“We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too.”
Those who don’t chase around prestigious gear are “just as powerful”. That is a quote from the now-deleted blog post. And yet those who don’t chase Ascended Gear actually aren’t “just as powerful.” It may only be a minor difference, but a difference it is.
I think this may be a response to me; So I will respond. As I stated before, Arenanet did not state there will be no “Progression”. Which I think the quote makes no claim to do. However I would like to stay on topic and ask you your opinion of Guildwars 1 elite content.
This statement by Mike O’ Brien seems to be quite the opposite of what you are claiming here:
“I hope we’ve been clear that GW2 is not a game with virtually no stat progression in it like GW1 was. That’s why GW2 shipped with a higher level cap, and with a hard separation between PVE and PVP” – Mike
" GW2 was designed without those restrictions, and we’ve always expected that we will someday raise the level cap in GW2.” – Mike
" GW2 can have gradual stat progression without being a gear treadmill game." – Mike
However regardless of these statement’s, I believe you’ve state that “Raiding” was comprised of a “Smaller” section of the community. I would like to ask you: based on what MMO do you draw this assessment? And why exactly would that matter in Guildwars 2, for all we know currently “Raiding/Elite” content could be done by the majority players. If Arenanet want’s to make a game for the majority of their players I see no reason to have both “Elite” content and having “Most” players to be able to do it.
To be fair, those statements were made in response to all of the backlash from players regarding the release of Ascended Gear. Many people felt and still feel that those statements go directly against what ArenaNet originally marketed the game as.
Yes they were made after, but keep in mind that Arenanet never stated that there would be no vertical progression. People just assumed that it wouldn’t be there, and there lies the problem. Keep in mind what Mike is saying here: “I hope we’ve been clear” which seems to affirm the idea that they’ve never stated that “Progression” wont be implemented.
I am going to assume that you weren’t following the game very closely before launch. There were definitely mentions of no progression, and I cannot reference back to them because ArenaNet has literally deleted all of the records containing such.
You’ve assumed wrong, I started playing Guildwars 1 when Factions came out and have been hooked too the company ever since. When I saw the announcement of Guildwars 2 on the frontpage of Guildwars 1 login screen I have been reading almost every detail of this game. And never once did I ever see an article about not implementing “Progression”. And since you have no evidence to support your claim as of now, I don’t see any reason for anyone to take your word for it. (Not being snotty).
It was something that was discussed in some of the prelaunch videos. Back when they started releasing the feature specific ones about pillars of the world and such. Might also have been in the original manifesto video. Not that you can find these things anymore. Most have been miraculously removed. Things that make you go hmmmmm
I think you are simply mistaken here, I just looked at the Manifesto and no one talks about their not being progression so that couldn’t be it. I have these video’s saved on my computer (Catacomb video and all). I also don’t believe Arenanet deleted anything pertaining to this subject. If they did, I think it would have been known by the majority of people.
I was following this stuff religiously, so I don’t think so. Maybe, always possible.
Yes, some of the videos and blogs have been removed. There has been several discussions about it. And much condemning of Anet going back on their promises.
Did those video’s contain the statement “There will be no stat progression” or something akin to that? Just to clarify a bit, what are names of the video’s and blog post you are referring too? Also can you link the conversations in which people condemn Arenanet for this exact reason?
Just to stay on topic here, did you play the “Elite” content in Guildwars 1 such as Urgoz or UW? If so what would be the problem of making content similar to these?
This statement by Mike O’ Brien seems to be quite the opposite of what you are claiming here:
“I hope we’ve been clear that GW2 is not a game with virtually no stat progression in it like GW1 was. That’s why GW2 shipped with a higher level cap, and with a hard separation between PVE and PVP” – Mike
" GW2 was designed without those restrictions, and we’ve always expected that we will someday raise the level cap in GW2.” – Mike
" GW2 can have gradual stat progression without being a gear treadmill game." – Mike
However regardless of these statement’s, I believe you’ve state that “Raiding” was comprised of a “Smaller” section of the community. I would like to ask you: based on what MMO do you draw this assessment? And why exactly would that matter in Guildwars 2, for all we know currently “Raiding/Elite” content could be done by the majority players. If Arenanet want’s to make a game for the majority of their players I see no reason to have both “Elite” content and having “Most” players to be able to do it.
To be fair, those statements were made in response to all of the backlash from players regarding the release of Ascended Gear. Many people felt and still feel that those statements go directly against what ArenaNet originally marketed the game as.
Yes they were made after, but keep in mind that Arenanet never stated that there would be no vertical progression. People just assumed that it wouldn’t be there, and there lies the problem. Keep in mind what Mike is saying here: “I hope we’ve been clear” which seems to affirm the idea that they’ve never stated that “Progression” wont be implemented.
I am going to assume that you weren’t following the game very closely before launch. There were definitely mentions of no progression, and I cannot reference back to them because ArenaNet has literally deleted all of the records containing such.
You’ve assumed wrong, I started playing Guildwars 1 when Factions came out and have been hooked too the company ever since. When I saw the announcement of Guildwars 2 on the frontpage of Guildwars 1 login screen I have been reading almost every detail of this game. And never once did I ever see an article about not implementing “Progression”. And since you have no evidence to support your claim as of now, I don’t see any reason for anyone to take your word for it. (Not being snotty).
It was something that was discussed in some of the prelaunch videos. Back when they started releasing the feature specific ones about pillars of the world and such. Might also have been in the original manifesto video. Not that you can find these things anymore. Most have been miraculously removed. Things that make you go hmmmmm
I think you are simply mistaken here, I just looked at the Manifesto and no one talks about their not being progression so that couldn’t be it. I have these video’s saved on my computer (Catacomb video and all). I also don’t believe Arenanet deleted anything pertaining to this subject. If they did, I think it would have been known by the majority of people.
Nope, I would be horrified if they added raiding into this game. I am an “old” EQ franchise player as well as a GW1 player. I did a LOT of raiding in EQ/EQOA/EQ2 and would hate to see another new grind introduced to this game. If they want to add new challenging content I would highly suggest elite dungeons, not raiding.
Well essentially that’s what raiding is “Elite dungeons”, they don’t have to have 40 people on one screen. They can be like what we had in Guildwars 1, I think that’s what most of the “Raiding” community wants. Not everyone wants Guildwars 2 too be like WoW or EQ. If you’ve ever done UW don’t you remember how exciting it was when you or a party member got Dhuum’s Soul Reaper?
