Guild Wars 2

Xyonon.3987:

That’s not the point. The point is that you have the skill and you should make use of it. You can also easy play with 3 kits, because the kits themsleves grant you the utility you need.

I do not have them – i can have them, that’s the matter. They are optional, thus we should be balanced either if we have 3 kits or no kit at all.

Xyonon.3987:

The grenade or bomb kit are more damage focused, whereas on the other hand the elixier gun and the (forgot the name, playin’ in a different language) mechanic kit are very utility focused.

Tell me – what skills do you use as Utility slots? Or better: wich one do you want to use but you can’t because of the kits?

Try playing Pistol/Shield while not using any kit. See for yourself how much damage you deal. Sure, you can buff yourself a bit via elixirs – but you still lack the means of dealing damage, other than the autoattack. And the autoattack can’t do much alone.
Sure, the situation is a bit better with two pistols, but just slightly – you just added a some burning.
And we can use static discharge on a rifle build…but there we won’t be using kits only due of their toolbelt cooldowns, not because we’re efficient without them; and we’re still relegated on getting the utilities with the shortest toolbelt cooldowns.

Xyonon.3987:

The toolbelt is not our main mechanic. It’s simply a class mechanic, but it’s not that important as the kits themselves. It’s like shatter for mesmer – the main mechanic still is the illusions.

Except the kits are optional – and you can’t balance a whole class taking for assured something optional will be used.

Mesmers can create illusions with their main weapons. And they can swap between them to create some more. Then they can shatter them.
And they haven’t used a single utility slot in doing so.

Whereas we start without a second weapon slot, our main weapons dps are nerfed due to the existance of kits (at least, this was the design until last december, they never updated regarding their intentions) and we have to spend utility slots for additional weapons (that are ultimately more limited than normal main weapons, mostly for balance reasons as i explained in a post above). And that is just to be on par with other classes (sure, we have no swap cooldown, but the #2…#5 skills are also toned down in effects compared to normal weapon skills, and we still pay a slot for them).

Sure, one could say we have the toolbelt to compensate for it…but that is our class mechanic, it shouldn’t compensate anything. It would be like saying warriors should have a reduced damage on weapons because they have a burst skill, or that guardians should have reduced healing, blocks and damage because they can heal, burn and put aegis with their virtues.

Xyonon.3987:

If you use kits? IF you use kits?! IF you use kits?!?!
Dude that’s like you would say “Mesmer are just good if they use illusions” o.O It’s our main mechanic to use kits wtf o.O At least one is a must.

No, our main mechanic is the toolbelt.
If kits were our main mechanic, we would always have them without spending utility slots. And it isn’t so.

(and mesmers can generate illusions with weapon skills as well, anyway)

Wethospu.6437:

We don’t want any extra rewards. Before this change no one was asking for anything. We knew what the rules were and weren’t surprised that higher scales barely gave anything.

But now, the rules are changing. We are losing our reward. We want compensation for that.

The level itself was never a reward – and even if some people are giving that much importance to that number, the game itself never cared much about it (there is literally no achievement tied with fractal level, as i said before).
It was just needed to play higher levels and getting the related reward – and they are either removing or changing (quite sensibly, i hope) said levels.

Also, you already got the rewards you were supposed to get for playing those high levels in the past – higher chance of fractal weapons and more karma when playing lower levels.

If you use kits.
If you don’t, you have less skills than anyone else in the game – especially weapon ones.
So you will have to rely on the autoattack.

Bloodyhell.8760:

Ok guys, this is my first post in the forum… be kind with me;).

I absolutely love gw2, and I appreciate a lot affords I see anet is involving in it.

But, this… sorry guys… is simply wrong.

The reason (mr. Manuhell) this case is different is obviously because something we had will be stolen.

That’s it.

I simply can’t let pass it as an accettable misure to improve people experience in fractal, and I don’t care if my first -post realease- fractal will be a 10 or a 44 (my level cap till now).

The fact is exactly that i can not be punished for have done something.
And you know what? Everybody fractal level is not something unvaluable.

It’s a point of honor have reached an hiher level in fractal. We all know it. Fotm is one of the 2 or 3 things that really are difficult in the game.

It’s more than an achievement that you usually take easily: it is a status.

It says you love hard things and you are a pretty good player.

So Anet, this time is a failure. Please do something.

GW2 is my first mmo. I started a the noobest of all. Nobody invited me neither in fractal 10. time as gone by, and now my guild member are happy to have me in a 44 or 48.

So I feel like you’re going to steal my personal story in game.

