Guild Wars 2

Bojoo.7819:

Maugetarr.6823:

Amante.8109:

I agree that Staff should get a smoke field on #4. You still have to take a specific dodge trait, spend 50 endurance, and commit to rolling in a specific direction to get your stealth. Sounds fine to me.

Well, full disclosure, you could use the leap on staff #5, but it would be 9 initiative once they lower staff 5 to 5 ini, and 14 to leap through twice.

I also suggested this one. Just short smoke field on 4 enough to get stealth once with 5 or leap with evade. You are spending lots of initiative for it and you have to be careful not to get reveled by trying to get it. It would be short just so you can get Hook Strike but not camp stealth like with d/p.

Exactly. Just enough time to combo it once with 1, 2, or 5, but not long enough to do it twice.

Amante.8109:

I agree that Staff should get a smoke field on #4. You still have to take a specific dodge trait, spend 50 endurance, and commit to rolling in a specific direction to get your stealth. Sounds fine to me.

Well, full disclosure, you could use the leap on staff #5, but it would be 9 initiative once they lower staff 5 to 5 ini, and 14 to leap through twice.

Serious Thought.5394:

Maug- it’s not about consistency and cooldowns, unless you build evasion tank. Take this build and run zerker+impact/force (or strength sigil/rune+impact) with haste utility and just….watch things literally pop. I already watch things pop on D/P but this…this is too good. On the heavy golem the takedown combo took around 50% hp, combo this with the initation stun+ the dagger toss (the one applying conditions and massive damage) and you are looking at murdering just about anything you see. Right now I basically play “Spray and Pray” by dropping my utilities (despite my post, I just enjoy this too much…and I get the privilege of telling people a joke from League) and hoping things die before Basilisk wears out. I’m looking forward to staff because now Basilisk has a competitive trait slot, Basi for team builds or distributable stuns and takedown for takedowns. On top of that, I can stunlock someone dead =D And that means I don’t have to roll warrior and run Hammer/Mace-Shield. I’m so ready.

tl;dr- Don’t play staff as tank, play staff as assassin. You will murderize everyone. Absolutely everyone. That or stunlock with Killtank.

The utilities can stun lock someone, but the staff can’t. What’s probably going to end up happening is you’ll pop a BPS +swap&leap, Blinding Powder, or smokescreen + leap, then enter combat to try to start off with a knockdown, and subsequently get met with a mirror of anguish/reaper’s protection/balanced stance, and consequently do nothing. The only other weapon set that won’t be able to have the option to stealth on DD is shortbow.

The autoattack is alright in terms of damage. It has a whirl finisher though that the weapon itself can’t utilize. Number 2 also has a whirl an 2 seconds of weakness. Again, no fields on the set and 2 seconds of weakness is available on the autoattack of sword. Number 3 is a nice dodge, however, that’s roughly equivalent to S/D’s #3, while S/X has infiltrators return which can remove any condi as well as making immobilize a moot point even if it isn’t removed. Number 4 is a blind: similar to BPS, but with no field. Making it 5 Initiative and putting a 2 second square field leading to the target would greatly improve Staff 1, 2, 4, and 5. Staff 5 is pretty decent, especially when they’re saying that the initiative cost will come down.

Anyway, that’s my opinion of the staff. It’s a slightly weaker version of the other weapon sets currently. Adding a 2 second smoke field (600 long, non-pulsing, the same width as the fire field left by burning speed) would bring it up to par with the other weapon sets.

Edit: I like pretty much everything else, especially Reckless dodge w/ leap Bounding Dodger

D:

PopeUrban.2578:

I don’t think they want to give staff a field because they don’t want it to have easy stealth access for a 2s knockdown.

IMO staff shouldn’t have a smoke field for exactly that reason. I don’t want to see that stealth attack nerfed down to a shorter duration. Maybe increasing it to 5 targets, adding another condition, giving it a close range aoe pulse, or something else in stead?

