Guild Wars 2

As if thieves and warriors aren’t exactly the same “Shazam! You are dead” machines? >.>

But please JonathanSharp and devs…if you’re going to nerf Mesmers any more, then do something to thieves’ and warriors’ burst damage as well – not to mention fixing any bugs related to any nerfed classes so that you don’t leave them crippled after nerfs…

Many of us run burst and glass cannon builds because we all know that when it comes to duels and skirmishes, a good offense is a good defense – you can’t kill me if you’re dead first. With the chaotic and fast-paced game play this game has, you can’t blame us for wanting to take up these builds, especially to counter thieves.

Talked to Tixx in Heart of the Mists and got nothing.

Snoring Sleepwalker.9073:

How will your algorithm work when ANET adds new servers that have no color history and they get placed against servers which have a color history ?
What are the initial values ?

What happens if the random number generator goes strange and gives one server a long run of only two colors ?

Another algorithm is one that remembers how many times each server has had a specific color. When it comes time to assign the colors, the algorithm finds the server and color combination that has come up the lowest number of times. That combination is then assigned for the upcoming round.
The algorithm then does the same for the remaining servers.

When there is a tie, use a tiebreaker method. How is unimportant. Randomness is not required.

This method guarantees that every server will go through all colors eventually. If the brackets don’t change, each server will go through the following:
Match 1: Random color
Match 2: Random color that wasn’t used in match 1
Match 3: Final color
Then the cycle repeats. Though the color for Match 4 is only guaranteed to be the Match 1 color if the tiebreaker method is a non-random method.

New servers are easy to add in, as their history values start at 0. Which means that they are going to be cycling their colors even more reliably than older servers, because the new servers will always have significantly lower history numbers.

If a server stays away from one color for a while, then the other servers history numbers for that color will exceed its one. So all servers are guaranteed to go through all colors in time.

It’s not a problem if Anet adds new servers with no prior history. The algorithm will still work. The initial history, as described in the algorithm, is an empty list. At that state, if that server gets to pick its color first, it will select one at random – in which it won’t care because it has yet to see any colors. If that server gets to pick its color second, it will still have 2 colors left to pick from – of which it doesn’t care for the same reason as well. Same logic applies if it were to pick last. If that server now has 1 color in its history, it will now have a 100% chance of not picking a duplicate color if that server gets to pick either 1st or 2nd. Only in the case when it is selected last (1/3), will it have some probability of getting a color that it has already seen in the past 2 rounds. After that, it will be as fair as any old server.

RNGs breaking should be the least of your concerns as an algorithm designer when designing a randomized algorithm. There are many good ones out there in a myriad of libraries. If you’re arguing against the use of randomization at all, then that’s a different story – I was merely giving an example heuristic of what could be better than complete random selection – something you proposed in your response to my initial post.

I actually like your proposed algorithm just now…except there could be a problem of prolonged stagnation for older servers vs. newer servers if there is already some imbalance created among the older servers as a result of tier-changing and tie-breaking, whereas I think a more randomized (but not complete) algorithm that only looks at a small window of previous history is less likely to cause starvation/stagnation.

On a side note, I find this problem somewhat similar in nature to the ETA estimator problem…where a decision (or calculation) is to be made based on random events (e.g. sudden slow-down or speed-ups vs. new servers being created or servers jumping tiers) such that the outcome meets some expectation based on prior data.

An example of how the above would work…let’s take JQ, SoS, and SBI as example world matchups.

Round 1

Pure randomized ordering of who to pick colors. Let’s say the order is: JQ, SoS, and finally SBI.

JQ has 1/3 chance at getting green, blue, or red. Suppose it gets blue. After this, SoS has 1/2 chance at picking either red or green – assume SoS gets green. Now SBI is left with 100% chance at getting red. This is the end of round 1. Save the current result into each world’s history (of up to 2 prior rounds). So at the end of round 1, we’ll have:

JQ: blue
SoS: green
SBI: red

Round 2

We do the exact same thing as last time in randomly selecting the order in which the worlds will pick colors. Let’s suppose that the order this time is SBI, JQ, SoS.

