Guild Wars 2

Klaeljanus.7695:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

There is also a set priority for transfers.

Blind > Weakness, poison, torment, burn, confusion, chill, cripple, vuln > bleed.

I haven’t worked out the other conditions yet but bleed is definately the bottom of the list. If you have more than 3 conditions on you then your self bleeds will stay. If someone else knows the priority on the other conditions feel free to say so.

So I’m not alone here. They said random on the big June patch but it always takes blind and always leaves bleed, like they didn’t actually get around to implementing it.

Blind would go anyways because the skill has to hit.

Vydahr.4285:

Personally, I run Soldier gear and Brawler/Fighter(pvp) runes. Granted, the runes are a bit unfulfilling, granting only 3 stacks of might for ten seconds when you use your heal, but a little extra oomph when presumably more of your skills are on cooldown is relatively helpful. Also, Brawler runes are the only ones that have Power and Toughness, at least with Power primary. So both play well into a tanky necro power build. While I don’t have crit chance except in shroud, I will say that I can get up to about 3k power in shroud (max bloodlust, plus the DM trait) so it’s very hard to take down, but still deals enough damage to cut down an enemy (or 2, sometimes) in a 2v1, depending on the classes and builds. With 28k hp and 22k lf, with 2888 armor, it can take a few hits

I run this build. It can bunk quite well.

I suffer in winning 1v2+ because I just get chained CC’d. Which prevent my damage from surpassing their healing unless they have pure glass builds.

In team-fights where I can get a skill off, I do significant damage. In team fights where I get focused, we usually win those cause focusing the tank is dumb.

Longbow can now proc berserker’s might. This is more useful to me than Rampage.

Idea!

Overhealing: If you heal over your max HP you get a multiplicative damage buff. This would turn something like Water Ele into a team DPS support.

Zenith.7301:

Did a fractal just now, lv50 with a guardian who came in using a staff. I tell him to switch out of that crap.

Promptly ignored the whole run, spends the whole run autoattacking with his guardian’s staff.

Guess who the game chose to give an ascended chest to while everybody else got nothing/rings?

That’s why I hate their lying devs and the bait and switch they did from dungeons, retiring the token system and putting RNG in its place.

I really hope he just AA because you gave him kitten and then RNJesus rewarded his passive aggression with a chest.

I run PvT necro. Having both armor and power over 3K is very nice. Necro’s have crap healing power scaling so Pvt is one of the tank-y-est possible builds for it while at the same time my necro out DPS’s any other char I try to run soldiers.

I believe celi is more meta. Zerk is always meta in PvE because the meta does not care about anything that isn’t damage and seems to be focused around brain-dead easy 3-year-old dungeon content.

PvP can be annoying for me. Less stats in that mode. I hate CC spam, it makes 2v1 nearly impossible against competent opponents, but you can bunk like a mofo and you do enough damage that ppl tend to fight you for longer than they should. If I 2v1 at far for 2-3 minutes then the match is basically won.

Amicable Pugs.4503:

You guys do realize air sigils bugged right? ICD is 5s instead of 3

Yep! The major sigil of Air does the same damage at the fraction of the price. You can also use both at the same time because they are bugged to do their cool downs separately.

Venoms are that thing you use in dungeons right?

Exos.3472:

Marthkus.4615:

Exos.3472:

So yeah. Necros shouldn’t be allowed in content were they can screw us up.

Your party wiped on lupi and the necro finished it off for you thus screwing up the run?

Why don’t rest of you be less bad? With the necro there you steal health on hit and don’t bleed out. You get 150-450 bonus healing power which should go a long way on all your zerk builds. For content that you could solo, that is a huge buff.

And you say all this while bringing a thief who only brings stealth for runs. A job better done by a mesmer. At least necros can stack vulnerability.

This is an interesting point.

Which is worse ? A high-risk, high-return dps class that cannot stand his ground but still manages to put a dent on the ennemy. Or a safe, three wheeled survivable class that stays along dealing laughable amount of damage ?

While you may think the first one is bad, the latter is selfish and asking to be carried with no intention towards progress. The necro was not better than us, he just had more health to soak the attacks.

So yes, the necro screwed up badly by wasting everyone’s time. If we had all wiped, wp then engaged Lupi we would have finished him in the same amount of time, or even less. The only reason we wiped was because he claimed his wells could block projectiles (a stupid thing i know, but people running arah are scarce and we had already 4 manned the dungeon till lupi… and we were curious).

The only valuable thing he may bring is the protection from wells and the vampiric aura. Neither are actually noticible since a guardian will offer same the same and more diversed buffs while retaining better dps. Vulnerability ? In a group of eles and a warrior this is not needed. You have missed my point. In the current setting dps was not the issue, but the defensive support. And necro having nothing consistent just killed the eles.

