Look at all the red posts. Let this night go down in history as The Ranger Riots of 1328 AE.
And rightly so.
Nothing will turn eyes away faster than a riot. Don’t even go there! (Even if you were kidding, which I hope you were. )
Let’s provide actual, gameplay-based feedback and look for changes in the future. But let’s not post to be rude, comment to add nothing, or repeat endlessly the same reactions. Give details, give solid input, that’s what we should do. And yes, “we” includes… me!
Haha yeah I was joking sorry. The change to WHaO originally was too much imo and I think that the current functionality is a nice little buff to a heal that was in a decent place before it received any changes at all. Am fine with the change.
I guess I’ll go ahead and repost suggestions here if this is the thread we’re using.
I would like to see Shouts be a little unique on the Ranger since the pet is integral to our play style and our shouts affect the Ranger and pet rather than allies.
-I would like to see Search and Rescue act as a ground targeted pet teleport that acts as an AoE stun break and applies protection to allies around it.
-I would like to see Protect Me, still function as a stun break, but be changed to have the pet teleport to your location and pulse damage reduction around you(killing your pet is terrible design)
-I would like to see Sic Em remain the same as it is now, but add a second skill in a chain called Strike As One that makes the Ranger teleport to the pet.
-I would like to see Guard cause the Pet to block attacks (1s) for you and the pet.
You are going say with a straight face that THREE stacks of might is fair? Seriously?
When it had zero boon transfer before the patch, yeah that is fair.
It also wasn’t used in any gamemode before the patch. Hell, even with soldier runes TU is the better option.
False it can be used in both of the meta pve builds condi or power. And if you are running shouts in pvp/wvw people still slot it. Just because you don’t use it doesn’t mean other people don’t use it.
It’s inferior in almost every way. It heals less than TU, it doesn’t remove conditions when traited, it doesn’t keep your health over 90% nearly as efficiently (for scholar runes), you can’t use it preemptively, it doesn’t provide a water field like healing spring. The only thing you get from it is some worthless boons (swiftness and regeneration). It can be used, sure, just as search and rescue and guard can be used. It’s still outclassed by every other option out there, except for the water spirit.
Its less susceptible to spiking than is TU, it doesn’t potentially have a water field block fire fields. Some worthless boons? So it doesn’t apply might at all now? Actually it still gives might, and it gives small durations of useful boons like prot. This is the problem with it being broken before. A skill gets a nice little buff that is not extreme(and was what was expected when the patch was previewed), but everyone goes berserk because it isn’t broken like it was when the patch went live.
I see where you’re coming from man, I really do. But I still think you overestimate WHaO. If you’re being spiked to the point where you need the full heal up front or you’ll die, WHaO probably isn’t going to save you. You’re probably going to get interrupted at that point anyway, and the 6k heal is rarely enough to keep you alive for longer than a few seconds. It has it’s uses, but the scenarios where this skill is a better option than TU are very rare, surely you can see this. It’s irrelevant to add some minor boons to this skill, it’s still not going to be better.
If “Protect me!” suddenly gave me 5 might stacks, I still wouldn’t use it over signet of stone. The primary functions of the skills are so inferior to their counterparts in both examples, that the small secondary buffs are worthless in comparison.
Valid points, but you could just as easily rupt TU. I know that its uses are limited, but that is the whole point of why it needed to be nerfed. Without the nerf you would have to have a very specific reason to use any heal other than WHaO because of how broken it was. Protect Me is a different story because it is terribly designed, but thats a story for another thread.
He has already stated that it will function like Fortifying Bond which is how it should have worked in the first place.
thanks for killing the only interesting ranger buff we’ll see until potentially thenext balance patch next year. can’t wait to see what you can ruin w/ another reactionary nerf thread, then.
Yeah because I am the sole reason why it is getting changed, not because it is broken and not working as intended (as stated by a dev). Laughable really. I want the Ranger to be good just as much as anyone else, but not by using broken skills.
Agree with you here mate. I want Ranger to be good, but it shouldn’t have access to this, nobody should. The issue is not that it is possible, but how easy it is to do.
It’s not about blowing your heal skill, stun break and condi cleanse for an opening burst, its about counterattacking with that. When you need the stun break, condi cleanse and heal. You stun break, get the Quickness, hit RaO (convert 5 condis to boons with Lyssa runes), WHaO (gain another boon) to heal to full from 50% and proceed to Remorseless their face off with 15s or more of Quickness and everything else (so Bountiful Hunter is actually good), so you stack 20 vulnerability on them as well, more with Maul, which is now much easier to get off since the animation is 50% faster. If I were able to play right now, I would have been using this build and with “WHaO!” swapping boons like that, its monstrous. Or run it with Trooper Runes.
The other issue is it totally throws out their Druid/Staff/New Pet balance, which they do not want to have to re-do before launch.
Thanks man. I am glad you see how easy it was to actually combo WHaO with QZ and pet swap without hindering yourself. I totally agree with the point about Druid balance. I mentioned in another thread that it would not be good for the Ranger to be running around with uber quickness and throwing out heals like Tidal Surge for 5-6k in 1.5s.
You are going say with a straight face that THREE stacks of might is fair? Seriously?
When it had zero boon transfer before the patch, yeah that is fair.
It also wasn’t used in any gamemode before the patch. Hell, even with soldier runes TU is the better option.
False it can be used in both of the meta pve builds condi or power. And if you are running shouts in pvp/wvw people still slot it. Just because you don’t use it doesn’t mean other people don’t use it.
It’s inferior in almost every way. It heals less than TU, it doesn’t remove conditions when traited, it doesn’t keep your health over 90% nearly as efficiently (for scholar runes), you can’t use it preemptively, it doesn’t provide a water field like healing spring. The only thing you get from it is some worthless boons (swiftness and regeneration). It can be used, sure, just as search and rescue and guard can be used. It’s still outclassed by every other option out there, except for the water spirit.