Now each world will randomly select a color such that if a color chosen is already in its history, that world will roll for a color again until the possible colors to pick from have been exhausted or when the world gets a color that was not in its history, whichever comes first.

This means that SBI can only get green or blue this round, since red would already be in its history. Let’s suppose SBI gets blue this time. Now JQ’s only choices, based on its history and what SBI has chosen already this round (blue), would be green or red. Suppose JQ gets green. This leaves SoS with red. So at the end of round 2, the history of colors would be as follows:

JQ: blue, green
SoS: green, red
SBI: red, blue

Up to this point, no world has been knocked into another tier yet. If this continues, the next round will ensure that JQ will get red, SoS blue, and SBI green. We would then replace the first item in the history of each server by this, and the next round, we will replace the second item in the history…then first, then second, so on and so forth.

But let’s suppose that in round 3, JQ gets knocked to a different tier and swaps places with Dragonbrand, whose history is identical to that of SBI’s. We want to ensure fairest selection such that all worlds are given different colors if possible. Let’s focus on SoS, SBI, and Dragonbrand (since they’re in the same tier…the same logic can be applied to JQ and whatever other two servers it gets paired with). So at the beginning of round 3 (counter in the algorithm would actually now reset to 0), the history for our world matchups are as follows:

SoS: green, red
SBI: red, blue
Dragonbrand: red, blue

Again, randomly select an order for worlds to pick colors. Suppose the order this time is SoS, Dragonbrand, and SBI.

Based on the algorithm, SoS would get blue because it would retry if it rolls either green or red (since both are in its history). Now Dragonbrand can choose between green and red – and it will select green because green is not in its history, leaving SBI with red again. In this sequence of world selection, the algorithm was able to ensure that two worlds got different colors for all 3 rounds.

You can experiment with other scenarios. And while this algorithm doesn’t completely prevent repeated colors each round, it does help ensure that in any particular round, at least 1 world will get something different from what it has gotten in the previous two rounds – which is better than a pure random selection.

Snoring Sleepwalker.9073:

The breakout mechanic is only going to make this harder because the tower nearest each servers spawn on enemy borderlands is going to be very difficult to hold for any length of time.

How would your rotation work when servers shift from one bracket to another ?

I think randomizing the colors each WvW reset would be a simpler option to produce the same result.

Randomizing the colors each WvW reset would be simpler, but point of me asking for some kind of cycling system is that there should be some sort of heuristic to try to ensure that no world will have the same color as what it has gotten in the past 2 rounds – and that can vary based on implementation. Currently, there is obviously no such system, which results in even worlds in the same tier getting the same color round after round.

It doesn’t necessarily have to be a strict cycling system, per se. Since you asked, I came up with an algorithm/pseudocode (warning, not for the algorithm/programming illiterate) that will guarantee that at least 1 world in any round will get a different color from what it has gotten in the previous 2 rounds – with an example that follows (if you want to skip straight to that):

for world in worldMatchups:
    world.colorHistory = [null, null]

round = 0

do:
    if round > 1: 
        round = 0
    // a list containing the possible colors to choose from
    unobtainedColors = [red, green, blue]
    worldMatchups.shuffle()

    for world in worldMatchups:
        color = selectColor(world.colorHistory, unobtainedColors)
        unobtainedColors.remove(color)
        world.colorHistory[round] = color
        world.color = color

     round += 1
while true

selectColor(colorHistory, unobtainedColors):
    unobtainedColors.shuffle()
    for color in unobtainedColors:
        if color not in colorHistory:
            return color
    return unobtainedColors.first() // all unobtained colors are in history...so just take the first one (it's randomized already)

I’m surprised that this isn’t in the game yet…it’s been a long time now…

Signed. I was actually very surprised that this game didn’t have such a thing…when I quit MapleStory.

I’m sure I’m not the only person who gets irked by the requirement to complete all WvW maps for 100% world completion. Simply put, some of us don’t like getting zerged or playing for the competitive aspect. While it doesn’t do harm to require exploration of the mists for world completion, players really shouldn’t have to go out of their way to join a dominating server to complete a rather basic achievement.

The latest patch gives losing servers a way to gain grounds. However, it’s still not enough when it comes to map completion. Why? Colors.