And if i’m not mistaken, a mesmer run requires him to stealth through the content solo and then use a portal for his party. I cannot expect such things in a pug environement, wich is relevant to the problem at hand (you should not be kicked from a guild party, else you should strongly consider another one).

Can necros out deeps a thief? No. But they can still do plenty of dps (since patch).

When it comes to party utility the thief brings nothing unique. The guard can blind/block. The mesmer can stealth/portal/reflect/blind/ect. Even the necromancer can have his dark fields combo’d on to blind. (mesmer mass stealth is pretty strong right now)

Selfish classes? I hand that title out to thieves, even rangers bring more unique buffs.

EDIT: Well thieves can bring spammable blast finishers. That counts for something I guess.

Exos.3472:

So yeah. Necros shouldn’t be allowed in content were they can screw us up.

Your party wiped on lupi and the necro finished it off for you thus screwing up the run?

Why don’t rest of you be less bad? With the necro there you steal health on hit and don’t bleed out. You get 150-450 bonus healing power which should go a long way on all your zerk builds. For content that you could solo, that is a huge buff.

And you say all this while bringing a thief who only brings stealth for runs. A job better done by a mesmer. At least necros can stack vulnerability.

Might stacking for days…

Rentapest.6503:

Condi’s need a HUGE nerf in WvW situations. We don’t have 1million HP to cope with the insane bleeds, burns, torment, poison, confusion etc that can be applied before you can even hit a cleanse skill.

And even IF you manage to get a few cleansed, they’re instantly reapplied! Why don’t you just get us to stand still and do nothing while being killed, because that’s basically what I do as a Ranger these days.

I can’t shoot my way out, everythings reflected back at me + retalliation + conditions. GG at this so-called “balance”.

Once a condition is removed, you should be immune to conditions for 30seconds at least. And “piercing arrows” should cut through blocks and a percentage of Toughness! That’d balance Longbow dps in WvW.

build less glass

Dinks.2478:

runeblade.7514:

Dinks.2478:

runeblade.7514:

Dinks.2478:

runeblade.7514:

It is simple, just join with whatever gear you want in any group. You don’t need to wear zerk gear at all even if they ask for it.

I joined many “ZERK ONLY” groups, wearing nothing but soldier gear.100% of the time, The run goes fine.

That is incredibly rude. You expect others to respect the way you want to play but have no respect for other gamers or the way they want to play. So instead of joining a casual group you join a zerker only group without zerker and not only slow down their run but make it harder for them because one person not in zerker can cause a zerker player to be hit more often.

I expect the run to go fine. And it does, 100% of the time whenever I feel like wearing my soldier gear.

I don’t join casual groups because the run is never 100% fine. Usually, it is 40% that is fine.

It might go 100% fine but it definitely got slower and you definitely got carried even if just a little compared to everybody else. If I ever see you in my group its auto-kick for you. People like you are ridiculous. The same type who would cry if you were trying to sPvP or WvW and I kept joining your team with no armor on.

Except, I don’t cry about the zerker meta bullies. I embrace it.

This is more like other spvpers and WvWers cry at me because I play a non-meta build and they die a lot, so then they blame me.

You embrace it by ruining the game for other people. So basically you’re a rude jerk.
The irony and hypocrisy of screwing over other people who want to play their own way so that you can play your own way is just painful. This thread is going nowhere because it is full of self-righteous jerks like yourself who feel that because they “play how they want” it justifies kittenting on the playstyles of other people. Setting LFG requirements is acceptable, ignoring them and ruining the groups of those people is not.

How is his play-style not as acceptable as the elitist? Both are “play as you want”.

Do you find something morally wrong with his playstyle? Whats the difference between him ruining a group run and other ruining the run of an individual? People can ban classes, but people can’t join whatever LFG they feel like?

Is his behavior reprehensible to you because you find it offensive?

Surely if ANET disliked his behavior they would have set up the LFG to prevent it.

Jerus.4350:

Marthkus.4615:

Jerus.4350:

Yup, you tolerate. It’s pretty easy, you give them no credit. Call me whatever you want, but I simply won’t care. Tolerating doesn’t mean you care about what people say, it simply means you don’t go out of your way against it. Morality is not universal, people have different opinions on it. I accept them all, doesn’t mean I agree with them all, it just means I can live my life without concerning myself with them. It’s really quite easy.

Let’s say no one in GW2 tolerated playing with you for some reason. Let’s say everyone blocked you/auto-kicked. Let’s say ANET even banned you from the game.

Thoughts on how you would handle that?

Ok, now let’s say every MMO treated you the same way. How would you handle that?

Now what if Steam refused to let you download or play games. What if consoles refused to accept your commands because the game devs refused to let you play. How would you handle that?

Saying you tolerate intolerance is really easy when the intolerance doesn’t personally effect you.

