Guild Wars 2

kevvy.5081:

Mcrocha.3891:

Zatoichi.1049:

Mcrocha.3891:

Are you kidding? If he posted today or yesterday he would get flamed so hard by this community for no actual reason. He has given the Ranger good changes and yet everyone here would want his head because of this stupid WHaO debacle. I don’t think it’s any surprise that the debs don’t want to post on the forums bc people just scream bloody murder all the time. Have you seen how a lot of the guardian or thief community for example treats Karl when he posts there? Would get annoying real quick when you’re just trying to help.

I don’t think anyone would blame irenio, I think at this point we all know Roy was in charge of the nerf, and it was most likely Irenio that did the buff. In the eyes of the ranger community, Irenio is a good man

Or people would see the Red and treat it like blood in the water. It has happened all too many times in the past and I see no reason why it wouldn’t happen again.

At this point the only person who needs to calm down is you. You’re over reacting. Thief community was about has toxic as the rangers forum yesterday but when Karl posted a comment everyone behaved. So will we, we just want a Dev to reply is all.

I’ll “calm down”, although I can assure you I am very calm, when I stop getting flamed by people on this board who insult me constantly, disregard evidence when I provide it and proceed to call me a liar because they don’t agree with the facts that I provide, or tell me to go back to another class forum despite the fact that Ranger is the class I have logged 99% play time on, and yet am able to remain partial and unbiased. These are the same people, mind you, who flocked to the forums and moaned and groaned when Druid was announced for reasons like “this isn’t WoW”, or “I don’t want to be a healer”, and overall dismissed the spec without even giving it a chance to work.

These people don’t actually care about the WHaO issue, they are just using it as leverage to prop up their argument and justify the extreme QQ directed at Anet.

Zatoichi.1049:

Mcrocha.3891:

Belial.9350:

It’s still stronger than it was 2 weeks ago…

Exactly this. Before the patch everyone thought it would logically work like Fortifying Bond and thus would be a nice little buff to a skill that didn’t need to be changed at all. Since there was an oversight however, and WHaO was buffed to unintended levels, the majority of the people posting on the forums seem to believe that they were done some major injustice. Much a do about nothing really.

its an irrelevant buff dude, kinda live MDG, and the historic aquaman buffs

No it’s not dude. You’re blinded by the state it was in before it was nerfed. You need to think of it this way: Before patch WHaO was a strong burst heal on a 16s cd that also provides swiftness and regen. It needed zero changes as the heal was fine the way it was. The overbuffed state of WHaO made it 10x better than any other heal Rangers had.

The buff it has now is extremely welcome to a heal that needed no changes. People are complaining and they are using this as a strawman to throw shade at Anet. Literally people are complaining because one of our heal skills got buffs that it didn’t need. If it’s worthless now then why don’t they just revert it back to what it was pre-patch. Guess we don’t even need the might it gives, or short duration of the boons since they are obviously worthless.

Kitty.1502:

Dradiin.8935:

Kitty.1502:

While ranger base will never be fixed, at least we can be heal bots. I am excited to be a heal bot assuming it is going to be viable.

Get used to “Shut Up and Heal”

its ok healing will only be useful in raids and potentially wvw (I have my doubts as do others about this)

Burst healing can be useful in pvp as well for sure. It is also useful for the probable 75% of people who play this game casually that like to run whatever builds they like and being able to heal their friends or something will make a lot of people happy in general pve content.

Zatoichi.1049:

Mcrocha.3891:

Are you kidding? If he posted today or yesterday he would get flamed so hard by this community for no actual reason. He has given the Ranger good changes and yet everyone here would want his head because of this stupid WHaO debacle. I don’t think it’s any surprise that the debs don’t want to post on the forums bc people just scream bloody murder all the time. Have you seen how a lot of the guardian or thief community for example treats Karl when he posts there? Would get annoying real quick when you’re just trying to help.

I don’t think anyone would blame irenio, I think at this point we all know Roy was in charge of the nerf, and it was most likely Irenio that did the buff. In the eyes of the ranger community, Irenio is a good man

Or people would see the Red and treat it like blood in the water. It has happened all too many times in the past and I see no reason why it wouldn’t happen again.

Belial.9350:

It’s still stronger than it was 2 weeks ago…

Exactly this. Before the patch everyone thought it would logically work like Fortifying Bond and thus would be a nice little buff to a skill that didn’t need to be changed at all. Since there was an oversight however, and WHaO was buffed to unintended levels, the majority of the people posting on the forums seem to believe that they were done some major injustice. Much a do about nothing really.

ReaperJr.5967:

Puck.9612:

ReaperJr.5967:

Puck.9612:

ReaperJr.5967:

What is it that the ranger community want from the devs to make ranger viable, exactly?

Better pet control
Better pet pathing
Access to boon stripping
Access to a teleport

Ai overhaul. Agreed.
Pathing changes. Agreed.
Access to boon stripping..? Specify?
Access to teleport is questionable too.

What do you mean specify? The ability to strip boons from other players, what is hard to understand about that?
And a teleport is needed. Rangers compete for a role with thieves and mesmers who are both able to strip boons from might/protection stacking brawler specs, and who can both teleport, which gives them a ridiculously huge advantage when it comes to rotating.

Thieves and mesmers would still have the advantage of bringing a higher burst and being able to hop into stealth to disengage. And unless they really fixed pets, rangers would still have the disadvantage of losing a big chunk of their cc and dps to pets that don’t know how to hop off a ledge or over a small fence. But this would at least give rangers a chance at being competitive.

Specify as in how would you want it implemented? It’s easy to say, I want this, I want that, but give no constructive ways to implement it.

As for teleports, I think it gives just a little too much of an advantage to rangers given their bursting range. They’re mobile enough as it is.

I disagree with this point completely. When the undoubted king of mobility and bursting (thief) can gap close incredibly quickly, especially with steal for instance for 1200 range shadowsteps, rangers are not “mobile enough as it is”.

As to how to implement it, it would be very easy to do so, I proposed in another thread to add a second skill chain to Sic Em that lets the ranger teleport to the pet when activated. One cannot easily escape certain classes that dominate the meta so I don’t see why one should be able to easily escape Ranger.

Kitty.1502:

Mcrocha.3891:

Chicho Gosho.6507:

Mcrocha.3891:

Are you kidding? If he posted today or yesterday he would get flamed so hard by this community for no actual reason. He has given the Ranger good changes and yet everyone here would want his head because of this stupid WHaO debacle. I don’t think it’s any surprise that the debs don’t want to post on the forums bc people just scream bloody murder all the time. Have you seen how a lot of the guardian or thief community for example treats Karl when he posts there? Would get annoying real quick when you’re just trying to help.

If you look at Gaile’s posts you will see that they are followed with positive comments.

Actually there were quite a few people responding to her demanding that the actual devs post and not her. Ofc most people are nice to Gaile, she poses no target for anyone to direct their ire at. A balance dev on the other hand would be bombarded with hateful statements and whining.

Dev doesn’t even need to speak to specific people, a post detailing how they plan to fix rangers would go a long way. Right now we have been sitting in the dark for 3 years, and people like me are getting annoyed because while we sit and wait to be fixed for years others are not only getting fixed they are getting a road map.

No, no, no you don’t understand. They don’t have to address specific people because no matter what they say half of this forum will cry. And then if the devs actually wanted to have meaningful discussion with some people, they wouldn’t be able to do so because all the haters would flock to the thread and nuke it with vitriol.

Imagine if you’re looking for feedback on a certain change, but every other post brings up some unrelated garbage that detracts from real discussion and makes it difficult to both read through and differentiate legitimate feedback from feedback of salty people.

Not to mention the fact that I don’t think they necessarily want to hear feedback from the same people who are complaining so much about WHaO, when in the devs opinion it was clearly not working as they intended it to. All that shows is that a lot of people on this board would be ok with making unchecked changes to the class that could easily be unbalanced and very unobjectively supported.

