Guild Wars 2

evilapprentice.6379:

Asmodean.5820:

Gabi.5264:

Seriously, 19k in 7 hits and you complain about that?
You are seriously complaining about a skill that does 2715 damage per hit.

Please tell me this is not true.

I know it must be surprising for a thief but…for some professions this is a high number especially because when you mash button x it doesn’t respond anymore because gasp it is on a coodlown!!!

And Gasp you have 2 entire weapon sets (or 4 attunements, or as many kits as you want to bring) of CD’s to use! Hitting DD 4 times is the equivalent of using every single CD on both weapon sets!

This is honestly the saddest thief complaint I’ve seen. The backstab stuff I can understand, though I disagree with. Then the condition spec crying started, and I just laughed. This, however, is the worst I’ve seen – complaining about an easily dodged ability from a visible glass cannon spec’d thief. DD is hilariously easy to dodge due to travel time (just ask anyone who’s ever run away from a thief with enough endurance to dodge) – you sat there and ate DD after DD from an obvious glass cannon (while being fairly squishy yourself), and rather than examine what happened, how it could be prevented (extremely easily, as I’ve pointed out), and adjusting your playstyle, people come to the boards to QQ, and similar people who cry for nerfs before learning how to play hear the clarion call and join in.

I too, have infinite endurance. Everything is balanced because I can always ‘just dodge it’. I mean, this was only 4 dancing daggers. If you can’t dodge 4 times in 5 seconds, you deserve to lose. Everyone knows you should always save all your endurance to dodge dancing dagger. Once you dodge the first 4, you will be fine, because you can regen enough endurance to dodge again before the thief will regen enough initiative to dancing dagger again.

One of the above sentences is true.

Asmodean.5820:

Gabi.5264:

Seriously, 19k in 7 hits and you complain about that?
You are seriously complaining about a skill that does 2715 damage per hit.

Please tell me this is not true.

I know it must be surprising for a thief but…for some professions this is a high number especially because when you mash button x it doesn’t respond anymore because gasp it is on a coodlown!!!

Haha yeah I laughed at that one. I can do that kind of aoe dd on a necro once every 40 seconds, if I channel for 3 seconds uninterrupted.

Aoi Ikazuchi.8420:

“It’s a necromancer! Quick, kill it!”

This has been posted a couple times which is odd. Do your teams really leave necros to free cast?

Plague I understand that is a barrier for a lot of people, but I did mention some other options there for those who find that kind of thing difficult.

Fair enough, I apologise

The point I was failing to get across is that there’s nothing tangible to be gained either way.

Glory is nothing too. Unless you like playing dress ups. 5v5 is just more fun. That’s what I get from it anyway.

Bleed thief necrosis necro epidemic team wipe.

Sorry I’m too e-awesome.

Get out of 8v8 and play some 5v5. Things get much more manageable.

People are too intimidated by it I think, and there’s really no reason to be. Free tourneys aren’t that competitive. Most of the time you face pugs. Although there’s still a good portion of the time when you’ll face a guild, they’re almost never top guilds or main teams. When they are, they’re usually running crazy comps and/or getting experience on different classes. Due to all that, I can only think of one guild who regularly do free tourneys that I haven’t beaten with a pug at some point.

Get good at bunker guardian and run to mid every game, you’ll carry most random pugs to a win. Even if you lose, the better you get at it, the more likely you are to be noticed and headhunted by teams, and then you can play what you like as long as you can play the role they recruited you for when needed.

If you don’t wanna bunker (or like me, are terrible at it), get yourself a voice server or skype, 4 random strangers, watch some streams to understand the basic strategies on each map, and that will carry you to quite a few wins too.

Also, don’t be a dick. Yesterday I was pugging and met a nice guy, was playing with a few friends later and invited him as we had a spot, won a couple gold boxes. He was rank 9. Rank doesn’t equal skill, but rank 9 doesn’t indicate a whole lot of experience either. Nonetheless we beat a decent guild on map 3 in one run. When pugging, keep track of people who you get along with who you think can handle a few losses in order to learn from them. Shoot them a friend request and play some games.

You’ll lose a few while you’re getting the hang of it of course, but it costs you nothing, so what’s the big deal?

Can’t stand 8v8, refuse to play it now, but I agree with the rationale for its existence. Just go pug some 5v5. You face an organised team and lose, so what? What did you invest? 15 minutes? Personally I appreciate every chance I get to face good players.

I drop it under/behind plenty of breakables but I don’t want it to blow up the object until something else triggers it. If I want to kill objects, I press 1. Or `.

GW1 maybe. Same as Sonnet here, been playing pvp mmos for 10-15 years, and GW 1+2 have had the best graphical pvp I’ve played so far.

digiowl.9620:

Huh? Not sure i see the “problem” with NB0008 as right now going into DS heavily limits my situational awareness. This while going into any other transform retains this info.