I’d read more books and watch more shows, listen to more music. Not a huge deal.

What if your democratic country past laws preventing you from doing those activities and had you monitored around the clock by special forces to prevent any form of breaking this law. What if it was illegal for anyone to interact with or provide any kind of service too you?

Still no complaints? Is the world’s intolerance of you still fine?

Seera.5916:

Why do you have an issue with meta players putting into their LFG that they wish to play with other meta players and kicking when players do not meet the requirement of being meta?.

Did I ever say that?
You assume I am arguing that people who say “play as you want” can critique “zerker-only” without being hypocritical because I support their view point.

I may merely be arguing a logic point because the WvW golem train bores me, and a flamely thread where people pretend excluding other players isn’t nearly as bad as the REAL exclusion being done to them by people not liking that they exclude other players isn’t immediately a good distraction.

Myself blocking people who ask for gear pings or AP requirements is because I dislike the distrust from gear pings for many reasons and I think anyone who believes AP is a measure of skill has a logical deficiency that would make for a displeasing playmate.

I also minored in philosophy, which really just means I like arguing.

EDIT: Mexican food is amazing. I’m glad your opinion about it is not wrong :P

You don’t select groups in WoW LFG. It makes a group and then puts you all in it. You just tell the LFG if you are tank/healer/dps.

You can’t do fract 50 without AR now. Agony is constantly applied as an environmental effect. Nor could you have ever pugged such a group.

Seera.5916:

And you haven’t answered my why question.

Why do you dislike Mexican food? The why questions you asked me make about as much sense. I have no idea what you are going on about.

Seera.5916:

Marthkus.4615:

Seera.5916:

Marthkus.4615:

Seera.5916:

Can a group of players who all wish to be healers complete all content in WoW? I don’t care how fast or slow it can be done. Just can it be done by skilled players?
Now can content be completed in GW2 by a group of players in all Clerics gear with support builds? Again, I don’t care how fast or slow it can be done. Just that it can be done by skilled players?

It’s not easy, but yes it is doable. People don’t normally do that stuff in WoW because it is harder.

It’s like how in GW2 you can solo Arah naked.

Which game has the most content that the average players with any variety of build combinations (form full meta to full non-meta) can complete given that they just have the average skill level? So they aren’t the top 1% that can solo Arah naked.

WoW.

Buddy of mine still plays it. Yes still Tank/dps/healer party comps but their LFG is automated and they made that tier of content fairly easy and in-no-way requires meta builds.

So can you LFG the current hardest content in WoW? in GW2?

You can’t LFG random PuG the hardest flavor of the dungeon, but you can run that dungeon on a lower difficulty.

I have never seen an anyone welcome fract 50 in GW2. At a bare minimum they require AR.

So the answer is no to both. You can’t LFG fract 50 in GW2 like the WoW LFG.

Seera.5916:

Marthkus.4615:

Seera.5916:

Can a group of players who all wish to be healers complete all content in WoW? I don’t care how fast or slow it can be done. Just can it be done by skilled players?
Now can content be completed in GW2 by a group of players in all Clerics gear with support builds? Again, I don’t care how fast or slow it can be done. Just that it can be done by skilled players?

It’s not easy, but yes it is doable. People don’t normally do that stuff in WoW because it is harder.

It’s like how in GW2 you can solo Arah naked.

Which game has the most content that the average players with any variety of build combinations (form full meta to full non-meta) can complete given that they just have the average skill level? So they aren’t the top 1% that can solo Arah naked.

WoW.

Buddy of mine still plays it. Yes still Tank/dps/healer party comps but their LFG is automated and they made that tier of content fairly easy and in-no-way requires meta builds.

NOTE: If you meant %content, then that might swing back towards GW2. Though between high level fractals and most people not having the dungeon master achievement, WoW still might win out. Since they introduced downscaling and thus all their old content is playable in a serious way with non top gear or meta comps.

Jerus.4350:

Yup, you tolerate. It’s pretty easy, you give them no credit. Call me whatever you want, but I simply won’t care. Tolerating doesn’t mean you care about what people say, it simply means you don’t go out of your way against it. Morality is not universal, people have different opinions on it. I accept them all, doesn’t mean I agree with them all, it just means I can live my life without concerning myself with them. It’s really quite easy.

Let’s say no one in GW2 tolerated playing with you for some reason. Let’s say everyone blocked you/auto-kicked. Let’s say ANET even banned you from the game.

Thoughts on how you would handle that?

Ok, now let’s say every MMO treated you the same way. How would you handle that?

Now what if Steam refused to let you download or play games. What if consoles refused to accept your commands because the game devs refused to let you play. How would you handle that?

Saying you tolerate intolerance is really easy when the intolerance doesn’t personally effect you.