More I think about it, a close range pule at the beginning of the animation seems like the most unique route. This would upgrade it to 2 staggered blinds against a melee target, or allow you to blind a ranged target and his melee buddies to help you close on targets or evade better, and wouldn’t be straight overpowered for the 4 init cost.

A single target 2 second knockdown with virtually no damage though wouldn’t be too powerful to make achievable on the weapon set for 9-10 initiative or 4 + a dodge roll. The weapon itself has no other on demand CC and cannot access this attack without burning a long cooldown or coming up with a smoke field from another weapon skill and then swapping. At best, this set is equivalent to S/P which also has good damage, weakness, cleave, blind, on demand CC, and (when paired with the leap dodge) stealth. It could be said that this set is closer to S/D, without the access to stealth, condi remove, or boonsteal.

Staff: Needs a 2 second smoke field on #4. Otherwise not bad at all. It’s got so many finishers though, its dissapointing to have so many finishers without a field on it. The leap either costs a lot of initiative or endurance so it would be pretty balanced and the whirl finishers would help with the multiple combatants that they want us to sustain against.

Utilities: I don’t like the heal. We can’t cover it with stability so it seems like it would get interrupted a lot. The rest were cool.

Traits: I’d like the condi removal and healing to switch places. The rest were cool.

Edit: Let me put it this way, there’s nothing I saw on staff that couldn’t be done with S/D or S/P; both the sword specs have at least the same utility as staff. Introducing a smoke field would be like a hybrid of the two.

Gray.9041:

Vavume.8065:

I will appreciate Karl when he removes death blossom from my power dagger dagger build, or at least make it useful.

this is at least a good third of my condition dagger dagger build. I’d prefer he add more conditions to the other skills.

there’s two sides to every coin bud.

Make it useful as in making the evade 0.5 seconds on a 0.75 second skill like a lot of our weapon evades.

Seabreeze.8437:

I’m actually pretty disappointed that they just recycled the 2-handed hammer stance, as it doesn’t really seem like an appropriate way to hold a melee staff. I’m not really surprised though, seeing as how it’s like that for the revenant. Hopefully the other animations will be new and exciting.

For the most part, I’m really hoping that “Vault” is actually a staff vault rather than just a jump. It has the potential to be such a cool-looking skill!

It could be a modified/recycled heartseeker animation where you do a mid air side flip thingy and then slam the ground with the end of the staff.

Serious Thought.5394:

Maugetarr.6823:

Agressive Build:
S/X + SB
DA/DD/Tr
DA: Mug, PS, Exe
Tr: TotC, BT, SoH
DD: Brawler’s Tenacity, Impacting Disruption, Bounding Dodger

Withdraw, Bandit’s Defense, Distracting Daggers, (TBD), Impact Strike

Sustain Build:
S/X + SB
CS/DD/Tr
CS: SoP, PT, NQ
Tr: TotC, BT, SoH
DD: Weakening Strikes, Escapist’s Absolution, Bounding Dodger

Withdraw, Bandit’s Defense, Shadowstep, Signet of Agility, Impact Strike

I’ll probably give staff a whirl, but without the ability to stealth, I think it’ll be less effective than the potential of S/P.

One of the traits is to change the type of dodge you have- one of the options is leap finisher. Grab smoke screen, or use my suggested build =) Either way, stealth access should not be a problem.

I thought about smokescreen, but it’s on a 30 second CD. S/P seems more than viable because you could BPS and dodge roll, then get to use Tactical Strike which could trigger the Impacting Disruption in addition to headshot and pistolwhip. It’s not that I’m not excited about staff, but I think it will be just about where D/D is, but without the stealth.

Niels.5396:

I suppose you’re right I think I’ll be able to make p/p work again if it works like that.

Hopefully the shot flight time of your autoattacks don’t get you revealed. That’s what I’d be worried about.

Bazzoong.7145:

It also means aoe dmg on dodge, every white critter or clone or pet hit is going to reveal you, no dodging in stealth….

Turn on your brain you just got Karled.

If you’re worried about this you could take unhindered combatant instead.