Its less susceptible to spiking than is TU, it doesn’t potentially have a water field block fire fields. Some worthless boons? So it doesn’t apply might at all now? Actually it still gives might, and it gives small durations of useful boons like prot. This is the problem with it being broken before. A skill gets a nice little buff that is not extreme(and was what was expected when the patch was previewed), but everyone goes berserk because it isn’t broken like it was when the patch went live.
You are going say with a straight face that THREE stacks of might is fair? Seriously?
When it had zero boon transfer before the patch, yeah that is fair.
It also wasn’t used in any gamemode before the patch. Hell, even with soldier runes TU is the better option.
False it can be used in both of the meta pve builds condi or power. And if you are running shouts in pvp/wvw people still slot it. Just because you don’t use it doesn’t mean other people don’t use it.
That just saps any hope I had left for the Ranger being worth a flying kitten ever. Tired of being jacked around by the Devs with the Ranger. I’m ashamed I let myself start liking my Ranger again.
10 sec duration and only 3 stacks of might. What a god kitten waste of a skill again.
Because a heal skill that was fine as it was before the changes, getting an added effect of sharing 3 stacks of might is REKT.
Cool story bruh
Skill was made useless
End of story that is WHaO for me
Nice edit bruh, but you obviously give a crap since you are here posting about it. It is not useless, it is just not 10x better than our other heals now.
That just saps any hope I had left for the Ranger being worth a flying kitten ever. Tired of being jacked around by the Devs with the Ranger. I’m ashamed I let myself start liking my Ranger again.
10 sec duration and only 3 stacks of might. What a god kitten waste of a skill again.
Because a heal skill that was fine as it was before the changes, getting an added effect of sharing 3 stacks of might is REKT.
He has already stated that it will function like Fortifying Bond which is how it should have worked in the first place.
thanks for killing the only interesting ranger buff we’ll see until potentially thenext balance patch next year. can’t wait to see what you can ruin w/ another reactionary nerf thread, then.
Yeah because I am the sole reason why it is getting changed, not because it is broken and not working as intended (as stated by a dev). Laughable really. I want the Ranger to be good just as much as anyone else, but not by using broken skills.
I would like to see Search and Rescue act as a ground targeted pet teleport that acts as an AoE stun break and applies protection and resistance to allies around it.
I would like to see Protect Me, still function as a stun break, but be changed to have the pet teleport to your location and pulse damage reduction around you(killing your pet is stupid and terrible design)
I would like to see Sic Em remain the same as it is now, but add a second skill in a chain called Strike As One that makes the Ranger teleport to the pet.
I would like to see Guard cause the Pet to block attacks (1s) for you and the pet.
Sure they do: it’s not intended for Rangers to stack boons like other classes whether you like it or not. It is not the design for the Ranger.
/FACEPALM
Tell us, that it’s not intended for ranger to be competitive in sPvP, whether you like it or not.
You’re as suming that the only way to be competitive in PvP is to stack boons.
Mesmers and thieves don’t need to stack boons. Warriors, guardians, necromancrs, elementalists, and engineers tend to stack boons to at least some extent in order to be competitive. Since rangers don’t have long term and/or spammable stealth and/or clones, they need to stack boons (or at least steal/corrupt them) in order to compete.
Still an assumption that the only way to be competitive is to stack boons, strip boons, or have broken mechanics like stealth.
It’s not an assumption, it’s an observation. I challenge you to find any exceptions to it.
It’s an observation of the current PvP meta game, but that doesn’t mean that the only way to be competitive is to do the things you mentioned. Just that those are the only roles that are competitive at this point in time, not that they will always be so which you assume.
The elite specs could easily change the meta in a way where those things you mentioned aren’t necessary and it could include things that the ranger can do well. Ie, tanky Druid that can burst heal, which doesn’t rely on boons.
Unless I’m mistaken, boons have always been the meta in PvP. If the ranger can stack boons, it might have a chance of actually being played in tournaments. If ANet were capable of making the ranger useful in PvP without stacking boons, they would have done it some time in the past three years. There is no reason for rangers to be incapable of stacking boons.
Boons are good because they augment the base profession. Rangers aren’t in the meta because the base profession isn’t solid. The Ranger is too highly dependent on the pet for damage, utility, and survivability; no other class is handcuffed to AI in the way that Ranger is. The real reason why Rangers aren’t in the meta is because they have lower damage that is reliant on the pet and no group utility that warrants a spot over a different class.
You think that boons are the answer for the Ranger and yet this skill has come along that enables boon stacking, but is at the same time being downplayed because it is easily countered by classes that can strip boons which is the case for any class that heavily stacks boons and currently in the meta. Its the class not the boons.
I mean I don’t see where I argued to blow cds. What about swapping pets right before you heal is blowing a cd? What about healing after using a stunbreak/condi clear, IF you need to heal, is blowing a cd? If you take those as “blowing” cds then ok fine I’m not going to argue with that point anymore.
Puck is right here. You have to actively use other skills other than WHaO to solely gain the quickness your taking about. Your not using these skills for the situational advantage, your blowing them in conjunction off cool down to stack them onto your self. Using skills in such a way has never been part of any rangers rotation until now. To say this is normal game play is wrong.
Now normally I would agree with you that quickness stacking is overpowered. The thing is ranger really has low damage. We have high single hit modifiers but that is it. Attacking twice as long with quickness means nothing when you don’t do any damage.
To address the first part, once again I don’t really see how swapping a pet(16s cd) in order to gain 8s quickness is “blowing” a cooldown, but rather using the traits in your build to gain the benefits they provide. I guess Mesmers shouldn’t shatter bc that “blows” CDs. Nor how using QZ when you need to stunbreak or cleanse is “blowing” a cooldown.