Seera.5916:

Can a group of players who all wish to be healers complete all content in WoW? I don’t care how fast or slow it can be done. Just can it be done by skilled players?
Now can content be completed in GW2 by a group of players in all Clerics gear with support builds? Again, I don’t care how fast or slow it can be done. Just that it can be done by skilled players?

It’s not easy, but yes it is doable. People don’t normally do that stuff in WoW because it is harder.

It’s like how in GW2 you can solo Arah naked.

Jerus.4350:

All I can say is I completely disagree. You can promote tolerance without demonizing those who are intolerant.

Do you have an idea how that actually would work?

Suppose people started demonizing those who won’t demonize the intolerant. How would you tolerate that? Or would you just reject that view point.

#Golem rush really needs to end…

Seera.5916:

Marthkus.4615:

Seera.5916:

Marthkus.4615:

Dinks.2478:

Marthkus.4615:

Seera.5916:

Marthkus.4615:

Seera.5916:

How is it not hypocritical?

Since you addressed nothing in my post, I’ll assume you just didn’t read it.

I read it. You said it was not hypocritical for play how I want players to criticize zerker players.

I asked why not.

Now answer my question. Or should I assume you didn’t read my post?

The answer to that question was in my post.

*sigh

To repeat a different way:
“Play as you want” does not extend to social elements. If it did then WoW is “play as you want”. Can you play a WoW raid/dungeon without tanks or healers? Technically yes. But most follow a set meta and are therefore playing with like minded players and “playing as they want”. Since “play as you want” was meant to be a rebuttal of WoW style MMORPG then it is rather silly to interpret “play as you want” to include social elements, because if it did then “play as you want” means nothing at all.

“Play as you want” applies only to individual play styles. Not to who you want to play with. For “play as want” to mean anything, it means that you play with everyone.

I want to play with like-minded individuals. The key words being “want to play” which is equal to “play how you want”. My INDIVIDUAL way I want to play is with like-minded individuals who also have the same INDIVIDUAL way they want to play. So basically what I am saying is, play how you want means playing with certain people that you want to play with.

The way you define the term makes it meaningless and is clearly not what other people are talking about.
The way you run your character has nothing to do with how other people run their characters. “Play as you want” not “Play as we want”

That’s why zerker players put Zerk/meta, ping gear, X AP, etc. etc in their LFG’s. And why PHIW’s put anyone welcome/no skip/no stack/full clear. So that they can play how THEY want to play and not how someone else wants to play. Which is likely not how that someone else wants to play because a compromise will very very rarely completely please every party involved.

Your extending the concept too far. “no skip/no stack/full clear” is as much against “play as you want” as a “zerker/meta/move-as-stack”. Everyone can’t “play as you want” if people are trying to dictate how other players play.

My prediction with HoT is that challenging group play will be on a map, while challenging instanced content will be solo.

No, I’m not.

So the players who play zerk and wish to stack and skip are they not playing how they want to play? That someone is holding a gun to their head and forcing them to play that way?

I do not get why you have such an issue with players who do not want to play the way you want to play, labeling their LFG’s and enforcing their LFG’s so that they do not infringe on how others want to play. That they’re willing to wait to play how they want.

Explain how that is different than WoW gameplay. “Play as you want” was suppose to be: “See you can do this where you can’t in other popular MMOs”.

Seera.5916:

Marthkus.4615:

Dinks.2478:

Marthkus.4615:

Seera.5916:

Marthkus.4615:

Seera.5916:

How is it not hypocritical?

Since you addressed nothing in my post, I’ll assume you just didn’t read it.

I read it. You said it was not hypocritical for play how I want players to criticize zerker players.

I asked why not.

Now answer my question. Or should I assume you didn’t read my post?

The answer to that question was in my post.

*sigh

To repeat a different way:
“Play as you want” does not extend to social elements. If it did then WoW is “play as you want”. Can you play a WoW raid/dungeon without tanks or healers? Technically yes. But most follow a set meta and are therefore playing with like minded players and “playing as they want”. Since “play as you want” was meant to be a rebuttal of WoW style MMORPG then it is rather silly to interpret “play as you want” to include social elements, because if it did then “play as you want” means nothing at all.

“Play as you want” applies only to individual play styles. Not to who you want to play with. For “play as want” to mean anything, it means that you play with everyone.

I want to play with like-minded individuals. The key words being “want to play” which is equal to “play how you want”. My INDIVIDUAL way I want to play is with like-minded individuals who also have the same INDIVIDUAL way they want to play. So basically what I am saying is, play how you want means playing with certain people that you want to play with.

