So what runes/food were you using just as a question of curiosity?
I was running 2/6/0/6/0 (Attack of opportunity does as much as slashing power and I like to spam my F for more fury)
Privateer runes, Birthday cake.
WvW bonus to max health was 7% at the time too.
You know it is perfectly fine for people to want a fast run. What I don’t like is how the more toxic people seem to congregate into these LFGs.
So I join a group as a full-zerker war (it’s my alt set but still all exotics. Only half the trinkets are ascended) running a phalanx strength build. So I am getting psyched to pump out 25 stacks of might to the party when someone goes:
“Are you zerk?”
I reply, “yes”
“Good bye you lied to me. Zerk wars don’t have 25K health.”
And then I was kicked. I blocked that person and then ran another path.
Still annoying though.
If you played GW1, tier 10 titles were extremely grindy.
I never needed more than r5 or r6 to do content.
They’re not all that different. The only difference is that the new vertical grind will not invalidate previous progress.
What about a large Great Shield that you have to two-hand?
2. Better AI is still AI. Every system can and will be mastered. New AI would catch good players off guard for a small period of time, but then through repetition we would solve it and defeat it with the same ease we do now
In the world of AI, we would call that bad AI.
Celestial is almost 30% worse dps than berserker in pve.
That is not too bad. It’ll be interesting to see if the new content rewards the additional tankyness better than the faster clear.
You don’t get it.
All of the content in this game – people struggled with at first because they didn’t know how to do it. It’s been over 2 years since and we know all of the attack patterns, all of the locations that mobs spawn, the exact behaviors of them. That is why we don’t need to run around with tank stats.
Good players learn, adapt and improve. If you remain in celestial gear, you’re not a good player. You’re stubborn and narrowminded for thinking that berserker suddenly won’t be the best set to use anymore. It’s by design the best set to use as long as the enemy can be crit.
The only possible way that berserker won’t be the best is if the enemy in question can’t be crit, and even then the best option would be soldiers, not celestial.
No matter what way you look at it, celestial is bad in PvE. There’s no use arguing otherwise.
I don’t see where poor game design is not something that could change in the new expansion.
Less predictable dump AI would kill zerker. That is why zerker is not the meta in PvP.
Celestial is almost 30% worse dps than berserker in pve.
That is not too bad. It’ll be interesting to see if the new content rewards the additional tankyness better than the faster clear.
I recant. Pumping tons of vulnerability on the mobs while giving 25 stacks of might to allies makes it WAY easier to carry a party.
Now I am interested to see how the numbers look with celestial stats hmmmm.
Celestial… on a warrior… in dungeons…
Pls no.
I sense doubt.
Celestial is not all that tanky. 4/7 of your stats are devoted to damage. You actually have more raw stat points devoted to damage than zerker. Power precision ferocity just combos better than power precision ferocity condition damage. That and power is the most important damage stat.
I’ve been practicing it because I feel like the Mordrem’s AOE condi spam plus tough bark is going to break the zerker meta.
More raw stats? Full ascended zerker give you 1087 power + 745 precision + 745 ferocity for a total of 2577pts in dmg. Celestial give you 499pts in power, precision, ferocity and condition. 4 × 499 = 1996pts. Last time I checked 2577 is higher than 1996.
Celestial is tankier than zerker so you have more place for error. Tankier doesn’t mean full tank, its just mean that you have more defensive points and that your situation.
Oops I didn’t add the other 745 pfff (thought my math was off)
Still that is 77.45% as much damage stats.
(edited by Marthkus.4615)
Oddly enough my shoulders get really tired from all the zerks who are so good at the game that they wall stack and can’t dodge.
That’s not Oddly. Bad players are bad whatever their build is. Tanky build like you run is just more forgiving for bad player (not saying you are a bad player here). Your build is safe, but don’t bring much to the team other than that. Its not a bad thing if you like that, but i prefer challenge myself, this game isn’t that challenging to begin with (its 2 years old content after all).
Celestial is not all that tanky. 4/7 of your stats are devoted to damage. You actually have more raw stat points devoted to damage than zerker. Power precision ferocity just combos better than power precision ferocity condition damage. That and power is the most important damage stat.