I know it can be felt wrong as well – but there aren’t right options available anymore.
As i said before, the only right option was putting in titles and achievements with large advance – several months ago – and informing the userbase of the change beforehand, so that whoever was interested in gaining them had the time to do it, well knowing he could do it only for a limited time. Or postpone the contents and do it now. Both are unfeasible – we can’t change the past, and they will never postpone it now.
You say that you can’t be punished for having done something. Right, but neither you can be rewarded for something that was never supposed to give a reward, or get punished to not have done something you weren’t supposed to do anyway.
You talk about the fractal level being a point of honor, a status…but those are all things people gave to that number of their own initiative. The game never recognized it. No achievements, no title, not even a way to display it publicly.
So why should they put them now that the content is becoming unavailable?
It is even more wrong that not giving anything – that is, what they were supposed to get anyway, since there weren’t reward to begin with for completing said that task. Except it affects even more people. And they would be right to be angry, too.
As i said before, how would you feel it they gave a prize to everyone who did at least 200 times the mad king’s clock tower, or whoever completed tribulation mode 40 times, or something like that? How would it make sense?
It doesn’t make sense, exactly as the reward people are feeling entitled to get.

Not to talk about the disparity this would create between people who levelled multiple chars and one who focused on one.

Wethospu.6437:

Reward of playing 50-80 is mostly about getting to the higher scale. Now when they remove those higher levels we lose most of our rewards.
You are probably also have a number which you are care about (whether it is achievement points, gear, gold, wxp, etc).

I don’t even consider level 50+.
To quote what you said yourself some pages ago:

Wethospu.6437:

(…)Grind to 50, figure out a hole in their system because they just can’t edit one line of code properly, grind to 80,(…)

So i won’t spend time talking about it.

Apart from that, all the “numbers” you’re talking about have an use that is predetermined, known in advance, and it refers to available content. There is no hidden use of those who is revealed after their removal.
As i explained before, i’m not opposed at rewards – i’m opposed at putting them retroactively for something that isn’t available anymore.
If they put an achievement for getting to level 50 with the new patch, i will do it if i’m interested on getting said achievement.
But getting left out of a reward because you didn’t do something that wasn’t even supposed to give one, doesn’t make sense at all.

You can disagree how much you want, but the analogy is completely wrong – and i explained why just above.
And they put time and effort of their own initiative, well knowing it didn’t award titles, achievements or any other reward. I don’t see why they should get one now, when they are making such things unavailable.

Would it be fair to give a Mad King’s mask now to whoever finished 200 times the Mad King’s Clock Tower in the last halloween?
Obviously no. People didn’t expect a reward – they were never supposed to get one.
So why should this be different?

Faux.1937:

Living story gives rewards all the time and they are removed all the time, doesnt sop anything and anet seems to like it like that.

But they aren’t put retroactively, and neither when the content isn’t available anymore.
We already know they are temporary when they are implemented, and we are free to get them until they are removed.
Here people are talking about giving rewards to something that wasn’t even an achievement, and when it will be already removed, thus unavailable.
There is quite a vast difference.

I don’t see much sense in putting a leaderboard retroactively that refers to content made then unavailable. Especially since there was no competitiveness in the old fractals – as there wasn’t even a way to display your fractal level (and neither there will be one with the patch, as far as we know…we still lack many details, even about the leaderboards).
Anyone who progressed with the old system did it for personal reasons, basically. An official recognition was never mentioned, and neither should be implemented for content made then unavailable.

To make an example, it would make sense as putting a leaderboard with the mad king’s clock tower completition times tomorrow.

Kitta.3657:

What if they made a special achievement only obtainable if you made it further lvl 50? I think that makes it fair.

I don’t see much fairness in putting a retroactive achievement or title when the content it is referring for has being removed, thus making it unavailable. Such a thing should have been implemented long before, for it to be fair.
And adding a reward retroactively on something that wasn’t supposed to give rewards to begin with would screw up with the people who avoided said content for that exact reason.
Especially since we don’t even have a single fractal achievement regarding personal fractal levels.

I’m waiting to see the livestream so that we can have some idea about how much instabilities will variate the content, but i’m overall fine with the change as it is.

Requiem.8769:

We have so many skills. If you think the #1 is weak then for heaven’s sake don’t use it.

Actually, we don’t have “so many skills”.
We can have many skills if we slot kits.
If we don’t, we have quite a limited number – less than any other class, due to no weapon swap – and the autoattack must be used quite often.
So, if it is weak, it is quite a problem.

phys.7689:

uhhh engineer has a lot of condi removal

They’re often mutually exclusive,though; also, since we must use utility slots for our weapons as well, our choice about what to get is extremely limited. Anyway…

Fumigate (from Elixir Gun) — Spray a cone of elixir fumes, inflicting poison and vulnerability to foes and curing conditions on allies with every strike.

