I think the most interesting comment from Irenio in that interview was that these drone bots will be effected by the players boons. He didn’t mention that they’d need a trait for it like our pets do.
tht may actually be more problematic than good – as currently all of support skills have limit of targets affected (5) and if they count on same priority on receiving them as player then in potential team of 5 scrappers it would not be so rare to see someone throwing a boon totally intercepted by bots with no other player than caster gets the boon :P
team of 5 rangers of the other hand…..
[ah wait do ranger even have boons he can throw around to a friendlies?]
so team of 4 rangers and a guardian on the other hand :P
and the odds of any boon from guardian missing any of ranger players (assuming all of the actually being in range) are extremely small :P
That’s not the point of the original comment. If drones get the boons of the engi without a trait or anything, then that means that the boon priority will go to players and the drones just get the boons of the Engineer as baseline, which is something that is not true for pets or spirits.
You can’t reset skill points once you unlock a skill it remains unlocked. If you want other skills then you need to earn more skill points to unlock them.
I don’t really remember that well, but I would venture a guess that the active is slower because it got nerfed back when spirit rangers were a thing in Spvp. I agree that MoC should proc on it though.
Warrior was good in general pve for vanquishing and stuff like that. Axe, hammer, and sword all had viable build options. Speed clears were dominated by assassins of course (or R/A) because Shadow Form was literally God Mode. Warriors could be used in fowsc as well, dervishes were better, but war was still viable so it’s not as if they had zero place in endgame pve.
Edit: also Rangers were meh in general pve. I remember we had that one turret build for awhile that could spike pretty hard, but in general you had to abuse Expertise for dagger, scythe, sword, or spirit spam to do anything really.
Anyway – Give the guardians a break – first two beta weekends the LB was bad. Just bad.
Oh don’t misunderstand. I completely agree with the changes and enjoy the fact that Guardians are getting what they asked for because it indicates that the devs are actually listening with the especs.
Once again though, it is just funny because LB on Ranger was very bad for like 2 years. Rapid Fire was a DPS decrease, hunters shot didn’t have stealth and Barrage tickled people (still does), all the projectiles were essentially strafe-able before the implementation of Read the Wind which eventually became baseline, Auto was ok, but it got a lot better with more recent changes.
i dont get it. are we arguing that Guardians should have crappy LB velocity and super slow traps just because “screw those guys”?
its a quality of life issue. good for them for getting improvements.
No we weren’t arguing anything, just making observations of how quickly the guardian received changes. Just saying it took what, ~2 years? for lb projectile velocity to be upped on ranger and even then it took a grandmaster trait to do it, before eventual baseline status.
Also the extent to which the guardian is receiving changes and feedback is being evaluated is another low blow considering the BWE disparity compared to ranger at this point in time. All just observations of course.
Traps (general): Reduced the cast time of all traps to 1/2 second, down from 1 second.
Same as the Ranger. At least it’s consistency.
If you go on Guardian forum, you can see many asking to make traps throw-able or to become marks (Eh, aren’t they becoming like Symbols at this point ? Also, marks do one time damage, not over time like traps, but anyway I guess they want both). Will the dev make the traps throw-able just because Guardian players asked them ? I wouldn’t be surprised.
I find it funny that people are asking for stuff that rangers have clamored for such as throwable traps, multiple trap stacks, traps doing something extra other than damaging enemies, the lack of stability/condi removal/etc when running three traps. Idk why, I just find it comical.
Edit: oh also how they demanded projectile velocity increase on lb skills and got them without having to pick a trait in order to do so.
Ya, that tends to happen after three years of “crickets…” responses to criticism and number crunching.
Virtually everything the ranger has right now is the result of non-stop kittening. Just as an example, we had roughly 2 years of our signets not even affecting the player by default. You used to have to bring a grand master trait just to get them to work like every other class.
Lol, I remember when people counter-argued that it was justified because Ranger signets were different from other classes. It was great design though obviously to have people shoehorned 30 pts into Marksmanship just to get SoS to work.
Forge is such a stupid name, it is an inanimate object. The only way it makes sense is if the engineer is the “forge” for the drones, which is still dumb.
While in PvP you cannot bring food to become condi immune with minus 40 percent duration, you are screwed in WvW if you don’t. And do you expect people to have 20 different types of food just to negate the enemy’s everytime you encounter a new one?