Chicho Gosho.6507:

Mcrocha.3891:

Are you kidding? If he posted today or yesterday he would get flamed so hard by this community for no actual reason. He has given the Ranger good changes and yet everyone here would want his head because of this stupid WHaO debacle. I don’t think it’s any surprise that the debs don’t want to post on the forums bc people just scream bloody murder all the time. Have you seen how a lot of the guardian or thief community for example treats Karl when he posts there? Would get annoying real quick when you’re just trying to help.

If you look at Gaile’s posts you will see that they are followed with positive comments.

Actually there were quite a few people responding to her demanding that the actual devs post and not her. Ofc most people are nice to Gaile, she poses no target for anyone to direct their ire at. A balance dev on the other hand would be bombarded with hateful statements and whining.

Are you kidding? If he posted today or yesterday he would get flamed so hard by this community for no actual reason. He has given the Ranger good changes and yet everyone here would want his head because of this stupid WHaO debacle. I don’t think it’s any surprise that the debs don’t want to post on the forums bc people just scream bloody murder all the time. Have you seen how a lot of the guardian or thief community for example treats Karl when he posts there? Would get annoying real quick when you’re just trying to help.

OGDeadHead.8326:

Chokolata.1870:

Search and rescue:
- it will either rally an ally or stomp a foe

PvP use only, not sure about that.

It has the same functionality it does now except it has the added effect of downing enemies which is the only pvp only part(I believe there are foes you can down in pve as well though)

Yep tl;dr on the whole Ranger forum is that people are upset because a HEAL skill was elevated to imba for a day and then rightfully nerfed back to rational status as a heal skill whose primary effect is to heal and not stack mega boon duration, and then they got upset about a skill receiving a buff that it didn’t even have originally.

Puck.9612:

Mcrocha.3891:

Puck.9612:

As for the quote….

My argument would be that it is not intended for the Ranger to easily get 25 stacks of might like other classes. Seriously people need to stop comparing the Ranger to other classes and saying stuff like its not fair that “x class can do y and Rangers can’t”. If you want every class to be the same so badly then try a different game. Furthermore, if this is what you want so badly then I don’t see the problem with the current meta and everyone just rolling d/d eles since they’re all the same.

Close enough for ya?

Well if you actually had a quote then why didn’t you use it haha? But anyway here’s what I’ll tell you, if you go back and look for the context of that quote then you would see that someone asked me what Anets argument would be as to why Rangers cannot stack boons like other classes. That is not my own opinion, that is what I said that their argument would most likely be. And you know why I know that that is Anets opinion? Because that’s what Roy actually said in some of his tweets. Once again, using evidence here. It really is tiresome.

Again, Roy is one of the dev’s that was making “machine gun wielding bear bow” jokes and on the fly balance decisions that turned MDG into a GM trait, and most recently made another snap decision (less than 24 kittening hours) to nerf into the dirt the one interesting change we have gotten in 6 months.

This is not someone you quote as evidence. This is the example you use of what not to do.

Probably so man, but all I’m saying is that is what he thinks and he’s a dev. What we think doesn’t really matter. Let’s agree to disagree ok? I’m going to sleep now.

Puck.9612:

As for the quote….

My argument would be that it is not intended for the Ranger to easily get 25 stacks of might like other classes. Seriously people need to stop comparing the Ranger to other classes and saying stuff like its not fair that “x class can do y and Rangers can’t”. If you want every class to be the same so badly then try a different game. Furthermore, if this is what you want so badly then I don’t see the problem with the current meta and everyone just rolling d/d eles since they’re all the same.

Close enough for ya?

Well if you actually had a quote then why didn’t you use it haha? But anyway here’s what I’ll tell you, if you go back and look for the context of that quote then you would see that someone asked me what Anets argument would be as to why Rangers cannot stack boons like other classes. That is not my own opinion, that is what I said that their argument would most likely be. And you know why I know that that is Anets opinion? Because that’s what Roy actually said in some of his tweets. Once again, using evidence here. It really is tiresome.

Puck.9612:

Mcrocha.3891:

I guess the forums don’t show years anymore. But it is:
January a couple of years ago. If you’ll notice the second to last post is about how guard used to have the functionality way back when of allowing pets to scale walls in wvw, but you probably don’t care.

Edit: actually you just have to click on the time stamp and it will show years, but again you probably don’t care

You know what, you are right, I don’t care. None of that justifies spreading misinformation across as many threads as you could so you could see something that you didn’t care for get nerfed into uselessness.
With how long ranger has been underpowered anyone that really cared about the class would be trying to get it the buffs it needs to be competitive. They wouldn’t be saying stupid crap like, “Ranger shouldn’t be able to stack might because every other class can and I don’t want all the classes to be the same.”

Misattributing things to me now I see. Is that an actual quote by me because I don’t remember saying it haha, probably because I didn’t. But anyway I don’t know how you can claim that I didn’t care for WHaO since it is the very first thing I tested out on patch day. Probably another case of you attributing ideas to me that I have never actually held. Idc about Ranger being UP, I was rolling full glass lb build before hunters shot buff, rf buff, and auto damage scaling at range buff. I play Ranger because I genuinely enjoy playing it and don’t give a crap when I’ve gotten cheesed by the latest FoTM builds over the years.

It’s funny actually because eles were mediocre in the roaming scene for quite awhile until d/d came to be and then they had to nerf it because people qq too much, so they changed Ride the Lightning and Updraft iirc. But now they’re back. FoTM builds come and go, but my enjoyment and the happiness from playing Ranger has remained this whole time.

All the old players on the forums who had such great ideas and feedback just don’t play or care anymore and have stopped posting because Ranger has been relegated to bottom tier since forever(except the spirit phase, that was funny with all the qq) and the players are left with the impression that Ranger isn’t meant to be good. One day, all of the people on here who are screaming for Anets throats will stop posting too. And that’s ok bc at the end of the day all that matters is whether you enjoy playing the class since it’s just a game after all.

End soliloquy I suppose.

Shadelang.3012:

Mcrocha.3891:

^
I like area denial on Guard. Cool concept to have the pet do more damage in an area and say knockdown enemies who try to cross into the area or something.

I feel a knockback would be far too powerful. Especially on a skill with a low cooldown. However. A soft cc like cripple won’t spell instant death. But it WILL have the potential of further increasing your destructive power with synergy to traits like predator’s onslaught.

That’s true I didn’t think of the cd on Guard. Good point. But cripple is just not very strong, unless it was like a 6+second cripple. I feel like knockdown could be ok if it could only occur once.

Elxdark.9702:

Mcrocha.3891:

Elxdark.9702:

Lopez.7369:

If the build didn’t work, then why does it matter that it got nerfed?

it’s not because it was nerfed but how it was.

less than 24 hours to nerf a skill which what wasn’t even used in pvp, it wasn’t broken as some people said.

How can you know it wasn’t used in pvp when it was only around for 24 hours? lol

ok let’s say people used it so what?

Actually I was using it, but it was worse than ranger meta build.
No condi cleanse, break stun each 60s little support to team, but quickness, quickness was so op 30s I was a god.

The heal itself was/is bad the buff was good enough to try now it’s nerfed so it’s kitteneless heal again because troll is so much better.

You could literally just run the meta build and slot WHaO over TU and take Zephyrs Speed over Beastly Warden. The meta could’ve shifted towards that, but we won’t know because it wasn’t around long enough.

^
I like area denial on Guard. Cool concept to have the pet do more damage in an area and say knockdown enemies who try to cross into the area or something.

I guess the forums don’t show years anymore. But it is:
January a couple of years ago. If you’ll notice the second to last post is about how guard used to have the functionality way back when of allowing pets to scale walls in wvw, but you probably don’t care.

Edit: actually you just have to click on the time stamp and it will show years, but again you probably don’t care

Nothing but strawmans and ad hominem on here jeez.

Puck.9612:

Mcrocha.3891:

Puck.9612:

Mcrocha.3891:

TheFantasticGman.9451:

Because they are trash builds… Except for that one day, you remember, when WHaO would copy boons like a boss? Yeah, that was a very good day when a NM build wasn’t trash.