Cures allies, but not the engineer.

Super Elixir (Elixir Gun) — One condition from allies in area, unlisted effect.

Single condition every 20s (16s if traited) – still, we’re using up a slot, so take note about this.

Toss Elixir R (Elixir R) — Toss Elixir R, curing conditions and reviving allies.

All conditions, but 120s base cooldown (and can be lowered only with the last trait line); you’re using up another slot, though.

Blessing of Kormir (Prayer to Kormir) — Beseech Kormir to remove one condition from your allies at the target location.
Cleansing Burst (Healing Turret) — Overcharge your healing turret, supplying a burst of healing that cures two conditions.
Drop Antidote (Med Kit) — Drop a vial of antidote that cures conditions.

Mutually exclusive – they are all in different healing skills.

Cleaning Formula 409 – one condition from allies affected by elixirs

But it requires you to use elixirs – thus, either those or weapons.

Automated Response (upon health reaching 25%)

Doesn’t heal conditions – it prevents you from taking further ones, though.

You did forget to mention Elixir C (converts all conditions to boons with utility skill, single area conversion with tossed version).
That by itself is quite a nice condition cleanse.

phys.7689:

2 light fields
Super Elixir (from Elixir Gun)
Toss Elixir R (tool belt skill from Elixir R)

No one would ever use toss elixir R to heal conditions; apart from that, we still require finishers to cleanse conditions. Obviously we lack 100% projectile ones if we get the other cleanses, since they are in other utilities.

Also, we have the minor transmute trait, that is getting changed to convert a single incoming condition every 15s (quite a bad trait, actually, since it does nothing to already applied ones).

phys.7689:

now its not the best in the game maybe but its way more than thief which has
1 weapon skill one
2 utilities 1 on a 60 second cool down and the other on a 30 second cool down.
1 trait

Sure, but either we get weapons, or we get cleanses; and what use we are if we can’t do anything else than cleanse us? The engineers’ main weapons can’t do much alone- they’re designed to be used with kits.

SoPP.7034:

My goodness some people are self-entitled.

It’s prestige gear, it doesn’t change the game at all. But some people either worked their kitten off by running those dungeons again and again or maybe just super lucky (and no I wasn’t one of them). You got your dungeons back, why undermine the prestige items of others in the process.

Some of the people in this thread would be super upset if they got a nice drop once, that was 1000’s gold worth, only to have it trivialised later and made worth 2 gold.

As someone who farmed a lot the Molten Facility for the jetpack (and found none) and that has got a monocle in like three runs of Aetherblade Retreat, i disagree.

Things that depend on rng can’t be really earned – either you are lucky, or you are not.

In the end, the best solution was the one applied for SAB content.
If you are lucky you can drop the sellable version, but you can still work for an account bound one. Or earn a different coloured version not available in any other way via tribulation mode, but there is still no luck involved, just effort.

Estriella Faerie.4029:

Manuhell.2759:

PvP was all about competition and fighting for the top of the leaderboard, though. Fractals never encouraged that.

Yeah, right… When they released a dungeon with “infinite progression”, that was not encouraging us at all to go the further we can…

Seeing as there isn’t even a single achievement or title about fractal level or some way to make other people see your fractal level outside of inviting them and getting to the entrance of the dungeon, yeah.
And all the achievements can be got at personal reward level 3 (since you need to finish the second level at least).

ozma.3498:

I do. We are having something taken away from us, so it’s only fair to get something back. ArenaNet did this for PvPers when they removed the qualifying points system and introduced leaderboards – why shouldn’t they do it here? Most dedicated collectors will have missed out on those PvP titles.

PvP was all about competition and fighting for the top of the leaderboard, though. Fractals never encouraged that. You could have got all the fractal achievements and still be level 2, as far as official recognition goes.
Heh, we could even say they’re adding that competition part with the new patch.

I still think them putting those titles in pvp retroactively is wrong as well – albeit, i wasn’t following it at the time, so all i know about those titles is what i read on the wiki (that is, not much). But people there were fighting for the top by design, at least.

Perplexity? I would be more worried of the new rune they’re going to implement, if that ever happened.

Estriella Faerie.4029:

Manuhell.2759:

And isn’t your point of view selfish as well? You’re asking to retroactively reward something they never intended to reward just because you and some other spent a lot of time on it, after all.

With what I say, nobody lose anything, some people gain a bit.
With what you say, nobody gain anything, some people lose something.