Maybe you didn’t get the point, but a single piece of food tips the balance of the build by 40%. 40 freaking percent. Whichever way you try to defend it – that kind of amount is not acceptable when discussing dueling balance or potential (e.g. there’s no food to increase Direct damage by 40% – which already makes Zerk builds for dueling obsolete – that’s how balance-breaking the difference is)
I somewhat disagree. The food wasn’t what made zerk builds worse, it was the condi changes that hurt more. Food for condi builds might be good yeah, but theres also food that steals health on critical for instance which can give some sustain to builds that otherwise wouldn’t have it.
See pvp is different from wvw not because of the food, but bc of the structure. Pvp is structured around points. Both modes require skill, both modes also employ strat, but they’re just different. Food is dumb in certain cases only bc it offers for instance 40% to condi duration, when condi specific food is no where near as effective.
There aren’t any scenarios where Axe will outdps sword there are situations where I would take a/a over s/a For example uncategorized fractal when you’re fighting shaman and ettin sotp+qz for 25 stacks of might almost instantly and swap to lb for double rapid fire. Just because it isn’t meta doesn’t mean it only has 1 useful skill and there aren’t situations where it can’t be used
This I can agree with.
But then again, you can’t summarize and generalize according to a single situational weapon use (that actually doesn’t even promote weapon – but your off-hand slot that benefits from Might from Axe).
Weapons should be balanced and improved in the way to fulfill their role and purpose. It’s wrong if a weapon has traits promoting stat combination that doesn’t have any single competitive place.
There could easily be situations where axe will outdps sword. One cannot assume that targets will always be in cleave range for sword to hit multiple targets. Axe is of course a ranged weapon. It is a kiting weapon, #2 is an AoE skill that can have an amplified effect on a single target in PBAoE. Just because the skill is terribad if it doesn’t hit x5 on a single target doesn’t mean that it is a skill that is designed to be used as a shotgun, and it doesn’t make the weapon melee. It means that the skill is poorly designed as is much of the other stuff on the ranger. We’re talking about single stacks of might on traits, utilities like sharpening stone, an aa on axe that originally didn’t have the might stacking or any condition application, sb with no pressure outside of aa with positional requirements, stuff like that.
You claim that it is wrong for a weapon to have trait choices that don’t support its role or right stat combinations and yet you assume that your idea of the role of Axe is the same as Anet’s vision, which is probably incorrect considering they gave us a trait that gives ferocity when wielding Axe. Axe is a better aoe range weapon and sword is better single target damage.
Don’t apologize, your english is great. The first build is one of the most tanky builds and setups you can get for ranger. I played that setup a lot in the past and it is decently viable, you just don’t really have that much group support.
If you want the extra recharge reduction from the Signet trait then I would probably take Marksmanship instead of Nature Magic. Also if you want more survivability or much cheaper runes, Melandru is good alternate to Hoelbrak
In Wvw roaming as full glass lb/melee: can’t kill d/d ele the sustain is ridiculous, medi guard can go either way, only other class I may hesitate about engaging with is war bc cc game may be too strong. Thieves can instagib if I don’t see them and I tend to ignore them bc stealth is a pretty hard counter to the lb utility anyway/I usually don’t really feel like fighting peeps who are gonna stealth and split.
You just proved my point tbh. You essentially just called people either bad or liars because you think Rangers are good while they think Rangers are bad. I don’t really care anymore; the discourse has been this way for three years on the forums and in game. #RangerProblems
If you weren’t just who you want me to make – you’d know my opinion as much as others do.
Rangers are not bad – we are just not overpowered as some no-named classes.
While there isn’t a single word of those you put into my virtual mouth – there are plenty of those you yourself provided to make yourself a subject for your own delusions (if you look closely, you currently are the one trying to make me look bad, right? Which means you are proving your point yourself. Correct me if I’m wrong).
The discourse has been drawing along for much longer since it’s never been just this game in particular, not even gaming while we are at that. If you don’t feel like contributing to the thread by anything else than trying to make people look as idiots, don’t contribute at all.
These are problems of human race and social interaction breakdown. # euphoria do not really help getting it back together.
Nope. You started flaming the OP by insinuating that he does stuff like PBS enemies out of melee etc. Furthermore, you claimed that bugs that people find don’t actually exist. I don’t have to contribute anything of substance, but I did actually contribute something to this thread which was obviously a joke thread and then you, among others, decided to flame the op, hence proving my statement correct.