And if you don’t want to be called a lar don’t tell lies. It’s pretty simple. You said it’s been on meta battle awhile, it hasn’t. It’s been on there all of one day. That’s the lie.

No the meta build has been there quite some time. It just changed out one trait line. Really stop arguing this point, it’s dumb. The same exact meta build that uses the same exact rotation had one trait line swapped because WHaO was too good. The whole argument was whether or not you could get perma 25 stacks of might with WHaO before it was nerfed and I proved that you could in fact do so, and it matched the meta build minus swapping axe for warhorn which is a marginal dps increase.

Please actually have an argument. Idk how you’re not getting infractions for just constantly flaming me, but it really is getting annoying.

You are ignoring this

This assumes some kind of impossible situation where you are never not swapping to a stalker since it will be 32 seconds between the applications of mighty roar (not counting the 3s cast time) if one were to keep zephyr’s speed on cool down.

-Swap to Stalker, Proc zephyr for 15s, Proc Roar for 22s
-Swap again to Proc zephyr for 15s, Roar has 6s left
-Swap back to Stalker, Roar has been expired for 10 seconds and needs another 3 seconds to reapply.

It is not possible to swap to the next pet and back to the stalker before Mighty Roar expires.

and the fact that even if it was possible on paper it was completely unviable in a fight.

I am not ignoring it I just didn’t see it(hard when multiple people are replying to you at once). The extra 5 stacks are easily made up for with an extra sigil of battle and something like sigil of strength or runesets that apply might and might duration(strength for example) too tired to show math but rationally you will see it makes up for it. Furthermore, one of the main reasons it was nerfed as stated by Roy on Twitter was it was not intended to stack such long durations especially with ALLIES stacking boons on you. It doesn’t matter whether or not it was viable in a fight in pvp, because the argument was whether or not you could actually stack 25 might, say in pve environment, and you could do so.

Originally before I got in this dumb little kittening contest I didn’t think the skill was balanced because of the durations of Quickness you get which is much more viable in pvp(and would still stack probably about ~12 stacks of might pretty well.

Everyone already has 25 stacks of might in PvE because all it takes is having 1 ele or warrior in the party. That argument is as ridiculous as the rest of the terrible arguments you have made.

SOLO bud. Solo.

Puck.9612:

TheFantasticGman.9451:

Mcrocha.3891:

TheFantasticGman.9451:

Because they are trash builds… Except for that one day, you remember, when WHaO would copy boons like a boss? Yeah, that was a very good day when a NM build wasn’t trash.

And if you don’t want to be called a lar don’t tell lies. It’s pretty simple. You said it’s been on meta battle awhile, it hasn’t. It’s been on there all of one day. That’s the lie.

No the meta build has been there quite some time. It just changed out one trait line.

You’re right. It is dumb to try to show you where you lied because youre blinders are strong… Anyway, the point, so everyone knows, was the 20% boon duration in the meta build he reference which you get from NM only. Stating the build on meta battle has been there for “quite some time” is simply not true if you look through the history that is easy to see. Without said 20% boon duration there is no perma might self applied in a DPS build with BM that was there on meta battle 48 hours ago.

Yeah he clearly ignores anything that shows he is wrong. I honestly don’t know what he’s still doing here, he already got his ranger nerf. Shouldn’t he be moving on to another class to cry about? I heard thief got a pistol buff, P/P will still be a terrible build but I’m sure it is blowing up some noobs, maybe Mcrocha can go get that nerfed too.

Nah I’m just not replying to that guy anymore he literally only flames me, but it appears you do the same thing. GG I guess. Just for fun you can go on my posting history and look back and see which class forum I post on and have posted on for three years and then get back to me about telling me to go to other class forums. KThxBai

Puck.9612:

Mcrocha.3891:

TheFantasticGman.9451:

Because they are trash builds… Except for that one day, you remember, when WHaO would copy boons like a boss? Yeah, that was a very good day when a NM build wasn’t trash.

And if you don’t want to be called a lar don’t tell lies. It’s pretty simple. You said it’s been on meta battle awhile, it hasn’t. It’s been on there all of one day. That’s the lie.

No the meta build has been there quite some time. It just changed out one trait line. Really stop arguing this point, it’s dumb. The same exact meta build that uses the same exact rotation had one trait line swapped because WHaO was too good. The whole argument was whether or not you could get perma 25 stacks of might with WHaO before it was nerfed and I proved that you could in fact do so, and it matched the meta build minus swapping axe for warhorn which is a marginal dps increase.

Please actually have an argument. Idk how you’re not getting infractions for just constantly flaming me, but it really is getting annoying.

You are ignoring this

This assumes some kind of impossible situation where you are never not swapping to a stalker since it will be 32 seconds between the applications of mighty roar (not counting the 3s cast time) if one were to keep zephyr’s speed on cool down.

-Swap to Stalker, Proc zephyr for 15s, Proc Roar for 22s
-Swap again to Proc zephyr for 15s, Roar has 6s left
-Swap back to Stalker, Roar has been expired for 10 seconds and needs another 3 seconds to reapply.

It is not possible to swap to the next pet and back to the stalker before Mighty Roar expires.

and the fact that even if it was possible on paper it was completely unviable in a fight.

I am not ignoring it I just didn’t see it(hard when multiple people are replying to you at once). The extra 5 stacks are easily made up for with an extra sigil of battle and something like sigil of strength or runesets that apply might and might duration(strength for example) too tired to show math but rationally you will see it makes up for it. Furthermore, one of the main reasons it was nerfed as stated by Roy on Twitter was it was not intended to stack such long durations especially with ALLIES stacking boons on you. It doesn’t matter whether or not it was viable in a fight in pvp, because the argument was whether or not you could actually stack 25 might, say in pve environment, and you could do so.

Originally before I got in this dumb little kittening contest I didn’t think the skill was balanced because of the durations of Quickness you get which is much more viable in pvp(and would still stack probably about ~12 stacks of might pretty well.

Otaur.9268:

Mcrocha.3891:

Gaile Gray.6029:

kevvy.5081:

Mcrocha.3891:

Look at all the red posts. Let this night go down in history as The Ranger Riots of 1328 AE.

And rightly so.

Nothing will turn eyes away faster than a riot. Don’t even go there! (Even if you were kidding, which I hope you were. )

Let’s provide actual, gameplay-based feedback and look for changes in the future. But let’s not post to be rude, comment to add nothing, or repeat endlessly the same reactions. Give details, give solid input, that’s what we should do. And yes, “we” includes… me!

Haha yeah I was joking sorry. The change to WHaO originally was too much imo and I think that the current functionality is a nice little buff to a heal that was in a decent place before it received any changes at all. Am fine with the change.

I am sorry, but after 3 years the Ranger got a decent buff and you complained until it was changed within 24 hours… Sure it needed a little bit of shaving, but after 24 hours they destroyed this skill.

On the other hand, if Ranger is not supposed to boon stack by sacrificing 99% of condi removal, then why can elementalist stack so many boons and survive and damage.

Why can mesmers basically 1 shot people with a GS / Mind wrack combo doing almost 20k damage?

The way to fix this skill was not by making it near worthless, but by shaving it, SLOWLY… Funny thing is, I have played since headstart and ANet says they do not make knee jerk reactions to balance…

I didn’t complain about anything, I simply pointed out that WHaO was op. Read the very first post in this thread and look at what word I ended my statement with.

TheFantasticGman.9451:

Because they are trash builds… Except for that one day, you remember, when WHaO would copy boons like a boss? Yeah, that was a very good day when a NM build wasn’t trash.

And if you don’t want to be called a lar don’t tell lies. It’s pretty simple. You said it’s been on meta battle awhile, it hasn’t. It’s been on there all of one day. That’s the lie.

No the meta build has been there quite some time. It just changed out one trait line. Really stop arguing this point, it’s dumb. The same exact meta build that uses the same exact rotation had one trait line swapped because WHaO was too good. The whole argument was whether or not you could get perma 25 stacks of might with WHaO before it was nerfed and I proved that you could in fact do so, and it matched the meta build minus swapping axe for warhorn which is a marginal dps increase.