To the second part of your post. The problem isn’t that the Rangers do too much damage or too little, the problem is that if you leave this in the game then everything in the future will have to be balanced around this single skill simply because it could get abused. It is not good for balance or overall game health to have a class able to permanently have boons so long as they get over 16s duration applied on them. Once you get the 16s then you can infinitely have the boons just by using WHaO, that is broken and has no place in a game where allies can also buff your character.
Sure they do: it’s not intended for Rangers to stack boons like other classes whether you like it or not. It is not the design for the Ranger.
/FACEPALM
Tell us, that it’s not intended for ranger to be competitive in sPvP, whether you like it or not.
You’re as suming that the only way to be competitive in PvP is to stack boons.
Mesmers and thieves don’t need to stack boons. Warriors, guardians, necromancrs, elementalists, and engineers tend to stack boons to at least some extent in order to be competitive. Since rangers don’t have long term and/or spammable stealth and/or clones, they need to stack boons (or at least steal/corrupt them) in order to compete.
Still an assumption that the only way to be competitive is to stack boons, strip boons, or have broken mechanics like stealth.
It’s not an assumption, it’s an observation. I challenge you to find any exceptions to it.
It’s an observation of the current PvP meta game, but that doesn’t mean that the only way to be competitive is to do the things you mentioned. Just that those are the only roles that are competitive at this point in time, not that they will always be so which you assume.
The elite specs could easily change the meta in a way where those things you mentioned aren’t necessary and it could include things that the ranger can do well. Ie, tanky Druid that can burst heal, which doesn’t rely on boons.
Sure they do: it’s not intended for Rangers to stack boons like other classes whether you like it or not. It is not the design for the Ranger.
/FACEPALM
Tell us, that it’s not intended for ranger to be competitive in sPvP, whether you like it or not.
You’re as suming that the only way to be competitive in PvP is to stack boons.
Mesmers and thieves don’t need to stack boons. Warriors, guardians, necromancrs, elementalists, and engineers tend to stack boons to at least some extent in order to be competitive. Since rangers don’t have long term and/or spammable stealth and/or clones, they need to stack boons (or at least steal/corrupt them) in order to compete.
Still an assumption that the only way to be competitive is to stack boons, strip boons, or have broken mechanics like stealth.
So, if they’ll just “lock” boon sharing duration to 10sec it will be fine.
Less than that will be awful.
They’re making it function the same way as Fortifying Bond, which is what it should have been done in the first place.
Except with Fortifying bonds values its kills the skill for anything other then Might stacking.
Well yes, but maybe just maybe the devs don’t intend for RANGER to stack boons like that.
And they have no rational justification for that position. Ranger has spent the last 3 years being kicked out of dungeon groups and left out of PvP tournaments. ArenaNet is either unwilling or unable to make the profession viable and competitive, and their refusal to discuss the problems with the player base is making things worse. They’re happy to engage in dialogue in the revenant forum, but for the profession that has needed it the most for three years straight? No, no time for that.
Sure they do: it’s not intended for Rangers to stack boons like other classes whether you like it or not. It is not the design for the Ranger.
So, if they’ll just “lock” boon sharing duration to 10sec it will be fine.
Less than that will be awful.
They’re making it function the same way as Fortifying Bond, which is what it should have been done in the first place.
Except with Fortifying bonds values its kills the skill for anything other then Might stacking.
Well yes, but maybe just maybe the devs don’t intend for RANGER to stack boons like that.
We talking about the same dev’s that left ele’s god tier for so long and left rangers bottom tier since the launch of the game?
They clearly know what’s best for the class.
Without d/d, ele is verrrry far from God-tier. So you’re advocating that Rangers just get some stupid thing that makes them too good, which would solve nothing because then people will complain about Ranger and it will be whack-a-mole. Rangers need small changes to get them even with other classes who can receive minor changes to bring them down.
I think he’s talking about the length of time. We are still waiting for D/D ele to br brought down to balanced levels after it existing for a year (the June patch actually buffed it). The weaker boon stacking Ranger build is being nerfed after a day.
So we want Ranger to become God-tier and then not fixed for a year because it’s just desserts?
Do you read peoples posts before responding to them? WTF was God tier about this build? Do you even PvP?
He was comparing Ranger to a"God-tier" build in D/D ele, claiming that Ranger shouldn’t be nerfed bc ele hasn’t been nerfed, thus implying that Ranger should be able to have a God-Tier build for a year and not get nerfed like ele. Pretty simple.
Ah yes, the “do you even PvP insult?”. I guess you win the internet war because you questioned my skill.
I was questioning your knowledge, now I am mostly questioning whether you read posts before you respond to them.
Mhmmm ok. Maybe I should question your ability to comprehend arguments before insulting someone, but I won’t. Good day sir.
“The other OP builds were allowed for longer” lmao rangers that’s not a great argument against a minute and a half of quickness and fury.
The build has no condition cleanse, no offensive traits, uses pet swap on cooldown (hint: kill their pet just once and the build becomes completely useless at everything)…and still doesn’t do that much damage compared to meta builds like d/d cele ele. But hey, it’s a ranger doing that damage, and that isn’t allowed. Meanwhile, pet pathing is worthless and f2 still doesn’t work at all.
Again stop thinking about the celestial build that has been posted around. Think about other builds such as survival that don’t really have to give up much to get this quickness stuff. Furthermore, think about how quickness could be too good on something like Druid who could put out an area 5-6k heal faster with Tidal Surge and quickness.
No matter what, the ranger is still giving up their heal for the first 16-20 seconds of a fight if they open with quickness. Without this buff, rangers aren’t even competitive at all in high level PvP. Maybe the quickness could be toned down a bit…but every other aspect of that skill is still fine, and pets are still bugged as hell. Also, why should I stop comparing to cele ele? They let those stay out of control for months, yet want to gut rangers within a day of making them potentially competitive. People are complaining about long duration fury and protection, as if elementalists and revenants can’t already do that. I guess it’s only a problem if a bottom tier profession does it, because you feel entitled to an automatic win every time you face a ranger.