Edit: my bad you didn’t flame the OP, you flamed me by claiming I probably do stuff like PBS enemies out of melee.
Class so meh that it starts flame wars on the forums. #RangerProblems
This is not about the class at all.
It’s about people who play it or they think they do.
Do you know that our reputation is as bad as it is purely because of people and not a single piece of mechanic?
Bear pets for PvE (dps), Longbow only, Point Blank shotting out of melee range, pulling mobs because of poor pet handling.
Well I don’t see a single bug in the list.
And we have a really strict measure for people of that kind. Everywhere, in game and out. That’s all there is to it.
You just proved my point tbh. You essentially just called people either bad or liars because you think Rangers are good while they think Rangers are bad. I don’t really care anymore; the discourse has been this way for three years on the forums and in game. #RangerProblems
I have run zerk SB as my main build since January.
It’s a different animal to other weaponsets, and requires practice to perfect. Remember, all of your arrows do the same upfront damage, it’s a matter of using the correct arrow for the situation.
Of course, sitting at 2k range auto attacking with longbow will do more damage, but I prefer to work for my kills and not rely on a gimmick weaponset.
SB is more of a gimmick weapon than LB ever since RF was changed.
Just take a look at Gauntlet Challange with Liadri the Concealing Dark. I spend 3~4 hours trying to kill her when it was released. One year later it was made so much easier. I didn’t fought her for one year, but killed her then after the first try.
So? You got to have your ego stroked for a year that you completed it and others didn’t, assuming you did in fact beat it. Who cares if it was lowered in difficulty? Why are people so concerned about whether or not other people can complete content?
10 makes sense with the game mechanics “two 5 man parties”. Be adults about it if you have 1 extra person and rotate, or expand your guild/guild connections to get 9 more people who would want to do it.
Because it is in beta.
During the betas we don’t need to be disappointed at all, we just need to give the needed feedback.
If druid sucks at live game then you can be as disappointed as you want, and I’ll be really disappointed too and move on with rangers in general.
It may be in beta, but its not as if the spec will undergo major changes before it goes live. Some tweaking of course, but not much more. It’s not like they can just scrap their design and redo it; if their idea for the mechanics/utilities/whatever are broken or dumb they’re largely going to stay that way. If I’m disappointed that skill 3 doesn’t do enough damage or needs longer duration or whatever then I can express that. However, if I’m disappointed in the theme behind the spec because it doesn’t really address the problems with the class, then there’s not much I can do.
If druid sucks in beta or doesn’t give people any reason to hope for the class then thats it, its over. The tunnel collapsed, there is no light anymore.
Why can’t people be utterly disappointed? With the level of some of the other specs like reaper/chrono/daredevil/berserker it would be extremely disappointing for Druid to be lackluster. Just look at how much effort and creativity went into berserker with the skill concepts and animations. If our theoretical disappointment is not expressed then it is unlikely that substantive changes will be made. Imo, if the spec is garbage from the start, no amount of positive feedback will fix it properly. One cannot build a monument without a foundation. Let’s not forget that criticism doesn’t have to be positive for it to be constructive. Disappointment and analytical reasoning as to why a spec is bad is just as good as positive encouragements.
Once again it’s not as if either the engi or ranger have great track records to be giving the devs a pass here. If people are unhappy they need to express it from the very beginning.
No, mainly due to the fact no one even runs spirits in PvP
Probably overlooked by anet since why would they even bother testing spirits in PvP before implementing the changes in game right? Who in their right minds would use spirits in PvP lol
I quoted bug because it could be intentional lol, I have no idea why it would be, but just wanted peeps to be aware of this if they pvp.
It’s all speculation how far along the remaining two are, I’m sure Anet has their reason, whatever it may be. We don’t need to agree with it, it’s a closed beta, not an open beta, not a pre-release, it’s not uncommon for parts to be gradually added to closed betas as they become ready to test.
People don’t need to agree with it, but anet needs them to agree with their wallets, which many players are reluctant to do until they see these specs. It’s not like these two classes have great track records. Speculation as to how far the specs are coming along is irrelevant.
There are two possibilities. If the classes are ready then why aren’t they in the beta so people can at least give the feedback, regardless of if anything is done with it. If the classes aren’t ready, it just worries people even more that they will be rushed to meet whatever deadline is set and the feedback that is given will be ineffective.