The way you define the term makes it meaningless and is clearly not what other people are talking about.
The way you run your character has nothing to do with how other people run their characters. “Play as you want” not “Play as we want”

That’s why zerker players put Zerk/meta, ping gear, X AP, etc. etc in their LFG’s. And why PHIW’s put anyone welcome/no skip/no stack/full clear. So that they can play how THEY want to play and not how someone else wants to play. Which is likely not how that someone else wants to play because a compromise will very very rarely completely please every party involved.

Your extending the concept too far. “no skip/no stack/full clear” is as much against “play as you want” as a “zerker/meta/move-as-stack”. Everyone can’t “play as you want” if people are trying to dictate how other players play.

My prediction with HoT is that challenging group play will be on a map, while challenging instanced content will be solo. EDIT: Aside from new fractals.

Seera.5916:

Is it really such a bad thing that people come up with ways to avoid the inevitable conflict if you try to force them to play together?

No not really. It’s probably why ANET has more or less abandoned their old dungeon content. Silver Waste farming is more efficient and does not exclude non-zerk players. That really only leaves competitive speed runs left for hardcore dungeon running, which excludes pugging.

Idk why people want to speed-run with pugs merely for the joy of speed-running. I guess badge grinding could be a reason? Surely that couldn’t sustain the scene we currently see? *shrugs

Dinks.2478:

Marthkus.4615:

Seera.5916:

Marthkus.4615:

Seera.5916:

How is it not hypocritical?

Since you addressed nothing in my post, I’ll assume you just didn’t read it.

I read it. You said it was not hypocritical for play how I want players to criticize zerker players.

I asked why not.

Now answer my question. Or should I assume you didn’t read my post?

The answer to that question was in my post.

*sigh

To repeat a different way:
“Play as you want” does not extend to social elements. If it did then WoW is “play as you want”. Can you play a WoW raid/dungeon without tanks or healers? Technically yes. But most follow a set meta and are therefore playing with like minded players and “playing as they want”. Since “play as you want” was meant to be a rebuttal of WoW style MMORPG then it is rather silly to interpret “play as you want” to include social elements, because if it did then “play as you want” means nothing at all.

“Play as you want” applies only to individual play styles. Not to who you want to play with. For “play as want” to mean anything, it means that you play with everyone.

I want to play with like-minded individuals. The key words being “want to play” which is equal to “play how you want”. My INDIVIDUAL way I want to play is with like-minded individuals who also have the same INDIVIDUAL way they want to play. So basically what I am saying is, play how you want means playing with certain people that you want to play with.

The way you define the term makes it meaningless and is clearly not what other people are talking about.
The way you run your character has nothing to do with how other people run their characters. “Play as you want” not “Play as we want”

Aerlen.5326:

“Start your own group”

Speed clearers can and do join casual/non-speed runs and force them into speed runs. It’s not as common as some are making it out to be but it does happen.

I was with a casual, first time SE group. The leader made it very clear she didn’t know the path and intended to watch all cut scenes. Two zerkers joined us and turned the run into a speed clear. Oh I hear you “kick them from the party and move on” – well no one did, probably because they weren’t abusive, but it was very frustrating to have a mellow run turned into RUSH RUSH HURRY HURRY NO CUT SCENES SKIP ALL MOBS STACK HERE. They left right after the last boss, no ‘thank you’, nothing.

So both sides can be guilty of not reading a LFG, sadly that’s the chance you take.

I started a “29” fractal lfg with my Zoja’s warrior. Some Necro joined, immediately decided he needed to roll swamp first, pulled Mossman into the water, and basically told everyone what to do.

No one asked for that. No one didn’t ask for that either. I was annoyed when he told everyone to do the re-logging trick on mai trin. Our poor elementalist bugged out and couldn’t get back in. I sent her 5g to hopefully make that experience suck less, but I also felt guilty for letting that Necromancer’s behavior go unchecked.

Seera.5916:

Marthkus.4615:

Seera.5916:

How is it not hypocritical?

Since you addressed nothing in my post, I’ll assume you just didn’t read it.

I read it. You said it was not hypocritical for play how I want players to criticize zerker players.

I asked why not.

Now answer my question. Or should I assume you didn’t read my post?

The answer to that question was in my post.

*sigh

To repeat a different way:
“Play as you want” does not extend to social elements. If it did then WoW is “play as you want”. Can you play a WoW raid/dungeon without tanks or healers? Technically yes. But most follow a set meta and are therefore playing with like minded players and “playing as they want”. Since “play as you want” was meant to be a rebuttal of WoW style MMORPG then it is rather silly to interpret “play as you want” to include social elements, because if it did then “play as you want” means nothing at all.

“Play as you want” applies only to individual play styles. Not to who you want to play with. For “play as want” to mean anything, it means that you play with everyone.

Seera.5916:

How is it not hypocritical?

Since you addressed nothing in my post, I’ll assume you just didn’t read it.

Jerus.4350:

Marthkus.4615:

It’s amazing seeing people wonder how others could possibly have trouble tolerating their intolerance of playing with certain players they deem inferior.