I have been patiently waiting for our server to get green for the past few weeks (maybe a month now), and it really ticks me off to see our server land with either red or blue again each time WvW resets. I’m from a tier 1 server (Jade Quarry), and the match up each week just never changes. It’s always Sea of Sorrows vs. Stormbluff Isles vs. Jade Quarry. Week after week. For the past month now, Sea of Sorrow has had green, and Jade Quarry and Stormbluff Isle kept switching back and forth between blue and red.

Needless to say, this encourages server hopping for the world completion. Stonemist Castle would be flipped a few times…but we can never seem to get the SoS borderlands map. In the end, I decided to hop over to SoS for a week (now that ArenaNet has expanded server size as of Wintersday patch) just for the world completion.

It’s pretty ridiculous…and it’s something that can be solved by simply guaranteeing a rotation system of colors if the match ups don’t change often (and they tend not to).

It’s not overpowered. We’re already weak as hell as it is. Shatter is strong, but it’s still nothing compared to thieves and warriors. Anet stated that Mesmers are supposed to be strong while illusions are out…and more or less helpless when they’re destroyed. Well, you know what?! I guess it’s time for people to also finally learn to kill/disable our illusions and Phantasms instead of looking for that bugged World Completion star and go straight after us!

Writetyper.1985:

NightyNight.1823:

Isord.2751:

NightyNight, if you are so good on thief, why don’t you show the rest of us a solo Lupicus kill?

Until you do, thief is still going to be bellow warrior in terms of utility in dungeons.

I don’t even need to adress that , its self explanatory.

No, it isn’t. Do please share

Robert Hrouda.1327:

stof.9341:

Why should “Reckless Dodge” allow you to exit the bubble when the trait is just supposed to add some damage at end of roll?

That seems to be the issue at hand – is that wreckless dodge is cancelling out the behavior intended for the bubble.

I’ll say…nicely done, ArenaNet. =)

I like it. =)

Let’s hope no regressions…

It’s connecting…connecting… =(

Ironvos.9014:

I honestly wouldn’t be that surprised if one these did in some way make it to the real patch notes

Or better yet, not in the patch notes but in game regardless…

Dinama.3764:

Trait “Confusing Combatants” (Dueling 25) is working correctly now. I see stacks of confusion every time my clone dies.

There’s a diff. between clones and illusions in general. The latter would include Phantasms too.

Sarcasmic.6741:

You mean increased movement speed for each active illusion isn’t a valid means of getting around faster?

You mean wasting a whole 10 Trait points to move UP to 15% faster while in battle sometimes (assuming you keep all 3 illusions alive)? >_>

And nevermind the fact that our Phantasms can be shut off entirely by roll/blind/invulnerable…so good luck spawning 3 and keeping them alive while a thief goes under stealth and 2HKO you from behind with Heartseeker. -_-

On another note, your post is quite ironic given your display name.

Super glad to hear, Jon! =)

Overall I think this game’s sound mechanics can use improvement. Far too many times do my skills’ sounds not play properly when I attack. This gets even worse for melee classes ‘cause they essentially don’t “feel” as if they’re hitting anything. It probably has to do with how they’re mixing and overlaying the sounds effects…

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Restorative_Mantras

One issue with the Mesmer analysis is that you can’t really substitute Warrior’s shield 5 with Mesmer’s sword 4 or scepter 3 – those two attacks only block once in a chain, and doesn’t give the same mobility and complete duration blocking as Warrior’s GS 3 and shield 5.

Malediktus.9250:

Sleepy.2647:

Considering there is people on their lvl 50+ and they probably get oneshotted by any agony attack, i’d say you can make it to any point without agony as long as you can handle Jade Maw with some “tactics” and certain classes.

rezz orb from gem shop will do the trick nicely

Let’s not go there. I would really rather this game not become MapleStory (which I’ve quit for this exact reason).

Hello Jon,

I just want to let you how much I appreciate you taking your time to give us feedback regarding the progress you’re making towards this issue. It’s clear that the community (I myself included) is frustrated at all these bugs and want to see positive changes in the coming weeks.

