, you left out the part where Lockdown can also “Focus on Supporting through utilities and weapon skills!”

While you demonstrate well that lockdown takes more management, you over exaggerate the actual thought process that goes into it. Ideally, you only need to answer two of those questions at most before the game is in your favor. Once you lock someone down it SHOULD be over for that person.

edit – personally, that’s the shining difference for me. With shatter, I can burst someone, but they have a high chance of recovery even if I do everything right. When I play on my lockdown, if I lock you down you might as well get a drink a water while you wait for your impending respawn.

keenlam.4753:

Nice vid, Miku.
Also nice to see our mesmer community come together and give tips for OP to improve his skills.

Us Mesmer fanatics aren’t so bad!!

Oh yikes, I don’t mean to offend you in the least bit!

As Pyro said, it is not like power shatter where one or two bursts does the trick. Maim is a slow drain on the opponent, but you need to keep the stacks up in order for it to drain the opponent quicker.

No need to coordinate. Your goal is to wear the target(s) down, not wait for your teammates to do it. You’re the condi spec, so leave the bursting to the dps players. The more torment/confusion pressure you apply with high velocity, the more likely you’re to make your target panic…which is where the true strength in a Maim build lies…

Basically what everyone else said. With more practice, you should see even better results with your build. I’ll be looking forward to your next video.

Helseth takes a hit

The reason he didn’t specifically melt people is because 80% of his Scepter 2 blocks were wasted. You need to be sure to use it when you know you’re going to be hit.

Other than that, very nice video!! gj.

It’s great in all formats.

Good for rezzing teammates in PvE open world content.

Zyxith.9328:

What -exactly- are my options sticking to those 3 weapons? What can they -do- for me and anyone have any build options, stats to focus on, can I still use my ascended celestial trinkets? Thank you MailMail for some info, although know sure what PU, DD or EI mean.
.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNArfWlknpRtlqxVNcrNSrhY6U3OhyrZJZgCA-TZQaAAQZAA

Refer to my previous post on how to play it. It’s quite simple. Like I said, for Silverwastes, I use Sword/Torch+Staff using a very similar set up.

I can name two other condition builds that are very effective in solo q and is workable in team q with an organized team:
1. Signet Clone Death (see the build in my signature)
2. Maim the Disllusioned

What I’ve been using to maim the Mesmer meta:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNArfWlknpRtlqxWNcrNCuBdyUUDU/jocySGgfB-TZxCwAAOEAKeAAU3fYbZAJnBAA

When not in an organized team, you can switch out portal for Feedback, and watch Rangers/Warriors/Thieves/Engis stupidly smash their keys and kill themselves from reflect/confusion/torment. I usually keep minimum 12 stacks of torment on an enemy even after they cleanse, because you dish out Scepter 2 every 6 seconds.

The only weaknesses I’ve come across have been fresh air eles with a lot of condition clear. A good thief should theoretically be able to beat this as well, but I guess I’ve faced a lot of baddies lately. Other Mesmers are an issue. It literally rips through most other enemies though.

Interrupt for life.

I’ve used very interesting colors with my Mesmers. I’m a fan of yellows, golds and reds.

My Dry Top Sylvari is actually brown, yellow and brick-red.

You gotta be adventurous! Don’t stick with just purple. That’s easy and lazy.

you only need the shoulder piece. Nothing more nothing less. Butterflies for life.

Open world content eh?
1) Buy yourself a set of zerker gear.
2) Go with 4/0/6/0/4. Torch, PU, DD, IE etc
3) Shatter when on your scepter/torch and let your iWarlock kill stuff on Staff with all the bounces.

You should be fine.

Welcome new members!! Hope to see you repping. I’m always down for chit chatting.

I’ve actually been using zerker PU in the latest PvE living story content, but that’s Sword/Torch+Staff… haha

It’d still be very helpful if you gave us some idea of what types of content you’d be playing. Us assuming your playing habits is probably the cause for contention and confusion in the first place.

I haven’t done any tpvp, so I can’t really gauge how amazing it is. I will say that I’ve been dominating yolo q, and really upsetting a lot of people with the 12+ stacks of torment on them.