I’ve been practicing it because I feel like the Mordrem’s AOE condi spam plus tough bark is going to break the zerker meta.
The PvE zerker meta is basically just DPS. It is still the holy trinity just without the tank and healer.
This is plain and simple lying. Don’t know if this statement is given on purpose ar is just a lack of knowledge.
PvE meta currently is based on dps GEAR and support/control/dps BUILD. Most professions are traited more towards party support and control than dps. Go play dungeon with only dps traits and skills I want to see this.
You clearly aren’t familiar with WoW DPS. Negating damage is something you are expected to do. GW2 having slightly different methods of doing that doesn’t mean Zerk builds are not just WoW DPSers.
I don’t run banners or zerker at the moment.
I join speedruns pug groups and we do just fine.
I don’t join groups that ask for zerker because I am not zerker.I still run into mainly war groups for PvE.
You’re a real asset. You bring low personal dps and no party buffs. What does being carried feel like?
Oddly enough my shoulders get really tired from all the zerks who are so good at the game that they wall stack and can’t dodge.
I don’t run banners or zerker at the moment.
I join speedruns pug groups and we do just fine.
I don’t join groups that ask for zerker because I am not zerker.
I still run into mainly war groups for PvE.
Well, GW’s soft trinity is brilliant in that regard, and should have been adopted for GW2. Everyone being a one-man-army just doesn’t fly with me at all.
GW2 actually uses a similar system. My celestial sword and board build does good damage, is tanky, and is close. Most of the hits go my way in fights.
I get what OP is saying. The PvE zerker meta is basically just DPS. It is still the holy trinity just without the tank and healer. It doesn’t make GW2 all that different from WoW and others.
My suggestion?
Just don’t follow the zerker meta and watch everything be more interesting and enjoyable at the small price of taking about 30% longer.
The Might nerf kind of ruined celestial Warrior in WvW but overall IMO Warrior is in a good spot, sort of a “Mario” class that’s not the best at a few things but instead is just good at everything.
I wouldn’t say it ruined the celestial war in WvW.
A slight damage increase
It’s an issue because the presence of players in the event area scales the event up. If enough players are AFK (not contributing), the event can become impossible to complete.
And if I am on the map but not helping the main event?
Wouldn’t that be the same thing?
I run celestial so my birthday blaster cake is the food I want to use.
I do not see why the AFKing is an issue.
Masteries seem like a way to throw in grind and traditional MMO vertical progression without negating previous progress.
I don’t mind.
So we are talking about PvE celestial greatsword builds now. Sweet.
I’ve seen some people post how they like that build. I have yet to try GS celestial war yet.
understand the inherent advantage that classes who have Ferocity and Precision in the same traitline have from a design perspective.
Holy kitten someone made an actual point instead of just making groundless assertions and hyperbowel.
It is strange that the power and precision paths both have CD boosters instead of ferocity.
That being said my ferocity sits at 190% on a celestial build. I don’t remember my zerk numbers off the top of my head.
DPS is not everything.
Warriors still hit like a truck.
Your comment is so controversy…
DPS is not everything, yet you still throwing argument like warrior still hit like a truck
first of all, warrior hit like wet noodle
second of all, that’s only PvE side of things.
while in PvP it’s completely a different thing, as you said, DPS is not everything. warrior lacks in other things.
DPS is not everything. This is true.
Regardless of that warriors still hit really hard.
To you wet noodle and truck must be the same thing. If it is not, then provide actual evidence to your claims.
What “other things” are you referring too? That can mean anything. I can’t deny that claim because “some other things” warriors most certainly lack something.
People keep calling warriors bad with zero evidence or logical reasoning.
and tbh do you even read the forums?
Yes. This statement is address to the bulk of QQing that has no basis in fact.
“That one build that I think is the only possible build to play got nerfed a little. Warrior must be DEAD!”
You just proved that you don’t read and don’t understand what “bad” means so no point in furthering the conversation as your warrior and game experience is so little to understand.
really, as a celestial war with sword/shield set up, i doubt you have any decent accomplishment nor exp in this game to be commenting on sensitive subjects like this.