While not everyone here understands the pressure and difficulty in hustled fixes over existing bugs/regressions based on priorities set by management (even if you or other devs are aware of/care very much), I do understand (as a software developer for a small start up here in the S.F. Bay Area) and hope that you and everyone at ArenaNet will keep up your morale as you all plunge towards the challenges ahead.

Most of us have played other glitchy games and have used buggy software (Windows being a fine example), so we can understand if things aren’t perfect and will take time to be worked on. However, the silver bullet to the issues at hand is ongoing clear and responsive communication. We want to know that you (and the rest of ArenaNet/NCSoft) care – and I’m sure you can see the various positive feedback among us players after you have responded to this issue.

Of course there will still be some negativity, but I’m sure that time will heal these wounds if we all continue to strive towards a more transparent and responsive community of players and developers – much like how thing were when this game was still in Beta. Just remember: successful software is not all about the product – it’s about your users and the trust they have in your company and you.

That said, I wish you luck and godspeed in the weeks to come. Also, thank you CC Eva – as it’s probably not a complete coincidence that we got Jon’s response on these issues after your response to my thread in the bug forum. =]

Sincerely,
MysticHLE

yuckfou.1254:

Think alot of you will enjoy these :

1) first one is bladetrail ……yes all he did was press number 4, i repeat…the #4 skill:) 30,908 damage. Might note i panned my camera around to see if i got hit with 3 balista, nope just the warrior carrying them around in his back pocket.

2) pic #2 Kill shot hitting back to back for 26,007 damage. still not sure how he got 2 kill shots off that fast..hmmm? maybe he was Charr and used warband support and his clones didnt have a delay? iono..

3) 3rd pic is theif came out of hide. I swear i didnt get a delay before this guy used Cloak. RIP poor little loot bags next to my little body…

come on i know you all have some of these!

Yeah, seriously.

ANet, enough is enough. You have absolutely no reason to be nerfing our core damage skills when they’re weak as hell already when other classes are insta-OHKOing us from 1200 range or behind our backs in stealth.

More comprehensive list here…

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Mesmer-List-of-bugged-abilities-and-traits/first

Also, I refuse to believe that Blurred Frenzy’s invincibility comes from Blur (something totally non-existent otherwise) and not Distortion – they share the same kitten icon from day one. So please don’t try to cover the bug on Masterful Reflection (Distortion grants Reflection) not working for Blurred Frenzy. I traited towards a double sword build almost solely for that reason.

Took this for fun~ xD

(Phantasms (got them lined up that way by targeting underwater crab) reappear as normal after Mass Invisibility)

Name: Hypnotic Illusion
Server: Jade Quarry

Thanks for fixing this quickly as well. Can you guys now please finally give some love to Mesmers?

Chuckles.3754:

Thanks for the response Jason. I was hoping it was a bug and not a permanent quick fix to the WvW jumping exploit instead of working on terrain physics. Invisible walls worked fine in beta, but we may need more here aside from just “nerf jumping”.

Jumping puzzles have been painful, and this is just in LA with no threat of repair bills.

Painful mostly because of the schizophrenic camera still.

Seems that this “bug” was “fixed” so that players couldn’t find other means to scale walls and whatnot to reach vistas and other locations that should otherwise be blocked off. Seems more like a quick hack fix instead of a thought-out and well-tested implementation.

Can we please get some response towards Mesmers? I’m quite frankly thinking of not playing this game well until past new years if this doesn’t get addressed at least verbally.

Your tournament or fixing possible game-breaking exploits?

OP: Can you please add the following?

Illusionary Leap still does not have the proper CD with both Blade Training (reduces sword skills’ CD by 20%) and Illusionist Celerity (reduces illusion summoning skills’ CD by 20%) traits. Without any traits, the skill should have 12 seconds CD. However, even with both traits, the CD for the skill is at 9.5 seconds – as if only one of them was applied.

Hello ArenaNet devs,

I’ve kept good faith for a long time now…but with every patch, it seems that the class I choose to play (first Guardian…now Mesmer) just gets worse and worse – and it’s getting extremely frustrating to keep playing the game like this. There are SLEWS of bugs related to all our traits and weapons (for all the classes) that make certain builds/weapons completely unviable and silly to choose, yet we keep seeing nerfs left and right in an attempt to balance everything as it is – and it just makes things worse.