Really all I needed to read.

If you can’t tolerate intolerance you have no room to judge. Nothing is more bullkitten than forced tolerance.

To you other’s words:
Paradox of tolerance

“The paradox of tolerance” refers to the act of being intolerant of intolerance. It is a term generally used by opponents of pluralism to criticize advocates of toleration. The argument goes something like this:

1. Tolerance means accepting others with differing views/lifestyles/shoe sizes
2. Some people do not accept others with differing views/lifestyles/shoe sizes
3. Those people are intolerant
4. Not accepting intolerant people is itself intolerant
5. Therefore, tolerance is impossible

This argument may be fallacious . Here’s why: This assumes that totally uncritical tolerance is desirable. There’s a distinction between being tolerant and blind moral relativism, and it is perfectly reasonable to say that it is not desirable to be perfectly tolerant of every single thing. Extremism rarely bodes well for anybody.
Karl Popper explains:
“”Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them…We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant."

Dinks.2478:

If playing with like-minded people is how you want to play then by definition it is wrong to say people shouldn’t play with who they want to if you are a play how you want player.

That is true. Completely unrelated to what anyone is saying, but true.

Critiquing zerker-only groups with “play as you want” is not saying you want to play with like minded people. Heck OP opened with everyone should be forced to act according to “play as you want” regardless of their mind about the matter.

It’s amazing seeing people wonder how others could possibly have trouble tolerating their intolerance of playing with certain players they deem inferior.

Anyone who holds the maxim, “Anyone should play as they want.” does not have to accept “Players can play with only like minded players”. The first is talking about individual play styles not group dynamics. The latter is extending “play as you want” to social dynamics. Which is a ridiculous leap of logic. The whole “no holy trinity” “play as you want” ideal is that you will play with any player not that you are suppose to go around excluding players.

Does that make zerker only groups wrong? That point doesn’t. It just shows how “play as you want” advocates are not hypocritical when critiquing zerker-only groups. But since the vast majority of meta elitist in this thread would be offended by now, no one is reading this last bit and will just assume the above point is saying zerker groups are wrong and then they will try to attack that straw-man interpretation of the point.

DonQuack.9025:

Marthkus.4615:

Twinks

wow

Reference

SoulstitchMMO.1396:

Sometimes getting my dailies done while leveling can be impossible, because all the groups in the LFG tool are only looking for 80s, or you’re running with noobs so the entire dungeon takes very long.

Why is this a thing? Do dungeons need to be as difficult as they are?

Even though downscaling is harder now, running with pre-80s is fairly hard. Twinks can manage higher stats but the lack of traits and experience with the class makes dungeons harder.

I feel like ANET just doesn’t want new players to go into dungeons, getting turned off by dungeon running community. Once more and more level-80-only expacs come out everything pre-80 will basically be a tutorial.

DonQuack.9025:

Leave? For reals Leave?
come come now

If you want your special leet group then take the time to make it. If you want to pug then pug.

Hmmm a slight change is warranted. If you leave the instance, you can still rejoin your party. (Don’t want disconnects to mess with people)

I like the idea that if your party kicks someone from an instance you can’t fill that slot.

Another idea is that if you leave your party from an instance, your party can fill that slot but you are blocked from the path for a day. If you leave 3 paths in a day you would then be blocked from dungeons/fractals for a day.

Zerk only meta 8K+ AP groups could still set up their groups with lots of vetting, but the toxic behavior would be curbed.

For WvW, I’ve been running a Carrion D/D SB deception focused build with DA Tr and SA specs. I use krait runes for the extra bleed duration.

It’s working for me. Although players with 100% golem buff damage bug in WvW this week can still one-shot me.

VaaCrow.3076:

With this golem week event turning wvw into something horrible for the week, i’ve been on the forums alot more than usual, and I just wanted to thank you all for keeping me entertained as I read this wonderfull thread. 10/10 would read all of this again. Btw, (i think his name was marthakus or something) please block me i do not wish to ever be in the same group. lol.

My Gw2 experience is steadily improving.

Drew.4208:

After seeing Condition Thief nerfed into the ground

What? Venom share is almost PvE meta, and my WvW roaming build can get 4K in total condi ticks without the 36% duration food.

Condis can get food that increase condi duration by 40%. That boost their damage a lot more than zerk food boost zerkers.

Does that push them over the edge? idk.

Silvercyclone.1462:

Harper.4173:

Silvercyclone.1462:

I’m at the spot right now where all i need to finish my legendary is CoE runs but since I don’t use zerker nor do i feel comfortable using it it almost impossible to get a run. A week ago i was actually dropped from 10 parties in a row because i don’t have zerker or I wasn’t experiences. Now alot of ppl will tell me just to join a guild but lots of guilds do not want me since I cant play at a time when they do guild missions.

