Guild Wars 2

Really?

Aza.2105:

In fact, it only makes things more difficult. With the current design, gw2 is very difficult to follow.
…

What the conquest mode does is intensify this. How? It puts everyone in a small circle (the capture point), were they just spam skills.

It’s getting to the point where you’re beginning to sound like a small child responding with ‘why?’ to every answer.

Aza.2105:

What the conquest mode does is intensify this. How? It puts everyone in a small circle (the capture point), were they just spam skills.

You said its bad to watch because everyone has to get on point. You’re wrong. Get it?

Aza.2105:

You are trying to tell me why conquest fails, when I don’t care since it has nothing to do with my thread.

Maybe you shouldn’t have repeatedly brought up conquest then.
You should also talk more about how anet doesn’t play their game.
Did you even mention anything else in the OP? Some crap about more transparent communication? The problem with that is telling your customers they need to stop being so kittening stupid and L2P before you can find mutual ground for a conversation isn’t real good PR, but that’s all they can do to half the loaded questions they get.

Example:
Player: Herpadurp conquest bad, everyone in circle, big bright flashes, someone die, me no know how.
Anet: Maybe if you knew how to play it, that wouldn’t happen and you’d enjoy it more.
Player: OMG you no say bad thing to me I R CUSTOMER!

I told you why conquest fails. I used your post and Diages post as examples. You’re the one translating that into ‘conquest isn’t bad’ I’m afraid.

Once again, you should have followed that link. It’s pretty tongue in cheek but I genuinely believe they need to dumb this game down a lot to help certain players. Team death match is the most casual friendly format there is, I fully support it.

Go ahead, backtrack on it. Be my guest.

While you’re at it, you should backtrack on the ignorance you displayed with the ‘anet doesn’t play gw2’ thing too, since as I said, they play it better than you.

Aza.2105:

You responding the way you do has nothing to do with me, the only thing I do is cause you to see yourself. Its not my fault or anyone elses here that you can’t come to terms with your inadequacies. Hence your need to assign people the role of “bad”. Which makes you by proxy “good”. If doing this continues to make you feel good about yourself. But please refrain from including me in your personal problems.

Its completely irrelevant to the game and this thread.

I didn’t assign you that role, you did. In your opening post. You don’t understand the gametype, and so you complain about it. Recurring theme on this forum.

BTW, anyone who knows me in game or my post history on the forums knows that I’m the first to admit I’m bad at this game. You should have followed that link. Let me quote myself from it: “I’m really bad”. I know the basics, that’s all. That seems to be all it takes to differentiate between the two of us however.

Aza.2105:

Mammoth.1975:

I shared my opinion on a gametype I fundamentally fail at, I shouldn’t even be posting if I were me right now.

Yes, this sounds about right. The picture is very different when you apply what you are saying to yourself, instead of others. Very little of what you are saying has to do with others in this thread.

Actually, what I’m saying has a lot to do with you in particular, since you’re the clearest example of the playerbase being bad in this thread. I can kind of understand that not spreading out all over the map is a difficult concept (ok not really but it seems like most players have trouble with it so I guess it is), but not bunching up on point is GW2 101.

You shared your opinion on a gametype you fundamentally fail at, I wouldn’t even be posting if I were you right now.

I made a good case for team death match over here, check it out:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/This-game-is-too-hard/first

Aza.2105:

Your ignorance is necessary for this thread, continue.

Strong counterargument. Get aoed moar?

GankSinatra.2653:

If conquest fails because players are morons, then conquest still fails. If you aim to provide entertainment then you give the people what they want. Clearly this path has been golden all the way. But hey lets ignore everything and just think that anyone with a differing opinion is just a noob @ conquest. I are master discussionist.

Its ok that you like conquest dude, dont be mad. You will always have the chance to fight pretend players with your 4 friends while we are in deathmatches.

I haven’t said whether I like it or not, I just said why it fails. Don’t get so defensive. It would be great if someone would prove me wrong instead of continuing to prove me right btw.