Niels.5396:

As you know leap finishers generally apply its effect at the end of the leap. Will the intended functionality be that we cannot use it with a smoke field near enemies or that the damage is dealt first and after that we will get the stealth?

Hopefully it will operate like heartseeker in that the damage is applied before the combo effect. I would love if the damage was applied at the beginning of the roll so that when you dodge an attack they eat the damage right then, sort of like you’re kicking off of them.

Agressive Build:
S/X + SB
DA/DD/Tr
DA: Mug, PS, Exe
Tr: TotC, BT, SoH
DD: Brawler’s Tenacity, Impacting Disruption, Bounding Dodger

Withdraw, Bandit’s Defense, Distracting Daggers, (TBD), Impact Strike

Sustain Build:
S/X + SB
CS/DD/Tr
CS: SoP, PT, NQ
Tr: TotC, BT, SoH
DD: Weakening Strikes, Escapist’s Absolution, Bounding Dodger

Withdraw, Bandit’s Defense, Shadowstep, Signet of Agility, Impact Strike

I’ll probably give staff a whirl, but without the ability to stealth, I think it’ll be less effective than the potential of S/P.

sirvincentiii

Let’s do the math.

Feline Grace effectively refunds 15 endurance, thus the cost of 50 endurance per dodge effectively now cost 35 — which allows for roughly 3 dodges with a full endurance bar. Three dodges costs 105 endurance under Feline Grace, meaning after dodging twice, you have to wait a bit before you can perform the 3rd dodge.

Now tell me how the old Feline Grace is better than having 150 endurance?

The old FG stacked with vigor. Yes it allowed for 3 initial dodges the same way this new trait allows for 3 initial dodges, the difference being that the dodges available afterwards. Old FG without vigor allowed for a dodge ever 7 seconds and a dodge every 3.5 seconds with vigor after all endurance has been expended. This trait keeps the endurance regen in such a way that you will only generate 1 dodge every 10 seconds without vigor and 6.66 seconds with vigor (even if it were 1 every 5 seconds with the old vigor, that’s still ~43% longer than what the old feline grace was capable of).

Yes, I’m mildly annoyed that they nerfed our old acrobatics. Yes, it was a little too strong, but could’ve been fixed with some number tweaking on FG. That said, they made a lot of great traits to enhance our dodging capabilities in this line, so overall I like the direction they went. I think acro could use a retool now so that it has a more cohesive design that overlaps less than what these two now do.

I think staff #4 could benefit from a short smoke field. This is because while I think staff is pretty interesting, it will be outclassed by weapon sets that offer a way to stealth, which is all the others at this point. That said, making it only a 2 second, non pulsing arc in front of you would keep it short enough that staff wouldn’t be able to stack stealth as it would require blowing dodges or a minimum of 10 initiative.

I’ll sign on to this with 1 caveat. I am still bummed out about the nerfs to FG….

That said, it seems like Karl has been lurking here in the background taking notes on feedback and has given us a spec that is more cohesive and interesting than 90% of what the old acrobatics had. I will continue to make suggestions on how I think some of the core issues with the thief could be fixed, but I think we’re at least getting visits from the devs even if they’re not leaving comments.

Thanks Karl and other thief devs!

Morfedel.4165:

Fact is while they are similar, they aren’t identical, and do offer different bonuses. If you want to be a dodging fool, they will compliment that playstyle very well.

Sure, they’re not identical, but a lot of the effects that Daredevil has are essentially better versions of what you could get in acro, rendering the line almost obsolete. It should be re-themed at this point. They could theme it around reveal or shadowsteps or general mobility so it wouldn’t be DD’s weaker version.

Re-theming it to general mobility would allow them to keep decent traits like Don’t Stop and build out the rest of the line, increasing shadowstep distance, removing condis on shadowsteps, enhancing swiftness, etc.

I really want thief staff to use the charr rifle animation when they take it off their back.