Please actually have an argument. Idk how you’re not getting infractions for just constantly flaming me, but it really is getting annoying.

TheFantasticGman.9451:

Don’t be mad I’m calling you out on the lie that NM was a meta battle build for more than a day. Truth hurts, doesn’kitten If you’re willing to lie about that, bluntly, to try to prove your point, how much else are you willing to lie about to prove your point?

I mean I’m not lying that the build you see was considered the Meta build with WHaO before it was nerfed. You are lying to yourself if you don’t understand that. Furthermore, your original point was that any build that had NM in it was a TRASH build, I repeat, a TRASH build. You can’t escape what you already wrote man.

I’m not going to keep arguing with you though if all you do is call me a liar every time I provide evidence of something.

Elxdark.9702:

Lopez.7369:

If the build didn’t work, then why does it matter that it got nerfed?

it’s not because it was nerfed but how it was.

less than 24 hours to nerf a skill which what wasn’t even used in pvp, it wasn’t broken as some people said.

How can you know it wasn’t used in pvp when it was only around for 24 hours? lol

TheFantasticGman.9451:

Mcrocha, anyone can easily see you’ve lost all crediability. Please, do yourself a favor, exit stage right before you do any more damage to yourself.

If anyone was wondering, before 1 day ago that the build was posted on Metabattle they had Beast Mastery as the last line.

Ok and what is your point. You said two posts ago, that it was a “TRASH BUILD”. Please stop flaming me, you’re just being confrontational for no reason.

TheFantasticGman.9451:

Mcrocha.3891:

TheFantasticGman.9451:

Mcrocha.3891:

TheFantasticGman.9451:

Mcrocha.3891:

TheFantasticGman.9451:

I don’t run boon duration on my DPS ranger, Mcrocha. It was strictly used for spikes. I could not have permanent might stacks. Even in groups with a EA PS war and two eles, one being d/d.

Even in your scenerio, Mcrocha, that’s still not permanent unless you don’t mean lasts for ever.

NM gives 20% boon duration. And permanent means it can just be reapplied before the cd comes back up.

If you’re running NM you’re running a crap build for PVE, which is why I said I don’t run boon duration. You’re not going to have the stats for 25 might stacks to matter anyway if you’re running NM ‘cause likely you’re not running dps gear…. because why you run dps gear and not dps boosting trait lines? That’d be a waste. So, yeah, no boon duration.

The meta build would disagree with you.
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Ranger_-_S/A_LB_Spotter

NEWSFLASH: that build is no longer valid. Did you see the posting date? Of course you didn’t. Get that trash outta here now.

How is it no longer valid, it has been the meta build for quite some time.

If by “quite some time” you mean one day, then yeah, you’re right. But back in reality where we all live, no, that only came into existence with the pre-nerfed whao. I mean, you can live in fantasy land and pretend it has been meta if you want but everyone knows you’re lying.

LOL dont embarass yourself. It was modified today, but that doesn’t mean it was posted today. If you care to check, you can go on the view history option of the page in the top right corner and see for yourself since I am obviously lying.

Edit: grammar

Tapioca.9062:

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Oberon Vex.1389:

Mcrocha.3891:

Oberon Vex.1389:

PSSST. That is 16 permanent stax of might.

Right, but we were arguing base stacks.

Yeah. My point was there are 16 stax of might that the ranger can maintain without WHaO on a permanent basis.

5 from JG stalker (Naturemagic + Beastmastery = 22s duration on a 20s CD)
3 from Call of the Wild Warhorn (Windborne Notes + Strength runes = 24s duration on a 24s cd)
3 from Clarion Bond (24s duration 24s CD)
2 from Sigil of battle (20s duration on a 9s CD)
3 Zephyr’s Speed (15s duration on a 15s CD)

These are all maintainable with moderate build sacrifice, before using WHaO to double the stax for their duration, meaning you could have had permanent 25 stax of might with the “old” WHaO (or close enough to not matter).

Sort of proved your argument for you, but I’ll butt out if you want…

The main issue here I see is the three second cast time of the Jungle Stalker’s roar. A 22s duration against a 20s cooldown and 3s cast time mean that you lose the stack unless you spec in for it.

It will cast it faster with Quickness.

Unless you can get that roar off in the .5 second duration left on the boon you would still need to heavily trait in for in.

Idk man stop arguing it, the evidence has already been shown. Lets move the discussion more back on topic.

TheFantasticGman.9451:

Mcrocha.3891:

TheFantasticGman.9451:

Mcrocha.3891:

TheFantasticGman.9451:

I don’t run boon duration on my DPS ranger, Mcrocha. It was strictly used for spikes. I could not have permanent might stacks. Even in groups with a EA PS war and two eles, one being d/d.

Even in your scenerio, Mcrocha, that’s still not permanent unless you don’t mean lasts for ever.

NM gives 20% boon duration. And permanent means it can just be reapplied before the cd comes back up.

If you’re running NM you’re running a crap build for PVE, which is why I said I don’t run boon duration. You’re not going to have the stats for 25 might stacks to matter anyway if you’re running NM ‘cause likely you’re not running dps gear…. because why you run dps gear and not dps boosting trait lines? That’d be a waste. So, yeah, no boon duration.

The meta build would disagree with you.
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Ranger_-_S/A_LB_Spotter

NEWSFLASH: that build is no longer valid. Did you see the posting date? Of course you didn’t. Get that trash outta here now.

How is it no longer valid, it has been the meta build for quite some time.

Tapioca.9062:

Oberon Vex.1389:

Mcrocha.3891:

Oberon Vex.1389:

PSSST. That is 16 permanent stax of might.

Right, but we were arguing base stacks.

Yeah. My point was there are 16 stax of might that the ranger can maintain without WHaO on a permanent basis.

5 from JG stalker (Naturemagic + Beastmastery = 22s duration on a 20s CD)
3 from Call of the Wild Warhorn (Windborne Notes + Strength runes = 24s duration on a 24s cd)
3 from Clarion Bond (24s duration 24s CD)
2 from Sigil of battle (20s duration on a 9s CD)
3 Zephyr’s Speed (15s duration on a 15s CD)

These are all maintainable with moderate build sacrifice, before using WHaO to double the stax for their duration, meaning you could have had permanent 25 stax of might with the “old” WHaO (or close enough to not matter).

Sort of proved your argument for you, but I’ll butt out if you want…

The main issue here I see is the three second cast time of the Jungle Stalker’s roar. A 22s duration against a 20s cooldown and 3s cast time mean that you lose the stack unless you spec in for it.

It will cast it faster with Quickness.

Tapioca.9062:

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

If it only lasts one rotation it isn’t permanent. That’s essentially the exact opposite of permanent’s meaning. Your initial argument was that the Ranger could maintain permanent stacks of max might due to WHaO. There are certainly ways for a Ranger to get high stacks of might but this isn’t due to WHaO. We’re getting into the land of shifting goalposts here so let’s bring it back to the original point: There was no reason to put a 3 stack might cap on WHaO. It was not the problem with the skill.

You simply ignored all of the other sources I gave you evidence for, I am not shifting the goal posts. I demonstrated how to maintain 8 base stacks permanently with an occasional spike up from Mighty Roar or teammates stacking might as well.

Teammates stacking might on you is completely irrelevant to the question. They can stack might on you all day without WHaO. It has nothing to do with WHaO. As for 8 stacks of might? It’s nothing. 16 stacks of might? That’s a good start. But your argument was that a Ranger using WHaO could permanently maintain 25 stacks of might. This is incorrect and has been shown to be incorrect.