“Conquest fails because it forces everyone to stand on point”
“Conquest fails because it forces you to spread out all over the map”

These aren’t ‘differing opinions’, they’re stupid plays. Let me say it again, conquest fails because players are morons.

Oh, and btw, another thing that came up in the OP:

I’m pretty sure Anet plays their own game, since there were two Anet players in the top100 NA soloboards for a while. They’re just playing it better than you, and that’s where the disconnect between devs and players actually is. They don’t see the same problems as you because they don’t have the same problems as you. The problem you’re having is self inflicted. Use your head, stop bunching up on point, problem disappears.

I’m just telling you that conquest fails because players are morons. Lost count of the number of times I see some genius post ‘conquest sucks bring back teh gvgzzzzz’. Which either means ‘slow the game down’ or ‘i need more npcs in my pvp’, because those are the main differences. If they have any understanding of how to win at conquest that is.

TBH I agree with you that some modifications to the maps would be a good idea so that we could see some different strategies be successful. I mean, not that it’s really needed US side, since you can beat bad strats with bad strats.

Diage.6451:

…

You’re still using the same argument I’ve already addressed. Conquest doesn’t force you to spread out, it forces you to split one guy and coordinate with him. This is not much different to the split teams that ruled the meta for about the last 5 years of GW1.

You want to split 3 ways, a team that knows what they’re doing will destroy you. If you go 1-3-1, they beat you 4v3 at mid while you’re 1v1ing a semi bunker at far, then collapse one guy on you and 2v1 you there. Or they can just collapse a guy on you right away if you can’t spam stealth, hold the 3v3 at mid until they finish you off then 5v3/4 you at mid while your ‘offensive roamer’ is watching his spawn timer. GJ slowing down the cap, shame about the teamwipe and giving up control of 2 points. Oh, and it might seem too obvious to say, but just in case, if you let them control 2 points all game, you lose. Strategies that are ultimately going to result in giving up control of 2 points are… not good. That’s why your argument is illogical. You’re playing to lose if you spread out all over the map.

Your home bunker is going to be too slow to save you in the 4v3 if he wants to finish capping because they’ll just ride the initial advantage. If the fight does last long enough for your home bunker to have any impact, they can threaten a decap at far, leaving a 3v3 at mid, but one that still favours them because of that initial 4v3. If they have someone who is more mobile than your back bunker do it, they can also continue to provide support at mid. By the way, you can end a 4v3 much faster than a 1v1, because the team with more numbers doesn’t have to worry about positioning, they can just focus fire whoever they want and reliably get peels if anyone is in trouble, which is unlikely anyway due to the amount of pressure the other team is under. Plus you only need one kill before you can send someone home to 2v1. Two kills if you think their back bunker might be able to turn the fight after the other 2 guys they have there have burned all their cooldowns.

No matter which way you look at it, sending less than 4 to mid is fail. Assuming competent opponents. You’re simply involving one more of their team in the initial action than you need to. You can and probably should have someone swing by home with your backbunker to stave off some kind of early rush or if you intend to 2v1+3v3 if they do try to harass, but generally they’ll move straight to mid from there while the backbunker finishes capping.

And that’s why NA actually lost the invitational. Poor understanding of conquest. It’s closer to GvG than it is to LoL. Not that I should have to point it out but since a lot of people seem to have trouble with 2+2, the only really close game was the one where SYNC sent 4 mid initially, and the main reason they lost it was being too slow to collapse on their home point, often because they had a player or two on the other end of the map for no real reason. In fact the main objective there seemed to be to advertise that home was open because they were trying to split 4 ways: home/mid/far/enemytreb. Watch EU teams on forest for a good how to basics GW2 tbh. The CC/TP finals for preference. Forget the action, just watch the minimap.

Lighter.5631:

Mammoth.1975:

Lopez.7369:

Berserker Stance was buffed from four-second duration to eight-second duration after the necromancer patch.

Yah sorry you’re correct, it was increased 2 weeks later in the next patch.

Which means they did get “new toys” + healing buff. there i said it, if you still didn’t realize it.