As for NB0081, when marks do not trigger on “objects” it severly limits the usability of staff in various events and encounters.

As for fixed bugs, feel free to report them in the thread.

NB0008 is clearly intended. You don’t like it, fine, ask for changes. Don’t try to pass it off as a bug. They wrote the kitten game they know whether or not it’s intended. Real feedback. Likewise NB0081. On top of that, if they made marks trigger on objects, the staff would lose a ton of flexibility.

Haha that’s awesome

Qspec after never having had it happen to me, and almost all my builds running 10+ in death magic, I went out of my way to test it. It doesn’t revive you. And that kind of bullkitten doesn’t help our case at all. Nor do things like NB0008, or 75% of NB0081. It’s like some people on this forum have never heard the story of the boy who cried wolf. Or they just think they can get away with anything.

The bug list needs a hard cull. A few of the things on there are obviously features, a few were never even bugged, a few have been fixed, a few are beneficial, and of the few remaining, most are hardly gamebreaking. I want the bugs fixed as much as anyone, but the whining inaccurate feedback we give doesn’t help that happen any faster.

Actually, that’s an interesting point Marcus. I got into a 1v1 with a thief at treb in 8v8 the other day while playing my ranger. Played well, dodged/evaded everything, kept up the pressure while he was in stealth etc, while he just spammed restealths and dodged nothing at all. I was literally 100% the entire fight, then I ran out of energy and evades right before he went down. Boom, I’m at 3k as he goes down. Had to run around the corner and wait for heal cooldown before I could stomp. That’s a pretty forgiving class. You can play like absolute kitten and still kill someone. They’re not really a problem in 5v5 though, so maybe play some 5v5.

Weapon X.5163:

@Mammoth, Or you invite some of these tools to your 3 man group to form 5 and then they quit after you lose once. Just because there are people looking to join groups, doesnt mean they belong in them.

So we should make it easier for them to win?

Geomancy gives me 4.7k worth of bleeding every 10s. Then I cast epidemic.

You’re having bad luck Braxxus. We haven’t got our kitten together for the last week or so, and even when we do the paid queue is frustrating out of peak times, so I’ve been pugging heaps. Met lots of cool people. Wish you luck anyway, good to hear you’re solving the problem yourself.

sorrow.2364:

stof.9341:

You could do a blind stomp. You got Well of Darkness that can work for that.

Blindness stomp is the most uneffective stomp around. Well of darkness pulses 1 time per second, once you missed the first downed autoattack, you can still prevent stomping.

Mammoth.1975:

You can cancel lich for 30s+ stability.

Well, it doesn’t look like an efficient idea wasting your elite on a 180s cooldown and your only decent damage source in order to get one stomp, don’t you think?

I think you can do a lot more with 30s of stability than one stomp. Lich>cancel is potentially our strongest elite, despite the fact that it can be stripped.

You can cancel lich for 30s+ stability.

Wow there are a lot of players on this forum who don’t have teams. I wonder what would happen if they started talking to each other.

WoWs endgame was get 9-39 of your buddies, control aggro, and don’t stand in the bad. The rest was gearchecks. I dunno why people even mention it like it’s a thing. What was that first boss in cata? Perfect example.

In a regular seed 4 plays 5. It’s no different, just that 2/5 gets an easier match than they usually would in round 2. BTW, I don’t particularly care if pugs can win or not. I just think that you need to throw a bone to teams who aren’t the greatest. Honestly, if you’re losing because you’re pugging, there’s a solution in place already.

You wouldn’t have the best teams facing each other, it’s a standard seed but with the bottom two teams removed and matched against each other (which possibly gives the second rated team a better run at the final, but they’ll usually make it there anyway with the field as diverse as it is in terms of skill). People who pug a lot are going to end up in those bottom two teams a lot, while people who only play with a regular team won’t. Glicko would be fine too, although obviously it’s gonna result in longer queues.

We wouldn’t have been smashing 5 to 1 odds without our magus. If you’re gonna be a one trick pony it might as well be the targetting system for a thermonuclear device, right?

Maybe some kind of seeding based on teams average tournament win percentage. Make free tournaments a bit odd, like 1v6, 3v4, 2v5, 7v8. You’ve got a decent shot at some kind of chest no matter how bad you are that way.

If some kind of matchmaking is implemented, it needs to be hidden, or people are going to game it, just like every other matchmaking system ever.

Rank – how many hours you have zerged around in a pack in 8v8.