This statement by Mike O’ Brien seems to be quite the opposite of what you are claiming here:
“I hope we’ve been clear that GW2 is not a game with virtually no stat progression in it like GW1 was. That’s why GW2 shipped with a higher level cap, and with a hard separation between PVE and PVP” – Mike
" GW2 was designed without those restrictions, and we’ve always expected that we will someday raise the level cap in GW2.” – Mike
" GW2 can have gradual stat progression without being a gear treadmill game." – Mike
However regardless of these statement’s, I believe you’ve state that “Raiding” was comprised of a “Smaller” section of the community. I would like to ask you: based on what MMO do you draw this assessment? And why exactly would that matter in Guildwars 2, for all we know currently “Raiding/Elite” content could be done by the majority players. If Arenanet want’s to make a game for the majority of their players I see no reason to have both “Elite” content and having “Most” players to be able to do it.
To be fair, those statements were made in response to all of the backlash from players regarding the release of Ascended Gear. Many people felt and still feel that those statements go directly against what ArenaNet originally marketed the game as.
Yes they were made after, but keep in mind that Arenanet never stated that there would be no vertical progression. People just assumed that it wouldn’t be there, and there lies the problem. Keep in mind what Mike is saying here: “I hope we’ve been clear” which seems to affirm the idea that they’ve never stated that “Progression” wont be implemented.
I am going to assume that you weren’t following the game very closely before launch. There were definitely mentions of no progression, and I cannot reference back to them because ArenaNet has literally deleted all of the records containing such.
You’ve assumed wrong, I started playing Guildwars 1 when Factions came out and have been hooked too the company ever since. When I saw the announcement of Guildwars 2 on the frontpage of Guildwars 1 login screen I have been reading almost every detail of this game. And never once did I ever see an article about not implementing “Progression”. And since you have no evidence to support your claim as of now, I don’t see any reason for anyone to take your word for it. (Not being snotty).
This statement by Mike O’ Brien seems to be quite the opposite of what you are claiming here:
“I hope we’ve been clear that GW2 is not a game with virtually no stat progression in it like GW1 was. That’s why GW2 shipped with a higher level cap, and with a hard separation between PVE and PVP” – Mike
" GW2 was designed without those restrictions, and we’ve always expected that we will someday raise the level cap in GW2.” – Mike
" GW2 can have gradual stat progression without being a gear treadmill game." – Mike
However regardless of these statement’s, I believe you’ve state that “Raiding” was comprised of a “Smaller” section of the community. I would like to ask you: based on what MMO do you draw this assessment? And why exactly would that matter in Guildwars 2, for all we know currently “Raiding/Elite” content could be done by the majority players. If Arenanet want’s to make a game for the majority of their players I see no reason to have both “Elite” content and having “Most” players to be able to do it.
To be fair, those statements were made in response to all of the backlash from players regarding the release of Ascended Gear. Many people felt and still feel that those statements go directly against what ArenaNet originally marketed the game as.
Yes they were made after, but keep in mind that Arenanet never stated that there would be no vertical progression. People just assumed that it wouldn’t be there, and there lies the problem. Keep in mind what Mike is saying here: “I hope we’ve been clear” which seems to affirm the idea that they’ve never stated that “Progression” wont be implemented.
I still don’t believe people will raid (in bulk) if they don’t get more power out of it. Not that it couldn’t have been this way, but since most people have been trained by other games, they EXPECT more power out of raiding.
Some people, undoubtedly, will raid even for just cosmetic gear, but can you get groups of 20 to do that regularly? I’m thinking not.
This is why Anet ended up introducing ascended gear. Too many people weren’t going to work for cosmetics only. Anet was forced to compromise to keep some people in the game.
It’s a crappy truth, but it doesn’t make it false.
What? Your opinion does not make something truth, no matter how much you believe it.
Anet started this game with the idea that there could be no vertical progression at all. The people would work for skins and nothing else. They said in a couple of interviews that there would be no vertical progression.
And people were leaving the game. So Anet kitten ed off much of its loyal fan base by introducing ascended gear into the fractals, which was vertical progression. A lot of people who loved and supported this game walked away then. There was a significant drop in population at that time.
So why did Anet, knowing this would happen (indeed they said they knew there would be backlash) feel the need to add stats to the new tier of gear? Because people were NOT willing to work at content just for skins. Some were, but not enough. Once they had the stats they wanted, a lot of people were done and stopped playing. The fractals brought some of those people back.
If most people had been willing to work for just cosmetic gear, do you really think Anet would have had to make that change? A change that kitten ed off some of its biggest supporters?
This statement by Mike O’ Brien seems to be quite the opposite of what you are claiming here:
“I hope we’ve been clear that GW2 is not a game with virtually no stat progression in it like GW1 was. That’s why GW2 shipped with a higher level cap, and with a hard separation between PVE and PVP” – Mike
" GW2 was designed without those restrictions, and we’ve always expected that we will someday raise the level cap in GW2.” – Mike
" GW2 can have gradual stat progression without being a gear treadmill game." – Mike
However regardless of these statement’s, I “believe” you’ve stated that “Raiding” was comprised of a “Smaller” section of the community. I would like to ask you: based on what MMO do you draw this assessment? And why exactly would that matter in Guildwars 2, for all we know currently “Raiding/Elite” content could be done by the majority players. If Arenanet want’s to make a game for the majority of their players I see no reason to have both “Elite” content and having “Most” players to be able to do it.
And when Anet add raids you will finish them, get bored, demand new ones, finish them, get bored, demand new ones, etc, etkittenil you found a new game without raids and move there to ask for raids leaving us, players who bought GW2 to get away from kittenty-raids-games or loyal GW players looking for a quality game like the original, with a lot of unwanted content nobody will do ever, and with a poorly developed game because Anet was to busy creating raids for you to pay attention to the rest of the game.
The thing is: If you love WoW Raids (or from any other of the bazillions of clones out there), WHY THAT HELL ARE YOU HERE ASKING FOR RAIDS? WoW is still online (same with most of their clones) as far as I’m aware.
If raids are truly that awesome, why don’t go and keep playing there?
And no, I’m not asking you to leave GW if you don’t like it or those kitten fanboys always said, I’m legitimately asking why, if raids are so great and there is already hundred of games with that system, why come to GW and ask for raids instead of keep playing in WoW?
Also, this is a F2P game, shinies and aesthetics items belong to the Gem Store. If we we could get shiny weapons by finishing a 10-15 men dungeon then, what would be Anet profit?
Who is asking for WoW raids? I think what most people are asking for is “Elite” content which can be done by a large group of people. This form of “Raiding” was introduced in Guildwars 1. You are simply assuming that “Raiding” would be akin to WoW which is just unsubstantiated. And so what if people get bored with content? People get bored with fractal’s now does that mean Arenanet should remove them? If you played Guildwars 2 because it didn’t have “Raids” you came here for the wrong reasons. No were did the Dev team mention that “Raiding/Elite content” won’t be implemented. It’s just like people who say that they don’t want a level increase and that it defies the manifesto even though Anet stated they will increase the level cap.