And i’m the selfish one ? Jealousy knows no bound…

With what you say, many people lose anything, some people gain a reward they don’t deserve – because they were never intended to get a reward for it.
With what i say, nobody either loses or get anything. Because nothing was ever intended.
Yep, i’m not the selfish one here. And neither the jealous one – rather, this discussion is here due of people jealous of their fractal level.
And this isn’t necessarily bad – but feeling entitled to a reward for something that never gave one, and wanting it because they are removing the content that would give it, definitely is.

Estriella Faerie.4029:

So, what you’re saying is it’s better to not give any recognition to people who have put hundreds of hours playing fractals, because people who didn’t play fractals could be jealous of this recognition, saying they may have decided to go for it too had they known beforehand ?

Considering they never intended to give a reward based on fractal level and such a decision would come after said rewards aren’t obtainable anymore?
Then yes. It would be even more wrong than the current situation.

Estriella Faerie.4029:

Seems to me like those people you’re advocating for are playing only for the reward, and just because they may be jealous, we should get nothing when the level we dedicated hundreds of hours of playing is just being wiped out ? That’s quite a selfish point of view…

And isn’t your point of view selfish as well? You’re asking to retroactively reward something they never intended to reward just because you and some other spent a lot of time on it, after all.
Yet we haven’t even got achievements related to fractal level. One could farm the first two levels and get all the fractal achievements, if he wanted to.
You talk about jealousy, but isn’t this whole discussion stemming from people jealous of their fractal level and wanting to be recognized for something that was never intended to be a point of competition between players?

As i said above, the only right choice would have been either implementing those rewards several months ago – with large advance – and stating they would have been available for a limited time or do that now and postpone the content. But i don’t think either are feasible anymore. Arrived at this point, they just have to choose the least wrong option, that is also the one that will annoy less people. That is, giving nothing – neither to people with multiple chars, or people with an high fractal level.

Sure, i realize this must be annoying for you. But the alternative would be annoying for much more people, and they would be rightly annoyed as well.

Stupid ideas
-Trahearne comes, gets your chest instead of you along with the fractal level advancement
-all the enemies are quaggans (so you can’t distinguish between them)
-fractal tribulation mode – invisible traps everywhere (i would play this, though)
-moon gravity
More serious ones
-endurance regeneration halved
-single dodge (it consumes all the endurance bar)
-No dodge (have fun)
-All enemies reflect projectiles (say hello to engineers)
-Control skill don’t work
-Both players and enemies regen health
-Enemies skills are unblockable (say goodbye to projectile reflects)

Estriella Faerie.4029:

Like was said a few pages ago, what we’re asking is just some form of recognition for what we accomplished, in the form of a title for example.

I fail to see how that would affect negatively the rest of the community…

Be it a title, item or whatever, you are asking for a retroactive reward about something that won’t be available anymore and wasn’t even supposed to give rewards.
There aren’t even achievements related to fractal level, after all.

So the people that would have done it if there was an official and visible recognization (as in, a title) or some other rewards would probably be angry – and they would be right as well, cause adding rewards retroactively for content that isn’t available anymore is a terrible idea.

Basically, any solution right now will make angry someone – and they’ll probably just make less people angry as possible, thus not giving anything at all.

The right solution would have been implementing said titles or rewards with large advance and stating outright about the fractal changes and the removal of the old ones (and thus that said rewards weren’t available anymore after a certain period of time). So that people interested in the rewards could have done it.
But it can’t be done anymore, and neither they can postpone the content.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Manuhell.2759:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

There are tons of titles not available anymore. Your point?

Directed at manuhell

If you mean the living story ones – people knew in advance about said content getting removed.
Here we’re talking about rewarding content after it has been already removed.
Content that didn’t even give achievements for fractal levels, let alone titles.

But… Fractals is the original living story!

And it never had titles, or even achievements, related to personal fractal level. Also, it was never stated to be temporary content – quite the opposite, since they’ve been adding items with agony resistance over time. Sure, they’re changing them, but any achievement previously available will still be available even with the new fractals.
So why should they add rewards – be it titles or something else – without any notice, after removing the means to get them?

Lilith Ajit.6173:

There are tons of titles not available anymore. Your point?

Directed at manuhell

If you mean the living story ones – people knew in advance about said content getting removed. And knew already there were titles, so they were free to get them until the content lasted.
Here we’re talking about rewarding content after it has been already removed.
Content that didn’t even give achievements for fractal levels, let alone titles.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

So what’s the harm in trying now? There really isn’t a harm in asking. A lot of people keep saying losing the levels doesn’t harm anything, but neither does asking for a title or whatever, so that 3 years down the line those people will look at their title and say “yeah, I did that!”

Show a little love people!