It’s not the perma regen or swiftness or fury, we could already do that. It’s having 100% uptime on certain boons that is not intended(stated by devs), and the fact that you can stack quickness out the wazoo. And again stop thinking you have to use your heal before fights start, you can play normally just as you did before the patch, use heal midfight, and wow stack quickness, so much strat.
When you want to make an argument as to why something shouldn’t be taken down a notch, you don’t want to compare it to D/D ele that is agreed to be too strong by the whole community.
What boons besides quickness are problematic? And as for cele ele, they left that out of control for months. This build, which is less effective than that, is going to be gutted within a week. They have a serious double standard going.
Quickness by itself is enough, but I’m gonna go out on a limb here and say prot.
So, if they’ll just “lock” boon sharing duration to 10sec it will be fine.
Less than that will be awful.
They’re making it function the same way as Fortifying Bond, which is what it should have been done in the first place.
Except with Fortifying bonds values its kills the skill for anything other then Might stacking.
Well yes, but maybe just maybe the devs don’t intend for RANGER to stack boons like that.
We talking about the same dev’s that left ele’s god tier for so long and left rangers bottom tier since the launch of the game?
They clearly know what’s best for the class.
Without d/d, ele is verrrry far from God-tier. So you’re advocating that Rangers just get some stupid thing that makes them too good, which would solve nothing because then people will complain about Ranger and it will be whack-a-mole. Rangers need small changes to get them even with other classes who can receive minor changes to bring them down.
I think he’s talking about the length of time. We are still waiting for D/D ele to br brought down to balanced levels after it existing for a year (the June patch actually buffed it). The weaker boon stacking Ranger build is being nerfed after a day.
So we want Ranger to become God-tier and then not fixed for a year because it’s just desserts?
Do you read peoples posts before responding to them? WTF was God tier about this build? Do you even PvP?
He was comparing Ranger to a"God-tier" build in D/D ele, claiming that Ranger shouldn’t be nerfed bc ele hasn’t been nerfed, thus implying that Ranger should be able to have a God-Tier build for a year and not get nerfed like ele. Pretty simple.
Ah yes, the “do you even PvP insult?”. I guess you win the internet war because you questioned my skill.
So, if they’ll just “lock” boon sharing duration to 10sec it will be fine.
Less than that will be awful.
They’re making it function the same way as Fortifying Bond, which is what it should have been done in the first place.
Except with Fortifying bonds values its kills the skill for anything other then Might stacking.
Well yes, but maybe just maybe the devs don’t intend for RANGER to stack boons like that.
And they have no rational justification for that position. Ranger has spent the last 3 years being kicked out of dungeon groups and left out of PvP tournaments. ArenaNet is either unwilling or unable to make the profession viable and competitive, and their refusal to discuss the problems with the player base is making things worse. They’re happy to engage in dialogue in the revenant forum, but for the profession that has needed it the most for three years straight? No, no time for that.
Sure they do: it’s not intended for Rangers to stack boons like other classes whether you like it or not. It is not the design for the Ranger.
So, if they’ll just “lock” boon sharing duration to 10sec it will be fine.
Less than that will be awful.
They’re making it function the same way as Fortifying Bond, which is what it should have been done in the first place.
Except with Fortifying bonds values its kills the skill for anything other then Might stacking.
Well yes, but maybe just maybe the devs don’t intend for RANGER to stack boons like that.
We talking about the same dev’s that left ele’s god tier for so long and left rangers bottom tier since the launch of the game?
They clearly know what’s best for the class.
Without d/d, ele is verrrry far from God-tier. So you’re advocating that Rangers just get some stupid thing that makes them too good, which would solve nothing because then people will complain about Ranger and it will be whack-a-mole. Rangers need small changes to get them even with other classes who can receive minor changes to bring them down.
I think he’s talking about the length of time. We are still waiting for D/D ele to br brought down to balanced levels after it existing for a year (the June patch actually buffed it). The weaker boon stacking Ranger build is being nerfed after a day.
So we want Ranger to become God-tier and then not fixed for a year because it’s just desserts?
So, if they’ll just “lock” boon sharing duration to 10sec it will be fine.
Less than that will be awful.
They’re making it function the same way as Fortifying Bond, which is what it should have been done in the first place.
Except with Fortifying bonds values its kills the skill for anything other then Might stacking.
Well yes, but maybe just maybe the devs don’t intend for RANGER to stack boons like that.
We talking about the same dev’s that left ele’s god tier for so long and left rangers bottom tier since the launch of the game?
They clearly know what’s best for the class.
Without d/d, ele is verrrry far from God-tier. So you’re advocating that Rangers just get some stupid thing that makes them too good, which would solve nothing because then people will complain about Ranger and it will be whack-a-mole. Rangers need small changes to get them even with other classes who can receive minor changes to bring them down.
“The other OP builds were allowed for longer” lmao rangers that’s not a great argument against a minute and a half of quickness and fury.
The build has no condition cleanse, no offensive traits, uses pet swap on cooldown (hint: kill their pet just once and the build becomes completely useless at everything)…and still doesn’t do that much damage compared to meta builds like d/d cele ele. But hey, it’s a ranger doing that damage, and that isn’t allowed. Meanwhile, pet pathing is worthless and f2 still doesn’t work at all.
Again stop thinking about the celestial build that has been posted around. Think about other builds such as survival that don’t really have to give up much to get this quickness stuff. Furthermore, think about how quickness could be too good on something like Druid who could put out an area 5-6k heal faster with Tidal Surge and quickness.
No matter what, the ranger is still giving up their heal for the first 16-20 seconds of a fight if they open with quickness. Without this buff, rangers aren’t even competitive at all in high level PvP. Maybe the quickness could be toned down a bit…but every other aspect of that skill is still fine, and pets are still bugged as hell. Also, why should I stop comparing to cele ele? They let those stay out of control for months, yet want to gut rangers within a day of making them potentially competitive. People are complaining about long duration fury and protection, as if elementalists and revenants can’t already do that. I guess it’s only a problem if a bottom tier profession does it, because you feel entitled to an automatic win every time you face a ranger.