Here, if you want to bomb, try this:
http://www.gw2build.com/builds/simulator.php#1.5.7.2.0.0.30.30.0.1.0.125.0.0.0.9.9.29.0.0.0.317.322.0.0.0.0.348.0.0.0.0.0.0.30.0.10.0

Mark of blood, dodge in for mark of evasion, weapon swap for sigil of geomancy, grasping dead, epidemic. Something like 12k bleeding on your epidemic target, 18k+ on anyone standing close enough. Takes about 3 seconds to do, you don’t end up dead, and you can do it every 12 seconds, just swap the order of grasping dead and mark of blood every second time.

What classes are those? I play a necro and I have to be seriously outplayed to lose to anything but a ranger, so it can’t be either of those.

It’s probably good for reviving guards. You need enough defense/control to be able to afford to stay in the radius while you’re both probably fairly low health and obviously targeted. Mark of evasion is really strong though, so I’d have to be going quite a few points into blood before I considered it, since it’s also competing with ritual mastery.

Well of blood scales so well I can’t help wondering if it’s bugged. As for the others, not really. The damage on well of suffering might.

3 necros and 2 mesmers. Really.

Wolfend.5287:

@ op, you have to understand: there is a huge divide between casual pve — playing while sipping tea/texting — and pvping with a team that “can’t afford” a whipe.

I agree, l’d rather pve be as challenging/engaging as pvp, but that seems very unlikely as it does affect ArenaNet’s bottom line. Were the AI turned up several degrees, and reaction time sped up by two, most pvers wouldn’t make it past the starter area before rage-quitting. Rage-quitting was the scourge of grouping in GW1, seems to have returned for gw2; pvers do not want a challenge, as a whole, they desire the path of least resistance.

Again, you can tune content for characters, rather than characters for content.

chasingfuries.9635:

Mammoth.1975:

It is what it is. If you can’t beat the content, you don’t have to get better, you just go gear up more and come back to it. Time making up for skill. And yes, I’m afraid that favours those who have less to do in their real lives.

thats a really narrow minded way to look at it and while it may be true for SOME, there’s other reasons for liking/wanting endgame character progression besides being a bad player that needs more stats because they lack skill, and those other reasons have been voiced repeatedly in threads ive seen you post in, but you still seem to be completely making yourself blind to everything except your opinion so…

and so having lots of free time to spend on a game = being a no-life jobless basement dweller? thats some logic right there.

Well feel free to point out where I’m wrong here.

1. You get better gear.
2. The bosses get better stats.
3. The gear hasn’t improved you, it’s kept you on par. Change is only cosmetic.

1. You go back to an old instance.
2. You clear it with ease because you outgear it.
3. Outgearing content makes it trivial.

Which means the gear grind is nothing but an artificial way of saying – ‘you can’t do this instance until you’ve done that one enough times to get the gear you need’.

Nor have you even tried to argue with any of those points. Only MrsAngelD did. Your posts don’t seem to be contributing very much in fact.

You’re not responding anyway. I’ve outlined my key points three times, you haven’t disagreed with any of them. Well, you said you did, but then you changed your mind or something.

chasingfuries.9635:

chat is screwing up so idk if this is gonna double post or somethin.. but anyways..

“Stupid, but true. Games with gear progression are all about overcoming a lack of skill by spending more time playing. It’s all about outgearing content and outgearing players. Otherwise, it serves no purpose aside from dictating the order in which you have to do things, and the average number of times you have to do thing x before you can do thing y.”

personally i disagree with it being a way to “overcome a lack of skill”. thats an absent minded assumption to throw at gear grinders as a whole and shows that you havent comprehended anything anyone has tried to say in other threads about why they like gear grinds and progression at endgame.
and secondly the thing i thought was stupid was you labeling them as jobless no lives. again, mindless assumption. most of the really super hardcore grinders ive known are adults with successful jobs, and what i think is that people that work hard and are very focused in mmos are just that, hard working and focused people, meaning in rl too in their jobs etc. not ALL of course, but ive found it to be true for almost everyone like that ive met

It is what it is. If you can’t beat the content, you don’t have to get better, you just go gear up more and come back to it. Time making up for skill. And yes, I’m afraid that favours those who have less to do in their real lives.

IndigoSundown.5419:

GW2 may be the game that is not about grind. However, if that is what the majority of its players want, why does almost no one on my server do the Malchor’s Leap Lyssa Event, instead choosing to do the easy events in Cursed Shore over and over? The Risen Priestess has been in position for almost two weeks now.

My hypothesis is that they are after rewards in the form of Karma, drops and gold, and that the Lyssa event is too long and difficult for not much return. Maybe my server is an anomaly. If so, please state which server(s) have control of the Lyssa shrine. I’d like to get the skill challenge done so I can complete the zone.

You’re confusing optional with mandatory. If you had to do lyssa to get the gear to do the easy events in cursed shore, that would be a problem.