You were most likely kicked because you lack experience. My advice is to watch some youtube guides and try to improve.

Watching youtube does not make u experienced unless everything on the video is exactly how it is in the dungeon. Also i doubt its the experience since i got booted before we even entered the dungeon.

Of course watching youtube videos is not a solution.

Try starting your own LFGs. If that doesn’t work then you will have to just join zerker groups even if you don’t have the gear. They’ll get mad at you but it is partly there fault for making it impossible to run the dungeon unless you are zerker.

That’s a big IF. I’ve been in plenty of CoF runs that weren’t “zerker only”, but I play on American servers, it seems European servers take the meta more seriously.

Something a lot of us have to come to terms with is that we cannot control other players. We can’t control what they put in their lfg. We can’t control who joins our group. We can’t control who other people kick. We can’t control what other people say. We can’t control how other people play.

Does that mean LFG should be a random kitten-fest? Probably not. There can be order without control as long as mutual benefit comes about from the order. Do the zerker/meta/exp 8K+ AP groups benefit everyone else? No, all they do is inflate TP and gem price for everyone else. Do people who troll Zerker queue benefit everyone else? No, all we get there is spiteful meta-zerks trolling anyone welcomed groups and tons of other nonsense.

I don’t have a good answer to that dilemma. I can share some fun facts:
1. People can ping gear they don’t own.
2. Living story gave lots of AP while things like WvW or pure dungeon running give far less.
3. Many people have alt accounts that they dungeon on to get more dailies that will have less AP than their main one.
4. People can totally tell if you aren’t carrying your dps in a speedrun. Things can melt very fast.

Nyawk.7834:

Hello. I am an experienced mmorpg player and I’ve played all the big games so far. I’m new in GW2 (joined about 2 months ago) and so far I got 3 characters to lv80 and im working on another one atm. Unfortunately for me too the game is nothing close to fun, even though I got into it with so much excitement after all the comments and videos I’ve watched prior to purchasing. A couple of things that spoil the fun for me: the grindfest! its simply horrible and unrewarding (worst I’ve experienced in an mmo). Dungeon grouping! there is a general lack of direction when it comes to roles in a group environment and it tends to be very disappointing to new players who find themselves in a downed state all the time. It’s made me feel hopeless and helpless several times and that was even in the early dungeons where the game should be very forgiving. The world feels amazingly small and boring. The lore is plain boring for me, so much that I skip all cut scenes and dialogues. Crafting and gathering, also very dull (after playing ffxiv arr its going to be hard to find better or equal crafting/gathering). Gearing! From what I’ve seen so far (correct me if im wrong), gearing is horrible since basically you have two tiers of gear to choose from which is exotic and the upgrade, ascended. What I hate is that for example a karma berzerker exotic sword and a dungeon token exotic sword come with exactly the same stats and after that its all about different skins with no difference statwise. And finally I find ridiculous how the legendary weapon crafting concept works. You spend hundreds upon hundreds of gold and time to grind mats for a weapon with stats that are the same as an ascended weapon and all you truly get is a shiny skin I have played a bit WvW and it was also boring, basically all I did was follow a huge zerg in a map and capture bases and occasionally fought with enemy zergs in battles that werent remotely fun. I havent done any pvp yet so I dunno how that works. No healers, no tanks, no dps, everyone is everything and everyone has to take care of themselves. I understand anet wanted to try a new approach but for me this is not working good. Sure some classes can support the group with some abilities but it’s minimal. I havent felt once that feeling of “bonding” with my group, like you have my back and I have yours. It’s everyone for themselves. Anyway that’s how it has been for me so far, I hope the expansion will make it more interesting somehow. I wanted to get addicted to this game for many reasons..

Just some suggestions:
1. Just stop with dungeons. Fractals are newer and better for the most part. Go back to dungeons with guild mates.
2. Find a guild. Having people to play with and chat about game mechanics will pull you in better.
3. Try to open your mind. There are roles in dungeons. Sure everyone is DPS, but heals/stab/blinds/might/fury/stealth/portal/ect create a lot of roles for everyone. These roles extend into PvP and WvW where DPS stops being king.
4. Look into the combo fields and combo finishers. For some classes half of what they do is in that system,
5. Legendaries also rotate stats for free. Ascended gear is also a good goal. Both of those give you something to shoot for and care about accumulated wealth.
6. Try WvW with a guild in team speak or something like that. Zerker is not the go-to here but the game itself is very dynamic (except for this week). It’s also a good place to burn money just to help your server achieve glory. Upgrades, siege, commander tags, ect.

serenke.4806:

I understand that people like certain play styles and usually a group can carry one, two, sometimes three “play how i want” players. But generally the actually good players don’t mind because they might just not even feel a difference whether you are there or not (you are probably slowing them down). So you are not putting the blame where it belongs.