I’m well aware that many things need balancing still, especially given your intent to make sPvP an e-sport…but let’s not forget that any regressions as a result of tweaks will inevitably kill the user experience on top of whatever bugs that are out there already.

For example, the latest Lost Shores patch nerfed Mesmers HEAVILY by 1. introducing a major regression that slashed Phantasm DPS by over half, and 2. made illusion summoning fail and go on complete cooldown if Mesmer is blinded. When those two are combined with a *long *standing bug (we’re talking about since Beta) with Signet of Illusions (grants 50% more HP to illusions) being applied to illusions only after a few seconds upon summoning them, the Mesmer class essentially becomes unplayable competitively – especially against thieves.

To top that off, I’m a double sword and staff user (because I like the flexibility of having abilities for both close range melee and long range) – and sword 3’s (Illusionary Leap) summoning time is still bugged and will not be affected by the trait “Blade Training” (reduces sword skill CD by 20%) when combined with the trait “Illusionists Celerity” (reduces CD on illusion summoning skills by 20%).

This results in the Mesmer having 2 close-ranged illusion summons at well over 9 seconds CD each – easily killed and useless – leaving the Mesmer wide open for attacks. I’m also sure I don’t need to beat the dead horse that melee attackers take a lot more damage than ranged attackers – thus it makes more sense for close-ranged illusions able to be summoned faster than when the Mesmer is using a Staff or Greatsword.

The Mesmer has the potential to be a VERY advanced class that takes a great amount of skills to master, but with the slew of bugs surrounding the class, it’s essentially a paper dummy unless Greatsword or Staff is used.

I’ve started a warrior now, and playing with her for 20 levels quickly made me realize how horribly weak and fragile my Mesmer is – at both duels and mobs in PvE and PvP/W3.

Personally, what will keep this game fun for me (after having beaten Zhaitan many times) are the various social and competitive aspects this game will bring – and that’s Dungeons/PvP/W3.

That all said, I really hope more effort and attention will be given to bugs surrounding our skills/traits instead of one-off holiday events. In particular, there are stickied threads all around the class-specific sub-forums detailing all the bugs related to all classes. I think the community would really appreciate more feedback and attention regarding them.

Sincerely,
HLE

VictoriousMonk.7150:

bears.4719:

This is my mesmer. Would love some leather pants.

Anyone know what top this is?

https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/18898/gw186x.jpg

Inquest Vestment – dungeon armor for Crucible of Eternity.

Sir Black.7423:

Jeffrey Vaughn.1793:

It does require you to be careful not to draw the attention of the knights patrolling the upper rim, and the patrolling abomination is pretty much a walking deathtrap if you don’t avoid it.

It seems a bit odd for the player to be given a whole group of NPCs, presumably to fight enemies, but then be expected to avoid several of the enemies. I certainly didn’t get the impression of a stealth or avoidance mission. Given that, I didn’t even think about stopping to watch enemy patrol behavior and see what could be avoided.

And if I recall right, that champion Abomination isn’t actually labeled as such. For me, I just turned a corner, saw a “Risen Abomination” and attacked. By the time I noticed the gold portrait frame, I was already in battle. And with all the AI-controled NPCs, I’m not sure retreat would even have been possible.

If the difficultly in that spot isn’t considered a problem, then perhaps it’s an issue that the player isn’t given any hints that they would want to be avoiding some of these fights. Unless of course the intent is for the player to figure it out themselves and possibly have to take a couple deaths in the process (depending on profession, skill, and luck).

But this is just a minor point overall, and there’s other quests probably in greater need of tweaking…

You are absolutely right. I always have show all Enemy names on, and none of the mobs was labeled with a champion. In fact, when I saw the Risen Abomination frenzy and 2 hit KO everyone (and my Mesmer) for 8k damage per hit and its HP not going down noticeably after 20 hits…I was like “oh hell no not this again”…then I remembered that the exact same thing happened to my Guardian.

To the dev: Yes, it’s a death trap (and possibly a bug). But your players don’t find that fun when you give them an entire army that can kill the whole map, only to be wiped out in 2 hits by one particular monster (that is not labeled properly) of which they are expected to avoid.