It’s not the perma regen or swiftness or fury, we could already do that. It’s having 100% uptime on certain boons that is not intended(stated by devs), and the fact that you can stack quickness out the wazoo. And again stop thinking you have to use your heal before fights start, you can play normally just as you did before the patch, use heal midfight, and wow stack quickness, so much strat.
When you want to make an argument as to why something shouldn’t be taken down a notch, you don’t want to compare it to D/D ele that is agreed to be too strong by the whole community.
ele doesn’t have quickness to begin with and the boons are frequent but short lived. that’s a difference.
and your salt against eles won’t get you anywhere, not like it has anything to do with it.
It doesn’t matter much, if you have permanent boons through permanent (re-)application or through stacking/copying long durations. The latter is actually easier to counter with any kind of boon remove.
Well good thing every class has access to boon removal.
ele doesn’t have quickness to begin with and the boons are frequent but short lived. that’s a difference.
and your salt against eles won’t get you anywhere, not like it has anything to do with it.
It doesn’t matter much, if you have permanent boons through permanent (re-)application or through stacking/copying long durations. The latter is actually easier to counter with any kind of boon remove.
Well good thing every class has access to boon removal.
“The other OP builds were allowed for longer” lmao rangers that’s not a great argument against a minute and a half of quickness and fury.
The build has no condition cleanse, no offensive traits, uses pet swap on cooldown (hint: kill their pet just once and the build becomes completely useless at everything)…and still doesn’t do that much damage compared to meta builds like d/d cele ele. But hey, it’s a ranger doing that damage, and that isn’t allowed. Meanwhile, pet pathing is worthless and f2 still doesn’t work at all.
Again stop thinking about the celestial build that has been posted around. Think about other builds such as survival that don’t really have to give up much to get this quickness stuff. Furthermore, think about how quickness could be too good on something like Druid who could put out an area 5-6k heal faster with Tidal Surge and quickness.
I think the best and easiest thing would be to buff zerker builds, especially of those classes who have TERRIBLE zerker builds (engis, eles, wars and rangers to a lesser degree.)
(note buffing zerker doesnt mean increasing dmg per se, most of those classes have other probs that force them into bunker/cele builds)
^
Zerks help against bunkers, but they are run out of the meta by classes like teef.
Light on Your Feet needs to at least work on evades instead of dodges only. I’ve also seen suggestions for crippling shot to apply torment which would be good for kiting. Quick Shot needs to be a skill shot so that it can be fired behind you or to the side without targeting an enemy.
Poison Volley needs to do something more than acting like Splitblade. Its ok I guess, but maybe it just feels weak bc the whole weapon is weak. The auto should have a damage buff so it can better use stat sets like rampager. I would also like to see the projectile chance to be increased from 20% to 50% so that sb can apply more pressure with fields (fire, poison, ice)
I applaud effort but the devs who allowed this to go through need to be fired.
Care to elaborate on that or is this just another, ”I don’t know what killed me and I am too lazy to try to figure it out and see if I can counter it, so I’m just going to qq for nerfs” posts?
The reason why it is op is because it takes zero investment. Take the meta power survival build for instance which could now take zephyrs speed over beastly warden after it was nerfed. So the only “sacrifice” you have to make in your build is taking WHaO over TU. In exhcange for two condi removal every 20 seconds you can have 6-7s quickness just by swapping pets right before WHaO is cast. You can have 12-13s quickness by popping WHaO shortly after QZ is cast(say you just got bursted and need to stunbreak/heal). That’s totalling ~20s of quickness on a Marauder build just bc the Ranger was playing normally. Plus that’s only considering the boons you apply and not the other ones that would be on your pet from allies or traits etc.
That’s not good for balance and just adds to power creep, in the future people can say “oh look at Ranger they can have 20s quickness why can’t we have xxx.”
No investment… You just said they have to
-drop a condi removal
-drop their taunt (which up until yesterday was the providing the most qq about rangers)
-blow a stun break and condi removal
-blow a heal
-swap pets on cooldown rather than properly managing them and saving the swap for when they are in danger
Not to mention this is in PvP where everyone is running as much boonstripping as possible to deal with guardian’s and ele’s (who have easily been stacking boons without putting themselves in so much danger since forever).
How exactly is that OP again?
There is only 1 thing you have to invest in, which I said in my post was WHaO:
-I said that it is an exchange of only 2 condi cleanse every 20 seconds. In exchange for the potential of 20s quickness, pretty fair trade.
-It is questionable to slot taunt now when it is no longer broken and can be blocked/evaded. Zephyrs Speed offers more utility both with WHaO and general might stacking as well as for something like ressing or stomping.
-you misunderstand the gameplay, you don’t “blow” your skills, you use them normally as you would in any situation previously except now you can just have the potential for 20s quickness.
-you don’t swap the pets on cooldown, you swap them once again when you need to do so
And if you are playing normally you aren’t immediately healing after every pet swap and every time you use QZ, which means your point is moot.
No, again lets say you NEED to heal so you cast WHaO, a 1s cast, 3/4 of the way through the cast, you swap pets=8s Quickness. You’re not casting heal immediately after swapping pets, you are using heal normally when you need to, but also deciding to swap pets then in order to get 8s Quickness. This is broken in itself because this could potentially have 50% uptime.
Now you don’t have to heal every time after you use QZ, but if you do and then decide to combo it with pet swap as discussed above then you will get 20s Quickness. Essentially you will have almost 50% uptime on Quickness for the cd of QZ. If you do not decide to pop heal, then your Quickness uptime is still ridiculous because of the 6s you get from QZ.
So now you are back to arguing that you will occasionally blow cooldowns when you don’t need to in order to get the benefit of the skill…. That’s part of what makes it balanced….