There seems to be an odd assumption that those critical of elitism are running non-meta builds or jumping into zerker pugs with nomads gear.

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

Marthkus.4615:

Behellagh.1468:

Then be clear in your LFG comment. Also if it take 50 minutes to run inefficiently when it takes 30 to run efficiently then spending more than 20 minutes vetting players is silly. It’s like cruising the parking lot for a close spot for your health club because the extra 50 yards to walk is so tiring.

Well too be fair. Arah path 4 takes like 1.5 hours in a good but non meta group. 40 minutes for a meta group, or well over 4 hours cycling through various people as attempts to “speed run” fail.

That leaves A LOT of time for vetting before negative returns.

EDIT: Interesting to see that some people are willing to admit that they are willing to take LONGER to finish a dungeon as long as they can exclude players.

If I’m not already, please add me to your block list.

Happy to oblige.

Behellagh.1468:

Then be clear in your LFG comment. Also if it take 50 minutes to run inefficiently when it takes 30 to run efficiently then spending more than 20 minutes vetting players is silly. It’s like cruising the parking lot for a close spot for your health club because the extra 50 yards to walk is so tiring.

Well too be fair. Arah path 4 takes like 1.5 hours in a good but non meta group. 40 minutes for a meta group, or well over 4 hours cycling through various people as attempts to “speed run” fail.

That leaves A LOT of time for vetting before negative returns.

EDIT: Interesting to see that some people are willing to admit that they are willing to take LONGER to finish a dungeon as long as they can exclude players.

Dinks.2478:

Tigaseye.2047:

Harper.4173:

Your elitist is a caricatured portrait of “The farmer”. The farmer is a part of the hardcore – as you said.
Highly efficient he enjoys earning rewards to buy new skins with and does everything in his power to get as much loot as possible.
Seeks out other players who want the same thing and excludes players that don’t since he doesn’t have time to mess around and since wasting time ruins his game experience.
Kicks certain classes because experience has shown they’re most of the times a liability (BB rangers) and kicks non-zerkers because he’s there for the fast farm not to role play or watch dungeon cutscenes.
Kicks you for being low AP because it’s not a teaching run and higher AP has a better chance of finding an experienced player. Not full proof but better.

This is exactly the type of player that Anet shouldn’t cater to.

Not only do they ruin the game for any other type of player that, probably normally accidentally, crosses their path; but they also make Anet next-to-no money, as they “earn” gold too fast to to ever need to buy gems.

Making Anet no money directly might be OK, if they made the other players they interacted with happier and more likely to stick with the game (and open their wallets); but when, in actual fact, the reverse is true…

So, thinking like a business person here, this is the type of player I would refuse to support, if I were them.

So you can play how you want but zerkers can’t? This is the most ridiculous thing I’ve read on here in weeks and I read the earlier argument in here that not inviting certain classes is the same thing as racism.

Weird… He didn’t say zerkers couldn’t play the way they wanted. And some people here are complaining about a lack of reading LFGs.

EDIT: Also odd saying " no x-class" is considered the same as just merely not inviting them. Not making everyone who reads the lfg as that class feel excluded…

Tigaseye.2047:

So, thinking like a business person here, this is the type of player I would refuse to support, if I were them.

That’s the sort of person that would slander your company with a passion. I think it would be better to try to mitigate their damages. Do things like:
1. not touch the content they farm for years at a time.
2. Slowly degrade glass defenses, improve AI, nerf damage.
3. Make sure most of the new content has lots of AOE damage and requires large groups to get max rewards.
4. Create ridiculous gold sinks for marginal benefits that you know the farmers will feel they must have.
5. Add ways to gamble all your wealth away.
6. Create a particular instance run that causes all crits you deal to hurt you.
7. Announce how new content will make tanking and healing useful but not absolutely needed.

Or another way to say all that: “Do exactly what ANET has been doing”.

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

@Marthkus: No I did not as I do not care for LoL or any Moba in the slightest.

Well I would look into it because that is a way to pug fairly organised groups. IMO: It takes forever, but so would a 20K+ AP exp/zerk/80/eternity wielding/1war3guard1mes LFG for AC.

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

Tigaseye.2047:

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

Tigaseye.2047:

Anet just need to finally wake up and add a random queue system.

It’s 2015, for goodness sake…

Then, people will get what they get and if they don’t like that, they can make/join guilds with likeminded people and run their pedantic, uptight hearts out with them.

…and open the flood gates for people trolling, griefing, afking?

Like people don’t grief and troll now?

Anything is better than what we have now, frankly.

I prefer being able to choose what people to play with and being able to kick those who don’t want to play as a group, replacing this with a purely random system would be horrible.

Have you seen LoL team builder?