By the way, I had no problems with the knights. I was actually killing them for fun until the (Champion) Risen Abomination showed up.

Anakita Snakecharm.4360:

I soloed Ossuary too.

Here’s what worked for me, hopefully it’ll help you too: You don’t need to fight the majority of the Abominations and Veteran Knights. Just wait until they pass. They move slowly enough that you can get through their path before the next one comes. If you stop to fight, you end up taking too much aggro because it’s hard to kill them fast enough to be out of the way before more monsters come. If you just run by their patrol route after one passes, you’ll find things much easier.

I don’t think this mission is designed for you to fight everything – I think the trick is to time your moves into the next area to avoid combat when possible.

Except, of course, when the zero-IQ NPCs decide to fight off-side/wander around and aggro nearby mobs themselves to get the entire party killed. I failed this personal story step twice – one on my Mesmer and another on Guardian before I completed it without said Champion Risen Abomination brutally crushing me (literally) and the whole party in 2 hits in the span of 3 seconds.

Gave up after 30 min or so because I didn’t want to deal with the BS of other players covering my own character all the time and resulting in me not seeing from/to where I’m jumping. It’s a serious issue in big world events too.

I beat it solo on my level 80 Mesmer (scaled down) after dying 3 times. For a skill point, it does seem a bit hard…but probably wouldn’t go as far as calling this a bug…

I also think that replaying unlocked cinematics would be a nifty feature. Just to relive that moment once again!

See my post above. It’s not simply a zoom adjustment.

Gazareth.7230:

I made an album of 6 images: 3 with, and 3 without the change.

http://imgur.com/a/EpRCe

Flicking between them you can see that this change seems to just ‘zoom out’.

It’s not completely noticeable unless you quickly switch between these modes and, in fact, before seeing the images side-by-side I wasn’t quite sure that the change did anything at all!

It is irrefutable that the ‘zoomed out’ situation is objectively a better experience though.

Being able to see more is always a great thing, until you see too much. I believe with this change we are still not seeing too much, and I wonder: why was this value chosen? How far can we go before our characters start looking too small/things become warped? I’d like to go right up to this barrier (if we aren’t already there), and I hope I’m not the only one who does.

Much better!

I thoroughly tested this change by turning new FOV off, taking a screenshot, turning FOV on, taking screenshot (right after logging in without changing camera position/zoom).

Furthermore, since the new FOV zooms out more, our characters appeared smaller. So I tested varying the camera position/zoom to try to reproduce what was seen in the old FOV (to verify that the effect isn’t from just a max zoom increase and angle change). Good news is that no matter how I tried to alter the camera under the new FOV, I could not produce the same clipped scene as the old FOV.

Good work! =)

First pic: old FOV
Second pic: new FOV upon relogging in, no camera adjustments
Third pic: new FOV upon adjusting camera to match old FOV as much as possible

However, even with this, I should say that a big problem remains in that the camera is way too sensitive to environmental changes (e.g. turning while being next to a wall). In such cases, the camera shouldn’t just zoom in/out while statically being placed behind the character. Rather, it should react to the character’s turning motion and maintain an overall fixed distance relative to the character by moving itself around the environment.

A good example of this would be Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time. If you run up against a wall and turn, the camera stays still. And if you turn Link towards another direction while moving, the camera moves along the ground with two degrees of freedom while maintaining a good distance. Only when the player Z-targets, does the camera move and zoom behind Link.

A good example can be seen in this video:

Anyone wanna try this…?

He does sell them…just for currency that no one seems to know how to obtain…

I think it would add more depth and interest in dynamic events altogether if they were more day/night sensitive. During the day, escorts, full blown battles, and whatnot type of events can occur. During the night, maybe some protection events against certain threats (e.g. spiders, undeads, etc.), or even infiltration-type events would be more reasonable. Point is, dynamic events should be context-sensitive, and not just purely random (or at least it seems to be) and repeat after a certain amount of time…

Same here. There is a force field that prevents entrance into the labs, and I actually found what seems like a secret passage into it (over the doors and into the waters on the south side of the isles), but it would kick me outside the moment I try to enter.