And then some other people will see it and say "i was level X-1 and i couldn’t get that title because they introduced it once the content wasn’t available anymore and they never talked about rewards for our level anyway ".

It isn’t a matter of love – there just isn’t any feasible right choice, especially if we talk about giving titles or items that won’t be obtainable anymore later.

Any fair and right choice should have been taken either long ago – communicating to players with large advance about the fractal system change and telling about titles and items that wouldn’t be obtainable anymore – or would require them to postpone the patch for several months and doing the same thing described alone.

As things stand now, they are probably trying to make less people angry as possible.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

We are discussing what we think we can reasonable ask for in compensation for our lost levels. Also, I wouldn’t get any of the rewards. So, I’m trying to show compassion for my fellow fractal player.

Why exactly are you so against showing compassion and understand toward those people who are losing something they will miss?

Giving a reward for something that wasn’t supposed to give a reward to start with isn’t right as well. As it would be retroactive and unavailable anymore, since they would have removed the content it was given in.
There won’t be a choice that will make all happy. Someone will be enraged anyway, and they just chose to make less people unsatisfied as possible, based on same metric.

The only right choice arrived to this point isn’t feasible anymore: postpone the content for several months and officially announce that getting to level X gives the title A or the thing B so that people interested can get those well knowing they won’t be available anymore later.
But it won’t happen. They should have thought about it quite some time ago.

Patrikan Habaton.2548:

I played while QP were out they never announced to give Special titles to the ppl with most QP if I knew I would have farmed more Points ( It was easy to farm it just a matter of time as soon as you only played 1 map not 3 ) But I’m fine with it I wasn’t into pvp at that time I would have gotten the title if they announced it before they dind’t … whats your Problem with not having a fractal title?

As i said before, and at least three times, PvP is a competition.
People there were supposed to fight between themselves for a better ranking. The game itself was based on that.
Fractals never had a competitive side – at least one acknowledged ingame. Heh, there isn’t even a way to display your fractal level unless you bring someone alone at the entrance or inside fractals.
And as said before, they would have to put them retroactively, once the content isn’t available anymore. And that wouldn’t be right as well.
Basically, there isn’t a feasible choice that won’t enrage someone.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

I don’t really see how this is constructive. We are trying to give anet ideas, not give them more reasons to ignore us. Kindly be a little more positive, I like my thread and would like to see it continue.

Sorry, but i tend to expect the worst, i’m not exactly an optimist when it comes to human nature.
Still, the key point is that it would be a retroactive reward. Something like this should have been told far in advance. Especially since, unlike PvP, fractals weren’t an official competition (as i said, they want to make them a competition with the patch). And neither a race against the time – quite the opposite, infact, since we get ascended equip every now and then to further bolster agony resistance.

Patrikan Habaton.2548:

well but a rage out of jalousy you can ignore better than a rage out of stealing Things from Players without compensation. as for you souldbound would be an Option since fractal Levels were soulbound pvp ranks were not.. and I told in my post as well idc if they give lvl 0-30 titles as well . I would just think it’s nice if you can have all titles for that 1 char like the lvl 10, 20 , 30 , 40, 50 , 60 ,70 ,80… because sometimes the lower titles are cooler to wear:)

But as i said, fractals were never a competition between players – unlike pvp.
Some may have considered them so, but not the developers – until the next patch, at least.
While it isn’t right to remove progress, neither is right to give a prize for something that wasn’t supposed to give prizes out of the blue, after making it unavailable for everyone else.
Basically, there isn’t a right solution. There will be somebody unsatisfied either way.
And as metrics go, they’re probably going for the way that makes less people unsatisfied.

Moshari.8570:

Manuhell.2759 What do you suggest then?

Heh, the perfect way to deal with it should be informing the players there will be such titles or rewards and postpone the patch by several months to give the time for people interested to get them.
And i don’t exactly see it as feasible.

Moshari.8570:

That’s something…I still feel a title is not enough, but I think this could be something still implemented fairly easily in the time allotted.

ANET is big on not giving people certain advantages, which is why I think unique skins and titles go a long way…no advantages, but still gives credit to accomplishments done.

It probably would enrage even more people, especially since they would have to put them retroactively. Fractals weren’t even an actual official competition – unlike the example who proposed, that was about PvP paid tournaments.
Also, we have two separate situations – people with multiple levelled characters and people with high level characters. The soulbound title isn’t a solution – people would whine about it being soulbound unlike any other title.
We would have people who got multiple chars to late 20s arguing that they should get something as well, people who have got a char at 39 arguing that he couldn’t have know about the rewards and since he has got a char at 5 he deserve the 40 title as well and so on.
If they wanted to put an actual reward, they should have announced it far before the patch.
Doing otherwise is a sure way to see people rage.