The reason people are asking for “Raids” is because of the lack of “Elite” content similiar too what we experienced in Guildwars 1. If you read most raid topics the majority of people who want raid’s liken them to the Elite missions in Guildwars 1. And those who oppose “Raids” simply strawman their position assuming that they are talking about WoW.
1- They do not award any items- cosmetic or spec-wise- that cannot be acquired via 5-man means.
2- They do not offer a faster way to accrue Karma, Laurels, Badges of Honor, Top-Tier crafting materials, or Fractal Relics.
3- They do not have their own tokens/currency.
4- They do not provide any extra boost to Guild Influence.
I assume you didn’t want too see Guild missions either? As most of what you have stated here is exactly what is related to Guild Missions currently.
I was excited for them! But Guild Missions are terrible the way they are. Fortunately, they are completely optional and therefore can be completely ignored.
Well doesn’t my comment make you reconsider the reason you may not want “Raids”? Considering that these features are currently in game and have no impact on you whatsoever and as you say can be completely ignored?
Please read my original comment. I’d be fine with raids. As long as they don’t offer exclusive rewards that we cannot obtain elsewhere.
What if those rewards were aesthetic and overglorified like Legendaries? And were sellable? This is the model Guildwars 1 ran with, and it worked great. It allowed people who enjoyed “Elite” content to have fun and hopefully get their hands on some neat items. and at the same time allow “Casual” players to buy that item from the “Raider”.
1. Well “Raid’s” would fall under the category of “Elite” content thereby making it difficult to find competent members. These problems will occur, they even happen with higher level fractals. So that’s granted.
2. Depending on the size of “Raid’s”, which I would assume to be the same as Guildwars 1. Which was aprox. double the “Normal” party size. So a “Guildless” player can still PuG, I did it in Guildwars 1 I admit I failed alot but so what? I still got some rewards.
3. Granted.
4. “to either have NOTHING exclusive and therefore be 100% optional, or not exist” I was harping on the comment in particular, if there is nothing that can be gain from this content “Exclusively” then why make any content? The reward’s can be aesthetics just like Guildwars 1. (And also be sellable so the casuals can buy it *Example – Dhuums scythe.)
5. We can’t truly say what party size will be, it kind of makes this point superfluous.
6. That’s not how it worked in Guildwars 1, each person played a vital role in the content. I don’t see why it can’t be done here in Guildwars 2.
7. Which makes the your point mute?
8. Well you should read up on Guildwars 1 Elite missions, It will probably give a better understand of what “Raiding” would be like in Guildwars 2. Everyone has a biased opinion of raiding because of WoW which is simply not needed in discussions about raids.
1- They do not award any items- cosmetic or spec-wise- that cannot be acquired via 5-man means.
2- They do not offer a faster way to accrue Karma, Laurels, Badges of Honor, Top-Tier crafting materials, or Fractal Relics.
3- They do not have their own tokens/currency.
4- They do not provide any extra boost to Guild Influence.
I assume you didn’t want too see Guild missions either? As most of what you have stated here is exactly what is related to Guild Missions currently.
I was excited for them! But Guild Missions are terrible the way they are. Fortunately, they are completely optional and therefore can be completely ignored.
Well doesn’t my comment make you reconsider the reason you may not want “Raids”? Considering that these features are currently in game and have no impact on you whatsoever and as you say can be completely ignored?
1- They do not award any items- cosmetic or spec-wise- that cannot be acquired via 5-man means.
2- They do not offer a faster way to accrue Karma, Laurels, Badges of Honor, Top-Tier crafting materials, or Fractal Relics.
3- They do not have their own tokens/currency.
4- They do not provide any extra boost to Guild Influence.
and #3 is awfully restrictive , Cosmetic rewards are the life blood of the game. Those need to be a reward and having a currency of which to give said reward is also needed.
Then Raiding is no longer an option, but a requirement. Right now, Fractals (which I personally love) are not an option if you want top-tier gear or Fractal skins. And you’re right, cosmetic rewards are the life blood of the game. That’s why Raids cannot reward them exclusively.
World bosses are awesome because you can have a hundred people together doing the same thing, but it took no organization. If an exclusive skin drops from The Shatterer, you go kill the Shatterer. Others will be there. It’s way different when you have to get 25 folks together.
It’s difficult for MANY of us to know enough people for raids. PUGs are not okay for raids, unless GW2 makes them the same difficulty as dungeons (which would raise the question of having them at all). Personally, I like small groups, especially in GW2 when we can all play DPS. So here’s why Raids need to either have NOTHING exclusive and therefore be 100% optional, or not exist:
- Difficult to form a worthy group.
- Potentially forces guildless players to be involved in guilds.
- Discourages small/social guilds
- Introduces a new style of PvE that many PvE players may not want to be part of.
- Goes against the ability to “play what/how you want”, the way Fractals currently does
- Encourages the unholy trinity
- Restricts class builds to specific class-based assumed roles
- Potentially introduces lore and characters that will be otherwise inaccessible
- Essentially requires voice chat
1. LFG (10-Man)
2. Guildless can “PUG” on LFG.
3. How? What will be the size of a “Raid” party?
4. How is this a reason to not “Raid”, based on this why should anyone do any new content at all?
5. Guildwars 2 was built around (Support,Control and Damage) so this wouldn’t be a problem.
6. How?
7. So? People who didn’t do F&F didn’t see Braham or Rox does that mean that the update shouldn’t have went live? (People could atleast attempt to “Raid”)
8. I did all the “Raid” in Guildwars 1 without voice chat.
For one there is raid content in this game beyond the temples.
As long you people have the attitude that people joining in the “open” world content and consider them to be “trolling” you are in actuality the troll.
It is up to guilds to get a core group together and maintain goals. If you do not allow people that are not in your guild to join in then this is not your game. Since this is an open world game.
Well, there’s plenty of counters to that logic (instanced dungeons, pvp, etc – I’m not asking for open-world things to be eliminated, I like that aspect too; just guild missions are not a suitable replacement for raids in my opinion). Nonetheless, the main issue there in open-world & guild missions is the mechanics in which ArenaNet implements this content. For example, even if a player just stands in the area of a guild mission, the player will scale the mission, same as any event. They will also scale a mission whether they are level cap (80) or if they are just level enough to enter the zone. There are also mechanics, such as guild bounty missions, where if a mob is attacked when it shouldn’t be (Half-baked), it can make him unkillable unless he is zerged down with a 50+ group, which in my opinion also isn’t very fun and again, makes it open to individuals trolling, whether it is intentional or not. Instanced play, available to everyone, allows for more balanced content. Again, I’m not saying open-world/guild-missions should be removed, but there’s also no reason to not exapnd upon instanced play, which already exists in a multitude of ways in GW2.
As it is due to this type of thinking the open world raiding that is already in the game is not being taken advantage of.