If you really want to get particular about the details, no one was running necros for those 2 weeks anyway, because once again, the playerbase was way behind.

Either way you want to look at it, the counter has been in play for 7 weeks tomorrow, but no one caught on till yesterday, and some of the posters on this forum are still whining about condi meta even after watching double melee destroy it yesterday. I mean these guys actually saw the countercomp sweep 3-0 and still don’t think it exists.

Lopez.7369:

Berserker Stance was buffed from four-second duration to eight-second duration after the necromancer patch.

Yah sorry you’re correct, it was increased 2 weeks later in the next patch.

Akkuma.2501:

Warriors did get “new toys”. They improved Berserker’s Stance to 8s after the initial 4s introduction and they improved all the heals. However, I’ll agree for the most part they could have been seen way earlier in the meta.

Berserker stance change was in the same patch as the necro buffs. The counter has been right there all along. I think you’re right about healsig though, good point.

That’s another player skill that has been lost somewhere in the last 9 months. I remember when if your bunker was going down and you had no revives, he would call on comms that he had to get off point and someone else would move on and burn defensive cooldowns till the bunker got some cooldowns back.

Sometimes you don’t even need a player on the point. If you can push or avoid a kill by leaving the point, it’s often worth it, because that kill can snowball into a teamwipe/retreat, so you get the point back anyway while they respawn. It really depends on how much pressure the bunkers are under. It’s a judgement call that most people aren’t even capable of making because they’re too busy putting 5 people on point.

Likewise if you’re running back bunker and losing a 1v1 on your point (awkward already but whatever), it’s better to get off point if it means you have a solid chance of getting back into the fight. You’re losing the point either way. If no one from your team is coming (awkward again), take advantage of the fact that you’re probably built for sustain and retreat, regen, and gank them while they’re low/out of cooldowns. Even if you just have to go elsewhere and concede the point, it’s better than giving them a bonus 5 points and earning yourself a 20s timer. You shouldn’t get off the point if you’re going to die anyway of course.

I can tell you what it doesn’t mean. Using ‘EVERYONE HAS TO STAND ON POINT AND GET AOED’ as an argument against conquest.

Or he likes logical arguments. If the hivemind on this forum knows what those are, I have yet to see any evidence of it.

Another example of the playerbase being bad:

2 months of spamwhining about the condi meta before people figured out how to counter it and a double melee team won the invitational. Did warriors get new toys in those 2 months? Nope. The tools were always there to countercomp the OP CONDI TEAMZ but the playerbase was too stupid to figure it out. Despite being told how repeatedly.

Shrug, that’s the way it is. Especially NA, people treat nodes like lanes and pretend they’re playing LoL. No one comprehends that it forces the same kind of play as GW1 GvG with splits and collapses because they don’t play it like that. They’d prefer to split 3 ways, get collapsed on, and lose.

Here are the key differences:
No NPCs.
Different secondary mechanic to flagrunning every map.
Faster pace of play/no backline means no 28 minute stand fights. Except on foefire.

The last one is another kitten check. Do you give up 10 points by waiting 20 seconds to regroup if mid is capped or do you stream in? Guess which option 99% of people choose?

I mean look at the OP. “The mode forces everyone onto a tiny point”. Sure, if you think you need to have 5 people capping. Tell me again how it’s not players failing at conquest. Please.

Conquest doesn’t work because players are stupid. End of story.

Alkaholic.3875:

Mammoth.1975:

Except he regens 400-750 a second making him highly resilient against any kind of pressure build and has a range of other options to choose from, from better mobility allowing him to disengage without resetting while that regen ticks through blocks and invulns letting it tick, or spamming more condi removal with cleansing ire and longbow. Or he could just chain stuns on them since condi classes have kitten for stunbreaks and stability. Conversely, he can get over 60 seconds of stability/berserker stance at the start of a fight if he wants to go that way instead. If you’re struggling with condis as a warrior we’re not going to find any middle ground for a conversation I suspect.