Patrikan Habaton.2548:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYrtfwlZdeE

at min 3 you see an elemental at lvl 84 this one you can’t find on 50 so it doesn’t stop and I have evidence for it besides experience:)

Fine. But it still a code doing his work, using the fractal level as a variable to put there enemies. It would work the same even with putting 100 or 1000 – but that doesn’t mean people can go to those levels.

Patrikan Habaton.2548:

@manu if this was your Argument how the competition works than the Argument to take us away our scale 81 is invalid because it doens’t matter for the competition

you understand my Point?

As i said, this is only my idea – we should see how the leaderboard will work.
Still, if there is no level 81 – it stops at 50 now – surely they can’t leave you at a level that isn’t there anymore.
And probably they decided to reset to 30 cause the competitive aspect starts there, so whoever is below 30 will have to work to get to 30, and who was at least 30 can begin the competitive part.
And they probably didn’t see the fractals we had previously as a competition – officially it wasn’t one after all, whileas they’re recognizing the new fractal model as a competition and putting leaderboards.
But, again, these are just suppositions. Until they reveal how those leaderboards will work, we won’t even be able to understand the reason behind them.

Patrikan Habaton.2548:

so what if they said they never intended to let ppl have more than 30 Gold would you say hey take a screenshoot of your Money they never intended you to go there..

man this dungeon is designed till 80 with all Level scaling from Mobs and rewards from daily chests … so don’t tell we we’re never intended to go there it’s just not true…

WHY would anet design somthing if they don’t intend Players to go there?

The level scaling is part of the code – it works automatically. And according to some, it stops scaling to 50. But about that, i have no personal experience.
Also, players getting access to unintended content happens all the time. We even have a ceiling cat in Caduceus’ Manor that isn’t reachable by any normal means, as far as i know (i had read about it in a thread some months ago).

Patrikan Habaton.2548:

@manu

how can it be considered a competition if some start at 30 and some start at 0?
so the competition part doesn’t seem to be honest.. otherwise they would have reseted all to 0…

this would have been better for me since I would have understood it at least and I would have had more Support from all 0-30 guys that don’t care now:)

Dunno. We don’t have any information about the leaderboard, we just know there will be one.
Maybe it will take in account completition times of the single levels (since it would seem every single one of them over level 30 will have a different instability). Thus level 0-30 wouldn’t even matter for the competition.

Patrikan Habaton.2548:

Well only because they don’t announce it as a competition doens’t mean there was no competition. In fact there was a great competition it was just a competition not everybody saw. They should have announced it at least with the patchnotes… but besides about the Thing with the twinks I wrote it somwhere but can’t find it. You can just make the titles soulbound so only characters who have that Level get the title:)

Ehr, the post you’re mentioning is the post i was replying with with the post i linked above.

We’re entering in an infinite cycle.

Anyway, they probably didn’t intend for it to be a competition at the time. Exactly as people’s CoF speedruns or such things aren’t intended competitions – yet still happens.
Now they are adding leaderboards – so now they intend to make it into a competition, albeit using a completely different system (and that’s why they are resetting levels, at least according to their explanation).

So, well, they’re deleting something they didn’t mean as a competition and putting something they mean as a competition in its place.

I wonder what would happen if Kiel was removed and we had a new council member. One that got that place due to actual merit. One who protected Lion’s Arch and the whole world from the menace of Zhaitan.

Yes, i’m talking about Trahearne.

Oh, the rage that would ensue.

Patrikan Habaton.2548:

This is not true they had surely track of everything if they have not have they had us who asked about the hardcap on 80: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Fractals-cap-80/page/2#post3233760

this was 2-3 Months Prior the Patch with a softcap on 40 in January. There is no way they haven’t known about it or a way to prevent from going over 50 they knew it and look up the gamedesign it was made to get to 80

We engineers could have said the same about the trait Scope – that was broken since the start of the game. A lot of threads about non-working traits, and it was corrected only when it popped in a PvP discussion, a dev said it worked, and people showed him evidence it actually didn’t (and then they changed it completely, but that’s another matter).

Basically, i wouldn’t even be sure they were actually aware of that thread.
I agree that replying there from the beginning would have avoided a lot of problems.

Still, as things stand now, you can’t finish level 50. If they wanted people to progress over it, they wouldn’t have blocked players from finishing it.
Why they didn’t do anything about people who already progressed over it – like resetting them to 50, if they intended it to be the max level available at the time – i don’t know, and is something they should explain directly.