The tier seems to fit 3 different playstyles.
1) Condi removal if you don’t have any other or need the extra
2)Extra dodges and damage for staff
3)Extra damage for S/X users and X/P users via interrupts

Reilem.5910:

TL; DR Everyone complains about how bad and under powered their class is, thief is no different. Daredevil is unfinished and if a name is enough to make you dislike something, then grow the kitten up.

I think you haven’t been reading the majority of complaints very closely. A lot of them have been about the nerfing of our defensive lines. In particular, acrobatics was pre-nerfed to make room for Daredevil. Now aside from pre-nerf feline grace, daredevil is way more cohesive than acrobatics has ever been. That said, it seems like they took a lot of ideas for fixing acrobatics and put it into this spec. That’s great, but what does acrobatics do that this spec now doesn’t effectively do better? Shadow arts has also seen issues largely due to placement of traits in the line.

Before you assume that the only thing we’ve been complaining about is a name, actually read through this forum.

Auesis.7301:

The mysterious 12th trait has been found – and I was right. It’s a 3rd type of dodge skill with power damage. Potential DPS increase for PvE use and just monstrous in general for anything else. This hits about as hard as a frontstab!

Holy crap I didn’t notice the leap on this at first. Are you say that S/P and P/P could get stealth access?! Could I actually run P/P gaining damage from interupts and have stealth on the set? Man, I hope they put a smoke field on staff 4….. that could be a really fun set with some of these traits…..

Amante.8109:

Definitely enable the max range ground target option from a few patches back. It is such a nice QoL improvement.

Yeah. They really didn’t publicize the option well though. A friend of mine was watching a video of mine and asked why the ground target on IA wasn’t going to where my mouse was. He just responded with FML after I told him. I think he was on a nade engi at the time….

Sekai.2987:

philheat.3956:

Evan Lesh.3295:

The rest of this feature is now being turned on.

It’s good but there is no really much time at the end of the game to see every stats and analyze it.

So i hope you can in future add a match history and maybe some general comparison between teams (damage team red, decap team red, healing team red, ress team red, downed, stomp ecc.)

true dat , the 10sec ? you have after a match before you get ported to the mists isnt enough time to check out your stats , extend that to 30-60sec or the new feature is preaty useless

How about a previous game(s) stats tab in the enter queue box? Maybe the last 3-5 games or so? That way you can just look at your previous games while sitting in HotM.

I had to leave before you guys got to weapon skills, but your change to infiltrator’s arrow already exists in game. It’s in general options (and poorly worded) but check the box that says “lock ground target at maximum range.” It makes all ground target skills go to their maximum range if you move your mouse beyond it.

As for a functional change to the skill, it should have a higher arc but have the projectile move faster so the horizontal speed stays the same but it’s less likely to clip the ground on the way to the targeted location, which results in a short shot.

Unless the multiplier changes with the addition of might, it should scale exactly the same. It has a 1.31 multiplier which is in between a low and mid range heartseeker.

Driften.8716:

Gabriell.4856:

Please rename it to “Five Finger Heart Exploding Technique”.

Also, allow it to crit.

That is all. Thanks.

I perfer “Five Finger Death Punch”

I’m under and over it.

PopeUrban.2578:

I like how people are saying “It’ll just get nerfed and be useless”

You know, as if this isn’t a clear indication that they’ve decided that the nerfs to theif evasion were heavy handed and that they consider this to be a viable counter in a world where all the other elite specs live.

Do you really think they’d nerf acro, then design acro 2.0, if they were going to just return us back to the status quo?

Their thinking probably went like this:

Acro is “too good”

Old Acro style wouldn’t be “too good” as an elite spec since they couldn’t combo it with other elite specs we have planned (gunslinger, shadow mage, other ranged style E-Specs)

They’re going to complain about acro being made redundant.

We’ll just try to explain to them why.

They’ll hate it anyway.

They’re thieves. They hate everything we do. Compile and release.