Dondagora and I dueled some the other night. He was using torch, which is GREAT for dueling and survivability as well when traited. I’m currently using pistol with traited glamours for the constant confusion/bleed pressure as well as torment.

Basically, call the paramedics, because we’ve been maiming players for days now.

Fay.2357:

MailMail.6534:

I hope I’m not the first to tell you this pyro, but I can’t point out many times where I thought you were helpful to any discussion you have partaken in. The language you use in your posts is quite counter-productive to open-dialogue. It doesn’t bother me, but I know it bothers others, so it’s worth noting here.

Hopefully it’s obvious to the original poster that DPS is leaps and bounds more effective than condition builds in PvE!! The weapon set you want is specifically condition-based, but NiceNikeShoe gives a good suggestion. That being said, there are ways to overcompensate for such by adding lots of utility and proper traiting. I’ll reiterate, if you’re playing with someone who would rather 4-man a dungeon instead of playing with your condition build, then you probably don’t wanna play with that person in the first place either.

I don’t try to be nice and coddly with my posts. I speak accurately and bluntly

Well this is an issue when your “bluntness” isn’t exactly 100% accurate to begin with. As the above poster alluded, you have 0 tact. Again, I have tough skin; I’m not bothered by such, but the problem is that some of your posts where you unilaterally declare something to be “fact” or “untrue” have little merit. lol

There are times where a condition build in PvE isn’t completely useless. There may not be many of them, and of course there are always better alternatives, but I’m assuming the OP would like to make scepter/torch+Staff work in PvE. Instead of shutting down discussion, we should help him figure out different ways to make it semi-workable in different PvE situations.

@OP What types of PvE content will you be using your Mesmer for? Casual dungeon runs with guildies? PUGs? Speed dungeon runs? Living Story updates? Fractals? Some of these sub-formats would seriously be a hindrance to the group with your weapon set, but some of them you can make work. As Alasteir says, you could make it work with the new content.

Also, it wouldn’t be so far-fetched to use a shatter/phantasm hybrid build with this weapon set but have it be zerker. Shatter on scepter/torch and let your iWarlock destroy with his attack. Maybe trait for some glamours for utility. Just brainstorming here.

I hope I’m not the first to tell you this pyro, but I can’t point out many times where I thought you were helpful to any discussion you have partaken in. The language you use in your posts is quite counter-productive to open-dialogue. It doesn’t bother me, but I know it bothers others, so it’s worth noting here.

Hopefully it’s obvious to the original poster that DPS is leaps and bounds more effective than condition builds in PvE!! The weapon set you want is specifically condition-based, but NiceNikeShoe gives a good suggestion. That being said, there are ways to overcompensate for such by adding lots of utility and proper traiting. I’ll reiterate, if you’re playing with someone who would rather 4-man a dungeon instead of playing with your condition build, then you probably don’t wanna play with that person in the first place either.

Yes, with the new Sinister stat combo, it is possible to be effective in PvE.

Zerker will always be a bit better, but this is the next best thing for you. Carrion would work too. I mean, when it comes to PvE, it’s not that hard to play whatever you like unless you’re playing with some elitist kittens… Besides, “elitist people in PvE” is an oxymoron…

I’ll be starting the LS tomorrow, and will be on most of the day, so I’m down!! I hear from WoodenPotatoes that it’s pretty legit!

I think that’s a great idea, Copestetic.

I’m loving my 0/4/0/4/6 build with Null/Feedback every 32 seconds. The scepter 2 every 6 seconds is so NASTY so RUDE!

Nubu.6148:

Fay.2357:

StickerHappy.8052:

xDudisx.5914:

Nerfing zerker shatter build, would make all the other builds more appealing. Solving 2 problems with 1 fix.

LEARN TO PLAY

Seconded.

/sign

/sign

This would definitely make hyrbid builds for Mesmer more appealing since they’re SO hard to actually pull off.

The builds I can think off right off the bat are condi shatter and Phantasm clone death. Maybe I’ll take a look at the builds you suggested later tonight.