Patrikan Habaton.2548:

It woulnd’t have made it better if they deleted my Progress back than … you just don’t delete a Players Progress even if you have a reason you Need to give him a equaly rare compensation. They did it with the QP reset they can do it no.. How can they not just come up with it with the realese notes.?

About that, i already replied before.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/livingworld/fractured/Compensation-for-getting-reset-to-level-30/3244761

JMar.3254:

Manuhell.2759:

And it is a bad example to start with. You could say the same for every unintended behaviour.

But they DID add a hard cap at 80. So why not add it at 50 if that was the true cap?

It’s like if they added an invisble wall to the boat skip on the right side, but not the left side.

You would assume that you could still jump on the boat on the left, just not on the right.

As i said in the same post, i can’t explain why they didn’t directly do it. It seemed like the simplest solution to me as well.
The only way that would explain such a choice is that they didn’t think it was necessary – and they were terribly wrong about that.
Still, considering they blocked any way to finish level 50 later on, i would say they didn’t want people to progress over it.
They should have resetted levels over 50 to that level when they did it, and why they didn’t, as above, is something that i can’t understand.

Imho, they changed their ideas midway – maybe they intended people to progress over time, but seeing it didn’t work they would put artificial caps and remove those over time – and decided to implement these instabilities some months ago, scrapping the whole current scaling in the process.

JMar.3254:

If they didn’t intended to go past 50, why was there no hard cap at 50?

Because they didn’t think someone would have been able to go over 50, probably. They did the same mistake with Tequatl later- they were convinced people would have taken weeks to beat him.
And it is a bad example to start with. You could say the same for every unintended behaviour.
Why make me jump on that boat if i am not permitted to skip half map?
Why make me salvage snowflake jewels if i can’t profit from an endless cycle of salvaging and recreating them.
Why make me put these karma weapons in the forge if i can’t do it continuosly and getting one hundred precursors.
And so on.

Also, they did add a cap later – in the form of a sure way of killing of the character who tries doing it.

But yeah, if they just capped the fractal selection to 50, there wouldn’t have been problems. And i wonder too why they didn’t directly do that.

Patrikan Habaton.2548:

they could go a simple way as they did when they offended the pvp community with the QP affaire… just give titles now you may ask how would they give it fair: I’d say everyone is ok if they get titles for every new 10 lvls they achieved so for 40, 50, 60, 70,80 .. Now ppl may come and say it’s not alt friendly … easy solution make the titles Souldbound… only My ele can use the lvl 80 fractal legend nobody else… if they have multiple chars they can use it only on the char they aquired the old Level… it would be so easy… I’m not a designer and can come up with this idea in few seconds.

I wouldn’t compare this situation with the PvP one. There we were talking about an existing competition – people were fighting for the top.
Fractals never had that competitive component (and they’re introducing it now via leaderboards).
Also, they would be giving it retroactively – whereas something like this should have been announced quite in advance.

Also, there would still people whining cause they’ve got multiple chars at 26 and they don’t get anything, people who whine cause they’re level 39 and they get no title, people who may have multiple chars over 40 and so on. Not to talk about the whole issue with fractals 50+.
As i said, it would probably enrage even more people.

We should account for our rifle #1 being its only properly ranged skill (unlike warriors, whose rifle is a proper ranged weapon). And crack shot is also moved down to adept slot.
Also, while we do have many traits, they are designed to offer single effects to multiple weapons (often self-exclusionary between them).
For example, let’s take pistols. We have a trait to reduce recharge and one to pierce.
The warriors’ rifle mentioned above take it both with a single trait (and as said above, it is moved down to adept slot).

But due of how the class is designed – as in, the presence of kits – we’ve got quite a problem with the balance of skills.
The engineer should be balanced either when using just their main weapon, or when using multiple kits. This basically means that putting strong skills on a weapon makes the whole class unbalanced when using multiple kits, since people can cycle between them. And that’s also why our kits’ skills 2-5 usually have different effects, but not strictly burst skills – the flamethrower’s #2 skill is what i would call nearer to a burst skill, and see how it is the only one dealing damage in the whole kit, apart from the autoattack.
So in the end, the only skill that can have some damage is the autoattack, cause using one automatically excludes using the others, thus they can balance making it so we deal sustained damage, rather than bursts.

And while there are exceptions – static discharge is a burst build after all – they don’t depend on the kits skill themselves, but rather on the cooldown of the toolbelt; as they’re quite high in kits, a static discharge build with many of them doesn’t permit a good use of the trait.

TL;DR: we’re a mess to balance.