I mean I don’t see where I argued to blow cds. What about swapping pets right before you heal is blowing a cd? What about healing after using a stunbreak/condi clear, IF you need to heal, is blowing a cd? If you take those as “blowing” cds then ok fine I’m not going to argue with that point anymore.
If they’re swapping pet on cooldown, you probably aren’t actually being hit by the pet most of the time (unless you have no idea how to kite, in which case learn that before making any posts regarding PvP balance). If it’s really a problem, burst their bird right when it comes out, and it will destroy their build entirely. Or stack conditions on them; they have no cleanse and chill will disrupt their build extremely harshly. This ranger build does similar damage to d/d cele ele, but (unlike cele) has no sustain and no condition cleanse. Like a mesmer, it seems overwhelming to someone who doesn’t know what they’re doing…but it isn’t actually overpowered.
By your logic, pets should never hit you if know how to kite, regardless of whether or not you swap pets. So I don’t see your point. Condi cleanse is a base problem with Ranger, stacking condis on Ranger is effective regardless.
20s cooldown is the cooldown of Troll Unguent.
Base QZ would give you 12s (6×2) and then Zephyrs Speed would give you 6s (3×2), this is only taking the BM line. That’s 18s with 1 trait line. You can take any other two trait lines that you want and get 18s.
Troll Unguent, you mean WEAO ?
You need WK in WS to reduce the survival’s CD and FB in NM to share the boons with your pet. 3 lines.
Take a break buddy.
How about you read the argument from the beginning buddy. The point was that if you are running the meta survival build, you would have TU instead of WHaO. TU with WK is 20s cd buddy. Therefore, taking WHaO instead of TU gives up 2 condi clear every 20s buddy.
In exhcange for two condi removal every 20 seconds you can have 6-7s quickness just by swapping pets right before WHaO is cast. You can have 12-13s quickness by popping WHaO shortly after QZ is cast(say you just got bursted and need to stunbreak/heal). That’s totalling ~20s [..]
- Where the 20 sec Cd comes from ? ZS is on a 15 sec CD.
- 6 or 7 ?
- 12 or 13 ?
- 7 + 7 = 13 ?
- 20 sec ?
No, again lets say you NEED to heal so you cast WHaO, a 1s cast, 3/4 of the way through the cast, you swap pets=8s Quickness. You’re not casting heal immediately after swapping pets, you are using heal normally when you need to, but also deciding to swap pets then in order to get 8s Quickness. This is broken in itself because this could potentially have 50% uptime.
Now you don’t have to heal every time after you use QZ, but if you do and then decide to combo it with pet swap as discussed above then you will get 20s Quickness. Essentially you will have almost 50% uptime on Quickness for the cd of QZ. If you do not decide to pop heal, then your Quickness uptime is still ridiculous because of the 6s you get from QZ.
You mixed differents CD (traited an untraited) and differents based duration with and without Lingering Magic.
The reason why it is op is because it takes zero investment.
- You absolutly need 3 traits lines WS, NM and BM (that is not the meta like you said), 4 Traits, WEAO and QZ to achieve this. It’s far from zero investment for an hard rotation in a real fight and that is mostly, like others said, very dangerous. On the top of that you need to be a good ranger who can keep his pets alive.
20s cooldown is the cooldown of Troll Unguent.
Base QZ would give you 12s (6×2) and then Zephyrs Speed would give you 6s (3×2), this is only taking the BM line. That’s 18s with 1 trait line. You can take any other two trait lines that you want and get 18s.
I applaud effort but the devs who allowed this to go through need to be fired.
Care to elaborate on that or is this just another, ”I don’t know what killed me and I am too lazy to try to figure it out and see if I can counter it, so I’m just going to qq for nerfs” posts?
The reason why it is op is because it takes zero investment. Take the meta power survival build for instance which could now take zephyrs speed over beastly warden after it was nerfed. So the only “sacrifice” you have to make in your build is taking WHaO over TU. In exhcange for two condi removal every 20 seconds you can have 6-7s quickness just by swapping pets right before WHaO is cast. You can have 12-13s quickness by popping WHaO shortly after QZ is cast(say you just got bursted and need to stunbreak/heal). That’s totalling ~20s of quickness on a Marauder build just bc the Ranger was playing normally. Plus that’s only considering the boons you apply and not the other ones that would be on your pet from allies or traits etc.
That’s not good for balance and just adds to power creep, in the future people can say “oh look at Ranger they can have 20s quickness why can’t we have xxx.”
No investment… You just said they have to
-drop a condi removal
-drop their taunt (which up until yesterday was the providing the most qq about rangers)
-blow a stun break and condi removal
-blow a heal
-swap pets on cooldown rather than properly managing them and saving the swap for when they are in danger
Not to mention this is in PvP where everyone is running as much boonstripping as possible to deal with guardian’s and ele’s (who have easily been stacking boons without putting themselves in so much danger since forever).
How exactly is that OP again?
There is only 1 thing you have to invest in, which I said in my post was WHaO:
-I said that it is an exchange of only 2 condi cleanse every 20 seconds. In exchange for the potential of 20s quickness, pretty fair trade.
-It is questionable to slot taunt now when it is no longer broken and can be blocked/evaded. Zephyrs Speed offers more utility both with WHaO and general might stacking as well as for something like ressing or stomping.
-you misunderstand the gameplay, you don’t “blow” your skills, you use them normally as you would in any situation previously except now you can just have the potential for 20s quickness.
-you don’t swap the pets on cooldown, you swap them once again when you need to do so
And if you are playing normally you aren’t immediately healing after every pet swap and every time you use QZ, which means your point is moot.
No, again lets say you NEED to heal so you cast WHaO, a 1s cast, 3/4 of the way through the cast, you swap pets=8s Quickness. You’re not casting heal immediately after swapping pets, you are using heal normally when you need to, but also deciding to swap pets then in order to get 8s Quickness. This is broken in itself because this could potentially have 50% uptime.