Darmikau.9413:

Mammoth.1975:

It doesn’t help, it only hurts, why do it. That’s the general point. Your opinion is that it has a negligible effect, fine, I don’t share it, so back it up.

But it does help – it preserves PvE gameplay by preventing highly impactful PvP-oriented changes from fundamentally altering how PvE plays. There’s these things called marginal benefits and marginal costs. Even if “burden of skill knowledge when entering PvP” was a substantial cost, which it’s not, the marginal benefit received from splitting PvP and PvE is many times greater.

I’ve already back my points up in two separate posts and yet you still haven’t produced even a single example of remotely applicable evidence that a PvE/PvP split is bad. Please quit wasting my time.

You haven’t backed that up at all. You just keep repeating it. On the other hand I’ve provided links to builds, completion times etc showing that despite the split, GW1 PvE was incredibly unbalanced. You won’t tackle any of those points though, you just keep spamming ‘it doesn’t hurt pvp, it helps pve’, despite being shown that at least one of those statements is flat out wrong.

And you’re talking about wasting peoples time? Smells like troll.

Well of blood – healing power
Well of darkness – condition duration
Well of corruption – condition duration, condition damage, power, crit, crit damage
Well of suffering – condition duration, power, crit, crit damage
Well of power – boon duration, healing power

Stupid, but true. Games with gear progression are all about overcoming a lack of skill by spending more time playing. It’s all about outgearing content and outgearing players. Otherwise, it serves no purpose aside from dictating the order in which you have to do things, and the average number of times you have to do thing x before you can do thing y.

Darmikau.9413:

You said you disagreed with all of them.

I disagreed with all the points in your original post. I haven’t addressed any of your other posts in this thread. Backtracking and trying to say I explicitly disagreed with a set of points that you think would suit your argument still isn’t producing any form of evidence that a PvE/PvP split was bad for GW1.

If your goal is somehow to lower the barrier of entry into PvP then you should take a real lesson from Guild Wars 1 – that berating PvE players attempting to PvP creates an elitist community that eventually dies off, just like what happened to HA – and apply that instead of trying to come up with a convoluted strawman argument that a PvE/PvP split somehow makes it harder to PvP. The barriers to entry in PvP are already there – it’s a completely different mindset and game type. The marginal cost of skill differentiation is completely negligible.

It doesn’t help, it only hurts, why do it. That’s the general point. Your opinion is that it has a negligible effect, fine, I don’t share it, so back it up.

Mammoth.1975:

1. GW1 had split skills.
2. GW1 PvP was pretty well balanced.
3. GW1 PvE was horribly unbalanced.
4. More people played PvE than PvP in GW1.

Conclusions:

1. Splitting doesn’t help with balancing both sides, it just means more work trying to balance the extra skill versions.
2. People will PvE no matter what.
3. More skill versions means more complexity means greater barriers to PvP means less PvPers means less PvP.

You said you disagreed with all of them.

I think there’s more equality in grinding games. In those, unemployed people are the best of the best, the cream of the crop, the elite. They’ve got the right stuff. No jobs. Here, it’s down to skill, that’s hardly fair on the unskilled is it? At least in other games they could quit their jobs and move into a basement and still be the best.

Darmikau.9413:

I’m disagreeing with all your points because you’re wrong.

So you think guild wars pve was balanced, guild wars pvp was unbalanced, more people played pvp than pve, and guild wars didn’t have split skills?

I see.

Jesiah.2457:

Because taking damage out of your rotation / play is obviously the best way to fight any class! So don’t use poison aoe for reduced healing and added damage, or caltrops on dodge roll, and no caltrops utility skill while fighting an Ele. Okay, well, there goes half of condition builds damage sources so … with that kind of logic, might as roll power and play 3 button easy cheese no skill mode.

Not sure if you’ve thought this through. What do you think happens to 3button easy cheese mode guys damage when his mug stuns him? Play better, not more.

You dropped caltrops against a d/d ele before he used shocking aura. Your mistake, you died. Just like it was my mistake when I dropped a well on them. Get better, no more problem.

raphaeldisanto.5478:

Mobs are there to be beaten. I don’t play PvE for challenge. I play PvE to be guaranteed to win the events. In PvE, I’m the hero. Heroes win. A mob’s entire purpose, it’s entire reason for existing, is to die to the heroes. That’s it’s job.

So what’s wrong with tuning the events instead?

Sorry Darmikau, which of those points were you disagreeing with?

BTW, to paraphrase, you’re on drugs if you think paragons would have been in a good state if they were split before nerfed. GW1 PvE was always all about abusing broken synergies, and paragons had a nice one with SY. So that was what they did.

There’s no such thing as a good state in GW1 pve. You abuse broken stuff or you play casually.