So do you try to make points or do you just string words together and hope that something rational is the result?
I understand that you were trying to insult me but it came across with the eloquence of " doody-head".
People keep calling warriors bad with zero evidence or logical reasoning.
and tbh do you even read the forums?
Yes. This statement is address to the bulk of QQing that has no basis in fact.
“That one build that I think is the only possible build to play got nerfed a little. Warrior must be DEAD!”
People keep calling warriors bad with zero evidence or logical reasoning.
Make slashing power 15% then. I don’t care how you get there, but warriors need a 5% boost to their personal DPS.
Why?
It’s bad form to ask a question of someone before answering the question they asked you. But I will anyway, despite your rude behavior.
Warrior pve DPS was nerfed by about 2.5% in the September feature patch. If you count the change to Berserker’s Power / adrenaline decay the nerf was significantly bigger in short fights. Warrior DPS went from slightly above average to slightly below average. All the changes were based on PvP considerations, and thus the nerfs for PvE are undeserved. Heck, even the pvp nerfs were undeserved. Generally you nerf things that are too good and dont nerf things that aren’t good at all.
I main a war. We totally deserved a PvE nerf.
I love the adrenaline decay. It encourages actually using adrenaline and makes the “if X adrenaline get Y bonus” abilities less useful.
Make slashing power 15% then. I don’t care how you get there, but warriors need a 5% boost to their personal DPS.
Why?
DPS is everything.
In PvE.
Not even.
Dodge is more important and warriors get a signet of stamina and other endurance refills.
DPS is not everything.
Warriors still hit like a truck.
FG buff?
Why? It is already too good.
People who make all these assertions should actually try different builds out in different areas.
Oh “kitten” is a censor word.
I have been deeply confused by its use.
Zerk is not actually best in all situations and all PvE content. People just try to force it to be.
Zerk is sometimes not even the best DPS. I’ve witness more balanced builds face-tank the small hits and dodge the big hits, while the zerk build had to dodge all the hits. The player actually attacking the mob was doing more damage.
You see the pug-group wall-stack meta and other exploits in dungeons because they are trying to force zerk to work where it is not the best.
Oh man is that why I haven’t noticed PvP problems.
Who knew cleansing ire and LB was meta?
I also run celestial. Is that meta too?
There is nothing wrong with zerker gears.
As long as they remove the whole stacking thing , this game is fine as it is.PS: you have no idea how hard mai trin gets when zerker players insist on wearing zerker but can’t dodge any single skill shots.
I second this.
One of the big drives of this game is cosmetic improvements. Stacking is ugly. I didn’t put in all this time to look good to have most of my character covered up through ally clipping during combat.
I love watching the “I am better at this game then you because I wear Zerk” fail at fighting Mai trin. Sorry, I’ll take the more “nooby” allies that will actually get it done.
Of note: I rarely see zerker-only for fractals in LFG. Far less than I see for arah or anything else.
I’m not super great in PvP but I tried out Sword Shield / LB
A cripple lunge, A stun lunge, Immobilized F skill, LB cripple. I don’t have trouble hitting people.
So… is warrior worthless now and not worth rolling for a new player?
Buddy is a big WvW player. His main is guardian. He rolled up a warrior and is having a blast.
People QQ because their precious pug wall-stacking zerker keeps getting nerfed.
Zerk player does not mean good. Most of the zerk players I have ran into do not know how to dodge. They just know the pug stacking tactics.
This is mainly because of the zerk meta. Way to many people think they are good because they wear zerk and know where to wall stack.
The problem is when the guy that started the instance start to ask ppl to pings and then ppl don’t do it and then ppl start to kick and bla bla bla. Mainly the reason why i never ask for zerk meta in a pug, that’s just awful.
This always baffles my mind.
The only reason to zerk is for speed. If you burn time witch-hunting the non-zerks, you lose that edge.
Just a note: Even when in full zerk, I will not ping you my gear. I am going to block you then leave your party.
stacking doesn’t mean one single spot, it means being in a 360 radius circle to share boons. As some people melee most of the time the center of the circle is the boss…..