The group stacking was evidence of how the might stack could be topped off to 25.
Thanks to a little reminder from Oberon.
5 from JG stalker (Naturemagic + Beastmastery = 22s duration on a 20s CD)
3 from Call of the Wild Warhorn (Windborne Notes + Strength runes = 24s duration on a 24s cd)
3 from Clarion Bond (24s duration 24s CD)
2 from Sigil of battle (20s duration on a 9s CD)
3 Zephyr’s Speed (15s duration on a 15s CD)
These are all maintainable with moderate build sacrifice, before using WHaO to double the stax for their duration, meaning you could have had permanent 25 stax of might with the “old” WHaO (or close enough to not matter).
Sort of proved your argument for you, but I’ll butt out if you want…

I believe you are the one to have been proven incorrect. But Im going to sleep now.

Oberon Vex.1389:

Mcrocha.3891:

Oberon Vex.1389:

PSSST. That is 16 permanent stax of might.

Right, but we were arguing base stacks.

Yeah. My point was there are 16 stax of might that the ranger can maintain without WHaO on a permanent basis.

5 from JG stalker (Naturemagic + Beastmastery = 22s duration on a 20s CD)
3 from Call of the Wild Warhorn (Windborne Notes + Strength runes = 24s duration on a 24s cd)
3 from Clarion Bond (24s duration 24s CD)
2 from Sigil of battle (20s duration on a 9s CD)
3 Zephyr’s Speed (15s duration on a 15s CD)

These are all maintainable with moderate build sacrifice, before using WHaO to double the stax for their duration, meaning you could have had permanent 25 stax of might with the “old” WHaO (or close enough to not matter).

Sort of proved your argument for you, but I’ll butt out if you want…

By all means lend me a hand, I’m exhausted mentally and tired of getting ganged up on in this thread. Massive example of group think in action going on.

Puck.9612:

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Why in name of all that was good and kind was Might transferring capped? I can understand fixing a bug that lets you infinitely stack boons but Might wasn’t one of those boons affected since it stacks in intensity, not duration. It was literally never a part of the problem here. The best you could do was gain a big stack of might for a few seconds, burst and then watch it trickle away. The response here wasn’t a fix, this was butchery.

Rangers have several ways to apply long duration might stacks like 15s on Clarion Bond. It was very possible to have big stacks of might for around 15s consistently.

That’s still not a problem though. Exactly the opposite of a problem. That is a good use of boons, and it’s time limited. The problem was that you could infinitely stack every single stacks duration boon permanently. That’s not okay, but completely gutting the skill and putting a hard cap on a boon that wasn’t part of the problem is above and beyond overkill.

Well yes, but when you have things that can apply 15s of might that becomes permanent with WHaO if you have some boon duration, meaning that you could in fact get an infinite amount of might duration at 25 stacks.

No, it doesn’t. Because when you combine might stacks with WHaO you get more might until you hit the cap. When you combine say, protection stacks, you get more protection time until it builds onto itself over and over where it eventually reaches the duration cap of ~8.5 minutes. Let’s say you and your pet have 10 stacks of might with 20 seconds duration each, you hit WHaO and you now have 20 stacks of might with 19 seconds duration (due to WHaO’s cast time), 16 seconds later you press WHaO again and now you have 25 stacks of might with 2 seconds of duration.

You cannot permanently keep up stacks intensity boons with WHaO. Stacks intensity boons like might were never a part of the problem here and there was no reason for them to be capped.

You can permanently keep up the might stacks from something that is applied for greater than 16s if it is reapplied. So that is indefinitely, and in doing so you can double the stacks from using WHaO. I think we are arguing different things.

We’re not arguing different things, it seems you don’t understand how the mechanics work. Let’s say you have 20 stacks of might with 2 seconds duration, then someone uses a buff that gives you 3 stacks of might for 15 seconds. Your tooltip hover will say you have 23 stacks of might for 15 seconds. In reality, you have 20 stacks of might for 2 seconds and 3 stacks of might for 15 seconds. After three seconds have passed you will have 3 stacks of might for 12 seconds. Reapplication of a stacks intensity boon does not refresh the duration of your existing stacks. They stack individually atop each other and are individually removed as their durations expire.

You could not infinitely keep up stacks intensity boons with WHaO. The problem was stacks duration boons and solely stacks duration boons.

Yes, but if you get 13 stacks of might for durations longer than 16s that are reapplied and use WHaO you will have perma 25 stacks.

Edit: it allowed minor might stacking to be more powerful than it should be, by doubling stacks.

And where are you pulling these supposed 13 stacks of might with at least 18 second durations from? And keep in mind their cooldowns need to be under the cooldown time of WHaO to be maintained permanently.

Let’s have a run down of a Ranger’s might sources:

Jungle Stalker, Mighty Roar: 5 stacks of might, 15 seconds base duration, 3 second cast time, 25 second cooldown. Not maintainable.

Hits from Strength of the Pack: 1 stack of might per hit, 8 seconds base duration, 1 second cast time, 60 second cooldown. Not maintainable.

Brutish Seals on Signet use: 3 stacks of might, 15 seconds base duration, 1 second cast time on Signet of the Wild, individual cooldown times of (80s, 60s, 60s, 30s). Not maintainable.

Under 50% health with Most Dangerous Game: 5 stacks of Might, 3 seconds duration, completely useless once you hit your heal button. Not maintainable.

Critical hit with Companion’s Might: 1 stack of might pet crit, 5 seconds base duration, unlisted ICD. Not maintainable.

Zephyr’s Speed on pet swap: 3 stacks of might, 15 seconds base duration, 20 second cooldown. Not maintainable.

Even if you slot every single trait and skill that gives you might, a Ranger cannot get 13 stacks of might on themself and their pet with a duration that exceeds the cooldown of WHaO and whose individual skill or trait cooldowns are low enough to be used consistently on the WHaO cooldown.

It was never possible for a Ranger to maintain permanent might on themselves with WHaO.

Maybe not 13, but 8 easily. Zephyrs Speed(16s with BM line) comboed with Clarion Bond is 6 stacks ~18s with NM line, sigil of battle weapon swap is 2 stacks. Second go around your Clarion Bond won’t be triggered bc ICD, but you could actually cast CotW. This is only including might that the Ranger could throw out. There’s also Mighty Roar from Jungle Stalker(might is perma with BM minors, but would only last one rotation I guess) and Might that teammates could apply. Very easily could maintain high stacks. Especially if say you were using Runes like Runes of Strength.

So just be in combat, swap pet, swap weapon, occasionally blast warhorn, use long channeled pet skill, and use your heal, drop your condi removal for marksmanship, all so you can not hit max stacks of might. Sounds perfectly reasonable.

I mean a basic combat rotation to maintain 16 stacks of might sounds reasonable to me.

Tapioca.9062:

If it only lasts one rotation it isn’t permanent. That’s essentially the exact opposite of permanent’s meaning. Your initial argument was that the Ranger could maintain permanent stacks of max might due to WHaO. There are certainly ways for a Ranger to get high stacks of might but this isn’t due to WHaO. We’re getting into the land of shifting goalposts here so let’s bring it back to the original point: There was no reason to put a 3 stack might cap on WHaO. It was not the problem with the skill.

You simply ignored all of the other sources I gave you evidence for, I am not shifting the goal posts. I demonstrated how to maintain 8 base stacks permanently with an occasional spike up from Mighty Roar or teammates stacking might as well.

Oberon Vex.1389:

PSSST. That is 16 permanent stax of might.

Right, but we were arguing base stacks.

TheFantasticGman.9451:

Mcrocha.3891:

TheFantasticGman.9451:

I don’t run boon duration on my DPS ranger, Mcrocha. It was strictly used for spikes. I could not have permanent might stacks. Even in groups with a EA PS war and two eles, one being d/d.

Even in your scenerio, Mcrocha, that’s still not permanent unless you don’t mean lasts for ever.

NM gives 20% boon duration. And permanent means it can just be reapplied before the cd comes back up.

If you’re running NM you’re running a crap build for PVE, which is why I said I don’t run boon duration. You’re not going to have the stats for 25 might stacks to matter anyway if you’re running NM ‘cause likely you’re not running dps gear…. because why you run dps gear and not dps boosting trait lines? That’d be a waste. So, yeah, no boon duration.