The last thing this game needs is more instanced gaming. This promotes elitism and segregates most of those that play the game.
This game was sold as a community focused game and instancing removes this.
It is nice you want to do raiding. Why don’t you try and see how it works beyond the temples. Anet has stated most of the DE webs are beyond the temples and that it would require a community guided effort to figure them out and to get the reward that lie there.
This game was sold as being not like the other games out there that require instanced encounters. You need to start thinking community and not the guild. In the long run the guild will end up the winner if you do
At what point did Arenanet make the statement that this game would solely be introducing open world content? You mention open world “Raiding” as if it fixes our current problem in a lack of endgame. It simply doesn’t, since their is no limit factor in these events/“Raids” people can simply zerg them. It’s counterintuitive to have both a “Difficult” battle and “Zerg”, If they were to introduce Raid’s in the same way they introduced it in Guildwars 1 it would in my opinion provide the endgame this game has been eluding.
Arenanet stated in the manifesto that they would bring back things players loved in GW1, and one of those thing’s were Elite instanced content.
We first need to leave the beta phase of the game, then enjoy a finished game (if you enjoy the beta, imagine the game with all events and activities working at 100%) and then, we can finally think on a expansion
cant agree with this more. there are still is a lot of issues that still need to be fixed, and if you are focused on the pvp side of the game you know all too well which is causing a lot of people to leave.
It is a very time consuming feat for any game company to iron out 100% of their “Bug’s”. To enact this plan instead of producing actual “content” would leave this game in rather dire straits. Content and bug fixes can be produced mutually but never should one have a primary focus over the other.
If you didn’t understand correctly, I think he means that they get all the way points unlocked for free so they don’t have to re-explore an area just to be able to visit there with friends. I think this would be a good option to have, but I personally wouldn’t use it because I would want the gift of exploration
Right, once level cap has been reached the player has the option to “Reveal” the map. Obviously, Arenanet wants people to explore and I think this would give incentive for people to go and get their World Completion. Although allowing this feature for alt’s should have obvious draw backs.
Basically you’re asking to allow your alts to have the shiney star while losing out on all the exp, karma, skillpoints and gear you get from completing maps?
Well, no they wouldn’t get the “Shiney” star, and as I implied before they would only be able to get this accolade at level cap(80). Then they wouldn’t need EXP from maps, and you would still be able to go to Karma vendors for gear. The restrictions I listed are the only one’s that I am implying.
I think it would be beneficial to player who’ve already received world completion to have the option to bestow the same “Achievement” on their “ALT’S”. i’m sure most people who have World completion do not plan to do the whole process again on their Alt’s.
A outline of my suggestion.
1. World Completion would be an account bound accolade which would allow “ALT’S” to also have map completion at level cap. (Optional)
2. “ALT’S” Who choose to acquire map completion through this program, will receive increased Waypoint fee’s too all undiscovered Waypoints.
3. “ALT’S” Who agree with these conditions will no longer be able to acquire, XP from Skill points,POI and WP discovery’s. And will not be able to acquire Gift of Exploration.
I think these “Plant’s” are apart of Canach’s villainous plan, If you read the description of Fervid Censer it states: “Canach used this device to spread his wildlife-aggravating toxins on Southsun Cove.” I think not only is it aggravation wildlife but the populous of the Island. Based on the fact that both “Factions” will mob the other.
Why couldn’t the “Elite” content rewards be on par with that of Guild Mission or Fractal “Daily” rewards? Thing’s such as new ways to acquire Ascended pieces or Items skins would definitely promote more players to play this content. The fact that “Elite” content in Guildwars didn’t drop “Special Elitist” rewards should denote the idea that the playerbase is willing to do this type of content (As long as it’s fun), given the implication of the Manifesto.
Also you stated: “The greater the group size, the less the personal responsibility for each player.” Depending on the design of the “Instance” yes, you could certainly state that, but you are basing your assumption on what you experienced in “WoW” and not projects completed by Arenanet. Ofcourse the main flaw with this statement IMO is that, we can’t simply assume content will be like this, A 10 or 12 man Dungeon may very well need every member of the party to play an intricate role.
If they would introduce it as the only way to get a certain ascended part it would be one of the worser things that could happen to this MMO.
Well when did I state that they would? Why couldn’t they just simply allow you to randomly get ascended rings? or amulets? Remember I stated on par with not exclusive too.
Wouldn’t you love to play extremely hard elite 12 player dungeon which would require 2-3+ hours to complete , which would require you to be skilled, a good player, and require immense teamplay, strategies and preparation?
To spice things up, say, this dungeon would be only open for one time in a week and to enter you would have to pay 5G.
And no waypoints/checkpoints and armor repair.
Personally, I’d love this, I’d even pay arena net for a DLC including this.
As for the rewards, I wouldn’t personally care all that much, perhaps an end chest.
/*********************************************
The question is, why not?
The greater the group size, the less the personal responsibility for each player. Raiding is one of the worst things about WoW and I sure hope that nothing of the sort ever happens in GW2.
But to answer your general question, it’s because a) the rewards wouldn’t be worthwhile thus b) not even the hardcores would do it unless bored. Why develop content that tons of people are going to complain about so that only 1% or less will enjoy?
Why couldn’t the “Elite” content rewards be on par with that of Guild Mission or Fractal “Daily” rewards? Thing’s such as new ways to acquire Ascended pieces or Items skins would definitely promote more players to play this content. The fact that “Elite” content in Guildwars didn’t drop “Special Elitist” rewards should denote the idea that the playerbase is willing to do this type of content (As long as it’s fun), given the implication of the Manifesto.
Also you stated: “The greater the group size, the less the personal responsibility for each player.” Depending on the design of the “Instance” yes, you could certainly state that, but you are basing your assumption on what you experienced in “WoW” and not projects completed by Arenanet. Ofcourse the main flaw with this statement IMO is that, we can’t simply assume content will be like this, A 10 or 12 man Dungeon may very well need every member of the party to play an intricate role.
The opposition to “Elite” content in my opinion tend to make baseless assertions about how “Elite/Raid” content will be managed by Arenanet. The main argument I hear is: “Elite” content will be designed for a minority of the playerbase, and that minority consist of “Elitist”. This however is untrue, depending on how long you’ve actually been interested in GW2. You’ve probably would have played GW1, Which had many thing’s which were considered “Elite/Raid” content. Dungeon’s such as Urgoz, The Deep, Slaver’s exile and The Ebony citadel all essentially have a raid format with “Large” party grouping. I don’t think many of opposition to “Elite” content would have been GW1 players.
GW1 players also got to run all of that content alone with henchmen and heroes.