These posts are hilarious, how do u chain stun with hammer and longbow. There are three very telegraphed stuns on hammer that can be dodged. Without nave main hand you can call this a sun lock build. 60 seconds of stability? Wtf? Warriors are a new supper class? They are very susceptible to burst when endure pain is down. Super was dead in most fights in the PAX finals.

Highlighted the part you failed to comprehend. Also if you think warriors can’t get over a minute where they always have either stability or berserker stance, you fail again.

Narcarsis.5739:

…

You pulled out some flashes of brilliance in game 1 imo.
You’re all invited to Going For Far [BAD] btw :P
More importantly, do you get to keep the shirts?

Lopez.7369:

It shouldn’t be taken literally to think it means people are only using condition classes

By ‘only’, you mean ‘actually’ right? Because it’s quite difficult to have less than one condi guy at mid without having zero, and the team that just won the invitational only had one condi guy initially dedicated to mid.

Intro to comp metagaming 101:

Triple condi team rolls mesmer/ele/thief burst teams.
Mesmer/ele/thief burst teams roll double melee teams.
Double melee teams roll triple condis.

The next couple months will have warrior whines spammed all over the place until people finally work out that warriors can magically be countered too. Countered by the same stuff that has always countered them and kept them as a tier 8 class for months, since the whole meta was burst because conditions were too weak to counter those comps.

The only actual problem is that with 5 players on a team which requires a midbunker and backbunker of some kind, changing one guys build or profession has a huge impact. In gw1 where some builds would run 7 at stand, changing one guys build or a midliners profession would give you an edge against some comps or cover a weakness against others without totally defining your team.

Lopez.7369:

I know it was longer than two sentences, but that second paragraph was more important than the first.

I also don’t understand how you read the first paragraph and missed me explicitly saying that I don’t call this current meta a condition meta.

Why are you quoting me then? I’m asking what the whiners feel defines a condi meta.

BTW welcome to kittening pvp, here there are mandatory classes. Since day 1.

Lopez.7369:

I’m not the one calling it a condition metagame. (But when people do call it that, I’m not purposely obtuse; I understand what they mean.)

The current metagame is condition necromancer, sword / dagger thief, spirit ranger, guardian and a final slot that can be whatever a team feels is necessary. Do you see a problem with all of those mandatory classes? They’re all completely uninteresting to watch and way too easy to pick up and do very well with. That’s the biggest problem. The game is simply too unrewarding to skill, which causes many victories and losses to feel cheap.

I think you might be being purposely obtuse actually. 2 bunkers, a power build, and a condition build does not make a condi spam meta. This forum is so far behind it’s not even worth joking about anymore. Warriors have had the tools they currently have for over 2 months. The very same day necros got buffed, warriors got the new berserker stance.

“My team lost to X, X is so OP, better post about it. Hurpadurp what’s a counter? How is meta formed?’.

It only measures games played, since everyone will eventually win enough for it. ‘X of the arena’ is the only meaningful title, and even that is a little sketchy.

Oh, slayer. That’s even easier.

Lopez.7369:

Replacing a condi build with a power build isn’t a metagame shift

So since it seems you people are actually serious, let me ask directly.

One condition guy and one condition backbunker is how you are defining a condi spam metagame? How many conditions classes are ok on a 5man team before you consider condis too strong? 2 is clearly too many, so is 1 ok? Or only if it’s a backbunker? Or is having any condi pressure on teams a condi spam meta?

Parisalchuk.9230:

Mammoth.1975:

Parisalchuk.9230:

Mammoth.1975:

Condispam meta has nothing to do with anet. Hivemind too slow to figure out the counter is all. 5000 people just watched a warrior walk all over SYNC and the spvp forum is still whining about condis. Good for lols I guess.

The warrior walked all over the ranger… because the rangers stood in AOE fire field which took out all spirits (something people have been saying is a counter for a while). 3 matches does not all of a sudden shift meta because 1 team was able to coordinate very well against a HIGHLY overconfident team which played very poorly.

Good thing the other condi builds destroy warriors right?