The meta build would disagree with you.
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Ranger_-_S/A_LB_Spotter

Tapioca.9062:

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Why in name of all that was good and kind was Might transferring capped? I can understand fixing a bug that lets you infinitely stack boons but Might wasn’t one of those boons affected since it stacks in intensity, not duration. It was literally never a part of the problem here. The best you could do was gain a big stack of might for a few seconds, burst and then watch it trickle away. The response here wasn’t a fix, this was butchery.

Rangers have several ways to apply long duration might stacks like 15s on Clarion Bond. It was very possible to have big stacks of might for around 15s consistently.

That’s still not a problem though. Exactly the opposite of a problem. That is a good use of boons, and it’s time limited. The problem was that you could infinitely stack every single stacks duration boon permanently. That’s not okay, but completely gutting the skill and putting a hard cap on a boon that wasn’t part of the problem is above and beyond overkill.

Well yes, but when you have things that can apply 15s of might that becomes permanent with WHaO if you have some boon duration, meaning that you could in fact get an infinite amount of might duration at 25 stacks.

No, it doesn’t. Because when you combine might stacks with WHaO you get more might until you hit the cap. When you combine say, protection stacks, you get more protection time until it builds onto itself over and over where it eventually reaches the duration cap of ~8.5 minutes. Let’s say you and your pet have 10 stacks of might with 20 seconds duration each, you hit WHaO and you now have 20 stacks of might with 19 seconds duration (due to WHaO’s cast time), 16 seconds later you press WHaO again and now you have 25 stacks of might with 2 seconds of duration.

You cannot permanently keep up stacks intensity boons with WHaO. Stacks intensity boons like might were never a part of the problem here and there was no reason for them to be capped.

You can permanently keep up the might stacks from something that is applied for greater than 16s if it is reapplied. So that is indefinitely, and in doing so you can double the stacks from using WHaO. I think we are arguing different things.

We’re not arguing different things, it seems you don’t understand how the mechanics work. Let’s say you have 20 stacks of might with 2 seconds duration, then someone uses a buff that gives you 3 stacks of might for 15 seconds. Your tooltip hover will say you have 23 stacks of might for 15 seconds. In reality, you have 20 stacks of might for 2 seconds and 3 stacks of might for 15 seconds. After three seconds have passed you will have 3 stacks of might for 12 seconds. Reapplication of a stacks intensity boon does not refresh the duration of your existing stacks. They stack individually atop each other and are individually removed as their durations expire.

You could not infinitely keep up stacks intensity boons with WHaO. The problem was stacks duration boons and solely stacks duration boons.

Yes, but if you get 13 stacks of might for durations longer than 16s that are reapplied and use WHaO you will have perma 25 stacks.

Edit: it allowed minor might stacking to be more powerful than it should be, by doubling stacks.

And where are you pulling these supposed 13 stacks of might with at least 18 second durations from? And keep in mind their cooldowns need to be under the cooldown time of WHaO to be maintained permanently.

Let’s have a run down of a Ranger’s might sources:

Jungle Stalker, Mighty Roar: 5 stacks of might, 15 seconds base duration, 3 second cast time, 25 second cooldown. Not maintainable.

Hits from Strength of the Pack: 1 stack of might per hit, 8 seconds base duration, 1 second cast time, 60 second cooldown. Not maintainable.

Brutish Seals on Signet use: 3 stacks of might, 15 seconds base duration, 1 second cast time on Signet of the Wild, individual cooldown times of (80s, 60s, 60s, 30s). Not maintainable.

Under 50% health with Most Dangerous Game: 5 stacks of Might, 3 seconds duration, completely useless once you hit your heal button. Not maintainable.

Critical hit with Companion’s Might: 1 stack of might pet crit, 5 seconds base duration, unlisted ICD. Not maintainable.

Zephyr’s Speed on pet swap: 3 stacks of might, 15 seconds base duration, 20 second cooldown. Not maintainable.

Even if you slot every single trait and skill that gives you might, a Ranger cannot get 13 stacks of might on themself and their pet with a duration that exceeds the cooldown of WHaO and whose individual skill or trait cooldowns are low enough to be used consistently on the WHaO cooldown.

It was never possible for a Ranger to maintain permanent might on themselves with WHaO.

Maybe not 13, but 8 easily. Zephyrs Speed(16s with BM line) comboed with Clarion Bond is 6 stacks ~18s with NM line, sigil of battle weapon swap is 2 stacks. Second go around your Clarion Bond won’t be triggered bc ICD, but you could actually cast CotW. This is only including might that the Ranger could throw out. There’s also Mighty Roar from Jungle Stalker(might is perma with BM minors, but would only last one rotation I guess) and Might that teammates could apply. Very easily could maintain high stacks. Especially if say you were using Runes like Runes of Strength.

TheFantasticGman.9451:

I don’t run boon duration on my DPS ranger, Mcrocha. It was strictly used for spikes. I could not have permanent might stacks. Even in groups with a EA PS war and two eles, one being d/d.

Even in your scenerio, Mcrocha, that’s still not permanent unless you don’t mean lasts for ever.

NM gives 20% boon duration. And permanent means it can just be reapplied before the cd comes back up.

Unholy Pillager.3791:

Mcrocha.3891:

Unholy Pillager.3791:

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Why in name of all that was good and kind was Might transferring capped? I can understand fixing a bug that lets you infinitely stack boons but Might wasn’t one of those boons affected since it stacks in intensity, not duration. It was literally never a part of the problem here. The best you could do was gain a big stack of might for a few seconds, burst and then watch it trickle away. The response here wasn’t a fix, this was butchery.

Rangers have several ways to apply long duration might stacks like 15s on Clarion Bond. It was very possible to have big stacks of might for around 15s consistently.

That’s still not a problem though. Exactly the opposite of a problem. That is a good use of boons, and it’s time limited. The problem was that you could infinitely stack every single stacks duration boon permanently. That’s not okay, but completely gutting the skill and putting a hard cap on a boon that wasn’t part of the problem is above and beyond overkill.

Well yes, but when you have things that can apply 15s of might that becomes permanent with WHaO if you have some boon duration, meaning that you could in fact get an infinite amount of might duration at 25 stacks.

No, it doesn’t. Because when you combine might stacks with WHaO you get more might until you hit the cap. When you combine say, protection stacks, you get more protection time until it builds onto itself over and over where it eventually reaches the duration cap of ~8.5 minutes. Let’s say you and your pet have 10 stacks of might with 20 seconds duration each, you hit WHaO and you now have 20 stacks of might with 19 seconds duration (due to WHaO’s cast time), 16 seconds later you press WHaO again and now you have 25 stacks of might with 2 seconds of duration.

You cannot permanently keep up stacks intensity boons with WHaO. Stacks intensity boons like might were never a part of the problem here and there was no reason for them to be capped.

You can permanently keep up the might stacks from something that is applied for greater than 16s if it is reapplied. So that is indefinitely, and in doing so you can double the stacks from using WHaO. I think we are arguing different things.

We’re not arguing different things, it seems you don’t understand how the mechanics work. Let’s say you have 20 stacks of might with 2 seconds duration, then someone uses a buff that gives you 3 stacks of might for 15 seconds. Your tooltip hover will say you have 23 stacks of might for 15 seconds. In reality, you have 20 stacks of might for 2 seconds and 3 stacks of might for 15 seconds. After three seconds have passed you will have 3 stacks of might for 12 seconds. Reapplication of a stacks intensity boon does not refresh the duration of your existing stacks. They stack individually atop each other and are individually removed as their durations expire.

You could not infinitely keep up stacks intensity boons with WHaO. The problem was stacks duration boons and solely stacks duration boons.

Yes, but if you get 13 stacks of might for durations longer than 16s that are reapplied and use WHaO you will have perma 25 stacks.

Edit: it allowed minor might stacking to be more powerful than it should be, by doubling stacks.

No, you won’t. After using WHaO the first time, you’ll have 25 stacks for a couple of seconds, tops. Then the might will expire, long before WHaO comes off of cooldown again. You seem to be misunderstanding the mechanics here.