Yes we did, but the fact that they were Heroes doesn’t discredit the fact that the content was designed for a larger group. Certainly one could say, “Oh GW1 had heroes why can’t GW2 have them, you wan’t raid right? I wan’t heroes!” But this isn’t a serious rebuttal given that Gw2 is indeed a AAA Mmo while Gw1 was not. And community cohesion is a vital role for the game to strive.
The opposition to “Elite” content in my opinion tend to make baseless assertions about how “Elite/Raid” content will be managed by Arenanet. The main argument I hear is: “Elite” content will be designed for a minority of the playerbase, and that minority consist of “Elitist”. This however is untrue, depending on how long you’ve actually been interested in GW2. You’ve probably would have played GW1, Which had many thing’s which were considered “Elite/Raid” content. Dungeon’s such as Urgoz, The Deep, Slaver’s exile and The Ebony citadel all essentially have a raid format with “Large” party grouping. I don’t think many of opposition to “Elite” content would have been GW1 players.
The opposition to “Elite” content should think of “6” thing’s before making negative judgements.
1. Why am I excluding myself from “Elite” content?
2. What exactly do the “Majority” of the playerbase want?
3. How do I determine the “Majority”
4. How is this content any different from “Elite” content in Guildwars 1.
5. Am I making baseless claim’s, because I may or may not have a unsubstantiated/previous bias towards “Raids”
6. Can me and my friends have fun in this content?
I think it is plausible given the fact that it seems that some Dragon champions seem intelligent and have free-will. Although in a corrupted state their thought processes may be convoluted. Once they break free from corruption they could possibly be corrupted by another Dragon.
So would you state that you have an unsubstantiated bias about how Arenanet would implement “Raiding” content. Based on the “Raiding” content they’ve done in the past? And that merely working on only open world “Raid” content would be against their goals?(In the sense that they are improving on GW1 aspects)
Since I have no knowledge of how things took place in GW I can’t make a definitive answer to that.
Having been in other MMOs that had both open and instanced raiding I can say that instanced become more elitist centered with major hardcore tendencies. For example if you are not active such and such amount of time and do not go on so many raids you will be removed from the guild.
When I read guilds only stating they do dungeons, fractal, spvp and wvw and include nothing else to the point of not even knowing that “DE” means “Dynamic Events” I see the same type of mentality.
Does this make me bias? I would say, “I guess so.”
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Instanced content may or may not lead to an “Elitist” mind set in some players. But that doesn’t seem to be a “Good” reason to not implement “Instanced” raiding. As you’ve stated before the personality is currently present in “Dungeon” goer’s. But does that mean Arenanet should not continue to make Dungeon content? Of course not, and the reason Guild Recruiters put what type of things they do, is not necessarily because they are “Elitist” it because people generally like to do this content. Their not getting an advantage over anyone else so I don’t see the reason or initiative for them to become “Elitist”.
Even if you ran dungeons everyday, and you like raids, and you raided everyday doesn’t make you an “Elitist” it just makes you a “Gamer”.
Are you a Guildwars 1 player? If so what did you think of the “Raiding” content in that game? Did you think that it was a bad thing for Arenanet too do? Personally I loved it, and that why me and other veteran’s want to see “Raiding” content in GW2. “Everything you loved about Guildwars 1” This include’s the “Raiding” and Elite content we had in GW1. We simply want to reclaim an important facet of this great franchise.
never got passed two weeks of playing GW the UI drove me nuts. So to answer your question no I didn’t
So would you state that you have an unsubstantiated bias about how Arenanet would implement “Raiding” content. Based on the “Raiding” content they’ve done in the past? And that merely working on only open world “Raid” content would be against their goals?(In the sense that they are improving on GW1 aspects)
Orr could be considered raids if the events required a strategy.
At the moment the more bodies you have to sacrifice, the better your chances of the event succeeding.
mindless zerging =/= raiding
This is exactly how I feel, no matter how you put it once an event start the masses will come. Which will ruin the experience for those who actually want a challenge.
Although I agree that community is a main goal for the developers, I also think that building on interpersonal relationships with Guildmates,Friends etc is a fundamental aspect of that. Now I do not contend that it can only be done in “Instanced” content, but I do however believe that it would be the “Best” arrangement for those types of things. Having challenging and story driven content that can be done by a multitude of your friends in a closed environment emphasizes players to work together and have fun.
Playing instanced content doesn’t make you an elitist as you seem to stating here. You get the same rewards and benefits as people who play “only” do open world events. Arenanet is not trying to split the community between instanced and open content; The game is supposed to be centered around all types of players, not just the casual or the hardcore.
“My question to that is how many people were involved and has anyone started documenting the webs and where can we find this documentation?” How would I know that?
P.S – I always quote thing’s that are “can” be subjective or the topic of discussion.
To answer your question. The change of subject was more of a generalist question not one aimed specifically toward you. I don’t know either that is why I was asking.
As to the guts of your reply:
I believe that the interpersonal relations and team work are something that is very obtainable in open world events. One of these is through the guilds forming DE raid groups. They go through the 26 zones and do every single DE in that zone seeing which are chains and which are single events.
This is done through a chat software and with someone the lead taking the group through these events. This can be done in Orr even better I believe. This keeps guilds active.
Right now they have guild missions which is the tip of the iceberg now they need to go the next step
Are you a Guildwars 1 player? If so what did you think of the “Raiding” content in that game? Did you think that it was a bad thing for Arenanet too do? Personally I loved it, and that why me and other veteran’s want to see “Raiding” content in GW2. “Everything you loved about Guildwars 1” This include’s the “Raiding” and Elite content we had in GW1. We simply want to reclaim an important facet of this great franchise.
If they didn’t want to copy other MMOs why add dungeons in the first place gw factions and nightfall had 0 dungeons they came in the awful eotn xpac, gw2 should just focus on de and open world loot and forget dungeons, add the challenge games from factions and night fall but If I wanted a dungeon farming game I know a few games that do them better.
I’m not sure what message you are trying to convey here, Are you opposed to “Instanced” content? Anyway, Factions and Nightfall both had dungeons. Factions had – The Deep and Urgoz Warren (Raid type) and Nightfall had the “Quest/Dungeon” – The Ebony Citadel of Mallyx (Raid type). Just because Eotn named them dungeons doesn’t mean that the previous instanced content were not dungeons. Also don’t forget about FoW,SF and The Underworld (Raid type).
What I and many others are asking for is this:
1. Large scaled grouped content (Instanced environment)
2. Aesthetic items exclusive to the raid. (Avenues for Ascended items)
3. Challenging encounters.
4. Guild rewards (Like Guild missions)
5. For it to be Elite content like Urgoz Warren or The Deep.
On these points Martin I wish to comment.
First off remember GW2 is suppose to be a community centric game. Admittedly I am not seeing the community. The formula I have placed out there; I believe; is the formula Anet had/has in mind for this game.