Patrikan Habaton.2548:

ok just remove the old fractals and let my reawrd Level stay this is basicaly what they did with the cele gear.. I woulnd’t care if they would do this.. but instead they delete my celestical gear and say craft a new one with the loss of mf:)

If we want to compare the two situation, considering the loss of the stat of the items is due of the change of the magic find stat, then they’re dealing with it exactly at the same way.
Magic find isn’t there anymore -> let’s remove it from celestials (and reset the other items cause they’re useless otherwise).
Old fractals aren’t there anymore -> let’s remove all the levels 30+ (since the new ones start at 30).

The logic applied in the two situation is basically the same.
One could dispute why they start at 30 (and thus why they resetted to 30) instead of some other level, and that would be perfectely fine. I admit that the leaderboard explanation doesn’t sound too convincing.
And imho they probably had some metric about the average fractal level and they had seen that the majority was around level 30, so they decided to put it as a starting point for the new content.

Still, if we must still talk about a compensation involved, the matter isn’t as simple as the magic find one. We’ve got far more different situations involved here. They should account for people with high fractal levels, people with high fractal levels that weren’t even intended by them, people with multiple char with levels over 30, or even people with char levelled over 30 and some other char with lesser levels.
I’m not surprised they just decided to not give anything. Any choice would have enraged someone else.

Actually, there was no compensation for celestial items. They just lost their magic find stat.

And no one cared about it.

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

The original difficulty and more can be found a higher scales.

Oh, we’re so dead.

By the way, please tell me there is still the voiceover for that phrase (it was told by Braham before battling with the Molten Berserker and Molten Firestorm).
It made me laugh everytime.

Red. And purple for the last world. It was already said by a dev in one of the threads in the second SAB living story forum.
More than seeing the vendor again, i would rather hope they’ll leave SAB ingame when they have finished making it.
Especially since SAB tribulation weapons are the only weapons in the game that really prove effort and mastery (of jumping puzzles). We can’t say that even for legendaries, as they can be bought with money.

I wouldn’t say it is for them being heavy classes.
Rather, guardians offer superior area support, projectile reflection and aegis. Both of the latter ones directly negate the damage, indipendently of how much it is – thus they work the same on higher levels as well.
And warriors have got a rather good damage both in melee and range, and burst damage on top of it (and as enemies hit more hard when levels increase, it is much preferred over sustained damage, who would put you at a constant risk).

Hello. I would like to request a review for the ticket #91550.

To be brief, talking about closed exploits was never proibhited (see: arah boat, snowflake jewels salvaging or everytime people talk about the precursors gained by karma weapons long ago).
And as the content i’m talking about required an exploit, and isn’t available anymore (said exploits were closed months ago and players can’t win that encounter with normal means), stating that said content required an exploit or the help of someone who exploited isn’t an accusation, but rather stating the obvious.

Thanks in advance.

Nike.2631:

Manuhell.2759:

And what exactly the rune of the guardian has to do with this matter?

Its another Rune that works for 7 out of 8 classes? Its one of many examples that Runes ARE NOT required to work for all classes or even most of them?

Except that rune
1)Caters primarily to a specific class – guardian. It is in the name of the rune itself.
2)Isn’t an endgame reward like the one they’re introducing.

And we don’t even know if said rune will be soulbound or not like any other dungeon rune – something that would make it completely useless if found by an engineer.

Oh, and i still see no argument versus why they couldn’t have made it work with either gadget or elixirs – thus making this endgame reward usable by any class.

And what exactly the rune of the guardian has to do with this matter?
(not that the rune of engineer mattered as well, anyway – it was quite a bad analogy after all, since it is quite obvious that runes named after classes cater to those classes).
We were talking of a rune given as an endgame reward, here. Not just some random rune named after some class.

Also, i still wonder why people are still ignoring that all that was needed to make it work for engineers as well was to trigger it with either gadgets or elixirs.

This still doesn’t explain why you plainly excluded the engineer from the 6th bonus.
It could have worked with either elixirs or gadgets, for example.
And the last ones especially would have seen some good use from such a bonus.

We’re talking about an endgame reward, after all. You’re making one of those completely useless for a class.
A class that, by the way, isn’t even one of the most played – quite the opposite, infact.
And giving further motives not to play it doesn’t seem exactly a good move to me.

Hey, if you hate her so much, you should be happy to be able to maul her every now and then.

Personally, i actually liked that boss fight. We just have to see if, and how much, it was changed.

And this is a reward for endgame content anyway, not just a random rune.
Leaving out a single class of said reward makes no sense.

I will laugh if the thaumanova reactor’s fallout is caused by the player characters themselves.
Then we can give all the blame to Kiel and demand her resignation.
So that a true hero of the people can protect us in the council – like Evon would do.