If they are “confident” in the classes then why wouldn’t they put them in beta already? Because they’re not finished? I’d be hesitant to express confidence in something that is unfinished. I’m sure they are taking their time though. It’d just be nice to have a chance to provide enough feedback. The ranger forum has tons and tons of feedback on bugs and whatnot that haven’t been addressed for years.
People are just worried that presumably what little time they have to test the spec won’t be sufficient. Ranger mains feel neglected as usual.
Don’t want a potential hybrid personally. Think it will just be condition. Think the three lines should be like Aspect+Glyph/Condi/Support. I am hoping, although it is probably unlikely, that a few of the staff skills summon nature spirits that can be affected by spirit traits and that there is a trait or two in a “support” line for them.
I imagine like a doomsday clock on the wall and the devs are just in the fetal position crying bc they don’t know what to do with Druid. They honestly tried to fix the class, but realized it was just too far gone. “What the kitten are we gonna do, it’s game over man, it’s game over.” Tbf I don’t know how good they can really make Druid without it feeling like a straight, must have 1/3 upgrade and satisfy people at the same time. We’ll see.
And since the glyphs have absolutly no use in their own profession, it’s a bit scary.
I’m a bit concerned about that, too. For Elementalists, it’s not exactly that the effects of Glyphs aren’t worthwhile, it’s that the cooldowns attached are absolutely NOT fitted to such effects. So long as we don’t get the one-cast-every-two-battles bullhockey that Elementalist Glyphs have, though, I can see them offering some very nice versatility and potency.
Yes, you’re right but they still give to the druid one of the most unreliable utility type in the game so far. Based on the fact that the CD is the first issue of those utilities this http://i.imgur.com/IcGtSWn.png augurs well to you ?
You don’t know how long the cd will be on the glyphs nor what their effects will be. Just bc they’re long on ele doesn’t mean they will be long on ranger. Furthermore the Aspect swap mechanic is an unknown as well so the swapping could actually knock down the cd quite a bit.
I know, i have no anwsers. There is nothing to expect with the swapping mechanic itself i think but maybe a break stun or a clean. So the aspect swap looks to reduce the glyphs’s cd (1/2 sec per affected foe). Alright, the aspect swap CD is probably short, the glyphs CD maybe is too (or not).
Let’s take the Reaper trait (Chronomancer’s alacrity is too cool for the Druid)" shout recharge faster for each foe they hit, 7 % per foe" (one foe is already 2 sec recharge on a 30 sec based shout CD). Simple trait, simple maths, simple effect.
Our glyphs CD recharge looks to depend on the number of affected foes AND by an another skill that ALSO have a CD. I mean, it’s already a tortuous idea to me. As Lug said, Druid need group fighting utilites and support capabilites not some weird sub-mechanics. I am just a bit worried, nothing more.
I understand the concern, I am worried it won’t be too great either, but it is a possibility that aspect swaps will have effects for allies as well as enemies. So if there were 5 allies and 5 enemies affected then it would reduce recharge by 5s. Swapping aspects 3 times could therefore reduce recharge by 15s. The tooltip of the trait says “for every target affected” so it could easily be possible that Aspect swaps affect allied and enemy targets. We just don’t know at this point.
And since the glyphs have absolutly no use in their own profession, it’s a bit scary.
I’m a bit concerned about that, too. For Elementalists, it’s not exactly that the effects of Glyphs aren’t worthwhile, it’s that the cooldowns attached are absolutely NOT fitted to such effects. So long as we don’t get the one-cast-every-two-battles bullhockey that Elementalist Glyphs have, though, I can see them offering some very nice versatility and potency.
Yes, you’re right but they still give to the druid one of the most unreliable utility type in the game so far. Based on the fact that the CD is the first issue of those utilities this http://i.imgur.com/IcGtSWn.png augurs well to you ?
You don’t know how long the cd will be on the glyphs nor what their effects will be. Just bc they’re long on ele doesn’t mean they will be long on ranger. Furthermore the Aspect swap mechanic is an unknown as well so the swapping could actually knock down the cd quite a bit.
Yeah the pressure for the Druid is huge.