Instanced encounters; which most guilds now do and cater to; in my eyes is not community centric.
To me this is a form of elitism which Anet felt needed to go, but could only carry this desire so far since their main goal was to cater to as many playing styles as possible. So for the elitist we have the instances we now have in the game.
I myself am a more community minded person. My goals are lofty and maybe even unattainable. Still they points need to raised.
You even stated that my idea was “Good” even though in quotation marks. It was good because it was community centric. It placed guilds in command with the zerg as tool to be taken advantage of.
Can we get rid of zergs in an open world game like this? No, should we take advantage of it when we can? Most definitely.
Change of subject:
Some have stated that have been to the DEs beyond the temples. My question to that is how many people were involved and has anyone started documenting the webs and where can we find this documentation?
Although I agree that community is a main goal for the developers, I also think that building on interpersonal relationships with Guildmates,Friends etc is a fundamental aspect of that. Now I do not contend that it can only be done in “Instanced” content, but I do however believe that it would be the “Best” arrangement for those types of things. Having challenging and story driven content that can be done by a multitude of your friends in a closed environment emphasizes players to work together and have fun.
Playing instanced content doesn’t make you an elitist as you seem to stating here. You get the same rewards and benefits as people who play “only” do open world events. Arenanet is not trying to split the community between instanced and open content; The game is supposed to be centered around all types of players, not just the casual or the hardcore.
“My question to that is how many people were involved and has anyone started documenting the webs and where can we find this documentation?” How would I know that?
P.S – I always quote thing’s that are “can” be subjective or the topic of discussion.
You repeatedly infer that “Instanced Raiding” is a WoW thing when it’s not, and even if it was so what? WoW is a “Good” game, that’s why its been so prominent.
Well, since this game is NOT WoW, has no intention of becoming WoW, and there a few hundred WoW clones already present in the world… I don’t see this game adding on its primary selling points, so this is all pretty much a moot point anyway.
Instanced raids will probably arrive at the same time as the trinity system and flying mounts.
From what I’ve seen from all the Raid topic’s; People who are advocating raid’s are not advocating for “Gear Progression”. I’m sure your aware of these other forums as I recall having this same conversation with you, and yet you continue to beat the “Strawman”.
This and the “I think its funny” thread are the only two threads on which I’ve discussed raiding in this game. I’ve been on a several month hiatus (since last November), so whoever you are remembering- it wasn’t me. I’m a brand new thorn in your side, I’m afraid
It’s very strange that you have cherry picked most of my comment, and Yet again you’ve equated “Raiding” content with WoW, which is simply fallacious. “Raiding” content as described in my 5 point’s existed in Guildwar 1. Are you then saying Guildwars 1 is a WoW copy? You’ve also accompanied the Idea the “Raiding” content is synonymous with the Trinity and Mounts. When most advocates of “Raiding” content have not asked for any of these installments. Again you are attacking positions that I and others are not asserting here.
Secondly I did reply to you, In another thread about the same issue the name of the thread was; Philosophy on raids. Lastly you may have been on a three month hiatus from the game, but not the forum.
Releasing raid in the WoW format of instanced raids with high loot tables is a slippery slope that I am sure Arenanet doesn’t want to get on.
If you add the raid and only have it drop ascended/exotic gear, the raiders will whine and cry that they DESERVE (yay baseless sense of entitlement) better. So they add new gear to raids, and make it better than what is currently available. If they don’t make the same gear available to the rest of the game, everyone gets funneled into raids and it becomes another end game instanced-raid WoW clone like the dozens of others out there. If they DO add equivalent gear to the rest of the game, the raiders bloated sense of entitlement will have them screaming that no one else but them deserves that level of equipment (just go read the WoW or Rift forums for examples of this).
So… do you add a raid with no new gear, only current gear, to the game and have the raiders whine and cry anyway because they don’t get new, phat lootz OR do you add the raid to the game, add new phat lootz and then deal with the backlash your future choices regarding that will bring OR do you just not add raids at all?
I dunno, I’m a lazy SOB, so I’d choose just to overlook instanced raids and let those players get their instanced raiding done in the 200+ WoW clones that exist already, while giving the players of this game EQ style open world raids.
This whole argument you put forth is a baseless assertion; You cannot merely assume that people will complain about not getting “Phat Loot” from Raiding content. And if they did so what? People complain about loot tables and Ascended gear all the time, does that mean Arenanet should somehow not make content? From what I’ve seen from all the Raid topic’s; People who are advocating raid’s are not advocating for “Gear Progression”. I’m sure your aware of these other forums as I recall having this same conversation with you, and yet you continue to beat the “Strawman”. You repeatedly infer that “Instanced Raiding” is a WoW thing when it’s not, and even if it was so what? WoW is a “Good” game, that’s why its been so prominent.
What I and many others are asking for is this:
1. Large scaled grouped content (Instanced environment)
2. Aesthetic items exclusive to the raid. (Avenues for Ascended items)
3. Challenging encounters.
4. Guild rewards (Like Guild missions)
5. For it to be Elite content like Urgoz Warren or The Deep.
Sure someone could call the large event’s in Guildwars 2 “Raid’s” but to state that they are there as a “Good” way to facilitate “Raiding” in Guildwars 2 is simply wrong. Raiding content has always been about Instanced dungeons which provide progression in “Gear”; what is defined as an “Progression” is merely up to the developer. The problem with “Raiding/Lx Events” in Guildwars 2 is the fact the content is “Open” and allows an “Infinite” number of players to participate whilst reaching it max scaling point at a “Finite” number. Which makes content unexciting as a player in a large “Zerg” could literally do nothing but autoattack and get his gold at the end of the event.
If the content was specifically tailored for 10,20 or even 30 people then you would not have these problems. But of course the only way to achieve these means is to produce instanced raiding.
“Raiding content has always been about Instanced dungeons” —- false statement EQ introduced raiding and was open world. all GW2 has done is removed griefing from the formula by letting everyone share
per Anet the more people that show up the greater the reward. If you maintain a core focused group through TS or mumble or something who cares of other people show up. Again the the problems with open world raiding in older MMOs does not apply to this one
also note that Orr has double the amount of DEs that the other zones have. SO you can have a lot of organized guild groups in various parts of the Orrian map.
Your reasons “not” to raid are actually reason WHY you should. Simply thanks for supporting making DE raid groups even though you didn’t realize you had
While my use of the word “Always” may have not been a absolute statement I do think that it applies to the majority of mmo’s. You claimed that making “Raiding” content open world reduces “Grief” how is that so? The experience of a “Challenging” fight is ruined by the introduction of a “Zerg” as it makes content unscalable to the level of players in the event. Therefore making the content not “Challenging”, which in my opinion is not “Good” raiding content.
Open world content can be fun; but it should not be implemented as “Raiding” content, atleast not in the state that its currently in. Which is auto-attack spamfests.