This is probably more true than not. I wish they’d just overhaul Acrobatics into a more cohesive line then. Taking off the rose colored glasses, I took acro for FG. While there were a couple of alright major traits, most of the good ones were adept tier. So far the datamined traits are cohesive. They actually synergize with the utilities available to the spec. For that 12th one I’d like to see even more endurance regen. Then they can rename acrobatics something else, because it’s still an odd assortment of weird traits barely attached to evasion, with the exception of a couple of underpowered ones. Theme it around improving shadowstepping/chasing people down or something.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Uh.. Am I missing something? Was there a reveal / article or is this all speculation based on data-mined stuff? Cuz uh.. Eles got a sword datamined and I believe Wars found different/scrapped abilities.

Seems a bit early to be bashing and crying.

Yeah it’s not officially confirmed, but there’s still this and this

It’s not a reveal, but interesting none the less.

yolo swaggins.2570:

It is only a different playstyle by it’s aesthetics alone. Its still melee, its still evasive. Thief has an ample amount of both of these and it is going to follow the path s/d took, eventually, because of of the amount of evasion s/d had pre-nerf. People are going to complain about too much evasion and then suddenly DD gets put on the level of the current acro.

This is sort of true. Staff is like a hybrid of S/D and S/P. If they put a smoke field on staff 4, I think you’d have a decent control set because you wouldn’t really be able to stack stealth mid combat with the costs of the leap. The whirl finishers would make it an interesting combo.

True, it might get nerfed, but so could DA, CS, SA, and Tr.

All that said, the utilities look like fun.

yolo swaggins.2570:

They didn’t want an OP spec. They wanted something different. While they more or less got something different it ends up being a better version of something thieves already have. And so the question becomes “Why couldn’t they just put some of that into acro?”

This part I completely agree with though, which is why I’ve said in other threads that I’m both happy and annoyed. I got acro back, but really I just got acro back.

Rain.9213:

I don’t understand how people can say this is Acro 2.0 when:

1. New traitline doesn’t give vigor
2. Acro isn’t even THAT bad right now.

I currently run a DA/Ac/Tr build with Sword+Dagger and while I agree that it is not viable in PvP, I have destroyed Burn Guards, D/D eles, D/P thieves, and even PU Interrupt Mesmers.

Sure it WAS nerfed but not as bad as everyone QQ’s about. I do think it does need certain traits reworked but everyone cries about Acro like if it’s completely useless when it’s given us 3 pretty good traits like Swindler’s Equilibrium, Hard To Catch 2.0, and Don’t Stop. Seriously, Swindler’s Equilibrium+Improvisation on Deadly Arts is pretty kitten good.

The new traitline offers us ACTIVE endurance regeneration and defense while Acro offers passive options. That’s what’s different. So it’s not Acro 2.0, it’s Acro’s cousin. They do similar things but in different ways.

Acro is mathematically bad right now and the playstyle was largely changed from active dodging to passive procs.

Traiting CS with Signets of Power and using Signet of Agility yields better active defenses as well as more damage. If they give it endurance regen not tied to vigor (say replacing endless stamina with 5 endurance on hit, 1 second icd), I’ll use the line. Right now it offers limited benefits for a short fight and not enough sustain for a longer fight.

I guess you sort of mentioned the active/passive relationship already between the two lines, but that largely ticked off a bunch of people.

(These observations are from a PvP perspective)

Orpheal

Staff Bash > QuickThrusts > Windmill Dash
A quick Staff Slash, followed by quick multiple striking staggering Thrusts of the Staff that daze the foe for 1s, if all 3 thrusts hit and deal damage, followed by a Whirling Staff Leap Line of Sight Atttack with the Mechanic of the Warriors GS Whirwind Attack, which will reflect projectiles while the animation is running that deals to all foes in that line of sight multiple hits and which slows foes instead of giving them Vulnerability, when all of the attacks hit for like 2s

Uh…. that auto attack….. have you tried ranger 1h sword? Yeah…. I don’t want forced movements on auto.
A launch based on initiative like that?
A stunbreaker that stuns on the weapon? So you took one of the new utilities and put it on the staff?
If I understand you, #5 is ranger axe 5 that also grants stability and resistance……

Chapell.1346:

style.6173:

Chapell.1346:

If they having problem with Deathblossom and his capabilities of stacking Bleeding specially in Teamfights(spoon feed!), Not Entitled and need more Effort so lets resort to Playerskill issue.