Force a warrior to pop his Zerk Stance and live and condis will do just fine against them…

Except he regens 400-750 a second making him highly resilient against any kind of pressure build and has a range of other options to choose from, from better mobility allowing him to disengage without resetting while that regen ticks through blocks and invulns letting it tick, or spamming more condi removal with cleansing ire and longbow. Or he could just chain stuns on them since condi classes have kitten for stunbreaks and stability. Conversely, he can get over 60 seconds of stability/berserker stance at the start of a fight if he wants to go that way instead. If you’re struggling with condis as a warrior we’re not going to find any middle ground for a conversation I suspect.

I find the spirit ranger elite dies pretty fast if it’s focused. Trying to condi it out is where the problems happen, that 440/tick adds up. I don’t disagree with your other points, but I kinda like where warriors are at so nerfs would have to be pretty careful.

Parisalchuk.9230:

Mammoth.1975:

Condispam meta has nothing to do with anet. Hivemind too slow to figure out the counter is all. 5000 people just watched a warrior walk all over SYNC and the spvp forum is still whining about condis. Good for lols I guess.

The warrior walked all over the ranger… because the rangers stood in AOE fire field which took out all spirits (something people have been saying is a counter for a while). 3 matches does not all of a sudden shift meta because 1 team was able to coordinate very well against a HIGHLY overconfident team which played very poorly.

Good thing the other condi builds destroy warriors right?

Condispam meta has nothing to do with anet. Hivemind too slow to figure out the counter is all. 5000 people just watched a warrior walk all over SYNC and the spvp forum is still whining about condis. Good for lols I guess.

Parisalchuk.9230:

Mammoth.1975:

So a conditions backbunker and a condition pressure guy equals a condispam meta. Can’t tell if serious.

A 2 Spirit Ranger, Necro, Guard, Thief team comp is condi spam… Other alternatives… drop 1 SR for an Engi… still condi spam…

I don’t know if you noticed, but the team with 3 condi builds got kittening stomped.

So a conditions backbunker and a condition pressure guy equals a condispam meta. Can’t tell if serious.

Mammoth.1975:

Also, having to choose the best from many possible targets is too confusing. People have a hard time selecting their target when there are things like clones and bone minions to contend with. This needs fixing, as I don’t think a tutorial can help those who struggle with this particular aspect of the game.

As an example of this, the PAX tourney was too confusing for a lot of viewers judging by a number of the comments. Distinguishing between rangers and nature spirits is quite difficult for some people. You recognise them by the ‘AI playing the game for you lolol’ posts, which seems to indicate that having more than 4 enemies on the screen at once confuses them to the point where they can’t figure out which ones are actually attacking and which ones are signets on legs.

I often hear them express the sentiment that AI doesn’t work for esports, which I guess is why they don’t play things like LoL.

I’m not sure what the answer is for this unfortunately, although I did see one of them make a suggestion, which was to “Delete rangers. Necros too”, which seems pretty well thought out.

dreztina.4820:

Watching this made me sad. There were actually points of excitement, interesting strategy, and a great level of skill displayed. And yet, it was still pretty bad to watch.

Every teamfight, the effects got so bright that I literally could not discern the characters in the fights. I couldn’t tell what skills were being used. I couldn’t see how the fight was going. I spent more time watching the health bars in the corners than I did the game itself. And the AI. Jesus. Two spirit rangers in the middle of a team fight and that was it. Couldn’t see anything.

I think the things that make GW2 so bad to watch could be fixed, but I have absolutely zero faith that anet will make it happen. I am once again disappointed not by the game itself, but by the fact that a game with such an incredible amount of potential is going to waste because of the studio behind it.

90% of that was the camerawork. There was one fight at keep with two spirit rangers involved and whoever was on the camera changed angles like 4 times in 10 seconds.

I began to suspect a severe case of ADHD. It was pretty chaotic already, spamming angle changes didn’t help.

Sad, called it 3-0 without ever even seeing CC play before. NA has a really poor understanding of conquest. The team fights were intense but SYNCs map control wasn’t there. GGs anyway.

Chase.8415:

Mammoth.1975:

pinkglow.3429:

Btw, little info on what classes are on leaderboards. Anyone had the time and energy to find out most represented ones?