To remove the Zerg you have to spread out the masses. I feel per the wording given us by Anet that can be done. You have to keep people locked down to certain spots, like the temples for example. Per Anet the Temples must be kept under our control or it will cause the areas beyond to be unfruitful.
But to spread out the masses you still need a controlling factor that only comes through when using a raiding format. Simple a central command structure with the lieutenants being given command of key hold points.
Also Anet has said that over half the DEs are in Orr and past the temples. That is a ton of content that can keep people spread all over the map and get most of the zerg out of the formula. Even though at time I feel a zerg will be welcomed.
It is like WvW for the PvE enviroment. Without structure you fail, but without chaos at the right time you also fail
Although what you are saying would be a “Good” way of making the DE content more challenging; It suffers same flaws as the current system, as “Zergs” could simply move from one event to the next. Making the content the same of “Spam-fest”, as we have currently. For example; I just did Melandru on SBI; during the whole fight I was checking my E-mail’s and Youtube videos while autoattacking. But of course this doesn’t mean the content is bad or dull, It just means that it can be done in a “Zerg” without people paying any attention.
Sure someone could call the large event’s in Guildwars 2 “Raid’s” but to state that they are there as a “Good” way to facilitate “Raiding” in Guildwars 2 is simply wrong. Raiding content has always been about Instanced dungeons which provide progression in “Gear”; what is defined as an “Progression” is merely up to the developer. The problem with “Raiding/Lx Events” in Guildwars 2 is the fact the content is “Open” and allows an “Infinite” number of players to participate whilst reaching it max scaling point at a “Finite” number. Which makes content unexciting as a player in a large “Zerg” could literally do nothing but autoattack and get his gold at the end of the event.
If the content was specifically tailored for 10,20 or even 30 people then you would not have these problems. But of course the only way to achieve these means is to produce instanced raiding.
“Raiding content has always been about Instanced dungeons” —- false statement EQ introduced raiding and was open world. all GW2 has done is removed griefing from the formula by letting everyone share
per Anet the more people that show up the greater the reward. If you maintain a core focused group through TS or mumble or something who cares of other people show up. Again the the problems with open world raiding in older MMOs does not apply to this one
also note that Orr has double the amount of DEs that the other zones have. SO you can have a lot of organized guild groups in various parts of the Orrian map.
Your reasons “not” to raid are actually reason WHY you should. Simply thanks for supporting making DE raid groups even though you didn’t realize you had
While my use of the word “Always” may have not been a absolute statement I do think that it applies to the majority of mmo’s. You claimed that making “Raiding” content open world reduces “Grief” how is that so? The experience of a “Challenging” fight is ruined by the introduction of a “Zerg” as it makes content unscalable to the level of players in the event. Therefore making the content not “Challenging”, which in my opinion is not “Good” raiding content.
Open world content can be fun; but it should not be implemented as “Raiding” content, atleast not in the state that its currently in. Which is auto-attack spamfests.
Raiding content has always been about Instanced dungeons which provide progression in “Gear”; what is defined as an “Progression” is merely up to the developer. The problem with “Raiding/Lx Events” in Guildwars 2 is the fact the content is “Open” and allows an “Infinite” number of players to participate whilst reaching it max scaling point at a “Finite” number.
Our definitions of “Always” are very different. Just because that is how WoW did it does not make it how it should be, especially considering the big raid game that came BEFORE WoW (Everquest) had open world raids.
I said it before and will say it again- just because WoW did something, doesn’t mean that it is how it should be!
What exactly are you referring to here? Nowhere in my comment did I state anything about World of Warcraft. And too the point about EQ; So what? While my inference on “Always” may have been untrue, the statement applies to the vast majority of “Raid” content in many Mmo’s. The fact of the matter is “Raiding” in a traditional sense cannot truly be fulfilled in this game in an open environment. As mechanic’s of fights have to take into consideration a “Zerg” group entering the fight. Which essentially dumb down the fight so that people can spam auto attacks. I think Bosses such as the Shatterer or Teqault may have had very different mechanics if the Dev team didn’t have to take into consideration “Zergs”.
I think you are seeing this problem through your own guise; I think your problem with raiding is that it resembles other “Mmo” structures. Which is a rather bad reason IMO to be so vocal against “Instanced raiding”.
Sure someone could call the large event’s in Guildwars 2 “Raid’s” but to state that they are there as a “Good” way to facilitate “Raiding” in Guildwars 2 is simply wrong. Raiding content has always been about Instanced dungeons which provide progression in “Gear”; what is defined as an “Progression” is merely up to the developer. The problem with “Raiding/Lx Events” in Guildwars 2 is the fact the content is “Open” and allows an “Infinite” number of players to participate whilst reaching it max scaling point at a “Finite” number. Which makes content unexciting as a player in a large “Zerg” could literally do nothing but autoattack and get his gold at the end of the event.
If the content was specifically tailored for 10,20 or even 30 people then you would not have these problems. But of course the only way to achieve these means is to produce instanced raiding.
I don’t understand why this is a problem, Guildwars 2 is a fictional world which includes various thing’s that are not necessarily true. The fact the game has Religion in it shouldn’t bother anyone; Because at the end of the day everything in this game is not an accurate description of real-life. The same question could be asked about any aspect of the game that people may not adhere to such as Magic.
The moderator said that we should stray away from our real-world view’s. So the fact that anyone is an Atheist or a Theist, should not be discussed here. The question by the OP was not: What “Religious” Ideology do you adhere too. It was: Why is it needed in video-games. And my simple answer too that is: It is not needed in Video-Games, but thing’s such as Magic or Science aren’t needed either.
P.S – The Charr are not Atheist; Rather they are Misotheist/Maltheist depending on the view of the actual Charr.
I think a 10-Man would be a good way for Arenanet to introduce larger scaled content. Similar to that of Urgoz and The Deep (Horse has been beaten to death). The argument’s against this suggestion are simply unfounded; No one know’s exactly how this will pan out just because it’s 10 and not 5 doesn’t mean it will be a mess. Also doesn’t mean that it will be difficult to find a group for and if it did so what? Cadecus Manor take’s a heck of a long time to find people for does that mean the dungeon shouldn’t be in the game?
At the end of the day 10-man group’s will be a good way for Arenanet to emphasize that not only do they want to make the game fun for casual gamer’s but to the people who like challenging content with a large group of friend’s or strangers.(Got to make friend’s somehow) It doesn’t mean the content is classic “Raiding”, It doesn’t mean that the content will have a gear grind.