That is not how the term stacking is used in the game.
You can pretend that that is what people are asking you to do in pug groups, but that is a good way to get yourself kicked.
Stacking is everyone standing on top of each other by a wall or corner, not moving.
It should never work in any situation. It looks ridiculous. I cannot even tell you the number of times people have been like, “Oh what is that game” then see the stacking meta and say, “Wow, I don’t want any of that”.
I have to agree with them. I don’t want to stack, but I want to run dungeons. And no you can’t just start your own group because very few people can be bothered not to stack.
There are lots of places around a boss.
Anet could also just add collision mechanics that prevent you from standing on people.
While I barely use berserker gear nor have I a clear idea of the Meta build, I do stack in many occasion to share boons with my groups. Basically your suggestion will strongly affect my average level casual gameplay…..
Good.
Honestly the stacking meta is more of a problem for me than the zerker meta.
So much of the content gets ruined by stacking.
Some sort of anti-stack measure would destroy every noob-zerk pug group out there.
Most the zerks I see that stack in pug groups do not know how to dodge. They should not be able to get away with that.
Can you explain a bit more your point? Naively I would think that stacking under a boss makes the entire group directly in the range of the things they have to dodge… so if those you describe are bad at dodging they are then more exposed while stacked no?
Here are the situations I see
1) Boss goes down before it can kill even zerkers
2) Enemies like kohler spawn adds that go down regularly enough so that zerkers do not even have to dodge the spin. Even if they go down, they just get right back up again.
3) Boon poop, Aegis/reflection spam negating all the damage without having to dodge.I see dodges in zerker groups in crucible of eternity against the alpha subject AOE, In arah, and higher level fractals.
Aside from those situations, I do not see zerkers dodge. Heck, when I run zerker I do not need to dodge or even click my negate damage stances.
Stacking is fast, but I think it should be an awful idea. In practice it is only bad for non-80, non-zerk groups who don’t DPS fast enough.
This goes right back to what I keep saying in every one of these threads. They need to address scaling. Like you said, CoE, Arah, Fractals… the level 80 content that people regularly do, bet people are dodging in HoTW too.
AC though, hell no, why? Why dodge when I can kill things so fast that they can’t even attack back?
They need to address how the scaling damage works and prevent us from instantly killing these things, at least not without having perfect coordination.
Difference between needing zero dodge and having to dodge maybe 10 times per arah path is not huge.
My quick suggestion.
For every ally you share space with, increase the damage multiplier by one. That way 5 man stacks take 5x damage.
If the zerk meta didn’t stack, I would have far less problems with it.
Some sort of anti-stack measure would destroy every noob-zerk pug group out there.
Most the zerks I see that stack in pug groups do not know how to dodge. They should not be able to get away with that.
Can you explain a bit more your point? Naively I would think that stacking under a boss makes the entire group directly in the range of the things they have to dodge… so if those you describe are bad at dodging they are then more exposed while stacked no?
Here are the situations I see
1) Boss goes down before it can kill even zerkers
2) Enemies like kohler spawn adds that go down regularly enough so that zerkers do not even have to dodge the spin. Even if they go down, they just get right back up again.
3) Boon poop, Aegis/reflection spam negating all the damage without having to dodge.
I see dodges in zerker groups in crucible of eternity against the alpha subject AOE, In arah, and higher level fractals.
Aside from those situations, I do not see zerkers dodge. Heck, when I run zerker I do not need to dodge or even click my negate damage stances.
Stacking is fast, but I think it should be an awful idea. In practice it is only bad for non-80, non-zerk groups who don’t DPS fast enough.
Some sort of anti-stack measure would destroy every noob-zerk pug group out there.
Most the zerks I see that stack in pug groups do not know how to dodge. They should not be able to get away with that.
How well you dodge and how tight your DPS rotations are has everything to do with your play skill and nothing to do with your passive stats.
If this was true then there would be no zerker meta because people would do the same DPS regardless of gear.
The issue is that players can have equal defenses regardless of gear through the non relation between stats and dodge.