You really don’t get it. POWER thieves have no interest in stacking BLEEDS. The weaponset is just average at both right now.

Oh yes I almost forget you, here let me Enlightened you. (SPOON FEED)

As I stated it works perfect in teamfight scenario which favor conquest, technically you must have a Condition user as an ally which will be the one who must execute the stacking first and you’ll going to help him stack more bleeds(that’s were Deathblossom come in, a followup skill), yes you are Power build but the damage mitigation will be on your Condition ally. Wuvwuv people call it Synergies, pvp people that smash button brainlessly and can defeat their opponents in 1v1 scenario called it Skill.
Pretty much I did played the wrong game.

Alternatively, you could use D/P, cover your condi-ally’s condition with blind and interrupt their condi cleanse with Pistol #4. You’d have better offense and better defense.

Girbilcannon.8259:

“The point to an Elite Specialization is not to solve the ‘needs’ of a class but rather offer an alternative play style…”

This makes me laugh a little bit because from what we can see so far, it doesn’t give us an alternate play style…just an alternate weapon while killing other weapons, so it really doesn’t give us anything. it’s sad really.

Condi removal outside of stealth. Defensive healing outside of stealth. Rewards for successful CC. Yes, without a smoke field on 4 staff is a little underwhelming, especially since with has 2 whirl finishers and a leap finisher, but I’ll reserve my judgement till i see it in action. Blocks on thief. Low CD stunbreaks on thief. An alternative elite to BV for land. How does this kill other weapons? If they would fix deathblossom on D/D to something like whirlwind attack, the set could easily run in this line.

Yeah, I’m disappointed that they nerfed acro for acro 2.0, but the major traits they have in this are better than almost anything acro ever had. My hope is that they go through our other defensive lines and bring them up to be on par with this. This is at least a move in the right direction.

MarauderShields.6830:

Zero Day.2594:

Or it could be 5,520 in 3 pulses…

It’s also stationary/roots in place while channeling…

Withdraw still seems better since it doesn’t root/channel, evades, cleanses condies, and has less of a CD.

That heal better be 5,520 per pulse and not 5,520 over 3 pulses….

I think it will be similar to ele’s ether renewal where you can move around while channeling. I also highly doubt it will heal 15-23K on a 20 s cooldown AND restore 75 % of endurance…

A spec focused around quick movements and interrupts with a long channel, highly interruptable heal… I sense a little bit of irony. It would be nice if it were more like the Ranger’s troll unguent with a cast time and then pulses on the second afterwards, but I think you’re correct.

Chapell.1346:

Maugetarr.6823:

Chapell.1346:

Maugetarr.6823:

Chapell.1346:

Maugetarr.6823:

As I stated, if you have these they come from your traits and utilities, not the D/D set. I listed what the other sets bring that D/D doesn’t.

I don’t think you’re Entitled enough to say such thing, stating all your previous post Sword/dagger Thief.

….as former D/D thief that switched sets due to the set’s inadequacies…. am I just not allowed to point out facts? What would entitlement have to do with anything I’ve said? I literally listed the mechanics available to S/D and D/P to which D/D does not have comparable access.

I don’t think D/d works the same as the other weapon set including S/p and P/d (did i play all the Thief weapon set in this game has to offer,wrong?), i am sure you’ll going to agree with that Sword/dagger Thief.

I honestly don’t understand the point you’re trying to make.

It is not my problem if you lack understanding, former D/d thief.

It actually is your problem. You could have the wisdom of the gods, but no one would know if you cannot convey it properly.

The only thing I have gathered so far is that you have taken my statement of how D/D is mechanically inferior as a slight of your playing ability. That is not the case.

Chapell.1346:

Maugetarr.6823:

Chapell.1346:

Maugetarr.6823:

As I stated, if you have these they come from your traits and utilities, not the D/D set. I listed what the other sets bring that D/D doesn’t.