Now you don’t have to heal every time after you use QZ, but if you do and then decide to combo it with pet swap as discussed above then you will get 20s Quickness. Essentially you will have almost 50% uptime on Quickness for the cd of QZ. If you do not decide to pop heal, then your Quickness uptime is still ridiculous because of the 6s you get from QZ.
So now you are back to arguing that you will occasionally blow cooldowns when you don’t need to in order to get the benefit of the skill…. That’s part of what makes it balanced….
I mean I don’t see where I argued to blow cds. What about swapping pets right before you heal is blowing a cd? What about healing after using a stunbreak/condi clear, IF you need to heal, is blowing a cd? If you take those as “blowing” cds then ok fine I’m not going to argue with that point anymore.
I applaud effort but the devs who allowed this to go through need to be fired.
Care to elaborate on that or is this just another, ”I don’t know what killed me and I am too lazy to try to figure it out and see if I can counter it, so I’m just going to qq for nerfs” posts?
The reason why it is op is because it takes zero investment. Take the meta power survival build for instance which could now take zephyrs speed over beastly warden after it was nerfed. So the only “sacrifice” you have to make in your build is taking WHaO over TU. In exhcange for two condi removal every 20 seconds you can have 6-7s quickness just by swapping pets right before WHaO is cast. You can have 12-13s quickness by popping WHaO shortly after QZ is cast(say you just got bursted and need to stunbreak/heal). That’s totalling ~20s of quickness on a Marauder build just bc the Ranger was playing normally. Plus that’s only considering the boons you apply and not the other ones that would be on your pet from allies or traits etc.
That’s not good for balance and just adds to power creep, in the future people can say “oh look at Ranger they can have 20s quickness why can’t we have xxx.”
No investment… You just said they have to
-drop a condi removal
-drop their taunt (which up until yesterday was the providing the most qq about rangers)
-blow a stun break and condi removal
-blow a heal
-swap pets on cooldown rather than properly managing them and saving the swap for when they are in danger
Not to mention this is in PvP where everyone is running as much boonstripping as possible to deal with guardian’s and ele’s (who have easily been stacking boons without putting themselves in so much danger since forever).
How exactly is that OP again?
There is only 1 thing you have to invest in, which I said in my post was WHaO:
-I said that it is an exchange of only 2 condi cleanse every 20 seconds. In exchange for the potential of 20s quickness, pretty fair trade.
-It is questionable to slot taunt now when it is no longer broken and can be blocked/evaded. Zephyrs Speed offers more utility both with WHaO and general might stacking as well as for something like ressing or stomping.
-you misunderstand the gameplay, you don’t “blow” your skills, you use them normally as you would in any situation previously except now you can just have the potential for 20s quickness.
-you don’t swap the pets on cooldown, you swap them once again when you need to do so
And if you are playing normally you aren’t immediately healing after every pet swap and every time you use QZ, which means your point is moot.
No, again lets say you NEED to heal so you cast WHaO, a 1s cast, 3/4 of the way through the cast, you swap pets=8s Quickness. You’re not casting heal immediately after swapping pets, you are using heal normally when you need to, but also deciding to swap pets then in order to get 8s Quickness. This is broken in itself because this could potentially have 50% uptime.
Now you don’t have to heal every time after you use QZ, but if you do and then decide to combo it with pet swap as discussed above then you will get 20s Quickness. Essentially you will have almost 50% uptime on Quickness for the cd of QZ. If you do not decide to pop heal, then your Quickness uptime is still ridiculous because of the 6s you get from QZ.
I applaud effort but the devs who allowed this to go through need to be fired.
Care to elaborate on that or is this just another, ”I don’t know what killed me and I am too lazy to try to figure it out and see if I can counter it, so I’m just going to qq for nerfs” posts?
The reason why it is op is because it takes zero investment. Take the meta power survival build for instance which could now take zephyrs speed over beastly warden after it was nerfed. So the only “sacrifice” you have to make in your build is taking WHaO over TU. In exhcange for two condi removal every 20 seconds you can have 6-7s quickness just by swapping pets right before WHaO is cast. You can have 12-13s quickness by popping WHaO shortly after QZ is cast(say you just got bursted and need to stunbreak/heal). That’s totalling ~20s of quickness on a Marauder build just bc the Ranger was playing normally. Plus that’s only considering the boons you apply and not the other ones that would be on your pet from allies or traits etc.
That’s not good for balance and just adds to power creep, in the future people can say “oh look at Ranger they can have 20s quickness why can’t we have xxx.”
No investment… You just said they have to
-drop a condi removal
-drop their taunt (which up until yesterday was the providing the most qq about rangers)
-blow a stun break and condi removal
-blow a heal
-swap pets on cooldown rather than properly managing them and saving the swap for when they are in danger
Not to mention this is in PvP where everyone is running as much boonstripping as possible to deal with guardian’s and ele’s (who have easily been stacking boons without putting themselves in so much danger since forever).
How exactly is that OP again?
There is only 1 thing you have to invest in, which I said in my post was WHaO:
-I said that it is an exchange of only 2 condi cleanse every 20 seconds. In exchange for the potential of 20s quickness, pretty fair trade.
-It is questionable to slot taunt now when it is no longer broken and can be blocked/evaded. Zephyrs Speed offers more utility both with WHaO and general might stacking as well as for something like ressing or stomping.
-you misunderstand the gameplay, you don’t “blow” your skills, you use them normally as you would in any situation previously except now you can just have the potential for 20s quickness.
-you don’t swap the pets on cooldown, you swap them once again when you need to do so
I applaud effort but the devs who allowed this to go through need to be fired.
Care to elaborate on that or is this just another, ”I don’t know what killed me and I am too lazy to try to figure it out and see if I can counter it, so I’m just going to qq for nerfs” posts?