In order:

1. Necro
2. Guard
3. Engi
4. Warrior
5. Ranger

That’s for people over 100 games in the top 500, but it’s from a couple days ago, and I only know about 75% of them.

You must be going crazy if you think guardians are more represented than rangers.

Or I counted.

pinkglow.3429:

Btw, little info on what classes are on leaderboards. Anyone had the time and energy to find out most represented ones?

In order:

1. Necro
2. Guard
3. Engi
4. Warrior
5. Ranger

That’s for people over 100 games in the top 500, but it’s from a couple days ago, and I only know about 75% of them.

uberkingkong.8041:

People just get upset you didn’t rez them or all yall got your kitten wooped or you guys ran away from the fight and left him to die so he gives up. Some people just have low anger issues or whatever its called when someone gets mad because you didn’t do something right.

The problem with that is they may not have a full awareness of what is ‘right’. Example:

“RES ME NOOBS!”
“WHAT ARE THESE ‘WELLS’ YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT?”

or:

“OMFG L2STOMP”
“WHAT DOES YOU HAVING 37 HEALTH HAVE TO DO WITH IT? STOMP!!!1one”

That’s the two most common ragefails I see anyway. Someones corpse getting cleaved to hell and crying because no one will revive them, or someone whining about a lack of stomps when there’s just no one left in the fight who can survive standing still for that long. Third would be the guy who cries about lack of stomps when his team has no stability and are getting pingponged.

The whole concept of blaming your team is stupid anyway. If the matchmaking paired you, it’s because you’re fairly close in rating. If the matchmaking set them against the other team, it’s because the other team is fairly close to them in rating too. If you’re so much better you should be able to carry against that level of opposition.

You’re playing with people around your skill level, so maybe focus on your own mistakes instead of theirs. Calling your team noobs begs the question: what are you doing in their bracket?

Yeah warriors are the second best class in there imo. Fear me, stomp, dolyak signet, balanced stance, and last stand are all strong. When fighting warriors in there I often have to jump through the portal a couple times while waiting for their second and third stability to wear off.

Mesmers have a couple of problems though.

The problem with greatsword push is that there are too many places you can stand so that greatsword push is irrelevant. Stealth focus pull is good but with the 1s cooldown it’s a lot easier to dodge.

Fear lets a necro herd you off the edge, buying them time to get their positioning right that few other classes have. You can fear someone who is almost anywhere in the room and then just move around them so they run onto the glass. You can start a tainted shackles then doom them onto the glass a second or two later, which is really only avoidable with teleports unless they know what’s happening and pop a preemptive stability. Corrupt stabilities, block them into unpleasant places with spectral wall while you wait for a targetted fear to come off cooldown, etc etc. On top of that you have a 4s aoe fear proc if you ever get any kind of CC used on you, which makes it really hard to tee up with a hammer and often results in both of you dying if you ever do get pulled onto glass. If they somehow manage to avoid all your crap, your condis are still doing a ton of damage.

Necro can do portal tricks to avoid the gate debuff on a much shorter cooldown with spectral walk, which is also a stunbreak and a second chance if you do get knocked off. This is the only map where a necro can reliably disengage, which nullifies their biggest weaknesses.

I also found out yesterday that you can still oneshot people with golem charge if they try to get too cute with their positioning on the cannon. I’ve died to warriors, guards, sometimes engis, the occasional mesmer or thief, and even an ele once, but my K/D ratio in cannon room must be like 5 or 6 to 1, maybe more. More like 20 to 1 if you count hotjoins. Let’s face it, that’s not due to my ability, because I suck :P

Engis are ok on skyhammer, but I have yet to find anything to beat a necro. Warriors with 5 stabilities are annoying though. I did run into one guard who had really good stability uptime too.

It’s definitely the map for build over skill btw. Put me in cannon room on a trollspec necro, I will happily 1v2 and sometimes 1v3 players who would normally kitten on me in a 1v1. It really shouldn’t be in the rotation until some changes are made, even if solo queue is intended to be pretty casual.