If you get 13 stacks of might for 16+seconds and use WHaO you will have 25 stacks of might for 16s with half of the stacks expiring shortly before the other stacks because they were transferred after WHaO was cast. Therefore, if you keep reapplying the 13 stacks of 16s of might before you need to cast WHaO you can get the perma stacks. I understand how intensity stacking works.

No, because next time around they would no longer have 16 seconds left, they would be expiring.

13 stacks —> WHaO (25, ~16s left) --————-> (25, 2s left) WHaO —-—-> (25, 1s left)

You’re assuming that it would reset the duration back to 16s on the second use of WHaO. It would not.

I am not assuming that. You don’t understand what I am arguing.

Yes the initial round of stacked might expires I know, but if you reapply the original might stacks it will be perma.

For instance(w/ decent boon duration say 20%):
Say you get 6 stacks might applied ~18 seconds → WHaO is used → 12 stacks ~18s. With about ~2s left the first 6 stacks will expire because they were already ticking down before boon transfer. However if you get another unique 6 stacks of might before the first ones expire and WHaO then you will be able to maintain the 12 stacks with the stack jumping up to 24 stacks momentarily before dropping to 18 and then 12.

Unholy Pillager.3791:

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Why in name of all that was good and kind was Might transferring capped? I can understand fixing a bug that lets you infinitely stack boons but Might wasn’t one of those boons affected since it stacks in intensity, not duration. It was literally never a part of the problem here. The best you could do was gain a big stack of might for a few seconds, burst and then watch it trickle away. The response here wasn’t a fix, this was butchery.

Rangers have several ways to apply long duration might stacks like 15s on Clarion Bond. It was very possible to have big stacks of might for around 15s consistently.

That’s still not a problem though. Exactly the opposite of a problem. That is a good use of boons, and it’s time limited. The problem was that you could infinitely stack every single stacks duration boon permanently. That’s not okay, but completely gutting the skill and putting a hard cap on a boon that wasn’t part of the problem is above and beyond overkill.

Well yes, but when you have things that can apply 15s of might that becomes permanent with WHaO if you have some boon duration, meaning that you could in fact get an infinite amount of might duration at 25 stacks.

No, it doesn’t. Because when you combine might stacks with WHaO you get more might until you hit the cap. When you combine say, protection stacks, you get more protection time until it builds onto itself over and over where it eventually reaches the duration cap of ~8.5 minutes. Let’s say you and your pet have 10 stacks of might with 20 seconds duration each, you hit WHaO and you now have 20 stacks of might with 19 seconds duration (due to WHaO’s cast time), 16 seconds later you press WHaO again and now you have 25 stacks of might with 2 seconds of duration.

You cannot permanently keep up stacks intensity boons with WHaO. Stacks intensity boons like might were never a part of the problem here and there was no reason for them to be capped.

You can permanently keep up the might stacks from something that is applied for greater than 16s if it is reapplied. So that is indefinitely, and in doing so you can double the stacks from using WHaO. I think we are arguing different things.

We’re not arguing different things, it seems you don’t understand how the mechanics work. Let’s say you have 20 stacks of might with 2 seconds duration, then someone uses a buff that gives you 3 stacks of might for 15 seconds. Your tooltip hover will say you have 23 stacks of might for 15 seconds. In reality, you have 20 stacks of might for 2 seconds and 3 stacks of might for 15 seconds. After three seconds have passed you will have 3 stacks of might for 12 seconds. Reapplication of a stacks intensity boon does not refresh the duration of your existing stacks. They stack individually atop each other and are individually removed as their durations expire.

You could not infinitely keep up stacks intensity boons with WHaO. The problem was stacks duration boons and solely stacks duration boons.

Yes, but if you get 13 stacks of might for durations longer than 16s that are reapplied and use WHaO you will have perma 25 stacks.

Edit: it allowed minor might stacking to be more powerful than it should be, by doubling stacks.

No, you won’t. After using WHaO the first time, you’ll have 25 stacks for a couple of seconds, tops. Then the might will expire, long before WHaO comes off of cooldown again. You seem to be misunderstanding the mechanics here.

If you get 13 stacks of might for 16+seconds and use WHaO you will have 25 stacks of might for 16s with half of the stacks expiring shortly before the other stacks because they were transferred after WHaO was cast. Therefore, if you keep reapplying the 13 stacks of 16s of might before you need to cast WHaO you can get the perma stacks. I understand how intensity stacking works.

Tapioca.9062:

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Why in name of all that was good and kind was Might transferring capped? I can understand fixing a bug that lets you infinitely stack boons but Might wasn’t one of those boons affected since it stacks in intensity, not duration. It was literally never a part of the problem here. The best you could do was gain a big stack of might for a few seconds, burst and then watch it trickle away. The response here wasn’t a fix, this was butchery.

Rangers have several ways to apply long duration might stacks like 15s on Clarion Bond. It was very possible to have big stacks of might for around 15s consistently.

That’s still not a problem though. Exactly the opposite of a problem. That is a good use of boons, and it’s time limited. The problem was that you could infinitely stack every single stacks duration boon permanently. That’s not okay, but completely gutting the skill and putting a hard cap on a boon that wasn’t part of the problem is above and beyond overkill.

Well yes, but when you have things that can apply 15s of might that becomes permanent with WHaO if you have some boon duration, meaning that you could in fact get an infinite amount of might duration at 25 stacks.

No, it doesn’t. Because when you combine might stacks with WHaO you get more might until you hit the cap. When you combine say, protection stacks, you get more protection time until it builds onto itself over and over where it eventually reaches the duration cap of ~8.5 minutes. Let’s say you and your pet have 10 stacks of might with 20 seconds duration each, you hit WHaO and you now have 20 stacks of might with 19 seconds duration (due to WHaO’s cast time), 16 seconds later you press WHaO again and now you have 25 stacks of might with 2 seconds of duration.

You cannot permanently keep up stacks intensity boons with WHaO. Stacks intensity boons like might were never a part of the problem here and there was no reason for them to be capped.

You can permanently keep up the might stacks from something that is applied for greater than 16s if it is reapplied. So that is indefinitely, and in doing so you can double the stacks from using WHaO. I think we are arguing different things.

We’re not arguing different things, it seems you don’t understand how the mechanics work. Let’s say you have 20 stacks of might with 2 seconds duration, then someone uses a buff that gives you 3 stacks of might for 15 seconds. Your tooltip hover will say you have 23 stacks of might for 15 seconds. In reality, you have 20 stacks of might for 2 seconds and 3 stacks of might for 15 seconds. After three seconds have passed you will have 3 stacks of might for 12 seconds. Reapplication of a stacks intensity boon does not refresh the duration of your existing stacks. They stack individually atop each other and are individually removed as their durations expire.

You could not infinitely keep up stacks intensity boons with WHaO. The problem was stacks duration boons and solely stacks duration boons.

Yes, but if you get 13 stacks of might for durations longer than 16s that are reapplied and use WHaO you will have perma 25 stacks.

Edit: it allowed minor might stacking to be more powerful than it should be, by doubling stacks.

Unholy Pillager.3791:

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Why in name of all that was good and kind was Might transferring capped? I can understand fixing a bug that lets you infinitely stack boons but Might wasn’t one of those boons affected since it stacks in intensity, not duration. It was literally never a part of the problem here. The best you could do was gain a big stack of might for a few seconds, burst and then watch it trickle away. The response here wasn’t a fix, this was butchery.

Rangers have several ways to apply long duration might stacks like 15s on Clarion Bond. It was very possible to have big stacks of might for around 15s consistently.

That’s still not a problem though. Exactly the opposite of a problem. That is a good use of boons, and it’s time limited. The problem was that you could infinitely stack every single stacks duration boon permanently. That’s not okay, but completely gutting the skill and putting a hard cap on a boon that wasn’t part of the problem is above and beyond overkill.

Well yes, but when you have things that can apply 15s of might that becomes permanent with WHaO if you have some boon duration, meaning that you could in fact get an infinite amount of might duration at 25 stacks.