I don’t think you’re Entitled enough to say such thing, stating all your previous post Sword/dagger Thief.

….as former D/D thief that switched sets due to the set’s inadequacies…. am I just not allowed to point out facts? What would entitlement have to do with anything I’ve said? I literally listed the mechanics available to S/D and D/P to which D/D does not have comparable access.

I don’t think D/d works the same as the other weapon set including S/p and P/d (did i play all the Thief weapon set in this game has to offer,wrong?), i am sure you’ll going to agree with that Sword/dagger Thief.

I honestly don’t understand the point you’re trying to make.

Chapell.1346:

Maugetarr.6823:

As I stated, if you have these they come from your traits and utilities, not the D/D set. I listed what the other sets bring that D/D doesn’t.

I don’t think you’re Entitled enough to say such thing, stating all your previous post Sword/dagger Thief.

….as former D/D thief that switched sets due to the set’s inadequacies…. am I just not allowed to point out facts? What would entitlement have to do with anything I’ve said? I literally listed the mechanics available to S/D and D/P to which D/D does not have comparable access.

Just realized the distracting dagger/brawler’s tenacity synergy. Mmm….. 40 endurance back.

While I’m disappointed that the Acrobatics line was made so dismal, I’m happy with acro 2.0.

babazhook.6805:

Does anyone know what "Palm strike " is?

This

Jk, auesis is correct.

I would like to see dust strike get a smoke field. The set only has 1 leap on it so the whole combo would be 10 initiative.

Zero Day.2594:

Maugetarr.6823:

Zero Day.2594:

Alex.9268:

The auto attack is pretty underwhelming though.

Yeah, definitely is…

Doesn’t dagger on it’s own cleave 2 extra enemies…?

1 extra, but outside of PvE when is that going to matter that much. Daggers also have poison and endurance gain on them…..so yeah.

Does the cleave off of dagger apply the poison to the 2nd cleaved target…? I don’t think it does, does it?

I thought the poison got inflicted on both, but the endurance regen only triggered from 1 target.

If they would fix Death blossom, I think some of the traits and physical skills could make D/D evasion an actual thing.

Zero Day.2594:

Alex.9268:

The auto attack is pretty underwhelming though.

Yeah, definitely is…

Doesn’t dagger on it’s own cleave 2 extra enemies…?

1 extra, but outside of PvE when is that going to matter that much. Daggers also have poison and endurance gain on them…..so yeah.

Kocoff.7582:

WOW THAT ELITE.

" Ennemies struck with this ability are finished"

goodbye basilik V.

Pretty much. I mean it’s a little confusing cause the description says “stun” and the tool tip says “daze” but hitting with the 0 range blowout should be a rather long stun effectively, plus damage after that….. so when does BV get its CD lowered?

I wish the second strike of the staff auto attack had endurance gain on it like daggers. Straight damage on the 3 hits is pretty underwhelming and endurance gain on it would have fit the set thematically. It has a couple of gap closers, an evade, and a blind, but no stealth, no poison, and no endurance regen, so I think it will lose out to D/P the same way S/X does.

Edit: That said, I would probably take the line for the traits/utilities and just use a different weapon set.

If it’s true, they nerfed acrobatics and then took a lot of suggestions on how to fix acrobatics but put it into this line instead. That both makes me happy and annoyed because there was no reason to gut acrobatics for this. As it is, acrobatics still offers nothing that this line simply wouldn’t do better.

dsslive.8473:

I like the name daredevil, tbh. Hope it sticks.

I see what you did there.

arenta.2953:

Halan.7931:

arenta.2953:

keep in mind the weight of the weapons. warhammer is designed to bring all that weight down on the blow.

If we’re talking about real warhammers and not ingame abominations, they weren’t very heavy. Here’s a reproduction of Two handed hammer http://www.myarmoury.com/othr_aa_bec.html
verall length: 59"
Weight: 3.75 pounds
Width of head: 7.25"
Top spike: 7" long
Beak: 3.75" long

One handed maces could weight 1-1.5 kgs.