The reason why it is op is because it takes zero investment. Take the meta power survival build for instance which could now take zephyrs speed over beastly warden after it was nerfed. So the only “sacrifice” you have to make in your build is taking WHaO over TU. In exhcange for two condi removal every 20 seconds you can have 6-7s quickness just by swapping pets right before WHaO is cast. You can have 12-13s quickness by popping WHaO shortly after QZ is cast(say you just got bursted and need to stunbreak/heal). That’s totalling ~20s of quickness on a Marauder build just bc the Ranger was playing normally. Plus that’s only considering the boons you apply and not the other ones that would be on your pet from allies or traits etc.
That’s not good for balance and just adds to power creep, in the future people can say “oh look at Ranger they can have 20s quickness why can’t we have xxx.”
What is this? 3rd grade? “He has it! I have to have it too!!” Say it out loud and listen how silly that sounds.
Funny considering the response coming out of the Ranger forums to this is that “I don’t see the problem since every other class can stack boons too.” But try to actually contribute to the discussion instead of trying to detract from the argument without actually having a counter-argument please.
I applaud effort but the devs who allowed this to go through need to be fired.
Care to elaborate on that or is this just another, ”I don’t know what killed me and I am too lazy to try to figure it out and see if I can counter it, so I’m just going to qq for nerfs” posts?
The reason why it is op is because it takes zero investment. Take the meta power survival build for instance which could now take zephyrs speed over beastly warden after it was nerfed. So the only “sacrifice” you have to make in your build is taking WHaO over TU. In exhcange for two condi removal every 20 seconds you can have 6-7s quickness just by swapping pets right before WHaO is cast. You can have 12-13s quickness by popping WHaO shortly after QZ is cast(say you just got bursted and need to stunbreak/heal). That’s totalling ~20s of quickness on a Marauder build just bc the Ranger was playing normally. Plus that’s only considering the boons you apply and not the other ones that would be on your pet from allies or traits etc.
That’s not good for balance and just adds to power creep, in the future people can say “oh look at Ranger they can have 20s quickness why can’t we have xxx.”
Yes We heal as one is realy strong atm but think how will thing be after one month when moust of classes can stack 25 might by them self have hig fury up time/crit chanse easily + other stuff like that.
it will be finally a time where boon stripping/stealing/corrupion will be needed…and this will add this much needed layer of gameplay. I wouldn’t mind that!
That would be great if every class could actually strip boons.
only on ranger forums you find people actually saying their class is op and needs a nerf… XD
Maybe by many non rangers. OP seems to be a ranger..appearently but I’m okay with the way WHaO is currently. It’s finally useful at all.
Ranger is my only class. Things like this should get nipped in the bud quickly so that it doesn’t result in nerfs later down the line. I am perfectly fine with WHaO sharing boons, but I don’t think it should share 100% duration.
No wonder you don’t know how Ele and Warrior can always do this before the patch, with access to more cleanse and passive heal!
Oh really? They can get 15s quickness by pressing two buttons? Teach me how to do that plox.
You click that Quickness and you’re toasted later since you burn your stun break, heal, condition removal just for that.
Wow the thought never occurred to me to not pop them before a fight, but rather wait until I need to use my stun break and heal, so smart. Or just to swap pets right before I use my heal during a fight to get 8s quickness. Wow so much strat.
Except that is not how it works. When you are pressured and usually will stunbreak you follow with a soft disengage using hunters shot and dont turn on your opponent full pewpew mode. It does NOT work like that versus any decent opponent.
The quickness uptime is high vs golems in the mist but ingame those builds are just too gimicky to efficiently use them and the damage increase just doesn’t translate well. MoC, Remorseless, Sigils and the Might Stacking do a much better job for damage increase.
It doesn’t work to kite when you have super speed and .5s cast WHaO? What doesn’t work? What is gimmicky about waiting to use your stun break/condi cleanse and heal until you need them?
Are you actively trying to not understand my post? Obv you wanna stunbreak/condi clear but very rarely you can then just blow your heal to get 15 seconds of quickness that you then even can efficiently utilize for damage. That is a completely unrealistic dream scenario. That 15s quickness will happen sometimes if your stars align but even then getting enough profit out of it to even justify the build is unlikely.
Builds that utilize the might and don’t run QZ at all can make much more profit out of this WHAO buff.
Who says that the Quickness is used for damage? Why can’t it be used to do something like disengage or use defensive utility or make your pet more reliably hit with their F2?
You’re also just considering the prospect of boons that only the Ranger can apply. Say for instance that a Guard casts Feel My Wrath, all of a sudden you COULD now have 10s quickness. Just because you have WHaO on your bar.
I am not calling for the functionality to be gutted, just that the boon transfer has limited duration at least for quickness. Its quite simple really.
QZ functions fine by itself for the thing that you mentioned even without WHaO.
WHaO only make it slightly better, but not much…
I’d take QZ even without WHaO, so your argument of WHaO being OP is irrelevant.
Btw, I bet you never see Guardians stacking group Quickness in action before.
Ofc QZ is a fine by itself, its one of our best utilities. The point is: why would you use another heal when you have the potential to share all boons with your pet and access to something like 15s quickness. I would easily take WHaO without QZ so your argument is irrelevant(great logic btw).
Not even going to respond to the last part, but it made me laugh good job, I wish I could have as much experience and knowledge as you do.
At least I know every single profession, played all of them, and know what they can do and can’t do.
That’s why I don’t act like someone who only play one class and suddenly thinks himself OP by playing a gimmick spec, without even testing in real PVP situation.
Hf theory crafting or doing your outdoor PVE contents.
Lel gg. True colors. Apparently I am unable of knowing how other professions work if I haven’t played them because I can’t research them or watch other people play them.
I can assure you I tested it in real PVP situations(but that won’t matter because you will just claim I obviously played against uber noobs), I don’t see what is gimmicky about taking our best PVP build and simply using WHaO over TU, but maybe if I played other classes like you do I would have so much more experience and see why that is a gimmick.
Once again don’t really have anything to say about the last part of your post except lel and gg mate.
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