No, it doesn’t. Because when you combine might stacks with WHaO you get more might until you hit the cap. When you combine say, protection stacks, you get more protection time until it builds onto itself over and over where it eventually reaches the duration cap of ~8.5 minutes. Let’s say you and your pet have 10 stacks of might with 20 seconds duration each, you hit WHaO and you now have 20 stacks of might with 19 seconds duration (due to WHaO’s cast time), 16 seconds later you press WHaO again and now you have 25 stacks of might with 2 seconds of duration.

You cannot permanently keep up stacks intensity boons with WHaO. Stacks intensity boons like might were never a part of the problem here and there was no reason for them to be capped.

You can permanently keep up the might stacks from something that is applied for greater than 16s if it is reapplied. So that is indefinitely, and in doing so you can double the stacks from using WHaO. I think we are arguing different things.

If that’s your argument, then what’s your response to the fact that other professions can keep 25 might stacks indefinitely, and more easily than ranger can? It wouldn’t be a problem if ranger were actually competitive in PvP without might stacking, but this isn’t really the case.

My argument would be that it is not intended for the Ranger to easily get 25 stacks of might like other classes. Seriously people need to stop comparing the Ranger to other classes and saying stuff like its not fair that “x class can do y and Rangers can’t”. If you want every class to be the same so badly then try a different game. Furthermore, if this is what you want so badly then I don’t see the problem with the current meta and everyone just rolling d/d eles since they’re all the same.

Tapioca.9062:

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Why in name of all that was good and kind was Might transferring capped? I can understand fixing a bug that lets you infinitely stack boons but Might wasn’t one of those boons affected since it stacks in intensity, not duration. It was literally never a part of the problem here. The best you could do was gain a big stack of might for a few seconds, burst and then watch it trickle away. The response here wasn’t a fix, this was butchery.

Rangers have several ways to apply long duration might stacks like 15s on Clarion Bond. It was very possible to have big stacks of might for around 15s consistently.

That’s still not a problem though. Exactly the opposite of a problem. That is a good use of boons, and it’s time limited. The problem was that you could infinitely stack every single stacks duration boon permanently. That’s not okay, but completely gutting the skill and putting a hard cap on a boon that wasn’t part of the problem is above and beyond overkill.

Well yes, but when you have things that can apply 15s of might that becomes permanent with WHaO if you have some boon duration, meaning that you could in fact get an infinite amount of might duration at 25 stacks.

No, it doesn’t. Because when you combine might stacks with WHaO you get more might until you hit the cap. When you combine say, protection stacks, you get more protection time until it builds onto itself over and over where it eventually reaches the duration cap of ~8.5 minutes. Let’s say you and your pet have 10 stacks of might with 20 seconds duration each, you hit WHaO and you now have 20 stacks of might with 19 seconds duration (due to WHaO’s cast time), 16 seconds later you press WHaO again and now you have 25 stacks of might with 2 seconds of duration.

You cannot permanently keep up stacks intensity boons with WHaO. Stacks intensity boons like might were never a part of the problem here and there was no reason for them to be capped.

You can permanently keep up the might stacks from something that is applied for greater than 16s if it is reapplied. So that is indefinitely, and in doing so you can double the stacks from using WHaO. I think we are arguing different things.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Gaile Gray.6029:

Just verifying that this thread is being read by the developers. I know it’s long, and there’s a lot of detail here, but thank you for participating!

Hi Gaile, I’ve actually gone through the whole thread multiple times and placed a majority of the actual feedback into my OP, along with my own feedback. Hope this helps.

Nice job so far. I went back and read most of the additions and they look good. Small note that on Tidal Surge it will be possible to finish in the field if you pet swap with Clarion Bond. Its minor and requires traiting, but it is possible.

Aomine.5012:

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Why in name of all that was good and kind was Might transferring capped? I can understand fixing a bug that lets you infinitely stack boons but Might wasn’t one of those boons affected since it stacks in intensity, not duration. It was literally never a part of the problem here. The best you could do was gain a big stack of might for a few seconds, burst and then watch it trickle away. The response here wasn’t a fix, this was butchery.

Rangers have several ways to apply long duration might stacks like 15s on Clarion Bond. It was very possible to have big stacks of might for around 15s consistently.

You didn’t even use that build, or care about ranger anyway.

Why bother responding at this point, since your wish of destroying ranger is granted?

They not only took away that “OMG SO OP QUICKNESS”, they also nerf everything else to the point that it’s worthless.

Just answer me this, would you HONESTLY click your heal bottom just for those little duration boons now? If not, this skill serve no purpose. Even an utility skill (7~9) works better than this.

Um no as I argued throughout the whole thread (you just chose to ignore it the whole time) I would use WHaO as my heal skill when I need to heal, not precasted in fights by blowing all of my utility first, and would be happy to find that I at least got some Might and useful boons like prot even at short durations. Please stop baiting me, I already got infracted for responding to you and I apologize if you didn’t get to see that, but you are starting to annoy me with all of the personal attacks.

Tapioca.9062:

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Why in name of all that was good and kind was Might transferring capped? I can understand fixing a bug that lets you infinitely stack boons but Might wasn’t one of those boons affected since it stacks in intensity, not duration. It was literally never a part of the problem here. The best you could do was gain a big stack of might for a few seconds, burst and then watch it trickle away. The response here wasn’t a fix, this was butchery.

Rangers have several ways to apply long duration might stacks like 15s on Clarion Bond. It was very possible to have big stacks of might for around 15s consistently.

That’s still not a problem though. Exactly the opposite of a problem. That is a good use of boons, and it’s time limited. The problem was that you could infinitely stack every single stacks duration boon permanently. That’s not okay, but completely gutting the skill and putting a hard cap on a boon that wasn’t part of the problem is above and beyond overkill.

Well yes, but when you have things that can apply 15s of might that becomes permanent with WHaO if you have some boon duration, meaning that you could in fact get an infinite amount of might duration at 25 stacks.

Elxdark.9702:

DaShi.1368:

Aomine.5012:

At this point it’s no longer about whether it’s a buff or nerf anymore.

It’s how Anet sees ranger.

No, it’s not. The trait was not acting as intended. I’m sorry that you feel that rangers need broken traits to be competitive, but Anet is going to fix these regardless of what class. Both guardians and engineers had traits disabled because they were not acting as intended. It has nothing to do with class preference, but instead appropriate game balance.

Please, explain us how it was so broken besides the quickness stack which was useless, unless you wanted to waste and entire line pet heal break stun and utility.

Please tell us, I’m very integrating.

It was broken because if you were able to in any way get 16s of ANY boon in the game on you applied by yourself OR ALLIES, you could permanently keep those boons up on the Ranger. That is not intended no matter how much you wish it to be so.

Tapioca.9062:

Why in name of all that was good and kind was Might transferring capped? I can understand fixing a bug that lets you infinitely stack boons but Might wasn’t one of those boons affected since it stacks in intensity, not duration. It was literally never a part of the problem here. The best you could do was gain a big stack of might for a few seconds, burst and then watch it trickle away. The response here wasn’t a fix, this was butchery.

Rangers have several ways to apply long duration might stacks like 15s on Clarion Bond. It was very possible to have big stacks of might for around 15s consistently.

Unholy Pillager.3791:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Unholy Pillager.3791:

…Also, is there any chance of an explanation for why rangers are prohibited from stacking might, but warriors, elementalists, necromancers, etc. are not?

Because all classes should not be the same. Why not let Thieves stack 25 might on themselves in seconds too?

Thieves have been in the sPvP meta permanently since the game was released while rangers have never been there? Thieves can get on-demand stealth and have insane mobility while rangers can’t and don’t? Rangers have the tools of a might stacking class, but without the might stacking.

Thieves are in the meta simply because they have godlike mobility and can 2v1 quickly. They also push other zerk builds out of the meta because they can instagib them with little counter play. But all of the classes are supposed to be different. A game with 8 homogenous professions is boring. Ranger has a very unique flavor and with a few changes or simply with the introduction of the Druid it could be a lot better.