So staff with both metal ends is comparable in weight, but has a high momentum due to length. The only difference between staff and real warhammer is that staff is blunt, while warhammer – pointed.

try a 2 handed warhammer

not a 1 handed

also your first one is a pole axe
aka piercing. not blunt

2h warhammer is just that. a giant hammer ment for war.

http://zweilawyer.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/combact-becorbin.jpg

I gotta say, that looks like a staff with a fancy metal cap on the end.

arenta.2953:

Maugetarr.6823:

arenta.2953:

Slowmelt.8547:

arenta.2953:

Slowmelt.8547:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Blunt weapons are not significantly better against heavy armor, that is a common misconception. Rapiers are specially made against heavy armor. A well-made rapier can even pierce a heavy armor, otherwise the wielder will try to find weak points on the armor and exploit it — which mean, it can deal critical damage.

Blunt weapons, on the other hand, can only stop the heavy armored target by knocking the target down — not necessarily dealing damage — critical or otherwise. Critical hits from blunt weapons are only possible against non-heavy armor target.

Instead of a full response, I will simply provide you a link to a video of an untrained, unfit man with a cheap hammer turning both historical and modern helmets into scrap:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=CZEAcTaogVY#t=161

Blunt weapons of various types were specifically used to counter armor because armor padding provides very little aid when the armor crumples in on you.
More importantly, staves used properly can strike just as hard as hammers.

until the staff breaks in half cause its wood

and the hammer continues smashing cause its metal

You really ought not underestimate wood as a material.
It is very stern stuff.

sure its sturdy…..but it doesnt last as long as metal.

and if you wack it against hard stuff like rocks or armor. its going to cause less dmg than a warhammer or mace.
and break before the warhammer or mace. (while warhammer and mace will mostly just get a few dents)

Wouldn’t metal endpieces (like those shown on the artwork) solve that problem?

nope. they lack the MAJOR important factors that make warhammer effective.

aka WEIGHT.

the staff is low weight. so when you swing, theres ALOT less force behind that.

when a warhammer swings, theres so much weight on that warhead, that even holding on to the weapon is hard. and when it hits. all that force is so great, and so focused on the warhead. that it HITS HARD

the metal on the staff only stops it from splintering
but it will still snap in half.

Um, I mean, kinetic energy sees squared increases with velocity and linear increases with mass, so a stick weighing 1 kg in the end with the end traveling at 2m/s would be the same as a mace with 4 kg in the head being swung at 1 m/s. There’s probably some ideal weight where you could optimize your velocity versus the weight of the staff to get the most impact out of it.

arenta.2953:

Slowmelt.8547:

arenta.2953:

Slowmelt.8547:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Blunt weapons are not significantly better against heavy armor, that is a common misconception. Rapiers are specially made against heavy armor. A well-made rapier can even pierce a heavy armor, otherwise the wielder will try to find weak points on the armor and exploit it — which mean, it can deal critical damage.

Blunt weapons, on the other hand, can only stop the heavy armored target by knocking the target down — not necessarily dealing damage — critical or otherwise. Critical hits from blunt weapons are only possible against non-heavy armor target.

Instead of a full response, I will simply provide you a link to a video of an untrained, unfit man with a cheap hammer turning both historical and modern helmets into scrap:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=CZEAcTaogVY#t=161

Blunt weapons of various types were specifically used to counter armor because armor padding provides very little aid when the armor crumples in on you.
More importantly, staves used properly can strike just as hard as hammers.

until the staff breaks in half cause its wood

and the hammer continues smashing cause its metal

You really ought not underestimate wood as a material.
It is very stern stuff.

sure its sturdy…..but it doesnt last as long as metal.

and if you wack it against hard stuff like rocks or armor. its going to cause less dmg than a warhammer or mace.
and break before the warhammer or mace. (while warhammer and mace will mostly just get a few dents)

Wouldn’t metal endpieces (like those shown on the artwork) solve that problem?