I’m usually very optimist, but this time if Druid doesn’t stand up in any game mode (since currently ranger is the only class that isn’t in any meta) I’ll quit my ranger and just play other class, I have ascended gear of every weight and all classes at 80 anyway, switch won’t be a problem at all.
Druid doesn’t need to be the best at anything but at least have something that makes us a wanted option and not just acceptable if nothing else is available.
Seriously, imo the Ranger needs to be the best at something. Like it needs to be op at launch and then worked down from there. When have rangers every had anything that was op? Pets scaling walls in wvw? That “bugged” short bow animation? lol. Wait I forgot the legendary Aquaman period we went through.
Call it pessimistic, but it’s probably because they scrapped their original design halfway through or had it made and realized it was meh compared to the other specs and had to redo it. I think they do understand that this is probably the last straw for many ranger players. Get neglected for 3 years, look at swoop change LOL, and Anet fails to deliver on one of the things the community has clamored for in group support? That would be it for a lot of players probably.
Just to confirm, this is from a PVE perspective, right? Because in PVP I imagine the high updtime for evades would contribute meaningfully to the overall performance of the weapon.
Nop. The only game mode I play is WvW, these peeps just assume I pve bc they think I’m bad or weird for having a different opinion I guess. In solo roaming I don’t think I have ever tried to auto someone with gs so I can get my evades, if I’m AA then it is for damage. Imho if I’m going for a defensive set to pair with lb (only running pewpew atm) it’s going to be s/d. If someone is going to stand there and not kite and let you hit them with gs then yeah it might be useful. Evade is decent in zerging as well, but frontlining is meh bc your damage once again is questionable and you’re soaking boons whilst providing little to no utility.
It’s simple really, I would give up evade on auto or decrease the frames in exchange for damage if necessary. Would much rather be able to pressure than get my evades. Considering that in general opponents attempt to cling on Lb rangers in melee, it’d be nice to give them something to hesitate about other than BearJesus.
The next necro spec should be called gravekeeper for the amount of necro-ing that happened here, but on a serious note it would be very surprising if the Druid is not based around support/aoe capability as the Ranger community has been demanding this for years.
It just would be nice for gs to have some pressure is all. This weapon is small modifications away from being a serious threat. Auto boost with quickdraw maul….
Oh well. For the class of “sustained damage”, as the devs like to put it, to have the weakest auto. Smh. Last thought.
Everything about the greatsword on the ranger is designed for burst damage. Sustained evades to sustain while on cooldowns, two CC’s, an evade, a leap, and a block. And then you have maul, which allows for the biggest damage on a single hit possible in the game. Yes, when traited and gear for properly, Maul can and will hit higher than a full-glass thief’s backstab. Any declaration about the GS being “designed” for DPS is completely arbitrary defined by non-logical reasoning that the skills themselves deal damage.
The greatsword being DPS on other classes has nothing to do with the greatsword’s DPS on the ranger. Sword is one of the ranger’s DPS weapons, Axe actually does more, but on a sinister condi build. Dagger and sword are for the thief, but not for the ele, which instead gets DPS from the scepter. Fun fact, aside from Hundred Blades, the DPS for the warrior is better on Axe than GS. The GS’s auto on the warrior is actually rather weak compared to the Axe’s, and yet the dagger is better for the Necro’s DPS over the axe. And back to the thief again, the optimal DPS weapons change based on the mob’s health. Dagger can only do more than the sword because heartseeker gets crazy scaling below 25%.
A proper example of an offensive spec designed to be offensive is Axe/Axe warrior. There are no defensive components to this set whatsoever, and none of them can really be argued as being useful for defense in regards to mitigating or preventing damage.
So there’s literally no trend here, and your argument is incoherent.
Apparently burst skills don’t contribute to dps, especially not ones on a 6s cd. So let me get this straight. Maul with the right set-up can outspike backstab. This statement on its own is completely false btw. On the other hand, Maul is on a 6s cd and is the hardest hitting spike skill in the game, but GS is not a dps weapon. Please explain that to me so that I may understand what a coherent argument looks like.
I don’t really care to argue this point anymore, but the fact that the coefficients on ranger auto are lower than every other profession is stupid. The fact that it has lower coefficients than the faster attacking sword is stupid. The evasion could be justified on auto bc we are not a heavy class. However, if the dps of the gs is increased to what it should be, then it may warrant removing the evade on either swoop or auto and it may not. That would depend on balance.