I do agree that this game has of late been seeing some less than enthusiastic content; I feel as if the team need’s to be more oriented on creating content that will build off into an expansion rather than tweaking just the basic’s. I do think F&F is a step in the right direction; Although the wait period between actual content was dismal. For me the game need’s to be focused around fun group content with an emphasis on lore and very interesting rewards (Instead of chain-skin’s). More dungeon content also need’s to be implemented, Honestly I feel that many people only do dungeon’s so that they can farm them and not for fun.
I still have full confidence in Arenanet even if my idea of a perfect Guildwars 2 is never fulfilled.
And how dose one do that? How long did it take to get the person story as it is now 3 years? This game has CS it had voice acting artful zones and environments its more then just a simple add in a new npc that has a box to read (most will just skip) and go to a “new” zone that was just model off an old one that has no art feeling to it over all making it a less of a zone compared to others.
Why do you have a gripe with what I said? Regardless of whether or not you feel my idea of what be a good foot forward, Somewhere along the line Arena-net is going to have to implement these thing’s. As for how long it took them to make a personal story, I have no clue but it doesn’t seem that long given that they did great work when they worked on expansion’s in GW1 (Which only took 6-month’s). The rest of what you said has nothing to do with my post, As your just assuming that I want Arenanet to introduce lack luster content.
I do agree that this game has of late been seeing some less than enthusiastic content; I feel as if the team need’s to be more oriented on creating content that will build off into an expansion rather than tweaking just the basic’s. I do think F&F is a step in the right direction; Although the wait period between actual content was dismal. For me the game need’s to be focused around fun group content with an emphasis on lore and very interesting rewards (Instead of chain-skin’s). More dungeon content also need’s to be implemented, Honestly I feel that many people only do dungeon’s so that they can farm them and not for fun.
I still have full confidence in Arenanet even if my idea of a perfect Guildwars 2 is never fulfilled.
Just did the content with my guild we only had about 50 people online. I think that even if this content were given to smaller Guild’s they wouldn’t be able to do. Simply put it actually take’s a lot of people to do these missions. Their is really no way to get around it, Sure they could scale it but then smaller guild’s will just complain that it is simply to hard. Because that’s exactly what it is “Hard”.
How do you intend to do this content with only with a small group? This is going to be the content which will indeed fill the role of Guild “Raids” and as such is content oriented toward Guild’s which can muster both Skill and Numbers. I am not not an anonymous chunk in my Guild, I personally know most of the active individuals in the Guild. And If I dont know them, I guess ill just have to meet a new friend wont I?
The part about contet scaling slipped your mind, didn’t it?
Also, you might check up on what “knowing” another person or being a “friend” is, because I think your definition of it might be a wee bit messed up.
And you think content worthy of the title “Guild Missions” will scale well with a small group? If this content as it is indeed portrayed to be it would seem that it much harder than any dynamic encounter in the game. Definition(s) Friends:
1. one attached to another by affection or esteem, 2. one that is not hostile. Exactly how does my understanding of what a “Friend” messed up?
I am a member of two Guild’s, one comprised of me and a few friends from my school years. Then a large Guild who I have come to enjoy the presence of. It isn’t hard for a person to both manage being in a small and large Guild.
It’s great that you enjoy being part of a big, mostly anonymous chunk, but you might want to remind yourself that not everyone shares your preferences. There are tons of people out there who do not find it enjoyable to be part of a mass of players most of which they know nothing more about than their screen name.
I’m totally fine with you and others enjoying your kind of playstile, but you should not ask everyone else to be the same as you.
Game are also about challenges; Sure maybe unlocking it may be daunting in itself, but you will be doing the same content you enjoyed from 1-80 to achieve this end. If you dont want to wait a long time to jump into the action join a larger guild like I did. If not you can complain about (Not saying that you are)
You are confusing having numbers with having skill. Fielding 200 players does not mean that most of them are able to even discern their elbow from their behind. Accepting an invite from on the numerous “invite-everything-that-comes-across”-guilds out there is not a challenge.
How do you intend to do this content with only with a small group? This is going to be the content which will indeed fill the role of Guild “Raids” and as such is content oriented toward Guild’s which can muster both Skill and Numbers. I am not not an anonymous chunk in my Guild, I personally know most of the active individuals in the Guild. And If I dont know them, I guess ill just have to meet a new friend wont I?
This is a game. It shouldn’t involve built-in chores before we can play. I have enough chores in real life. Seriously, what is wrong with the MMO mentality?
Game are also about challenges; Sure maybe unlocking it may be daunting in itself, but you will be doing the same content you enjoyed from 1-80 to achieve this end. If you dont want to wait a long time to jump into the action join a larger guild like I did. If not you can complain about (Not saying that you are)
No offense… Your ‘guild’ doen’t even comprise of enough people to make a party. Guild accomplishments that could be completed by ‘guilds’ like yours would be completely meaningless for a guild that is considerably larger, which are most guilds.
I’m sorry your smaller than party-sized guild can’t complete content meant for larger groups, but did you honestly expect the game to always cater to a group your size and never offer content for guilds that are larger and waiting for something to spend their hundreds of thousands of unused influence on?
What do you think that scaling system they love to advertise so much is for? Well, obviously for not using it on guild missions, we can all see that. But since it already exists and is being used on all the other open-PvE DEs, I have to ask you the question why anyone shouldn’t ask for this content to scale as well. Especially with that blog post stating that even smallest guilds would not be left in the dust.
People will complain and whine about everything that is not handed directly to them, I understand that some are in relatively small guild’s(Start recruiting and become more active). But the content being given can be completed without having a large guild, If you really need to do the content then why not join multiple guilds (Problem Solved). This is Guild related content it is suppose to be hard to attain; I bet the same people who are complaining about this are complaining about Ascended Gear and Level Progression.
Nothing, worth having comes easy….
You don’t even bother to try to understand why people are in small guilds, right? Here’s a hint: it is not because they were not able to join the big ant colonies.
I am a member of two Guild’s, one comprised of me and a few friends from my school years. Then a large Guild who I have come to enjoy the presence of. It isn’t hard for a person to both manage being in a small and large Guild.
People will complain and whine about everything that is not handed directly to them, I understand that some are in relatively small guild’s(Start recruiting and become more active). But the content being given can be completed without having a large guild, If you really need to do the content then why not join multiple guilds (Problem Solved). This is Guild related content it is suppose to be hard to attain; I bet the same people who are complaining about this are complaining about Ascended Gear and Level Progression.
I like the Idea, I myself have suggested Scythes as a weapon used by Necromancer’s. I really like how you presented the skill’s it’s almost perfect. The only thing I would disagree with is: Guardian’s having Scythes, I think the Scythe would be more realistic and viable on a class like Thief or Ranger, As their both classes which don’t have a stable 2h Melee DPS (Ranger GS isnt all that great).
I think it would be great if player’s were to play as kid’s in a storyline “Flashback”, As of now we don’t know much about our characters past life. But I dont think it would fit in the open world.