This is actually a perfect summary of all your posts. GJ!

I actually tested this out for a bit the last couple of days and it’s extremely strong against bunkers. This is the first time I’ve tested it since both it and weakness were changed. The ability to stack 4 significant condis with your scepter auto alone in the opening seconds of a fight draws cleanses really fast. Marks to follow up, if/when those get cleansed, signet of spite, and if they’re stacking massive condi removal across multiple characters so they can still manage to get clean, corrupt boon.

Of course the build sucked because it was utterly helpless under any kind of melee pressure, but it ripped bunkers apart fast enough to change the whole dynamic of the games I ran it in.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Because getting to a high solo queue rank is by in itself pure luck.

That explains why all the best players in the game are top 100.

Top 25 NA soloQ with > 100 games:

Iroha
Magnobear
Dustinbro
Identity Lost
Stuningstyles
Juaraz Feng
Scintelle
Anathemancer
Baby Feed
Illusionary Bong
Cryptographic
Mini Grimmy Soulz
Uhíwi
Chiisakute Kawaii
Lily Rosethorn
Fatty Eggs
Melancholia
Cruuk
Vvv Steamhawke
Genyen Z
Super Mang Jose Jr
Elita One
Gadgets Vain
Wacky Bruce
Thenleaf

It may not be an accurate read but it’s the most accurate we have. No one on that list is getting carried, queue dodging and pugstomping, crutching on easy wins in the early games, or just getting lucky. Luck is still a bit of a factor with 100 games, but it’s had some time to start evening out. Quite a few of them stream, well worth watching if you’re looking to improve your play and maybe get up there yourself.

It would be nice to be able to filter by profession. There are a lot of necros, engis, and guardians there. I don’t know the main solo queue profession of a few of the people on the list though.

BTW top 100 with > 100 games is equal to rank 363 atm. Everyone who is above that with > 100 games played is in the list.

Also, I think Symbolic is the best evidence that the initial ratings deviation is too high right now. He got to #1 (or was it 2?) by going 11-0 against the kind of opposition you can go 11-0 against, which is clearly weaker than the level of opposition he faces now, because he then went 11-6 and dropped to #27 despite having almost 65% win rate while playing at the top. He needs to play a lot more games before those initial 11 high RD games against weak opposition will be absorbed into his rating properly. If he continues with that win percentage, he would be around #10 on this list.

I’m not criticising Symbolic here, it just seems the Glicko2 system could use some tweaking if people only need to play 1 game a month to maintain their leaderboard spot. If everyone who goes 11-0 or 11-1 drops rating when they keep playing, there’s obviously a problem, and everyone does. The system is clearly not finding the appropriate rating for them via that high initial RD, it’s just overly rewarding those who have a lucky initial run and overly punishing those who get a few 4v5s or otherwise terrible teams early on. That might be fine for chess, where luck is not a factor, but in a random team environment, it does make a difference.

Lastly, team queue is where it’s really at. The skillset is slightly different, and larger. However, the soloboard removes the possibility that someone is being carried and should have a somewhat lower rank. I think this could apply to a handful of ‘good players’ after watching some of the streams out there.

King Slacker.1843:

Mammoth.1975:

I’m not sure where I implied that they did. I’m just saying it seems like a strange thing to get all histrionic about.

OK, then probably the reason you don’t understand why people are saying this is unplayable, is because you don’t realize that removing Face/UP functionality is exactly what they did. That option is no longer available.

You probably use North/UP all the time, so the new mini-map is not a big deal change to you. If you used Face/UP all the time, like some of us do, then this is a fundamental change that you would likely not be happy about.

No, I realise it’s gone, I’m saying it seems like a strange thing to be unable to play without.

I have tanked over 300 leaderboard spots in 3 days trying to carry minimum 1 far point spamming super pro 1v1 guy in every game. Every single one. It’s actually funny now. I’m getting better at those 3v4s at mid.

I’m not sure where I implied that they did. I’m just saying it seems like a strange thing to get all histrionic about.